Vegalia: Escitalopram and Lysanxia ( prazepam)

[Vegalia]

4 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

Apologies for all the questions, we are checking everything to try and see why you are not improving.

 

Did you ask the doctor about checking Serotonin levels?

 

No, because I was not sûre of the test, not sûre to have all anderstand. I asked précisions about this test more days ago.

 

The anxiety makes me crazy....

 

Vega

[Vegalia]

Quote

 

Can you tell me please more about the examen with sérotonine please?

I'm not sûre to have all understand.

 

Thank you So much.

 

Vega.

 

 

 

 

8 october.

 

Is it with proteine C réactive ?

 

Vega

Edited October 18, 2019 by Vegalia

[rola]

16 minutes ago, Vegalia said:

 

8 octobre.

 

Vega

salut vega 

Comment on mesure la sérotonine?

Pour évaluer les taux de sérotonine on dose dans le sang, les urines ou le liquide cérébro-spinal la quantité de 5HIAA (acide 5-hydroxyindolacétique), un produit de dégradation de la sérotonine.

mais je sais pas si on le fait en france 

courage je sais que c 'est dur 

je t 'embrasse 

[Vegalia]

Salut Rola,

 

Oui j'avais lu ça merci.

 

Tu es vraiment gentille avec moi.

 

I saw this too  @Sassenach

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306453016310526

 

Vega

[rola]

 

13 minutes ago, Vegalia said:

Salut Rola,

 

Oui j'avais lu ça merci.

 

Tu es vraiment gentille avec moi.

 

J'ai aussi vu ça  @Sassenach

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306453016310526

 

Vega

 

it's normal we're all going through the same thing😘

[Shep]

22 hours ago, Vegalia said:

After begining  escitalopram nervosity increased very fast.

 

Do you think you had an adverse reaction when you first took escitalopram? 

[Vegalia]

Hello Shep,

 

1 hour ago, Shep said:

 

Do you think you had an adverse reaction when you first took escitalopram? 

 

I think I have had an adverse réaction with the 3 DA : I feeled me very nervous with "thérapeutique doses"

With 25 mg sertraline it was ok until 2 Month, but after nervosity and agitation Côme back slowly.

 

The équivalences between sertraline and escitalopram are not accurate.

 

Approximate equivalent dosages of antidepressants:
Citalopram 20 mg
Escitalopram 5-10 mg
Fluvoxamine 100 mg
Fluoxetine 20 mg
Paroxetine 20 mg
Sertraline 50-75 mg

Venlafaxine 75 mg

 

Is possible I had too much escitalopram on start. That is what I thought, because the 2 first days I feeled good but after nervosity and agitation increased very fast and very hard. I wondered me if I should Start with 4 mg escitalopram, but it was advice to me to Start with 5.

I wonder me if my digestive système tolerate escitalopram.

 

I have read too that Altostrata sayed that to change an DA could be very bad and induce sévère symptôms.

Today I could support my situation relatively easier if anxiety was 5 and not 9 this morning, now anxiety is to 7-8, less but hard! 

 

Benzo can make anxiety too and I have increased my doses 3 weeks ago.

 

Thank you @Shep

 

Vega

 

[Erell]

29 july 2018: xanax 0,125 x 2 

12 august: xanax 0,25 x 2 

28 august :  veratran 5x2

From 4 october to 24 october :Prazepam  : from  10 drops ,10 drops ,15 drops  to 7drops ,7 drops,13 drops

25 october :Prazepam 20 drops,20 drops,20 drops (stabilisation)

21 november : did a 5% tapper : 19 drops x3  : ( I held there because of Ad's adverse reactions.)

From  10 december to 18 february 2019 : did a 2% tapper every 21 days To  avoid benzo tolerancy : was at  17,52 dropsx3 on 18 February  

From 19 february to 30 march : Prazepam :15,66 drops x3: tappered benzo because it overdrugged me, and tappered Ad (5% then 3%)

 From 31 march to 11 may : tappered Prazepam 2℅ every 21 days :  arrived at 15,04 dropsx3

From 12 may to 31 july:  did a 3% tapper of Prazepam every 7 days, then a 5% taper every 8 days. Then I held at 10.29 dropsx3.

tappered again because I stopped tappering the AD.

 From 1 August to 26 septembre :  did a 2% taper of Prazepam every 21 days, and did two cuts of 3% every 7 days because I felt overdrugged  ( maybe I misinterprated the fact that I was really tired?) 9,29x3 -

27 september : 9,50

9th Oct Prazepam 4,75 mg 3 times a day, at 9 a.m., 3 p.m., and 9 p.m
 

 

 

 

I hope this will help you : Vegalia and I come from the same French Forum. On this forum, there are some rules commonly accepted about benzo WD :

- the theory of benzo tolerancy is accepted : one rule is to tapper regularly to not enter in tolerancy. The advices are to taper 3% every 7 days or 5% every 8 days.

