Wagen : Insomnia, chronic pain, tinnitus - mirtazapine?

[Shep]

On 2/27/2021 at 2:59 PM, Wagen said:

I know it's anxiety, I'm supposed to to go to bed in about 1h now and of course I'm freaking out. 

 

If you feel that anxiety is driving at least part of the insomnia (in addition to general withdrawal), please focus on non-drug coping skills aimed at lessening anxiety. 

 

Nomansland just posted a great video for helping you let go of anxious thoughts. And there are many more out there on YouTube. 

 

You may also want to check out Dr. Claire Weeks work. She comes highly recommended for helping people learn how to manage and cope with anxiety. 

 

Dr. Claire Weekes - How To Recover From Anxiety

 

And this is a great short video on acceptance. 

 

Dr. Claire Weekes: How to accept the physical symptoms of nervous illness video (1.5 minutes)

 

And you can find loads more out there on YouTube by googling Dr. Claire Weekes. 

 

Dr.Claire Weekes - How to overcome Anxiety - (YouTube - 1 hour, 20 minutes)

 

You may find that stopping regularly throughout the day to relax and breathe can help. For breathing exercises, please check out Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn's mindfulness videos. Here's a short one you can use throughout the day as needed:

 

The Breathing Space by Jon Kabat Zinn video (4 minutes)

 

[Wagen]

@Shep,

 

Thank you so much for the links, I will research them all.

 

I listened to the short video by Dr. Weeks - I think that I have to work on this. The insomnia and the emerging withdrawal symptoms are scaring me so much. It's so hard to cope with them. 

 

It seemed impossible to sleep without tinnitus and head buzzing. Now it seems even more difficult to ever sleep like a normal human being. Do you think it's possible they will ever go away or at least lessen? Can body sleep normally on spite all these physical symptoms? 

 

As for my reduction - I used mirtazapine 11,5 for two days and 7,5 for one day since we last spoke. I haven't noticed any change. But I read that it takes 4 days for me brain to notice any changes so probably it's to early. I'm so scared the tinnitus and buzzing will get worse. Or a new symptom will arrive. I'm noticing the anxiety and very slow brain in general. I can't concentrate and think well and my short term memory is bad. 

 

I expect horrible insomnia next week. 

[Wagen]

On 2/27/2021 at 9:44 PM, Nomansland said:

Hi @Wagen,

 

this sleep meditation helps me to calm down my system sometimes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JmAIaa8IF8&feature=youtu.be

Maybe give it a try? And look at the sleep tips thread that Shep posted. I can really help!

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

@Nomansland@Nomansland thank you so much, I will try it!!!

 

[Wagen]

On 2/27/2021 at 4:11 PM, Gridley said:

Please try to keep in mind that though it may not seem so to you, your system is healing.  It's a slow and frustrating process, but you will heal.

@Gridley,

I hope you are right. 

 

I was at the point when I started to somehow accept the chronic pain I have in my back but that was in January when I had huge worsening of the tinnitus and the head buzzing started. It brought a huge wave of anxiety bc now I feel totally unsecure and scared what new symptom I can possibly have. It's now so much harder to sleep with the ringing and electrical buzzing. It feels like my head is on electric current. 

 

Do you think I can heal from this?? It came out of nowhere.

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Wagen said:

Do you think I can heal from this?? It came out of nowhere.

These withdrawal symptoms come "out of the blue" and there is no way to predict what they will be or how long they will last.  Some come and go and come again then disappear.  New ones can appear.  They are extremely unpleasant, as I well know, but if you can, try not to be afraid of what may come next.  Your withdrawal symptoms are perfectly normal. Tinnitus and head buzzing are typical symptoms.  Acceptance is a big key is coping with withdrawal.  

 

Yes, I think you will heal from this.  It has been our experience on this site that we do all heal.  Please read the following so that you will have a better idea of what you're experiencing:

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

These explain the healing process really well.

