Mickeymouse: Quick intro

[Mickeymouse]

Hello all,

 

Since ive been reading these forums ive come to the conclusion that my psychiatrists dont know jack about pills!! So a forum like this seems like my only option at the moment to really get reliable information, and im grateful that this platform exists.

 

Ive been on mirtazapine 45mg for 1 year, and 15mg a year after that. And recently i wanted to quit, but that turned out to be freaking gnarly so i come here with questions that i will post in the tapering forum. 

 

Ive been reading up about psychiatric pills lately, and that combined with how my doc talks about tapering ( he recommended going from 15mg to 0mg in 2 weeks ) resulted in me just completely losing faith in pills and the so called professionals. ( 95% of them anyway )

 

Insomnia is the worst. The depressed feelings i feel i can handle a little bit, they are just really annoying but at the same time it makes me not care about anything when im depressed, including the fact that im actually depressed, if that makes sense. Ofcourse its crappy either way.

 

Anyways, thats all for now, best of luck to all the fellow pill victims

 

PS Ive read that the signature is important, do you put dates and stuff in there? Im not seeing any signatures from others?

[Mickeymouse]

Hey!

 

Ive been using mirtazapine for 2 years, first year 45mg second year 15mg. I have recently quit mirtazapine 15 mg in 2 weeks time. One week 15mg -> one week 7.5 mg -> one week 0mg and then nothing. 

Now im 3 weeks at 0mg and i gotta say most of my withdrawal symptoms are not that bad. The insomnia however is brutal, yet not as bas as im reading form some other people.

 

Quick sumup;

First week;   Itchy all over the place, headaches, nausea, insomnia ( 4 hours sleep a night ) 

Second week:  itchy , nausea, headache, insomnia ( 5 hours sleep a night )

Third week:    itchiness is 60% less, nausea 100% less, headaches 50% less, and i sleep around 5-6 hours a night with 2 times waking up.

 

Now ive read that this was not a good idea, and if i had to do it again i would taper down the way youre supposed to.

5-6 hours a night sounds pretty good compared to others that ive seen, but i need about 9 and im just really tired everyday.

 

Now my question is this.

Does anyone know if its actually possible to be withdrawal free eventually after using this bad fast method of tapering eventually? Or will i just make the withdrawal longer this way? 

 

Ive also read that some people arent able to reinstate after doing such a quick withdrawal for a couple of weeks because they shocked their system so hard. So it seems hard to imagine that those people will never be withdrawal free if they cant reinstate and taper down slow.

 

Some things that prevent me from reinstating:

• Before quitting the mirtazapine i was not sleeping well either, although better than now. ( 7,5 hours ) That was one of the reasons i quit mirtazapine (  i was using xanax 3 times a week wich ive also quit )
• Ive read that mirtazapine can cause joint pain, and the wrist pain ive had for 2 years has been better since quitting mirtazapine, although im also having physical therapy for that

So its hard to pinpoint what is what, wich is driving me nuts.

 

Anyways thanks for reading and sorry for the crappy english i did my best

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mickeymouse]

Im sorry i want to adjust my question;

 

Does anyone here have any info that quitting really fast will cause permanent damage or wil it just be more withdrawal symptoms? And might the symptoms take longer to dissapear if at all? In comparison to a taper?

 

At this moment id rather have mediocre insomnia for 6 months than taper for 2 years. I want to tough it out. I do care however if anything is going to be permanent!

 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Mickey.

 

It sounds like you had fairly severe withdrawal symptoms when you first went off mirtazapine.

 

Rebound insomnia is a common withdrawal symptom from mirtazapine. However, if you went off Xanax at the same time, it could be withdrawal insomnia from Xanax.

 

When did you quit Xanax relative to when you stopped mirtazapine?

 

Abrupt withdrawal may lead to symptoms that last for a long time, but they tend not to be permanent. Some people find the symptoms go away in a few months, others take much longer; it's impossible to predict when you will recover. If you find your withdrawal symptoms tolerable, you may wish to wait to see if they resolve. If they get worse or become intolerable, you may consider reinstating a tiny amount of mirtazapine.

 

Here are some ideas about reducing symptoms and improving sleep Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

 

Many people find these supplements aid in recovery from withdrawal syndrome:

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

[ChessieCat]

Hi Mickeymouse and welcome to SA,

 

Q:  When did you stop the Xanax?

 

If you have stopped both drug at the same time you may need to reinstate both.  I am not able to help with the Xanax (benzo) but I can alert the other mods if needed.

 

Thank you for completing your drug signature.  It would be helpful if you would alter it so that it is in the following format.  Because we are making suggestions which can affect your health and wellbeing we need to have all the information about your drugs, doses and the dates.

 

 A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

SA's recommendation is to taper by no more than 10% of the previous dose followed by about a 4 week hold to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.

 

I will to tell you of my own experience because it might help you to understand what these drugs do to the brain.

