intothewoods: help converting Provigil / modafinil to liquid for slow taper

[India]

On 7/30/2019 at 6:22 PM, India said:

Any news on this? Fireworks too!! Amazing to come up such a poly-cocktail..

@intothewoods

[intothewoods]

Hey I'm here, my warrioring friend @India, I just moved house and will post soon or message me. It's crazy-wrong that you're back in the strangling foxhole after having real, live life (windows!) just days ago. Hang on, we've got a ways to go yet and I need you, okay? 

 

Yes, big progress here on all fronts, including the project, and sending this poly drug fest down the drain. 

Need sleep, up three days and nights straight but got moved, love love love new place and life. Small glitch forgot to take my Prozac yesterday morning (I know, @Altostrata, I said this could never happen but packed the alarm clocks 😅), realized it last night so was quite the day today but... hugely happy in new home. Beautiful place to put pen to paper. Thinking of restarting roller skating (it's only been 40 years.. Lol) as there are loads of skate parks around. 

 

Don't give up, India. Remember our pact. The finish line is closer than it seems... 

 

Strength and Love to London. 💪💜

 

P. S. - - I think this was technically a post 😂. 

Edited August 3, 2019 by intothewoods
Added p.s.

[Altostrata]

Wow! This sounds like a new, good chapter! Keep us posted.

[Dejavu]

Great to hear the move went well, and you love the new place. Onward and upward!

[intothewoods]

On 8/3/2019 at 8:31 PM, Altostrata said:

Wow! This sounds like a new, good chapter! Keep us posted.

 

2 hours ago, Dejavu said:

Great to hear the move went well, and you love the new place. Onward and upward!

 

Thanks so much @Altostrata and @Dejavu. I absolutely feel a new life despite -- this is intriguing -- continuing to have 24/7 akathisia, morning cortisol explosions, and the "tightness" of WD.  Plus the move, long drive in the blazing heat and having CFS has drained me to say the least. All of this still occurs yet my spirit is free. I'm forever grateful to my Creator for providing a sanctuary with loving humans and a house without mold that's not in hurricane alley. All of this tells me that environment -- physical, emotional, mental -- is at least for me a profound player in WD. Without a baseline peace of mind, my odds of fully healing drop near, or to, zero. 

 

Gratitude list (with a tip of the hat to @Carmie, @puthappinessfirst, and others behind the SA Gratitude Movement):

 

1. Currently sitting on a shady deck overlooking a lake lined with stalls of markets and boutiques in riotous colors. Had the most amazing bagel-with-hummus-and-cucumber-slices, with a frothy cafe au lait. 

 

2. I live at the top of a hill. TOO COOL for a lifelong Florida flat-lands girl. 

 

3. Every window in my new bungalow looks into jungly foliage. It's like living in a tree house.

 

4. Free grocery delivery from several markets so I can rest and heal more. Also, over 50 restaurants (this isn't a large town but has three universities and a center of government) delivering everything from the freshest sushi poke bowls and GF pizza to Vietnamese, Ethiopian and fine French cuisine. 

 

5. My next-door neighbor owns a cleaning service and kindly sent one of her employees to attack my new home Wednesday so I could begin to unpack dishes, clothes, and anything that would touch a surface. (It was bad but I knew that going in)

 

6. Monday I'm planning a day at a historic plantation garden on 1700 acres with bike and hiking trails, a lake and a beach. Need some Vitamin D and a swim (not concerned about alligator warning sign  )

 

7. My mom and best friend, the most spiritual, strong-spirited, compassionate, intelligent woman I know. In her own Effexor WD, she made this move happen. I hope she can soon join me up here as there are beautiful places for her to live while she would have my doctor. Last night, we learned that sadly, she is in the end stages of a rare lung disease that's come out of remission. I'm not overtaken by this news as I would have been even two weeks ago. I will be strong to help her every moment with every ounce of strength. A great privilege. 

 

8. My friends who've been there in the depths of my ongoing anguish and lately, expanded the thresholds of my writing in ways I never dreamed. I owe much to @Carmie, @puthappinessfirst, @India, @powerback, @DeterminedAnna, @Kristine, @Onmyway , @BreathofAir and others who help from the sidelines. I love you guys.

 

 

Happy Weekend Everyone,

 

@intothewoods

 

 

 

 

[intothewoods]

On 7/30/2019 at 5:04 PM, Danalee13 said:

hi! Just wondering what modafinil withdrawal feels like?

