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Erell: struggling with paroxetine

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Guilietta

@Sassenach  This is terrific:

"If you are going through Hell, keep going. NCIS series 15, David MaCallum"

 

I'm glad your day went OK and you felt better in the evening.

 

Dear Erell,

You can and will get through his misery. I went through this as well - and it was terrifying - I didn't know when I would feel better or if I would (like you said). One hour I would have jitters and tremors and the next hour I would be in despair and sobbing. I didn't know if I would make it through this  -  but I was determined that I would succeed. I knew how horrible the drug was - that I had to get off - and with all the side effects while on it- it was bad for me! One thing that I told myself when I was in despair is that eventually I would need to get off duloxetine anyway. 

 

I hadn't found SA so I didn't understand what the heck was happening to me and have the emotional support.  We are all pullig for you and KNOW you will improve. It's a lot of work for our brains to adjust to not having the drug so until it adjusts to 'normal' again - we do have terror, panic, despair, unpleasant emotional states.

 

I have recently been having more good days than bad. I am thankful. It has taken me 9 months to get here. After stabilizing on this - I have to do what you did masterfully - get off a benzo. You are awesome to have done that. If you can do that you can do this! :)

 

Hugs,

Giuilietta

 

 

 

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Guilietta
4 minutes ago, Rhiannon said:

What I believe you can expect is, unfortunately, to feel pretty bad a lot of the time for a few more months, but to have a good moment or two almost every day, and to have days that are better mixed in with the bad ones. And unfortunately probably some days that are worse mixed in as well. But the days that are better will gradually come to outnumber the days that are worse. And gradually there will be less and less flip-flopping and more and more steady state. And that steady state, that baseline, will be gradually better.

 

Eventually you will be in a fairly steady state almost all the time. That is when it is time to begin to think about the next steps of tapering. Not before. This will take time.  Nobody can say for sure how long.

 

The expectations that Rhi put are so true - and my experience as well. Things seem bleak now AND you will get better. 

 

Have a very pleasant night,  😴

 

Giuilietta 

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Rhiannon
5 minutes ago, Rhiannon said:

 

What I believe you can expect is, unfortunately, to feel pretty bad a lot of the time for a few more months, but to have a good moment or two almost every day, and to have days that are better mixed in with the bad ones.

 

 

I see on reviewing your thread that you had the terrors again today and you are afraid they will not go away. I just want to clarify that I am not saying you will be in a state of terror for a few more months! Those are the bad days. They will come and go, I cannot say you will never have them again, but they will become less frequent and less terrible. They may cycle with your monthly hormones also. I was already past menopause when I began my tapering process, but I have seen many women find that their WD symptoms cycle with their hormones, which makes perfect sense.

 

Anyway I just wanted to make sure you understand, I am speaking of feeling generally not well, not saying you will be in terror. Since you have already had a few good days so early in the process, that is a VERY positive sign. Please go back and read your own thread and see that you have already had some relief from the terrors. That relief will happen again. You will have better days. There will also be a lot of bad days early on, but gradually this is all going to improve.

 

And one day, maybe a couple of years from now, when you are out dancing and running around and enjoying life and having adventures, you will look back on this time, and the future Erell will say to the 2019 Erell, "thank you so much for just going through those days, for continuing to walk your path, it was terrible and I am so grateful because now I have my life back!"

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Erell

Rhi,

 

Thank you for sharing your knowledges with me! It is so important To me To make sure I understand every parts of this process.

 

1. You talk about my response To reinstatement  : I'm not sure I understand this because I did not do a reinstatement. I updosed To 10mg on August 22nd, and added a lot of suppléments during September (big mistake).

But I did not stopped Paroxetine. That is why I'm concerned about my state, I did not coldturkeyed...

Can you explain me why you talk about reinstatement?

 

2. When you talk about feeling bad for a few months, I know I have To take some décisions. I won't be able To go back To my current job in this state, so I may have To quit it. This means i Will have To go back To live with my parents because I won't be able To pay my rent. So I have To take care of all this week (because I'm supposed To go back To work next monday). It's gonna be hard. 

 

3. I won't do anything crazy, I'm too scared of every psychdrugs now ! 

What scares me is the possible réaction of my parents : as I Will dépend on them, I hope they won't try To make me go in an hospital. 

