liverstone1951: trouble with withdrawal from antidepressants

[Altostrata]

How do you feel before and after taking citalopram every day?

 

You missed a dose on Monday, and Thursday you posted this:

On 9/1/2022 at 2:35 AM, liverstone1951 said:

I’ve held on Citalopram 5mg and have recovered from my “hypomania-like” episode in June when I stopped it too quickly. 

 

Problem is, it’s giving me SI and kindling. However, when I reduce it, the hypomania-like symptoms come back (extreme anxiety, agitated, trouble sleeping) 

 

So on the one hand, if I take it, I don’t have extreme anxiety and I can sleep somewhat. However it gives me SI and head pressure, presumably from kindling. 

 

It appears you had recovered from your "“hypomania-like” episode in June" but "SI and kindling" emerged when?

 

Your symptoms sound like withdrawal symptoms and adverse drug reactions, like hundreds of members here.

[liverstone1951]

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It appears you had recovered from your "“hypomania-like” episode in June" but "SI and kindling" emerged when?

@Altostrata yeah so when I came off citalopram too quickly in June, I got those hypomania symptoms. After re-instating at 5mg citalopram, pretty much immediately the "kindling" began - head pressure, headaches, memory loss, brain fog, blurry vision etc. In August, the SI began. Specifically I felt like I wanted a way out of my situation.

 

 

Quote

 

How do you feel before and after taking citalopram every day?

 

 

Before, all my usual symptoms are there - headache, head pressure, brain fog, etc. Normally, after taking it, the headache, head pressure and neck pains get worse. To be honest though, I don't feel much of a difference.

 

Quote

Your symptoms sound like withdrawal symptoms and adverse drug reactions, like hundreds of members here.

 

The trouble for me is determining what's withdrawal and what's the adverse reaction. I think all the "kindling" stuff is an adverse reaction/ "sensitivity"

 

However, when I so much as drop my citalopram dose slightly, or even change brand/ type of tablet, I get these weird hypomania-like symptoms. First time happened in June when I dropped it to 0. One may logically think this is citalopram withdrawal

 

What's interesting though, is that I've had withdrawal from citalopram before, 1 year ago, and it was nothing like that. It was just increased anxiety and insomnia.

 

The hypomania-like symptoms only started after May, which is when I stopped Mirtazapine.

 

 

 

 

The whole situation is a mess to be honest. I chopped and changed my drugs too much. The truth is, I was in a rush to get back to Uni so was under pressure to stop my drugs. Now that I've dropped out, there's no time pressure anymore. I'm ready to listen to you and follow your advice to the T.

 

I doubt you've ever seen as chaotic a taper as my Mirtazapine one. When I withdrew and re-instated 3 times in 3 months, using skipping doses, before finally just cold turkeying it off 3.75mg. I've also messed w/ my citalopram dose too.

 

I know it's v complicated, so I'm willing to do whatever necessary to rectify it.

 

 

Let me know your thoughts. If my messages are too long I will cut them down. I have autism so I tend to put too much detail.

[Altostrata]

2 hours ago, liverstone1951 said:

First time happened in June when I dropped it to 0.

 

We would not call this a small change.

 

2 hours ago, liverstone1951 said:

Normally, after taking it, the headache, head pressure and neck pains get worse.

 

How long after taking citalopram do these symptoms get worse? How long does this worsening period last? Are there any times of day you feel better? What is your sleep pattern?

 

2 hours ago, liverstone1951 said:

The hypomania-like symptoms only started after May, which is when I stopped Mirtazapine.

 

You stopped mirtazapine in May? You were taking 10mg citalopram with it since February, correct?

 

These symptoms of activation are more likely from mirtazapine withdrawal if that's when they started. This was piled onto the prior bruising from all your drug changes. Going on and off drugs tends to cause your nervous system to become sensitive to all drugs, even supplements and sometimes foods.

 

Please get on a consistent daily drug schedule, then keep daily notes of times o’clock you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time o’clock on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This will help us understand your symptoms.

[liverstone1951]

@Altostrata 

On 9/5/2022 at 12:29 AM, Altostrata said:

How long after taking citalopram do these symptoms get worse? How long does this worsening period last? Are there any times of day you feel better? What is your sleep pattern?

 

About 1hr later, my headache gets worse.  

 

Headache resolves the next morning. 

 

Only time of day that’s relatively better is before the dose, so waking up (11am) until dose (4:30pm). Headache is still there but less intense

 

Right now, ever since pharmacy changed the Citalopram tablet, I don’t have full house of “sensitivity” symptoms, only headache. However, my sleep is very bad, only 1 or 2 hours. Brain zaps keep me from falling asleep. Once I’m asleep I can’t stay awake.

