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Shep
11 hours ago, Guilietta said:

I experience dizziness and leg asthenia on many mornings - sometimes prior to taking meds and sometimes before. It may be 30 minutes after getting up or 20 minutes after taking them (with food always). It may last 1 hour or 3. I sometimes have asthenia in my arms at other times during the day although I try to ignore it. ;)

 

My usual BP is good - between 110-120 / 80-70 (left arm).

 

Thanks for the information, Guilietta. Sometimes psych drugs can cause drops in blood pressure that can cause dizziness, but since you're getting dizziness sometimes before the drugs and sometimes after, the dizziness may not be related to an adverse reaction to the drugs. It may just be another random withdrawal symptom that's appeared. 

 

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Giulietta
7 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

How are you today? Just dropping in and catching up on your thread xxxxx

 

Hello Sweetie,

 

Thank you for dropping by!  

 

I have pros and cons - feeling more cons and worries than pros.

 

We are expecting 2 days of pouring rain - starting tonight. I may change my plan  to go into the city for a concert (wasted $$) since it's a difficult trip to get there anyway. It is Bach and Christmas music - sung by a chorale of men, women, and young people. Heard them last year and they are all so talented. Musicians down to earth folks nice to talk with.

 

I have to post an Xmas present to my friend in the UK today. She knows that depending on US Mail and Royal Mail it may be late. And customs. ;) It will be good to get out of the house.

 

 On the plus side I slept well.I was not dizzy or have weak legs this morning.  Before I get out of bed in the morning I worry that I may have weak legs/dizziness.v 😕  Things blew over with Dad so that's a relief.  :) 

 

On the not so good side I checked my BP and it is low and heart rate elevated (thanks to @Shep's suggestion)  I think for the circumstances. Intermitten chest pain still and elevated BPM. I am of course worried about my heart now and  hope the cardiologist will see me sooner than my appointment in March.  She is a lipd specialist so may refer me to someone else. 🙁 

 

Cloud day here - but will get out for some bright light. Time to  feed the precious onees (the dogs)!

 

Hugs,

Giulietta

 

 

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Gridley
34 minutes ago, Guilietta said:

On the plus side I slept well.I was not dizzy or have weak legs this morning.  Before I get out of bed in the morning I worry that I may have weak legs/dizziness.v 😕  Things blew over with Dad so that's a relief.  :) 

 

I'm glad especially about the weak legs and your father.

 

I do hope you can get to the cardiologist sooner, if for no other reason than to put your mind at ease.

 

 

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Giulietta
3 hours ago, Shep said:

Sometimes psych drugs can cause drops in blood pressure that can cause dizziness, but since you're getting dizziness sometimes before the drugs and sometimes after, the dizziness may not be related to an adverse reaction to the drugs.

 

Hello Shep,

 

Thank you for your information.

 

I took more measurements this morning (Feb 13 2019)  I did not have dizziness or weak legs this morning (thankfully). The next time I do I will collect the data.

  • 7.15 a.m.    101/58 (left); 76 BPM (elevated rate for me). After arising from bed, walking around for a few minutes, then sitting for 5 min. This is pre-meds.
  • 8.15 a.m.    103/70 (left); 77 BPM after sitting for 5 min. These measurements after meds.
  • 10 a.m.    115/63 (left); 71 BPM
  • 10.40 a.m. after 30 min on Treadmill - 111/69 and 85 BPM. (30 min moderate pace)
  • 11.15 a.m. 101/679 - BPM 87 Heart pounding so was curious. Elevated heart rate.

I wonder if the BP values are a little on the low side?   As this is a WD issue - and I am at .4 mg of the duloxetine - do I  bring this up or does it matter.


@Shep @Gridley I am not comfortable with the frequency of chest pounding and why I have this .Will post separately on this after reviewing logs for when it  began and association with dose changes. It may have been when I converted to beads. Not sure.

 

Thanks to you both.

 

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Giulietta
3 hours ago, Gridley said:

I do hope you can get to the cardiologist sooner, if for no other reason than to put your mind at ease.

 

Hi Gridley

 

I went through my logs. I'm not sure I see a line between more chest pounding / related symptoms and starting the beads. This is the Sunday I had planned  to drop to 1 bead. That being said -  I may leave myself at 2 beads (.4 mg). The cardiac complaint plus the stress of this week induces me to leave myself at .4 mg.

