BrokenWings: recovering

[arbor]

Hi @BrokenWings--No doubt, patience and keeping a positive attitude are extra hard when we don't know where we're at in recovery.  

It's good to hear from you--

Arbor 💗

[BrokenWings]

I just ended another wave that lasted about 8 days and came from nowhere. The fact that my mood can change suddenly without any warning is frustrating. I feel like I am losing my sanity. At this point the waves are mostly filled with deep dark depression, anxiety and physical symptoms that have yet to subside. I am officially 42 months into withdrawal hell with no clear end in sight. Is it normal to still be struggling this badly so far out?

[arbor]

Oh, my gosh I so can relate:

8 hours ago, BrokenWings said:

I feel like I am losing my sanity.

 

8 hours ago, BrokenWings said:

Is it normal to still be struggling this badly so far out?

Unfortunately for a lot of us, I think, it is normal.  Whether we tapered or CT'ed--it seems like a nearly unbearable amount of time is logged in as waves.  I'm glad you posted.  Also, it sounds as if you've come out of the wave.  How long do your windows lasting now, or is there a pattern?  Do you notice anything that sets off the waves?  How is your sleep?  I've just been watching the testimonies of the Capital Hill Police officers--wishing we could confront the medical establishment as well.  In the meantime, I send you much support, a ton of empathy, and endless wishes for this to end sooner rather than later for you, me and all of us😞

Arbor

[persistente]

Just to say I am another one in very similar if not the same boat. This is sunreal!

[persistente]

I just red your thread. Amazing! I can completly relate to your experience. I could have written most of your posts. I am few months ahead of you. Keep on! The end of this must be somwhere around the corner...

[BrokenWings]

11 hours ago, arbor said:

How long do your windows lasting now, or is there a pattern?  Do you notice anything that sets off the waves?  How is your sleep?

@arbor It's hard to say but I would estimate I can have a window last about 3 to 4 weeks. However, there are times when they are shorter. The waves usually last about 7 to 10 days but sometimes they are shorter. The windows appear to be getting ever so slightly longer but it's really hard to tell and there is no definitive pattern.

 

The only thing I can think of that sets off the waves is stress build up and overload. I have had essentially zero stress tolerance since starting the drugs and this has remained the same while off them.

 

My sleep is pretty normal when I am in a window. I can usually get a good 6 to 8 hours of sleep with few interruptions. However, when I am in a wave I am still bedridden and unable to function. I barley get any quality sleep during a wave

 

I appreciate your feedback and as always I wish you well on your way towards recovery.

[BrokenWings]

8 hours ago, persistente said:

Just to say I am another one in very similar if not the same boat. This is sunreal!

@Persistence Yes, I totally agree.

 

1 hour ago, persistente said:

I just red your thread. Amazing! I can completly relate to your experience. I could have written most of your posts. I am few months ahead of you. Keep on! The end of this must be somwhere around the corner...

 

Thank you! I wish you well on your path towards recovery.

[persistente]

20 hours ago, BrokenWings said:

@arbor It's hard to say but I would estimate I can have a window last about 3 to 4 weeks. However, there are times when they are shorter. The waves usually last about 7 to 10 days but sometimes they are shorter. The windows appear to be getting ever so slightly longer but it's really hard to tell and there is no definitive pattern.

 

The only thing I can think of that sets off the waves is stress build up and overload. I have had essentially zero stress tolerance since starting the drugs and this has remained the same while off them.

 

My sleep is pretty normal when I am in a window. I can usually get a good 6 to 8 hours of sleep with few interruptions. However, when I am in a wave I am still bedridden and unable to function...

This is exactly how do my wd looks like. From word ti word.

[BrokenWings]

I just ended another heartbreaking wave😭. I have been trying to force myself to push through and continue my day but the surge of anxiety and deep dark depression hits so hard it forces me to become bedridden. No amount of deep breathing and meditation seems to help. Apart from tinnitus and occasional muscle/nerve pain, most of my physical symptoms have faded. It is the psychological and emotional symptoms which are crippling me.

