Kristinhopes: completely lost, what to do now - taper, reinstate, switch

[Shep]

On 10/27/2020 at 8:12 AM, Shep said:

Kristin, please start a drug and symptoms journal. Below are the instructions. This will help us see your symptoms in context, as well as help you keep a regular dosing schedule. 

 

Please include your drugs, dose, and any supplements. Also, the number of hours you sleep each night. 

 

@Kristinhopes  We'll be able to guide you once you post a few days of symptom notes. 

[ChessieCat]

Have you managed to do any symptom notes?

 

On 9/28/2016 at 4:49 AM, Altostrata said:

 

Are your symptoms worse at any particular times of day? A symptom pattern that occurs regularly over several days could mean the symptoms are from withdrawal, other adverse effects of drugs, or something else you do on a daily schedule.

 

...

 

We ask this because there may be something we can do to reduce the symptoms.

 

 

 

 

[Kristinhopes]

I was doing well at 8 mg for two weeks. Day 13 and bam. I can’t tell if this is severe withdrawal from a 2mg reduction, a relapse of akathisia, or Seratonin syndrome (perhaps I’m a slow metabolized) I am almost in a trance, could not sleep well, rolling waves of nausea and severe fatigue and weakness, severe distress and diarrheah yesterday, inner restlessness and chills. Not sure what to do. Here is my diary which. I kept keeping when I thought things got better. I am feeling horrible and out of touch with reality 

 

10/27 2 hours of sleep (jolted awake at 1115) panic and nervousness

7-8 less panic and nervousness

8 -1140 Akathisia and stomach nervousness.. 

1140 Akathisia began to settle from 8 to 6 level

Feeling a little energized and level 8 depression 

1230: took Prozac immediately felt a bit jittery and maybe nauseas nausea and odd feeling within 15 minutes.. while eating lunch. A bit of inner tremor 

145:took two magnesium supplements 

2:00- weird weakness off feeling and some jittery ness / anxiety

2:20- heartburn and a bit of tongue twitching 

2;56 restless legs, depression 

600: depression worsening a little and severe muscle neck throat tension tic. No jitters

8-post dinner, got emotional . Have heart burn and a little stomach burn and noise sensitivity no restlessness

815: heart burn and a couple palpitations, couple negative thoughts, slight inner tremble

1110 panic awake inner trembles

140 panic and unease sleeplessness awake

Multiple awakening going to sleep shortly thereafter awake at 510 unable to go back to sleep severe anxiety and restlessness unable to settle despite meditations . 5.5 to 6 hours total probably

 

Day 2

Severe Akathisia and anxiety and depression all morning, panic like state, dread all morning and afternoon until about 3... .. meds at 1230hyperventilating nervous breakdown at 230 ,, very emotional. Better but not baseline by 330. Heart palpitations and heartburn begin at 445. Tired but feeling slightly more positive than doom and gloom

Worsening depression maybe slight ak at 545

Heart palpitations til 9...took tums got better

Difficulty falling asleep.. half melatonin, about 4.5-5 hours of solid sleep , took GABA but no help a little panic or anxiety

No Akathisia in morning 

Back to sleep from 7-9 vivid dreams sinking depression in and of sleep but mostly in. Headache No Akathisia !so total Of close to 7 hours

 

Day 3 

Wake up at 9: some depression and anxiety maybe a little ak. Breakfast at 10

Mild morning ak increasing ak at 1130

Prozac at 1145.. trying to gradually move it to 8 or 9 am 

Disconnected.. disassociation 1230

Head pressure, fullness, fatigue. Took 1 Tylenol

Feeling better than any other time today at 2... maybe super slight ak, tension throat tic 

Had a few sips of hubby’s coffee with a little espresso at 230.

Very excitable a little raised heart rate maybe and couple face twitches  at 410 but not Akathisia and feeling good overal... almost normal

Feeling normal and good. Intense exercise . Felt well, hopeful like maybe things are turning around but then started googling and worrying maybe it’s mania being induced. Still feeling pretty awake and “good” at 845. 

Melatonin and some activation and heartburn. Asleep around 1130 and slept through until 615, headache and a little burn feeling no Akathisia

Adrenaline feeling and a little anxiousness in upper body , a little hard to focus.. worry about mania but not tired

820: same

Feeling good all morning, not really Akathisia but activated Kind of inner shaking feeling like I drank caffeine, which I didn’t do actually kind of concerned. Doing well at work and focused but not racing thoughts 

1145: took Prozac

1215:starting to feel possibly a little Akathisia

105-eating and feeling good 

Still feeling good other than tic and tension pain @ 410

Around 6 started feeling disconnected from people and a little irritated and depressed

Around dinner felt better again and tired and tension from tic and stuff. Asleep at midnight .

