benesh: is this possible

[PH1]

Hang in there benesh.  Your window for a month is a good sign.   There will be ups and downs, as you know, on this difficult journey

 

[Greatful]

@benesh   Hang in there..........I am so sorry that this monster has it's claws in you......Your month long wonderful window is a a good thing....Showing you that you can heal.....I hope this set back is short and you will be back in the bright sun light again♥️........

 

[getofflex]

Hi Benesh, I'm very happy you had a month long window, and I'm very sorry to hear that now you are in a wave.  

19 hours ago, benesh said:

And yes I have even thought of getting put back on meds.  I know I am not thinking clearly at all.

Going back on meds may not fix this.  I've seen too many people try this, and it backfires, and makes them even worse. Going on, off, and then on meds can cause kindling and a sensitized, unstable nervous system.  

 

According to your drug signature, you are still on 8.4 mg Lexapro and 54.2 mg Buprorion, is this correct?   

 

Going through WD from psych meds is a very big challenge, but you can do this!  Try to just take things a day, or an hour, or a moment at a time.  Radical acceptance also helps a lot:  

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/pieces-mind/201207/radical-acceptance

Edited March 22, 2022 by getofflex

[benesh]

Yes still on same dosage. When I think of that, I get even more discouraged. I try to focus on the moment..literally. As soon as I consider anything else, I start spinning. 
I wonder what acceptance sounds like in these moments? Accept that I don’t want to live? That this is just tapering thoughts? That it is ok I don’t want to be around others?
The thoughts are so dark. 
I am at such a loss today. I will go out later with sis to visit someone in nursing home.

I went for a brief walk. How can these small activities seem so colossal? Normal DLA, especially eating is so effortful.
How does one persevere? It will get better….

I am sorry for the bleak outlook. I read the Word…ask Him through out day for help..

I guess I am just tired and worn out today.

🥺 

[benesh]

@getofflex,

I will look at the article on radical acceptance. Thank you for sending🥰

[getofflex]

3 hours ago, benesh said:

I read the Word…ask Him through out day for help..

The Lord will get you through this.  The Bible says we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us.   Take things a moment at a time. Don’t project in to the future. This is not permanent.  I’m praying for you right now.  

Edited March 22, 2022 by getofflex

[Greatful]

@benesh  

Yes these are your brain in it's confused state......It is not working right....blame it on the drugs that disrupted your natural brain and now it's fighting to find it's self as you go down on the drug....... We have  temporary chemical brain injuries.   It's okay to not want to be around others.........everything that is going on with you is okay......Try not ask to much from yourself, just too  love yourself.  

 

I also go through times where is it so hard to do anything........If it's like me you feel so heavy, ragged and blue...........This will make you feel better, most of the time I get only 2 showers a week......Can we accept that it's okay to feel like this for a little while... 

 

You will get another window.......Your brain has already shown you that it is working on the adjustment and will keep working on it..

Hang in there.  When you are feeling that you are alone and it hurts so much remind yourself that you are not alone.....

Hang in there. you can do this♥️

 

[benesh]

@Greatful  @getofflex @PH1

Dear fellow sojourners,

Your words of comfort, reassurance and guidance are lifelines. 
Hope to write more eventually. 
Clinging to faith and words of others further along this path.

benesh

[SonSetFree]

How are you feeling Benesh?

 

By the way I noticed in your signature you are taking Ashwagandha.  Did you know that it’s effect wears off over time?   Are you taking it daily or as needed? 
 

Also I was listening to Ryan Fullerton sermon and was reminded how we can pray and ask God to make us like Jesus only to then cry, “oh God why have you forsaken me” when persecution or trials come.  I realize looking back how much I prayed that prayer asking God to do a work in my heart.  It’s true be careful what you ask for.  This is why the prosperity Gospel is so dangerous.  

[getofflex]

Often the Lord allows us to suffer trials and difficulties to refine us spiritually.  There are many bible verses about this.  He is with us constantly and giving us the strength to bear the trials.  I'm praying for you.  

[SonSetFree]

Yes we are like coal under intense pressure that turns into a diamond in the end.   

 

i know how hard it is to see it when we are in a wave but better days are ahead.  Hold on.   I am also praying for you.  
 

 

[benesh]

Awww thanks @SonSetFree They are an amazing family with lots of kiddos.

A bit more stability but due to med change. Ugh.

I found a psychiatrist through my insurance. She is listed on benzo coalition’s site as taper aware.Sonya Knight.