Also, to avoid benzo tolerancy, it is advised to not take the same benzo dose more than 3 weeks (that explains the 21 days in Vegalia's signature)

 

- on this forum, it is also advised to systematically switch your short half-life benzo for a long half-time benzo : that is why Vegalia stopped Xanax to take Prazepam.

 

There are many differences in the advices given here and those given on the french forum : that may be why it is sometimes difficult to understand our journeys.

 

Don't hesitate to ask me if you need  : I would be really pleased to help you help Vegalia !

[Sassenach]

Please see Erell,s post above.

Vega if you can enter the miligram equivalent for each date instead of drops or number of pills it would save me a lot of time.

 

 

[Vegalia]

Thanks @Erell

 

J'aurais pu le faire : So nice !

 

But : I had clotiazepam (veratran) half- live 4 h 1 month 5 mg x 2 before prazepam ( Lysanxia)

5 mg clotiazepam = 0,50 mg xanax and 15 mg prazepam ( 30 drops Lysanxia)

 

Je suis arrivée sur le forum après avoir tenté 3 fois de réduire les benzo.

Xanax : 0,125 mg x 2 : au bout de 10 jours j'en ai pas pris pendant 1 jour j'étais bien. Le lendemain angoisses horribles : je reprends 0,125 x 2 et je mets une semaine à m'en remettre.

A l'hôpital on l'augmente à 0,25 x 2 bien que je n'avais plus d'angoisses.

20 août : je sors de l'hôpital, on me dit d'en prendre si besoin. Alors je prends pas les 0,25 du matin, je suis un peu angoissée mais tiens jusqu'au soir. Le lendemain, angoisses ++ je reprends 0,25 x2

28 août : j'arrive chez le psychiatre : manque et angoisses toujours terribles. = veratran 5 mg x2  + AD : angoisses disparues le lendemain.

12 september : le psychiatre me dit que je peux réduire veratran car l'AD fait effet ( effexor). Je ne connaissais pas les équivalences : je prends deux jour 2,5 mg matin et 5 mg soir. 3eme jour anxiété terrible encore alors je reprends 5 mgx2.

16 september, j'arrive sur le forum français : grosse anxiété, en manque de veratran. 

On m'a proposé le Lysanxia car veratran (clotiazepam) 1/2 vie de 4 h et je suis en manque.

J'ai été en manque et très angoissée jusqu'à avoir pris Lysanxia. J'ai mis du temps à en obtenir.

Mais à ce moment là je m'étais éloignée du forum car la personne qui s'occupait de moi ne voulait pas prendre en compte mes problèmes avec l'AD. J'ai pris ce que m'a recommandé ma nouvelle psychiatre  sans protocole de substitution 10,10,15. J'étais complètement shootée. Alors j'ai réduit comme elle m'a dit, même un peu moins vite. Pendant 2 semaines ça allait puis j'ai eu beaucoup de symptômes physiques douloureux. AD ou benzo? Mystère.

J'ai alors suivi les recommandations du forum 20 gouttes x 3... (10 mg x3)

 

Quelle histoire. ^^ 

 

Quelques personnes sur le forum servent directement rare mais ça arrive : xanax.

Mais veratran 1/2 vie très courte et j'étais en manque...

 

Thank you So much.

 

Vega

 

 

[Vegalia]

21 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

Please see Erell,s post above.

Vega if you can enter the miligram equivalent for each date instead of drops or number of pills it would save me a lot of time.

 

 

Ok , I make it mater, I must dîner

 

Thanks

 

Vega

[Altostrata]

23 hours ago, Vegalia said:

8.30 am :  breakfast and  escitalopram1,5 mg 

9 am : prazepam 4,75 mg, dépression : 4 anxiety 4

 

Vegalia, why are you taking prazepam shortly after taking escilatopram? Taking the two drugs at approximately the same time obscures potential adverse reactions from either.

 

 

[Vegalia]

29 july 2018: xanax 0,125 x 2 

12 august: xanax 0,25 x 2 

28 august :  veratran (clotiazepam) 5 mgx2

From 4 october to 24 october :Prazepam (liquid) : from  5 mg ,5 mg , 7,5 mg  to 3,5 mg ,3,5 mg, 6,5 mg

25 october :Prazepam 10 mg, 10 mg, 10 mg (stabilisation)

21 november : did a 5% tapper : 9,5  mg x3  : ( I held there because of Ad's adverse reactions.)

From  10 december to 18 february 2019 : did a 2% tapper every 21 days To  avoid benzo tolerancy : was at  8,75 mgx3 on 18 February  

From 19 february to 30 march : Prazepam :7,83 mg x3: tappered benzo because it overdrugged me, and tappered Ad (5% then 3%)

 From 31 march to 11 may : tappered Prazepam 2℅ every 21 days :  arrived at 7,53 mgx3

From 12 may to 31 july:  did a 3% tapper of Prazepam every 7 days, then a 5% taper every 8 days. Then I held at 5,145 mgx3.

tappered again because I stopped tappering the AD.

