success ☼ bambam: is this withdrawal?

[bambam]

Is dissociation the same as DPDR? I still take the ativan as needed. Once in January and four times in February so far when the panic is too bad.

[Shep]

8 hours ago, Atnyxoxo said:

Is dissociation the same as DPDR?

 

There's a lot of similarities. Please see:

 

Derealization or Depersonalization (DR and DP)

 

Do members' posts in that thread describe what you're going through? 

 

8 hours ago, Atnyxoxo said:

I still take the ativan as needed. Once in January and four times in February so far when the panic is too bad.

 

Do you remember what days in January and February you took them? Was the timing close together or spaced out throughout the month of February? Just trying to see if the periodic benzo may be causing more harm than good. 

[bambam]

January 12 I took ativan then the  4,6, 25, and 27 of February. I’ve read the thread and some of it sounds like what I’m experiencing but not all of it. Closing my eyes makes the sensation in my brain worse which leads to panic. I can’t even nap anymore and bedtime is difficult 

[bambam]

The anxiety and panic have picked up. If this is a wave it’s lasting a long time. I thought waves were supposed to get shorter and easier? 

[Shep]

22 hours ago, Atnyxoxo said:

January 12 I took ativan then the  4,6, 25, and 27 of February.  

 

You may want to place this information in your signature to keep track. A direct link is here:

 

Create Your Signature in "Account Settings". 

 

Also, please add the year for your stop date. Was it in 2022? 

 

Thanks for letting us know this information. It's good to know you likely aren't dependent on it.

 

22 hours ago, Atnyxoxo said:

I’ve read the thread and some of it sounds like what I’m experiencing but not all of it. Closing my eyes makes the sensation in my brain worse which leads to panic. I can’t even nap anymore and bedtime is difficult 

 

What sensation are you feeling in your brain? Is it dizziness? 

 

4 hours ago, Atnyxoxo said:

The anxiety and panic have picked up. If this is a wave it’s lasting a long time. I thought waves were supposed to get shorter and easier? 

 

Unfortunately, some people don't have shorter and waves. From my own experience, my worst waves were followed by the best windows. It was a very rocky ride to get out of withdrawal and into the healing space.

 

Don't give up. You may also be someone who has brutal waves for a long time before healing happens. 

[bambam]

23 minutes ago, Shep said:

What sensation are you feeling in your brain? Is it dizziness? 

I’m not sure how to describe it. It’s there when I am awake but gets worse when my eyes are closed. I think it might be dissociation but the sensation is so hard to describe 

 

Thank  you. No doctor or therapist seems to believe that 8 weeks of a drug caused my waves of anxiety and panic, derealization, and dissociation this far out but I know I didn’t have these issues before. I am Praying to feel normal again one day. 

26 minutes ago, Shep said:

From my own experience, my worst waves were followed by the best windows

did all symptoms resolved in windows or just get less intense?

24 minutes ago, Shep said:

Don't give up. You may also be someone who has brutal waves for a long time before healing happens.

[Shep]

12 hours ago, Atnyxoxo said:

I’m not sure how to describe it. It’s there when I am awake but gets worse when my eyes are closed. I think it might be dissociation but the sensation is so hard to describe 

 

I'm not sure what this is, Atnyxoxo, but if you didn't have it before these drugs, I would wager it's related to the drugs and especially to withdrawal. 

 

Dissociation is a disconnect from your surroundings. It may get worse when you close your eyes because you're no longer seeing what's around you. 

 

12 hours ago, Atnyxoxo said:

did all symptoms resolved in windows or just get less intense?

 

It was a mixed bag of morphing symptoms until everything started to resolve. 

 

[bambam]

Is it normal to feel foggy and out of it everyday almost 6 months out? My “windows” the anxiety and dissociation calms down but I always feel derealization and fogginess and hazy almost. Thank you.

[Shep]

Yes, it's definitely normal to feel foggy and out of it everyday 6 months out. Unfortunately, 6 months is still early in the recovery timeline. 

 

Very glad to read you're having windows with decreased anxiety and dissociation. That's a really good sign that you're healing, slowly, but still healing.

 

Are you able to go outside for a gentle walk in the sunshine every day when the weather allows? 