 

4. To be honest, I don't care about tappering for now. All that matter To me is To Feel better, and live without terror.

 

 

I wanna thank you Rhi for your honesty,  even if it's hard To realize how much my life is going To change quickly. 

 

I apologize for this long message, just trying To make sure I understand everything. 

 

 

Have a great day Rhi! 

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Erell

@Rhiannon and @Guilietta : you both talk like if I had reinstatement..but I did'nt..Or I misunderstand the meaning of this Word?..

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Rhiannon
8 minutes ago, Erell said:

@Rhiannon and @Guilietta : you both talk like if I had reinstatement..but I did'nt..Or I misunderstand the meaning of this Word?..

 

I am probably not using the term correctly. I am referring to when you went from 8.4 back up to 10 mg in August, then 12 then 10 again. I thought you had stayed at 10 but I see you went to 15 for a day or two there. 

 

Best to stay at the same dose now. What your brain needs right now is stability and TIME. Once things are destabilized and bouncing around like they are right now, there is no magical dose or medication that will make it better. Any changes will just make it worse, honestly, and make it take longer to settle down. I believe you are learning this. It is the hardest thing, to be patient.

 

Also I think you know that when you do begin to taper again many months from now, you will need to go at a slower pace. Unfortunately you have the kind of history that usually means a very slow taper is required. It's okay, though, if you take it slow you will probably feel pretty good most of the time.

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Sassenach

Stop overanalysing.

Stop using the phone, take it to bed to use in the morning if necessary.

Relax before bed.

 

Good night

 

Sas

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Erell

@Rhiannon : yes, I don't wanna change anything with my dose and won't touch To my 10mg! I'm too scared and I know that there's no magic pill.

 

I know that if I ever tapper again i Will have To go sloooooooowly. But as I Said I'm not thinking about this for now 

 

What really scares me now is To quit m'y job and move from my flat To my parents house. 

 

 

I'm sorry To all of you,  never been so négative and now I Feel like i overwhelm everybody with my fears.

 

 

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Rhiannon

Your fears are much more overwhelming to you than they are to us. Your brain chemistry is causing you to feel those fears and to think scary thoughts. Do what you need to do, but if you can avoid taking drastic action until you feel better, that might be best. Can you get your job to agree to a leave for a few months? Would your parents loan you money to be able to stay in your place for a few months? Things will be different.

 

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Boris

Hi Erell

 

So sorry you're going through this. I went through it with paroxetine and I know that terror and it does eventually go, it really does. It does get easier to deal with and lessen.

 

I held at 5mg for over 2 years before I started tapering again.

 

I have other problems but that terror, agitation, horrendous anxiety and the rest have gone for the last 2 years. 

 

My fears spilled out all over and most people understood.

 

Hang in there and try stick to a dose.

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Guilietta
4 hours ago, Rhiannon said:

Your fears are much more overwhelming to you than they are to us. Your brain chemistry is causing you to feel those fears and to think scary thoughts. Do what you need to do, but if you can avoid taking drastic action until you feel better, that might be best. Can you get your job to agree to a leave for a few months? Would your parents loan you money to be able to stay in your place for a few months? Things will be different.

 

Hello Erell,

 

@Rhiannon is completely right - I am just chiming in. :)  

 

As our brains  adjust to less drug or absence of a drug - unpleasant emotions - panic, anxiety, terror, fear, etc.  manifest themselves without cause. Even though we are not in any danger (for example there is no lion chasing us) neuronal activity generates the fear response in us.  The fear seems real but it is not. 

 

I noticed you use a lot of 'what if's.' Very often people who are anxious use 'what if's a lot. ;) I am learning not to do so much of this. Most of the time (or very often) the 'what if's' don't  happen. It is wasted mental energy.

 

5 hours ago, Erell said:

What scares me is the possible réaction of my parents : as I Will dépend on them, I hope they won't try To make me go in an hospital. 

 

I see 'possible reaction' and that seems to me to be a 'what if'.  If you move in with your parents - let them know how to help you get better.  Let them know that you do not want to go to the hospital. Might this work?

 

 

@Boris Noticed your 'feel like a zombie' in your signature - sense of humor. :). I am a  CT/quick taper off duloxetine - a short-term SNRI - and this came with nasty anxiety, fear, panic, etc.  which I hope will be behind me - and for Erell too.

