ResilienceandHope: finished benzos ... now on to ADs

[ResilienceandHope]

Hello all,

I finished my 4 month benzo taper in April 2019 after 1 year of taking it as prescribed . I had developed interdose withdrawal and tolerance to benzos and didn't know what it was at the time. After finally figuring out what was going on, I figured out how to taper. I was also floxed with Cipro while in tolerance from benzos. It was absolute hell, and I can't believe it did it.  Determined to be off of all medications, I started to taper off of Prozac and Mirtazapine.  I went too fast initially, and now I'm really suffering.  I'm going to hold until I stabilize.  I would appreciate any advice from anyone else who has been polydrugged.  I know I need to go slow- 10% a month.  Do I finish the Prozac taper first and then work on the Mirtz?  Thanks in advance for your help!!

  

[Gridley]

Hello, ResilienceandHope, and welcome to SA.

What are your current symptoms?

 

We recommend tapering by no more than 10% of current dose every four weeks, and it sounds as if your taper of the benzo was a good bit faster. 

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Because of all the changes--the benzo taper, the floxing, your beginning to taper both the Prozac and Mirtazapine--it's difficult to tell what is causing your symptoms, but in any event a hold is a good idea.  You may need to hold for several months.    

 

Please add a drug signature, which should include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can.  Please give us the dates and rate of your benzo, Prozac and Mirt tapers.

• Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
• This is a direct link to your signature:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

I gather from your post that you've started tapering the Mirt and the Prozac.  Is that correct?  Please include this taper information in your signature.

 

We recommend tapering only one drug at a time.  This is because if problems develop and you're tapering more than one drug, it would be impossible to pinpoint the cause.  We recommend tapering the more activating drug (stimulating) drug first, leaving the more sedating drug as a buffer to be tapered later.  Can you tell whether the Prozac or the Mirt is more stimulating?

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

For future reference, here's information on tapering Prozac and Mirtazapine

Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine)
 
Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

Here is some information on withdrawal.  

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introductory topic, the place where you can post updates, ask questions and communicate with other members.  I'm glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ResilienceandHope]

Thanks for the info Gridley.  Here are the answers to your questions:

Symptoms:

Nightmares

Hand numbness

Tinnitus

Guilt/Shame/Looping thoughts of regret

Depression

Suicidal ideation

Nausea

Feeling of a tight band around head

Face numbness

 

I think the Prozac is more activating, so I'll start to taper that again once I stabilize.  I'm thinking I need to hold for a few months to see if I feel any better. I am just so ready to be finished with this mess and get on with my life.  

Thanks for all of the help and advice!!

 

 

[ResilienceandHope]

Hello,

 

I have successfully tapered off Valium, Prozac, and Remeron.  I was doing relatively well until my seasonal allergies hit last week.  I didn't even think about it, and took Allegra, as I have done for 20 years.  Well, I had a paradoxical reaction and feel like I'm in the middle of withdrawal all over again.  I have panic, racing heart, extreme anxiety, sound sensitivity, tight band around my head.  I also have a burning sensation in my ear canals and ear fullness.  

 

Any suggestions for what to do?  I can't deal with this again when I thought I was healing.  

[ResilienceandHope]

I'm at my wit's end!  I have tapered off Valium, Prozac, and Remeron.  I was doing pretty good, and then I started taking my Allegra for seasonal allergies.  I woke up last Monday night feeling very panicky.  Well, things keep getting worse.  My ears are burning, face is numb, and I am not sleeping and I am visibly shaking.  I'm also ruminating on noise and it is causing me extreme distress.  

 

I was told the allegra can cause a paradoxical reaction when your receptors are still damaged.  I was doing so well, and now I'm freaking out.  My question is should I reinstate a small dose of remeron?  I finished that taper on Jan. 15th.  I am out of control with anxiety right now.  I went to the hospital because I was shaking so bad, and they just wanted to give me Ativan.....NOT.

 

Any advice is greatly appreciated.  I just don't know what to do.  

[Altostrata]

Hello, Resilience.

 

It's possible you had an adverse reaction to Allegra because your nervous system has been sensitized from all the drug changes over the last 2 years.

 

This should settle down in the usual way -- slowly and gradually. If you're hypersensitive to noise, you should find a way to reduce that stimulus and anything else that you find upsetting.

 

Believe it or not, many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful in the stabilization process, see
https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

How's your sleep?

[ResilienceandHope]

Sleep is non existent. 

[Altostrata]

What was your sleep pattern before this round of Allegra?

[ResilienceandHope]

A little off since I finished my Mirtz taper, but was getting at least 6 hours nightly. 

