Clara: Desperat after coming off Fluoxetine

[Clara]

Hi 

I really need some help or some insight and support. I seem to find no real information in my country, Sweden, about withdrawal from antidepressants or how to come off them. So here I am hoping to find some clarity in what is happening to me. I have been on Fluoxetine basically since 2012 in varying doses. For the last couple of years, 30mg. Which was a dose my then therapist helped get down to. I have been holding this dose waiting for the right time to come off it. So I started in June 2020 by reducing by 5mg to 25mg. I continued reducing by 5mg sometimes once a month and somtimes every two weeks and stayed longer in doses as I was reaching zero. In the end I went from 5mg to 2,5mg and held that for approximately a month. I was done in five to six months. Doctors  here consider that a slow rate, their schedule is faster. So I thought I was doing this right and at a slow pace. It felt like I was doing ok. I was down to zero in November. Panikattacks sometimes came after that but I felt as if I was handling it. Now I feel like a wreck! It started about three weeks ago mid-January, so 2,5 months after I was down to zero. Every day is a suffering with severe anxiety and depression, also my body is shaking and I just want to cry.  I would like to know if anyone has any insight to what could be happening. Cloud this has something to do with withdrawal or is it my condition coming back? ( I have been on them because of ocd, depression and anxiety.) I have tried to come of them before on doctors schedules, but failed and they have then told me that I am one of those who needs to be on them. I am going to see a doctor next week but as they don't seem to have proper information I feel like I have to take responsibility myself. I wonder what your opinion about this is? How would you proceed? I feel desperat.

Edited February 4, 2021 by manymoretodays

[Shep]

HI, Clara.

 

Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants.

 

What your describing sounds like withdrawal. 

 

Here is some information on withdrawal to get you started: 

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain

 

Healing from antidepressants. Patterns of recovery video (4 minutes)

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

You may benefit from reinstating a very small amount of Fluoxetine. Please see:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Tips for tapering off fluoxetine (Prozac)

 

Are you taking any other drugs or any supplements?

 

Please add a signature.  Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can. 

• Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
• This is a direct link to your signature:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

As you provide more information, we can better guide you in reinstating and provide other information, as well. 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Clara, and welcome, @Clara

 

And I agree.  This sure sounds like WD(withdrawal).

On 2/3/2021 at 7:01 AM, Clara said:

I was down to zero in November. Panikattacks sometimes came after that but I felt as if I was handling it. Now I feel like a wreck! It started about three weeks ago mid-January, so 2,5 months after I was down to zero. Every day is a suffering with severe anxiety and depression, also my body is shaking and I just want to cry.  I would like to know if anyone has any insight to what could be happening. Cloud this has something to do with withdrawal or is it my condition coming back? ( I have been on them because of ocd, depression and anxiety.) I have tried to come of them before on doctors schedules, but failed and they have then told me that I am one of those who needs to be on them. I am going to see a doctor next week but as they don't seem to have proper information I feel like I have to take responsibility myself. I wonder what your opinion about this is? How would you proceed? I feel desperat.

 

Have you had a chance yet to look at the topics that are linked to, up above?

The reinstatement topic, especially the first post there.  And then, if you decide you would like to reinstate, you may need to just tell the doctor that you would like to start on a very low dose, which they may not think will be helpful.  You can also look at and study the Prozac topic to see the various strengths and forms of it available, and just how to get a low dose, if you do wish to try reinstatement soon.  Best case, if often to reinstate right at the onset of WD(withdrawal) symptoms..........yet even with a late reinstatement you may get some relief of symptoms.  Since it's been about 3 months now, off Prozac(fluoxetine), if it was me, I would not reinstate more than 1 mg.  And then you would need to take that at the same time every day, while making observations, as well.  Often it may be 4-7 days before one notices even slight improvement.  And if you noted feeling much worse, then you would stop the reinstatement.  If it helps, even a little bit, then you stay on it, and once you've achieved some WD stability, can begin to taper off, after some months, using the 10% guidelines.

 

And then there are a few questions for you as well to attend to, in the post above mine.

 

Do you have any Prozac left?

 

We take a harm reduction approach to coming off AD's(antidepressants)

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

so each 10% taper drop is then based on the previous dose, not the starting dose

 

What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

And again, yes, I think you are now dealing with withdrawal.  Often symptoms like the ones you describe, can be intense, and often extreme, compared to the symptoms you sought care for in the first place. 
Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom check list

 

Neuroemotions

 

Have you noted any improvements, or Windows? 