[bambam]

I was having mild anxiety some days and went two weeks feeling pretty normal then on the 20 I was woken out of my sleep with the worst panic I’ve experienced  so far. I usually have windows in the evening but on the 26 in the evening I experienced severe dissociation and a horrible panic attack. Is this normal? The panic these two times was the worst it’s been since this all started in September. 

[Shep]

19 hours ago, Atnyxoxo said:

I was having mild anxiety some days and went two weeks feeling pretty normal then on the 20 I was woken out of my sleep with the worst panic I’ve experienced  so far. I usually have windows in the evening but on the 26 in the evening I experienced severe dissociation and a horrible panic attack. Is this normal? The panic these two times was the worst it’s been since this all started in September. 

 

You have this in your signature:

 

Quote

0.5mg Ativan as needed January 12. Feb 4,6,25,27. March 1, 21, 24, 26,27 2023

 

The Ativan may be causing the problem -- the sudden onset of worsening symptoms may be the start of interdose Ativan withdrawal due to dependency. From March 21 - 27, you've taken Ativan 4 times in one week. While it's unusual to become dependent on a benzo in a week, it's not unheard of on the larger benzo withdrawal forums. 

 

This is even being taken seriously by regulators. This is the latest FDA warning for benzos:

 

FDA requiring Boxed Warning updated to improve safe use of benzodiazepine drug class

 

Note this part: Physical dependence can occur when benzodiazepines are taken steadily for several days to weeks, even as prescribed.

 

At this point, you need to decide to either take Ativan every day, stabilize, and then do a very slow taper or stop the benzo before further dependency develops. It's hard to say how dependent you are at this time, though. This is why we don't recommend using benzos for upticks in symptoms. It's really playing with fire. 

 

Please take the time to read through the new FDA updates and decide what you want to do. Now is the time to set up a game plan for how you want to handle your symptoms. 

[bambam]

3 hours ago, Shep said:

 

You have this in your signature:

 

 

The Ativan may be causing the problem -- the sudden onset of worsening symptoms may be the start of interdose Ativan withdrawal due to dependency. From March 21 - 27, you've taken Ativan 4 times in one week. While it's unusual to become dependent on a benzo in a week, it's not unheard of on the larger benzo withdrawal forums. 

 

This is even being taken seriously by regulators. This is the latest FDA warning for benzos:

 

FDA requiring Boxed Warning updated to improve safe use of benzodiazepine drug class

 

Note this part: Physical dependence can occur when benzodiazepines are taken steadily for several days to weeks, even as prescribed.

 

At this point, you need to decide to either take Ativan every day, stabilize, and then do a very slow taper or stop the benzo before further dependency develops. It's hard to say how dependent you are at this time, though. This is why we don't recommend using benzos for upticks in symptoms. It's really playing with fire. 

 

Please take the time to read through the new FDA updates and decide what you want to do. Now is the time to set up a game plan for how you want to handle your symptoms. 

The first panic attack came before using the Ativan for four days. I hadn’t taken an ativan since March 1 and had a random horrible panic attack on the 20. I have always been hesitant to use the ativan due to dependency but sometimes the panic gets too bad and I have two small kids. I do not wish to develop an addiction and go through anymore withdrawals.  I will read over the information you’ve attached. Thank you.

[Shep]

7 hours ago, Atnyxoxo said:

The first panic attack came before using the Ativan for four days. I hadn’t taken an ativan since March 1 and had a random horrible panic attack on the 20. I have always been hesitant to use the ativan due to dependency but sometimes the panic gets too bad and I have two small kids. I do not wish to develop an addiction and go through anymore withdrawals.  I will read over the information you’ve attached. Thank you.

 

Did anything change that may have caused the sudden increase in symptoms? Any change of diet, such as sugar, caffeine, alcohol? Or life stressors? 

 

If not, it may just be a garden variety wave, which will pass. Try to do as much self care as you can. 

 

 

[bambam]

23 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

Did anything change that may have caused the sudden increase in symptoms? Any change of diet, such as sugar, caffeine, alcohol? Or life stressors? 

 

If not, it may just be a garden variety wave, which will pass. Try to do as much self care as you can. 