 

Brain Remodelling 

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

 

 

[Wagen]

30 minutes ago, Gridley said:

These withdrawal symptoms come "out of the blue" and there is no way to predict what they will be or how long they will last.  Some come and go and come again then disappear.  New ones can appear.  They are extremely unpleasant, as I well know, but if you can, try not to be afraid of what may come next.  Your withdrawal symptoms are perfectly normal. Tinnitus and head buzzing are typical symptoms.  Acceptance is a big key is coping with withdrawal.  

 

Yes, I think you will heal from this.  It has been our experience on this site that we do all heal.  Please read the following so that you will have a better idea of what you're experiencing:

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

These explain the healing process really well.

 

Brain Remodelling 

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

 

 

@Gridley thank you so much for the information and resources.

 

I hope you are right. I'm just so scared that my brain cannon make it. I see people here who taper so slowly and rightly so and I just jumped out of such high amounts. I was so stupid to believe doctors. I remember asking if I can stop taking the olanzapine and clonazepam so abruptly. They said of course, just stop. 

I believed them  I was stupid. 

 

Based on the remodeling process, is it possible that the fast jump down caused permanent damage??? 

[Gridley]

24 minutes ago, Wagen said:

fast jump down caused permanent damage??? 

No, the damage is not permanent.  

 

Many people here jumped from higher amounts than you and are doing fine.  Shep, one of our administrators, cold-turkeyed or fast tapered from 30 years of several powerful drugs and is doing very well.  Here is her success story with a link to the story of her journey off these drugs.

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

 

 

[Wagen]

@marie123,

 

Marie, I read your thread and saw that you started having sleeping problems because of tinnitus.

 

I have developed tinnitus as a withdrawal symptom after already suffering from insomnia. 

 

Unfortunately, the little sleep I have is so disturbed by it.

 

Do you maybe have some recommendations on how to cope?

 

Thank you so much!

[ChessieCat]

Have you seen this topic:

 

tinnitus-what-does-all-that-noise-mean

 

See the last post that I quoted from another member.

 

[Wagen]

1 minute ago, ChessieCat said:

Have you seen this topic:

 

tinnitus-what-does-all-that-noise-mean

 

See the last post that I quoted from another member.

 

@ChessieCat

 

Thank you so much, yes, I read the entire thread and also checked the RockSteady Program. 

 

Im trying to implement all the advices but since Im feeling worse and worse, I wonder whether its at all possible for the brain to sleep with such intense ringing without being sedated. I had horrible sleeping problems even before tinnitus and now its a whole new level.

 

Apparently, the habituation for a healthy person takes between 6 to 18 months. 

 

I definitely dont consider myself heatlhy, so i wonder if my brain is capable of habituation at all.

 

Do you suffer from tinnitus? If yes, do you maybe have something that really worked for you for sleep??

 

Thank you so much!

 

[Wagen]

On 3/1/2021 at 10:10 PM, Gridley said:

No, the damage is not permanent.  

 

Many people here jumped from higher amounts than you and are doing fine.  Shep, one of our administrators, cold-turkeyed or fast tapered from 30 years of several powerful drugs and is doing very well.  Here is her success story with a link to the story of her journey off these drugs.

 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

 

 

Thank you @Gridley for the encouragement!

[ChessieCat]

Yes I do suffer from tinnitus.  I also suffer from an over active mind which can make it difficult to get to sleep.  I've been listening to podcasts and audio books on an mp3 player at night for about 4 years now.  It helps me to stay more relaxed when I am in bed and helps to stop me from tossing and turning which means that even if I do not sleep much my body is getting some rest.  I've also learned not to stress about trying to get to sleep and accept that there will be times that I don't get as much sleep as I would like to.

[Wagen]

19 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Yes I do suffer from tinnitus.  I also suffer from an over active mind which can make it difficult to get to sleep.  I've been listening to podcasts and audio books on an mp3 player at night for about 4 years now.  It helps me to stay more relaxed when I am in bed and helps to stop me from tossing and turning which means that even if I do not sleep much my body is getting some rest.  I've also learned not to stress about trying to get to sleep and accept that there will be times that I don't get as much sleep as I would like to.

@ChessieCat thank you for your recommendations!

