RandyJames: need support

[Frogie]

3 hours ago, RandyJames said:

Hi Frogie.  Thanks so much for checking up on me.   I appreciate it very much!   I'm not doing good.  I'm going to do a symptom log after this that will sum it up. Thanks for the info on mg/ml.  I was confused because as 1 gram equals 1ml how could 1mg equal 5ml.  I was worried something was way wrong and I was going to take to much.  

 

How are you feeling?  Any improvements?  

 

I haven't started the liquid yet.  I took my normal 20mg dose last night.  ChessieCat recommends that I take both tablets and liquid at first to cross over slowly and then switch to liquid.  Did you do it this way or switch straight to liquid?  I'm really afraid of starting my taper.  I just don't know what to expect.  I don't want to feel any worse but I have to do something as staying on my 20mgs is not working out at all.  I've been worse while in cold turkey but how I'm feeling now is just not ok either.  I'm so mad at medicine.  It's bad enough what I've been through but for my wife and kids to have me in this shape, in the past and now, is really making me angry.  They deserve way better than this.  My doctor actually suggested shock therapy as a possibility yesterday.  Heck no to that.  I don not need a seizure on top of everything else and how in the heck could that fix what the pills have done to me?  It can't.  I always feel bad getting angry at him though because he is a very approachable guy and always returns calls etc.  He and other doctors just need to have the personal experience of what these meds do because without that they'll just never get it.  

Hi:

 

 I’m sorry you are having such a rough time. But it is a good idea to do a symptom journal. Then they know what’s going on. You are very lucky to have Alto and ChessieCat helping you. They are the best. Unfortunately, as good as your psychiatrist is he doesn’t know anything about tapering or how to do it correctly. I’ve been through that with a couple that I trusted completely. Just follow instructions from Alto and ChessieCat and they will get you through this. Shock treatment is crazy! I did read that Alto suggested moving your dose. That worked wonders for me. I take mine now 1st thing in the morning (until March 31st then I’ll be done) but it kept a lot of symptoms at bay except the nausea, that was the worst. When I did the switchover from tablets to liquid I took 3/4 tablet and 1/4 liquid for a week, then 1/2 and 1/2 for a week, then 3/4 liquid and 1/4 tablet for a week, then all liquid. Once I started all liquid I held my dosage for a month before I tapered at all. But don’t follow my instructions, follow Alto and ChessieCat. They may have you do something different. I was working with another mod and that’s how she had me do it. None of us deserve to go through any of this, but the drs or psychiatrists only do what they read about or the pharmaceutical company tells them. But that’s my opinion. Hang in there. Everyone on here is wonderful and will get you through this and back on track. Hopefully you’ll feel better soon. I’m doing ok. Glad when I take my last dose. Coming up soon. It’s been a looong rough road. But I’m almost to the end. You will too one day. Just take the advise of the mods like I said, and you’ll be ok. I learned slow and steady wins the race. And it took mistakes for me to figure that out. You’re going to be ok😊

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

 

 

[RandyJames]

I haven't altered my meds yet.  Still on 20mg tablet of Lexapro.  I took it an hour earlier last night.  My sleep was the worst yet but it's been getting worse anyway so I doubt it was from taking it earlier.  I also had an extra stressful day with life stuff.  All my symptoms are still the same except my muscles are feeling stiffer and weird.  

[Altostrata]

On 3/22/2019 at 8:37 AM, RandyJames said:

Thanks ChessieCat

 

I'm sure he will prescribe the tablets if I ask him.  I saw him yesterday and he was open to doing it how ever I decided but was suggesting a different route.  He's cooperative but clueless.  He even suggested shock therapy if I have a bad reaction while tapering which really made it clear he doesn't get the situation.  It's really frustrating.  There's no way I would ever consent to that.  

 

Could you help me with the conversions for ml please?  I just want to make sure I understand so I don't take to much or to little when I start this.  I really need to understand this. 

 

The bottle says its a 5mg/5ml solution.  The syringe is a 5ml syringe.  If I were to try and match my 20mg tablet dose with liquid, would that be 4 of the 5mg syringes?  Would that be correct?  

 

Thanks so much

 

 

 

On 3/22/2019 at 12:23 PM, RandyJames said:

Symptoms list from last night until today at noon.

 

9:00pm Took my 20mg Lexapro and went to bed. Fell asleep at 10:00.

 

I don't keep a clock by me at night.  I woke up probably around 3:00 am and never fully fell asleep again.  Sort of in and out of shallow sleep with long wide awake periods.  Head full of random racing thoughts.