 

 

Not that I can think of. I had a two week window where I felt almost normal then one night I woke up with the terror level panic attack and now I’ve been feeling panic everyday. The ativan doesn’t even help it barely takes the edge off. Maybe just a set back or a wave but I am very afraid and losing hope of recovery. I am terrified I won’t make it through this.

[Shep]

12 hours ago, Atnyxoxo said:

Not that I can think of. I had a two week window where I felt almost normal then one night I woke up with the terror level panic attack and now I’ve been feeling panic everyday. The ativan doesn’t even help it barely takes the edge off. Maybe just a set back or a wave but I am very afraid and losing hope of recovery. I am terrified I won’t make it through this.

 

Having a bad wave after a window is perfectly normal during withdrawal. Several things can happen - sometimes during windows, we may overdo things in an effort to catch up with things we can't do during waves. Also, after a nice, long window, a wave can feel extra brutal simply because we've been feeling so good. It's easy for hope to get lost, which can lead to catastrophic thinking, which makes it more likely the panic will continue. But remember the waves are a normal part of withdrawal and they will pass. Try not to go into catastrophic thinking. Here is information on not spiraling into negative thinking:

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

Sometimes it can help to "change the channel":

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Since the Ativan isn't helping, I would stop taking it before dependency sets in. Instead, make sure you're eating healthy, drinking enough water, getting a walk outside every day, and doing as much self care as you can. 

 

[bambam]

On 3/30/2023 at 4:14 AM, Shep said:

 

Having a bad wave after a window is perfectly normal during withdrawal. Several things can happen - sometimes during windows, we may overdo things in an effort to catch up with things we can't do during waves. Also, after a nice, long window, a wave can feel extra brutal simply because we've been feeling so good. It's easy for hope to get lost, which can lead to catastrophic thinking, which makes it more likely the panic will continue. But remember the waves are a normal part of withdrawal and they will pass. Try not to go into catastrophic thinking. Here is information on not spiraling into negative thinking:

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

Sometimes it can help to "change the channel":

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Since the Ativan isn't helping, I would stop taking it before dependency sets in. Instead, make sure you're eating healthy, drinking enough water, getting a walk outside every day, and doing as much self care as you can. 

 

I haven’t taken anymore ativan since Wednesday. I experienced the worst panic attack ever while at my grandmas house in another city. I started feeling nauseous on Tuesday night and have been sick everyday since. I wake up dry heaving with diarrhea. I went to the ER and they did labs and a CT and said it’s probably a virus and not ativan withdrawal. I explained I’ve taken it 17 times over the last six months and then four days in a row and was concerned that it could be withdrawal from that causing my symptoms but the doctor laughed at me. I truly hope this is not ativan withdrawal and a virus. I hope the ativan did not set back my lamictal recovery. I don’t understand why this wave caused such intense panic attacks. I am trying not to have catastrophic thinking but it is hard. I live in fear of the next attack. This whole journey I have always been able to go out and see family even if I was anxious but this panic attack at my grandmas house really rattled me and now I don’t want to leave home. 

[bambam]

A lot of symptoms that went away have come back. Cortisol wakes ups and insomnia. I wake up and dose off multiple times a night. Panic at bedtime is worse and i dissociate bad when I close my eyes to sleep. These things had been getting better. It feels like I’m right back at the beginning and all my progress is gone. Is this normal for waves also? This wave has lasted over three weeks. Before the waves only lasted a few days then they started lasting longer and longer.

[bambam]

Would my case be withdrawal or some kind of shock to my CNS caused by lamictal? My symptoms got worse as I went up on the dose of lamictal. I believe I had some form of kindling since I had taken lamictal two separate times before and came off very fast. Any symptoms I had the last two times I stopped lamictal I attributed to being pregnant. I never got anxiety or dissociation or panic attacks the last times I stopped it just fatigue nausea and derealization. I believe my Reaction to taking it this time was caused by kindling or a destabilized cns from the COVID vaccine. I noticed I started being sensitive to caffeine after the vaccine but panic and severe anxiety started at 75 mg of lamictal. @Altostrata @Shep just wanted to get

your input on this. Everyone thinks im

crazy for thinking these things are possible,

Thank you.

