leahy Tapering off Remeron, headaches, nausea, sleep

[leahy]

Does anyone have experience with Remeron W/D symtoms? I had to reduce the dosage of remeron because the dosage was dangerously high. Debilitating migraines take over my life. Remeron w/d effects are extremely difficult. I went from remeron 90 to 30 and previously reduced xanax from 4mg to 2mg. 

I am trying to taper Remeron to reduce the dosage. Prior to this I had already begun tapering xanax on my own so that has been at 2 mg for a while.  It's imperative to my doctor that I to reduce the remeron immediately. I must not be ready for 30 mg cut. I went back up to 45mg last night to lose the headache. 30 wasn't working. 45mg worked. Thank God for one good day. Does anyone have info about remeron?

Could it be reducing remeron has caused a xanax w/d even though I haven't changed xanax?" I read that in The Road Back - a nutritional supplement program. Does anyone have any tips for me? or experience with difficulty getting off remeron. Why cant I go off the A/D first? It's the greater of two evils.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, leahy.

 

Please read Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first? and Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

We do not advocate always going off the benzo first. If you are having adverse effects from Remeron, it seems that is the drug to go off first.

 

Use search in the Intro forum to see others' experiences with mirtazapine. Use site search to see our discussions of The Road Back.

[Fresh]

Hi  leahy , welcome.

I agree with you that the drop from 45 to 30mg was too much.    This site recommends decrease of no more than 10%

in order to avoid withdrawal symptoms.

Once you have stabilized on 45mg ,  you may want to wait a few weeks before beginning to taper slowly.

See "Why Taper By 10%".

 

Good to hear the headaches have stopped.

 

Best wishes ,  Fresh

[leahy]

15 horrible years on Remeron and I want off this med so badly! I began to reduce remeron from 60 to 45 on February 14 as requested by my "new" Psych/doctor. (I was taking 90 mg at one time - it's all a blur) After my March 13 appointment I was to told to reduce to 30. Not knowing about wd I decided to stop completely for 2 days. Then because of sleep issues reinstated to 15. I developed a migraine that wouldn't quit. I felt so ill - nauseous and severe migraine for WEEKS nonstop. After 14 days I sought medical attention from my internist. She prescribed Fiorocet and that I see a neurologist because she could find nothing wrong with me. I HAD NO IDEA I WAS IN WD! I went back up to 30 mg to stabilize.

 

All this led me here searching for answers/help/any tip at all. So thank you for being here. I too am trying Glinda's method. I figure I always felt terrible anyway I might as well accomplish something while I am suffering. This month I went back to 30 for a while, then to 15 for 2 days. In the middle of the third night woke with severe migraine, nausea, and racing thoughts. I had to get up and take the second 15 to get back to sleep. So 15, 15, 30, 22.5, 22.5. I'm hoping this woks. It's the terrible awakenings that are the most difficult. I can't think straight, feel confused, randomly lost my train of thought mid sentence. For now, I live for your postings. You are all I have. Oh my, that sounded depressed. I am not. I'm just feeling sick and want to get well and get my mind back. God bless all of you. ~Leahy

[ang]

Hello Mirtazipine, ie remeron, is a bad one.   You have been on it a long, long time.  My psych put me on that one, plus zoloft, after my attempt to get off effexor (also a bad one).

My advice? Reinstate, at 25- 30mg...stay there for three months, and do a three year taper.  And damn I am serious.

 

A person who knows more than me will be here shortly, to help.......a mediator....... I only know I did it all wrong, be wise, taper so, so slowly.............

And welcome, you are amongst friends, this site is my lifeline....... hugs x

 

The awakenings? Yes, you have to cope with that also, and that is the hardest, realising you have not been "the real you" for years....that is the hardest for me... but I am determined, I like regaining my brain, but it is difficult......    the ""awakening" is hard.

[leahy]

Dear Ang,

 

I am so happy and relived to hear from you. Your advice is very good. Staying on 25-30 would be wonderful and really a huge drop from where I was. If I can stablize on that it would be awesome. Thank you for reaching out to me. I really, really, really, really, appreciate hearing another voice through this process.

