Snorky: Reinstatement of amitriptyline

[Freedom15]

Hi Snorky.

 

This is a list of what i have had as side effects/withdrawl from Amitriptaline over the past 5 years.

I will try to list as much as i can remember.

Altho i managed to reinsate i have had to do alot of reductions over 5 years so i have had to deal with

alot of the symptoms on monthly basis. Its really hard and can be super testing at times.

Just trying to remember that alotof  this stuff is not permanent and trying to just look at dealing with stuff

in a 24 hr period and not for the rest of your life can help.

 

Physical

Tremours

parkinson type movements

numbness over body

pins needles in hands, bottoms feet, across face and lips.

Pain in bottom feet when walking like being on hot coals.

blurry eye sight

dry mouth

gum recession.

hair falling out in clumps

twitching muscles

crawling feeling in body

inabilty to go toilet alot.

sexual issues.

weight gain

insomina at times when taken off meds ( did not sleeep for 3 weeks untill reinstatement ) and on reduction of dose.

Sensetive to sound and light.

Tinnitus

 

Mental

Fear

paranoia

anxiousness

hellucinations

circular thinking

obsessive thinking

aggitation

anger

suicidal ideation

visual snow

slowing cognitive ability

memory loss short and long

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Snorky]

43 minutes ago, Freedom15 said:

Hi Snorky.

 

This is a list of what i have had as side effects/withdrawl from Amitriptaline over the past 5 years.

I will try to list as much as i can remember.

Altho i managed to reinsate i have had to do alot of reductions over 5 years so i have had to deal with

alot of the symptoms on monthly basis. Its really hard and can be super testing at times.

Just trying to remember that alotof  this stuff is not permanent and trying to just look at dealing with stuff

in a 24 hr period and not for the rest of your life can help.

 

Physical

Tremours

parkinson type movements

numbness over body

pins needles in hands, bottoms feet, across face and lips.

Pain in bottom feet when walking like being on hot coals.

blurry eye sight

dry mouth

gum recession.

hair falling out in clumps

twitching muscles

crawling feeling in body

inabilty to go toilet alot.

sexual issues.

weight gain

insomina at times when taken off meds ( did not sleeep for 3 weeks untill reinstatement ) and on reduction of dose.

Sensetive to sound and light.

Tinnitus

 

Mental

Fear

paranoia

anxiousness

hellucinations

circular thinking

obsessive thinking

aggitation

anger

suicidal ideation

visual snow

slowing cognitive ability

memory loss short and long

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks F

 

I can relate to about 90% if your symptoms. The only other ones on the physical list are recent loss of appetite, a constant sort of gnawing feeling in duodenum area while in bed and short stabbing pains in arms and legs (could be your pin pricks?)

 

 However, the one that is most present and most crippling is the mental strain edge thing. It is like an internal pressure that switches on for hours at a time, and creates havoc with thinking and communicating.Also often accompanied by depression and feelings of hopelessness (not always)

 

The thing closest to your “paranoia” is heating “sounds” when trying to sleep. Not voices, sounds, mainly like church bells ringing in the early hours. V disconcerting.

 

 If you ignore my brief reinstatement period (four weeks), which I couldn’t tolerate, then my CT goes back to Sept 10. I’m now concluding that these are all WD and not adverse effects in view of timeline. Went to Doc today for review as in such a bad way, He’s ordered some more bloods on back of pain, tremors and insomnia. Will let you know outcome. 

[Snorky]

Also in last few days twitching on right cheekbone. (Hemifacial pain?)

[Freedom15]

Hi Snorky,

 

I think the thing that you are saying about the crippling mental strain edge thing that is switching on is what we would call a " wave "

 

Not sure if you are aware of the windows and waves of antidepressent discontinuation syndrom and withdrawl.

 

As your CNS is not stable it will go through a non linear process of trying to heal it self.

 

When you are in a window state the symptoms you have will not be so much.

 

When you are in what called a " wave " that is when your CNS is trying to repair itself and when i am in that place its like something

has totally over taken my body and person. It normally peaks with me feeling like i cant do this any more and i am vary aggitated and down.

In the early days back in 2014 thats when i would feel suicidal as well.

 

I have had to learn to live the good days and batten down the hatchs on the " wave " days.

 

How long are you getting between the windows and waves ?

 

There is no set time to how long it takes for each persons CNS to be able to repair itself.