[Shep]

On 4/2/2023 at 1:51 PM, Atnyxoxo said:

I haven’t taken anymore ativan since Wednesday.

 

Have your symptoms gotten worse since you stopped Ativan? 

 

It's likely any recent upticks in symptoms are more related to the Ativan than your lamictal taper from 2022. You may have developed a benzo dependency.

 

Please post your thoughts on this. 

[bambam]

4 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Have your symptoms gotten worse since you stopped Ativan? 

 

It's likely any recent upticks in symptoms are more related to the Ativan than your lamictal taper from 2022. You may have developed a benzo dependency.

 

Please post your thoughts on this. 

The anxiety and panic have not gotten worse but the dissociation has. I don’t think the ativan helped much at all. All my symptoms started when I got to 75 mg of lamictal and have been present in waves since. The panic came out of nowhere long before using any ativan and I could go weeks without needing one so I’m not sure if it is related or not. I’ve been struggling with symptoms since taking the lamictal that’s why I’m curious if it’s some sort of Cns damage rather than withdrawal

[Shep]

21 hours ago, Atnyxoxo said:

I’ve been struggling with symptoms since taking the lamictal that’s why I’m curious if it’s some sort of Cns damage rather than withdrawal

 

Withdrawal itself is damage to the nervous system, along with affecting other systems. These threads give good descriptions of the types of damage caused by these drugs: 

 

What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

Hypersensitivity and Kindling

 

 

[bambam]

2 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Withdrawal itself is damage to the nervous system, along with affecting other systems. These threads give good descriptions of the types of damage caused by these drugs: 

 

What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

Hypersensitivity and Kindling

 

 

Yes I believe I had some kind of sensitivity or kindling since the higher the dose the worse my reaction got. This wave is lasting  very long and getting worse. I am praying to be ok

[bambam]

Don’t mean to be annoying double posting. I’m not having windows anymore and the dissociation is getting more intense. Should I be worried? Thank you. 

[Shep]

@Atnyxoxo What types of non-drug coping skills are you using? Are you going into emotional spirals? 

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

It's really important to learn to float and breathe through these symptoms. It will make your recovery much easier. The non-drug coping techniques don't work overnight - they take practice. But they do work. 

[bambam]

1 hour ago, Shep said:

@Atnyxoxo What types of non-drug coping skills are you using? Are you going into emotional spirals? 

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

It's really important to learn to float and breathe through these symptoms. It will make your recovery much easier. The non-drug coping techniques don't work overnight - they take practice. But they do work. 

I try mediation and breathing and changing the channel but most of it doesn’t work. It feels like I’m back at the beginning I’ve been waking up with my heart racing again and that hasn’t happened in months. I am trying not to spiral but I’m getting worried that I’m going to check out of reality completely. 

[bambam]

Looking back over my thread the only change that could’ve caused the panic attack on the 20 of March was I started taking magnesium glycinate. I think it is giving me more anxiety and dissociation 

[Shep]

5 hours ago, Atnyxoxo said:

Looking back over my thread the only change that could’ve caused the panic attack on the 20 of March was I started taking magnesium glycinate. I think it is giving me more anxiety and dissociation 

 

You may be getting a paradoxical reaction to the magnesium glycinate, which can be sedating. Sometimes sedating supplements will go paradoxical, meaning it's alerting instead of calming to the nervous system. You may want to reduce the dose of this supplement and see if you feel better. 

[bambam]

Just venting. Went to my pcp today and she told me there’s no way the lamictal made changes to my brain in only eight weeks and couldn’t be still affecting me. It truly sucks not being believed. My husband is the only one. He knows how I was before and after taking it. All the doubt makes me question myself too and if it’s possible this is withdrawal. I feel trapped in my mind. I’m constantly seeking reassurance from him. Tired of being anxious everyday. Trying to change the channel and accept and float but this truly feels like I’ll never recover. I know these thoughts aren’t good to focus on and I am really trying. I just want to feel normal again. Tomorrow is 7 months since I stopped lamictal. What a wild thing the human brain is

[bambam]

@Shep as far as the possibility of the magnesium going paradoxical could it also worsen the disassociation?