 

Leahy

[glina]

hi leahy . . . it's glina . . .

 

thanks for taking a few minutes to post on my thread.

 

hey kiddo . . . the approach I'm using to reduce mirtazapine in not generally recommended.

 

i'm using it only because extraordinary (very bad) circumstances are keeping me from using the 10% dose reduction approach.

 

if things were different for me i would be using a much slower and steadier reduction approach for sure. (and, if things change for me along the way I will.)

 

what you describe experiencing now, reminds me of my first experience with reducing and discontinuing "mind" medicine . . . pretty much doing it on my own without good info. from my doctor.

 

what helped me then was stabilizing on a reinstated consistent daily dose before beginning a very slow dose reduction.

 

that did a couple of things for me . . . it helped me feel better overall, which let me learn more and kinda understand what i might experience when i felt strong enough to begin the slow reduction.

 

i don't know if this info. will be of any help to you . . . but maybe.

 

either way . . . hang in there

 

peace as best you may know it.

 

glina

[leahy]

Thanks Glina!

 

I feel very sick today after 22mg for 2 nights. I was tricked by the iitial rapid decrease 60 to 45 with no problem, 45 to 30 is where I started to hit a brick wall. It's hard to understand that at the loere doses we feel the decrease more severely. So tonight I'll move up to 30 and hope tomorrow will be a better more productive day. And I can fight the fight with more strength. Your advice makes good sense to me. Thank you so much for writing to me! I feel alone in this sickness, having no one to explain it to who actually understands. Especially my doctors. No clue there.

Best to you, Leahy {Hugs}

[Altostrata]

Welcome, leahy.

 

If I were you, I would stay at 30mg for perhaps a couple of months, at least, to let your nervous system settle down from all the drug changes.

 

Do not skip doses; try to take them at the same time each day.

 

When you no longer have withdrawal symptoms, you might consider very carefully reducing at about 10% per month. See

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

[leahy]

Thank you Altostrata. I am going to do exactly that. Reinstating 30 mg tonight. Life will be so much better without the headache and nausea. I've had a 27 day migraine. My general doctor thought it was a migraine. She wanted me to see a nuerologist it was so severe. I've seen her for migraines several times over the past year and a half. She even sent me for an mRI last summer. Only now do I realize that the headaches coincided with cutting back on remeron in the hopesof losing weight. Would a nuerologist be able to help me with wd?

 

Thank you so, so much for writing to me. Leahy

[Altostrata]

Very few neurologists are knowledgeable about withdrawal syndromes.

[leahy]

Yes, Alto, I figured the neurologist wouldn't know about my situation so I never did make an appointment. I am up very early but slept mostly through the night after taking 30 mg Remeron. It is shocking to learn that the medical professional s know so little about coming off psychoactive medications. Where is a person supposed to turn to. I have been a hostage to the medication and didn't knoe it. 15 years. Thank you Glina for your posts. I haven't see many people who have been on Remeron 15 years like we have. Although people who have been on it for months or 2 years still seem to have a terrible time getting off it. I wonder how different it is for us being on it a long, long time? I think we're going to see sometime in the future a whole new revelation about these meds and their damaging side effect and horribly addictive properties. I hope so. Best, Leahy

[Altostrata]

Yes, people who wish to go off these drugs are not able to get much help from doctors. That is why sites like this one exist.

[dalsaan]

Hi Leahy,

 

I've not been on for 15 years but I've been on for 10. You can come off, be courageous yet thoughtful and patient. All the info you need is here and we are happy to help you make good decisions for yourself

 

Dalsaan

[leahy]

It is unbelievable to me that it can take YEARS to come off mirtazapine! So... going from 60 mg in February to 30 mg in April is a lot of progress for me. Who knew? Not me. I look forward to a day without a headache. I keep reading and reading trying desperately to get another tip on how to beat this thing. That might not be helping the headache. I'm too exhausted to leave the house. I gave myself permission to stay in today. I look forward to the evenings when I can take my meds with the hope of a better day tomorrow.