 

 

 

 

[Snorky]

2 hours ago, Freedom15 said:

Hi Snorky,

 

I think the thing that you are saying about the crippling mental strain edge thing that is switching on is what we would call a " wave "

 

Not sure if you are aware of the windows and waves of antidepressent discontinuation syndrom and withdrawl.

 

As your CNS is not stable it will go through a non linear process of trying to heal it self.

 

When you are in a window state the symptoms you have will not be so much.

 

When you are in what called a " wave " that is when your CNS is trying to repair itself and when i am in that place its like something

has totally over taken my body and person. It normally peaks with me feeling like i cant do this any more and i am vary aggitated and down.

In the early days back in 2014 thats when i would feel suicidal as well.

 

I have had to learn to live the good days and batten down the hatchs on the " wave " days.

 

How long are you getting between the windows and waves ?

 

There is no set time to how long it takes for each persons CNS to be able to repair itself.

 

 

 

 

Thanks. Yep, know all about the w and w. My initial query was about the mental anguish as this had carried on for over a week. Ie, not talking about overall time for CNS to heal, just how long for an individual wave to complete. Today I also had v palpable depressive feelings, black mood, overshadowing all attempts at activities etc. I’m also curious whether this is WD or relapse.Ta

[Freedom15]

Hi Snorky,

 

There is no set time for windows or waves to complete.

 

It can be mins,hours,months or years.

 

Symptoms come and go as your CNS trys to repair it self.

 

You can take few steps forwards and then feel like 10 steps back.

 

From reading your posts it would seem like you are in withdrawl and it takes time for your CNS to recover.

 

I cant give any proffesional advice tho only share what my experiance has been over the past 5 years.

 

[Snorky]

52 minutes ago, Freedom15 said:

Hi Snorky,

 

There is no set time for windows or waves to complete.

 

It can be mins,hours,months or years.

 

Symptoms come and go as your CNS trys to repair it self.

 

You can take few steps forwards and then feel like 10 steps back.

 

From reading your posts it would seem like you are in withdrawl and it takes time for your CNS to recover.

 

I cant give any proffesional advice tho only share what my experiance has been over the past 5 years.

 

Hi 

Thanks. I get all that about waves, setbacks etc. My main worry is that all existing symptoms are intensifying, and being added to. Seems to be at odds with waves and windows theory?

[Snorky]

Hi

 

My rapidly deteriorating situation following CT, then reinstatement from amitriptyline) is covered in intro section. (Also has some helpful pms, so thanks for those) 

 

Gist:

 

Been off since Sept. 

Now experiencing massive deterioration of all physical and mental symptoms.

This culminating in worst depression you can imagine. This is waves of negative thoughts, black mood, utterly lost all interest, motivation and enjoyment from anything. 

 

Also physically a wreck with Parkinson’s tremors, pains, etc.

 

The evidence for this being a relapse is:

 

a) Can hardly be described as a wave, as been going on for weeks.

b) Rapid deterioration.

c) Not a hint of a window.

 

I’m on a knife edge now. Can’t tolerate these symptoms for another day. However, reintroduction of old, or new AD not guaranteed to help and could exacerbate.

 

What do folk recommend I do?

 

Thank you. 

[Snorky]

Would really appreciate any insight on this. 

 

Thanks 

[Onmyway]

Hi Snorky,

I'm not sure what your question is. WD can go on for a very long time without a wave. I had my first brief 3 day window at 5 months post (more or less successful) reinstatement at 1 month. You seem to be off for less than 3 months of no changes. This will get better, no question about it and from my own experience and what I'm seeing here is that stability is achieved only when you don't mess with things further. At this point seems like there is no choice but to wait and be patient. 

 

I can't opine on reinstatement as you see the same information as I do here about whether it works or not from various people who have done it. I can promise you it will get better. However, none of us can tell you when. Could you plz create a signature so we know what you have changed recently? 

[Snorky]

5 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Hi Snorky,

I'm not sure what your question is. WD can go on for a very long time without a wave. I had my first brief 3 day window at 5 months post (more or less successful) reinstatement at 1 month. You seem to be off for less than 3 months of no changes. This will get better, no question about it and from my own experience and what I'm seeing here is that stability is achieved only when you don't mess with things further. At this point seems like there is no choice but to wait and be patient. 