 

I did  some reading on SA about cardiac issues. It is more detailed, etc. than I can follow. The people on it have some expertise. I did post information for two members who had posted and still active on SA. I don't know where to start with the cardiologist in terms of questions and what test(s) should be done. The MD may also have no appreciation of WD - but this is a what if.

 

Thanks go to  ChessieCat for posting the below link associating ADs with "...lengthening of the QT interval, an aspect of the heart's electrical activity that -- when prolonged -- may increase the risk of dangerous arrhythmias."

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/130129190237.htm

 

Chest pounding may come out of nowhere - not when exercising thus far (thank goodness) including when under general  or situational stress  (like writing this email!).(now 112/65 and 85 BPM - while sitting the past hour). BPM should be between 65-70). It fluctuates and 15 minutes later it was down to 73 BPM.

 

 

Thanks,

Giuilietta

 

 

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Cocopuffz17

I have had similar symptoms as to what you are describing during my WD. Chest tightness and feeling like my heart is going crazy. I chalked it up to withdrawals and have not had it reoccur in a few months. 

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Giulietta
16 minutes ago, Cocopuffz17 said:

I have had similar symptoms as to what you are describing during my WD. Chest tightness and feeling like my heart is going crazy.

 

Thanks, Cocopuffz.  Glad they went away. :) At what point did they start during your WD and how long did they last?

 

They have started for me really in October (10 mos) and become much worse the past few weeks. 

 

 

 

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Cocopuffz17

I would say they were sporadic throughout a 3-4 month span. My anxiety would spike and that symptom would almost always follow it... tight chest and heart going crazy. I have not had them happen in a few months now though. 

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mustafa

Hi @Guilietta, iam very sorry iam not supporting you these days, sometimes I feel lost and can't arrange my ideas so I avoid saying anything would hurt or say tough words or anything but I always think of you❤️.

Mustafa

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Shep
On 12/12/2019 at 8:38 AM, Guilietta said:

7 a.m. .   5 mg clonazepam, 300 mg gabapentin, 2.5 mg lisinopril, 10 mg crestor,   - supplements below fyi

1 p.m.     300 mg gabapentin

6 p.m.     600 mg lamotrigine ER with dinner

9 p.m.-10 p.m. 1.5 mg clonazepam, gabapentin 300 mg

 

 

19 hours ago, Guilietta said:
  • 7.15 a.m.    101/58 (left); 76 BPM (elevated rate for me). After arising from bed, walking around for a few minutes, then sitting for 5 min. This is pre-meds.
  • 8.15 a.m.    103/70 (left); 77 BPM after sitting for 5 min. These measurements after meds.
  • 10 a.m.    115/63 (left); 71 BPM
  • 10.40 a.m. after 30 min on Treadmill - 111/69 and 85 BPM. (30 min moderate pace)
  • 11.15 a.m. 101/679 - BPM 87 Heart pounding so was curious. Elevated heart rate.

 

It may helpful to look at these two lists together. When you do your drug and symptoms journal, either online here or on paper, you may want to include your blood pressure within your journal, if you're not already doing so. 

 

How is your blood pressure in the evening after 6 PM and after 9 PM, after taking the evening and nighttime drugs? 

 

19 hours ago, Gridley said:

I do hope you can get to the cardiologist sooner, if for no other reason than to put your mind at ease.

 

This is a great point from Gridley. 

 

It's quite possible that this is simply a wave or a transient side effect of the drugs, but the "mind at ease" aspect is important. 

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Giulietta
15 hours ago, mustafa said:

iam very sorry iam not supporting you these days, sometimes I feel lost and can't arrange my ideas

 

Thank you for stopping by to stay hello. I know it is very hard to communicate in a foreign langage. Even when you use a translator - you look at your language and know it isn't right!

 

15 hours ago, Cocopuffz17 said:

My anxiety would spike and that symptom would almost always follow it... tight chest and heart going crazy. I have not had them happen in a few months now though. 

 

It is good news that they have gone. I would not say that I am that anxious when I experience them.  I may feel a sense of guilt though - I should  be doing something else, something should be done, I have wasted (or am wasting) time,  I am trying tohelp around the house but no one wants me to.  Family wonders why I am in my room spending so much time at my computer! They don't understand the WD. So there is hurt and sadness with that. Still - these are not new feelings. I am just being able to put them down now.

 

It is not the kind of anxiety where I am in physical danger.

 

 

 

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Giulietta

Hello Shep,

 

59 minutes ago, Shep said:

It may helpful to look at these two lists together. When you do your drug and symptoms journal, either online here or on paper, you may want to include your blood pressure within your journal, if you're not already doing so. 