[dalsaan]

Yes, in my experience it can take years.   I threw out the calendar.   My body tells me what it can cope with and my goal is to come off well, not quickly

 

I get tension headaches because I suffer muscle tension in my shoulders, neck and head.   Is this what happens for you?  I find magnesium helps with this and with sleep

 

D

[Altostrata]

Stay at one dosage for a while and let your nervous system settle down.

[leahy]

Hi D and Alto,

 

I'm not sure what the headaches are. I have been googling for info about that. Tension headaches would be better than my brain exploding. That's what it feels like so I worry. Will I have a seizure. Are the receptors rebuilding? Are the synapse misfiring? I don't know. Drop a dose the brain rebels. Yes, I intend to stay at 30 for a while to stabilize.

 

In retrospect I realize I have been not myself over the past 15 years and hostile towards my son. Also a cranky, tired impatient zombie. I just learned this last year from my son who now avoids me. I was shocked at the time and didn't believe what he was saying. It is only now that I reflect on this experience that I realize he's correct. But I didn't mean it. I haven't told my adult kids I am in withdrawal. I don't think they will want to hear about it or understand. My heart is broke in two, believe me. I thought antidepressants were harmless. We have been duped! By the big Pharma. And that is a sin.

 

For now, I live for postings here. Thanks for your tips and advice. It means so much to me I could cry. (side effect?) ~Leahy

[leahy]

I have been feeling sick for so long - severe headache, nausea and fatigue. I thought all along it was wd but I was thinking about what else has changed besides my tapering of remeron (mirtazapine) since all I can think about is how bad I feel.

 

I posted this under new topics symptoms today but I wanted to mention it here as well:

I realized at the same time my wd symptoms got worse and grew in intensity that I had also started a statin medication (March 26). I looked up the side effects and bingo - there it is. I'm guessing starting this medication at this time might not be helping my situation. Just wanted to throw this out there for opinions. I'm going to try coming off the statin for a while and see if it makes a difference. Maybe then I can stabilize and get some relief. It's the remeron that's causing the high triglycerides and high cholesterol in the first place. What a vicious cycle.

[Altostrata]

I think you may be onto something there, leahy.

 

All you need to do is stop taking the statins (reduce gradually over a couple of weeks) and see if the symptoms are reduced.

 

Statins are grossly overprescribed, too. Could be they're not appropriate for you at all.

[leahy]

Yes. I will reduce the statin. I hope this helps lessen the headaches, fatigue and nausea. Thank you.

[dalsaan]

I hope you find some relief in ditching the statin and well done for thinking through what is happening for you.

 

Dalsaan

[leahy]

Posted (to the wrong place) April 11, 2015

 

15 horrible years on Remeron and I want off this med so badly! I began to reduce remeron from 45 to 30 on February 14 and requested by my Psych/doctor. (I was taking 90 mg at one time - it's all a blur) After my March 13 appointment I was to told to hold at 30. Not knowing about wd I decided to stop completely for 2 days. Then because of sleep issues reinstated the 30. I also had a migraine that wouldn't quit. I felt so ill - nauseous and severe migraine for WEEKS nonstop. After 14 days I sought medical attention from my internist. She prescribed Fiorocet and that I see a nuerologist because she could find nothing wrong with me.

 

All this led me here searching for answers/help/any tip at all. So thank you for being here. I too am trying Glinda's method. I figure I always fell terrible anyway I might as well accomplish something while I am suffering. This month I went back to 30 for a while, then to 15 for 2 days. In the middle of the thied night I had to get up and take the second 15 to get back to sleep. so 15, 15, 30, 22.5, 22.5. I'm hoping this woks. Its the terrible awakenings that are the most difficult. I can't think straight, feel confused, randomly lost my train of thought mid sentence. For now, I live for your postings. You are all I have. Oh my, that sounded depressed. I am not. I'm just feeling sick and want to get well and get my mind back. God bless all of you.