 

I reduced my Pristiq 100mg to 50mg and had very bad cog fog for 3 weeks.  At the end of the 3 weeks I was unable to type.  Because I am a professional typist of 40+ years I new something was very wrong.  Fortunately I had joined SA a few days before this happened and they had suggested that I increase my dose.  I did this and after about 4 hours I was able to type again.  I have since been tapering with only mild withdrawal symptoms and am now down to 19mg.

 

I will give you some links to check out.  Please read Post #1 of the reinstatement topic.

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

These helped me to understand SA's recommendations:

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

I will add drug tags which will appear under the topic title.  Clicking on them will find other members with the same tag.  This is your own Introduction topic where you can ask questions and journal your progress.

[Mickeymouse]

Altostrata:

That's what i was thinking, i started 1mg xanax XR around the time i started mirtazapine. However i took it about 2 times a week, maybe sometimes 4. Its the xtended release version so its supposed to be less habit forming, and the fact that i didnt take it everyday makes it less likely. Although i wouldnt be surprised if that also contributes to my insomnia right now. 

I quit the xanax the same time i started tapering the mirtazapine 5 weeks ago. However i took it 2 times the last week because of the sleep deprivation.

 

Im already taking magnesium and omega 3 , i think the magnesium really helps!

 

Its nice to know that there isnt any permanent damage!!, so worst case scenario im gonna have withdrawal for a long time

 

Chessiecat

I kind of agree that maybe i need to reinstate the xanax. However its pretty hard with the XR version, because they work for 12+ hours, and cant be broken or crushed. ( the lowest dose would be 0,5mg XR and that would be the same as taking 0,15mg normal xanax every 3 hours.

 

Just to be sure im gonna go grab a couple of 0,5mg XR ones. Ive quit xanax before and it wasnt that hard for me. Its the mirtazapine thats the first drug i have problems with

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

My gut feeling is that mirtazapine is torubling me the most with increased stress, itchiness, and all that i think i want to reinstate mirtazapine

as for the mirtazapine, i think i figured out how to taper and mix and stuff, 

 

Ive updated my signature, so my taper went like this: 

august 11: 15mg

august 18: 7,5mg

august 25: 3,75mg

september 1: 0mg.

 

Questions...  So im not sure if reinstating to the last dose applies with this fast taper, anyone got ideas what i should reinstate to?

And will reinstating even work after 3 weeks? Basically if i choose not to reinstate now, and wait for 2 months i might lose the chance to reinstate right?

 

 

Thanks for the replies!

 

[ChessieCat]

You could try 0.25mg or 0.5mg.  Because you quit both drugs we don't know how much destabilisation has occurred and taking even 1mg may cause problems.  Remember it is better to start low and if after about a week there has be no improvement you could then increase again by a tiny amount.

 

Keep Notes on Paper

Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

[Mickeymouse]

Oh thats quite a bit lower than i expected, good thing i asked ! I'm gonna do that

 

[ChessieCat]

It takes 4 days for the drug to get to a steady state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  Keeping notes on paper will help you to see improvement that you not feel.

 

You might end up on a bit higher dose but it is best to test a small amount first.  If you have a bad reaction you can stop it straight away.

 

It's important to try and stay as calm as possible.  We strongly recommend Non-drug techniques to help cope with symptoms.

[Altostrata]

I have a slightly different take. If you're going to reinstate something, I would try a bit of mirtazapine, such as 2.5mg-5mg before going on the benzo, which can be addictive.

 

If by any chance you've gotten free of the benzo, I'd avoid it. The extended-release type is even worse, because long-term effect on your nervous system is what causes dependency.

[Mickeymouse]

I think im gonna try 2.5 mg to reinstate

 

So in case the reinstate doesnt work after a week, and upping the dose for another week doesnt work also, you just discontinue the drug and deal with withdrawal?

[ChessieCat]

Thanks for clarifying Alto.  I did mean mirtazpine but forgot to state it.

 

MM, first things first.  Reinstate and keep notes.  Reinstating at the higher dose which Alto has suggested, it would be better to give it 2 weeks at 2.5mg and reassess after that period.  Only if the WD symptoms are still unbearable would you consider increasing and it would be best to post here first before making any changes.  We may ask you to post the daily notes so we can try and work out what might help.

[Mickeymouse]

Thats right first things first... im finding im having a hard time deciding if i should stick it out or taper, my mind is going back and forth hehe.

 

 think im gonna let it sink in for today, talk to some people close to me, and then decide what im gonna do. I must admit that the insonmia thing is something ive had trouble with for a long time, even while on the mirtazapine thats why i had to take xanax too. Although its slightly worse now

 

I wish we lived in the year 2200 or something where they could just make a photo of your brain and know exactly what it needs !!

Im gonna keep this thread updated what im gonna do but its really nice that you guys are there if i choose to taper  

[Mickeymouse]

after talking to some friends and explaining how stuff works im in doubt about something

 

I kinda want to wait one more week and then take no melatonin or xanax whatsoever and see if im able to sleep if im tired enough. But i dont know how greatly i will minimize the chance of succesfully reinstating if i wait one more week. 

 

What would you guys' thoughts be about this?