 

Hi @Danalee13,

 

The short answer is: at higher doses ("therapeutic" doses of 100-200 mg once or twice a day), it feels like you have no energy to open your eyes or roll over in bed but you're also relieved not to be hyped up.  At lower doses, it feels like just any other psych med.

 

The longer answer is, after almost two decades of taking some amount of Modafinil at least 2X a week for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome -- it's never worth it. It's fake energy. It does not begin to approach the magnitude of cocaine or amphetamines (my experience in both is limited but unmistakable, having taken Adderall for CFS for a few days and felt like I was on the NASA launch pad) yet it's a toxin with unknown action. It makes lab rats go crazy like they're on heroin. And on a dark but important note, the French biochemist who invented it used cats as his subjects -- and subjected them to excruciating agony. 

 

At this point in my taper, too-large reductions of Modafinil are met the same way as reductions of Prozac or my other two meds (Elavil and Valium): Waves and waves of dizziness, nausea, a.k.a. regular WD. All I do is updose a tiny amount, like 1/2 mg of the liquid, and I'm ok. So I am going .... slow. I will update my signature in a month once I'm settled into my new place. I've been testing the waters the past two months but micro-reductions because of moving and other trauma. I've trialed super-tiny, simultaneous reductions of all my meds, using @Rhiannon's tapering model, and found it's quite okay for me. Knowing your body and staying in complete control of every aspect, from the type of water and syringes you use for water conversions to taking the meds at exactly the same time or day --- absolutely critical. 

 

That was way more information than you needed  . I do appreciate you asking as it helps me to define my WD in real time now that I can focus more on it while having huge hindsight. Almost two decades.

 

A side note: As I tooled around my new town today for errands, my eye was never met with hurricane devastation. My area was annihilated by Hurricane Michael almost a year ago and I've gotten so used to every moment seeing debris, chaos, hurt, struggle, no road signs, homes and toys in the river, whole beaches swept out to sea. I saw none of it today. I went through Hurricane Andrew in 1992, in the eye, and lived without power or running water for months. I moved six times in seven months as I lived in the Florida Keys then. It all came rushing back lately.  But it is gone and a great help. 

 

My research into moment-by-moment CNS stimuli and trauma expands.....

 

All best wishes with your WD journey, @Danalee13.

 

@intothewoods

[Danalee13]

Wow @intothewoods I am SO sorry you went through all of that and have moved that many times in such a short period of time. That’s very stressful.  My sincere condolences to your situation. 

 

Chronic fatigue is really hard. I’m so proud of you for tapering down and it must be really difficult. I didn’t even know Modafinil was around for that long. 

 

So in your decision to come off - you felt as though you didn’t need it anymore? Or you felt as though this may be causing damage? Etc etc. 

 

just wondering your thought process. Comparing it to my thought process. My thought process on coming off of lexapro was a bit of both. I had been too scared to come off because too scared of the withdrawals but I knew I didn’t need it and one day it just clicked and I said “I’m going to start!”  It has been a hard road for sure. Every day feels differently. And that’s probably the same for you. 

 

This forum is truly amazing to connect with people that understand. I’m so grateful that it exists. Wishing you all the luck on everything and your taper. 

 

We will get there! 

 

Xxxx

[intothewoods]

Just updated my signature to reflect that, after six months of holding on four meds (after years of having them changed and many others introduced/swapped out) -- I am officially simultaneously tapering the Amitriptyline and Provigil at 3-4 percent every two weeks. I'm also doing a partial crossover from capsule to liquid of the Prozac and will lower it 3-4 percent, at the same time as the other two, by October 1 and see how it goes. The Valium will be converted by year's end and lowered 1 -2 percent at first to test the waters. I don't trust benzos although they're less likely to cause dystonia, dementia and who knows what else. Yet it must flow out evenly like the others. 

 

Over time, I've learned that I have much (MUCH) less trauma to my being if I slowly taper my meds at the same time. Perhaps more importantly, there is no fear. If a simultaneous drop brings havoc, I just reinstate a bit. All at once. I can tweak one or more up or down. I've known these poisons for years and my body prefers to disengage with corresponding reduction rates. I learned the hard way. While my thread was idling, I've been experimenting. Withdrawal is so individualized and thus, I believe we should all approach it with the utmost care as to what our situation, drugs, age and circumstances are. 