 

Should I put down the dosage of meds when I indicate when I take meds?

 

1 hour ago, Shep said:

How is your blood pressure in the evening after 6 PM and after 9 PM, after taking the evening and nighttime drugs? 

 

Excellent question and I haven't done this. Will start tonight.

 

1 hour ago, Shep said:
20 hours ago, Gridley said:

I do hope you can get to the cardiologist sooner, if for no other reason than to put your mind at ease.

 

This is a great point from Gridley. 

 

Sending the MD an email now and that I will follow up with her office on Monday to schedule.

 

@Shep and @Gridley Can you advise how I should handle the WD subject with her?   I don't know if she buys the concept of WD.  I did some reading on SA and caridac involvement about this - which is several pay grades above me. I did see this article....

 

16 hours ago, Guilietta said:

ink associating ADs with "...lengthening of the QT interval, an aspect of the heart's electrical activity that -- when prolonged -- may increase the risk of dangerous arrhythmias."

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/130129190237.htm

 

 

Thanks,

G.

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Giulietta

Hello @Erell

 

Do you remembe some time back you mentioned (I think it was you 😕 ) that being judged by others was causing you anxiety and stress. I mentioned that it is no one's business but ours. I also said it is hard to do without alienating others.

 

Do you still have to deal with this as much as you did then? What do you find that works?

 

I woke up this morning finally realizing a component of anxiety and pain for me is guilt and comparison with others in my family. I am not doing what is expected of me. I could do better.  They ask what I am doing in my room at my computer all the time? I am a huge disaippointment to my family and to myself - not just WD - but life in general.

 

Here is waht I wrote to @mustafa

 

14 minutes ago, Guilietta said:

I may feel a sense of guilt though - I should  be doing something else, something should be done, I have wasted (or am wasting) time,  I am trying tohelp around the house but no one wants me to.  Family wonders why I am in my room spending so much time at my computer!

 

These things have been plaguing/eating me for a long time = not just in this wave.

 

Thanks for your wisdom and support

Hugs

Giulietta

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Gridley
38 minutes ago, Guilietta said:

how I should handle the WD subject with her

Bring the printed-out article with the pertinent sentences highlighted.  Also highlight the credentials of the person(s) responsible for the finding and methodology used to reach the findings and any tests done to prove the findings.

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Shep
18 minutes ago, Guilietta said:

Should I put down the dosage of meds when I indicate when I take meds?

 

Yes. This will help you, especially as you continue tapering, to be able to easily see the dose you're at within the context of your symptoms. 

 

19 minutes ago, Guilietta said:

Can you advise how I should handle the WD subject with her?   I don't know if she buys the concept of WD.  I did some reading on SA and caridac involvement about this - which is several pay grades above me.

 

You may want to print out journal articles to bring with you. You already have found some information and here is some more:

 

Duloxetine-Associated Tachycardia

 

Clinicians should be aware of the possibility of clinically significant tachycardia in patients receiving duloxetine, even in low doses.

 

Fava, 2019 Iatrogenic Factors in Psychopathology

 

In psychiatry, iatrogenesis has traditionally been concerned with medical complications of psychotropic drug treatment [3], such as tardive dyskinesia [4] and insulin resistance [5] with antipsychotic drugs, and cardiac and metabolic disturbances with antidepressant medications [6–8]. 

 

Tseng, 2012 Low-dose escitalopram for 2 days associated with QT interval prolongation in a middle-aged woman

 

The FDA put a cardiac warning on citalopram a few months ago and limited doses to 40mg. Escitalopram is several times stronger than its cousin citalopram. . . . Clinicians should be cautious about cardiac effects when using a SSRI, even in a low dose.

 

The first article is specific to duloxetine, which is a SSNRI. Some of these drugs mentioned in the other articles are SSRIs, but I think there's enough evidence that there are a lot of safety concerns with all of these drugs. 

 

And you'll likely find more of these articles over in the Journals section. Use the search function to look for specific symptoms within the journals section. 

 

For general advice on speaking with doctors, please see:

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

 

Withdrawal dialogues & encouragement

 

 

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Giulietta

Hello - and thank you for the articles @Shep and @Gridley

 

Today is my first week of .2 mg (1 bead) - after having been 6 weeks on .4 mg (2 beads). After the past few/several weeks of this wave -  I am not sure that decreasing .2 mg will make a difference or not in my WD symptoms.  What do you think?

