Freeby60: this month is the 24th anniversary of getting on ADs - 24 years!

[Freeby60]

Hey and Hi and Welcome.  I can soooo relate.

 

My stuff started well before giving birth.  I have a 27 or 28 year old history of AD usage and am now free of them!!!!  And yeah.  However, my postpartum and breastfeeding experience was wonderful........moodwise(was also still medicated).  I look at that 6 weeks off of work and all as one of my best and happiest times......ever.  Just reminiscing.  Man......I have one foot in the past and one foot in the now.......

 

And now I have you on file somewhat as well and hopefully can offer something helpful soon...........

Thanks! I am happy to know you are here! I have been on Lex for several years- and rather apprehensive about stopping because of WD symptoms. I appreciate your offer for help. I will def let you know when I begin. Getting of Wellbutrin first

[Freeby60]

Done with the PPIs!!! I am quite happy to be off these meds I tapered off, first by 10% for two weeks with no rebound symptoms. Then, I went to a 25% reduction of the original dose for 2 weeks. Then, a 75% reduction of the original dose for a week or so. That was it. I didn't have immediate rebound and was symptom free for 4-5 days, then noticed a mild sense of ind indigestion in stomach/esaphogus area. Rather than reinstate, I did some research on healing the gut. I am now 2 days into eating no carbs and adding fermented foods and beef broth, etc., a la GAPS diet. Feeling remarkably well on this. I did not remove dairy, but eating only fermented (yogurt/kefir). I didn't want to eliminate dairy, because I want to know how no carbs will effect gut. So far so good. If I can continue dairy, I will be happy! Love my yogurt!

I have also reduced my Wellbutrin by half. I have gotten off Wellbutrin with no problems in the past, so I took a shot at it. Knowing that if I needed to reinstate, I would need to do so earlier than later. So much for patience! Meanwhile, I WILL follow the 10% ad infinitum when I taper the Lexepro. THAT, I will not experiment on

Thank you all, for being here on this site and sharing experiences and knowledge! peace & love, Freeby60

  

Keep us posted on the no carbs

 

After one week of no carbs (gee, I wonder why it feels longer than that!), relief has been up and neutral. In other words, I either felt the mild reflux symptoms or none. The good news is it hasn't gotten worse. The tapering certainly helped big time, since when I didn't taper I would have almost immediate symptoms to the point of going back on the PPIs for relief of painful symptoms. I will keep you posted on next weeks progress.

[Freeby60]

Just saw my physician for my annual check up. We had a lengthy discussion (love my doctor) about the psych meds, chronic constipation, and acid reflux. He recommended magnesium twice daily for the constipation (it is quite severe), and recommend we consider doing some testing on my bacterial levels in the gut/intestines to see if these are out of whack, which can cause acid reflux, once my constipation is in check. He was very concerned about constipation because I am not excreting estrogen then, which isn't good if there is a history of breast cancer (mother). I had no idea!

 

He was, admittedly, not that familiar with all that goes with tapering psych meds, but was supportive of my desire to get off, knew my mouth and tongue movements were akathasia and was very concerned about it. he also suggest in considering 5HTP if I needed additional support. I told him I was hesitant to add anything to the mix and he was good with that! I was fist-pumping when I left his office- I felt like I had won the lottery!

 

He his younger than I am, and he was just starting out when I became his patient. Three years ago he shared with me that over the years he has stopped prescribing based on pharmaceutical companies recommendations, and is now very careful to work healing underlying dysfunction rather than going to meds first, so I feel very fortunate to have him as my physician.

[tgirl]

Hello Free,

I would stay away from the 5htp. There is a thread somewhere here. Try and find it.

 

Glad to hear you have a great doctor! Those are rare!

 

Hope you are well,

Tgirl

[Freeby60]

Hello Free,

I would stay away from the 5htp. There is a thread somewhere here. Try and find it.

Glad to hear you have a great doctor! Those are rare!

Hope you are well,

Tgirl

Thanks, Tgirl! I do remember reading something on the site about it, in particular, just being careful about introducing an unknown into the mix. I tried to find it again, but couldn't. I will keep searching.