[leahy]

Traveller, on 14 Apr 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

"Hello to all. My name is Traveller, and I am a mirtazapine addict. Was prescribed mirt after I reacted badly to Lexapro. Started at 7.5 mg for a week, then up to 15 mg. Worked great for sleep and depression, but left me feeling a bit numb. After complaining of the day-after sedating effects, I was bumped up to 30 mg after several weeks. Big mistake. At that point, my anxiety increased, and sleep became erratic. After several more weeks, I dropped back to 15 mg. Felt fine for a few days, then on the fourth day withdrawal kicked in with a vengeance. I've since gone back up to 30 mg, but my sleep has disappeared, and my anxiety is still high. I tried going back down to 26.75 mg shortly thereafter, but again, withdrawal kicked in after four days. Chest pain, difficulty concentrating, tinnitus, anxiety worse than I've ever had in my life. I'm trying to stabilize at 30 mg again before I taper, but I still can't sleep. If I take an Ambien, I'm lucky to get 2 hours at this point.

 

I have a demanding job and a family to support. Fortunately (for them) they've been out of town while I struggle with sleep and anxiety, but they're schedule to return this weekend. Moreover, my performance at work has been noticeably inadequate. How the heck will I ever get off mirt if I can't even get to 26 mg? My psychiatrist believes mirt has no withdrawal, so he's no help. Seeing a new doctor this afternoon, but I suspect he'll just tell me the same. Will I lose my career, my family, and possibly my life to this stupid little pill?"

 

I understand your feelings. I have been trying to withdraw from Remeron since February and have the same problems trying to reduce to 30. I too wonder if I can ever get to 22.5. I cannot imagine doing this and being able to perform at work. I waited till I retired and remeron took 15 years of my life. it sure feels complicated. Welcome to this forum. You will get much needed support here and excellent advice. I find days without sleep damn near impossible to get through. It's very difficult to hasten the withdrawal. Days without headache and nausea are a gift. Getting through remeron (mirtazapine) withdrawal is an arduous journey.

[leahy]

Posted 17 April 2015 - 08:11 AM

"I have experienced teeth grinding at times. As have others. It's called bruxism. If you search for that you will find thread discussing it. Some antidepressants have that as a side effect.

 

Have you had any scans to exclude other causes of the migraine?"

 

Hi D,

 

I did have an MRI and blood work done by my internist. All was well. I've had the migraines on and off for about a year. It was only after my recent March visit to my internist that I realized in retrospect that the headaches probably coincided with me reducing remeron. I did not put 2 and 2 together till now. I thought it was a matter of getting the med out of the system. Someone in your post explained it very well. We're healing the brain and the HTP system. I think it is from your thread that I copied and pasted into Word to save it. Here's an excerpt. It is what I used to think...

 

"ALSO, because you are likely to encounter many, many people who still believe these drugs work kind of like aspirin, or a glass of wine, and all you need to do is stop and get it out of your system.

 

Now you can explain to them that no, getting it out of your system is not the issue; the issue is, you need to regrow or at least remodel your brain. This is a long, slow, very poorly understood process, and it needs to be respected."

 

 

Good to know about bruxism. I will look that up. The headaches must be a combination of things here. Not sleeping is a big contributor. I thought of you last night as I woke up after 2 hours sleeping (.75 Klonopin, 30 mg Remeron before sleep) at 11:30 PM. By 2PM I took Lactium, then magnesium, then Body Calm Supreme (passion flower, cherry, l-Theanine and Benfotiamine) by The Road Back people. I finally caved in at 3 AM and took 1 mg xanax and finally got back to sleep for a few hours. Not good, I know. I have so many supplements I haven't bought Taurine yet. Sounds like it might be worth it.

 

It's going to be a long day today. Best, Leahy

[leahy]

Posted 14 April 2015 - 03:36 PM

I have been feeling sick for so long - severe headache, nausea and fatigue. I thought all along it was wd but I was thinking about what else has changed besides my tapering of remeron (mirtazapine) since all I can think about is how bad I feel.

 

I realized at the same time my wd symptoms got worse and grew in intensity that I had also started a statin medication (March 26). I looked up the side effects and bingo - there it is. I'm guessing starting this medication at this time might not be helping my situation. Just wanted to throw this out there for opinions. I'm going to try coming off the statin for a while and see if it makes a difference. Maybe then I can stabilize and get some relief. It's the remeron that's causing the high triglycerides and high cholesterol in the first place. What a vicious cycle.