 

Ive been struggling with drugs to sleep for 9 months now. Its only making me worse, including the tinnitus, so at this point, I decided I will just try to go through it no matter what, no more drugs.  I hope the acceptance part will be helpful when the anxiety comes. I had many nights of zero sleep and I know where it can drive me.

[Wagen]

@Marija

 

Marija, just wanted to support you in your struggles. I also have been fighting insomnia for many months now, together with many withdrawal symptoms.

 

I have tried to reinstate mirtazapine for two weeks now but then decided to do rapid taper - I dont expect it to ever help me. 

 

I will try to face to insomnia and hope that my body will take the sleep when it needs to.

 

Have you tried this approach? The longest I went without sleep has been three days for me. Then I was always given something to sleep. 

 

What happened to you after you didnt sleep for 5 days in December? Did your body eventually sleep?

 

I feel so so exhausted from all these drugs and just want to heal. I just dont know if its possible at all without sleeping.

 

Im thinking on you and understand how you feel.

[Wagen]

@Rosetta

 

Rosetta, I read your posts to newmom's thread. I, similar to her, suffer from horrible postpartum insomnia. I've been given drugs for 9 months now, including very strong ones during hospitalization. 

 

At this point, I said to myself, that I have to stop with the drugs for once and all because they only make me more sick. 

 

Given your similar experience, do you think it can get better? I dont know what is WD insomnia at this point or what is a result of tinnitus that I developed during the WD.

 

I just finished rapid taper of mirtazapine which i took for 20 days.

 

Thank you very much for your thoughts.

[Rosetta]

Wagen,

 

I’m very sorry to see how you have been treated.  You are not crazy!!  Do not allow anyone to tell you that after x amount of time after giving birth you should be sleeping!!  That might be true if you had never been medicated (and maybe not), but I agree with the other commentators that you are experiencing insomnia because of the various drugs you have been given.

It is no surprise that your doctors are not listening to you or believing you.  It’s absolutely infuriating, but it is very common.  If I could somehow put those doctors through what I have been through, I would.  Do not allow them to invalidate you!  You are not sleeping for the same reason the rest of us are not sleeping — our nervous systems have been poisoned.

 

Here’s the good news: yes, you will heal.  It’s miraculous, but you will.  Your little boy will have his mother.  That is what you need to keep as your focus.  I am here only because of my daughter.  There is just no way I could have left her here without me.

 

A lot of what we say won’t really get through to you.  We understand.  However, it’s true that you can survive without sleep.  I will never convince you of that.  I know that.  You will only know it after you have survived.  You can also survive the horrible activated nervous system, the tinnitus, the fear — all of it.   You have to take life one hour at a time, maybe one minute at a time when it’s really bad.  The trick is to do something, anything besides think about how miserable you are.

 

Gridley’s list of things to do that he put in italics — use that.  That is your bible.  Be downright religious about it.  
 

You need sunlight, you need to walk - everyday.
 

As for bedtime routine, go through the motions like a ritual every night — Turn on the heat if necessary to keep the bedroom warm, take the Epsom salt bath, put on soft pajamas, drink chamomile tea (no sugar), put on white noise or soothing music, lie down in a dark room, put on the sleep mask.  Then, when you can’t stand to lie there any longer, read a real paper book (not a kindle) or watch tv, or listen to a book on a kindle or CD.  After a while, have more chamomile, put on the white noise or music, lie down, put on the mask, and try again. You will not sleep.  It’s ok! Then, read again or watch tv.  It’s OK!!  
 

It’s ok to be exhausted the next day.  It’s ok to do the bare minimum.  It’s ok to let your husband take care of you and the baby.  The point is to survive. Taking new drugs will be risking your survival.  They will further harm your nervous system.  Your body can’t handle the dose the doctor will prescribe.  You have iatrogenic ally induced dysautonomia whether the doctor wants to admit he did this to you or not.  Dysautonomia requires that you be very, very gentle with your system.