 

Day 4 

Awake at 530 . Anxious about tongue dyskinesia possibility but felt okay

Feeling good to great all morning

Took Prozac at 1145. A little nausea or dizzy possibly about 15 mins later but also drinking some coffeee . Energized and talkative but I would not say manic.. I would just say me when happy

1-11- nausea

5- had a quarter of a cocktail, began feeling possibly Akathisia and stopped

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by ChessieCat
reduced font size

[Kristinhopes]

Could it also be klonopin withdrawal that did not start until day 14 or oerhaps just a wave from the old lex even though I am now on Prozac.  I don’t know what’s happening or what to do. Also for the above day 4 was Friday, oct30.. I started feeling better and somewhat normal after that . I did have a day f fatigue a few days ago but then yesterday and today is when I deteriorated 

[Kristinhopes]

Please help. This is the worse physically I have ever been. Is it too late to reinstate the klonopin if it is in fact a delayed withdrawal from that? It feels like either seretonin syndrome or that because it is unlike any other withdrawal

i

uave experienced. I was doing great the first 10 days off the klonopin, improving, better sleep, then I started getting sleepy and day 13 or 14 all hell broke loose. I don’t know if it’s the klonopin withdrawal or something else

[Shep]

22 hours ago, Kristinhopes said:

took GABA but no help a little panic or anxiety

 

We don't recommend using GABA supplements, especially for people with a benzo history. Please see:

 

GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid) tablets, capsules, liquid

 

Note Alto's comment here on that thread:

 

On 1/12/2014 at 3:40 PM, Altostrata said:

I don't know how taking supplemental GABA will affect you if you have benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms. If your nervous system has been sensitized by benzo withdrawal any time in the past, I suggest being very cautious with supplemental GABA.

 

It looked like you were doing really well but now you're reporting: 

 

2 minutes ago, Kristinhopes said:

Please help. This is the worse physically I have ever been. Is it too late to reinstate the klonopin if it is in fact a delayed withdrawal from that? It feels like either seretonin syndrome or that because it is unlike any other withdrawal

 

 

My guess would be the GABA and then this:

 

22 hours ago, Kristinhopes said:

5- had a quarter of a cocktail, began feeling possibly Akathisia and stopped

 

The GABA supplement and the alcohol both affect the same neurotransmitter as benzos. 

 

I would avoid both of these until you've completely healed. 

 

Please include the dose of Prozac and any supplements or other drugs you're taking in your drug and symptoms journal.

 

Hopefully this wave will be short-lived and you'll be back to a better baseline soon. 

[Altostrata]

On 11/9/2020 at 5:03 AM, Kristinhopes said:

Feeling good to great all morning

Took Prozac at 1145. A little nausea or dizzy possibly about 15 mins later but also drinking some coffeee . Energized and talkative but I would not say manic.. I would just say me when happy

1-11- nausea

5- had a quarter of a cocktail, began feeling possibly Akathisia and stopped

 

It seemed you were doing better, then you upset the apple cart by drinking alcohol. You'll have to hang in there for a week or so to allow your nervous system to settle down from that. You're not going to be able to drink for a long while.

 

Is it possible you were taking Klonopin almost every day for a couple of weeks before you stopped it>

 

Please enter your daily notes in this format, at least 24 hours at a time, including the dosage of each drug you take.

 

Quote

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better

 

[Kristinhopes]

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

It seemed you were doing better, then you upset the apple cart by drinking alcohol. You'll have to hang in there for a week or so to allow your nervous system to settle down from that. You're not going to be able to drink for a long while.

 

Is it possible you were taking Klonopin almost every day for a couple of weeks before you stopped it>

 

Please enter your daily notes in this format, at least 24 hours at a time, including the dosage of each drug you take.

 

 

I have about 6 days of daily notes. As far as klonopin nearly every day it was once every 4to 7 days at .5 mg for two weeks and 1 mg for two weeks. I did take .5 to 1 mg Ativan every 4-5 days for a couple weeks prior to that as well. Never felt dependent. the very last week before I stopped I did take  two days in a row and then  one more 4 days later. And then I stopped . I also drank 2 glasses of wine two nights before this got really bad again. I just don’t know at this point if it’s klonopin withdrawal (although I felt okay for 13 days and was getting better) or if it’s more a return of akathisia from the alcohol , or if it’s a side effect from Prozac or withdrawal from the  2mgdecrease of Prozac (currently at 8 mg and had been there for two weeks.. since I was getting better and then suddenly got much worse and there are so many factors at play I am completely lost what to do now. I am having severe akathisia though and nausea and feel like I am dying and can’t function, especially from 2 am to all morning. I do t know if I should do nothing and suffer, reinstate klonopin, taper off Prozac. And I know nobody knows the best answer. I am terrified

[Altostrata]

7 hours ago, Kristinhopes said:

it was once every 4to 7 days at .5 mg for two weeks and 1 mg for two weeks.

