JackalSmacker Through the woods?

[JackalSmacker]

Yeah, I feel pretty good so I'll just stick with the 10 mg prozac/12.5 mg zoloft for the next week and then drop the zoloft all together. After that I'll just taper 10% every month or so until I am liberated.

[Altostrata]

Excellent plan.

[JackalSmacker]

Thanks, I like to think so

[JackalSmacker]

I don't suppose there would be any real downside to staying on the prozac for a few months after dropping the zoloft, right? Just to give myself some time to even out before reducing again.

[bubble]

holds are always welcome so I don't see any harm in that plan either.

 

I was trying to inform myself about your situation by looking at your signature but it seems that it needs updating

[JackalSmacker]

Yes, thank you for pointing that out. I will officially drop all zoloft today and see how it goes.

[MrAnxious]

Jackal! If you wanna chat with me on Fb or on here, shoot me a email on here. I believe I can help you on this journey man.

[Rhiannon]

I don't suppose there would be any real downside to staying on the prozac for a few months after dropping the zoloft, right? Just to give myself some time to even out before reducing again.

 

I would recommend this actually. The transition from Zoloft to Prozac is going to have some fallout and it's best to give that time to settle before introducing a whole new taper.

[Rhiannon]

Also I am very curious about the April 39 in your signature! I want more days, can you tell me how you get those extra ones? 

[JackalSmacker]

What, you guys don't have 40-day months?

[JackalSmacker]

Update: Been having some nausea and mid-range anxiety for the past few days; nothing terrible, but certainly not that comfortable. I'm not sure if this is from the buildup of prozac, the absence of zoloft, or perhaps both. Just hope things settle down here shortly. Was thinking that maybe lowering the prozac to 5 mg might be the way to go, since it has been known to actually cause anxiety, agitation, etc. Any thoughts?

[Altostrata]

This is probably that fallout Rhi mentioned. It takes about 4 days for a dosage change to register, so you're right on time. Nausea is a common withdrawal symptom. I would hang in at 10mg Prozac for a bit.

[JackalSmacker]

Well alright! Nausea is gone, anxiety is very minimal and lightheadedness and some brain fog are the only real discomforts at this point. Started taking niacin three days ago as I read it can help with anxiety/depression and so far it seems to be working. I take 250 mg after each meal but plan on raising that to 500 mg next week. All I take other than that is a whole-food multivatimin.

[Rhiannon]

Just fyi, B complex vitamins can be tricky in withdrawal and more is not necessarily better. 

 

I think there's a thread somewhere on niacin...probably under Symptoms and Self-Care.

[JackalSmacker]

Yeah, I know they can kind of rev you up sometimes but I haven't really noticed anything negative. Like I said the niacin seems to be helping, if anything.

[Altostrata]

Sounds like the switch is going okay. Yay!

[Rhiannon]

What, you guys don't have 40-day months?

 

No, dangit! But we have legal cannabis...so it feels like 40 days... ;-)

[JackalSmacker]

Update: Hit a bit of a snag today as the dizziness, brain fog and general out-of-it feeling did not really subside after lunch like they normally do. Frustrating, to say the least. The heavy head and quasi-vertigo are just mainly annoying but the spacey feeling is very, very disconcerting. It's almost exactly how it feels to come up on LSD or something, when you feel your mind begin to detach from reality and that panic sets in. At least I can still function and go to work, though, so I've got that going for me. Guess I'll just have to let this little wave wash over me and hope for the next window!

[JackalSmacker]

Well after a REALLY difficult Saturday (rampant anxiety; confusion; dark, instrusive thoughts) I have had a string of good days and am feeling on top of things again. Not sure how much longer to hold here at 10 mg, but was thinking of going down to 9 mg next week. I recently read somewhere that they found 5 mg of prozac to be as effective as 20 mg and more so than 40, so maybe I'll feel better as I go down on the dosage?

[Altostrata]

they found 5 mg of prozac to be as effective as 20 mg and more so than 40

 

 

Not sure where this is from, but I am sure they're talking about "depressed" people, not people trying to go off drugs.

 

Withdrawal is not "depression."

 

Given your last reduction was May 14 and you're having some signs of instability, I would wait until June 14 at least to make another cut. Perhaps you should think of 5% reductions every few weeks instead of 10% per month. It can get more difficult to reduce the lower you go.