 

Before the pharmacy changed the tablets, I had all of the symptoms (headache, head pressure, neck pain) but I also slept 8 hours. 

 

On 9/5/2022 at 12:29 AM, Altostrata said:

You stopped mirtazapine in May? You were taking 10mg citalopram with it since February, correct?

 

These symptoms of activation are more likely from mirtazapine withdrawal if that's when they started. This was piled onto the prior bruising from all your drug changes. Going on and off drugs tends to cause your nervous system to become sensitive to all drugs, even supplements and sometimes foods.

 

Yes and yes. Both from Feb. My Mirtazapine dose was v chaotic, I was skipping doses & tried coming off 3 separate times. However Citalopram stable on 10mg

 

In May I finally went off 3.75mg Mirtazapine. Shortly after, in June, rapidly went off Citalopram, leading to activation symptoms. 

 

Yes it felt like since coming off Mirt in May I was hypersensitive to everything. 

 

On 9/5/2022 at 12:29 AM, Altostrata said:

Please get on a consistent daily drug schedule, then keep daily notes of times o’clock you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time o’clock on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This will help us understand your symptoms

 

Will do. Already written yesterday’s one: 

 

4:30pm: took 5mg Citalopram 

 

12am: went to bed, Benadryl and diazepam

 

3am: woke with anxiety, DPDR, brain zaps. Could not fall back asleep

 

6:30: anxiety lessened, started feeling very energetic

 

 

Note: 

 

This week has been an exception to the norm because was taking new tablets.

 

Before this week, when taking half a 10mg tablet, I had the full house of sensitivity symptoms, but I also slept 8 hours very easily. I was also quite depressed and anergic. Been this way for a long while. 

 

However past week, pharmacy ran out, so been taking quarter of 20mg tablet, I have felt much more activated and unusually high mood. As well, been literally unable to sleep, but sensitivity symptoms much less (only headache). Similar symptoms as in June. 

[liverstone1951]

5th September symptoms:

 

 

8:00am: woke up

 

9:30: ate breakfast

 

12pm: omega-3 2000iU

 

4:30pm: took 5mg citalopram

 

5:30pm: headache

 

12:00am: insomnia, brain zaps

 

3:00-4:00: slept, woke up

 

6:30am-8:00am: slept

 

 

[Altostrata]

Are you able to move your citalopram dose earlier by an hour each day, to noon? It may be interfering with your sleep.

[liverstone1951]

 

@Altostrata I can certainly try. Will keep you updated. 

 

One thing I wanted to ask. Should I take the new brand the pharmacist gave me, or should I slice up 20mg tablets of my old brand (leftover).

 

I dunno what caused my recent “activating” symptoms that started a few days ago. But it coincides with the pharmacist giving me a new brand of citalopram. My “sensitivity” symptoms to Citalopram have also gone away. It feels like I’m not taking Citalopram at all

 

My old brand 10mg, which I was taking before, is impossible to get hold of, I’ve tried every avenue. 

 

If I am tagging you too much please let me know, I have autism so I don’t realise if I’m doing something 

 

[Altostrata]

If your symptoms were less with the old prescription, you might use that.

[liverstone1951]

6th September symptoms: 

 

8:00am: woke up with headache

 

12:00: ate breakfast, omega 3 

 

4:30pm: 5mg Citalopram 

 

6:30pm: visual disturbances, flashing lights, headache, anxiety, dissociation

 

7:30pm: dinner

 

9:30: magnesium glycerinate

 

11:00pm: eye pain

 

12:00am: sleep (waking up every hour)  (brain zaps) 

[Altostrata]

How did you feel before and after taking citalopram?

[liverstone1951]

@Altostrata Before, I have elevated mood (feeling high), hung over feeling, tinnitus. After taking it, same symptoms, but tinnitus got worse, got a headache and bad anxiety

 

I want to be honest, something's felt off since I changed tablets last week. Before this, I had the same, unchanging symptoms for ages - headache, SI, memory loss, confusion, head pressure, but I slept. Ever since changing tablets, I feel hyperactive, feeling high, anxiety and also feeling DP/DR and 1hr sleep. I still haven't gone back to my normal symptoms.

 

Do you think this is the tablets or something else? I know changing tablets can have an effect, but it shouldn't be this big right? It's the same brand and the same dose, I'm just cutting it up into 4. Admittedly, I don't get a clean cut, it's really hard as they're small. But I'm worried it's something else.

[Altostrata]

It's possible the new formulation is a little stronger than the old one. How many days have you been taking it? Do you have any of the old tablets?