 

 

 

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Erell

Hello !

 

@Sassenach : you're probably right, I'm overanalysing. My life has changed in so many ways  in only one month, I have To realize it.

 

@Rhiannon : about drastic décisions  : I ddon't  know what I'm going To do, I'm gonna try To deal with it Today. 

 

@Boris : thank you for your support. And yes I Will definitely stick To that dose! ;)

 

@Guilietta : yes lot of what if right now...conséquences of the unknow. Will try To make positive what if ;)

 

 

Thank you all, your support means everything!

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Sassenach

Good morning

Did you sleep any better?

How are you feeling this morning?

Sass

 

 

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Erell

Good morning Sass!

 

I did not sleep Well, woke up every hour with High anxiety. 

This morning, I have a lot if High anxiety and despair. 

 

I know that nothing else can be done,  so I try To focus on healing. This is really hard.

 

I started magnesium : less than a quarter of a coffee spoon in a glass of water. I'm going To sipper it throughough the day.

 

I hope you're doing better than yesterday.

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Sassenach

Any terrors?

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Erell

This night yes, I woke up with terrors

 

This morning, it is not terror but à very High anxiety and despair.

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Erell

I also had terrible nauseas this night : they made me able To go through terrors. Everytime I have a physical symptom, I focus on it To escape from my head.

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Sassenach

Please do not forget your diaries they are especially important at the moment.

I need to be able to keep track of your symptoms accurately.

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Erell

Monday 30th Sept ( day 6 on 10mg) :

 

7.30 am woke up anxious ( anxiety : 7 / despair  : 7)

8 am : 10mg Paroxetine 

9.30 am : nausea

All morning : anxiety : 7 / despair  : 7

1.15 pm terrors all afternoon.

4pm a friend called,I cried all time. ( it feels Nice To cry). This friend has tappered from Effexor a few years ago, in only 3 months, and had no symptoms.

It increased my despair To a 9 rate.

4pm To 6pm anxiety : 7 / despair : 7.

Restlessness : 7.

6pm tried legs up on wall but it gave me a lot of tremors.

All evening: anxiety  : 6-7 / despair  : 6-7.

Fell asleep at 1am. Then woke up every hours with terrors or High anxiety.

1.36 am : woke up with strong nauseas.

 

This morning I woke up at 6am. Anxiety : 7 / despair  : 7.

 

I have To admitt that I don't see any pattern in my diaries.

Thank you for Being here Sass.

 

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Erell

With all what Rhiannon and Guilietta said yesterday, I understand that I'm gonna have awfull months. I know that there is nothing To do but hold. 

I just don't know how To stay strong with this level of anxiety. At least I used To sleep Well, but now I have no moment of peace. 

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Erell

Wow, I did a mistake : I went back To the French forum To say hello To friends and they messed me up : they told me I absolutely had To increase my AD, and that I should Feel in 1 or 2 days that I Feel better. If not, i should switche immediatly with prozac. also told me To take lithium orotathes.

 

Now I think i'll have To not go back on it, and only speak English here! 

I wanted To share this story with you because I find it really strange how huge are the différences between the advices given here and those given on the French forum  : add suppléments as soon as you're feeling bad, always updose an AD if you're feeling bad, systematic switches To prozac...

 

I know that you're right about holding, and I don't plan any change ;) I won't be able To go back on the FrenchForum because it makes me too anxious by saying different things.

 

Take care .

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Guilietta
5 hours ago, Erell said:

I just don't know how To stay strong with this level of anxiety. At least I used To sleep Well, but now I have no moment of peace. 