 From 1 August to 26 septembre :  did a 2% taper of Prazepam every 21 days, and did two cuts of 3% every 7 days because I felt overdrugged  ( maybe I misinterprated the fact that I was really tired?) 4,645 mgx3 -

27 september : 4,75 mgx3

9th Oct Prazepam 4,75 mg 3 times a day, at 9 a.m., 3 p.m., and 9 p.m
 

[Vegalia]

10 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Vegalia, why are you taking prazepam shortly after taking escilatopram? Taking the two drugs at approximately the same time obscures potential adverse reactions from either.

 

 

 Hello Altostrata,

 

It was for not wake up too early...and to take prazepam Every 6 hours and not too late on evening.

8 am were best for antidépressant?

 

I take a lot of compléments before 8.30 am too, I know it isn't good...

 

Thank you

 

Vega

 

 

[Vegalia]

14 minutes ago, Vegalia said:

29 july 2018: xanax 0,125 x 2 

12 august: xanax 0,25 x 2 

28 august :  veratran (clotiazepam) 5 mgx2

From 4 october to 24 october :Prazepam (liquid) : from  5 mg ,5 mg , 7,5 mg  to 3,5 mg ,3,5 mg, 6,5 mg

25 october :Prazepam 10 mg, 10 mg, 10 mg (stabilisation)

21 november : did a 5% tapper : 9,5  mg x3  : ( I held there because of Ad's adverse reactions.)

From  10 december to 18 february 2019 : did a 2% tapper every 21 days To  avoid benzo tolerancy : was at  8,75 mgx3 on 18 February  

From 19 february to 30 march : Prazepam :7,83 mg x3: tappered benzo because it overdrugged me, and tappered Ad (5% then 3%)

 From 31 march to 11 may : tappered Prazepam 2℅ every 21 days :  arrived at 7,53 mgx3

From 12 may to 31 july:  did a 3% tapper of Prazepam every 7 days, then a 5% taper every 8 days. Then I held at 5,145 mgx3.: tappered again because I stopped tappering the AD.

 From 1 August to 26 septembre :  did a 2% taper of Prazepam every 21 days, and did two cuts of 3% every 7 days because I felt overdrugged  ( maybe I misinterprated the fact that I was really tired?) 4,645 mgx3 -

27 september : 4,75 mgx3

9th Oct Prazepam 4,75 mg 3 times a day, at 9 a.m., 3 p.m., and 9 p.m
 

 

[Vegalia]

18 october

 

sleep for 11.30 pm to 6. am : but bad sleep with several wakes 1 am.  3.30  am : bowel trouble to 4.30 am and drowsiness until 6 am.

woke with hard nausea. Back and head pain but not severe, bruxism. Jaw pain, neck pain, arms and back burning, unplaisant spine and nose sensations : but not very strong. I'am very cold.

8. 15 am : homéopathy, probiotics, lihium citrate, anxiety 6 dépression 4

8.30 am : breakfast and  escitalopram1,5 mg 

9 am : prazepam 4,75 mg, dépression : 4 anxiety 8

10 am : dépression 4, anxiety 9, the pains reduce

12.30 : homeopathy, eat, anxiety 7-8

2 PM : go to the bakery and pharmacy with my car (5 km) : tired, slight déréalisation.

3 PM : prazepam 4,75 mg 

3.30 PM : in bedroom read a book : dépression : 4, anxiety 4 !

5.30 pm: dépression 4, anxiety 7

7.45 pm homéopathy, diner: dépression 5, anxiety 4, feel me bad as if I was going to have a fainting with umplaisant sensation in back, spine and head, zap, back very contractéd,  little réduction after 2 hours but very tired, I feel me weak.

9 PM prazepam 4,75 mg : dépression 5 : anxiety 3

11.30 pm : homeopathy and L-tryptophane 220 mg

 

*****

nausea : all day until 9 pm, severe

Back muscles contracted : very hard.

Painfull legs : stable

Equilibrium problems : not a lot

visual problems : not a lot

Bruxism : 4

Cold  : juste on morning

sensibility to light and noises  : not a lot

small difficulties for speech  : no

No sweat 

diarrhea

pain in pancrea

 

 

Today, the most difficult was anxiety, weak sensations, umpleasant sensations i'm back, spine and head.

 

Thanks a lot for all people who are helping me. I know that it takes time and there is a lot to do with the forum. I'm very Grateful.

 

Vega

 

[Frenchgirl]

Salut Vega

How are you doing?

I think i Will send you a pm.

Hope you are feeling better soon.

Good night.

Frenchie.

[Vegalia]

Hi @Frenchgirl,

 

Thank you.

MP quand tu veux. Pas de souci. 

Bisous

 

Vega.

 

Hi @Sassenach

 

After reading what Altostrata Sayed me : that I took prazepam very shortly after escitalopram, I took this morning :

 

8.30 am escitalopram and 9.30 am prazepam.

 

Have a good day.

 

Vega

[Sassenach]

Hi Vega

 

Good job on your Benzo history, much easier for us to understand now.

How are you feeling today?

I understand you are afraid of making matters worse but Alto and Shep are the best.