 

I said I would update two weeks ago but I was in a car accident and totaled my car. I was not charged (cheers) as it was a 10-car pileup but I was the last in line in my new town. Honestly I don't need to be driving. My CNS is horribly whacked and the accident came as Hurricane Dorian was threatening and my symptoms went sky-high. So I'm ecstatic as a car-less freebird using Lyft and Uber. The bus is daunting in my state. I am bedbound 2-3 days then up 1 day. But I'm healing in my new place without mold, hurricanes, 24/7 stress and judgment. Stress is THE MOST toxic element of WD for me. 

 

My father is aghast that I would be car-less (he is 82, a 4th-generation Floridian who still has 150 head of cattle and like them, chooses to roam free) and just bought me a car. From his high school pal who has always been into cars. Let's hope I don't crash it.😄 Mainly because my dad is too cool to do this, in high school and now again. He does believe in ADWD. He knows and says kick it to the curb.

 

For this incredible moment of multi-med simultaneous tapering, I give special thanks to trail-blazer @Rhiannon.

  

For the incredible support, minute-by-minute, with my ADWD writing project, I give unbounded thanks to @Carmie, @puthappinessfirst, @India, @DeterminedAnna, @Onmyway, @BreathofAir, @powerback, @Stacy, @Danalee13 and many others. 

 

Will update next month. Happy Fall everyone!

 

 

 

 

 

[Rhiannon]

ITW, just a note: when I taper more than one med at the same time, I taper much more slowly than 3-4 percent in two weeks. I think I used to be more aggressive, but even then I tried to keep the total under 10% (if you add up the percents of each drug) every four to six weeks. Nowadays if I am going to drop all four meds at the same time, we're talking cuts of maybe 1 or at max 2 percent each. I might make 2 or  3 cuts at that rate a couple of weeks apart and then take a good long hold (like four weeks) to make sure everything is settling down.

 

It's actually more typical for me these days to alternate my meds or only cut two at one time and hold the other two. I kind of pair the lamotrigine and diazepam because of the way their actions work together. I might cut them both 1 percent and hold that dose for three weeks. The citalopram and alprazolam, well that's a longer story because I tried to taper the alprazolam to zero last year and failed and had to reinstate, and this year did the same with the citalopram, trying to please my healthcare provider and also honestly just not thinking those low doses could possibly be affecting me that much. (Wrong about that.)

 

Kicking myself today because I accidentally took one and a half days worth of my premeasured doses, so that's going to be fun for a while until that settles down. Sigh.

 

Please be very cautious and listen to your body. Multi med tapers are NOT faster than doing it one at a time. If anything, it's slower. It's so easy to get ahead of yourself and you can't assume that reinstatement will fix it, at least not quickly. I agree, it's so individualized; the primary downside to that is that nobody can really give advice, because there are just too many factors and there's not really a body of information to draw from. So if things go pear-shaped  nobody can really give you advice how to fix it. 

It's easy to say "listen to your body" but what I found was that as WD crept up on me, one of my symptoms was a sense of urgency and a tendency to push myself too hard, and the times when I needed to be listening to my body the most and holding, I would tend to push the taper further than I should. Please be cautious.

 

So sorry to hear about your car accident, that sounds terrifying! I'm glad you have loving family in your life.

[intothewoods]

@Rhiannon, we are surfing the same wave. I decided today, after re-reading everything in my million pages of files including all of your content, that I'd just do two at the time for now - - two with opposite effects, like the stimulating Provigil and sedating Elavil  - and do a Brassmonkey Slide to be safe. I'm acutely aware that things can snap out of hand in a second and, as you say, even before our bodies realize it. I'm not looking for speed but stability. I'm grateful for the 4% start, but not every two weeks. 

 

I greatly appreciate your careful, veteran-tapering thoughts. You really have said all those things on your thread - - they are burned in my brain 😏 -- so please never feel you are promoting or condoning a certain taper course. I knew when I made this decision, the right one for me, that I'm on my own. And I totally understand. 

A quote from this post: 

Rhiannon is a laboratory technician. She was very disciplined, an experienced taperer, she understood her drugs, and she was fully capable of making complex tapering decisions by herself. If you think you can do that, by all means, follow Rhiannon's lead, but do not expect us to be able to rescue you from bad decisions. 