 

Do you mean you took 1mg Klonopin every day for 2 weeks?

 

You have destabilized yourself by drinking alcohol. You'll have to hang in and let your nervous system settle down. We need to see those daily notes.

[Kristinhopes]

On 11/12/2020 at 6:16 AM, Altostrata said:

 

Do you mean you took 1mg Klonopin every day for 2 weeks?

 

You have destabilized yourself by drinking alcohol. You'll have to hang in and let your nervous system settle down. We need to see those daily notes.

No, I took 1 mg klonopin 4 days apart, sometimes 7 days apart, and usually 5 days apart. Most recently dropped off 14 days ago. This occurred for four weeks the first two weeks were .5 mg though) prior to this I took Ativan .75 mg -1 mg approximately twice a week for a couple weeks and then off and on before that no more than once a week . I was recounting my meds to get a more accurate depiction. Since last February I took approximately 15 Ativan doses and 9 klonopin doses in all. So about 25 days total in 6 or 7 months or so, but it did get more frequent (about twice a week) these last couple months . It’s just weird because I felt better for almost two weeks after stopping the klonopin and then got worse, so that’s y I am not so sure it was the klonopin. Also klonopin was not helping that well with insomnia and akathisia I had prior and sometimes not at all.   
 

my notes are sporadic because I quit taking them when I thought I was better these past 12 days or so. So where there is a big swath of info missing it’s because I was doing well overall. 
 

27 Oct

10/27 2 hours of sleep (jolted awake at 1115) panic and nervousness

7-8 less panic and nervousness

8 -1140 Akathisia and stomach nervousness.. 

1140 Akathisia began to settle 

Feeling a little energized and level 8 depression 

1230: took Prozac 8 mg immediately felt a bit jittery and maybe nauseas nausea and odd feeling within 15 minutes.. while eating lunch. A bit of inner tremor 

145:took two magnesium supplements 

2:00- weird weakness off feeling and some jittery ness / anxiety

2:20- heartburn and a bit of tongue twitching 

2;56 restless legs, depression 

600: depression worsening a little and severe muscle neck throat tension tic. No jitters

8-post dinner, got emotional . Have heart burn and a little stomach burn and noise sensitivity no restlessness

815: heart burn and a couple palpitations, couple negative thoughts, slight inner tremble

1110 panic awake inner trembles

140 panic and unease sleeplessness awake

Multiple awakening going to sleep shortly thereafter awake at 510 unable to go back to sleep severe anxiety and restlessness unable to settle despite meditations . 5.5 to 6 hours total probably

 

28 Oct

Severe Akathisia and anxiety and depression all morning, panic like state, dread all morning and afternoon until about 3... ..

1230 8mg Prozac

230 hyperventilating  nervous breakdown at 230 ,, very emotional. Better but not baseline by 330.
445 Heart palpitations and heartburn begin. Tired but feeling slightly more positive than doom and gloom

545 Worsening depression maybe slight akathisia

Heart palpitations til 9...took tums got better

Difficulty falling asleep.. half melatonin, about 4.5-5 hours of solid sleep , took GABA but no help a little panic or anxiety

No Akathisia in morning !! 

Back to sleep from 7-9 vivid dreams sinking depression in and out of sleep but mostly in. Headache No Akathisia !so total Of close to 7 hours

 

29 Oct

Wake up at 9: some depression and anxiety maybe a little akathisia Breakfast at 10

Mild morning ak increasing ak at 1130

Prozac at 1145.. trying to gradually move it to 8 or 9 am 

1230 : Disconnected.. disassociation 

Head pressure, fullness, fatigue. Took 1 Tylenol

2-Feeling better than any other time today at 2... maybe super slight akathisia, tension throat tic 

Had a few sips of hubby’s coffee with a little espresso at 230.

Very excitable a little raised heart rate maybe and couple face twitches  at 410 but not Akathisia and feeling good overal... almost normal

500:Feeling normal and good. Intense exercise . Felt well, hopeful like maybe things are turning around but then started googling and worrying maybe it’s mania being induced. Still feeling pretty awake and “good” at 845. 

Melatonin and some activation and heartburn.

1130: Asleep around 1130 and slept through until 615, headache and a little burn feeling no Akathisia

Adrenaline feeling and a little anxiousness in upper body , a little hard to focus.. worry about mania but not tired

820: same

Feeling good all morning, not really Akathisia but activated Kind of inner shaking feeling like I drank caffeine, which I didn’t do actually kind of concerned. Doing well at work and focused but not racing thoughts 

1145: took Prozac 8 mg

1215:starting to feel possibly a little Akathisia

105-eating and feeling good 

420 Still feeling good other than throat tic and tension pain

6 started feeling disconnected from people and a little irritated and depressed

7 :Around dinner felt better again and tired and tension. Asleep at midnight .