[Freeby60]

About to reduce from 100mg to ??? Not sure if I need to do 10% or if I can use my past experience of being able to get off easily and maybe reduce by a little more. Feeling ok going from 200 to 100. A little addle-brained and emotional, but otherwise fine. Side effects like feeling anxious and squirley at bedtime and tongue thrashing greatly reduced. Really pleased about that!

[ladybug99]

Hey Free! Thanks for the support yesterday! Helped a lot!

 

Hummm...not sure about you doing more than 10% cut. I guess if your symptoms have lessened with your cuts then why not try a higher cut...but not by too much! Don't want to rattle the CNS!

 

Big hug

 

LB,

[brassmonkey]

Hi Freeby60-- It's not a good idea to rush things, even if the last big drop seems to have gone well.  These drugs have a bad habit of waiting until you think you're in the clear and then wham they get you when you're not looking.  It could take several months for that big drop to show itself.  I know the 10% rule sounds poky slow, but there are good reasons for it.

[dreamspirit]

Oh yes, they definitely can show up months down the road.. it happened to me.. I started a taper Jan 2014 and did 1mg drops every 4-6 weeks and didn't get any withdrawl symptoms until 14 weeks ago when I crashed. I had to reinstate unfortunately..but I should have done longer holds.. at the time I was excited I wasn't getting withdrawl symptoms so I would drop mainly every 4 weeks.. I will never do that again..

 

The longer you hold the better... I learned my lesson. .

[Freeby60]

Hi Freeby60-- It's not a good idea to rush things, even if the last big drop seems to have gone well.  These drugs have a bad habit of waiting until you think you're in the clear and then wham they get you when you're not looking.  It could take several months for that big drop to show itself.  I know the 10% rule sounds poky slow, but there are good reasons for it.

 

 

Oh it really does seem miserably slow! Lol! And of course I think "it won't happen to me!", but fools rush in where wise men fear to tread. So, I shall be wise and go slow! Thanks, brassmonkey!

Edited May 5, 2016 by JanCarol
fix html, & quote

[Freeby60]

Oh yes, they definitely can show up months down the road.. it happened to me.. I started a taper Jan 2014 and did 1mg drops every 4-6 weeks and didn't get any withdrawl symptoms until 14 weeks ago when I crashed. I had to reinstate unfortunately..but I should have done longer holds.. at the time I was excited I wasn't getting withdrawl symptoms so I would drop mainly every 4 weeks.. I will never do that again..

The longer you hold the better... I learned my lesson. .

Thank you, Dreamspirit! I know it sounds silly, but it's hard to take advice when it hasn't happened to you. Really, I don't know why I feel in such a hurry!!

[Freeby60]

Hey Free! Thanks for the support yesterday! Helped a lot!

Hummm...not sure about you doing more than 10% cut. I guess if your symptoms have lessened with your cuts then why not try a higher cut...but not by too much! Don't want to rattle the CNS!

Big hug

LB,

Glad it helped, because when the hit shits the fan here, I'm gonna cash in my good karma with you! I think I'm going to take everyone's good advice and go slow, maybe hold for a little while longer, to make sure I don't crash from this drop before I do the next one.

 

Cheers!

[ladybug99]

Sooooo glad you decided to go slower. Crashing ain't fun! Slow and steady wins the race...

[Freeby60]

Hello! As of 11/3 happily off of the Wellbutrin. 2 weeks later, after letting my ns relax a little I did a 50% cut on my lexapro. And, needless to say, it was too big a cut. I see heads shaking back and forth- and here all those whys!! "Why did you do that!"

 

Getting off the WB gave me a false sense of safety. That's all I can say. But, it was too much of a cut. Anxiety every morning, and off and on throughout the day. Constant running of the brain-mouth.

I had a few migraines never had before and some wild no sleep squirrly nights and some electrical zaps on my back, so reinstated by going up 25% (remember I dropped by 50%). Didn't have enough capsules to put the liquid in so ended up back down to 50% and have been fine, but I reinstated for 2 days only because I ran out of capsules to put the liquid in (made my own suspension and put in capsule an swallowed before melted to avoid disgusting taste). Went back to 10mg (50% cut) and returned to previous anxiety, etc within a couple days. This was about 12/5. By mid-December I decided I couldn't stand it and reinstated to 20 mgs.

