purple: I'm hoping it's withdrawal and not relapse; also, maybe I should quit now while I'm ahead?

[purple]

Hi @AndyPants! I think it's going well but hard to say. I think I was slowly descending into a wave (that's the negative stuff right and windows are positive periods?) and not fully aware of it. Things finally blew up a few days ago when I got into an argument with my parents. Today, I missed/forgot about a meditation series I was committed to attending. I'm glad the instructor let me in late. Now it's on my calendar so I don't forget next week.

 

I guess at this point, I am at a fork in the road again. It's been happening a lot over these last few weeks? Months? I try to get my **** together and then I get distracted by side projects or my ego.

 

I've made the decision to move to the mountains with a friend that will be charging me less rent than I am currently paying. Having the decreased financial burden will help. Being away from my parents even though they're well meaning will help. My friend and I have lived together in the past and so that's not a stressor either. I think I just need to hibernate for a while and really take care of my soul. I trust everything else will fall into place as long as I do that.

 

I'm still on 8.1mg and I think I might stay here for awhile just in case the ?wave, fatigue, irritability is from my body catching up to the decreased dose. I'm okay with however long it will take (the big part of me says). The smaller, impatient part of me says that we are so done with this crap and woe is me and all that victim mentality stuff, ya know?

 

I do feel much better after the blow up with my parents. For anyone else following, I got a lot of labs on myself and of course they're all grossly normal.

 

That's my update for now. Hope everyone is doing alright too ❤️

[purple]

Oh another update. My fatigue has been slightly improving over the past few days. Things I've been doing differently are shutting off screens about half hour before I sleep (I want to do longer but working up to it and giving myself grace), eating better (less processed foods, more whole foods not necessarily organic because that's outside of my budget), and just did my second coconut oil scalp massage last night. These things may be helping.

 

I now believe that my sleep quality at night was poor. I can fall asleep easily and go back to sleep easily if I wake up to use the restroom and I get 8-9 hours each night. However, I noticed I don't have that groggy state when I do awaken. I feel my mind still buzzing and planning the things I have to get done for the day. Chronic low level anxiety and all the things on my plate. I'm looking forward to my hiberation/wintering period.

[AndyPants]

That's great you have the ability to get away and change your surroundings a bit, hopefully that helps with getting a mental recharge and working through things.

[purple]

Thank you, @AndyPants. I feel like I've been so wishy washy and impatient recently.

 

I actually won't be moving to the mountains mountains but I believe where I'm moving to is still part of mountains or maybe hills? Haha, I spin so much in my head, overthinking and whatnot.

 

Internet issues, email issues, phone issues. Finally got my contract for my new living situation though and I'm hopeful and faithful it will help.

 

I usually change my dose on Sundays and this Sunday, I decided to bump my dose back up to 9mg in hopes it would help my fatigue and thus help me get my charting/work done faster. It's only been a few days and haven't noticed much change. Also realizing this indeed may just be subconscious self-sabotage of napping instead of charting.

 

It'll be interesting to read back upon these entries in the future. Right now, things are so in the weeds and in the midst of things I can't see very clearly. Today, I kept thinking it was Wednesday and had to remind myself it's Tuesday. I have been perceiving time very strangely.

 

Today is also day 8 in a row of meditating. It's helped me become more aware again, aware of my fogginess and recent impatience and irritability but still unable to step back further to respond instead of react.

 

I do have more thoughts to share but I'll cut it here for now. I'm sure things will become clearer for me in the future.

[purple]

I don't think increasing to 9mg was a wise decision but I'll take the responsibility and bear the consequences. I don't think I'm in a good place to really judge myself either...

 

To my surprise, I was able to meditate for 40min this morning. I can't remember the last time I did it, and especially on my own. I had more patience than I realized. I probably also have more urgency for being more connected with my essence (spirit, soul, God, innermost, whichever you want to call it).

 

My new plan is to continue to do the 40min meditation each morning. I'm going to taper by my meditation schedule instead; or follow my meditation if that makes sense. I'm already surprised that doing about a week of consecutive meditation has brought such awareness. The repeated attempts at meditating consistently must be working. I keep battling with my self-sabotage or trying to find ways to outsmart it. The only ways that have worked for me are meditating and exercising. My ideal schedule is to get up at 6am, 20min journaling, 40min meditation, 20min journaling. Eat breakfast, take supplements (multivitamin gummies x2, fish oil x1, magnesium x1, vitamin E x1) and medication at a consistent time. Get work done. Run in the afternoon, shower, eat dinner and take fish oil x1.