Between them they have more knowledge of withdrawal from these drugs than doctors or psychs.

They would never recommend anything they did not believe would help.

Noone knows everything but they are the best at what they do.

 

Bon nout et dormez bien.

Demain est un meilleur jour😎

 

Sass

[Vegalia]

Hi Sass,

 

Happy if my benzo history is good.

 

I must say that I am always dépressive but less since several days and that is a good point.

Other hard symptôms but I try to be positive as often is possible.

 

I have help and support hère : You, Altostrata, Shep and the french team. lol

 

Thank you So much.

 

Good nigth Sass.

 

Vega.

[Vegalia]

19 october

 

sleep for 12 to 6. am : and drowsiness until 8 am.

woke with nausea. Back and head pain but not severe, bruxism. Jaw pain, neck pain, arms and back burning, unplaisant spine and nose sensations. Sweat and after I'am very cold.

8. 15 am : homéopathy, probiotics, lihium citrate, anxiety 4 dépression 4

8.30 am : breakfast and  escitalopram1,5 mg 

9. 30 am : prazepam 4,75 mg, dépression : 4 anxiety 6

10 am : dépression 4, anxiety 7, the pains reduce

12.30 : homeopathy, eat, anxiety 7, head pain

3.30 PM : prazepam 4,75 mg dépression : 4, anxiety 4 , feel me weak, umplaisant sensation in back, spine and head, zap, back very contractéd '. It's 9 pm and I have again.

7.45 pm homéopathy, diner: dépression 5, anxiety 4

9.30 PM prazepam 4,75 mg : dépression 4, anxiety 3

11.30 pm : homeopathy and L-tryptophane 220 mg

 

*****

nausea : all day until 9 pm, severe

Back muscles contracted : very hard.

Painfull legs : slight

Equilibrium problems : 4

visual problems : not a lot

Bruxism : 4

Cold  : juste on morning

sensibility to light and noises  : increase

small difficulties for speech  : no

diarrhea

pain in pancrea

No hypnagogic hallucinations

 

Vega

[Vegalia]

Hi,

 

About my schedule of drugs. I think to change gradualy.

I thought yesterday evening that we will have schedule change of 1 hour in France in one week... At 3 am next sunday it will be 2 am.

 

Have a good day

 

Vega 

 

 

[Vegalia]

16 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Hi Vega

 

Good job on your Benzo history, much easier for us to understand now.

How are you feeling today?

I understand you are afraid of making matters worse but Alto and Shep are the best.

Between them they have more knowledge of withdrawal from these drugs than doctors or psychs.

They would never recommend anything they did not believe would help.

Noone knows everything but they are the best at what they do.

 

Bon nout et dormez bien.

Demain est un meilleur jour😎

 

Sass

 Hi, 

 

I know but, I wonder me if to increase a little escitalopram  should be good for me and more I'm waiting, less are the chance that it will work? Correct?

My symptoms are very, very hard and numerous , sometimes like an agony. I considere me now a dependant woman ; dépendant = I have lost autonomy. and my priority is to not return to hospital. . Sorry to say that.

 

I know well that you, Altostrata and Shep can't doing miracles, have a lot to do in this forum and first of all your  personnal life, that's why I'm waiting and  it's normal. But I can't help me to be affraid to wait.

 

For the benzo. I wished to taper minimal 1%/ month : 4,70 mg x3, 4,655 mgx3 etc...

 

And about benzo, I read some strange things : dissolve tabletts in vodka ???

On benzo buddies, it is advices, il I have anderstand to never increase a dose if someone is bad but to wait, and wait..

I find it terrifiant ! 

The french méthod is more gentle than Asthon méthod and more dégressive,  I think in the same spirit as tapering AD  of Brassmonkey, in sens that 10% is too brutal for some people.

I dont know if you approuve the méthod of benzo buddies, but this méthod make me affraid.

 

Thanks 

 

Vega.

 

[Shep]

 

5 hours ago, Vegalia said:

And about benzo, I read some strange things : dissolve tabletts in vodka ???

On benzo buddies, it is advices, il I have anderstand to never increase a dose if someone is bad but to wait, and wait..

I find it terrifiant ! 

The french méthod is more gentle than Asthon méthod and more dégressive,  I think in the same spirit as tapering AD  of Brassmonkey, in sens that 10% is too brutal for some people.

I dont know if you approuve the méthod of benzo buddies, but this méthod make me affraid.

 

Some benzos don't dissolve easily in water, but will dissolve in alcohol. That's why they use Vodka to taper.  But many people do well without using vodka, just water. The important thing is to be consistent and use the same exact method each time. 

 

We don't use the Ashton method here. It's too fast. You are right about the danger of this method. 

 

The rule we go by for increasing a dose is to do it within 2 - 4 weeks of the last decrease. An updose can be very helpful for some people. Benzo Buddies' method is out of date. I understand your fear of Benzo Buddies' method. 

 

Alto mentioned spacing out your benzo before making any other adjustments. What do you think about taking it twice a day instead of three times a day? 