 

So no worries there but I understand we all must be aware and for most people, tapering one at a time is best. You've never said otherwise except for your own journey, which as you pointed out, keeps changing with knowledge and experience. I just think we all have to open to what will best work for us. 

 

Bleck that you took an extra half-day's dose 😑. It really takes time to recover from the tiniest deviation once we're destabilized. I've missed doses, doubled them, switched them by mistake.... it's all too easy, even with alarms and diligent notes. 

 

Hoping you sail through rather than ride any rapids - - and special thanks for posting this during your glitch (apologies for sappy metaphors but we have to keep things fun 😂). 

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by intothewoods
Spelling

[intothewoods]

1 hour ago, intothewoods said:

that I'd just do two at the time for now - - two with opposite effects, like the stimulating Provigil and sedating Elavil  - and do a Brassmonkey Slide to be safe

 

Need to clarify this, @Rhiannon, as I do not intend to do a classic Brassmonkey Slide of 2.5 % each week for four weeks then hold two weeks. That's way too fast with two meds, at this point at least, and my plan is to try a 1- 2 percent drop and hold 2-3 weeks. As you said, this is the long way home, not the fastest. I just can't drop one without an offset of another.... You understand.

 

The different meds change in how they affect us now and as we drop. With polydrug tapering, it's an ongoing accommodation of how things relate minute by minute. I am grateful to have huge support from friends and colleagues who've gotten off up to eight meds. There's no one body of reference /knowledge out there, as you pointed out, but collectively it's growing like mad. I aim to get off the fringes and help push this global crisis toward the public. The Holocaust was well hidden for years but ultimately it came out. Then there's smoking and opioids. It goes on.

 

Will stay low and slow. Thanks again.... 

[intothewoods]

Making a note today that I updated my signature to reflect post of yesterday.  Was at the oncology center all day and only had my phone. New doctor was appallingly bad and now I see she has three lawsuits filed against her in Atlanta, where she just moved from. Waited six hours for a script but at least walked around most of the time. I am getting stronger physically and (let's hope....hee hee) mentally. 

 

 

[ShiningLight]

Into,

 

Wow, I just read your thread. I agree, you are one strong woman! Withdrawal peppered with a natural disaster or two now and then for good measure...that would be quite the cacophony! 😩

 

Your new home sounds fantastic! I'm so glad. Place means so much, especially when ill and unable to get out a lot. I would love to plot my escape from my living situation as I live next to some real inconsiderate weirdos (that is the watered down version). I have a few ideas where I'd like to move--out of the area to a cooler climate, but I'm swimming upstream just to maintain what I've got right now, so I'm not sure how I'm going to accomplish a move that necessitates a new job at the same time. 😕 Yet I can't imagine staying here until I finish my first taper either... that's a long way off.

 

Good luck on your new taper strategy! What kind of neuro problem is elavil causing for you?

 

How is your mother doing with her lung illness?

[Erell]

Hi intothewoods!

 

I was incredibly surprised by your Nice words on Shininglights thread ! 

I Will read your journey tomorrow as it is evening here  but already pleased To meet you!

 

Have a sweet day !!!

[India]

@intothewoods yet to read up on your progress. I lost the motivation to write / navigate website very much linked to ongoing fatigue and cognitive blocks.

Not much to report here. Progress is painfully slow but I keep on somehow. 

Nature gets me through.

 

[intothewoods]

6 hours ago, Erell said:

Will read your journey tomorrow as it is evening here  but already pleased To meet you!

 

Have a sweet day !

 

Enchante, @Erell. I'm reading your journey as well and re-living moments in my favorite place where you live, wishing I could speak to you in your native tongue (at various points in my life, I spoke French half-well  ). A few weeks ago, I sent a picture to another member of me with baguette et fromage in a cove of St. Paul de Vence. Do you know this area? I loved Provence especially, and Bonnieux. 

 

Looking forward to getting to know you as we journey to better life times again!

 

 

[intothewoods]

1 hour ago, India said:

I lost the motivation to write / navigate website very much linked to ongoing fatigue and cognitive blocks.

Not much to report here. Progress is painfully slow but I keep on somehow. 

Nature gets me through.

