Mohannad: advice regarding coming off antidepressants

[Mohannad]

Hey Everyone,

I'd like to start off by thanking the people who made this forum for the support they give people who are having a hard time coming off of anti-depressants. Your time and empathy is highly appreciated. I genuinely thank you. 

Okay so let me start off with how I got on anti-depressants. I'll try to be as detailed as possible but I might spare you the reasons why I was initially prescribed anti-depressant medication since I don't really think my back story is that important or relevant to how or why I'd like to stop taking these poisonous drugs.

 

Was diagnosed with OCD in early 2014 and was prescribed anti-anxiety medication. I can't recall what its name is, but it doesn't matter because it didn't even work. Was prescribed a new anti-anxiety medication later on and stopped taking that since that didn't work. I can't remember what the name of that medicine is either. I was then told to go on Seroxat CR. I was perscribed a dosage of 50 mg/day. 2014

 

Took Seroxat for 2-3 years after that, although I took it very inconsistently. I wouldn't stick to the recommended dosage the doctor prescribed and only took them when I felt the withdrawal symptoms creeping in, basically I only took them every 3-4 days and I only took them because I didn't want to experience withdrawl. 2014-2017

I stopped cold turkey in 2017 as I didn't know I was supposed to taper off it. Experienced withdrawal symptoms for 3 weeks including, nightmares, insomnia, brain zaps, and a strong urge to urinate along with feeling tremendous pain in the tip of my penis. These withdrawal symptoms went away after a month or so and was drug-free with no signs of any withdrawal symptoms for about 4-5 months after stopping cold turkey, until I experienced an anxiety attack in early 2018, something which I don't believe was withdrawal symptoms related since I know the cause of what gave me anxiety.

Decided to go back on them to relieve the anxiety I was having since it was my last semester in college and didn't want to take any chances with impeding my graduation due to anxiety/depression. 2018

Tried stopping these drugs (Seroxat) later next year (2019) and started experiencing severe pain in the tip of my penis and got this frequent urge to urinate, I would spend most of my day going to the bathroom, was urinating roughly 10-15 times a day, my sleep was disrupted due to this strong urge to urinate. Went to a urologist and was prescribed medication that would supposedly help relieve this strong urinary urge. Medicine didn’t work and didn’t have any effect at all. Went to a different doctor who reinstated me on Seroxat and prescribed me some other medication to help alleviate this strong urgency to urinate, this secondary medicine was not an anti-depressant. Saw immediate improvements with my bladder pain and stopped going to the bathroom as much after being reinstated on Seroxat. I’d still need to go and urinate slightly more often than usual but I didn’t think too much of it.

Went back into old habits of taking this drug 2-3 times a week, and only taking them when these withdrawal symptoms started kicking in. Stayed like this for about 3 years (2019-2021 or early 2022)

Went to see a psychiatrist as I was having a lot of trouble with my experiences at work, was let go from 3 different jobs in these last 3 years alone. I told him that I'd wanted off Seroxat because the side effects the medicine was causing (constipation, difficult time achieving orgasm, and weak libido). He told me to taper off the Seroxat until I was no longer taking it and to then start taking a new medicine, Faverin. This was in late 2021.

After I stopped taking Seroxat, although the bladder problem came back again I just chalked it off as a minor withdrawl symptom that will go away with time, I decided that I wanted to stop taking Faverin, the newly perscribed anti-depressant medication I was taking recommended by the last doctor I went to. Early 2022

I was told by my psychiatrist not to stop taking it (Faverin) as he felt that I needed to take them for a longer period. I explained that I felt I didn’t need it and I could live just fine without any antidepressants. He finally agreed (reluctantly) and gave me a taper off plan off the drug (Faverin). 2022

After tapering off the drug in a period of roughly 1 month, I started getting withdrawal symptoms immediately after quitting. Early 2022

The regular withdrawal symptoms came back and were pretty harsh but nothing I hadn’t experienced before. Brain zaps were something I got very used too and didn’t get too affected by them. It was the insomnia and the nightmares that I found really upsetting. Those eventually subsided, though. I would still get nightmares/anxiety after waking up, but I tolerated them and hoped/prayed that they’d go away in time. They weren’t as severe as they initially were when I completely went off the medicine (Faverin) so I was patient and believed that they’d go away in a period of 2-3 weeks. February/March 2022