 

Hello Erell,

 

Just a quick note -  writing in bullet points so maybe easier to undestand:

  • Accept that the anxiety is going to be along to varying degrees on some days more than others. I learned to expect this and find ways to soothe myself (watch TV he lped take my mind off this and being around others I felt less anxious).
  • Seeing all the other people who succeeded and were struggling here on AD helped me to know to accept this as part of recovery and determination to stay the course. :)
  • Although everyone's experiences are different - I can tell you that my experience with anxiety, jitteriness, tremors, panic, insomnia, etc.  were the worst in the early months of my discontinuation by far.  I was like you are now - anxiety, panic, etc. all day for a while. Then the mornings became much better and the afternoons were bad iwth anxiety and bad tinnitus. That has diminished greatly.   
  • I am not unique. Others have done this and worse.  I am getting better and WD symptoms are much more tolerable. You will too.
  • I reminded myself  repeatedly that in spite of this discomfort and fear (which are 'artificial' as a confused brain tries to heal itself) that I was another step closer to success in getting off duloxetine.  I still  to remind myself that my healing continues.
  • Write down  why I am getting off of this garbage and look at it when I need reminding. :)

To feel better about myself in general -  when I was able

  • Do things to help others. It made me feel more positively about myself to do something for other people.
  • Did things to take care of myself. If someone you loved was sick - what would you do to help them?
  • Set small goals to achieve and feel proud of myself for doing them.

There's so much to learn on SA from articles and the experience of others. If something is not clear to you in my English - just asl me what it means. Your English is very good.

 

Have a pleasant day. :)

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Bigbird

Hi Erell, I’m pretty new here also. I just wanted to reach out and lend support and tell you I’m going through much like you are. I’m older than you 52  female and have been tapering off Paxil this year. I’ve been on it for 9 years and unfortunately followed the advice of a book instead of doing the 10% method outlined on this site. Learned a little late, but I’m hopeful. I’m having my own struggles, I’m not sleeping well, have tinnitus, jittery, anxiety. I feel guilty about putting such a burden on my husband and two children who still live at home.( they are 20 and 23 years of age) I’m not driving at the moment, just mostly at home. I’m not working, I’m not sure if that is good or bad, bad for being alone to think too much. 

You seem to have really good support from all of moderators who have posted on your page, they all seem so helpful and encouraging. We have to take things just one day at a time, it’s so difficult, I truly know. My withdrawal started about two months ago, and it’s by the worst two months of my life. You’ll get through this, we both will. Your getting sleep and that’s so wonderful, put that in your gratitude journal daily, I’m envious.😊 I live in Canada, my mother is French Canadian and my father was from Glasgow, Scotland, so my ethnic background is European, too bad my mother never taught me French, lol. Well I need to take out my dogs for a short walk, you will get through this and I’ll follow your thread. I haven’t posted much in this forum because I didn’t feel like I could offer much help, but maybe knowing that someone else out there totally understands and has so much empathy for you is enough. Wishing you well and healing, and yes stay way from the negative information that will send you into more anxiety.

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Boris
5 hours ago, Erell said:

Wow, I did a mistake : I went back To the French forum To say hello To friends and they messed me up : they told me I absolutely had To increase my AD, and that I should Feel in 1 or 2 days that I Feel better. If not, i should switche immediatly with prozac. also told me To take lithium orotathes.

 

Now I think i'll have To not go back on it, and only speak English here! 

I wanted To share this story with you because I find it really strange how huge are the différences between the advices given here and those given on the French forum  : add suppléments as soon as you're feeling bad, always updose an AD if you're feeling bad, systematic switches To prozac...

 

I know that you're right about holding, and I don't plan any change ;) I won't be able To go back on the FrenchForum because it makes me too anxious by saying different things.

 

Take care .

 

I remember this well with some anxiety UK forums I used a long time ago. Stopped using anything online during my Paroxetine withdrawal, made me too anxious.

 

Everyone is making their own journey I guess.

 

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Erell

Quick update of my day :

 

--》 I started this morning To take magnesium citrate  (spirring tthroughough the day ). Seems To be ok.

--》 I had High level of anxiety and despair this morning and this afternoon, since 5pm it decreases.

--》I had my dad on the Phone this morning : I found him supportive even if he doesn't understand. It felt Nice. Also Guilty because I know they are scared and sad. But, it is great To know that he Will support me psychologically and financially! I also send him an email with some links from here

I also have To call my boss To see what can be done about work, but I avoidded it all day.

--》 I have been able To Feel motivated To clean m'y flat : I only did a bit, but felt good To be active! My flat is in a pretty bad state...

--》 I also have been able To take a few walks outside, and for that I'm grateful!

--》 I still have To work on acceptance  : everytime I think about next few months, next waves, not being able To work next months...it increases violently my anxiety and despair!

--》 Today Being a bit more active, I noticed I have back pain. However I'm not worried  : I spent so much time in m'y bed!