When I spoke with her, she said that I am way too dysregulated. YES FOR SURE.

Her recommendation is to start on prozac 10mg and then once more stability, resume the taper of lexapro and then welbutrin. 
We prayed.my hubby and sister and me of course.

Almost within the first day, no tears. The crying jags were so exhausting.

I am not thrilled about adding to the mix but at this point a prozac bridge made sense.I had heard of that a while ago.

Yes I am still taking the ashwaganda. and all the other supplements listed.

The morning dread continues but does not last as long. My time with Him has been so sweet. This ordeal certainly has drawn me closer. 
I will pray for you all right now. I get confused but I thought that sonsetfree is the husband helping his wife’s taper? Either way to the throne I go on your behalf.

He has risen.🥰🙏

 

[ChessieCat]

On 4/12/2022 at 11:08 PM, benesh said:

Her recommendation is to start on prozac 10mg

 

If you are going to do a Prozac bridge you might consider starting with a very small dose of Prozac.  Prozac has a very long half life (explained in this post Paragraph #5) so it can take between 2-4 weeks to build up completely in your system.  So if you take too much, it might take between 2-4 weeks for any adverse reactions to abate.

 

Please carefully read:

 

the-prozac-switch-or-bridging-with-fluoxetine

 

From https://reference.medscape.com/drug-interactionchecker

Serious - Use Alternative

• escitalopram + fluoxetine

  escitalopram and fluoxetine both increase serotonin levels. Avoid or Use Alternate Drug.

• escitalopram + bupropion

  escitalopram increases toxicity of bupropion by unspecified interaction mechanism. Avoid or Use Alternate Drug. May lower seizure threshold; keep bupropion dose as low as possible.

• fluoxetine + bupropion

  fluoxetine increases toxicity of bupropion by unspecified interaction mechanism. Avoid or Use Alternate Drug. May lower seizure threshold; keep bupropion dose as low as possible.

• fluoxetine + escitalopram

  fluoxetine will increase the level or effect of escitalopram by affecting hepatic enzyme CYP2C19 metabolism. Avoid or Use Alternate Drug.

Monitor Closely

• bupropion + fluoxetine

  bupropion will increase the level or effect of fluoxetine by affecting hepatic enzyme CYP2D6 metabolism. Use Caution/Monitor.

• escitalopram + fluoxetine

  escitalopram and fluoxetine both increase QTc interval. Modify Therapy/Monitor Closely.

 

Please carefully read this topic:

 

 

[Altostrata]

On 4/12/2022 at 6:08 AM, benesh said:

Almost within the first day, no tears. The crying jags were so exhausting.

 

Hello, @benesh, how are you doing now? What drugs are you taking, at what times o'clock, each day?

[benesh]

@Altostrata,

Thanks for asking.

Here is my routine:

Morning meds-6:15 -6:30am.

26.2 mg of liquid bupropion  and 8.4mg of liquid escitalopram.

All vitamins with breakfast anytime between 8:30-10:am.

evening meds-6:30-7:00  pm

26.2 mg of liquid bupropion 

Night  time meds-9:00 pm

fluoxetine 10 mg- capsule

Started the fluoxetine  on April 7. Less tearful, more motivation, able to go out on my own.

Rough weekend though after time with family.

Flat, tearful, unmotivated, minimal thoughts. Low level dread and despair.

I do not know if I will ever be ok. So tired of all this. Nothing you have not already heard.

My faith in God, supportive husband and sister do their best to walk with me through this.

Not sure what else to say. I did receive some information from 

Chessiecat on the prozac bridge. I tried to read it but my brain short circuits very easily.

Scared and hopeless but trying to be gentle with myself.

Benesh

 

 

[Pollyjay]

3 hours ago, benesh said:

@Altostrata,

Thanks for asking.

Here is my routine:

Morning meds-6:15 -6:30am.

26.2 mg of liquid bupropion  and 8.4mg of liquid escitalopram.

All vitamins with breakfast anytime between 8:30-10:am.

evening meds-6:30-7:00  pm

26.2 mg of liquid bupropion 

Night  time meds-9:00 pm

fluoxetine 10 mg- capsule

Started the fluoxetine  on April 7. Less tearful, more motivation, able to go out on my own.

Rough weekend though after time with family.

Flat, tearful, unmotivated, minimal thoughts. Low level dread and despair.

I do not know if I will ever be ok. So tired of all this. Nothing you have not already heard.

My faith in God, supportive husband and sister do their best to walk with me through this.