 

5:30ish anxiety started to spike.  Stayed in bed hoping for more sleep but nothing.

 

8:00 got up finally. 

 

8:00am to present 12:00pm  Lots of anxiety.  My brain fog continues and I am feeling extra lightheaded today.  It's a swimming feeling.  Lots of nerve twitches and inner tension.  My muscles are very stiff but have been for awhile. 

 

 

 

If you're taking Lexapro at night and it's too stimulating for you, it may be interfering with your sleep. You may do better by moving your Lexapro dose an hour each day to earlier in the day. Keep notes as you do this.

 

I would move the Lexapro dose earlier in the day before crossing over to liquid, so as not to confound the results.

 

To cross over to liquid, since you're taking a 20mg Lexapro tablet now, I would take 1/2 tablet (10mg) with 10mg liquid (10mL) for a week, keep notes as you do this.

[RandyJames]

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

 

 

If you're taking Lexapro at night and it's too stimulating for you, it may be interfering with your sleep. You may do better by moving your Lexapro dose an hour each day to earlier in the day. Keep notes as you do this.

 

I would move the Lexapro dose earlier in the day before crossing over to liquid, so as not to confound the results.

 

To cross over to liquid, since you're taking a 20mg Lexapro tablet now, I would take 1/2 tablet (10mg) with 10mg liquid (10mL) for a week, keep notes as you do this.

Thanks Alto.  

 

I'll do both of those things in order.  Should I try to move it back all the way to upon waking?  

 

I am having so much trouble with memory and concentration.  I am forgetting if I used the bathroom even.  I hope it's at least partially because of sleep problems though it started up before my sleep started getting bad so I don't know.  My head feels so fluffy.

 

 

[Leo1983]

Hi mate. 

 

Fluffy is how i would describe my head feelings. Cotton wool.....

 

All normal im afraid.... you will get there.

[ChessieCat]

On 3/23/2019 at 2:37 AM, RandyJames said:

He's cooperative but clueless.  He even suggested shock therapy if I have a bad reaction while tapering which really made it clear he doesn't get the situation.  It's really frustrating.  There's no way I would ever consent to that.

 

LOL 🤣

[RandyJames]

29 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

LOL 🤣

Right?  ⚡😫⚡

[RandyJames]

So yesterday I had a slightly more calm evening for some reason.  I had started off with an extra bad day and at around 4:00pm felt a bit better.  Symptoms were still there but somehow anxiety was a bit less but noticeable.  I ended up sleeping much better than I have been last night. I fell asleep at around 10:00pm and woke up once after what seemed like long dreams then was awake for maybe an hour then slept again and even dreamt again.  I think I may have actually got 7 hours of sleep. 

 

Upon waking though my anxiety kicked in and the depression and brain fog.  My muscles are still twitching and are very tight.  I've had tight muscles for years at this point but since the twitching kicked in a few weeks ago they've been worse.  My body feels so weird.

 

 

[Leo1983]

Upon waking though my anxiety kicked in and the depression and brain fog.

 

Very normal for me and others during wd.it sucks but keep positive.

 

Hope your ok

 

Lee

[Leo1983]

I dont know how to cut things and paste proply as you can see. Lol

[RandyJames]

1 hour ago, Leo1983 said:

I dont know how to cut things and paste proply as you can see. Lol

Lol.  How are you feeling today?  I hope some better.  As the day's gone on I'm feeling slightly better than this morning anxiety wise.  Brain fog is still really bad as usual.  I wonder how much the fog plays into the depressive feelings and anhedonia.  If I was thinking well maybe I could string enough thoughts together in a meaningful enough way to actually be able to enjoy something, you know?  

[Altostrata]

RJ, good to hear you're feeling a bit better. Your system may be recovering from that excessive 30mg dosage.

 

Did you move the timing of your Lexapro dose?

[RandyJames]

7 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Did you move the timing of your Lexapro dose?

Thanks Alto.  I was going to move the dose back but I forgot to.  I took it at around 9:00pm like usual.  I will do my best to remember tonight.  

[RandyJames]

(Need to vent some.)

 

Having a bad night after a slightly better afternoon.  I'm having a really hard time not feeling like I have been permanently altered by the meds.  I went online to look for positive stories and really just found a bunch of horror stories.  One in particular sounds so much like how I feel and they are still the same years later.  Their persisting symptoms sprang up even before they stopped the meds as is my case.   Their issues didn't come from WD but the meds themselves.