 

My windows are also not as strong as they were in the past. I am functioning on good days but just barely. I am frustrated, confused and scared. I don't know how much more of this I can endure. The process of healing from PAWS is cruel and inhumane.

 

 

[arbor]

Dear @BrokenWingsOh, this is so hard:

5 hours ago, BrokenWings said:

It is the psychological and emotional symptoms which are crippling me.

 

My windows are also not as strong as they were in the past. I am functioning on good days but just barely. I am frustrated, confused and scared. I don't know how much more of this I can endure. The process of healing from PAWS is cruel and inhumane.

 

Yes, this is what I'm going through too.  Sometimes it's very hard to keep the faith.  All I can honestly say is that I'm here with you.  I want you to make it through and to recover.  You're still in the middle range of average recovery time for CT.  Have you found anything that helps lift the darkness?  Have you noticed any triggers for waves, or patterns of thought that circle when you're in the worst parts?

Today I'm encouraged that research is finally showing at least one mechanism by which these drugs cause the excruciating symptoms during withdrawal (and sometimes while on them).  The upshot is that it can take a very long time for the cell membranes to recover.  Of course, we knew this, and know this.  But I like anything that verifies that they do recover.

My heart is with you, Brokenwings.

Arbor

[BrokenWings]

1 hour ago, arbor said:

Have you found anything that helps lift the darkness?  Have you noticed any triggers for waves, or patterns of thought that circle when you're in the worst parts?

@arbor Nothing specific lifts the darkness it fades with time. The only triggers I can thing of are stress and perhaps slipping on my diet (too much sugar). A lot of my repeating thoughts are traumatic events from the past and future worries.

 

It's encouraging to know I am not alone and sad to see so many are suffering. My heart is with your as well arbor!

[arbor]

Thank you for this @BrokenWings  For some reason I'm not getting my message notifications, so forgive me for not finding this until now.  

What you describe is similar to what I'm trying to endure.  I am beginning to wonder about the impact of the vaccine setting us back, as I'm hearing others wondering as well.  Whatever's going on, I long for us both and for everyone suffering this "cruel" situation to be free of it.

Thinking of you💜

Arbor

[BrokenWings]

I recently had another wave that was a tad longer than usual . I am in a window now, and this has been one of the better windows thus far. I am hoping it is a turning point. I am fearful that I will suddenly enter a wave out of nowhere and have my hopes crushed yet again. I am still dealing with tinnitus, although it is only bothersome during a wave. Vertigo symptoms have reappeared during waves and that is discouraging as they had previously gone away. Deep dark depression and intense anxiety during waves are still crippling me. If I am still feeling good after two to three weeks, I am going to take that as a sign of progress, as I have not gone this long before in between windows and waves.

[arbor]

Hi @BrokenWings--This is wonderful news.  Thank you for sharing.  The fact that you're going through this period at all, let alone longer than before strikes me as a truly good sign.🎈🌞💗

Arbor

[BrokenWings]

@arbor I truly hope so. How are you doing? I hope you are getting closer to recovery. 

[arbor]

Hi @BrokenWings--

Thanks for asking.  Unfortunately, my sleep is a problem so my symptoms are holding or getting worse.  I work very hard at not freaking out.

All my best,

Arbor

[BrokenWings]

@arbor I am sorry to hear you are not sleeping well. When I have sleep problems I am in the same situation. I hope things start to improve for you and you return to a window.

[arbor]

Thank you, @BrokenWingsMeans a lot❤️

[BrokenWings]

I am looking for some further reassurances as I am still struggling with the windows and waves cycle. I don't feel any improvements and the patterns are the same even this far out. My waves are still intense and leave me bedridden. The symptoms are still mostly emotional (deep dark depression, crippling anxiety, fear, and ruminating thoughts). Tinnitus is still present and very pronounced when I am in a wave. I am also still occasionally experiencing chest pains and nerve/muscle twitching during a wave.