 

30 Oct

Awake at 530 . Anxious about tongue dyskinesia possibility but felt okay

Feeling good to great all morning

1145. A little nausea or dizzy possibly about 15 mins later but also drinking some coffeee . Energized and talkative but I would not say manic.. I would just say me when happy

1-2 nausea. Needed lunch

5- had a quarter of a cocktail, began feeling possibly Akathisia and stopped

Okay rest of night. Got sleep felt mostly good for the next week 

 

drank coffee daily again and had two glasses of wine 1 night then one the night after

 

next day I remember feeling tired, depersonalization, off, sick.. then started getting nausea and diarrheah and panicy spinning feeling. Inner vibrations, akathisia, restlessness began that night 

 

11 Nov

Day 3 of relapse hell

215 am : wok up with inner restlessness, buzzing, unease, nausea, sick feeling, racing heart inner vibration feeling.. but able to go back to sleep 1 more hour, (5 hours or so total sleep) 

5 am : awoke worse than ever

715: shower, heart rate decreased some... feeling 5% better

8:00 eating breakfast, warm achey feeling in addition to inner buzzing and tickling still feeling pretty horrific

1015: most horrible stuff let up.. now fatigued, worried, depressed, some inner nausea and discomfort still though

1230:  8 mg prozac

145: done dread, panic, depression but not as much akathisia 

430: depressed and anxious about my instability but not feeling too many physical symptoms other than weird dropping feeling if I try to relax too much, fatigue

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by ChessieCat
reduced font size - added dates for clarification

[ChessieCat]

Please edit your post (you have up to an hour after first creating in)

 

Please add dates, not days.  Thanks.

[Kristinhopes]

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

Please edit your post (you have up to an hour after first creating in)

 

Please add dates, not days.  Thanks.

Sorry, I got to it too late, but it was 10/27-10/30 and then 11-10 . Also new question : I saw another forum about tapering antidepressant before benzo. Since my ultimate goal is to taper off my 8mg Prozac, should I reinstate klonopin (regardless of new symptoms are klonopin withdrawal, not sure) but if I do that I would then need to stay on klonopin a long time because I don’t intend on decreasing Prozac dose soon unless I determine these newest symptoms are an adverse effect. 
 

side note: still just trying to determine if I should reinstate klonopin in general since I was okay until 13 days off  and was using it intermittently 

[Altostrata]

You're going to have to stop drinking alcohol.

 

Why are you taking 8mg Prozac?

[Kristinhopes]

3 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

You're going to have to stop drinking alcohol.

 

Why are you taking 8mg Prozac?

Yes, no more alcohol or coffee for sure.all my terrible akathisia and depression started tapering off lexapro at 2.5 mg . I had tinnitus and heart palpitations from lexapro , was scared to reinstate and switched to 10 mg prizac. This was before I had you guys advice or I would have done things differently. I was on 10 mg prizac with some improvement and then backsliding, but I think the intermittent klonopin was also what helped some but not all. Anyways after a trip 6 weeks in I started feeling better and had a little alcohol and then 4 days later ( and 7 days after I had. Taken a klonopin) I could feel akathisia coming back so I made the mistake of updsing prizac to 20 mg for two days. This caused severe panic and insomnia and I had to take my klonopins. After the two days at 20 I skipped a day entirely and went back to 10 for three days and then tapered down to 8 mg thinking maybe the Prozac was still too activating at 10( I had some eye twitching and stuff at 10 initially and tongue twitching at 20). So 10/27 is when I began the 8 mg Prozac and my daily journal notes also began. That night was also the last night I had taken a klonopin. Two days later I started sleeping, had no akathisia that awakened me  for the first time since it all started, had enrrgy, almost a 180, etc.. it progresively got better until this latest relapse about 12 days later. I thought perhaps I found the perfect dose at 8 mg. But now I don’t know if what I’m feeling is 14 day delayed  withdrawal, a 2 mg prizac reduction 14day delayed withdrawal , or just a relapse of the original akathisia from the lexapro withdrawal that never stabilized. I’ve also thought of the possibility that perhaps I’m a slow metabolizer and it’s a delayed adverse reaction to Prozac in general ( since I’ve never been able to stabilize on it seems.. those 12 days before this most recent relapse were the only time I felt truly well) . So for now I’m trying to make no changes since I don’t know what’s what, but I am tempted to reinstate benzo but not sure about this given I don’t know if it’s the cause. I’m hoping it just a short term destabilization from the alcohol and I can power through. But I’m thinking if it lasts more than a week I may reinstate the klonopin while I’m still kind of in the reinstatement window. 

[Altostrata]

Please do not disregard the effect of the alcohol. It has set you back considerably. It may take a couple of weeks for the last episode to settle down.

 

Please be sure to take the same amount of Prozac at the same time each day and continue to post daily notes, including Klonopin, if you take it, and your sleep pattern.