 

I need to get more information from Alto regarding the exact times, but I wanted to touch base with you to see if you would be willing to make this change. You could either evenly space it out for morning or night or you get take the majority of it at night for sleep. Please post your thoughts. 

 

And then Alto wants to address the escitalopram once the benzo is spaced out to twice a day. 

[Vegalia]

Hello @Shep,

 

Nice to you to answer me on sunday.

 

I thougt take escitalopram on 8.30 am and prazepam 9.30 am. That's I have made today.

 

I'm sorry but I'm affraid to have benzo twice a day for yet. Is a big change and I have a lot, lot of symptôms. Why do you think it will be better for me?

 

I know a woman who is tapering prazepam. She had  3 x a day and it was very hard : she couldn't do more than 1,5%/7 days. And as she was nearly at the same doses of me she took twice and not three and since she feel better.

 

But I'm affraid to take a risk again. The worse problèm seems to be for me AD and not benzo.

However, I would like to know your méthod for 3 to 2 with 2 same doses, please.

 

I want to précise that the 4 first weeks I took Venlafaxine :

10.30 am clotiazepam, 7.30 pm Venlafaxine, 10.30 pm clotiazepam. And...I was nervous after 2 weeks of Venlafaxine and very nervous and agitated after 3 weeks. And after I reduced at 37,5 mg, after 3 weeks, nervosity and agitation disappered very fast.

 

Sorry I have impression to be very painful (pénible, agaçante). I dont like that. 

 

Thank you Shep

 

Vega

[Sassenach]

Hi Vega

 

I understand you are frightened and and hurting a lot.

Over the last few months I have watched Shep and Alto help members to change the times they take meds.

They will do it very slowly, and we will monitor you which is why we have your diary.

I am still learning but I have watched members improve and see real progress.

It is only the beginning but a good start.

7 hours ago, Vegalia said:

I wonder me if to increase a little escitalopram  should be good for me

 

You are so sensitive to the meds that an increase may well make you worse.

7 hours ago, Vegalia said:

less are the chance that it will work? Correct?

That is not correct, you are already taking Escitalopram, the time period only matters for reinstatement if you have stopped the drug.

You have not done that.

Our only interest is to help you get better.

 

Sass

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alto and Shep are trying to get you to a point where you can stabilise and eventually feel well enough to do without drugs.

 

[Vegalia]

Hi Sass,

 

Thank you for your message.

 

I not have a lot of expérience but you know since more than one year, I make a lot if research of benzo and AD.

I help the others on the french forum. I say this with a lot of modesty.

 

And when I have made error is when I dont have hear my feelings and my prudence but the others.

Expérience for help is very important, but feelings of the person too.

 

The symptôms I have are induced by a surdose with change AD and to fast taper. I know symptôms of AD reducing and nos they are too hard : a nightmarre. I feel me not overdosed, on the contrary. That's my feelings.

 

Fingers crosses.

 

Good evening

 

Vega

[Vegalia]

20 october

 

I sleep for 12 to 6. am : and drowsiness until 8 am.

woke with nausea. Back and head pain, bruxism. Jaw pain, neck pain, arms and back burning, unplaisant spine and nose sensations. Sweat and after I'am very cold.

8. 15 am : homéopathy,  lihium citrate, anxiety 4 dépression 4

8.30 am : breakfast and  escitalopram1,5 mg 

9. 30 am : prazepam 4,75 mg, dépression : 5 anxiety 4

10 am : dépression 4, anxiety 4, head pain and brain zap are sévère, the other pains not reduce a lot

I go to the bed room in dark. Tap of 20 mn

1.30 pm : probiotics : homeopathy, eat, anxiety 4, dépression 5. Take paracétamol 1 g.

3.30 PM : prazepam 4,75 mg  : go back to the bedroom in dark : to hard head pain and zap I dont wanted to slep but I sleep + /- 30 mn. A noise wake me in panic. Noises make me jump, as if their intensity was multiplied and I am in panic during one hour. 

7.45 pm homéopathy, diner: dépression 5, anxiety 4, tinnitus, light makes me eyes pain

8.15 pm : go back to bedroom in dark. I'm using my phone with sunglasses.

9.30 PM prazepam 4,75 mg 

11.30 pm : homeopathy and L-tryptophane 220 mg

 

*****

nausea : am morning

Back muscles contracted : very hard.

Painfull legs : slight

Equilibrium problems : 4

visual problems : increased

Bruxism : 4

Cold  : juste on morning

sensibility to light and noises  : hard

small difficulties for speech  : no

diarrhea

pain in pancrea

1 hypnagogic hallucination

 

Today my physical symptôms are very hard : head pain and burning, umplaisant sensation and pain in spine, nose, back, jaw, neck, all very very hard as a torture.

Something curious : This 2 days who I have had terrible pains in head, I was less anxious, except the moment of panic with noises during one hour today.

I spent almost all the day in dark in my bed in reason of my hard physical symptôms. It's possible that I forger to write sôme of them, because I have a lot.