[leahy]

Sorry about the multiple posts today but I realized I sjhhould be posting more in my introductions to keep a journal of things. I was inspired by Daltaan yesterday to try to do this. Thanks, D.

 

I am trying to remember that coming from 90 mg to 60 to 30 mg is a very big change so quickly. I am 65 years old and I worry about this process taking so long. I'd like to enjoy a few years with my own clear head back. I also wonder and worry about how the past 15 years has affected my kids. I can't think too much about now. I know that. But it is alarming to me that I had no idea of the impact of how I was being medicated. Was I raging at my son? We've had many fights - my sister in law says he has an "anger management problem." There's no doubt he has tremendous anger towards me. He barely speaks to me now and I am heart broken. He says "you've hated on me like a women who hates men - for YEARS." I disregarded that as ridiculous when I first read his email last fall. Now I am looking back and have to wonder what really happened. If he feels this way there has to be a reason. I absolutely ADORE - absolutely adore my kids. I'm afraid to ask at the moment. I feel too sick and weak. I need to deal with that when I have more strength. I don't completely understand it. I've looked under relationship forums for but haven't found anything enlightening on this topic. Can it be that I, the most loving mother, could have been this awful and not know it? Anyone got any tips for me in this area? I feel like an alcoholic who's getting sober and realizing the damage left in its wake. Do I need to take a look at the 12 step program?

[bubble]

* two introductory threads have been merge. Due to that there might be some inconsistencies in the thread.

 

Hello Leahy,

 

it can take time to figure out the site and I'm glad that you now understand how it functions. I have merged the two introductory therads you created because we all have one thread each. This makes it easier to follow your progress.

 

I understand how you are feeling. We all have our challanges and unfortunate life circumstances that the use of these drugs contributed in creating. For instance, I'm 38 and haven't been able to have children and now wonder if I will have enough time after I come off because as you say, it takes time. I'm sure you did the best you could under the circumstances. And I'm sure your children know it and appreciate it. The problem is we are all so bad at showing how we really feel about people. And talking openly is also hard. But as you say, it's best not to think too much about it until you feel strong enough to address it.

 

I went through your posts quickly and I noticed that you were doing what I did also: changing doses in response to symptoms. This is what actually contributed to so much of my unwellness over the years. Only when I got here did I realise the dangers of taking drugs on as needed basis. Keeping things stable is the most important thing in a successful taper.

 

I didn't quite understand your Xanax situation so I would appreciate if you clarify it a bit. From your signature it seems you stopped taking it altogether in March. If you have been on 3 mg of Xanax for years and you stopped taking it within months then a big deal of how you are feeling at the moment can be attributed to Xanax and not only Remeron. To give you an idea, my highest ever dose was 2 mg. It took me 14 months to come down from 2 mg to 1 mg...

 

There is a seperate benzo section here so we can look into more detail at your Xanax situation once you clarify it a bit.

 

Best,

 

Bubble

[leahy]

Hi Bubble,

 

Thank you for merging my introductory pages. I was confused about this but it makes more sense to me now.

 

Bubble said:

"The problem is we are all so bad at showing how we really feel about people. And talking openly is also hard. "

 

That is an amazing line. It is so true. so bad at showing people how we really feel. Why? Why is it so hard for us to talk openly? That is a HUGE problem for me.

 

You are correct about the xanax. Over the years I was taking 4 mg, perhaps 2 of those mg at night to sleep. When my pdoc gave up her practice I couldn't find one to take my case on. Too much xanax they said. You need rehab. That scared me, hadn't heard that before so it was a rude awakening. I consiously cut back on that starting in January, taking half of whatever dose I had previously taken. So by March I'd say i was taking 2 mg and trying to rely more on the remeron for sleep. The new pdoc switched me to Klonopin in on March 14 so I took no xanax but felt even more like a zombie. Scary. I know.