 

 

 

On 12/14/2019 at 9:41 AM, Shep said:
On 12/14/2019 at 8:59 AM, Guilietta said:

Should I put down the dosage of meds when I indicate when I take meds?

 

Yes. This will help you, especially as you continue tapering, to be able to easily see the dose you're at within the context of your symptoms. 

 

December 14 - not any dizziness of much chest pounding ;)  Didn't document the emotions

All vitals taken sitting

 

5 a.m.     Awaken

7 a.m.     Get up. BP 109/70 HR 82 BPM

8 a.m.     Breakfast and meds (300 mg gaba, .25 mg clonaz., 2.5 mg lisinopril, .4 mg dulox, 10 mg crestor, 100 mg CoQ10, B12, Calcium/magnesium/zinc, fish oil).

8.15 a.m.     BP 114/69 HR 81 BPM

11.30 a.m.   BP 104/58 HR 102 BPM - after 45 min on treadmill mod pace

12 p.m.    lunch

1.30 p.m.      300 mg gaba

1.45 p.m.     BP 106/77 HR 83

6.30 p.m.    600 mg lamotrigine ER

7.00 p.m.    BP  111/69 HR 69 BPM

9.30 p.m.   400 mg gaba, .75 mg clonaz

9.45 p.m.  BP 105/65 HR 70  BPM

10 p.m.     Bed

 

Dizziness....you may recall my comments about dizziness, blurry vision, and (or not) asthenia. This morning I was visited by dizziness and captured details on it. I will post tomorrow when I have a full day.

 

That being said -

Every morning I lay in bed and the first thought / feeling is one of dread -  will I start the day with dizziness [and associated symptoms] this morning.  I almost fear getting out of bed!  I read some of the discouraging dizziness threads this afternoon.  😕

 

As I look back since 11/25/2019  this experience is so unbelievable words don't give it credibility. One must truly experience it if one cannot take it on faith. I have had one decent day.

 

What can I do to improve my circumstances?

Could I take more fish oil? Stop all the supplements but magnesium and the fish oil?

Does stopping sugar really help? 

Does anything help with dizziness?

 

Since 11/25 - I have had one decent day. I didn't look back further than that.

 

The litany of symptoms since then is inclusive.

 

 

Edited by Guilietta
Pressed send accidentall

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Gridley
1 hour ago, Guilietta said:

Could I take more fish oil? Stop all the supplements but magnesium and the fish oil?

Does stopping sugar really help? 

 

Re dropping down to 0.2: The normal course of events when tapering is an increase in symptoms initially, with stabilizing after.  The old rule applies that it takes around a week to ten days for the full effect of a dose change to be felt.

 

How much are you taking of the fish oil?  You could try increasing very slightly to see how that feels.

 

Supplements: Calcium and magnesium can compete with each other for absorption.  Unless you have a special need for calcium, I'd get a straight magnesium glycinate supplement and omit the calcium.  At the least, they should be taken at separate  times (thus the combination is not good).

Alto recommends 400 IU E to help with the omegas.

 

Re sugar: Here's the one place where I can be unequivocal: stopping sugar really helps, especially with anxiety.

 

I don't have an answer on reducing the dizziness.  I have it too sometimes and I'm very careful about getting up and other movements.

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Giulietta
29 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Re dropping down to 0.2: The normal course of events when tapering is an increase in symptoms initially, with stabilizing after.

 

Thanks, Gridley

 

I have spent more than an hour reviewing my logs for a pattern or trends. 

 

It looks like things became worse from late November to the present in 4 major categories (cardiac, 3 days of intense auras, dizziness/wobbly legs). This is about 4-5 weeks post change to beads (.4 mg). With emotions - who knows.

Does this mean anything to you in terms of rate of taper?

 

I wonder whether symptoms changed and/or worsened since going to beads, including anxiety (cutting out sugar will help with the latter).  

  • After 6 weeks on .4 mg - I can say that I have experienced more dizziness/wobbly legs (8 times since starting beads) vs. 3 times in September. I didn't look back into August. I have had 7  or 8 since 10/14. Since 12/1 I have had wobbly legs/dizziness (I had to sit down) on 4 days:  8, 10, 11, 15. 
  • Auras:  three very bad days for auras -  11/30, 12/2 and 12/4 being notable. The 4th I nearly called the MD and now I know next steps for taking ativan if I need to - thanks to you, Shep and Rhiannon.
  • Tacchycardia/Low BP: very persistent this week - throughout the days.  I first noted these 11/25. It worsened over the past 5 days.
  • From an emotional perspective - I have experienced a lot of triggers  - in addition to a high level of stress (part of which may include the holidays).
1 hour ago, Gridley said:

How much are you taking of the fish oil?