Not sure what else to say. I did receive some information from 

Chessiecat on the prozac bridge. I tried to read it but my brain short circuits very easily.

Scared and hopeless but trying to be gentle with myself.

Benesh

 

 

 

Benesh, I just want you to know I'm praying for you!! I know the scared and hopeless feeling.

 

Sending warm hugs,

 

Polly

[PH1]

Thinking about and praying for you today, benesh.   God is with you.

 

[benesh]

@PH1

@Pollyjay

Hey thanks for the prayers and hugs. 
I continue to turn to God but my faith is thin and frayed.

I want to be a light for Him but the darkness is swallowing me up…

Sometimes, I just want to stop all the meds. Tired of this ridiculously slow process. I still have WD, so I think what difference would it make just to quit. I know, I know..do not do that but…it is tempting. Tired of the daily regime of measuring the liquid stuff and still little consistent relief.

Thanks for listening to my heart of desperation.

Benesh

[Pollyjay]

15 hours ago, benesh said:

@PH1

@Pollyjay

Hey thanks for the prayers and hugs. 
I continue to turn to God but my faith is thin and frayed.

I want to be a light for Him but the darkness is swallowing me up…

Sometimes, I just want to stop all the meds. Tired of this ridiculously slow process. I still have WD, so I think what difference would it make just to quit. I know, I know..do not do that but…it is tempting. Tired of the daily regime of measuring the liquid stuff and still little consistent relief.

Thanks for listening to my heart of desperation.

Benesh

 

Honey, we are always here to listen. I pray that relief from your suffering will come soon!!!!

[Sunflower414]

Hi @benesh, how is your Prozac bridge going?

[benesh]

@Sunflower414,

Good question. Last week I had a more productive week. Away at family holiday gathering; very stressful, and now rough going. Increase in anxiety, tearfulness, dread and more people avoidance.

I have been wondering if I should just resume the taper. I think part of the challenge is I feel so stuck. I have not reduced anything since September 2021. I still have waves and windows. The other piece is I keep waiting to feel better. When I don’t….hope deferred makes the heart sick.

Perhaps my approach  should be more about accepting the suffering.This maybe what God has in store. Suffering is part of the journey. This has not been part of my mind or heart-set at all.

I guess I need to pray about the grace to suffer  and draw close to God.

I have so much shame, self condemnation, and fear; I know there is a spiritual battle ensuing. I have limited ability to converse since my mind is mush. 
Hows that for a non answer answer.I meet with the prescribing psychiatrist on Friday. I will let her know how flat, absent I feel the second week on the Prozac.

No meds in heaven. Yay!
May He supernaturally equip us.

 

 

[Sunflower414]

Hi @benesh

 

i’m so sorry you are suffering. I know it very well. I held for about nine months before I continued my taper, and it is still pretty rough. I am considering trying to bridge to Prozac but not sure just yet. How are you doing the bridge? Did you lower your original medication? How much of Prozac did you add? Thank you for sharing. In your signature it says you added 10 mg of Prozac. That seems pretty high! When I spoke with alto she recommended I only add 2.5 mg the first week maybe it is too high for you?

 

I am however glad you got to spend some time with family. I’ll be definitely praying for you during this time. I believe God will heal us and like you said there are no meds are suffering in heaven so there’s always that to look forward to! I’ll be keeping you in my prayers.

[getofflex]

@beneshhave you felt significantly worse since you started on the 10 mg prozac on April 7? 

Edited April 21, 2022 by getofflex

[benesh]

7 hours ago, getofflex said:

@beneshhave you felt significantly worse since you started on the 10 mg prozac on April 7? 

@getofflex that is a good question. Hard to say.

I use a daily mood scale 1-6. #1 worst pain- #6 total joy.

I noticed that last week I was at 4 most days. ( some joy) still aware of taper brain, foggy, a bit paranoid, reduced anxiety and no SI.🥰

Spent time over the weekend with extended family. Not able to maintain routine of time with the Lord. Very stressful in allot of ways.

Home Sunday and crashed to #1,2. I get exhausted, mild SI, increased anxiety, feel so flat, not able to maintain conversation, a walking corpse. Then I can snap out of it for a few moments and wham back again. 
Prior to the prozac bridge from March 16-April 10, I was at 1,2 primarily and a few 3s. 
Is it prozac related? This has been so arduous, at least for me. Perhaps I am just not that sturdy, tend more to a negative mindset and weary after almost 3 years.