[Kristinhopes]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Please do not disregard the effect of the alcohol. It has set you back considerably. It may take a couple of weeks for the last episode to settle down.

 

Please be sure to take the same amount of Prozac at the same time each day and continue to post daily notes, including Klonopin, if you take it, and your sleep pattern.

Thanks.. any advice on if/ when I should reinstate klonopin? Also, I should just stay at the Prozac 8 mg, not updose back to 9 or 10?  I’m almost wondering if the reason I felt healed finally for a little over a week there was the cumulative doses of the tens, 8s, and 20s giving me around an average of 12/mg Prozac in my bloodstream (not sure if that is how it works)... so the thought crossed my mind maybe something like 12 is my good dose.   After two weeks at the 8 mg it leveled out more at an average of 8/mg daily and caused my reaction. But that’s probably now how it works. It probably is the alcohol and hopefully is temporary. So stay at 8 mg Prozac and then klonopin is just a judgement call, is that correct? Thanks 

[Altostrata]

We need to see what your baseline is at 8mg Prozac. Every time you make a drug change or drink alcohol, you cause your symptom pattern to change, possibly with adverse reactions.

 

It could be that 8mg Prozac is enough, and letting your system settle down is the key to your stabilizing.

 

It would be best if you to hang in without random benzo doses, which can backfire, and let your system settle down. If you continue to make drug changes, we may not be able to help you.

 

We need to see those daily notes, at least 24 hours at a time, for at least a few days to see which way your system is going.

[Kristinhopes]

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

We need to see what your baseline is at 8mg Prozac. Every time you make a drug change or drink alcohol, you cause your symptom pattern to change, possibly with adverse reactions.

 

It could be that 8mg Prozac is enough, and letting your system settle down is the key to your stabilizing.

 

It would be best if you to hang in without random benzo doses, which can backfire, and let your system settle down. If you continue to make drug changes, we may not be able to help you.

 

We need to see those daily notes, at least 24 hours at a time, for at least a few days to see which way your system is going.

Got it. Thanks. I have not made any changes since going down to 8 and stopping klonopin on same day which 2 1/2 weeks ago. I don’t intend to anymore without you all’s guidance. I am having a nice window this evening and enjoying it while it lasts. I have been keeping notes but will wait a few days to post them.

[Altostrata]

A window is a good sign. Do your best to keep calm during the blips, which you might still get.

[Shep]

Kristin, since it's not known if you're dependent on the benzo, I'm with Alto when she says best to try to avoid it. This is especially true if you're able to sleep at night. Please let us know how you're doing. 

[Kristinhopes]

I’m back. I went a solid 13 days starting to feel better since last episode. Well kinda, last weekend I had a night of nausea and threw up on what would have been 28 days since the decrease from 10 mg to 8 mg Prozac and last benzo usage. felt like withdrawal but that subsided after that one night and more increasing depression was starting to creep back in off and on the past few days . I still never got rid of early morning awakenings and so was not getting more than 5 or 6 hours of sleep. I have only had decaf coffee so no cilaffrine other than what is in that and no alcohol. Diet has been bad though due to thanksgiving. Anyways, last night.. day 36 since prizac decrease and last benzo I got zero hours of sleep. I also started having more restlessness and kinda of panicy feeling beginning at 5 am the past few days though I would not say akathisia like before. However I have not really had these panic attack feelings much during this withdrawal. Granted the benzos were likely helping. This morning I have been having horrible anxiety and panic and it was my first night ever of a total of zero sleep. I feel like I should feel more tired than I do too. Should I increase Prozac closer to 10, reinstate benzo, decrease Prozac, or do nothing? My other thought is it could be a protracted withdrawal still from my lexapro I stopped before switching to Prozac in September 20th, since a couple weeks before that was when the hell rollercoaster began. Unfortunately too many factors to know what’s causing what. What if I continue to not sleep? Pretty crushed and scared about continuing relapses . 

[Kristinhopes]

Maybe I need medication forever, but at this point I seem treatment resistant. Feeling lost. I did get about 7 hours last night as opposed to the zero the night before but massively depressed. Just started period yesterday so hoping it’s contributing and will ease but this is a very hard battle and I don’t know what to do. I have a three year old that I want desperately to be more alive for. If I could find a med to stabilize on for him I would and would put off tapering for many more years, but I can’t seem to stabilize. I wish I never came off the lexapro, that I just dealt with the tinnitus and heart palpitations, that was the last time I was feeling decent. Should I reinstate it? It’s been two and a half months. But now I added this stupid prizac to the mix. I’m drowning.

[Kristinhopes]

I wanted to add this is a more panicy depression with burning anxiety in body. Very worried about this turning more and ending up in mental hospital. I feel like I’m losing my mind

[Shep]

On 11/30/2020 at 8:01 AM, Kristinhopes said:

Diet has been bad though due to thanksgiving.