 

I've been thinking of you too, @India, and understand the blocks and slowness. You did get windows not long ago, and me too. You keep going because you're tougher than these poisons. We will beat them. I have much to update you about especially with my work. Email me when you feel like it but until then, keep hanging on. I told someone the other day that you were model-beautiful, inside and out, and you are.    ~ Catherine 💙

[intothewoods]

19 hours ago, ShiningLight said:

Wow, I just read your thread. I agree, you are one strong woman! Withdrawal peppered with a natural disaster or two now and then for good measure...that would be quite the cacophony! 😩

 

Your friends must laugh hysterically a lot. You have a sense of humor that is just too hilarious, with the writing wit to boot ("cacophony" -- 🤣🤣). 

 

Thank you so much for the big and kind words and for good wishes for my mom and doc visit. Normally it wouldn't be such an event but now that I've moved, it's 3 hours RT and I have to take a bus provided by the insurance and you know that will be slow 😳). Soon I will have a car again and then we'll motor on 😎.

 

I've had some quirks with my last drop and will discuss with my doc tomorrow. I'm not even sure if they're related to the drop as they came 10 days after I made the cuts, lasted six days, and now I feel stalled inside the Star Trek beaming transporter. Some is that my move caught up with me, I crashed,and the CFS is crushing. Some could be other things which I will post about in the next few days. So much of this tapering business is trial and error. Well, a lot of error but we're looking to minimize that 😂.

 

Keep on shining, @ShiningLight! 

[India]

On 10/3/2019 at 1:32 AM, intothewoods said:

 

I've been thinking of you too, @India, and understand the blocks and slowness. You did get windows not long ago, and me too. You keep going because you're tougher than these poisons. We will beat them. I have much to update you about especially with my work. Email me when you feel like it but until then, keep hanging on. I told someone the other day that you were model-beautiful, inside and out, and you are.    ~ Catherine 💙

Thank you for your beautiful words and also you have a beautiful spirit. I hope your article comes together as you have such capacity and our stories need to told. The more they are told, the greater the weight and velocity 

. Back in a wave today with a total sticky head as @Carmie describes. A brain of treacle. Last night I dreamt I had a very dark dream about this- I felt the dark recesses of my mind come to fore- I was unable to think at all; everything I ‘thought’ was blocked by a wall. I felt locked in, the damage permanent..I still have to meditate on this dream and it’s message of foreboding.

 

I met someone , though he was journeying on to another life- he helped me immensely. The help I’ve so needed. I think with him gone- i  am fatigued completely all the basic tasks he completed for me ( like cooking, shopping). Also, his affection soothed the horrors of this. He supported me psychologically and physically. We went walking in nature, while i was able to use him to lean on, literally.

 

I am now back on my own again, my immediate family are supportive but in many instances rebound on understanding the severity of my injury. My therapist too, seems to go from seemingly understanding to suggesting I do a course or start charity work ( how? With the severity of my symptoms).

 

Apologies, for updating you on your thread. My thought composition seems to only work in one direction . 

 

I hope there will be identification. 

I aim to read your posts and catch up on your news. 

 

Always read your signature and think how brave to be tapering multiple drugs. 

 

You are right about the windows. Suffering from nausea now so must sign off. 

 

I’ll email you as soon as possible.

 

Keep warrioring

 

[intothewoods]

22 hours ago, India said:

Thank you for your beautiful words and also you have a beautiful spirit.

 

This makes my day, @India -- thank you. 

 

22 hours ago, India said:

I met someone , though he was journeying on to another life- he helped me immensely. The help I’ve so needed. I think with him gone- i  am fatigued completely all the basic tasks he completed for me ( like cooking, shopping). Also, his affection soothed the horrors of this. He supported me psychologically and physically. We went walking in nature, while i was able to use him to lean on, literally.

 

 

Wow. I'm thrilled you had a helper this special even if for a journey stop. I felt the relationship deeply in your words and -- if you can -- make notes about how he helped with WD and transformed the experience. We are working on two books actually, one is a collection of essays. I will message you more in detail. 

22 hours ago, India said:

Apologies, for updating you on your thread. My thought composition seems to only work in one direction . 

 

I hope there will be identification. 

I aim to read your posts and catch up on your news. 

 

Always read your signature and think how brave to be tapering multiple drugs. 

 

You are right about the windows. Suffering from nausea now so must sign off. 

 

No apologies -- my thread is your thread. Yes there is serious identification and you help tons by staying in this battle. Your views are still very unique although you don't see it. The drugs, in their myriad sundry facets, try to convince us we've forever lost our art emotion. It's a con like all the rest. 