Shortly after that I started getting severe painful feeling in my bladder and in the tip of my penis. It was so bad that I couldn’t get any sleep. I even slightly involuntarily urinated myself whilst I was laying in bed trying to go to sleep with no success due to the insomnia withdrawal symptom the drug was causing. March 2022

I started getting these really dark thoughts and started worrying excessively about everything in life. I started viewing my self as a failure and a burden on my family. I began to panic and have this really bleak outlook on everything in life, and all this happened abruptly in a period of 2-3 days. I couldn’t enjoy anything, watching movies, playing video games, everything was useless and led nowhere. Mid/late march 2022

My mom told me to go back and see the psychiatrist who prescribed me the Faverin medication. Late march 2022

After going to him he told me that I suffer from a anxiety disorder and that it wouldn’t get any better without taking any medication, so he wrote me a prescription for Pristiq, with a dosage of 50/mg per day and told me to go up to 100 a month later. Late march 2022

I’ve been on Pristiq for about 13 days now, I started on April 1^st, and my bladder problem hasn’t gotten any better. The main reason I stayed on Seroxat for so long was because it was the only anti-depressant that helped assuage my frequent urge to urinate.

I hope you guys can give me some advice on what to do, you guys seem to be pretty well informed on how to help people get off these drugs. I'm completely aware that you guys aren't practicing doctors, but after what I've been through, I'm sure that these aren't just symptoms of depression/anxiety. They're withdrawal symptoms and they're really taking a toll on my life. I'm thinking of going back on seroxat, although I haven't taken it in roughly 4-5 months, mainly because I want these bladder problems and my urinary urgency to go away. I'm positive that if I go back on Seroxat, my bladder problems will go away and that way, I'll be able to get some sleep and not have to wake up every 2-3 hours just to go to the bathroom.



 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @Mohannad

 

On 4/13/2022 at 9:38 PM, Mohannad said:

I stopped cold turkey in 2017 as I didn't know I was supposed to taper off it. Experienced withdrawal symptoms for 3 weeks including, nightmares, insomnia, brain zaps, and a strong urge to urinate along with feeling tremendous pain in the tip of my penis.

 

As I understand it, you developed this urinary problem when you cold-turkeyed paroxetine. This suggests it is a withdrawal effect. When you took paroxetine again, this symptom went away, as withdrawal symptoms tend to do. When you stopped paroxetine again, your withdrawal symptom pattern resumed.

 

Faverin (fluvoxamine) is an SSRI similar to paroxetine. When you went off fluvoxamine, you again experienced your withdrawal symptom pattern, which includes these urinary symptoms.

 

When people go on and off psychiatric drugs repeatedly, this often makes their body systems hyper-reactive to many things, or can cause odd symptoms such as frequent urination. Their nervous systems are upset.

 

On 4/13/2022 at 9:38 PM, Mohannad said:

After going to him he told me that I suffer from a anxiety disorder and that it wouldn’t get any better without taking any medication, so he wrote me a prescription for Pristiq, with a dosage of 50/mg per day and told me to go up to 100 a month later. Late march 2022

 

Very few doctors are capable of recognizing adverse effects of antidepressants, usually claiming they are more psychiatric disorder, and your doctor is not exceptional. 

 

If I were you, I'd go off Pristiq -- an SNRI unrelated to paroxetine or fluxovamine that is very difficult to taper -- and consider taking a very low dose of citalopram, another SSRI, or fluvoxamine again. We have seen even 1mg might stop withdrawal effects. You'd let your nervous system stabilize on this and taper off by very small amounts later.

 

FYI Tips for tapering off citalopram (Celexa)

 

Citalopram comes in a liquid form that makes it easy to take a very small dose. You'd stabilize on this for a while, then taper off by tiny amounts later. Please let us know how you're doing.

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please summarize your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

[Mohannad]

@Altostrata
Thanks for replying.

I'll be going to my doctor tomorrow to hopefully try and convince him to put me on Citalopram. I'm not sure if the drug is available in my country, but I'll ask. I'm already stressing over trying to talk a doctor into prescribing me a medicine he hasn't thought of putting me on himself.

He gave me a pretty rough time when I told him that I wanted to come off AD's and he reinstated me back on them when I was clearly going through withdrawal, as I mentioned above he blamed my symptoms on an anxiety disorder and not on the withdrawal effects the drug causes.