 

On 12/1/2020 at 7:18 AM, Kristinhopes said:

Just started period yesterday so hoping it’s contributing and will ease but this is a very hard battle and I don’t know what to do

 

I wouldn't make any drug changes if you feel that eating the wrong foods led to this wave, as well as starting your period. Once you return to your regular diet and your cycle is over, things will even out. 

 

Did you consume any alcohol or caffeine or was it just too much sugar and carbs? 

 

18 hours ago, Kristinhopes said:

I wanted to add this is a more panicy depression with burning anxiety in body. Very worried about this turning more and ending up in mental hospital. I feel like I’m losing my mind

 

You mentioned starting your period and eating a poor diet, which led to a bad night without sleep. So now you're dooming yourself to a mental hospital. 

 

Stop it! This is catastrophic thinking. Please see:

 

Dealing with Emotional Spirals

 

One of the best ways of handling catastrophic thinking is here:

 

"Change the channel" - dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

To engage in catastrophic thoughts is to get caught up in drama, which will only make yourself sick. It's not worth it. This is a brilliant post by Brassmonkey on how to Acknowledge, Accept, and Float through these kinds of thoughts: 

 

On 10/15/2015 at 2:01 PM, brassmonkey said:

Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  A concept stolen from Clair Weekes.  It is a process for handling situations that you have no control over.  Acknowledging the situation/symptom, getting to know it on a personal level.  Accepting that the situation/symptom is there, its real and there is nothing you can do about it. Letting the Situation/symptom Float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's sort of like dealing with an unwanted house guest.  At first you get to know them and make them comfortable.  Then you realize they are not making any effort to leave and there is nothing you can do, but ignore them as best as you can until they go away.

 

[Kristinhopes]

22 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

 

I wouldn't make any drug changes if you feel that eating the wrong foods led to this wave, as well as starting your period. Once you return to your regular diet and your cycle is over, things will even out. 

 

Did you consume any alcohol or caffeine or was it just too much sugar and carbs? 

 

 

You mentioned starting your period and eating a poor diet, which led to a bad night without sleep. So now you're dooming yourself to a mental hospital. 

 

Stop it! This is catastrophic thinking. Please see:

 

Dealing with Emotional Spirals

 

One of the best ways of handling catastrophic thinking is here:

 

"Change the channel" - dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

To engage in catastrophic thoughts is to get caught up in drama, which will only make yourself sick. It's not worth it. This is a brilliant post by Brassmonkey on how to Acknowledge, Accept, and Float through these kinds of thoughts: 

 

 

Thank you for your response. It is very hard to have continual relapses because it I almost like being reintroduced to a ptsd trigger. Each morning To midday since the zero hours of sleep.. my first night ever of zero hours.. (today is day 3 after that night.. although I felt the backsliding before)  I feel like I have mental akathisia and a new type of panic I have not experienced thus far since this crap started in September. Also the nausea night the week prior. That’s why I was concerned it may be a delayed withdrawal from the Prozac dose change (or benzo withdrawal or returning wave from the original lexapro) . Hopefully it is just a blip from hormones and food and I will experience a window Again. I am considering an intensive outpatient therapy program but don’t know how much good that will do since I know they will encourage more meds and that is something I’m highly skeptical if at this point. It’s just really hard when you want to be present to raise your small child. It’s heartbreaking. It’s the hardest part for me to deal with actually. I got around 5 1/2 hours last night. Son woke me up at 330 and I could not go back to sleep. No, I did not have alcohol or caffeine other than decaf coffee . I will not have those things. Diet still needs improvement but better than last week at thanksgiving. I also had the week off and went back to work which may have triggered this some but I have to work and I didn’t seem to be too stressed that I perceived about going back to work but maybe. I’m just questioning how I will live without meds since it’s all I have known (steroids as a child for asthma and antidepressants for 20 years since a teen) is my brain capable? I tend to obsessively ruminate that ends in depression that’s y I went on meds originally so questioning my ability to fix that without meds.  Add in a child . A teaching job, and this trauma.. but the other option is meds which could make things worse , so I get fearful and stuck and catastrophic ideas. I’m trying to stay strong . This is definitely the worst months of my life. 