[liverstone1951]

7th September symptoms:

 

8:00am: woke up with headache

 

12:00pm: breakfast, omega 3 2000iU

 

3:30pm: took Citalopram 

 

5:00pm: worsened headache, hyper-elevated mood

 

8:00pm: anxiety worsened

 

12:00 slept

[liverstone1951]

@Altostrata been taking since Friday last week, so 6 days. I don’t have any of the old tablets, every single pharmacy doesn’t stock that brand anymore, I even called an online one. 

 

Took citalopram 1hr earlier as instructed, will continue to bring it back 1hr each day. 

[Altostrata]

It appears 5mg in this formulation is too strong for you. Suggest you reduce to 4.5mg using the liquid, as described in Tips for tapering off citalopram (Celexa)

[liverstone1951]

8th september symptoms:

 

7:00 woke with hyperactivity and anxiety, DPDR

 

12:00pm breakfast

 

2:30pm citalopram 5mg

 

4:30pm headache

 

5:30pm ate dinner, paracetamol 2 x 500mg

 

8:00pm worse headache, worse anxiety, worse DPDR, worse hyperactivity, visual disturbances, blurred vision? Tinnitus?

 

9:30pm magnesium glycerinate

 

12:00 went to sleep, no brain zaps?

 

slept 6 hours, 3h-wake up-3h. sleep improving?

[liverstone1951]

@Altostrata I can either get the prescribed liquid or make my own, which do you recommend?

The prescribed liquid is a different strength and brand. Making my own would use the same brand.

I have little experience using a syringe so not sure I'd be able to do things accurately. Don't trust myself to do it accurately tbh, I would probably go slightly over or under each time.

 

My citalopram "sensitivity" symptoms (kindling and SI) have completely gone away since I changed formulation last week. Now, I mostly have the activation symptoms (like in June). I thought the activation symptoms were from Mirtazapine withdrawal? Given they only appeared after I stopped Mirtazapine.

 

If this formulation was too strong, wouldn't it make my citalopram sensitivity symptoms worse? If they've gone away, surely it suggests the opposite, that the new tablets are doing nothing, i.e. they're a placebo?

 

However, I recognise that I'm in no position to make judgement calls, because it's my poor decisions recently that got me into this mess. Of course your years of experience means you are in a better place to judge. 

 

This is a very confusing situation, with a whole mess of symptoms, I'm just putting my ideas and feelings out there.

 

My activation symptoms have toned down in the past 2 days. I am now sleeping better, I had no brain zaps yesterday, my appetite is back. However, in the evenings everything gets worse (anxiety, feeling high, DPDR, visual disturbances, tinnitus). 

 

Please let me know your thoughts.

[Altostrata]

11 hours ago, liverstone1951 said:

I can either get the prescribed liquid or make my own, which do you recommend?

 

Whichever you prefer.

 

11 hours ago, liverstone1951 said:

My activation symptoms have toned down in the past 2 days. I am now sleeping better, I had no brain zaps yesterday, my appetite is back. However, in the evenings everything gets worse (anxiety, feeling high, DPDR, visual disturbances, tinnitus). 

 

 

You may be getting used to the new tablets.

[ChessieCat]

15 hours ago, liverstone1951 said:

I can either get the prescribed liquid or make my own, which do you recommend?

The prescribed liquid is a different strength and brand. Making my own would use the same brand.

 

I think one benefit of making your own liquid is that it is easy to make a weaker solution (ie use more water) which means that you need to take more of the liquid so it is easier to measure and you can be more accurate.

[liverstone1951]

9th September symptoms: 

 

7:00 woke up, headache, visual disturbance, muscle twitch

 

11:00 breakfast

 

2:00pm lunch

 

5:30 citalopram

 

6:30 headache

 

10:00-12:00 Restless/hyperactive, voices

 

12:00 sleep

[liverstone1951]

Symptoms 9th september:

 

7:00 woke with hyperactivity and anxiety, DPDR

 

12:00pm breakfast

 

2:30pm citalopram 5mg

 

4:30pm headache

 

5:30pm ate dinner, paracetamol 2 x 500mg

 

8:00pm worse headache, worse anxiety, worse DPDR, worse hyperactivity, visual disturbances, blurred vision? Tinnitus?

 

9:30pm magnesium glycerinate

 

12:30am slept (6 hours), no brain zaps

[Altostrata]

You're consistently getting a headache after taking 5mg citalopram? Why not reduce it to 4.5mg?

[liverstone1951]

@Altostrata sorry for late reply. I will continue to update you after starting the liquid and going down to 4.5mg.

[liverstone1951]

Symptoms 10th september:

 

6am woke up, new OCD

 

12:00pm breakfast

 

1:30pm Citalopram 5mg

 

7:00pm visual disturbance? Headache?

 

8:00pm feeling irritated

 

12:00am slept, 6 hours