 

Please don't push yourself to read my thread or do anything that stymies your healing. Remember our pact at the beginning, that there would never be any pressure? So, no pressure. 

 

Peace & Joy, until next time. 💙 

[intothewoods]

Just realized I never copied and pasted my post to @Rhiannon last month about one of my works underway. So doing this for my records.....

 

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Posted September 11

  On 9/9/2019 at 2:25 PM, Rhiannon said:

Tell me more about the research you are doing...?

 

My book has two goals: 

 

1) Convince the average person that he wants  to be aware of this atrocious global seduction of humanity into drug addiction. Bring it out of the closet, track its ominous birth and infiltration of society, profile the players then and now. Not just Pharma but doctors, psychologists, pharmacists, insurance companies, controlling family members and friends. 

The plot unfolds rapid-fire in a time of innocence, before we all had internet and cellphones. Your and my generation. Often prescribed by GPs with no warning and no way to get us off. It morphs quickly to children and the elderly, to anyone with a cluster headache or PMS. 

Obviously this writes itself (much like the murder book I researched for years but never published because ....I was prescribed Prozac to "cope" and it caused severe CFS). Everyone who worked on the DSM has Pharma ties. The infamous Prozac "serotonin re-uptake" memo hatched by Eli Lily. The singular, diabolical nature of these drugs in that they were designed to cause mental illness upon discontinuation leading to the rabbit warren we know of further diagnoses, social alienation, indeed a dehumanizing that eclipses meth or heroin because the drugs are more addicting and sinister than any street drug.  

The book's ascension and tone is like "Into Thin Air" and "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil." In part because I want the mainstream to feel they have to read this book. It can't matter if they've been affected by the drugs; it matters that they will learn the truth.

 

2) Help people out of this quagmire in a dignified, liberating way. Outline the options for tapering, coping, working with doctors and pharmacists. All the options we know and there are many plus the zillion factors: stress, diet, stimuli positive or negative, sleep, thoughts. Arm them with a way out while profiling those who made it and those who didn't  (I've interviewed many with profound stories, and I believe ADWD has some mechanism where it pushes the human spirit to higher, stronger places and this, of course, is a brilliant form of justice in the end). 

Profile the online WD communities and their own rise to the scene in endless forms, with a warning of the harm waiting here if you're not careful. In a tragic twist, some WD sites develop the same dis-empowering tactics of psychiatry by humiliating, belittling and manipulating people n WD who are some of the most vulnerable and desperate on the planet. (Perhaps that's another story titled "Harm Under Healing's Clothes"?) Humans are humans and they can be corrupted by money,  power, and control over others no matter what side of the fence they're on.

I can't stress how pivotal you've been in this journey because you pioneered not only a method of water conversions but your approach to various factors and players in WD is sound and balanced. You're a realist, you've been at rock bottom but it's made you more dimensional. I had wondered if you kept your core humility and kind ways of rallying others to success. You have. 

While I always strive to encourage others, I'm not into hollow flattery or exaggeration. Example: last year, my pharmacist read your posts about water conversions, solubility or not; precision vs. accuracy; simultaneous tapering vs one at a time. I'd been preparing him to help me convert my Elavil to a water solution (he resisted at first but came around and is an amazing person) and he read your findings, checked them against his pharmacological guides (even some of his books from college). He said you nailed it. To this day, he and my doctor  will mention Rhiannon's methods. 

Of course we know there are countless amazing minds and hearts on SA and I can't describe the joy I have with those I've come to know and who are helping expose this nightmare. And helping each other. 

Ok, I'm going to copy some of this onto my thread. Apologies for extended- release answer to your question. I needed to document it and, as you can see, you're quite intrinsic to the plot.😊.

[Giulietta]

Hello @intothewoodsand @India

 

Just popping by to say hello. I skimmed your last two posts and much admiration for your goals to develop awareness, educate and drive change - if not for everyone - at least some.

 

Drugs in America - whether opioids (90% of which start off with a prescription), prescribed ADs, benzos, and other psych meds (which may have origins for other illnesses) including psychotropics, may affect 1/5 to 1/4 of the population. This is all deliberate and could easily be stopped or prevented.

 

The Chinese dealt with drug abuse for decades in the opium wars (opium was pushed on them by the British) even though this may be outside the scope of your books. Just a way in which individuals are impacted and societies are affected as a whole.