[Kristinhopes]

Considering a fast taper off the Prozac. I am feeling an agitated akathisia, restlessness, and severe depression with suicidal ideation, but know I will not act on it. I developed akathisia and severe depression three weeks after dropping to 2.5 lexapro, I then switched to Prozac for this reason. Not a great idea but I did. I had waves and windows since then. However it’s been 5 weeks  after dropping from 10 mg to 8 mg Prozac after 5 weeks on the Prozac due to twitching and feeling too activated. I started to have yet another wave but this one is a bit different . I have sudden urges to physically kick and rock my body fast, clench my jaws, feel like hitting a wall or scream, cry, restless legs, and maybe  worse depression yet ( I don’t know it was possible to get worse but it feels it is) as well as worsening sleep. I am scared that what I had before was withdrawal akathisia and that this is Prozac induced akathisia. Meditation is impossible right now even though it used to help some and I used to be pretty good at it.  So hence why I am considering getting off it. I can’t find stability on it and I am getting worse suddenly . I don’t even have the late afternoon windows anymore during this last wave. I find myself in a different world almost staring at a wall lost.  I will probably get withdrawal akathisia too is my predicament. Truly a nightmare situation. I have truly never been so terrified in my life. It’s insane how far I have fallen from my baseline due to these meds. I feel like I am

going to get fired by my psychiatrist and this board because I’m so helpless. So lonely. 

[Kristinhopes]

Maybe fast taper the Prozac and reinstate the lexapro at low dose? It’s been almost three months now. Nobody here has ever advised that even when I was in that window to me but I have read that as something on others’ posts. Just so scared of Prozac withdrawal in addition now because that’s what this could be too since also having weird rolling mini panic attack feelings. 

[NeedMoreHope]

Kristinhopes,

  I am in the exact same spot as you - not knowing if the Prozac is causing the worsening, or if I'm in withdrawal akathisia.  And if we go off the Prozac too fast, then will we be put back into that akathisia.  Hoping someone can give us guidance here.  I don't want to keep poisoning my body but I also don't want to do something stupid and go into another cold turkey reaction.   I understand where you are, for sure.  We can do this - just takes time to figure it out.

[Kristinhopes]

Crickets this weak.  anyways, I clearly can’t stabilize the lexapro withdrawal on the Prozac . So if unable to stabilize when do you start tapering Prozac? 

[Kristinhopes]

Also is the ten percent rule even for short term. ? I’ve been on Prozac not quite three months. If I do the ten percent rule that would be taking over two years on a medicine I’ve been on less than theee months. Thanks 

[Shep]

19 hours ago, Kristinhopes said:

Also is the ten percent rule even for short term. ? I’ve been on Prozac not quite three months. If I do the ten percent rule that would be taking over two years on a medicine I’ve been on less than theee months. Thanks 

 

If you've been on an antidepressant for a month, you should consider yourself dependent. Unless you're having an adverse reaction, then the 10% rule applies. 

 

You have a 20 year history of drugging, Kristin. There's no quick way out of this. Your brain adapted to these drugs. You've only been on the last of a series of drugs for 3 months, but you need to consider the overall picture. 

 

Please see:

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain

 

20 hours ago, Kristinhopes said:

Crickets this weak.  anyways, I clearly can’t stabilize the lexapro withdrawal on the Prozac . So if unable to stabilize when do you start tapering Prozac? 

 

Please re-read my post here:

 

On 12/2/2020 at 8:11 AM, Shep said:

I wouldn't make any drug changes if you feel that eating the wrong foods led to this wave, as well as starting your period. Once you return to your regular diet and your cycle is over, things will even out. 

 

 

[Kristinhopes]

4 hours ago, Shep said:

 

If you've been on an antidepressant for a month, you should consider yourself dependent. Unless you're having an adverse reaction, then the 10% rule applies. 

 

You have a 20 year history of drugging, Kristin. There's no quick way out of this. Your brain adapted to these drugs. You've only been on the last of a series of drugs for 3 months, but you need to consider the overall picture. 

 

Please see:

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain

 

 

Please re-read my post here:

 

 

 

Thank you for responding. I have not made changes yet since this wave other than adding in some magnesium. My period is now over , my diet is mostly resumed to normal, it’s day 6 of this wave, still waking up earlier than ever with akathisia, inner tremors, and burning muscles. No more than 4 hours each night and no afternoon windows as previous: I don’t think it’s the food or period causing it at this point. I think it’s either a worsening of lexapro withdrawal wave or a reaction to having dropped from 10 mg Prozac to 8 mg Prozac at 5 week mark and then having a 5 week delayed reaction, or possibly I am a slow metabolizer of prizac and am having an adverse reaction. I just feel like if the Prozac has not helped my symptoms it would be best to deal with the original lexapro symptoms and not also have to add a two year taper of a med that is not helping and that apparently I’ll never stabilize on and that had some scary adverse effects upon starting now looking back .. eye twitch and arm twitchthe first two weeks at 10 .. tongue twitch when I upped to 20 for two days that went away a few days after dropping to 8.  Worried this means I am having possible akathathisua and soon traduce dyskinesia the the Prozac too. I have had some twitches this week on face or eyebrow but nothing too unusual for me unlike the twitches I mentioned a couple sentences back ( I had never had a tongue twitch before.. it was definitely from the 20 mg) . I guess what I’m saying is y stay on Prozac if it’s doing nothing for the instability I had from the lexapro taper and possibly making things worse? If I am going to suffer so much, y not suffer off the Prozac rather than on and prolonging this? I understand it’s to find stability before tapering but what does one do when no stability is to be found and perhaps worsening?