 

I am frustrated and feel hopeless. I read success stories to keep me going and I know there are many who have struggled as long as I have or longer, but sometimes I feel as if I will be stuck in this condition. I am doing everything I can by eating healthy, exercising when I am functioning, practicing meditation, and using techniques to help cope with symptoms when they occur.

 

Do windows and waves just stop and it's over or is there a moment where symptoms rapidly improve and there is a clear indication one is near the end of this nightmare?

[arbor]

@BrokenWings I've been thinking of you.  We have been on a similar trajectory, and so of course, now I am experiencing similar issues.  I've reported your post so that the moderators who are doing better can respond.  You're doing everything-- I did recently hear Robert Whittaker say on a video, that in his experience, it usually can take 5 years before the symptoms begin to fade.

I am sending you co-healing in my meditation breathing.  Stay safe,

Arbor🕊️

[getofflex]

2 hours ago, BrokenWings said:

I am looking for some further reassurances as I am still struggling with the windows and waves cycle. I don't feel any improvements and the patterns are the same even this far out. My waves are still intense and leave me bedridden.

I'm very sorry that you are dealing with this pain and suffering.  My heart goes out to you.  I have a possible idea for you.  We have another member, who does a daily journal of her symptoms, and she rates each one from 1-10, with 10 being the worst.  It has given her a clearer picture of the progress she has made.  Sometimes, our progress is so slow, that we cannot see it unless we do something like this.  

 

2 hours ago, BrokenWings said:

I am frustrated and feel hopeless

I can understand why you feel this way.  The situation we find ourselves in is unfair, and is very challenging, and takes a long time to resolve.  

 

2 hours ago, BrokenWings said:

sometimes I feel as if I will be stuck in this condition

It certainly seems that way, when we are like this for so long, and progress seems so minimal.  

 

2 hours ago, BrokenWings said:

I am doing everything I can by eating healthy, exercising when I am functioning, practicing meditation, and using techniques to help cope with symptoms when they occur.

It's great that you are doing all these things.  What type of exercise are you doing?  I ask this, because intense exercise can aggravate symptoms of WD.  That's because it increases adrenaline, which can increase our WD symptoms.  I would suggest doing no more than a gentle walk.  Are you completely avoiding all alcohol, weed, CBD, and any other mind altering substances?  

 

2 hours ago, BrokenWings said:

Do windows and waves just stop and it's over or is there a moment where symptoms rapidly improve and there is a clear indication one is near the end of this nightmare?

I don't believe so, although maybe it does for some people.  I believe that in most cases, the symptoms recede very gradually, and can reappear in waves even long after we are off the drugs.  However, eventually all this does go away.  The problem is, it can take years, especially in the case of a C/T. 

 

Have you ever tried Baylissa's website:  She is very gentle, and very encouraging.  I think she may help you: 

 

https://baylissa.com

 

 

 

 

[BrokenWings]

@arbor I appreciate you forwarding my question . I also have been thinking of you. I am sorry you are also still struggling. I have seen videos from Robert Whittaker but not that particular one where he mentions it usually takes 5 years before symptoms begin to fade. I guess we both may need more time than we desire for a full recovery. 

 

Wishing you the best during the holiday period.

[BrokenWings]

@getofflex I appreciate the tips and words of encouragement.

 

5 minutes ago, getofflex said:

It's great that you are doing all these things.  What type of exercise are you doing?  I ask this, because intense exercise can aggravate symptoms of WD.  That's because it increases adrenaline, which can increase our WD symptoms.  I would suggest doing no more than a gentle walk.  Are you completely avoiding all alcohol, weed, CBD, and any other mind altering substances?  

I am staying away from strenuous activity as I know it can and has in the past aggravated symptoms of withdrawal. For the most part I have been taking walks and hikes for exercise. I am completely free from all mind altering substances. I have even cut out any caffeine intake as I know this can elevate cortisol and increase anxiety.

 

I will definitely check out Baylissa's site. Thanks for the link.

[BrokenWings]

@arborDo you happen to have a link to the Robert Whitaker video where he mentions it usually takes 5 years for symptoms to start fading?