 

It's a stretch for me but some routine will do me good.

 

Also, this morning I started taking costco/kirkland fish oil because the database I consult rated it pretty highly for quality. It says to take 1 twice a day so I suppose it means to space it out and that's why I'll be doing one in the morning and one in the evening.

 

That's all for now. Wishing everyone well~

[purple]

I just realized I didn't quite finish my thought/plan. I plan to stabilize on my *meditation* practice first and then decrease my medication dosage. So I guess I'll be on 9.0mg for awhile until I feel my mindset shifting back from fear to ?courage.

 

My other "would be wonderful to achieve" goal is to finish my charting by 7/7 if not sooner. Wish me luck!

[purple]

I've been able to get some more charting/work done. Got some cases pulled because I was too slow to do the work. Sucks but I'll take that consequence and if I do end up working with this company again, I'll make sure to pace myself instead of burning through and out... Seems to be a recurring pattern in my life which I try to be more mindful of.

 

I am very proud of myself to have gotten some more of the charting done and can see the light at the end. If I work real hard and take advantage of this window I think I'm having, then I can churn them out by the end of this month if not sooner! Oh what a relief that would be!

 

Today's day 16 of consecutive meditating. I believe that's helping too.

[arbor]

Wow--This is wonderful @purple.  I'm so glad to read your progress.  It also inspires me to get to my meditation bench...

Best wishes as we heal,

Arbor

[purple]

Thank you so much, @arbor! That makes me happy to hear Yes, best wishes for our healing ❤️

[AndyPants]

Your meditation practice is very impressive, I've struggled every time I've tried it. It sounds like you're settling into a good routine.

[Greatful]

@purple  I wanted to give you a heads up on the Kirkland Omega 3.  I had just talked with Altrostrata  and this is what she had to say about Kirkland brand.

 

250mg EPA+DHA is weak fish oil. Fine to take, but you'll have to take 4 capsules at each meal to get to 3000-4000mg EPA+DHA per day.

 

Look for a stronger fish oil with 600mg EPA+DHA per capsule.

 

I was taking Kirkland myself and when I was looking at the SA site on Omega 3 and started questioning the mgs I talked with Altrostrata.  

 

Take care

[purple]

Thank you @AndyPants! I began meditation in 2008 so I've had quite some time to learn and experience its effects, get on the wagon, fall off, and repeat. It is certainly very hard to get into a practice and sustain it. I found it much easier in the beginning to meditate in a group. Nowadays, I meditate on my own and enjoy using Insight Timer to gamify it a little by seeing the data and earning little stars for each "milestone" you reach.

Hi @Greatful! Thanks so much for pointing that out! That is so interesting. Now that I look at my 1000mg label, it states:

• Fish oil 1000mg
  • Omega-3 Fatty acids (EPA+DHA) 250mg
  • Other Omega-3 Fatty acids 50mg

So misleading! Thought I was getting 1000mg of EPA+DHA. And now I wonder what the rest of that 1000mg consists of (1000-250-50=700mg of ???)!

 

What brand did you end up going with?

 

I may stick with this brand and just take the extra capsules and observe the difference. I do like that it's rated 10/10 on Natural Medicines database. I find that rating pretty rare.

[purple]

Another update. I have finally moved into my own place. I've been noticing recently how life is full of paradoxes and that's actually just how life is. I started to miss my family. As soon as I'd signed the lease about a month ago, I noticed more peace at home. This new place is pretty nice! I have a nice big balcony and palm trees right in front of me! I don't see this as a long-term place as there's no kitchen but I bought a nice mutli-functional pot that is making cooking easier. The footsteps upstairs are a bit bothersome (luckily it's only during the day) and I can hear the freeway even though I thought we were far away enough not to. I'm not sure if it is my nervous system that is really frayed and more sensitive or that this is how it's always been for me and I just wasn't conscious of it.

 

Happy to report I've continued my meditation practice. I haven't changed anything much since that increase to 9.0mg I did just a bit over 3 weeks ago. While I want to try decreasing again, I am going on vacation in a week and am worried about the effects so I'll be holding at 9 for just a little while longer. Then, I will try to decrease to 8.1mg following that 10% rule and see how that goes. At that point, I'll keep a very close eye on things.