We do promote non-drug coping as well, to deal with symptoms of WD, as well as symptoms that might have been present, before taking an AD.  You'll see lot's and lot's of coping practices in our Symptoms and Self care forum.  Best to start with some of the top pinned topics there.

 

Do give a try at doing a signature.  You'll see the instructions for that, in the post from Shep, above this one.  That's the portion you'll see below members' posts, and gives us your context of information, concisely, wherever you post on the site.  Very helpful.

 

This is your introduction/journal page where you have now introduced yourself to the community, you can ask questions here regarding your tapering, give updates, and just keep a record of your journey.

 

And best, Love, peace, healing, and growth,

manymoretodays(mmt)

Edited February 6, 2021 by manymoretodays

[Clara]

Thank you so much for answering! I started reinstatement today at 0,5mg. I got my doctor to proscribe me a liquid one, I think it's called Fontex. Do you think that is a good dosage to begin with? I feel very scared and sad because my ocd is starting to get really bad now as well. I will look closer at your messages and put together a message for answering your questions. 

Thank you again so much!

[manymoretodays]

Hi Clara!

And yes, that's just fine to start with a 0.5 mg reinstatement dose.

What is the concentration?  It should say on the label.  How much mg(milligrams)  in how much mL(millileters)?

Here's the pdf for Prozac, INN-fluoxetine that came up, when I googled Fontex, liquid fluoxetine(Prozac is the brand name here in the States).

And it is showing 20 mg in 5 mL as the concentration for Fontex, Sweden.  You'll see that when you scroll down.

 

And so, further calculations result in:  0.5 mg per 0.125 mL.

Did the druggist/pharmacist give you a small syringe to measure out the 0.125 mL of liquid with?

 

Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques

you'll see an image of a 1 mL oral syringe ^

and then stick with the same method of measurement, and timing of taking your reinstatement dose

Tips for tapering off Prozac(fluoxetine)

and am including ^ again, and do take a look at the first post there

 

Did the pharmacist/druggist say how long the liquid is good for.  I'm seeing 14 days, listed in the Prozac topic above.......for a homemade liquid though, and so yours may be good for a longer period.  I would ask those who dispense it, for this information, if you have not already been told, or it may have an expiration/expiry date on the bottle.

 

2 hours ago, Clara said:

Thank you so much for answering! I started reinstatement today at 0,5mg. I got my doctor to proscribe me a liquid one, I think it's called Fontex. Do you think that is a good dosage to begin with? I feel very scared and sad because my ocd is starting to get really bad now as well. I will look closer at your messages and put together a message for answering your questions. 

Thank you again so much!

 

So.  Do keep some notes during this period.  Keep daily notes of drug schedule and symptoms to track patterns and progress 

You'll see a sample note in the quote in the first post ^, which is nice way to do this

And if you can keep us updated, daily if you'd like, and share your notes in at least a 24 hour period.  Times to the left, drug by name and dose in mg on the right.  Keep going with times on the left, and then any other drugs, or supplements taken by name and dose, as well as symptoms as they occur throughout the day.  Some will just rate symptoms, on a 1-10 type scale.

 

I wonder if some of that OCD, you mention, is increasing, as you may be reading new things and perhaps relating.

See:  Obsessive compulsive disorder or OCD: Repetitive intrusive thoughts, compulsive behaviors

and know that many members here are going through something similar to you

thoughts are just thoughts, they come and go.  Fears about what?  It may take some time, yet I believe in healing........and again, so unfortunate for many of us, that our doctors could not better help with de-prescribing the drugs. 

 

And do your best with updates Clara.  Work through the signature, as well.  Like I said, the reinstatement may help, even just a little with your current symptoms, but it may take some time to appreciate this.  And certainly if you feel like symptoms are increasing, or new symptoms arise, let us know please.  As at that point we might want to re- evaluate the reinstatement, and/or stop it.

 

Your doing great Clara.  Keep us posted/updated.  Ask away, if any questions on all the information.

 

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

[Clara]

Hi

I stared the reinstatement yesterday and got to the same calculations, as you did: 0,125ml. I got an oral syringe form the farmacie. So that is taken care of and I am going to give it a try. I also found a doctor in another city who has been working with these things concerning ssri. He is onboard with trying reinstatement of 0,5mg. And I guess he is going to be my new doctor by phone and mail. I have had doubts about what to do since this experience is absolute hell, I get impulses of just starting the medication again like the other doctors so want me to do. But he was absolutely against that. He said that I have already come a long way and that things will change. He knows how it goes with these doctors and what they usually say and that they want to give you more meds. 