 

I want to thank all people who are helping me, I'm very Grateful but affraid. Sorry.

 

Vega.

 

[Shep]

5 hours ago, Vegalia said:

I'm sorry but I'm affraid to have benzo twice a day for yet. Is a big change and I have a lot, lot of symptôms. Why do you think it will be better for me?

 

Yes, this may help. By taking the benzo twice a day, you can separate the antidepressant from the benzo. Please see Alto's comment here:

 

On 10/18/2019 at 2:23 PM, Altostrata said:

Vegalia, why are you taking prazepam shortly after taking escilatopram? Taking the two drugs at approximately the same time obscures potential adverse reactions from either.

 

What do you think about this schedule I've written below? The escitalopram will go from 8:30 am to noon and the prazepam will be at 9:30 am and 9:30 pm, with a bigger dose at night for sleep. 

 

If you decide to do this, you would first move the prazepam slowly, one hour a day, before moving the antidepressant. So you would gradually move your 3:30 pm prazepam dose one hour a day until it is at 9:30 pm. 

 

Please post your thoughts on this. 

 

8. 15 am : homéopathy, probiotics, lihium citrate

9. 30 am : prazepam 4.75 mg

noon - escitalopram1.5 mg 

12.30 : homeopathy

7.45 pm homéopathy,

9.30 PM prazepam 9.5 mg

11.30 pm : homeopathy and L-tryptophane 220 mg

[Vegalia]

7 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Yes, this may help. By taking the benzo twice a day, you can separate the antidepressant from the benzo. Please see Alto's comment here:

 

 

Hello Shep,

 

Yes I have read it, thats why I take since 3 days prazepam at 9.30 am and not 9am. Is too shortly again? 

 

23 hours ago, Vegalia said:

Hi,

 

About my schedule of drugs. I think to change gradualy.

I thought yesterday evening that we will have schedule change of 1 hour in France in one week... At 3 am next sunday it will be 2 am.

 

So for prazepam I thought do :

Now : 7.30 am GTM (9.30 am in France)

Sunday : 8 am GTM (9 am in France) 

Next sunday : 8.30 am GTM (9.30 am in France)

And the same for other doses.

 

7 hours ago, Shep said:

 

What do you think about this schedule I've written below? The escitalopram will go from 8:30 am to noon and the prazepam will be at 9:30 am and 9:30 pm, with a bigger dose at night for sleep. 

 

If you decide to do this, you would first move the prazepam slowly, one hour a day, before moving the antidepressant. So you would gradually move your 3:30 pm prazepam dose one hour a day until it is at 9:30 pm. 

 

Please post your thoughts on this. 

 

8. 15 am : homéopathy, probiotics, lihium citrate

9. 30 am : prazepam 4.75 mg

noon - escitalopram1.5 mg 

12.30 : homeopathy

7.45 pm homéopathy,

9.30 PM prazepam 9.5 mg

11.30 pm : homeopathy and L-tryptophane 220 mg

 

13 hours ago, Vegalia said:

Hello @Shep,

 

Nice to you to answer me on sunday.

 

I thougt take escitalopram on 8.30 am and prazepam 9.30 am. That's I have made today.

 

I'm sorry but I'm affraid to have benzo twice a day for yet. Is a big change and I have a lot, lot of symptôms. Why do you think it will be better for me?

 

But I'm affraid to take a risk again. The worse problèm seems to be for me AD and not benzo.

However, I would like to know your méthod for 3 to 2 with 2 same doses, please.

 

I want to précise that the 4 first weeks I took Venlafaxine :

10.30 am clotiazepam, 7.30 pm Venlafaxine, 10.30 pm clotiazepam. And...I was nervous after 2 weeks of Venlafaxine and very nervous and agitated after 3 weeks. And after I reduced at 37,5 mg, after 3 weeks, nervosity and agitation disappered very fast.

 

Sorry I have impression to be very painful (pénible, agaçante). I dont like that. 

 

Thank you Shep

 

Vega

 

I am very Grateful but I'm affraid with this new shedule because my nervous système has been hard destablized with the change of antidépressant and too fast taper : 

 

escitalopram15 juillet: 5,20 juillet: 4, 22 juillet: 3,25, 23 juillet: 2,5, 25 juillet: 2, 25 et 8 août: 2, 16 août: 1,75, 20 août: 1,50, 12 septembre: 1,25, 

 

Very, very brutal for my nervous system. 

 

Quote

 

you would first move the prazepam slowly, one hour a day,

 

 

 

It seems me not to be slowly... Sorry to talk about this but in France we mouve not more than 0,5 mg/week  of one dose to the others, and for some people is too hard. The lady I take you about is an exception. She has take risk, it has been great for her, but for me? 

 

Sorry Shep, I'm in panic with thèse 2 doses of prazepam who seems me brutal in my stage, crying a lot. Despeared...:((( My body had for more one years 3 equal doses. 

 

Why not try 1,75 mg escitalopram now ? I feel sinking from day to day. 