 

So, far I have an occasional great day, but mostly feel checked-out and depressed. Feeling like I can't handle anything but the minimum requirements of things most of the time. But, I do have a window here and there. The down side is typical neuroemotional upheaval. My question is, should I hold where I am longer and see if it gets better or should I take a smaller cut than the 50%.

[apace41]

Freeby, 

 

Congratulations on the progress you have made so far!  You've done very well getting off two meds and starting to move on the Lex.

 

By your own admission you went too fast.  Going up and down is only going to sensitize your nervous system and make things harder as you get lower.  My vote would be to go back to the 20mg and have a nice hold of at least several weeks to a month to see how you do and let your nervous system settle down.

 

Check in at various points and let us know how it's going, but you just got off the Wellbutrin in November so there has been a lot going on for your body and brain to deal with.

 

Let it sit for a while before you move on.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Freeby60]

Thank you, Andy!

 

I appreciate your support and suggestion. My first thought was to stick it out awhile longer, but since it has been a good month or so already, I am concerned that I have become sensitized already, and the 20 mgs is too much. Could that be?

[Freeby60]

Those are very good questions to ask your doctor.

 

Yes, it is possible the esomeprazole is delaying the metabolization of the Lexapro. But as you are tapering the esomeprazole, the effect on Lexapro will also be gradual.

 

Don't change the dosages of both drugs at the same time. If you start to feel Lexapro withdrawal, you might want to hold on reducing the esomeprazole for a little while to keep the entire system steady.

Alto,

 

My psych doc is convinced I am in need of lifetime meds. He doesn't believe any of my anxiety after reduction is related to withdrawal. While I concede I have had issues with anxiety prior to ever taking meds, I don't believe that the current anxiety is anything but withdrawal. That being said, as I explained below, I am concerned that since I went too high on a cut and reinstated over a month ago that I may have reinstated too high. Could u read my recent post from yesterday and give me your opinion? Should I continue to hold at 20mgs or does it seem like I have become sensitive to the 20 mgs. Thank you!!

[Freeby60]

 

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Sent 03 February 2016 - 10:47 AM

Hello Altostrata! I need your input, if you have a moment, because it seems to me that I am sensitized to the Lexepro that I have been taking for many years (10 or more, I think?) As of 11/3 happily off of the Wellbutrin. 2 weeks later, after letting my ns relax a little I did a 50% cut on my lexapro. And, needless to say, it was too big a cut. I had such an easy time getting off the WB that I had a false sense of safety. But, it was too much of a cut. Anxiety every morning, and off and on throughout the day. I had a few migraines never had before and some wild no sleep squirrly nights and some electrical zaps on my back, so reinstated by going up 25% (remember I dropped by 50%). Didn't have enough capsules to put the liquid in so ended up back down to 50% and had been fine, (I reinstated for 2 days only because I ran out of capsules to put the liquid in (made my own suspension and put in capsule an swallowed before melted to avoid disgusting taste)). With this 50% cut I returned to previous anxiety, etc within a couple days. This was about 12/5. By mid-December I decided I couldn't stand it and reinstated to 20 mgs, which is my original dose.

So it is about 6 or more weeks, and so far I have an occasional great day, but mostly feel checked-out and depressed. I also have periods of exhausted sleep and then hyper-awake through the night. Feeling like I can't handle anything but the minimum requirements of things most of the time, because I experience anxiety and mild panic daily. But, I do have a window here and there. I am experiencing typical neuroemotional upheaval, and occasional diarrhea. It isn't usual for me to respond this way to reinstatement (I did a similar taper about 4 years ago, and within a month was stable after reinstating. I saw my pdoc a month ago and told him about the anxiety etc, and he warned my that "it is possible that it won't work this time". I am to see my pdoc in a few days, and I am worried that he will suggest I increase or switch to something else, none of which I wish to do, as I'm fearful it will make my cns worse, not better. Do you think it might make sense to take a small cut (5% or 10%) at this point? I appreciate your considering all this. Thank you!