[Shep]

12 hours ago, Atnyxoxo said:

@Shep as far as the possibility of the magnesium going paradoxical could it also worsen the disassociation?

 

Yes, paradoxical reactions can ramp up any of your symptoms, including disassociation. 

[bambam]

Darn it. Definitely feels like I’ve had a massive setback and all my progress is erased. My symptoms feel like when I first stopped lamictal. @Shep how long do you think it would take for the magnesium effects to wear off? I stopped it a few days ago when I made the correlation.

[Shep]

Please use distraction to get you through this, @Atnyxoxo. I don't know how long it will last, but distraction can help calm your nervous system so you can go back to doing non-drug coping skills. Working a jigsaw puzzle (even ones online), listening to music, taking a calming warm bath, watching a favorite TV or internet show, even if you really can't follow along. The more you can let your nervous system know that there's no danger and nothing to get upset about, the more the nervous system will calm down. 

[bambam]

8 hours ago, Shep said:

Please use distraction to get you through this, @Atnyxoxo. I don't know how long it will last, but distraction can help calm your nervous system so you can go back to doing non-drug coping skills. Working a jigsaw puzzle (even ones online), listening to music, taking a calming warm bath, watching a favorite TV or internet show, even if you really can't follow along. The more you can let your nervous system know that there's no danger and nothing to get upset about, the more the nervous system will calm down. 

Thank you. I am trying. I’m stuck between is this withdrawal or just how I am but I don’t think I felt this way before taking the lamictal. I know I didn’t dissociate or have panic attacks. My anxiety was very much situational and as soon as the situation was over I was ok. The anxiety feels very much chemical. I am hoping I did not damage my brain to the point of no return. The hardest part is not knowing when or if I’ll recover. I’ll try not to post unless I have a positive update. Thank you shep.

[bambam]

@Shep

i have been in a wave for other a month. Anxious everyday. Worse dissociation and derealization. The magnesium possibly caused a setback. Is this normal? I am trying to stay calm and float but I am feeling afraid. My issues started while on lamictal so maybe this is an adverse reaction. I’m losing hope that I will be normal ever again. I know I did not have these issues before starting this medication. The anxiety I felt was very mild and situational. I’ve had every lab test under the sun plus an MRI. All normal. 

[Shep]

@Atnyxoxo Please see the below quote, as it may help you engage more in the site in a way that gets you the support you need. The best way to get support on this site is to give support. This really is a kind and caring community, but it helps if you leave your thread and visit others. This quote is off the Symptoms and Self Care forum, but it easily applies here, too. 

 

On 4/6/2023 at 10:16 AM, Onmyway said:

How to engage with others on SA? 

SA is different from other forums you may have participated in. We are dedicated to advice on tapering and general support rather than general discussions and socializing, though that may be a part of the support. 

 

Moderators are not always able to provide emotional support (we are not qualified or have the bandwidth) but you can easily provide and get peer support on the site. While the Symptoms and Self-Care portion of the website can be useful to connect to others with similar issues, a better way is to post in others' intro topics, especially those who are going through similar issues to what you are going through, i.e. withdrawing from the same drug, struggling with the same symptoms having similar family concerns and so on. Beware, however, that when you post on someone's thread you are 'a guest in their house' and do not make it all about your case. Instead offer words of support. They will likely do the same in return. However, like in real life, do not feel obligated to offer support to people that do not usually reciprocate. 

 

The people who get the most out of SA are those that engage with others and provide support as much as they seek it. You may not be always in the best frame of mind or even able to cheer on others but people appreciate even the little bit that you can do and they will do the same for you in your time of need. 

 

[bambam]

2 hours ago, Shep said:

@Atnyxoxo Please see the below quote, as it may help you engage more in the site in a way that gets you the support you need. The best way to get support on this site is to give support. This really is a kind and caring community, but it helps if you leave your thread and visit others. This quote is off the Symptoms and Self Care forum, but it easily applies here, too. 

 

 

Hi yes I message quite a few other members but I will start posting so it can be public. I was mainly asking you since you have recovered and have experience. Everything I’ve read on the site says waves get shorter and easier. Mine have gradually been getting longer and stronger. I think the magnesium caused a setback maybe that’s why? I’m unsure