 

If you can be ultra consistent with your bedtime experience.  Use the same chamomile tea, the same pajamas, the same sheets (get a second set just like them if you must), the same white noise or music, and the same mask every single night without fail.  Using the same chamomile tea, the same scented laundry detergent to wash the pajamas and sheets, the same scent in the bath every day will help you tremendously.  Your body needs the consistency — the feel of the pajamas, the smell of the detergent, the taste of the tea, the sound of the white noise or music.  Over and over always the same.  You will train your body to sleep again.

 

And no, drugs are not the way out.  No new drugs!!!  Nothing you are not addicted to at this time.  TINY rescue doses of the benzo must be spaced very, very far apart.  Once a week at the most.  Less if possible.  Yes, you are going to feel “crazy” without sleep, but you have to keep your “eye on the ball:” survival without benzo addiction.  The benzo addiction must be avoided.  Once you are addicted, you have to take it consistently and taper it.  
 

Tiny amounts of a benzo in a nervous system as traumatized as yours will be enough.  Never over-do it by even a little.  You may not actually sleep, but you want to feel calm enough to stay out of the hospital.  That is the only goal.  I can’t really tell how I regret trusting my doctor about the benzo being “less addictive.”  It is not!

 

As for the mirtazapine, I don’t know.  If it were me, I would taper off the way Shep suggested if using it does not help you sleep.  Do not take a higher dose.  A higher dose might hurt you badly.  It’s not a sleeping pill.  You are in withdrawal from 4 different drugs it seems.  Your best best, in my opinion, is to avoid addiction to mirtazapine (and, yes, your doctor would say there is no such thing as addiction to an AD.).  

However, you might be addicted all ready?  Did you start the quick taper yet? Or keep it and has it been a month?  If so, no worries, you will just have to use it very consistently, never raise the dose, and taper off later when you have “stabilized” on it.  Once you start sleeping again, and yes, it’s possible while on an AD, you can ask for help in tapering. (Stabilization happens both on and off drugs as long as there is no adverse reaction going on.)
 

You will get well.  You have to treat your body very gently, but you are going to be fine one day.  That day will come sooner if you are careful now.

 

Rosetta
 

 

[Wagen]

@Rosetta, 

 

Thank you so so much for your message!! It meant a lot to me to read it!!! 

 

Thank you for your kind words and encouragement. 

 

I'm and will continue trying as you say. It seems that my system is so destabilized that my sleep is just impossible. I don't know what more then to hope for miracle I could do. 

 

Thank you one more time! 

 

I'm wishing you the best with your journey!! 

 

 

[Wagen]

@Shep, @Altostrata, @Gridley, @Erell,

 

Update: It's been 4 days since I finished the rapid taper of mirtazapine. 

 

Since I stopped, I slept: 0 hour, 5 hours, 0 hour, 5 hours. 

 

I continue to have the tinnitus and electric head buzzing (as well as the chronic back pain) 

 

I guess now I have to wait. 

 

I'm using the fish oil and magnesium. 

 

As for the sleep - in the hospital, all doctors argued that without sleep my body cannot heal - > therefore I was given all these strong drugs to sleep. 

 

What do you think about that? 

 

I also wanted to ask about the following pattern: I noticed that in the evening, from around 5pm, I usually have this wave of energy that comes out of nowhere and making it hard to calm before sleeping. I'm these moments, it feels like a glimpse of myself. Why is that? 

 

Thank you so much for your advice. 

[Shep]

3 hours ago, Wagen said:

As for the sleep - in the hospital, all doctors argued that without sleep my body cannot heal - > therefore I was given all these strong drugs to sleep. 

 

What do you think about that? 

 

I think if you truly believed that, you wouldn't have joined this site. You figured it out already, and that's a good thing. We should all do our own research. The very drugs that they say will heal are drugs that destroy sleep architecture. Doesn't sound like a very solid plan to me. 

 

Many of us go for a long time with disrupted sleep patterns and yet go onto heal. 