[Fresh]

Hi Freeby ,   I wouldn't recommend making a cut yet.

 

" As of 11/3 happily off of the Wellbutrin. 2 weeks later, after letting my ns relax a little I did a 50% cut on my lexapro. And, needless to say, it was too big a cut"

 

After this recent hiccup , it will most likely take another couple of months to get as stable as you were last November.

And you want to be as stable as you can before tapering in order to avoid debilitating w/d symptoms.

 

You might want to consider the collective wisdom here that suggests decreasing by a maximum of 10%

at a time.

 

 

Best wishes ,  Fresh

[Freeby60]

Thank you Fresh. I appreciate your help. Maybe I'll feel better in the Spring ????

[apace41]

Freeby60,

 

Fresh gives you good advice.  I know you felt like 2 weeks was a long time to "rest" your CNS, but that's nothing in nervous system time!  Making a big cut like you did and then bouncing up and down a couple of times shortly thereafter has probably got your brain wondering what is going on?  I think a nice hold of several months is the right advice.  

 

In the meantime, are you doing other things to support your CNS, such as magnesium and fish oil of some kind.  Take it really slow for a while and just baby yourself.  If you take your time you will find yourself back and ready to taper in the not too distant future.

 

Wellbutrin is "different" in the way it works since it is generally a noradrenaline/dopamine actor as opposed to serotonin.  It causes different side effects and getting off it is usually different than for SSRIs so you can't take anything away from getting off it easy. That's why a lot of docs add it on to an SSRI (as I gather they did for you).

 

Nevertheless, getting off it is good progress and you should just take it slow for a little while.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Freeby60]

I really appreciate the advice that I have received. I guess, since it has been close to 2 months since I reinstated the Lexepro, I am concerned that I am sensitized to it. I have gotten off lexapro (fast taper) and reinstated after a sudden onset of severe anxiety about 4-5 months off) around 4 years ago, and stabilized quite quickly. In fact, my tendency is toward quick and easy stabilization, so I am a bit concerned about that. I don't know what sensitization entails and I see my pdoc next week. He is adamant that I will be on the meds for life, but warned me that the lexapro may not work anymore. I will stand firm that I wish to make no changes, but it would help to have some input on the possibility of sensitisation, as I think that is what he is referring to. What are your thoughts on that? I feel like it will help to have a little info on it when I see him. I appreciate everyone's help!

[AliG]

Freeby.    There is no reason to believe your doctor, when he says you will be on " meds" for life.   What symptoms are you having, now ?  What makes you think , you are sensitized ?  I would hold , as has been mentioned.

[apace41]

Hi, Freeby,

 

My thoughts below:

 

I guess, since it has been close to 2 months since I reinstated the Lexepro, I am concerned that I am sensitized to it. I have gotten off lexapro (fast taper) and reinstated after a sudden onset of severe anxiety about 4-5 months off) around 4 years ago, and stabilized quite quickly. In fact, my tendency is toward quick and easy stabilization, so I am a bit concerned about that.

 

When you say your "tendency is toward quick and easy stabilization" what are you basing that on?  The one time you went off and back on in the past or were there other times?  I ask because each time you get off and back on one of these meds it can be harder the next time.  Having said that, assuming that was the only time you went off and back on, this time what led up to reinstatement was a WHOLE LOT DIFFERENT!  If you reread what you wrote you (i) were just off the Wellbutrin, (ii) cut by 50%, (iii) went back up by 25%, (iv) went back down by 25% again, and (v) then reinstated.  2 months is not a long time to stabilize in the aftermath of that amount of jumping around.

 

 

 I don't know what sensitization entails and I see my pdoc next week.

 

It's hard to determine sensitization which is the phenomenon that occurs in psych meds (and other neurologics) where you sometimes have no reaction or even a paradoxical reaction to the same medicine that used to work for you.  Typically, that happens while you are on it and you develop essentially a tolerance or, in the SSRI lexicon, "poop-out". Going back on is a little different and while it can occur, it's not something you can really tell right away.  Because  your CNS was probably sensitive at the time you updosed to the full 20, it might well take longer for it to start working again assuming it will.  Had you asked at the time, our advice would likely not have been to fully reinstate but to increase to something greater than 10 and less than 20, but that's water under the bridge.  You see the advice given here when people ask about reinstating and the suggestion is to find the lowest amount that will work because the full dose might be too high.  But that's not to say you should cut at this point.  Just give it some time and keep us posted as to how you are doing.