Still I am so scared that I won't make it through. I need hope. I have a little oneyear old, and I just can't stand the thought of not making it. The dread and anxiety is so intense, every day is torture. I did feel a little bit better after speaking with the new as he seems to believe in a resolve for this. And I am so scared of getting taken over by ocd which I have worked so hard on getting through. Sometimes I just want to give up,  I need hope. I will get to the signature and everything. 

Thank you for your support!

[Clara]

I am taking probiotics, iron and omega3 supplements. 

[Shep]

Quote

End of January 2021 oxascand.

 

Clara, you have oxascand listed in your signature but you haven't mentioned it in any of your posts. 

 

Please tell us more about this drug. When did you start taking it, what dose are you on, and how often do you take it? 

 

 

[Clara]

I have had Oxascand,  through the years but never taken it regularly (apart from one time a doctor told me to take it three times a day, but I only did that for a very short time). So it hasn't been a problem. I hadn't taken it for years, but got it again now to get some relief. Or rather to get some sleep.  It is 10mg. I know I can't take it every day. So my plan is to sleep some nights... I tried another medicin that my new doctor prescribed, against tremors, to use only for a week or so. It is not a psychiatric drug. I tried it yesterday but I don't think it will be something for me. 

 

 

[Shep]

Please note you can become dependent on Oxascand even when used periodically. I wouldn't take it more than once a week to prevent this from happening. 

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose. For more, please see:

 

 King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

Instead of Oxascand, you may want to try a bit of melatonin:

 

Melatonin for sleep

 

And these tips may help:

 

Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia Rate this topic

[Clara]

Yesterday was hell, maybe the worst it has been, but then in the evening I felt almost normal. Is this the windows you are talking about?  I forgot to say I take magnesium as well. The supplements are not new to me, I have been taking them for some time. I do breathing exercises and I am very carful with Oxascand. 

[Clara]

is anyone still here?

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, Clara. When did you reinstate 0.5mg fluoxetine? How many doses have you taken?

 

It can take more than 2 weeks for daily dosing of fluoxetine to reach its full effect.

[Clara]

It will be two weeks this Saturday since I started taking 0,5mg/day. I had a question about windows in a message above. Do you think I am experiencing windows?

[Clara]

Hi

I am struggling. I want to know what to do about the microdose of Fluoxetin. I don't know if it helps or not, but I am scared to remove it. Is the thought to stay on it and then taper it in a later stage. I would really need som answers about this. 

Please answer.

[Shep]

On 2/17/2021 at 2:40 AM, Clara said:

I had a question about windows in a message above. Do you think I am experiencing windows?

 

Please see:

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

On 2/11/2021 at 7:44 AM, Clara said:

I do breathing exercises and I am very carful with Oxascand. 

 

How often are you taking oxascand? Some of your symptoms may be rebound or interdose withdrawal symptoms from the benzodiazepine. Please let us know more about when you're taking this drug, such as dates and doses over the past month. 

[Clara]

Hi Shep

I have only been taking four Oxascand. One 2/2, one 4/2, one 7/2 and one 8/2. Since then I haven't been taking them and I didn't take them before that. I decided agains them. Since I feel really bad every day I am just powering through. The only thing I take now besides the supplements listed above is the microdose of Fluoxetin. I am struggling every day but in the afternoon I usually feel better. 

 

[Shep]

18 hours ago, Clara said:

I have only been taking four Oxascand. One 2/2, one 4/2, one 7/2 and one 8/2. Since then I haven't been taking them and I didn't take them before that. I decided agains them.

 

This is good news, Clara. I'm glad you decided against them. I've updated your signature to reflect these 4 doses. 

 

18 hours ago, Clara said:

The only thing I take now besides the supplements listed above is the microdose of Fluoxetin. I am struggling every day but in the afternoon I usually feel better. 

 

Do you feel better or worse after you take the supplements? What time of the day do you take fluoxetine and what time(s) of the day do you take the supplements? 

 

Are the afternoon windows getting better over time or has this pattern been the same? 

[Clara]

Thank you Shep

I take Fluoxetin at 9am and the supplements at lunchtime except for Magnesium which I take before bedtime. I don't think I feel anything special after taking the supplements. I'm not sure. Magnesium helps with restless legs during the night, so that's why I take that. The supplements are not new to me.

I am not sure about the windows either, some days have better windows. And yesterday I did not really have a window. Yesterday was really bad. So I guess I am not really seeing any progress right now...