--》 my appetite is still very low, I  try To force myself and eat a lot of bananas.

 

 

 

To summarise, it was a better day, no doubt! I availed To do relaxation and meditation exercices (when terror hits me I just can't). Can't say I Feel good, but can say it is wonderful To Feel the anxiety decreasing !

 

I'm going To read carefully what you all wrote here Today, but I already wanna thank you warmly !!!!

 

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Sassenach
Posted (edited)

Hi Erell

10 hours ago, Erell said:

have To admitt that I don't see any pattern in my diaries

 

There is a pattern as follows:

Because of the changes your CNS was confused.

I confused it further by telling you to drop to 10mgs ( that dose is looking good )

For a couple of days your brain is not sure how to react so you feel better ( honeymoon period )

Your brain then gets into gear and begins undoing the changes made by the meds.

Chaos as the brain decides where to start.

After a few days it gets into its stride and things settle down a little.

Hopefully from there recovery slowly begins.

32 minutes ago, Erell said:

everytime I think about next few months, next waves, not being able To work next months...it increases violently my anxiety and despair!

This will improve as you will begin to accept your situation, it happens naturally for most of us.

32 minutes ago, Erell said:

》I had my dad on the Phone this morning : I found him supportive even if he doesn't understand. It felt Nice. Also Guilty because I know they are scared and sad. But, it is great To know that he Will support me psychologically and financially! I also send him an email with some links from here

This really great news on two fronts.

First it means you have great support and that cannot be underestimated.

Second, I am sure you do not wish to accept financial help but will help keep your situation stable if necessary if it there.

 

It is good you have had a better day.

 

You need a good sleep tonight.

If you have a bath take a nice relaxing one, or a hot shower.

Read but no TV after 8pm.

Phone off at 8pm.

Sorry to be so long getting to you but could see you posting to others, which I knew was a good sign.

 

Sleep well

 

 

Edited by Sassenach
missed out info

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Erell

@Guilietta : thank you for all this tools. Everytime I Feel anxiety decreases a bit, I try différent tools. Yesterday night it was : lullaby and sudoku 😉

Thank you for all your precious tools!

I really admire you for your acceptance! 

 

@Bigbird : welcome here! I'm going To read your thread ! 

I'm really sorry that you're going through a rough time. Yes we have to truly believe we Will heal, and stay positive  :) 

 

@Boris : yes I actually think I'm gonna avoid the French forum  : all they said  To me were in contradiction with the advices here, and it makes me full of doubts and anxiety! 

 

Evening in France, I wish you all a sweet day or night! :)

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Erell

@Sassenach : don't be sorry, of course you have your life ;)

And as you said, when I write on other threads it means I Feel better ;)

 

1. I'm not sure I understand the honeymoon time : was it last week when I felt better? Or it is now?

 

2.you're totally right, I should stop the Phone earlyer. Anxiety makes me obsessed and I spend too much time here trying To find réassurance.

 

It always gives me comfort To read you, thank you!

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Sassenach
3 minutes ago, Erell said:

1. I'm not sure I understand the honeymoon time : was it last week when I felt better?

It was last week after dose change.

" honeymoon " because it feels better before it gets worse again then levels out as now.

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Erell

Thank you for your explainations! 

Now it is time To off the Phone ;)

 

Wish you a good evening Sass!

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Rhiannon
22 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Stop overanalysing.

Stop using the phone, take it to bed to use in the morning if necessary.

Relax before bed.

 

Good night

 

Sas

I wish there was a "like" button here 🙂

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Guilietta
3 hours ago, Erell said:

2.you're totally right, I should stop the Phone earlyer. Anxiety makes me obsessed and I spend too much time here trying To find réassurance.

 

Hello Erell,

 

A few bits about good sleep practice:

 

Turn the phone off by 8 pm? and don't use your computer or ipad if you have one after 7 pm and no later than 7.30 pm.

  • Even if you use bluel-light filter glasses - the thinking/analyzing, etc. is very activating. When I am on the computer past 7 -7.30 my insomnia is much worse.

From 6 pm on - focus on positive thoughts. Our brains remember what we think of the last 2-3 hours we are awake. This is time to be grateful and do relaxation exercises that you have (for example). 