 

By April I switched back to xanax but only taking it at night - 2mg and had reduced 45 remeron to 30. (I use to shake during the day but have not been trembling so I thought I could reduce the xanax there.) I had a roller coaster ride with remeron 30 mg because I thought I could skip doses, etc. The pdoc had also prescribed lamictal but I only took that 2 nights because i left it somewhere. Thank God for that. I did join benzo buddies. And finally joined here. So yes. It is very difficult to sort out. This new pdoc - she's actually a Physician's assisstant seems to prefer klonopin because it's long lasting. I told her yesterday .5 did nothing for my sleep and 1 mg made me into a zombie all day. She suggested I try .75 which I did last night. It was a very bad night. I had a massage yesterday in hopes of headache relief. I wonder if that kicked up some stimulating effect.

 

I'm aware that I might be rambling or not making sense because I feel so sick. Sorry about that. I'm trying and I really do value your help so much. Thank you so much.

[leahy]

So Bubble, by looking at your signature I see that maybe I need to take a small doses of xanax consistently through the day. In March the change was from 45 to 30 remeron and a switch to klonopin. That's when I started to get really sick. Reducing from 60 to 45 of remeron the month before really had no problems except the anxiety of it.

[leahy]

Bubble,

"For instance, I'm 38 and haven't been able to have children and now wonder if I will have enough time after I come off because as you say, it takes time. I'm sure you did the best you could under the circumstances. "

 

I'm sorry. In my haze, I forgot to reply to you about this. I know lots of people, friends of mine, who had their first child in their 40's. I paid attention to this because I had been programmed to believe children had to be conceived by 30 yrs. old which I did. (very old fashioned idea) But many of my friends started their careers (teaching) right out of college and postponed child bearing. I understand your concern but I want to encourage you. I think this will all work out for you. :-)

[leahy]

Solving the headache/nausea problem...

 

I had an MRI and blood work done by my internist on March 12. All was well. I've had the migraines on and off for about a year. It was only after my recent March visit to my internist that I realized in retrospect that the headaches probably coincided with me reducing remeron. I did not put 2 and 2 together till now. I thought it was a matter of getting the med out of the system. The same is true, though of the xanax which I chose to forget about.

 

I can't believe that I did not even consider that my headaches could be a result of xanax withdrawal as Bubble pointed out to me today. It seems like I keep running around in circles here. I am going to reinstate a low dose of .25 mg xanax every 5 hours and see if that helps. I have been totally blaming the remeron but this is another piece. Perhaps my dosage has been too sporadic for me to stabilize. I'm not so sure about switching to klonopin like my PA suggested... Whatever the case, it sure is NOT working for me.

 

Possible that I have bruxism which would contribute to the headache. I will look that up. The headaches must be a combination of things here. Not sleeping is a big contributor. Last night as I woke up after 2 hours sleeping. I took .75 Klonopin, 30 mg Remeron before going to sleep at 11:30 PM. I woke up suddenly at 12:30 AM like it was time to get up. By 2PM and still not sleeping, I took Lactium, then magnesium, then "Body Calm Supreme" (passion flower, cherry, l-Theanine and Benfotiamine) by The Road Back people. I caved in at 3 AM and took 1 mg xanax and finally got back to sleep for a few hours. Not good, I know. I have so many supplements it's overwhelming. I haven't bought Taurine yet. Sounds like it might be worth trying it.

[Altostrata]

Bruxism can be an adverse effect of psychiatric drugs or a withdrawal symptom. Protecting your teeth with a night guard can help.

[leahy]

thank you alto. it's good to know.

[leahy]

Bubble was onto something helpful to me. She noticed I didn't do a slow wd from xanax. Starting yesterday, I have been taking .25 mg every four hours keeping .5 by my bed for nightime wide awakenings. So far so good. I only have a slight headache today and I am not nauseous at all. Seems like I might have been hyper-focused on the remeron wd, paying no attention to the xanax wd. I thought I was over that.

 

I added Taurine and Mag Citrate to my arsenal today. Hopefully that will help with sleep and reduce headaches.This is my 2nd day of reinstating - evening out xanax. I even left my house today which is miraculous for me.

[dalsaan]

That's great news Leahy. A bit of Bubble magic. Let us know how you get on with the mag(/taurine.