[Kristinhopes]

By the way, since I began this thread October 23rd (4 weeks into stopping lexapro and starting prizac) nobody ever mentioned if  I should try dropping Prozac and reinstating lexapro at small dose. Should I have done that? Should I /could I still do that?

[Shep]

On 12/5/2020 at 10:21 AM, Kristinhopes said:

By the way, since I began this thread October 23rd (4 weeks into stopping lexapro and starting prizac) nobody ever mentioned if  I should try dropping Prozac and reinstating lexapro at small dose. Should I have done that? Should I /could I still do that?

 

I don't know if that's a good idea or not. When you first came on the forum, you were still using a benzo, which complicated things.

 

This is from your signature:

 

Quote

feb 2020 lexapro 10 mg but developed tinnitus in May also frequent heart palpitations but had this with Zoloft too. Started tapering off lex in June and at 2.5 Mg taper in sept I got severe morning anxiety , possibly Akathisia and insomnia and worse depression ever. Held that for three weeks then dropped and switched to Prozac 10 mg where I have been for 33 days and still dealing with depression and insomnia and morning Akathisia type symptoms. 

 

What dose did you jump off the Lexapro at? Did you stop at 2.5 mg? 

 

In your signature, you also state that you were using Ativan and then Klonopin to help with your symptoms of Lexapro withdrawal, so it's hard to tell if your current symptoms of withdrawal from Prozac are really worse than when you were coming off Lexapro or if it feels that way without the aid of a benzo. Since you're no longer taking a benzo, going back on Lexapro may be a different experience than before. 

 

It looks like you're dealing with a very destabilized nervous system. Whether it will help or hurt to backtrack on the Prozac is unclear. 

 

I'll ask the other mods for their opinions. In the meantime, please fix your signature - remove the narrative and simply list your drugs with the date started, name of drug, dose, and date stopped (if you're no longer taking it). Right now, there's no way to know when you stopped taking Lexapro, which the moderators need to know. Here is an example:

 

Quote

 

Example:

2001–2002 paroxetine 
2003  citalopram 
2004  paroxetine
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to 2016 Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg

 

 

And here is a direct link to your signature:

 

Account Settings - Create or Update Your Signature

 

Question - are you still having the tongue movements or any other involuntary movements? 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, Kristin. 5.5 hours of sleep may not feel like enough but it's not too bad for antidepressant withdrawal syndrome. Waking early in the morning is very common, it's due to the normal morning cortisol surge.

 

When you threw up, did you throw up your Prozac dose? Otherwise, did you accidentally skip a dose or take one off schedule? Are you using a liquid to take 8mg? How are you measuring your dose? Are you taking any other drugs or vitamins?

 

How do you feel before and after taking Prozac each day?

 

Many women find their symptoms get worse around their periods. Did you used to have insomnia at times in your menstrual cycle?

[Kristinhopes]

3 hours ago, Shep said:

 

I don't know if that's a good idea or not. When you first came on the forum, you were still using a benzo, which complicated things.

 

This is from your signature:

 

 

What dose did you jump off the Lexapro at? Did you stop at 2.5 mg? 

 

In your signature, you also state that you were using Ativan and then Klonopin to help with your symptoms of Lexapro withdrawal, so it's hard to tell if your current symptoms of withdrawal from Prozac are really worse than when you were coming off Lexapro or if it feels that way without the aid of a benzo. Since you're no longer taking a benzo, going back on Lexapro may be a different experience than before. 

 

It looks like you're dealing with a very destabilized nervous system. Whether it will help or hurt to backtrack on the Prozac is unclear. 

 

I'll ask the other mods for their opinions. In the meantime, please fix your signature - remove the narrative and simply list your drugs with the date started, name of drug, dose, and date stopped (if you're no longer taking it). Right now, there's no way to know when you stopped taking Lexapro, which the moderators need to know. Here is an example:

 

 

And here is a direct link to your signature:

 

Account Settings - Create or Update Your Signature

 

Question - are you still having the tongue movements or any other involuntary movements? 

 

 

 

No, I have had some pins and needles around my lips here and there but trying to tell myself it’s just anxiety and stress, some eye twitches here and there and leg twitches here and there but nothing too unusual that I had not had prior to lexapro and Prozac. I have had a little burning feeling on my tongue and keep checking to see if it’s twitching because I’m scared but I think I am biting my tongue and overthinking every feeling due to stress and being scared . So the actual near constant right eye buzz I had when first start Prozac 10 mg for two weeks has subsided and the tinguevtwitcges I had for a few days when I went up to 20 mg for two days have also not returned. I have had a couple jerks when laying in bed but I think it’s more a panic or stress thing.