 

I find that the information on WD and our difficulties to be very anxiety-provoking also.     I need to limit my time online to help reduce my overall anxiety until I learn much better coping skills.  

 

@Rhiannon@Sassenach@Erell

 

Why does our brain create anxiety when we are online?

Even though anxiety/fear is just what our brains are creating  - and there is no physical danger from being online on SA - why does this happen?

And how can we problem solve so we can learn new things on the site and support others?

 

Giuilietta

 

 

 

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Erell

Hi @Guilietta !

 

Why does our brain create anxiety here ? To me there are several reasons, and maybe there are différent for everyone  :

 

- we already are anxious, and we search réassurance. Here, we learn a lot of precious things, but also that there is a very large part of unknown : because there is a lack of studies,  because every Wd is individual,...

I think this unknown part creates anxiety because all we wanna hear is : don't worry,  tomorrow Will be great ! But nobody can tell us that.

- in my case, having be given other advices on the FrenchForum created a lot of anxiety. Because then my mind was wildly open To doubt...

i think we spend a lot of time here To read and read again all the information, To fight the doubt. Am I really doing the good thing ?

- and we Feel lonely  : because we are isolated, because nobody else really understand. 

We are also desperate about it and wanna be in relation with others! And we make it here. It is normal. But, here, there are a lot of people who suffers, and negativity. So even if it is good To be talking To people, it might also create anxiety. Plus, talkings here are about WD, and it's logical.  But it also means that we get obsessed by the subject.

Feel free To mp me, we could talk about everything else ;)

 

That is the reason why I admire the mods: they are dealing with their anxiety while taking care of ours 😮 I hope that one day I'll be able To help others like they do! But for now, I know I can't. 

 

 

In my case, I know I spend too much time here. But I also know that when I'm feeling better I'm able To spend less time here, or just To write something Nice To others.

So I try To be gentle with myself : I'm actually learning a lot of new things, so it's ok if I Feel the need To read and read again ;) plus the English thing...plus the 'I wanna understand everything or it makes me crazy ' thing ;)

 

So, be gentle with yourself too :)

 

 

As Sass would say, for now stop overanalysing and go To bed 😄 have a good night sweet Guilietta!

 

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Erell

Tuesday 1st Oct / Day 7 on 10mg Paroxetine  / day 1 on magnésium citrate.

 

6am woke up anxious (7)

8 am 10mg Paroxetine 

10.50 am short walk in the neighborhood

12h phonecall with dad, then a short walk outside 

All the day : High anxiety 7 / despair: 7

But I also managed To clean a bit my flat and stayed out of bed.

 

5pm anxiety decreases (5), so does despair (4). It Will decrease then for the  rest of the day..

8pm : too tired, go To bed with a book and lullaby.

10.30 pm anxiety is at 2 😮😊

11.30 pm was trying To sleep but High restlessness in legs, really high. Put soap in my bed like I read on this forum..couldn't tell if it worked!

I don't know when I fell asleep : between midnight and 1am.  Also, don't know if I woke up in the night, I have the feeling that I did, but couldn't tell.

 

This morning  : woke up at 6.30 am, anxious at 6.

 

 

--》 I know it is too early in the process To celebrate,  but yesterday evening was so great..best evening in a month ! I even had a few tears of relief. 

Thanks To all of you for this precious moment! 

--》Yesterday I did not manage To eat a lot. Essentially bananas, and a pièce of fish. 

--》 Yesterday evening, I felt a lot of aches in my body, like if I had a marathon before. But not worried : my muscles have been so tense during this month!

--》 restlessness in legs Being so hard was new To me : I ddon't know if magnésium is related, I'm gonna observe Today.

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Sassenach

Good morning

I see you have done the morning hospital rounds already doctor. 😁.

Hopefully that means you are feeling a little better this morning.

Did your sleep improve last night?

 

Sass

 

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Erell

Hi Sass!

 

Yes, I'm feeling better! Still very anxious but less than yesterday! And the memory of my evening is so sweet 😊

 

I struggled To fall asleep because of strong restlessness in legs,  but I think I might have slept 5hours, and a bit deeper.

 

Today morning is rainy and cold, so I Feel less Guilty about staying in bed ;)

 

I was thinking of you and looking at pictures of Scotland on Google...definitely, what a bonny Scotland!

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