 

I have looked at some of your posts @India and you are indeed a brave soul.

 

Good day to you both,

 

Giuilietta

 

[Erell]

@intothewoods : your book project strongly resonate in me Today: i've been dreaming of Being able one day To write a book in French To compil infos and let everybody know in France about this sanitary scandal...;)

 

One battle at a time  : first, when i'll get better, I'd  like To translate in French the precious infos we have on this board.

This board really is important  : peerpeersupport of course, but it also compiles a precious knowledge that we can't find for now in French.

 

I wish you good Luck in your work

 

[intothewoods]

2 hours ago, Guilietta said:

The Chinese dealt with drug abuse for decades in the opium wars (opium was pushed on them by the British) even though this may be outside the scope of your books. Just a way in which individuals are impacted and societies are affected as a whole.

 

Excellent @Guilietta. I also meant to say a big thank you for the Nazi Regime ties to AD. What an eyeopener. You're great at digging historical and societal/statistical gems out and I APPRECIATE IT so much. You are what one of my friends who's a crime reporter for The Miami Herald would call a "super sleuth." 😎

 

2 hours ago, Erell said:

One battle at a time  : first, when i'll get better, I'd  like To translate in French the precious infos we have on this board.

This board really is important  : peerpeersupport of course, but it also compiles a precious knowledge that we can't find for now in French.

 

 

You are so right @Erell -- this site is so very valuable on many levels, including there's nothing else like its precious knowledge as you say. I think all your translation and writing goals are terrific and while we do take one battle at the time, maybe just make a few notes each day and write partial grafs. Before you know it, things come together. Like ADWD, slow and steady with insane patience wins the race. (had to get some insanity in there so we can laugh as I loved your sanity allusion 🤣).

 

Thank you both for happy thread times for me. I am blessed ❤️.

 

 

 

[Giulietta]

2 hours ago, Guilietta said:

This is all deliberate and could easily be stopped or prevented.

 

I cannot edit my text so hopefully so need to do a correction.

 

I misspoke. All of this is not deliberate.  Part of this I believe is sheer ignorance and complacency.  Some people may mean well - but they also 'don't know what they don't know.' They assume they know everything so prescribe without knowing the consequences. 

 

There 'was' also an opioid (morphine) epidemic per se in the 19th century in the U.S. 

 

Where did 'Coke' gets it name from? Cocaine was once an ingredient in one of America's best loved soft drinks.

[intothewoods]

41 minutes ago, Guilietta said:

All of this is not deliberate.  Part of this I believe is sheer ignorance and complacency.  Some people may mean well - but they also 'don't know what they don't know.' They assume they know everything so prescribe without knowing the consequences

 

No worries, Guilietta, I knew what you meant. Perhaps deliberate ignorance in some cases but that causes half of humanity's problems to start with perhaps. No we can't read hearts or assume motives without clear evidence. Thankfully, establishing motive is not a huge issue for me (that's already been done to some degree in fringe media) but rather, to expose the shocking realities and help those already affected - - and those not yet walking the plank. 

 

Take Care of yourself as you're a gem. ❤️

 

[India]

In terms of your article ... have you considered linking up many of the celebrities that deaths have involved antidepressants/benzos? In addition to the many other human faces of this issue. I know correlation is not causation but still correlation may well be causation.

So far:

Chris Cornell ( of Sound garden) (Benzos)

Micheal Hutchence (INXS) (Prozac)

Stevie Nicks of Fleetwood Mac (Benzos)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/3667803/Stevie-Nicks-a-survivors-story.html

Robin Williams

Kate Barry (photographer) (antidepressants)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/12/jane-birkin-daughter-kate-barry-dies-fall-paris-flat

Daisy Boyd: 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/21/socialite-daisy-boyd-had-cocaine-smuggled-psychiatric-hospital/amp/

 

Heath Ledger (Z-drugs)

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/chris-cornell-heath-ledger-and-robin-williams-are-their-deaths-a-warning-of-the-risks-of-prescription-psychotropic-drugs-300471000.html

 

Will Self ( writer) said he experienced suicidal impulses when prescribed drug.

SEE his radio docu

 

John Jones QC (Queen’s Council)

https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/qc-who-worked-on-julian-assange-case-jumped-in-front-of-west-hampstead-train-after-being-allowed-out-of-private-hospital-1-4664571

[India]

On 10/5/2019 at 3:43 PM, intothewoods said:

Of course we know there are countless amazing minds and hearts on SA and I can't describe the joy I have with those I've come to know and who are helping expose this nightmare. And helping each other. 