 

With this recent knowledge about the fish oil, the change I will make is increasing the number of capsules I take. I've been taking 2 a day, thinking it got me 2000mg of EPA+DHA. But the devil's in the details eh? Apparently each "1000mg" capsule only has 250mg of EPA+DHA. With that in mind and considering that I have been having a bit of insomnia since moving into this new place, I'll increase to 4 total today and then to 8 tomorrow to see how I feel. My meal times are modified now that I don't have to really follow someone else's routines so I tend to do about 2 meals a day... We'll see how things go

[Greatful]

@purple  I ended up ordering Nordic Ultimate Omega  650mg EPA  450mg DHA  180mg other Omega 3s.  I don't know if it is any better.  I just won't have to take as much.

On the SA  information for taking Omega 3 it should be taken with Vitamin E.  That was new to me, so I got some of them which I will start tomorrow.

 

Congrats on the new living arrangements

 

[purple]

Thanks @Greatful Yes, there's so much information on here! I did buy a vitamin E supplement to take with my fish oil. Suppose I should update my sig

[purple]

I went on a little vacation with friends. Now that I'm back, I plan on doing the decrease to 8.1mg. I'm a bit scared as that's the lowest I've gone this time around. This will be the 3rd time I try to get off my SSRI. I had Brassmonkey tapered to 8.1mg in May this year, trying to get through an incredible fatigue. I decided to go back up to 9.0mg since that was the last time I didn't feel fatigue. I also wanted to finish my charting for work as I was so behind and worried about them firing me/not giving me anymore work. I'm glad I finally got caught up right before the trip!

 

Happy to report today's my 45th day meditating in a row. It's helped a lot with self-observation and getting through little bumps here and there. I plan to continue and not break my streak. I believe it'll help a lot with this tapering journey.

 

[Shep]

On 7/15/2021 at 9:06 PM, purple said:

Now that I'm back, I plan on doing the decrease to 8.1mg. I'm a bit scared as that's the lowest I've gone this time around. This will be the 3rd time I try to get off my SSRI. I had Brassmonkey tapered to 8.1mg in May this year, trying to get through an incredible fatigue. I decided to go back up to 9.0mg since that was the last time I didn't feel fatigue.

 

Purple, instead of going all the way down to 8.1 mg from 9 mg, perhaps do a 5% reduction, or even less. The reason you may be having more troubles at these lower doses is because of the occupancy rate. Please see:

 

Why taper? SERT transporter occupancy studies show importance of gradual change in plasma concentration

 

Many people find that the lower doses are much harder to taper than the higher doses, so you may want to go to a micro-taper going forward. 

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

 

On 7/15/2021 at 9:06 PM, purple said:

Happy to report today's my 45th day meditating in a row. It's helped a lot with self-observation and getting through little bumps here and there. I plan to continue and not break my streak. I believe it'll help a lot with this tapering journey.

 

This is great to read, Purple. Congratulations on learning this very valuable skill and continuing your practice. 

[Greatful]

@purple  Stopping by to say hi and congrats and moving on to the next tiny step to freedom.

 

I started meditating when I figured out this could take awhile and that I needed to find coping skills.  There are so many of us learning about ourselves and how to heal as we go through this horrible experience.   I find that it has help slow my mind down and is helping me to move past my thoughts. (not always easy)  I lay down when I meditate so I feel if I can't quiet my brain very well that day I am at least teasing my body to calm down and be still, rest.

 

  I will be starting my Lexapro taper soon I hope😬

Take care

 

[purple]

@Shep thank you for the advice! I decided to do 5% of my 9.0mg. I had thought from reading other people's posts that "lower dosages" meant like 5mg or less but it's probably different for everyone.

 

@Greatful thank you for saying hi and the congrats! I'm so glad to hear you're finding meditation useful too! It certainly is a nice time for the self to rest even the mind is still a bit busy. Ooh, best of luck with the next lexapro taper!

[Shep]

19 hours ago, purple said:

@Shep thank you for the advice! I decided to do 5% of my 9.0mg. I had thought from reading other people's posts that "lower dosages" meant like 5mg or less but it's probably different for everyone.

 

 

Excellent to read, purple. Yes, it's very individual, which means your own mind/body will guide you in what is right for you. Let us know how you do when you proceed with the 5%. No rush, of course! 

[purple]

A little over a week ago, I made the 5% decrease to 8.6mg liquid escitalopram. I think it's been alright. I have been sleeping in a lot and am stuck in sort of a paralysis analysis career-wise again but I don't really attribute that to the drug though it could be. Just reminding myself to take action and that each day is a new day, especially since I spent most of today in bed watching mindless videos.