 

For more on sleep, please see:

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

For more on people who heal, see:

 

Success stories: Recovery from withdrawal

 

A lot of us who've written success stories dealt with chronic insomnia, but trust that your mind/body knows what is best and with the use of non-drug coping skills, we come out of this okay, or even better than before because we're now armed with non-drug coping skills at the master level. 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Wagen said:

I also wanted to ask about the following pattern: I noticed that in the evening, from around 5pm, I usually have this wave of energy that comes out of nowhere and making it hard to calm before sleeping. I'm these moments, it feels like a glimpse of myself. Why is that? 

 

Symptoms will float around a lot. Please see:

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Since you are feeling "a glimpse of myself" in the evenings, that may indicate a very common symptom pattern - a lot of people feel better in the evenings due to decreased cortisol. Do you feel more symptoms earlier in the day? If so, it could be cortisol at play. Please see:

 

Early-morning waking - managing the morning cortisol spike

 

If you're finding it hard to calm your nervous system before sleep, you may want to check out YouTube for some guided meditations. Here is an example:

 

Guided Meditation Deep sleep | anxiety and insomnia relief | relaxation before bedtime video (21 minutes)

 

Since you're able to tolerate magnesium, you may want to try an epsom salt bath in the evenings, along with some soothing music to unwind. More tips are here:

 

Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

[JesusSavemefromWD]

On 2/26/2021 at 10:08 AM, Mimi79 said:

When I read this, it reminds me something. Few months after the birth of my first girl, I had a period of very intense insomnia. Like you, I wasn’t able to sleep more than 1-2 hours a night, and strangely, I wasn’t tired at all (not physically). I had the feeling it wasn’t normal, so I did a blood test and we find out that I was having a « post partum hyperthyroiditis ».  It last a few weeks, then it settled by itself. At this time, my gp gave me Ativan to help, but knowing the cause removed all my anxiety, so I didn’t use the pills. This kind of thyroïditis after giving birth is very frequent, but undiagnosed because the symptoms are sometimes unnoticeable or misinterpreted. Surely a lot of women have been misdiagnosed with GAD or postpartum depression because of that. If I hadn’t insisted to do the blood test, my Gp was going to medicate me for depression. 

Interesting story and one more proof of how superficial doctors are. You did urself a great favour not using antivan, it’s a nasty drug

[Wagen]

@Iowan,

 

Hi Iowan, 

 

I just read your thread. I have the EXACT same pain like you. I'm so so sorry. I know it's awful. 

 

It all started after my son was born and because it was coupled with severe insomnia, I ended up on all these drugs and in a mess with WD symptoms that I suffer right now. 

 

It's been 10 months and I haven't been able to resolve the pain. I had MRIs done, millions of physiotherapists, massages, and NOTHING works. The pain is constant and never goes away. 

 

Like you, I also suspect that it's probably the cortisol levels that are causing it. 

That is also probably the reason why I cannot sleep until now.

 

Have you been able to find something that works for you? What would you recommend? 

 

Thank you so much. This pain has been at the beginning of my ordeal. Although the insomnia is probably more life threatening at this moment, I also feel that I need to try to do something about the pain. 

 

All the best with your journey!! 

 

[Wagen]

On 3/8/2021 at 12:54 PM, Shep said:

think if you truly believed that, you wouldn't have joined this site. You figured it out already, and that's a good thing. We should all do our own research. The very drugs that they say will heal are drugs that destroy sleep architecture. Doesn't sound like a very solid plan to me. 

 

Many of us go for a long time with disrupted sleep patterns and yet go onto heal. 

 

@Shep,

 

Thank you for this - I hope that by taking a decision not to take any drugs again I won't kill myself. 

 

I know that the drugs don't help with anything that resembles a normal sleep but I'm really concerned about what is my brain doing to me too. 

 

I have had since last Friday 3 zero sleep nights and while there was twice a 5 hour sleep after the zero sleep, last night I slept only 3,5 hours. 

 

And the worst thing is that the I seem to be able to function on this little sleep. I have 10 months old son and while I'm of course incredibly exhausted all the time I seem to be able to look after him, with my partners support of course. 