 

1200 mg (360 mg Omega-3).

 

1 hour ago, Gridley said:

Calcium and magnesium can compete with each other for absorption.  Unless you have a special need for calcium, I'd get a straight magnesium glycinate supplement and omit the calcium.

 

So is calcium in food  fine (1200 mg for the bones etc.) - but calcium supplements should be omitted.

 

2 hours ago, Gridley said:

400 IU E

 

Thanks. I will add this to my shopping cart.

 

2 hours ago, Gridley said:

I have it too sometimes and I'm very careful about getting up and other movements.

 

Sorry you are similarly afflicted. I can manage it when sitting unless it is very bad (turning, moving my head, etc.). Rescheduling  morning obligations (or missing church) are definitely disruptive.

 

Thanks,

G.

 

 

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Gridley
11 hours ago, Guilietta said:

 

I wonder whether symptoms changed and/or worsened since going to beads

 

It looks from your log like the switchover caused the uptick in symptoms.  We don't know whether you're getting more or less with the beads than with the liquid.

 

11 hours ago, Guilietta said:

Does this mean anything to you in terms of rate of taper?

I would've said hold at 0.4, but I believe you said you've already dropped to 0.2.  How many days ago did you drop to 0.2 and do you see any correlation between the drop and symptoms, keeping in mind the week or so it takes a change to reach full effect.

 

11 hours ago, Guilietta said:

calcium supplements should be omitted.

Or else taken separately from magnesium.

 

11 hours ago, Guilietta said:

1200 mg (360 mg Omega-3).

 

That's about standard.  I would stay there.

 

I hope you have some good spells today.

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Giulietta

Good morning,

 

4 minutes ago, Gridley said:

It looks from your log like the switchover caused the uptick in symptoms.  We don't know whether you're getting more or less with the beads than with the liquid.

 

I went back to the 10/28 (date of transition to beads?) to scrunitize (more!) and it appears that before the transition to beads I had dropped the liquid dose for a week - and with symptom increase - increased for 10 days or so before starting the beads.

 

25 minutes ago, Gridley said:

I would've said hold at 0.4, but I believe you said you've already dropped to 0.2.  How many days ago did you drop to 0.2 and do you see any correlation between the drop and symptoms

 

Yesterday I dropped to .2 mg  from .4 mg (2 to 1 bead(s)). I took .2 mg (1 bead) 1 hour ago and could add 1 bead now.

 

I don't want to worsen my situation. Would like to feel better. I hope I did not shoot myself in the foot yesterday.

 

27 minutes ago, Gridley said:

do you see any correlation between the drop and symptoms

 

If I go back up to 2 beads today - and hold for a while - I tend to think this may be better for stablization and have to deal with the symptoms? Did I shoot myself in the foot?

 

1 hour ago, Gridley said:

I hope you have some good spells today.

 

Thanks. Me too.  :)

 

Thanks and kindest wishes to you. I hope you are fine in Ecuador. 😉

 

G.

____________________________

 

FYI - P.S.more details if any value

 

I am confused about the uptick in symptoms - and why I decreased - even though this was perhaps illogical even though I considered a lot of things.

  • After 10/28 I think may be more despair - but then this is a time of year for more despair for me anyway.
  • I thought we were looking at 7 days to see a change not 28. 😕
  • It was 4-4.5 weeks on the .4 mg bead before the physical symptoms got worse in 7-10 days.
  • Holidays are a stressful time of the year for me so there is more dspair and anxiety anyway. I just try to roll with them.
  • Family stresses around my ongoing WD symptoms, lack of life future, and so many things about my value and use in life - are difficult. 
  • Family: Comparison with my unfilled unexpectations and comparison with other family members - at so many levels.
  • My own mourning for the past 16 months = more stress.
  • Disappointment with myself for life in general. But that is not what these posts are about. More stress.
  • Symptoms crummy and one or 1.5 decent days. Does decreasing .2 mg matter. 
  • A lot of situational issues.

Going through a lot of situational issues may have been reason NOT to decrease.

 

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Gridley
6 minutes ago, Guilietta said:

 

If I go back up to 2 beads today - and hold for a while - I tend to think this may be better for stablization and have to deal with the symptoms? Did I shoot myself in the foot?