I was thinking asking him if he could put me back on Seroxat. That way, I'll start tapering off monthly by 10%. Does that sound okay? I've read about Seroxat on the forums and you guys mention that it's one of the most difficult AD to taper off of.

Thanks for the advice.
 

[ChessieCat]

Yes, many members have difficulty getting off paroxetine; brand names Paxil and Seroxat.

 

Altostrata is the owner of SA and the site was started back in 2011.  Altostrata has gained a lot of knowledge about drugs and how to get off them.

 

She has written and contributed to research papers including this one:

 

Framer, A. (2021). What I have learnt from helping thousands of people to taper off antidepressants and other psychotropic medications. Therapeutic Advances in Psychopharmacology. https://doi.org/10.1177/2045125321991274 (open access)

 

I strongly encourage you to listen to this interview that she did recently:

 

mad-in-america-surviving-antidepressants-an-interview-with-alto - audio and transcript

This podcast is an interview with Altostrata (SA's founder) and she talks about her own research and withdrawal experience and why she started this website after she was unable to get help from the medical professionals for her Paxil withdrawal symptoms.

 

how-to-talk-to-a-doctor-about-tapering-and-withdrawal-what-to-expect

 

[Altostrata]

Why would you want to go back on the SSRI that's most difficult to go off, paroxetine? You've already found a different SSRI, fluvoxamine, seems to stop the withdrawal symptoms and urinary symptoms.

 

If I were you, I would NOT go back on paroxetine.

[Mohannad]

@ChessieCat Thanks for the helpful material. I've been scouring through this site the past two days reading up as much as I can about how to get off these drugs. I'll go through what you sent me soon.

 

[Mohannad]

@AltostrataHonestly, I only want to get back on Seroxat because I know it'll be the most effective drug in making my withdrawal and the side effects I've experienced from taking these drugs less severe, but I won't. I trust the advice given here so I'm going to completely steer away from taking Seroxat ever again. 

If I do get back on Faverin, what dosage do you guys recommend I take? Using a syringe or liquating the drug is pretty difficult for me since I don't know how to transmute these drugs from pills to a liquid.

I was initially told to go on Faverin just to help taper off of Seroxat. My starting Faverin dose was a 100mg/day, and it gradually went down to 25 until I tapered off it completely. 

I've been meaning to ask; I've been experiencing muscle stiffness/spasm in my back for quite some time now, it's lasted more than just a few days, which from what I've read is the regular time muscle stiffness/spasms lasts. I've had it for about 2 months now, and I've been going to physical therapy for it to help myself heal. I've even stopped going to the gym, the only solace I had in my day. Although my back has improved with these changes, I still feel pain if I move a lot or even walk a lot. Could this be a withdrawal symptom too? I'm not sure if this is a gym related incident or withdrawal related, because I used to regularly lift heavy at the gym, something I now know NOT to do, especially considering how new I am to lifting weights, but I've also read from the SA forums that tons of people have had trouble with muscle pain, stiffness and spasms. You guys think this is withdrawal related?

A little clarity on this would help me alot.

Thanks for all the help and support!

❤️

 

[Altostrata]

The reason I suggested citalopram is that it has a longer half-life than fluvoxamine, which also has a high risk of withdrawal difficulty because of its very short half-life of less than 24 hours.

 

Muscle stiffness is a common withdrawal symptom, or it could be an adverse effect of Pristiq. 

 

Did you check with your pharmacist about which drugs are available in liquid form? Citalopram is much more common than fluvoxamine. I am sorry for the inconvenience, everyone here has to cope with it.

[DinaDina]

Hi Mohannad! I also have bladder issues after stopping AD. It is becoming better but it is very slowly

[Mohannad]

@DinaDinaHey,

I'm sorry to hear that you're having bladder problems. I know what it's like to constantly have to go to the bathroom every 20-30 minutes only to go back in 10 minutes later. It's agonizing. The worst part about this is waking up 3-4 times a night just to go to the bathroom, I wake up with an intense urge to pee and severe pain around the tip of my penis. I keep thinking back to the day I started taking these drugs and how it wasn't voluntarily at all, they were prescribed on to me by a doctor who literally gave me an immediate diagnoses after I started talking and explaining my symptoms for 10 seconds. That's how long it took him to decide that I was suffering from a mental disorder, 10 seconds.