 

I can't opine on reinstatement as you see the same information as I do here about whether it works or not from various people who have done it. I can promise you it will get better. However, none of us can tell you when. Could you plz create a signature so we know what you have changed recently? 

Thanks

 

Have updated signature. If you ignore four weeks reinstatement,  my CT goes back to 10 Sept. 

 

I was simply suggesting my case was more suggestive of relapse of original disease rather than discontinuation syndrome. My reasons were covered in bullets.

 

 

 

[sunnysideup69]

3 hours ago, Snorky said:

Thanks

 

Have updated signature. If you ignore four weeks reinstatement,  my CT goes back to 10 Sept. 

 

I was simply suggesting my case was more suggestive of relapse of original disease rather than discontinuation syndrome. My reasons were covered in bullets.

 

 

 

Snorky, I honestly don't think you're having a relapse.You're only 3 months away from your CT (ignoring reinstate). Friend I told you about who CTed Citalopram actually had a little 'honeymoon period' before she crashed after cold turkeying. Then nosedived. I think what you're experiencing is pretty normal in terms of drug withdrawal. 

[Snorky]

30 minutes ago, sunnysideup69 said:

Snorky, I honestly don't think you're having a relapse.You're only 3 months away from your CT (ignoring reinstate). Friend I told you about who CTed Citalopram actually had a little 'honeymoon period' before she crashed after cold turkeying. Then nosedived. I think what you're experiencing is pretty normal in terms of drug withdrawal. 

Hi S

 

Many thanks for the reassurance. I was naively waiting for some alleviation (aka window). I’m not seeing this, just deterioration across all symptoms. Didn’t think that would be normal, even after three months? Both physiological and mental are unbearable, unlike anything experienced b4. However, I find the mental anguish and strain most terrifying. It’s almost like the constant numbness, pins and needles and pressure feeling I have permanently (calves and shins) transfers itself to my head. This prevents sleep, blocks understanding, motivation conversation and enjoyment.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Thank you again.

[sunnysideup69]

6 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Hi S

 

Many thanks for the reassurance. I was naively waiting for some alleviation (aka window). I’m not seeing this, just deterioration across all symptoms. Didn’t think that would be normal, even after three months? Both physiological and mental are unbearable, unlike anything experienced b4. However, I find the mental anguish and strain most terrifying. It’s almost like the constant numbness, pins and needles and pressure feeling I have permanently (calves and shins) transfers itself to my head. This prevents sleep, blocks understanding, motivation conversation and enjoyment.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Thank you again.

 

Totally makes sense. It's a bit of a horrendous process in the early months. I'm not surprised you haven't really seen a window yet Also, you had an adverse reaction to the reintoduction of Amitryptiline, if I understand your posts correctly. I think it was good to try the reintro, but that will also have created a bit of a ripple. It WILL settle. Honestly, just plough on with sleeping as much as you're able, good sleep hygiene and just rest in bed if you can't sleep, good diet, get your fruits and veggies in, fish oil if you can, gentle exercise. I can totally relate to the no motivation, no enjoyment....that comes and goes for me. Mostly at the moment I just feel a bit blah about everything social.

[Snorky]

3 minutes ago, sunnysideup69 said:

 

Totally makes sense. It's a bit of a horrendous process in the early months. I'm not surprised you haven't really seen a window yet Also, you had an adverse reaction to the reintoduction of Amitryptiline, if I understand your posts correctly. I think it was good to try the reintro, but that will also have created a bit of a ripple. It WILL settle. Honestly, just plough on with sleeping as much as you're able, good sleep hygiene and just rest in bed if you can't sleep, good diet, get your fruits and veggies in, fish oil if you can, gentle exercise. I can totally relate to the no motivation, no enjoyment....that comes and goes for me. Mostly at the moment I just feel a bit blah about everything social.

Thanks again. The other thing I forgot to mention is that the mental anguish also includes an element of v depressive, despair type feelings. Like surges of these sensations periodically. They can also last for days, as had them from Thursday to Saturday last week. 

 

Much appreciated.

[sunnysideup69]

4 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Thanks again. The other thing I forgot to mention is that the mental anguish also includes an element of v depressive, despair type feelings. Like surges of these sensations periodically. They can also last for days, as had them from Thursday to Saturday last week. 

 

Much appreciated.