 

No, it's only been one day.  I'd go back up to two beads.

 

8 minutes ago, Guilietta said:

It was 4-4.5 weeks on the .4 mg bead before the physical symptoms got worse in 7-10 days.

 

So it looks like 2 beads is a good place for you to be at the moment.

11 minutes ago, Guilietta said:

Family stresses

 

I would think these factors have a lot to do with your increased symptoms.

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Giulietta
17 minutes ago, Gridley said:

No, it's only been one day.  I'd go back up to two beads.

 

Thanks. Adding a bead now. ;)

 

G.

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Carmie

Hi Guilietta, 

 

Thanks for dropping around to my neck of the woods. So you’re freezing where you are? It’s warm here in Queensland, but today isn’t too bad. I’m extremely happy I have aircon in my bedroom. I’m definitely grateful for aircon. I always like to look for things I’m grateful for.😁

 

How have you been doing? I finally tapered again this week after two months. It’s feels good to get some forward movement happening again. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

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Erell

Hi dear friend 

 

How are you doing?

 

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Giulietta

Dear Carmie, @Carmie

 

It's nice to hear from you - and I'm glad you are able to be online. Congratulations on dropping. It does feel wonderful to make a decrease - a little bit of progress is really a huge step.  I really am excited for you. People outside SA can't possibly understand that it is a victory for us to make a step. 💗

 

I live in the northeastern US. Winter has come early and it's already extremely cold. The past 2 mornings it has been 12 degrees Fahrenheit. I think this is -11 C? We've had 3 snow storms and 1 sort of ice storm. There is white icing on the ground, trees, rocks, etc. It's pretty until February - when it becomes dirty with sand put on the roads!

 

Dear @Erell

 

I have been doing OK - can't complain - it has been what I call a decent week for WD. Even though physical symptoms have been OK until today - the usual  anxiety which never goes away, to irritability, impatience, and despair are always with me.  I try to manage and hide myself when I am not particularly in good spirits and patient. ;) 

 

I set some reasonable goals for myself - on Tuesday (or Wed) and got nothing done. Other things popped up - which were urgent - and took a lot of time. Getting one my medicine prescriptions sorted out (the expensive lamotrigine ER) took 4 hours yesterday.  I was disgusted.

 

I have been trying to avoid / distract myself from ruminating - about my family and dog, my future security (money and where will I live - there is a housing shortage in the US - which is a way to keep prices high!), my health, and making a life and future I can be happy in. So I think I am not alone with these anxieties.

 

It is sunny here - so I am fine with the very cold temperatures!  I am going to brighten spirits by turning on some Christmas candles. :)

 

Hugs,

Giulietta

 

 

 

 

 

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Giulietta

Hello @Gridley and @Shep

 

After entering just about everything - I somehow lost the data) and now I don't know where to start rewriting everything. So - sorry if this is a bit disjoined.

 

I am going to post and then edit so this data doesn't get lost. The detailed finding formatting is bad b/c it was copy/pasted from Word.

 

I have experienced as you know chest pounding, elevated heart rate and low BP, dizziness, imbalance... over the past two weeks or so. The cardiologist advised me on Wed  to stop taking the lisinopril ( 2.5 mg dose).   [Low BP can cause the heart to work harder and elevate the BPM.]  I stopped taking lisinopril on Thursday 12/20.  It takes about 4 days to get out of your system from online info. She did not indicate I should come in now.

 

I sent her the article on arthymia and duloxetine (done at MGH).  She knew in March 2019 that I am getting of duloxetine. 

 

Symptoms:

Cardiac: Today has been the first day in the past 2 weeks or so that I have not had much in terms of chest pounding to complain of.  When I took my BP/HR during periods of check discomfort/pounding - it was normal. :)

 

Dizziness and imbalance (sometimes accompanied by wobbly legs) - I experienced this most recently on 12/15 and 12/20. It occurs in the morning, while I am standing or walking, starts at 7, 8 or 9 - thus far - and started happening regularly in September. It is usually about 2 or 3 times a week. It may last 1.5 hours - or often 3 hours. I have to sit during this time and slowly move my head and neck so it doesn't get worse. This is not related to BP and starts  both before and after meds.