 

Thank you for all. But I'm too affraid, affraid to wait again with terrible symptôms I can stand, So hard in intensity that they mâkes me crazy. My life is like hell since 1,5-2 month. 

 

Vega 

[Vegalia]

Sorry and apologies,

 

I try to calm me down.

 

If 8.30 am escitalopram and 9.30 is too shortly shedule again, I préfère just move escitalopram and keep 3 times benzo for yet.

How much should I space at least escitalopram and benzo please?

 

I still refrained from taking 1.75 mg escitalopram again, but my feeling and my AD history tells me that I should do it.

 

Thank you So much.

 

Vega 

 

 

[Vegalia]

21 october

 

I sleep for 11.30 pm to 4.30 am. I feel de asleep again but the alarm rang at 5 am because my companion had to wake up early.

Woke with nausea. Back and head pain, bruxism. Jaw pain, neck pain, unplaisant spine and nose sensations. I'm a little cold.

8. 15 am : homéopathy,  lihium citrate, anxiety 6 dépression 7 panic with what to do with my drugs, affraid to suffer more and more

8.30 am : breakfast and  escitalopram1,5 mg terrible head pain.

9. 30 am : prazepam 4,75 mg, dépression : 6 anxiety 6

10 am : go to bed in darkness, head pain and brain zap are sévère, the other pain reduce. Despear : sayind me : I will stay in bed all day. Nap of 30 mn.

12 :  probiotics : homeopathy, eat a part of cake, anxiety 4, dépression 5. Go to the garden 15 mn.Try to find courage.

3.30 PM : prazepam 4,75 mg  : go back to the bedroom in dark, always sévère head pain and big sensibilité to light and noises. Nap of 1 h. 

6.30 pm : go to the living room. Light, and noises of the aquarium hard to stand. Take my sunglasses.

7.10 pm : take 1 mg paracétamol

7.45 pm homéopathy, diner: dépression 4, anxiety 4 head pain reduce, pains to arm, back, legs increase, burnings.

9.30 PM prazepam 4,75 mg 

11pm : homeopathy and L-tryptophane 220 mg

 

*****

nausea : several tomes a day

Back muscles contracted : middle, in réduction

Painfull legs : very slight only on evening

Equilibrium problems : 3

visual problems : increased

Bruxism : 4

Cold  : juste on morning

sensibility to light and noises  : very hard

small difficulties for speech  : I didn't speach today, Alone in home.

No diarrhea

No pain in pancrea

No hypnagogic hallucination

 

Today I had terrible head pain and sôme zaps.

I spent long time in dark in my bed in reason of my hard head pain and sensibility to light and noises.

This morning I was in panic and despear. I had have a lot of sadness but less anxiety.

 

Tomorrow is another day.^^

 

Vega.

[Vegalia]

Hello @Shep

 

i thought about the schedule :

 

- you want to séparate the 2 drugs to sée the réactions I have with each drug

- With the AD at noon and 2 x prazepam it will be more clear for you

- if I take the AD at noon and not the morning it is possible even if not sûre to have an impact of my sleep. That's why you think of taking more prazepam on evening?

Is it correct or not?

 

What would be  your move plan to 2 equal doses of prazepam ?

1) 9.30 am 4,75 mg, 2,30 pm 2,375 mg, 4.30 pm 2,375 mg, 9.30 pm 4,75 mg

2) 9.30 am 4,75 mg 1.30 pm 2,375 mg, 5.30 pm 2,375 mg, 9.30 pm 4,75 mg

3) 9.30 am 4,75 mg, 12.30 2,375 mg, 6.30 pm 2,375 mg, 9.30 pm 4,75 mg.

4) 9.30 am 4,75 mg, 11.30 am 2,375 mg, 7.30 pm 2,375 mg, 9.30 pm 4,75 mg

5) 9.30 am 4,75 mg, 10.30 am 2,375 mg, 8.30 pm 2,375 mg, 9.30 pm 4,75 mg

6) 9.30 am 7,125 mg, 9.30 pm 7,125 mg ?

 

Maybe I say foolery but I try to anderstand.

 

For my part, I notice that my taper of Sertraline 50 to 25 mg has been sucessfull, with lot of physical symptôms that I have now again but the were more slightly during my taper of sertraline.

During my taper of Sertraline, it was not easy with physical symptôms, but I can stand it. And as soon as I tapered, my physical symptôms reduced, with one week a month who were harder than the others : the most often the third.

I had only physical symptôms. The nervosity fast reduced. I had no anxiety, no dépression ( I have been Never dépressive of my life until +/- 2 month), had a good sleep..

 

The problèm was that I had too much prazepam. It helped me to not be too nervous and agitated when I had the biggest doses of AD, but in the same time, they made me important drowsiness, problèm of concentration and memory.

Early and morning I feeled not nervous, and no drowsiness. 

8.30 am I took AD

9 am I took prazepam

-/+ 9.30 am : a lot of drowsiness

+/- Noon : nervosity, agitation

3. pm I took prazepam

+/- 3.30 pm a lot of drowsiness

+/- 6 pm nervosity, agitation

9.pm took prazepam

10-10.30 pm drowsiness, feeled asleep. 