[Altostrata]

Did you try any of these techniques

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

[ResilienceandHope]

7 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Did you try any of these techniques

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

[ResilienceandHope]

Altostrata,

Zero sleep again. Tried meditations, melatonin, and everything else I could think of. Still wondering about reinstating mirtz at a small dose. I read you posted about reinstating. 
 

thanks

[Altostrata]

Since May 2019, how did you finally go off Prozac and mirtazapine? When was the last time you took either drug?

 

Please update your signature.

[ResilienceandHope]

Sorry Altostrata, I can't figure out how to update my signature line.  The answer is that I finished my Prozac taper on November 5, 2019 and my Remeron taper on January 15, 2020.

 

Thanks!

[Shebon]

Hi Resilience:

What doses of Prozac and Remeron did you jump off?  I am slowly tapering off low-dose Remeron and want to go as low as I can go before I stop.  I think a lot of healing takes place with the taper down so you might need more time for healing?.  I know the zero nites are horrendous but you will sleep again...

 

Be well,

Shebon

 

[ResilienceandHope]

Hi Shebon,

I can’t remember the exact doses, but I think it was .25 mg for Remeron and .5 mg for Prozac. I used a scale and weighed my doses and I was down to crumbs at the end. 
 

Good luck. After talking to other benzo survivors, I am definitely in a benzo wave. Not only was I up all night, but my body shook uncontrollably any time I laid down or sat still. Also had burning in my ears, obsessive thoughts, and ideation. Triggerd by stress of COVID and laying off 25 employees, taking an antihistamine, and my grandmothers passing. Definitely wasn’t watching my self care enough. Lesson learned. Did you taper a benzo too or just AD?

[ResilienceandHope]

On 4/8/2020 at 11:52 AM, Altostrata said:

Since May 2019, how did you finally go off Prozac and mirtazapine? When was the last time you took either drug?

 

Please update your signature.

Alto,

I figured out how to update my signature line.  I am not sure what to do at this point.  I was having minor symptoms until I took the allergy med.  Obviously there was some stress too with the current world situation.  I literally went from hiking and biking one weekend to completely non-functional within 4 days.  Is it possible for a wave to hit that quickly? Especially after it's been over 3 months since I've taken an AD and a year for the benzo.  What is happening? I can't take this.

[brassmonkey]

Being around the three month mark is very telling.  That is the point where most people get hit by severe WD symptoms after having done a lot of changes and a too fast taper.  It's all catching up with you. Alto has given you a lot of information on coping strategies that will be quite helpful, but they take practice an regular use to be effective.  If your symptoms are to be point of being unbearable and debilitating, as in you can't get out of bed, wash or eat, then a small reinstatement of the prozac might take the edge off while you wait it out. For reinstatements it is best to start vary small, say 1mgai, and see what happens for several weeks. Keep in mind that your body is in a very sensitive state and any changes up or down could cause a very strong reaction.

[ResilienceandHope]

Thanks for the reply!  I’m already in my third week of severe symptoms, so I think I’ll try to just stick it out since I’m drug free. If I’m in week three and still sorta functioning, do you anticipate symptoms getting worse?

[ResilienceandHope]

So Brass, I read your post on tapering faster than 10%.  I really feel like I'm completely screwed and have no hope left.  You said it can be years once this crash has happened.  And if I reinstate the Prozac, do I just hold for a LONG time and then taper that later?  

[ResilienceandHope]

Brass, what does it mean when you say 1 mgai?  What does the ai stand for?

[brassmonkey]

There are two measurements involved with a dose, and both are measured in milligrams.  There is the strength of a dose, which is listed on the packaging, and there is the physical weight of the dose as measured on scales.  The physical weight will be a lot higher because the manufacturers add fillers to the tablets to make then large enough to be easy to make and handle.  To tell the two apart we refer to the strength as mgai, Milligrams Active Ingredient and the physical weight of the dose as mgpw, Milligrams Pill Weight.

 

You are not completely screwed, but things are probably going to be unpleasant for a long time.  We do have quite a number of members who have fast tapered or CTed and are doing pretty well while they recover. We also have plenty of success stories too, one of our most recent is coldturkmama.

 

What you are currently feeling sounds to be pretty normal WD for the changes you made and speed of your tapers. If you were to crash you would be feeling a lot worse.  If you reinstate a small amount of prozac you wold then hold on that dose for many months as your body stabilizes and once stable you would start a slow careful taper.  the reinstatement won't "cure" anything but rather may help take the edge off of things and make them more bearable. While stabilizing there frequently are several periods of windows and waves, feeling much better and feeling much worse.  This is pretty standard,  and although very frustrating and disheartening they are positive signs of healing.  Once your symptoms have leveled out a constant state, not disappeared but pretty much the same from day to day, then we can start thinking about doing a taper of the prozac.  Right now you body is screaming for stability so it can sort things out and move forward.