 

Detailed findings:

12/15

7 a.m. 113/65 - 70 BPM - upon awakening
7.30 a.m.
300 mg gaba, 2.5 mg lisinopril, .4 mg duloxetine, .25 mg  clonazepam, 10 mg crestor


7.30 a.m. BP: 112/62 BPM 78 (R)


8.15-8.30’s onset of really dizzy/wobbly legsa
8.30 a.m. 103/64 - 83 BPM
1.30 p.m. Gaba 300 mg


2.30 p.m. 118/74 - BPM 69
3.30 p.m. 110/60 - 101 BPM (after 40 min on treadmill - 18 min pace)
6.30 p.m. 127/78 - 66 BPM

12/16. Spotty data documentation day.


7 a.m. Awaken. BP 113/77 HR 74


7.30 a.m. 300 mg gaba, 2.5 mg lisinopril, .4 mg duloxetine, .25 mg  clonazepam, 10 mg crestor


7.45 a.m. BP: 120/78 HR 74


No measurements until 6 pm- don’t recall why


6 lamotrigine 600 mg ER


6.39 BP 125/79 HR 63


No measurement @ bedtime

12/17


7.30 300 mg gaba, 2.5 mg lisinopril, .4 mg duloxetine, .25 mg  clonazepam, 10 mg crestor


7.30 BP: 95/50 HR 76


8 BP 104/65 HR 81


1 pm 300 mg gaba


1 pm BP 112/69 HR 76


6.15 pm Lamotrigine ER 600 mg


7.30  BP 106/62 HR 69 (R arm)


9 pm. 300 mg gabapentin, .75 mg clonazepam


9 pm 112/71 HR 60

12/18 – Called Cardiologist. Advised to stop lisinopril.


7 a.m. 300 mg gaba, 2.5 mg lisinopril, .4 mg duloxetine, .25 mg  clonazepam, 10 mg crestor


7.30 96/60 HR 72


8.30 100/56 HR 83 chest thumping
1.30 300 mg gaba


2.30 BP 121/72 HR 82 (R)


6.30 lamotrigine ER 600 mg


7 BP 97/66 HR 73


9 300 mg gabapentin, .75 mg clonazepam


9.30 BP 107/62 HR 66



12/19 – Stopped lisinopril this day per call with cardiologist on 12/18.

7.30 a.m.300 mg gaba,.4 mg duloxetine, .25 mg  clonazepam, 10 mg crestor


8.00 BP 104/61 HR 72
9 a.m. 103/57 - 91 BPM  - after 45 min on treadmill


10.45 107/73 HR 77 – chest discomfort/stress


1.00 300 mg gaba


1.30 BP 113/68 HR 79


6.00 lamotrigine


6.30 BP 109/69 HR 67


9.30 400 mg gabapentin, .75 mg clonazepam


9.30 BP 107/62 HR 66

12/20 – 2nd day with no lisinopril.

6.45 a.m. Awaken BP 100/69. 64 BPM


7.15 300 mg gaba,.4 mg duloxetine, .25 mg  clonazepam, 10 mg crestor


7.45 BP 114/69 HR 81


8.45  Dizzy, imbalance starts around 8.40


8.45 BP and HR remembered as WNL – but forgot to write them down in mayhem of unexpected imbalance, dizziness, etc.


11 a.m. About normal balance and no dizziness – gradually fading from 10 a.m. on ward.


1 pm 300 mg gaba, .75 mg clonazepam


1.30 BP 121/75 HR 65

 

Thanks,

Giulietta

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Gridley

@Guilietta Good report.  Seems like things are going pretty well, less wobbliness and I see no mention of autos, so that's great news.

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mustafa

Hi @Guilietta, I was thinking of you alot these days, I think you weren't viewing SA alot the last few days, I hope you are ok ❤️; I like that you are caring yourself, I hope you do everything according to plans and schedules❤️.

I sent you a personal.message to be assured you are ok .

Take care of yourself, we are all standing behind you .

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Shep
16 hours ago, Guilietta said:

12/19 – Stopped lisinopril this day per call with cardiologist on 12/18.

 

I hope you get some relief by coming off this drug, but is there any reason you would need to suddenly stop? 

 

Please note we recommend tapering blood pressure drugs. We don't have a tapering thread specific to lisinopril; however, you may want to read over these threads for some background information on blood pressure drugs: 

 

Tapering Alpha Blockers or Beta Blockers

 

Antihypertensive Clonidine Withdrawal: Psych Meds not the only drugs to cause PAWS

 

Tips for tapering off propranolol

 

Unless your cardiologist noticed you're having an adverse reaction to the drug, which requires a sudden discontinuation, you may want to taper it. This will prevent rebound blood pressure problems and withdrawal symptoms. Please post your thoughts on this after you have a chance to look over these threads. 