I shed a tear at this. 

[Giulietta]

On 10/5/2019 at 5:10 PM, intothewoods said:

Thankfully, establishing motive is not a huge issue for me (that's already been done to some degree in fringe media) but rather, to expose the shocking realities and help those already affected - - and those not yet walking the plank. 

 

I think in part exposing the shocking realities, as you put well, may intersect with motives - even though the focus of your book will be on helping others navigate this. How could anyone not ask why companies could continue to produce and develop these drugs - and MDs prescribe them, etc.

 

 

[India]

11 hours ago, Guilietta said:

How could anyone not ask why companies could continue to produce and develop these drugs - and MDs prescribe them, etc.

 

 

And how the power structures of society allow for this to be possible. Society is a big machine now and it’s systems that become bigger than the persons. 

But systems can be overcome from the bottom up and individual acts to voice truths that contradict aggressively held paradigms do sometimes win out. The problem from where I am standing is neoliberalism, globalisation and deregulation. 

Thinking of Foucault , “Madness and Civilisation”

[Giulietta]

6 hours ago, India said:

And how the power structures of society allow for this to be possible. Society is a big machine now and it’s systems that become bigger than the persons. 

 

I was unaware of the book, 'Madness and Civilization.' If I understand - From wikipedia: 'For Foucault the modern experience began at the end of the eighteenth century with the creation of places devoted solely to the confinement of the mad under the supervision (i.e. control) of medical doctors, and these new institutions were the product of a blending of two motives: the new goal of curing the mad away from their family (i.e. society) who could not afford the necessary care at home, and the old purpose of confining undesirables for the protection of society.' This more shapes  thought, cultural and social norms (thus control).

 

This appears that the government (they ran the institutions?) or other authoritarian establishment took custody of these indnividuals and deprived individuals of self-determination. One might surmise that the  premise of control over individuals is what globalization is about. It does in fact  put more control in the hands of even fewer organizations or individuals. 

 

Did I get off the beaten path? 🤔 Does this make sense to you?

[India]

6 hours ago, India said:

And how the power structures of society allow for this to be possible. Society is a big machine now and it’s systems that become bigger than the persons. 

But systems can be overcome from the bottom up and individual acts to voice truths that contradict aggressively held paradigms do sometimes win out. The problem from where I am standing is neoliberalism, globalisation and deregulation. 

Thinking of Foucault , “Madness and Civilisation”

Ah,  It was meant to be edited over with “psychiatric power” https://www.amherst.edu/system/files/media/0824/anth42s10foucault39.pdf

 

Both relevant though.

[India]

7 minutes ago, Guilietta said:

 

I was unaware of the book, 'Madness and Civilization.' If I understand - From wikipedia: 'For Foucault the modern experience began at the end of the eighteenth century with the creation of places devoted solely to the confinement of the mad under the supervision (i.e. control) of medical doctors, and these new institutions were the product of a blending of two motives: the new goal of curing the mad away from their family (i.e. society) who could not afford the necessary care at home, and the old purpose of confining undesirables for the protection of society.' This more shapes  thought, cultural and social norms (thus control).

 

This appears that the government (they ran the institutions?) or other authoritarian establishment took custody of these indnividuals and deprived individuals of self-determination. One might surmise that the  premise of control over individuals is what globalization is about. It does in fact  put more control in the hands of even fewer organizations or individuals. 

 

Did I get off the beaten path? 🤔 Does this make sense to you?

Makes complete sense.. particularly like: ‘One might surmise that the  premise of control over individuals is what globalization is about. It does in fact  put more control in the hands of even fewer organizations or individuals.’

[Giulietta]

Hello Catherine,

 

How are you doing now? Sending positive thoughts that you are in a window.

 

Hugs,

 

Giuilietta

🤗

[Rhiannon]

Hello @intothewoods, thinking of you today. I hope you're still feeling contented and happy in your little bungalow on the hill. How's it going? 

 

Hugs to you

Rhiannon

[Giulietta]

1 hour ago, Rhiannon said:

contented and happy in your little bungalow on the hill.

 

@intothewoods

 

It sounds like you are in a corner or paradise and picking away at your book.