[mammaP]

Glad you are feeling better JS. I would wait a few weeks before cutting again if I were you,

a long hold occasionally allows the brain to stabilise properly before the next cut. I felt better with each drop

but went too fast and it led to having some pretty hard withdrawal symptoms. Enjoy the window! 

[JackalSmacker]

Yeah I think I will end up holding until June 14, as Alto suggested. That's why this site is so helpful: it often becomes so confusing during withdrawal and we're in such a hurry to feel better that we kind of get lost and need an outside observer to set us straight. My last cut was indeed on May 14 and going lower before even one month has elapsed would be foolish. I guess I figured that since I'm on prozac now I can make reductions without the same ramifications - which is only partly true - but I really, really don't want to find out that hard way that this isn't the case.

[JackalSmacker]

Well it's been a month since my last cut and am not sure whether to try another reduction or hold here for maybe another few weeks. No serious physical symptoms, but the lightheadedness, brain fog and general feeling of disconnection is really annoying. It's like my head is a helium balloon or something! Just wondering if I should see if it clears up before cutting again or if maybe it will diminish as I get lower on the medication. Opinions, please.

[Rhiannon]

My guess is that those are still withdrawal type symptoms (nervous system instability caused by all the drugs and changes).  A month isn't really a very long hold. It often takes several months for people to really stabilize.

 

However, your symptoms don't sound severe or disabling. Since you're not sure if it's withdrawal or side effects, you could try a very small cut (say 0.1 mg or 0.2 mg, 1% or 2%) and see what happens. If you do that, be sure to keep a daily journal of your dosage and whatever symptoms you experience. Rank the symptoms on a scale of 1 to 5 or such.

 

The thing is, your true guru and expert on this is going to be your own body. Everyone is so different and everyone's history is different too, so there is no universal guide to follow. Your own body is the expert. So you may need to experiment a bit, very conservatively, to find out what works for you.

 

And when I say very conservatively let me point out that if you cut too little, the worst thing that happens is that you go a little slower than you could have, or you need to cut again sooner than you'd planned. If you cut too much, well, you know what that can feel like. Pretty awful. It's always best to undershoot IMO.

[JackalSmacker]

Thank you, Rhi. I will hold through this week and see how I feel next week.

[JackalSmacker]

So I'm still holding at 10 mg prozac and things are about the same: low-level anxiety with occasional panic attacks; very lightheaded, detached feeling; brain fog. At this point it's hard to tell if the low dosage of medication (i.e. not enough) is causing this or if the mere presence of the medication (too much) is doing it. I've been holding here for over three months so it seems like things should have evened out a bit more by now, which is frustrating because pretty much the whole reason I decided to go off medication was that I felt crappy while taking it, but now to think that I might feel just as bad while NOT on it is a painful reality to accept. I just recently started a workout routine so maybe that will help but has anyone here started feeling better the lower they went on their taper?

[Addax]

Jackelsmacker-

 

I held at 9mg of Prozac from mid-April till just last week when I made my first cut of 10%. The side effects I experienced from Prozac for so many years have almost completely abated. I think I noticed it the most ( along with my anxiety decreasing significantly) over the last 6 weeks.

 

I don't know if the fact that you had tapered Zoloft as well will influence your experience, but I imagine it might.

 

Exercise did/does wonders for my anxiety. In fact I would exercise when I felt most anxious. It was hard to get started sometimes, but I felt much better afterward. I just read somewhere that in regard to exercise and depression or anxiety it's a good idea to exercise in the morning when cortisol levels are highest.

 

It really is hard to know what is causing what sometimes. I struggle with that too.

[JackalSmacker]

Thanks for your reply, Addax. Good to talk to someone else going through pretty much the same ordeal and even better to hear that your side effects have almost completely faded! Was severe dizziness/ spaciness one of your symptoms? Because right now it's kicking my ass; so hard to pay attention to anything for more than a few seconds. If so did you find anything that helped? Secondly, what method are you using to make your cuts?

[Addax]

My "dizziness" was like a shifting feeling in my head. I guess I'd describe it as feeling like my brain would shift to catch up with my eyes or when I would move my head. I experienced it much worse when my cuts were bigger (before I knew better to taper more slowly). It would become so uncomfortable and frustrated. There were times I would almost be on the edge of nausea. I can say that now, IF I get that shifting feeling it's rare and quick. However, with my recent cut I've felt it a bit more frequently. It's tolerable though and still seems to be infrequent.