 

Please double-check with your cardiologist, as suddenly stopping these kinds of drugs can cause problems for some people. If it's not an adverse reaction, you may want to consider tapering. 

 

 

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Giulietta
10 hours ago, Shep said:

Please note we recommend tapering blood pressure drugs. We don't have a tapering thread specific to lisinopril; however, you may want to read over these threads for some background information on blood pressure drugs: 

 

 

Hello @Shep

 

I looked over the information, thank you for sending the links.

 

The cardio did not tell me to taper, even though I mentioned my current WD with duloxetine.  I was on the lowest dose - 2.5 mg and had been on this dose for 2-3 years. Today was my 3rd day off lisinopril. 

 

11 hours ago, Shep said:

Unless your cardiologist noticed you're having an adverse reaction to the drug, which requires a sudden discontinuation, you may want to taper it. This will prevent rebound blood pressure problems and withdrawal symptoms.

 

Hypotension may be an adverse reaction - and I had intermittent hypotension and elevated HR. Maybe that is why she told me to stop the lisinopril.

 

I will monitor my BP/HR and Iwill email her on Monday with my BP/HR readings.  Should I ask why we didn't taper even the 2.5 mg dose?

 

On 12/20/2019 at 8:28 PM, mustafa said:

I sent you a personal.message to be assured you are ok .

 

That you, Mustafa, that was very kind of you. I am doing fine and as you can see changing out another medication.

 

On 12/20/2019 at 5:40 PM, Gridley said:

Seems like things are going pretty well, less wobbliness

 

They are still with me. On 12/19 - the day after I stopped the lisinopril - I had a bout of dizziness, imbalance, etc. for the morning. I read that another SA member was diagnosed with uncompensated labyrinthitus and would go to a physio. I had been doing nothing about these frequent periods of dizziness/imbalance/wobblies - but wonder if now I should to see how I can reduce/improve them.

 

 

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Shep
9 hours ago, Guilietta said:

I will monitor my BP/HR and Iwill email her on Monday with my BP/HR readings.  Should I ask why we didn't taper even the 2.5 mg dose?

 

You could mention that you're concerned about rebound blood pressure problems when you email her. That's a logical concern. And if there's any harm in staying on the drug a bit longer to do a taper. 

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Gridley
11 hours ago, Guilietta said:

but wonder if now I should to see how I can reduce/improve them.

 

It wouldn't be a bad idea.

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Giulietta
2 hours ago, Shep said:

You could mention that you're concerned about rebound blood pressure problems when you email her. That's a logical concern. And if there's any harm in staying on the drug a bit longer to do a taper. 

 

Thanks. This a great way to ask her without I hope questioning her judgement. I don't want to be labeled a difficult patient.  Today will be my 4th day off the lisinopril and tomorrow the 5th.

 

43 minutes ago, Gridley said:

It wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

Sometimes assuming isn't a good idea (which is what I have been doing).  Do you have any ideas on whether the best person to start with would be an ENT do you think? Or a neurologist? The fewew of these people I go to the happier I am. ;) I will check the other board too.

 

I hope you are both having a nice day.

 

G.

 

 

 

 

 

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Shep
47 minutes ago, Guilietta said:

Thanks. This a great way to ask her without I hope questioning her judgement. I don't want to be labeled a difficult patient.  Today will be my 4th day off the lisinopril and tomorrow the 5th.

 

Your system is likely already adapting to this change. I understand not wanting to be a difficult patient, but I wouldn't stay off this drug too long and risk withdrawal if there's no adverse reaction or any other medical reason to do a cold turkey. Please note it takes 4 days for your nervous system to register a change and a week or more to adapt, so if you're only off the drug for a few days, you can likely get back on it at the full dose without too many problems. 

 

Please let us know what you find out.

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Gridley
1 hour ago, Guilietta said:

ENT do you think? Or a neurologist?

I would start with the ENT because that would be simpler exam to eliminate that possibility. The neurologist is likely to be more complicated.

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ShiningLight
On 12/14/2019 at 6:13 AM, Guilietta said:

 I am a huge disaippointment to my family and to myself - not just WD - but life in general.

 

 

I think the globalization to life in general is indicative of depressive thinking. Give yourself a break! You are coping with multiple health conditions. Why is it that you don't think you have a future?

 

I hope your wobbly legs, dizziness, and heart symptoms improve soon. About the holidays... you're not alone. It's a difficult time for a lot of people, myself included.

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