I think I struggle to accept the suffering. My world has become so small. I do not understand why being around others where conversation is required is so unnerving but it is. Socializing was never my fave but this level of people avoidance is at an all time high.

I am thinking now that since the pain persists whether I hold or not, I may talk to the psychiatrist about resuming a very slow taper of the lexapro.Dunno of course. I feel sooooo stuck.

Of course prayer but lately my ears and heart don't seem to be tuning in to Him. 
Enough rambling.
It seems you have made some phenomenal progress. Thrilled for you. What a joy to know you have essentially reached the finished line. 

Asking Him to show me what suffering unto Him might look like.

Benesh

Thanks for listening.

[benesh]

19 hours ago, Sunflower414 said:

Hi @benesh

 

i’m so sorry you are suffering. I know it very well. I held for about nine months before I continued my taper, and it is still pretty rough. I am considering trying to bridge to Prozac but not sure just yet. How are you doing the bridge? Did you lower your original medication? How much of Prozac did you add? Thank you for sharing. In your signature it says you added 10 mg of Prozac. That seems pretty high! When I spoke with alto she recommended I only add 2.5 mg the first week maybe it is too high for you?

 

I am however glad you got to spend some time with family. I’ll be definitely praying for you during this time. I believe God will heal us and like you said there are no meds are suffering in heaven so there’s always that to look forward to! I’ll be keeping you in my prayers.

Hey again thanks for writing.

Yes perhaps the 10 mg was too high. I am not very clear headed so when I spoke to the psychiatrist and she said 10 mg  I asked about that amount. She said given the amount of lexapro and my dysregulation, she suggested it would not be too much. Ugh….who knows.

I wish that all of us trying to taper could live on some exotic island, away from others and the daily stress. Only have time to enjoy the outdoors, God and have all responsibilities taken care of. I feel awful about how much this affects my hubby and sister.

A very long retreat until the worst of the symptoms subside.

I am grateful I am not having to work and am older so on my way to glory sooner vs later. 🙏🥰

[getofflex]

Benesh it sounds like you are better since you added the Prozac, from what you describe: 

 

2 hours ago, benesh said:

Prior to the prozac bridge from March 16-April 10, I was at 1,2 primarily and a few 3s. 

And then after the Prozac, you were: 

2 hours ago, benesh said:

I noticed that last week I was at 4 most days. ( some joy) still aware of taper brain, foggy, a bit paranoid, reduced anxiety and no SI.🥰

 

Please be aware of serotonin syndrome, since you are on 2 antidepressants: 

 

Serotonin Syndrome

 

1 hour ago, benesh said:

A very long retreat until the worst of the symptoms subside.

Do you plan to taper any of these drugs in the future?  When you say retreat, do you mean a spiritual retreat?  

[Altostrata]

@benesh, what are you taking now, at what times o'oclock? The fluoxetine was supposed to replace escitalopram, correct?

 

Have you been taking all your drugs on a regular schedule? Any days you skipped or forgot a dose?

 

Are there any times of day that you feel better or worse? How's your sleep since you started taking fluoxetine?

[benesh]

@Altostrata,

I have not skipped or missed any doses since starting the taper except at the very beginning as was directed by prescribing PCP.

This new psychiatrist suggests I wait to taper the escitalopram until I am more stable. That almost seems impossible given the erratic symptoms over the long haul.

I seem better sometimes in the afternoon. Not dose related that I can tell.

I wake up earlier now with the prozac. Morning dread is not as intense but strange feeling in my head. Hard to describe. A low level headache? Or pressure? 
Very hard to engage in any conversation. Brain does not generate thoughts. Essentially flat and I don’t care are the prevailing states I find myself in.Anhedonia  and akathisia present of course. 

Tearful off and on. My next appointment with the psychiatrist is 5/6/22. 
Scared and desperate but I try to push myself most days.

Not today…

What a mess this all is.

 

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

what are you taking now, at what times o'oclock?

 

[benesh]

@Altostrata

Around 6:15 am, I take 26.2 mg of liquid bupropion and 8.4mg of liquid escitalopram.

Around 9:30 am, with breakfast , I take all vitamins and supplements as prescribed by psychiatrist and pcp.

Around 6:30 pm, I take 26.2 mg of the liquid bupropion.

Around 9:00 pm, I take 10 mg of fluoxetine capsule.

SI, no plan re-emerging.

I do not know how to function at all at times…or perhaps I just have no interest in anything. 