[Shep]

The paralysis analysis could be a bit of anhedonia or emotional anesthesia from withdrawal. Or it could be your mind/body wanting you to lay low for awhile and get some rest. Glad you're doing okay other than this. 

[purple]

@Shep, thank you so much for linking me to that! It hadn't crossed my mind that this could be antidepressant related. It's so hard to tell what is chemically-related and what isn't. There's probably no way in telling and the best thing is to just accept the symptoms and try my best to go with them.

[purple]

Something odd happened yesterday. I was at my vision therapy appointment and the optometrist was using two lens and having me bring the chart of letters in and out of focus. The effort or something of it seemed to have induced nausea and I ended up throwing up.

 

Other causes/contributions could've been my stress of being late to the appointment, dehydration, not having eaten much the past few days, and even hyponatremia (decreased sodium in the blood). Also, even though he provides a very safe, caring, and secure demeanor and effect, for some reason I felt more stressed and tense working with him than with his assistants who are female. Made me wonder if there was some weird trigger/association with working with a middle-aged Asian male because what had led me to start antidepressants in the first place was the environment formed by a toxic boss who happened to be middle-aged Asian male. The age/race/sex doesn't matter--just that the two fell in the same groups.

 

I've noticed my nervous system be more sensitive than before so I'm guessing that's what happened?

 

Read through some of the anhedonia/emotional anesthesia posts and can relate in many ways. Also, felt grateful that I have been able to laugh. I recall in late 2018, during my first ADWD, when I was in so much despair and realized I couldn't even laugh. It was horrific. So, am grateful for the emotions that I am able to access even if some of it is sadness or guilt, or even shame I guess.

[purple]

Hmm, maybe too much screen time too. I used to be very mindful of it and how it affected me, but seems I've been caring less now or something... the apathy seems to explain it all 😅 I don't like to have such a fixation bias if that even is a term, but it really does seem to put things into perspective.

[Shep]

14 hours ago, purple said:

Something odd happened yesterday. I was at my vision therapy appointment and the optometrist was using two lens and having me bring the chart of letters in and out of focus. The effort or something of it seemed to have induced nausea and I ended up throwing up.

 

Other causes/contributions could've been my stress of being late to the appointment, dehydration, not having eaten much the past few days, and even hyponatremia (decreased sodium in the blood). Also, even though he provides a very safe, caring, and secure demeanor and effect, for some reason I felt more stressed and tense working with him than with his assistants who are female. Made me wonder if there was some weird trigger/association with working with a middle-aged Asian male because what had led me to start antidepressants in the first place was the environment formed by a toxic boss who happened to be middle-aged Asian male. The age/race/sex doesn't matter--just that the two fell in the same groups.

 

I've noticed my nervous system be more sensitive than before so I'm guessing that's what happened?

 

Yes, it really sounds like a combination of all of it. I know when I have an eye exam, whenever there's a major change in astigmatism and the doc is changing the lenses around, it makes me a bit dizzy. Combined with everything else you mention, sounds like your nervous system and your GI system said, "Enough already!"

[purple]

Pretty sure I'm in a wave. Slept all day today. Some intrusive thoughts. Feeling rather dead inside. No motivation to get things done.

 

It seems when I'm this way, I have the same thoughts of I wish I'd never gotten on this thing in the first place and why can't I get off of it more quickly?! Then I remind myself of how things can't be changed, of how awful my past 3 withdrawals were, and to be patient. I am lucky enough that it's only this one medication I'm on. (But also, why is my body sooo sensitive?!)

 

Reading through other people's journeys, like Shep's, to give me hope.

[purple]

This apathy is ongoing. I got excited for a day or two about a week ago when it felt like it lifted, but then it went back to feeling very nihilistic I guess. I'm spending too much time on the internet and in front of my phone but I also can't seem to care enough to get off of them. But since everything else has appeared fine in terms of symptoms, I did go ahead and do the next 5% drop to 8.2mg a few days ago. I'll likely hold this for a month though the ill-advised part of me wants to drop faster just to get some feeling back. I'm sure I'd regret it as soon as I do that though so just continuing to keep patient.

 

I will admit I've paused/been very inconsistent with my supplements. Initially was to see if that had any effect. It didn't seem too and perhaps because of that, I really haven't been taking them much.

[Greatful]

@purple

20 hours ago, purple said:

I'm spending too much time on the internet and in front of my phone but I also can't seem to care enough to get off of them

I spend a lot of time on my computer and play games on my tablet and I tell myself what's the difference I use to sit in front of the tv all the time.  Now I can't 😥  I have to keep busy some how and I don't want do housework.  I do a little but it is hard when there is not interest and the energy wanes quickly.