 

It feels like my body somehow adapted to this little sleep and doesn't have an incentive to become normal. When I don't sleep at all I have these energy rushes going through my body the whole night. When I manage to sleep for 3 hours, i jump out of sleep and feel wide awake. I'm just not normal. 

 

I also noticed that if I have a better night, I never sleep again after it. It feels like when my body is not about to crash with exhaustion, it doesnt shut down.

 

I think I read hundreds of posts here and seems that people have most success when slowly tapering from the amount of the drug that allows them to sleep. But that has never been my case - even with drugs my sleep has been always incredible unstable. Besides the heavy sedation in the hospital. 

 

Do I have a chance to improve, if I'm basically totally destroyed to start with? 

 

I also wonder to which extent my insomnia is drug related and to which it is related to the disruption caused by the birth of my son. The first three months he never slept for more then 2 hours in a row - could this permanently disrupt my sleep?? Now I'm sleeping in a separate room and my partner stays with him at night. 

 

For how long I can go like this? Im noticing my short term memory is declining and I have problems concentrating and decision making. 

 

I'm practicing all non drug coping skills and my sleep hygiene is good. I read the success stories section and I'm so happy for all the people who won this fight. 

 

Thank you so much, Shep, for your support. I don't know more I can do. 

[Shep]

Things will improve, Wagen. It's slow, but it will get better. 

[Altostrata]

On 3/8/2021 at 12:20 AM, Wagen said:

As for the sleep - in the hospital, all doctors argued that without sleep my body cannot heal - > therefore I was given all these strong drugs to sleep. 

 

Withdrawal insomnia is very common and very difficult. If you look around the Introductions topic, you will see many people have gotten through this. 

 

On 3/8/2021 at 12:20 AM, Wagen said:

I also wanted to ask about the following pattern: I noticed that in the evening, from around 5pm, I usually have this wave of energy that comes out of nowhere and making it hard to calm before sleeping. I'm these moments, it feels like a glimpse of myself. Why is that? 

 

 

It sounds like your body is trying to re-adapt without the drug, but your circadian rhythm is off. You might work on strengthening your sleep. See

 

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Waking with panic or anxiety -- managing the morning cortisol spike

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

[Wagen]

@ChessieCat,

 

I just saw at another thread your post about coping with chronic pain. 

 

My whole journey started with upper back pain that I now have for 10 months. 

 

I did all possible medical checks and noone found anything abnormal. The explanation that I got from the therapists is that the pain is caused by a trauma. 

 

I've been working with therapists but don't seem to be able to resolve it. 

 

The fear from pain and living withe the pain 24/7 is one of the major stressors in my life and probably the key reason why I stopped sleeping. Now, with all the side effects and withdrawal effects of the drugs, the situation is even worse then in the beginning. 

 

I will watch the videos that you recommended - is there something else that works for you and you would advise to me to try?

 

Thank you so much! 

[Erell]

Hello wagen

 

I don't have issues with chronic pain, however I've recently read some very interesting stuff.

 

I don't know if it will be relevant in your case, and I'm not giving medical advices, but you might be interested by these ressources  : 

 

1. https://www.curablehealth.com/blog/brain-infographic?gclid=Cj0KCQjwrsGCBhD1ARIsALILBYpeqZjrWo1aOUxWXaGf5MLTuuVl0Z7ovfbKy2DMo8nDjewKBo8_eAIaAioREALw_wcB

 

2. https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/

 

Best wishes ☀️

[Wagen]

32 minutes ago, Erell said:

Hello wagen

 

I don't have issues with chronic pain, however I've recently read some very interesting stuff.

 

I don't know if it will be relevant in your case, and I'm not giving medical advices, but you might be interested by these ressources  : 

 

1. https://www.curablehealth.com/blog/brain-infographic?gclid=Cj0KCQjwrsGCBhD1ARIsALILBYpeqZjrWo1aOUxWXaGf5MLTuuVl0Z7ovfbKy2DMo8nDjewKBo8_eAIaAioREALw_wcB

 

2. https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/

 

Best wishes ☀️

Thank you so much, @Erell!