[getofflex]

20 hours ago, BrokenWings said:

For the most part I have been taking walks and hikes for exercise.

Walking is great, but for me, some hikes can be troublesome, if they have a lot of hills, or are too long.  I can do short easy hikes of about 2 to 2.5 miles, without many hills, with no problem.   

[BrokenWings]

@getofflex I agree hikes can be troublesome so I generally don't do them unless I know the trails are mostly flat. I did a 5 mile hike a few weeks ago and a few days later a wave hit. Most of the time I try to keep my walks at around 2 to 2.5 miles.

[Altostrata]

@BrokenWings, are you able to get some walking in when you're in a wave?

 

Many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see

 

https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you. Please let us know how you’re doing.

 

Our paper shows average recovery from protracted withdrawal is 2-3 years: 

 

Hengartner, M. P., Schulthess, L., Sorensen, A., & Framer, A. (2020). Protracted withdrawal syndrome after stopping antidepressants: A descriptive quantitative analysis of consumer narratives from a large internet forum. Therapeutic Advances in Psychopharmacology. https://doi.org/10.1177/2045125320980573

[arbor]

Dear @BrokenWings

I'm sorry I mentioned a reference without a citing.  I'm not well enough to research which video at this time.  He has so many.  The trail I was following was from one of these 2 links, the first most likely:  
https://www.antidepressantrisks.org 

https://www.madinamerica.com › 2018/11 › drug-indu...

 

I hastily wanted you to know that it may take some of us longer.  And that there is hope for you (and for me) as ours is going on longer than the average that Alto reports above.  We, as Getofflex points out, did not taper (alas) with the guidance and wisdom of this site.  I imagine your situation was like mine: I simply didn't know about it.

 

I am not well today.  I thank you for your words of encouragement.  They mean more than I can say.  I am grateful everyday to Alto for establishing our mutual support.

Knowing you're there gives me courage,

Arbor

[BrokenWings]

@Altostrata When I am in a wave I have not been able to go for a walk so far. The symptoms are so intense I am usually confined to bed. I will definitely try and push for a walk even if it is just around the block.

 

I have been taking fish oil and magnesium supplements since I stopped Zoloft and have had no issues with them and I believe they are helping support my recovery process.

 

Thank you for your guidance.

[BrokenWings]

@arbor No worries. I hope you start feeling better soon.

[arbor]

Dear @BrokenWings  You are in my thoughts everyday as we struggle to survive.🕊️🙏 To know that you know what this entails means a great deal to me.  Your well being and future health matter to me.💜

[BrokenWings]

@arbor You are in my thoughts as well. I appreciate all your help and support. 💙

[BrokenWings]

It has been awhile since I posted so here is an update:

 

By far this is the longest period of time I have gone in between a wave and window. It has been a little over 1 month since my last wave. I am in a kind of neutral state at the moment. I have dips every now and then but it has not sent me into a horrible wave where I would be confined to bed.

 

I may be turning the corner but I don't want to jinx myself. Anhedonia is still a persistent symptom... I have read that this is usually the last symptom to resolve so I know I still have a lot of healing left.

[arbor]

Hi @BrokenWingsThanks for your update.  This sounds very positive.  I don't want to jinx it either, so I will restrain my delight to hear that you are climbing out of the pit.  Please keep us all posted--

Arbor💗🌈🌞

[BrokenWings]

@arborThank you I will.

 

How are you doing in your recovery?

[arbor]

Dear @BrokenWings--I trust and hope that more healing is continuing for you.  I'm roughly 10 months behind you in being at 0 for AD's, so I feel a connection to your course, and can also (as with so many of us) relate to the tribulations.  Thank you for your question above.  Sometimes I can hardly articulate the muddled mixture of mental disarray--a high volume akathisia with incessant perseverating.  Recently, a lot of this has to do with a noise problem with an insensitive neighbor.  However, what I want to say, is that I am beginning to subtly sense that my condition will possibly someday improve.  That glimmer is brand new.

I think of you often,

Arbor