[Altostrata]

What do you mean, you are unstable? You're taking 3 antidepressants all day long. Adverse reactions or drug-drug interactions are to be expected. Please put all your drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html and paste the report or the link to it in this topic.

 

Why do you take escitalopram with bupropion in the morning? How do you feel before and after you take these 2 drugs together?

 

Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

 

[Greatful]

@benesh How are you doing?  

[benesh]

@Greatful,

Aw thanks for asking.

I am not sure of the rules and regs here nor am I computer savvy, so when Altostrata asked ‘ do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day.’ I panicked thinking how hard it is for me to do daily life. The thought of keeping and then typing out the  list overwhelmed me.

I can try nonetheless.I just panicked and avoided. 
I did reduce the amount of the prozac from 10 mg to 5 mg. Started the lexapro taper at 2.5 % reduction. I will evaluate and talk with the psychiatrist in 2 weeks.

Not much more to say. I am getting by. Flat and low motivation, however I push myself daily to do things…go out for a walk, make meals, clean the house, call friends, so I guess that is better. Still with crying episodes. I am determined to proceed on what ever cylinders are firing.

Accepting this season of suffering with help of God and friends.

How are you doing?

 

[benesh]

@Altostrata,

On 4/27/2022 at 1:23 PM, Altostrata said:

What do you mean, you are unstable? You're taking 3 antidepressants all day long. Adverse reactions or drug-drug interactions are to be expected. Please put all your drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html and paste the report or the link to it in this topic.

 

Why do you take escitalopram with bupropion in the morning? How do you feel before and after you take these 2 drugs together?

 

Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

 

I am so sorry Alto but I don’t know how to do many things on the computer. So frustrating and no young people to show me. 
You asked a number of good questions.

1. Why the escitalopram and bupropion in am? That is what my PCP suggested. She admittedly is not well versed in tapering. I used to take all meds together in the morning. When I divided the bupropion dose a while ago per doctor, I continued with that plan. I don’t notice a difference from taking the meds together. I am just so relieved that the am dose is taken.
2. I did look at the drug checker information. Horrible outcomes/possibilities listed. Not sure how to copy and paste on to this reply. I feel so limited on the best of days but even more so now. I talked it over with the psychiatrist but she seemed to dismiss it. Not sure what to do since this has been the medication regime now for a while.

3. Drugs, times, dosage, 
5:45 am       morning dread surges , awake and out of bed

6:00 am        Lie on coach trying to rest a bit more

6:15 am         take 26.2 mg of bupropion 

                       take 8.2 mg of escitalopram         ongoing dread

6:45 am          Walk briefly outside     
7:00 am           Tapping, Wim Hof breathing, bible reading

                                                                     Calmer but still dread

each days activity is different
 

[benesh]

Oops pressed button to send.

9:30 am     Take shower        Flat and unmotivated 

10:30 am     Eat breakfast      Not really hungry

11:00 am     Vacuum, do check book, pay cc       Anhedonia 

12:00 pm     Defrost food for dinner, make a salad

12:30 pm     Brief crying episode after conversation with       mother in law, she wants to have party for my husband

1:00pm        Make lunch

1:30 pm         Do dishes

2:00 pm         Friend visited, we went to Starbucks, great distraction, more engaged, more energy

5:00 pm         Spoke to friend on phone, more connected, brain had some thoughts

6:00 pm        Dinner             Quiet mood

6:30 pm         26.2 bupropion       No noticeable change

7:00 pm       Did dishes, watched news        Ok

8:00 pm       Husband home from work, chat a bit

8:30 pm         5 mg fluoxetine                  No change from drug I notice

9:00 pm        Read and go to bed        Sleep off and on but overall ok.

and the cycle starts all over the next morning.

Mornings are difficult, mostly feel agoraphobic, push myself but almost feels like brain is not functioning in conversations, hard time tracking.

Weird life but not sure what else to do. Try and do things that are helpful, garden, make meals..but so little interest.

I know this is what we all say. 
Some days I cry repeatedly..neuro emotions, other days quiet, little joy but more connected to life activities.

Whew not sure what else to say. Thanks for reading. I hope to stay the course and see healing before I am too old to enjoy but..turning 65. Oy.

[Altostrata]

Thanks, @benesh Please add each drug dose to your daily notes. I am interested in seeing how you feel before and after each dose.

 

Please post 24 hours of notes at a time, including your sleep pattern. What seems like a repetitious cycle to you is a symptom pattern to us. We need to see at least several days of it.