 

I'm using the application, it's been 3 months now and I haven't seen results yet, but I don't want to give up. I hope it can help. 

 

I'm so glad that you don't suffer from pain!! 

[Erell]

21 minutes ago, Wagen said:

I'm using the application, it's been 3 months now and I haven't seen results yet, but I don't want to give up. I hope it can help. 

Well, I started to use the app last week 😉

I don't suffer from pain, but I think the tools can still be very useful in WD : I just use the word "anxiety" or " symptoms" instead of pain.

I really like the "brain training" exercices ! 

 

In fact, a lot of the tips in the app are the coping skills we often talk about on SA, but I find that having the app is helping me : it's like having a coach (a coach not telling me to take psychdrugs 😉) and I discover exercices to practice.

 

I haven't done much writing exercices for now, will have to try.

 

Hope you find some relief soon ☀️

[Wagen]

Friends, 

 

I don't have any new symptoms except from the ongoing insomnia and tinnitus. 

 

I continue to struggle with the upper back pain that started the whole journey. 

 

It's been now 11 months of 24/7 pain and multiple doctors told me that my pain doesn't have a structural cause. They say it's called central sensitization and that it's the chemical imbalance in my brain that keeps sending the pain signals even though there is no damage. 

 

The only advice is drugs. They especially keep insisting on sleep - I average 3 hours or sleep now and they say thar without sleep I will never be able to manage the pain. And it cannot go away. 

 

I feel like I tried everything, including strong drugs, but its just not getting better. The days pass and the pain and sleep don't improve. 

 

What are your thoughts? Would you have any advice on the central sensitization? Can it be reversed? Doctors say drugs are the only option to lessen the pain but it cannot go away. 

 

Im trying to keep going for my small son but at the same time I don't know how long I can keep going. Especially since I just don't know what to do more to get better. 

[Erell]

Hello @Wagen,

 

I don't have specific advices and I'm sorry you're going through this. 

 

However, some folks have reported positive experiences with acupuncture and/or osteopathic treatment.

Is it something you've already tried ?

Make sure you try one thing at a time, and tell practitioners you need calming treatment, no detox or stimulating ones.

 

About the sensitivity of your nervous system  : testimonies tend to show that when a CNS is destabilised by psychdrugs, it can regain his stability but it might take time and be very gradual.

 

How are you doing with the Curable app ?

 

I do hope you'll find some relief soon ☀️

[Wagen]

On 4/9/2021 at 3:38 PM, Erell said:

Hello @Wagen,

 

I don't have specific advices and I'm sorry you're going through this. 

 

However, some folks have reported positive experiences with acupuncture and/or osteopathic treatment.

Is it something you've already tried ?

Make sure you try one thing at a time, and tell practitioners you need calming treatment, no detox or stimulating ones.

 

About the sensitivity of your nervous system  : testimonies tend to show that when a CNS is destabilised by psychdrugs, it can regain his stability but it might take time and be very gradual.

 

How are you doing with the Curable app ?

 

I do hope you'll find some relief soon ☀️

 

I feel like I tried everything Im not able to heal from the back pain as long as I'm not sleeping and the pain (together with tinnitus) keep me awake. Vicious circle that Im not able to break.

 

I tried so many things and now I'm reaching total resignation and heavy suicidal thought. 

 

The only thing that kept me from doing it so far is my son. And the fact that it is not easy to hurt myself without the risk of failing. 

 

 

[marie123]

Hi Wagen. I think I missed your post asking me about how to cope with tinnitus. I was where you were, desperate for sleep. I can tell you now that the tinnitus is lower now and what I have left just fades into the background. It does not keep me awake anymore. Your brain gets used to the sound, it fades, and it becomes meaningless. It made me very anxious and first, but now I can care less about it. It will happen to you too. When you go to bed just accept it all and tell yourself that you don't care if you will sleep tonight, I'll just sleep the next night. Guess what happens, you start to sleep again. I tried sleep sounds like water that helped. After that I tried putting my TV on the lowest volume with Blue Planet or National Geographic. It made me sleepy. Now I just sleep like a normal person who is withdrawing. I'm tapering Mirt and I find if I taper it very slowly only the first night or so sleep is a bit rough. Try some hot epsom salt baths with lavender for the back and sleep. It has helped me with both. I hope you feel better soon. Marie.