We do what we need to do to pass the time.😉

How is the tapering going?

I want to start mine soon.  Start with a really low 1 or 2 % to see how it affects me😵

[purple]

@Greatful, thank you so much for the support! Sorry it's taken me so long to respond. Haha, it really is about passing the time huh??!

 

The tapering seems to be okay... bearable. Luckily not too many physical symptoms that I can tell. Or perhaps it's the mind/psychological stuff or even lack thereof that is more glaring to me.

 

Ooh, have you decided on a date to start your taper? And yeah, that sounds like a safe way to go!

[purple]

A few days ago, I noticed some anxiety/restlessness. I thought oh good, I can and should go for a run. I really need to move my body some more and then of course, I didn't do that. I've been continuing to feel the restlessness but still not at the extreme level that I did about a year ago.

 

My past two months have been doing whatever bare minimum I need to survive, pay bills, do work. Otherwise, I tend to be in bed all day, getting back into bed even when I've managed to somehow get out, and doomscrolling about the collapse of the climate/civilization. I understand that this is really unhealthy for me but it's also soothing?!!

 

I have an incredible ability to self-sabotage 😅 It's frustrating and I don't know how to find my way around it.

[composter]

It’s good that the restlessness is going away @purple. This is really just an unpredictable and lengthy process but if you feel well enough, it can fade into the background of life. Hoping you can find some good steady routines to work on. 
 

I feel you on the screen time and doom scrolling. There’s only so much we can do in the face of so many different crises. Do you think therapy or coaching might help? Sometimes it’s good to have that accountability. 

[Dee12h]

I research like crazy when I’m stressed. It’s a major sign I’m not doing well- constant research! I try to watch comedy or find a project when it happens, but sometimes easier said than done.

[purple]

Thank you @composter. I did try life coaching earlier this year and even then, for some reason, could not get the accountability I needed. Odd though, looking back, things didn't seem so bad at that time. Sometimes I remind myself that in the future, this current moment will seem like nothing and I might even have somewhat rosy memories of it...

 

@Dee12h, yes the escapism and hard to get out of it! I've been trying to find funny Netflix shows to watch but like you said, easier said than done!

[AndyPants]

@purple definitely can relate on spending too much time on the internet. Endless scrolling on social media feels like eating junk food, but when your so disconnected and feeling apathetic it can be hard to get yourself to do anything else. Hard habits for me to break though.

 

I went on a walk today and that felt good, if going on a run feels too daunting see if you can get yourself out a short walk instead. Getting out is always good even if you're not getting a real serious work out.

 

Hope you're doing okay.

[Colonial]

On 8/25/2021 at 12:07 PM, purple said:

I tend to be in bed all day, getting back into bed even when I've managed to somehow get out, and doomscrolling about the collapse of the climate/civilization. I understand that this is really unhealthy for me but it's also soothing?!!

 

I have an incredible ability to self-sabotage 😅 It's frustrating and I don't know how to find my way around it.

 

All  fear porn, regardless the topic or how it manifests can actually become a dopamine addiction when added to a "lock down" scenario. Of course when your ill with WD, you can spend more time in bed or on the couch as your body needs legitimate rest.

 

At some point, though, the constant online obsession with the worst case scenario can become an addiction. Your get a "rush" of some sort without even knowing it, and then afterwards your body and emotions "crash" and you feel worse.

 

Occasionally you can even see it with how people use this site in just that fashion. Instead of doing the positive hard work of withdrawal and seeing the suffering as a time for positive growth, they just use the site as an emotional crutch, looking for sympathy more in a "misery loves company" sort of way rather than in healthy networking.

 

The sad thing is they don't even see how they are just prolonging their own healing.  There's a difference between being online in an honest effort to learn, share stories and have a healthy support network and just looking for attention.  Their very WD issue becomes a manner in which they go out and get that "rush" by constantly being in a state of "red alert" about their issues and always looking for someone to be in conversation with them about their constant state of crisis.

 

Of course, we are all at times the last one to see the truth about our selves in certain ways.  That's why they are called "blind spots" I suppose. The question for any of us is, when we see unhealthy patterns how do we go about fixing them, and to be realistic in knowing change takes time and nothing is solved overnight. But, as you have shown over time, being willing to put one foot forward in the right direction every day eventually adds up to the positive growth we are all looking for.

 

Have a great week ahead.