 

I don't like to give specific time frames for recovering from a fast taper/CT because every person is different in their reaction to the drugs and their personal situation.  We have had people fully recover in eighteen months while others have taken many years. In general the initial stabilization period takes six to twelve months, then we move on from there.

[ResilienceandHope]

Thanks for the info.  So is there still the possibility I will completely crash, or will I just continue through w/d?  I don''t want to risk messing with my CNS any more if this is a bad as it's going to get.  This is all so confusing....

[ResilienceandHope]

Quote

Any suggestions 

Any suggestions for sleep as it's non-existent right now

[Shebon]

Hi Resilience:  I crossed over to valium too for a daily dose of .5 mg. Ativan and 10 mg. Ambien.  I started at 3.75 mg. valium which seemed to cover the withdrawal symptoms fine.  I had interdosing withdrawals from 3x/week 1 mg. Ativan for about 2 years before my GP doc figured it out for me.  I tapered off 3.75 mg. valium in less than 5 months so that was a fast taper too.  

 

It is so true that this stuff catches up with you....I thought I was over the benzo withdrawals after the 3rd month, but then slammed at around the 4-5th months.  What seemed to help me then with sleep and right now is 1/2 tablet Unisom.  Some nites I take it and other nites I don't need it.  But it will not cause dependence.  I also take magnesium and calcium with dinner.  

 

Sleep will come again...I hope it will not be long for your CNS to stabilize....you have come such a long way...

Best regards,

Shebon

[ResilienceandHope]

If I have been taking 600 mg Gabapentin 3 times daily for 2 weeks, do I have to taper?

[ChessieCat]

I've moved your post to your Introduction topic which is the best place to ask questions about your own situation because it keeps all your information in one place.

 

I've asked the other mods for their assistance.

 

Edited June 3, 2020 by ChessieCat

[Altostrata]

16 hours ago, ResilienceandHope said:

If I have been taking 600 mg Gabapentin 3 times daily for 2 weeks, do I have to taper?

 

Hello, R&H. What effect has the gabapentin had on you? What was your doctor's advice about going off?

[ResilienceandHope]

Alto, 

The Gabapentin has absolutely no effect on my. I was suicidal and put in a facility for 30 days where prozac and Remeron were reinstated. And seroquel and Gabapentin were added. Obviously I’m still having w/d symptoms and have absolutely no idea what to do. But the Gabapentin doesn’t work and I’ve only taken it 2 weeks, so I’d like to stop it. 
 

[Altostrata]

Are you taking Prozac, Remeron, and Seroquel now as well? Please update your signature.

 

Most likely, you can go off the gabapentin quickly. I would cut by 25% every 4 days. Stop if you get withdrawal symptoms.

 

If you go to the hospital as suicidal, it's almost guaranteed you will come out on a drug cocktail.

[ResilienceandHope]

So now that I've reinstated it is just a waiting game for my CNS to stabilize?  

[Altostrata]

Reinstated what? What are you taking now?

[ResilienceandHope]

I updated my signature line.  I reinstated Prozac 80 mg, Remeron 7.5 mg and they added Seroquel 150 mg. I am non-functioning and don't know what to do.  😩

[Altostrata]

In my amateur opinion, that is an extremely excessive amount of Prozac. At the very most, I might try 5mg Prozac.

 

Don't understand why you're taking Seroquel at all.

 

You started out talking about gabapentin, what happened to that? When and why was that added to your cocktail?

 

What is going on? You tapered too fast in 2019, there's no way you could have gone off 40mg Prozac and 27mg mirtazapine between May 2019 and January 2020 with a gradual taper. Then you go to the hospital and get put on a drug cocktail? Why haven't you told your doctors you're having an adverse reaction?

[ResilienceandHope]

Alto:

I updated my signature line.  I was so scared after my suicide attempt that I agreed to the drug cocktail.  Also, my family doesn't believe that this was caused by a reaction to tapering too quickly.  So, I'm left with terrible SI and guilt over what I did to my family. I hadn't slept for 5 days and was completely delusional and I hardly remember it. So the SI is intense as is the way my brain is torturing me about what I did.  I will never act on it, but I feel like I'm wallowing in suffering with no direction.  

How do I move forward? I'm sure you have been asked for advice before on this.  I know the ruminating about the event is a symptom of W/D, so I'm hoping that will fade over time.  I am already in therapy, but again, no one believes this is W/D, and just say I've had a relapse.  I know this is W/D because it is the exact same feeling I had when I started experiencing interdose W/D from Xanax. 

[ResilienceandHope]

Does anyone know of a document that recognizes that w/d can be delayed for several months after a rapid taper? My family doesn’t believe it and thinks I just had a relapse since the symptoms didn’t start until 10 weeks after I finished my taper. 
Also, is there anyone who is a suicide attempt survivor who would be willing to give me advice on how to get through this?