 

Now that you mention it, Being able to focus and pay attention enough to read something or write anything lengthy was an issue for a couple months for sure! I'd forgotten about that. It wasn't part of the dizziness for me. It was accompanied by a vague sense of feeling agitated, or like mild Akathisia or something. It sucked. I got a twinge of it yesterday and literally had to tell myself to push through because I'm working on a time sensitive project. It took a couple minutes for me to shift my attention from my difficulty focusing back to what I was doing and I nearly broke into a sweat!

 

Oh... But I also had horrible dizziness upon getting up from a reclined or seated position. It was so bad I would have to hold on to something for several seconds until it passed or I would absolutely have fallen. I was convinced it was at least partly due to my low blood pressure as Its something I've delt with for many years, but never as badly as I had during the first few months at 9mg. I still get it, but in the last month or so I no longer have to steady myself when I get up. I still don't know if it's related, but I suspect it is.

 

I didn't really do anything for the dizziness. If I'd known something to do I would have absolutely done it. It was really just a waiting game, during which I was scared it was permanent.

 

Even with the improvements if a wave hits I forget all about them and become convinced I'll always feel crappy, sad, dizzy, anxious, or what have you, and then lose hope. I have found that our minds can be very mean to us on this journey. It's like our mind won't let us access the memory of what it felt like when we had a window, and allows us to go on thinking it has always been bad and will always be, even though it's not true and intellectually we can acknowledge that. It just feels so true... Sorry to ramble...

 

What's your dizziness like? When does it happen?

 

Is the difficulty focusing part of the dizziness?

 

I'm using homemade liquid Prozac to taper. I did a 10% reduction last week to 8.1mg. The 8.1 is really an estimate since my syringe does have lines indicating .1 mg. It was a little bumpy for the 1st week, including a wave of anxiety or Akathisia when I first wake up, but nothing like some of the horrible withdrawals I've had during other attempts to get off this damn drug. As of yesterday the bumps or wave have smoothed considerably.

[JackalSmacker]

I'm familiar with the shifting feeling you mention, as I had it really badly the time I went off zoloft cold turkey. I used to call it "whooshes" because the sensation always seemed to be accompanied by an audible (in my mind, anyway) rushing sound and then almost like a slight tugging at the facial muscles, especially around the mouth. Those and the brain zaps seemed to go hand-in-hand. Anway, this time around I'm not really getting those concentrated instances of zaps and whooshes, because now it's like a constant state of disorentation where instead of that split second that it takes your brain to catch up after turning your head it never quite seems to catch up. It makes me just want to zone out and stare at a wall or something. As for the liquid taper, I would like to try that but somehow don't trust myself to prepare the solution well enough to get truly accurate reductions. I might just wait until my next appointment (in October) and request liquid prozac for the duration of this Herculean Labor.

[Altostrata]

Any doctor can prescribe liquid Prozac, it doesn't have to be a specialist.

[JackalSmacker]

I suppose I could always just have her call it in to my pharmacy before my next appointment - just hope it's not too pricey. Another thing that concerns me is evening out before I make a cut, but since there is always the possibility that I won't ever truly get right until I've been off the medication for a while, I feel like I'm in a tough spot. I don't want to hold for another three months only to discover that I'm in the same boat I'm in now, know what I mean? I guess at least then I'd know the only course of action would be to begin reducing at the 10% rate.

[Altostrata]

This is a good online pharmacy https://www.healthwarehouse.com/solr/result/?q=fluoxetine+20mg+5ml+solution

[JackalSmacker]

At kind of a crossroads here. The anxiety, confusion, dizziness and just all around crappy feelings do not seem to be going away and I'm wondering several things: Am I perhaps having an adverse reaction to prozac and is going down to 5mg perhaps the best way to deal with this? I know it's a 50% drop but if it means a reduction in these symptoms it might be worth a little future discomfort. I'm also wondering if maybe switching back to 25mg of zoloft and then doing a slow taper from there might be the best way to go. I'm just in pain and confused at this point and looking to let a little light into this dark situation.

[JackalSmacker]

I just feel like if I were going to stabilize at this dose I would have done so by now...

[Altostrata]

What is your daily symptom pattern relative to when you take the Prozac? Please keep notes on paper.