 

Still sounds completely normal to me. It's your CNS and brain wobbling around. (Not very technical description, I know.) This is pretty much the same whether you CTed or just fast tapered etc.

[Snorky]

1 hour ago, sunnysideup69 said:

 

Still sounds completely normal to me. It's your CNS and brain wobbling around. (Not very technical description, I know.) This is pretty much the same whether you CTed or just fast tapered etc.

Thanks again. Just desperate for some, minor alleviation in mental and physical deterioration. Other elephant in room, so to speak, is financial issue. I’m now starting my fourth week sick. I will run out of paid sick leave v soon. I can see many on here take years to get back to done semblance of normality/functionality. Don’t know how they manage. Already thinking of retirement. (60 so full pension, but barely half curren

[sunnysideup69]

20 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Thanks again. Just desperate for some, minor alleviation in mental and physical deterioration. Other elephant in room, so to speak, is financial issue. I’m now starting my fourth week sick. I will run out of paid sick leave v soon. I can see many on here take years to get back to done semblance of normality/functionality. Don’t know how they manage. Already thinking of retirement. (60 so full pension, but barely half curren

It's difficult, I know. I also took time off work in June this year (4 weeks) and then again September until mid October. Worrying about money is an added stress...but if you need time out, you need time out. 

People CAN take years, but on the other hand, can also take a relatively short time. My friend Paula (Citalopram CT story) was off for a total of 4 months, after that CT. She then phased back into work over a month. I suppose it also depends upon what you do, for her, she could begin by working from home a little bit. But still, 4 months wasn't too bad after a CT......and she's my age, 50.

[Snorky]

8 minutes ago, sunnysideup69 said:

It's difficult, I know. I also took time off work in June this year (4 weeks) and then again September until mid October. Worrying about money is an added stress...but if you need time out, you need time out. 

People CAN take years, but on the other hand, can also take a relatively short time. My friend Paula (Citalopram CT story) was off for a total of 4 months, after that CT. She then phased back into work over a month. I suppose it also depends upon what you do, for her, she could begin by working from home a little bit. But still, 4 months wasn't too bad after a CT......and she's my age, 50.

Thank you again S. You’ve been v supportive and constructive. I have good relationship with line manger/employer. Even though stressful, a quick return to work is probably on my interest. Looking at same four walls is making me vegetate and palpably more depressed, lonely helpless etc.

[sunnysideup69]

5 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Thank you again S. You’ve been v supportive and constructive. I have good relationship with line manger/employer. Even though stressful, a quick return to work is probably on my interest. Looking at same four walls is making me vegetate and palpably more depressed, lonely helpless etc.

Yes, if you can, when you're well enough, I really think it helps to distract from WD symptoms. You're welcome. It's a scary and confusing thing, coming off these drugs...noone really gets it unless they've done it. It has really taught me to respect my brain/CNS. Nice to chat, hoping you see something of an upturn before too long

[Snorky]

22 minutes ago, sunnysideup69 said:

Yes, if you can, when you're well enough, I really think it helps to distract from WD symptoms. You're welcome. It's a scary and confusing thing, coming off these drugs...noone really gets it unless they've done it. It has really taught me to respect my brain/CNS. Nice to chat, hoping you see something of an upturn before too long

Many thanks again. It’s just possible I am having the odd window, but too overwhelmed by the situation to recognise, I’m wondering whether supplements might help. Do you take the Omega 6 and Magnesium? Are they helpful? I read the general advice about not being for everyone, some people having an adverse reaction etc. I just don’t want to risk further adverse reactions after CT and reinstatement.

[sunnysideup69]

7 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Many thanks again. It’s just possible I am having the odd window, but too overwhelmed by the situation to recognise, I’m wondering whether supplements might help. Do you take the Omega 6 and Magnesium? Are they helpful? I read the general advice about not being for everyone, some people having an adverse reaction etc. I just don’t want to risk further adverse reactions after CT and reinstatement.

I take an Omega 3 supplement....it's those you want. A dose of EPA and DHA.

I actually don't take a magnesium supplement but I do occasionally have an Epsom salts bath and relax in that. I overdid the magnesium and it gave me stomach cramps, didn't restart it but might do so at a small dosage.

I think the key is to start low and see if there are any adverse effects. 

To be honest, I still have windows/waves, but I don't really suffer from cognitive impairment....I can still think pretty clearly, and I'm attributing that to the fish oil.