 

He is adamant that I will be on the meds for life, but warned me that the lexapro may not work anymore.

 

I agree with AliG that his notion that you will "be on meds for life" is both wrong from a medical perspective and, perhaps more importantly, a horribly depressing message to send to a patient who is trying to get off brain-altering meds.  My first reaction is to say you should find a new p-doc, but that is a little flip so I won't go there (unless you want to  ).  In this context it is too early to tell, in my view, if there has been "poop-out" and you should tell him that you want to stick with the Lex for a while to see if you can stabilize on that because you have been on it in the past.  The problem is that if he moves you to another SSRI when you look to discontinue that (assuming you stabilize on that) if you start to have symptoms you won't know whether they are from the new SSRI or the Lex.

 

We have way too many members on the site that are in that very situation.  So, long story short, let's try to get you to stabilize on the Lex for a while and, only as a last resort, try another drug to bridge.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Freeby60]

Freeby.    There is no reason to believe your doctor, when he says you will be on " meds" for life.   What symptoms are you having, now ?  What makes you think , you are sensitized ?  I would hold , as has been mentioned.

I am experiencing a lot of anxiety mostly, but also feeling a bit disassociated. Periods of exhaustion and hyper-wakefulness at bedtime. Some waves of tingling warmth and head aches. My main feeling that I might be sensitized is because the symptoms increased, rather than decreased, when I reinstated back to my original dose of 20mg. But, I gather that my expectation that my symptoms would be relieved by full reinstatement was erroneous.

[Freeby60]

Hello Andy,

 

I wish I knew how to quote just pieces of your post to respond to, but haven't figured that out yet! I have been on antidepressants for 24 years, so yes, I have been off them and then unable to sustain getting off, gotten back on them. Always, the taper was a quick and large cut over a month or two, and symptoms would come back. Or, rather, withdrawal symptoms would persist, and my doctor would suggest I go back on, and I was ready for some relief and would oblige. It has been every 5 years or so that I would try again. I was aware of the usual recommendation to reinstate only in increments until finding a level that gave relief. Honestly, I was too overwhelmed to go out to the store to get the gel capsules I would need to put the suspension that I have been making. I was unable back them to do anything other than go to work and come home again and crash. I will say that when I look back at that time, I have improved. The very fact that I am sitting in my living room responding to these posts, is testament to that. I don't mind you suggesting I try another pdoc. I have thought of that, surely. Sometimes, I feel like I am contributing to his future retirement plans! I'm not convinced that I wouldn't find more of the same if I went looking for another doc.

 

Anyway, I will take the advice and hold for a good while. I look forward to Spring here in New England. Thank you, again.

[Freeby60]

Hello, thought I've give an update!

 

I have recently reinstated lexapro after a large cut that was too much to handle back to my "therapeutic" dose of 20mgs. After the cut, and subsequent reinstatement, I suffered every single day with anxiety, along with other wd symptoms. 3 months of reinstatement gave me 2 single windows of relief from anxiety. I was quite miserable, sure that I was going to be in this state until I could cope no more. And I was feeling very close to not being able to. I was having trouble getting out of bed for work, and when I did, I would be crying and feeling very sorry for myself.

 

I happened on the thread about Claire Weekes and read her Hope and Hope for your Nerves. It is quite archaic and repetitive, but her message is hopeful, and her suggestions to avoid compounding your anxiety with fear of anxiety, accepting, even embracing it was perfect advice for my then state of mind! I have no idea if it helped usher in this last few days of calm, but weekend before last I had a 2 lovely days of feeling myself ( with a little morning anxiety). And today is day three of a lovely window of no anxiety in a row. People here keep telling me it will get better. 3 months into reinstatement and I see that it is!