 

As soon as I tapered sertraline, nervosity dissapered. In the same time I reduced benzo very slowly, but drowsiness increased at the hours I have telling you. That why I make sôme little adaptations of prazepam with no big problèms.

But, drowsiness became harder and harder. 

During april to june who I stoped tapering Sertraline I feeled me good with very, very little physical symptôms. And in the same time I tapered prazepam more fast, but carefull

I recovered memory, I was abble to drive , that I couln't do because of drowsiness and problèmes of concentration,  a little (20 km), drowsiness dissapeared or very slight. My mood were stabilized. As physical symptôms I had only arms pain but in progressive réduction and sometimes head pain but not very hard.

 

But ...in end june I feeled me a little nervous again and it increased slowly.

 

As I told you, I think that dose of escitalopram was too hard for me. At 5 mg nervosity increased very fast. I let me convinced to taper harder as I wanted to, even if I knowed that the réduction effects are coming after long time for me. (Slow métabolism?)

 

And now I hav a lot of symptôms that I know very well for having thèse during my taper of sertraline but the are very very harder. And I have other new symptôms as anxiety and dépression.

At 5 mg I was very nervous, the nervosity has dissapeared since two month, but now I have depression and anxiety  with other symptôms that I knew well for most of thèm during sertraline taper, but the intensy is very very harder as it was, too hard.

 

Sorry to have been so long. But my feelings are really that the problèmes is first of all escitalopram, started with too hard dose and too fast tapered which is on the origine of my hard symptôms. It is maybe possible too that prazepam takes anxiety too : I have increased my dose since one month and I Never had the same dose of prazepam so long time.

 

I'm affraid that if I change schedule and mostly benzo division (more benzo evening than morning), it will be desequilibrate me again. And that's why I think that an little increasing of escitalopram might help me. 

 

That is my point of view, my feelings, but you are the experts.

 

Have a good day. And thank's a lot.

 

Vega 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shep]

1 hour ago, Vegalia said:

I'm affraid that if I change schedule and mostly benzo division (more benzo evening than morning), it will be desequilibrate me again. And that's why I think that an little increasing of escitalopram might help me. 

 

1 hour ago, Vegalia said:

- you want to séparate the 2 drugs to sée the réactions I have with each drug

 

Yes, separating the 2 drugs will be very helpful to see how you are reacting to each drug.

 

I understand you don't wish to change the benzo timing. What do you think of moving the escitalopram? We really need to see how you feel on the escitalopram without the prazepam. 

 

What do you think of the below schedule? You would still have the 3 daily benzo doses, but the escitalopram would be 2.5 hours after the morning benzo and 3.5 hours before the afternoon benzo. 

 

To do this, you would move your escitalopram only one hour per day. 

 

Please post your thoughts on this. 

 

8. 15 am : homéopathy, probiotics, lihium citrate

9. 30 am : prazepam 4.75 mg

noon - escitalopram1.5 mg 

12.30 : homeopathy

3:30 pm - prazepam 4.75 mg

7.45 pm homéopathy,

9.30 PM prazepam 4.75 mg

11.30 pm : homeopathy and L-tryptophane 220 mg

[Vegalia]

38 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

 

Oui, il sera très utile de séparer les 2 médicaments pour voir comment vous réagissez à chaque médicament.

 

Je comprends que vous ne souhaitiez pas changer le timing du benzo. Que pensez-vous de déplacer l'escitalopram? Nous avons vraiment besoin de voir comment vous vous sentez sur l'escitalopram sans prazépam. 

 

Que pensez-vous du calendrier ci-dessous? Vous auriez toujours  les 3 doses quotidiennes de benzo, mais l'escitalopram serait 2,5 heures après le benzo du matin et 3,5 heures avant le benzo de l'après-midi. 

 

Pour ce faire, vous ne déplacez votre escitalopram qu'une heure par jour. 

 

S'il vous plaît envoyer vos pensées à ce sujet. 

 

8. 15 heures: homéopathie,  probiotiques,  citrate de lithium

9. 30 heures: prazépam 4,75 mg 

midi -  escitalopram1,5 mg  

12h30: homéopathie

15h30 -  prazépam 4,75 mg

Homéopathie à 19h45,

9h30 pm prazépam 4,75 mg 

23h30: homéopathie et L-tryptophane  220  mg

Hello Shep,

 

Yes I'm little less affraid with this schedule.

 

Can I stay at 9, 3, 9 for prazepam ? (Remember :hour change in France sunday)

 

Thank you

 

Vega

Edited October 22, 2019 by Vegalia

[Vegalia]

On 10/21/2019 at 7:18 AM, Vegalia said:

Now : 7.30 am GTM (9.30 am in France)

Sunday : 8 am GTM (9 am in France) 

Next sunday : 8.30 am GTM (9.30 am in France)

And the same for other doses.

 

I feel me worse and worse day after day   Can't stand. I feel like I'm dying.

 

Vega