[Snorky]

40 minutes ago, sunnysideup69 said:

I take an Omega 3 supplement....it's those you want. A dose of EPA and DHA.

I actually don't take a magnesium supplement but I do occasionally have an Epsom salts bath and relax in that. I overdid the magnesium and it gave me stomach cramps, didn't restart it but might do so at a small dosage.

I think the key is to start low and see if there are any adverse effects. 

To be honest, I still have windows/waves, but I don't really suffer from cognitive impairment....I can still think pretty clearly, and I'm attributing that to the fish oil.

Thanks again. Can you explain EPA and DHA please. Also, in last hour, feel v depressed, black mood all round. This is the worst aspect of the mental anguish (to go with the confusion and anxiety). I’m guessing it’s a v obvious sign of shortage of serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine etc? If this is happening now, is there any reason to believe these feelings will alleviate?

[sunnysideup69]

3 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Thanks again. Can you explain EPA and DHA please. Also, in last hour, feel v depressed, black mood all round. This is the worst aspect of the mental anguish (to go with the confusion and anxiety). I’m guessing it’s a v obvious sign of shortage of serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine etc? If this is happening now, is there any reason to believe these feelings will alleviate?

 I'm not an expert, but they are fatty acids which are important for neurogenesis. That's all I know. So I guess good for brain repair and function. Yes, I do believe those feelings will alleviate...I think neurotransmitters must surely be in a constant state of flux, levels changing all the time.

Also, I'm not sure that the relationship between neurotransmitter levels and mood has ever been proven. Pretty sure I've read that, plus the general debunking of the 'chemical imbalance' model of anxiety and depression. These feelings will come and go. It's all part of WD. Who really knows what's going on in our brains? I tend to assume that my brain will work its way back to balance again and it usually does, but it takes practice and time eg had a hideous day yesterday with really high anxiety bordering on panic, just let it happen and although day was awful, am feeling better today. 

[Snorky]

1 hour ago, sunnysideup69 said:

 I'm not an expert, but they are fatty acids which are important for neurogenesis. That's all I know. So I guess good for brain repair and function. Yes, I do believe those feelings will alleviate...I think neurotransmitters must surely be in a constant state of flux, levels changing all the time.

Also, I'm not sure that the relationship between neurotransmitter levels and mood has ever been proven. Pretty sure I've read that, plus the general debunking of the 'chemical imbalance' model of anxiety and depression. These feelings will come and go. It's all part of WD. Who really knows what's going on in our brains? I tend to assume that my brain will work its way back to balance again and it usually does, but it takes practice and time eg had a hideous day yesterday with really high anxiety bordering on panic, just let it happen and although day was awful, am feeling better today. 

Hi again

 

I know there’s a prevailing feeling that neuro transmitters and chemical imbalances not responsible for the mood. However, something has suddenly triggered these v black and palpably dark feelings. No “coming and going” at the moment, fairly constant. Also not present or “coming and going” in the 12 weeks since CT (until last week)

 

Just terrifying, debilitating and v worrying.

 

Thanks again

[sunnysideup69]

1 minute ago, Snorky said:

Hi again

 

I know there’s a prevailing feeling that neuro transmitters and chemical imbalances not responsible for the mood. However, something has suddenly triggered these v black and palpably dark feelings. No “coming and going” at the moment, fairly constant. Also not present or “coming and going” in the 12 weeks since CT (until last week)

 

Just terrifying, debilitating and v worrying.

 

Thanks again

 

Yes, it must be really trying, to cope with relentless darkness. But I still think it will shift for you.

[Snorky]

3 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

 

Yes, it must be really trying, to cope with relentless darkness. But I still think it will shift for you.

Thanks, I hope I’m not the only one who has relapse rather than WD. On the one hand the depression symptom is “different”, so suggestive of WD. On the other, was being originally treated for A&D, do fits with that. Discuss??

[Eastcoastgirl]

That's a very short time. Some people don't even start experiencing withdrawal until 3 months in. Personally to me it sounds like withdrawal depression rather than true depression. Especially because you're describing it as being more severe than anything you've ever experienced before and it came on rapidly. This happens frequently and it's just one way drug companies are able to keep you hooked forever, by making you think you're relapsing. It's taken me nearly 9 months to stop having constant, severe depression since withdrawal began, and I had no history of depression prior. It is rare to experience windows early on in withdrawal.