 

I have also been enjoying a little self-reflection, which I feel able to do now that I am not busy fighting my current state of mind. As mentioned in my first post here, I suffered horrific anxiety after the birth of my first son. I was quite sick from it and compounded that with the hysterical belief that I wasn't going to be able to care for my little one properly because of it. That was when I was put on antidepressants. But, that was not the first time I suffered anxiety or retreated from life because of the overwhelming fear I had of it that my mother, who suffers from her own mental illness with comorbid anxiety, nurtured in me.

 

It seems an important turning point to be able to say, I know I will experience anxiety again, but I will survive it. And I don't want to use mind-altering medication to keep it at bay. Last time I saw my pdoc, I tried to explain to him why I don't want to stay on these meds for the rest of my life, but he doesn't understand, or chooses not to. What I've come to realize is, he doesn't have to understand why, but he does have to support me. I see him tomorrow, and I can't tell you wonderful it feels to know that I can go in there and stand my ground, whether he agrees or not. The question is, will he help me, by prescribing what I need when I am ready to start tapering? We'll see. If he won't, I will try to find someone who will.

 

I plan on holding my dose until the long days of summer, then starting a very conservative tapering program!

[apace41]

Great news, Freeby60!

 

Make sure you "capture" this period so that if you have down days later on you can remind yourself it gets better.

 

Easy to say but so hard to do (I know from experience).

 

Best,

 

Andy

[brassmonkey]

Hi Freeby-- it's so wonderful to hear that the reinstatement is kicking in. Also the attitude change about the anxiety will be so liberating. Clair Weekes' teachings can be uses well beyond anxiety too it has many applications.

 

Don't go into the doctor trying to pick a fight.  If you can at least keep him on your side for a while because it's easier than trying to find another doctor to write the prescriptions.  Just say'n.

[Freeby60]

Thanks, Brassmonkey- good point. He and I go way back, for better or worse, but best not to antagonize!

[Freeby60]

Great news, Freeby60!

 

Make sure you "capture" this period so that if you have down days later on you can remind yourself it gets better.

 

Easy to say but so hard to do (I know from experience).

 

Best,

 

Andy

[apace41]

Thanks, Brassmonkey- good point. He and I go way back, for better or worse, but best not to antagonize!

 

I agree to a point. If he fights you on this then you need to be prepared to move forward with someone else.  Don't antagonize, but be prepared. 

 

It's important that you are not made to feel badly about your decisions.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Freeby60]

Thanks, Andy! I will be sure to keep it in mind. Certainly aware that windows are just that. An opportunity to see clearly in an often muddled view. Looking forward to more, but also remaining realistic that there will be more challenging as the days go on.

[Freeby60]

Thank you. It's very kind of you to stress that.

 

"It's important that you are not made to feel badly about your decisions."

[Wingbatty]

Hi Freeby - I just logged in & saw your post to me from a few weeks ago. Are you still holding steady on your dose & feeling good?

 

I had to delete & simplify my signature because it was such a mess. Over & over I kept getting anxious to just be done with the medication... going off too fast despite knowing better... having to reinstate. I would be much further along my journey if I had been patient in the beginning. Oh, and had known about the hormones, lol. But anyway.

 

You can't be held back by thoughts of how long you were on the meds. "What you did at the time was the best you could do then". That was the best you could do 24 years ago.... 16 years ago... etc. Today is something different.

 

Now I've been off Lexapro a few months and the anxiety is a little overwhelming. I'm still struggling to recognize and understand my own emotions and respond to them properly. Even after the meds are gone it is a long journey.

[Freeby60]

Hi Freeby - I just logged in & saw your post to me from a few weeks ago. Are you still holding steady on your dose & feeling good?

 

I had to delete & simplify my signature because it was such a mess. Over & over I kept getting anxious to just be done with the medication... going off too fast despite knowing better... having to reinstate. I would be much further along my journey if I had been patient in the beginning. Oh, and had known about the hormones, lol. But anyway.

 

You can't be held back by thoughts of how long you were on the meds. "What you did at the time was the best you could do then". That was the best you could do 24 years ago.... 16 years ago... etc. Today is something different.

 

Now I've been off Lexapro a few months and the anxiety is a little overwhelming. I'm still struggling to recognize and understand my own emotions and respond to them properly. Even after the meds are gone it is a long journey.