I'm happy that you're bladder condition is getting better. It gives me hope that one day my problem will completely go away. 

How do you cope with it? Do you have any strategies or tips that might help relieve the pain? 

 

[MollyMac]

On 4/14/2022 at 5:38 AM, Mohannad said:

I hope you guys can give me some advice on what to do, you guys seem to be pretty well informed on how to help people get off these drugs. I'm completely aware that you guys aren't practicing doctors, but after what I've been through, I'm sure that these aren't just symptoms of depression/anxiety. They're withdrawal symptoms and they're really taking a toll on my life. I'm thinking of going back on seroxat, although I haven't taken it in roughly 4-5 months, mainly because I want these bladder problems and my urinary urgency to go away. I'm positive that if I go back on Seroxat, my bladder problems will go away and that way, I'll be able to get some sleep and not have to wake up every 2-3 hours just to go to the bathroom.



 

Hi there, I had these issues. it was due to perimenopause, which I started in my 30s. Am now on transdermal HRT and the urgency, twinges and anxiety are all gone. Google menopause symptoms, in particular a woman called Dr Louise Newson. She's excellent. I also use a local oestrogen cream externally and as a pessary. It has been life changing. The bladder issues are very common, as is the anxiety that I was waking with. 

[Mohannad]

@MollyMac Hey,

Thanks for your concern. I'm not sure if perimenopause applies to my case since I'm a guy

I appreciate you trying to help though.

 

[MollyMac]

21 hours ago, Mohannad said:

@MollyMac Hey,

Thanks for your concern. I'm not sure if perimenopause applies to my case since I'm a guy

I appreciate you trying to help though.

 

Oh that's hilarious!!! I'm so sorry - sheesh, I hope it gets easier. Still giggling here.

[DinaDina]

On 4/19/2022 at 11:33 AM, Mohannad said:

How do you cope with it? Do you have any strategies or tips that might help relieve the pain? 

Honestly, I don't do anything special. I just wait. My main symptoms are constant urge, bladder pain and genital sensations. I also have periodical abdomen spasms. These symptoms are really better now than they were. I have been without any meds for 15 months.

[Mohannad]

@MollyMacGlad I could give you a laugh, haha. 😅

[Mohannad]

@DinaDinaThat's awesome! I'm glad you've come so far in your recovery. Hopefully I'll be off these drugs soon and have these symptoms fade away.

[morgana]

Hello @Mohhaned i am a woman but i also experience a frequent desire to urinate all the time upto every 15 mins with burning hot sweats that go with it...i have found every time i make an adjustment to my medication it happens as soon as i stabilize it disappears, and comes back again as soon as i make changes again...i have had all tests done which have come back fine, and i do find not drinking coffee, dont drink lots of water after 6pm, stay away from too much herbal teas and meditation helps, but i find if i do not make any changes to my medication it disappears...i think it has to do with your body dealing with the anxiety...extremely uncomfortable and difficult to sleep with...but i have found it does go away with time.... 

[morgana]

oh @Mohannad  also i know this sounds silly but the doctor told me whenever i had a desire to do a pee scrunch my toes up really hard and hold them scrunched up for along as you can and then let your toes go again.....that is meant to help takes away your need to pee.....let me know if it works....cheers morgana

[peaceandlove]

On 4/20/2022 at 9:55 AM, DinaDina said:

Honestly, I don't do anything special. I just wait. My main symptoms are constant urge, bladder pain and genital sensations. I also have periodical abdomen spasms. These symptoms are really better now than they were. I have been without any meds for 15 months.

hey how are you feeling now has this resolved yet? I also have frequent urinating & pelvic pain… overall just feeling weird down there lol. Im a female 

[DinaDina]

On 9/3/2022 at 7:53 AM, peaceandlove said:

hey how are you feeling now has this resolved yet? I also have frequent urinating & pelvic pain…

I'm better but it hasn't resolved yet. I'm off meds for 20 months

[morgana]

Hi @peaceandlove and @DinaDina, i do not get it very often these days, i can go the whole night without having to go to the toilet, only time it gets worse if i am having hots sweats and more cortisol levels are too high and my histamine levels are way too high...changed it with diet, i feel its due to the high cortisol levels, and my body going through stress of withdrawal, one day at work i didnt go to the toilet for 9 hrs...i thought yah!...lol

 

hope your both doing well  cheers morgana