[sunnysideup69]

2 hours ago, KMart95 said:

That's a very short time. Some people don't even start experiencing withdrawal until 3 months in. Personally to me it sounds like withdrawal depression rather than true depression. Especially because you're describing it as being more severe than anything you've ever experienced before and it came on rapidly. This happens frequently and it's just one way drug companies are able to keep you hooked forever, by making you think you're relapsing. It's taken me nearly 9 months to stop having constant, severe depression since withdrawal began, and I had no history of depression prior. It is rare to experience windows early on in withdrawal.

 

Exactly...true depression doesn't tend to happen so quickly after cessation. Much more likely to be CT depression. This is EXACTLY how the drug companies via doctors make their money......"Oh dear, look, you relapsed immediately! You just can't do without the drugs!''

And then when the drugs start causing problems because your CNS is fed up with being hammered, " Oh dear, you're treatment resistant! You must be bipolar! Have some new drugs."

[Snorky]

4 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

 

Exactly...true depression doesn't tend to happen so quickly after cessation. Much more likely to be CT depression. This is EXACTLY how the drug companies via doctors make their money......"Oh dear, look, you relapsed immediately! You just can't do without the drugs!''

And then when the drugs start causing problems because your CNS is fed up with being hammered, " Oh dear, you're treatment resistant! You must be bipolar! Have some new drugs."

Hi Both

 

Many thanks for continuing interest and support. Yep, three months since amitriptyline CT (25mg), but I guess also the small  matter of the previous thirty years on other ADs😡

 

As usual, woke at 4am last night. Then unable to get back to sleep due to the unbearable mental anguish, tightness etc. I know magnesium deficiency can be cause of insomnia, but compounded by the mental anguish, which also prevents sleep. Thinking I may have to try supplements to take the edge off the truly ghastly symptoms.

 

Thanks

[sunnysideup69]

Good luck with the supplements, remember to start low. 

[Snorky]

2 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

Good luck with the supplements, remember to start low. 

Hi

 

How low is low? Think I have no choice but to dabble with supplements. HVe blood tests coming back on Friday, but expect these to be clear (too easy), Then either have to:

 

1. Return to work on Wednesday.

2. Try to work from home for a few days to cushion impact.

3. Extend sick leave, with prospect of half pay then zero pay.

 

I feel I’m being well rewarded for toughing  it out.

 

Thanks

 

[Snorky]

Hi again

 

Another humdinger of night and day. Broken down:

1. 9-11pm-Stabbing pains in arms and legs.

2. 11-1am /sleep

3. 1am- 7am- wide awake. Mental tightness prevents return to sleep. Weird anguish type symptom, like same feeling I have in calves and shins.

4, 7am-16.15- Massive anguish, confusion, depression and physical stuff (Parkinson type tremors, pain and stiff muscles) 

 

Also forgot to mention another symptom. V hoarse voice-not sore, just hoarse. Bit of a side show, but v debilitating.

 

Thank you and hope everyone else seeing some mitigation in symptoms.

[Eastcoastgirl]

Have you posted an introduction topic here and spoken with the moderators? I would not try supplements. Your nervous system is in a fragile state and most people here have negative reactions to supplements. The only things recommended are magnesium and omega 3. Many supplements are activating and can make things worse temporarily or long term. 

[Snorky]

35 minutes ago, KMart95 said:

Have you posted an introduction topic here and spoken with the moderators? I would not try supplements. Your nervous system is in a fragile state and most people here have negative reactions to supplements. The only things recommended are magnesium and omega 3. Many supplements are activating and can make things worse temporarily or long term. 

Hi

 

Yep, have posted in Introduction section, and was originally supported by Gridley. That seemed to dry up, so revived in symptoms section. 

 

Noted comments re supplements.

 

Thanks

[Snorky]

11 hours ago, Snorky said:

Hi

 

Yep, have posted in Introduction section, and was originally supported by Gridley. That seemed to dry up, so revived in symptoms section. 

 

Noted comments re supplements.

 

Thanks

Another long night with insomnia. In my case, the cause of the initial disturbance and subsequent failure to return to sleep is :

1. Constant pressure sensations and pins and needles in both legs.

2. Mental anguish/tightness and confusion.

 

Is that the same for everyone?

 

Thanks