[Nomad]

23 hours ago, Wagen said:

 

I feel like I tried everything Im not able to heal from the back pain as long as I'm not sleeping and the pain (together with tinnitus) keep me awake. Vicious circle that Im not able to break.

 

I tried so many things and now I'm reaching total resignation and heavy suicidal thought. 

 

The only thing that kept me from doing it so far is my son. And the fact that it is not easy to hurt myself without the risk of failing. 

 

 

Dear @Wagen I had severe tinnitus that worsened my insomnia and even was so loud that I could not effectively do my meditation. It was literally driving me crazy. I used a white sound machine to help block out the tinnitus at night while trying to sleep. It made a difference! I also researched how to heal the tinnitus (or at least reduce it) I found this: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12544035/

My tinnitus is much better now. I wish I could help with your other problems. Please be strong and don’t give up yet. There still is a chance that more time will see your other problems improved at least enough to get some relief.

[Wagen]

@Shep @Altostrata

 

Yesterday, I almost acted on my sucidial plans. I'm so so sleep deprived. 

 

I in the end took clonazepam (for the first time since Feb 20) which calmed me down. But I cannot go on like this. 

 

It's been now more then 5 months since I stopped amitriptiline and with the exception of 3 weeks in March when I took mirtazapine I didn't take any drugs except from occasional antihistamine in moments of desperation. 

 

I don't know what more to do to sleep better. I sleep maximum 4 hours and never beyond 3am. 

 

Do you think this can still be withdrawal or I have insomnia which cannot be healed? 

 

Insomnia due to pain is how it all started and since I haven't been able to eliminate the pain, is it possible that the sleep will never improve? 

 

I can't describe how exhausted I'm and I'm not functional, I barely make it through the days. 

 

Once I wake up around 3am, I start having surges of energy flowing through my body and there is no way to go back to sleep. I'm exhausted but not sleepy. My brain sleeps only when it's about to collapse. 

 

The sleep deprivation makes the pain and tinnitus so much worse that in turn make the stress worse and sleep more difficult. I'm stuck and can't get out. 

 

Please is there something that I haven't tried? I feel I tried all recommended things but I feel my body is so so alert all the time. 

 

I really don't know what to do anymore. Please tell me if there is something more I could do. 

[Altostrata]

I don't understand what's going on here.

 

On 2/25/2021 at 9:14 PM, Wagen said:

@Altostrata,

 

Thank you very much. 

 

I stopped taking clonazepam suddenly upon doctors direction. He said I could just stop taking both clonazepam and olanzapine. 

 

The tinnitus started after that. 

 

Then, I gradually stopped amitriptyline, also on their advice, slower, but of course still very fast

 

The symptoms of electrical buzzing started in January. 

....

 

It appears your withdrawal symptoms, particularly the tinnitus, started when you went off clonazepam in December.

 

Mirtazapine helped you sleep, yet you went off it in February. Why did you do this, and why haven't you tried a little mirtazapine, maybe 5mg, for sleep, since that's causing you such distress?

[Wagen]

8 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Mirtazapine helped you sleep, yet you went off it in February. Why did you do this, and why haven't you tried a little mirtazapine, maybe 5mg, for sleep, since that's causing you such distress?

 

I took mirtazapine for two weeks only in February but decided to do a rapid taper after discussing here because it didn't make me feel well (very hyper and stimulated) during the days, the sleep was very scattered and I didn't want to get addicted to another drug. The doctor told me to take lorazepam for sleep which I rejected bc of the fear of benzo addiction. 

 

The thing is that I don't know how to distinguish between withdrawal insomnia and insomnia that I had before I was prescribed the drugs. 

 

Are my insomnia symptoms manageable by non drug techniques or there is no chance? My body feels very very alert and I don't know what to do to break the cycle.