 

When I have been in WD before all the resulting symptoms made sense.  I had abruptly stopped the pills and as a result went into WD.  In the boat I'm in now it's starting to really feel like the meds have just damaged my brain.  I feel like a brainless shadow of myself.  I have no flowing thoughts, like my brain is literally running on fumes.  I was getting down the last of the boxes out of the rafters in the garage this afternoon and found so many old toys and things from when me and my sister were sooo small.  Even though I remembered them and recognized that they should have flipped on memories and feelings nothing happened.  Just the same fuzzy headed non human feeling I've had for so long now.  I am forgetting everything and using the wrong words constantly in conversation.  I feel no emotions.  All I can feel is frustration and fear.  Not even anger.  I know I'm pissed off at things, especially psychiatry, but the actual feeling of anger isn't there.  

 

Everything I do feels overly exhilarating and causes anxiety.  I use earplugs every night so I don't wake up at any little sound and I've been leaving them in as long as I can after getting up to drown out the TV and any other noises.   The TV has been really aggravating to my nerves and I can't even deal with it.  I'm not even going to be able to watch the last season of Game of Thrones.  My wife had an old episode on the other day and just a few minutes raised my anxiety through the roof.   I've got such a dead look in my eyes and I look like crud.  My health is apparently good according to my GP except for elevated bp but I feel I look like I'm ill.  

 

My muscles are so tight. They twitch all day.  I found today that when  I squeeze them between my fingers they don't hurt.  Like, I'll squeeze them super hard and I cant even feel it, my shoulders especially.  I can feel the touch on the skin but the muscles themselves are super dead feeling  but super tight and cordy.  I can move them and I can stretch them and lift things but they feel dead.   My feet are stiff too and the bottoms also feel sort of dead. They aren't ticklish at all anymore, like the reflexes are gone.  After asking doctor google about this today it makes me worry I may have MS.  More worries

 

I haven't even stopped the meds yet so I have the prospect of possible permanent damage from them coupled with a long WD process to look forward to.  I keep fantasizing weird desperate stuff like maybe they'll be able to transfer your consciousness to a computer soon🤖 so sign me up and get me out of this or, they must be working on a reversal of the effects of these drugs and it's only a matter of time.  Totally irrational stuff.  

[jonnypeters1234567]

Thanks for your message on my board.

 

i can think a bit clearer today. The way I see it is, all the symptons of withdrawal, adverse effects etc are all nervous system destabilisation. It doesn't matter what drug you took and for how long etc. People keep asking in groups etc what meds people took in a way to compare outcomes etc, I personally believe it makes absolutely no difference. The same with symptons arriving on the med or off. It just means your nervous system has given up on the drug, it's become destablised. 

[RandyJames]

3 hours ago, jonnypeters1234567 said:

Thanks for your message on my board.

 

i can think a bit clearer today. The way I see it is, all the symptons of withdrawal, adverse effects etc are all nervous system destabilisation. It doesn't matter what drug you took and for how long etc. People keep asking in groups etc what meds people took in a way to compare outcomes etc, I personally believe it makes absolutely no difference. The same with symptons arriving on the med or off. It just means your nervous system has given up on the drug, it's become destablised. 

I'm so glad to hear you're thinking more clearly.  You really deserve any relief you can get.  You could very well be hitting a turning point especially since you're approaching the two year mark.  It will continue to get better and better with some periods of backsliding but it will get better.  

 

 

[RandyJames]

I took my dose an hour earlier last night.  I haven't noticed any changes today or last night.  My sleep was not great as usual and I woke up to all the same.  

[Leo1983]

Hi.

 

Sorry your feeling so rough.

 

How did the move go?

[RandyJames]

10 minutes ago, Leo1983 said:

Hi.

 

Sorry your feeling so rough.

 

How did the move go?

Thanks man. 

 

We haven't moved yet.  Still clearing things out.  Escrow closes on April 16th so we have until then to be out.  Our 3 month lease at the apartment starts on April 7th so we'll have 9 days to move our stuff in.  The majority of our things are in a storage pod until we find a home to buy so we thankfully wont have to much to move into the apartment.  

 

[Leo1983]

You will get there. 

 

It does not go away over night tho mate.

 

Its the long haul. I have been ok for a few weeks, last 4 days i feel like i have been ripped a new *******. 

 

That this process tho. 

[RandyJames]

38 minutes ago, Leo1983 said:

Its the long haul. I have been ok for a few weeks, last 4 days i feel like i have been ripped a new *******. 

I'm sorry to hear you took a turn.  Sounds like the waves and windows though so that should indicate wellness is on it's way.  You've got this in the bag!

[Leo1983]

Im guna make a point of putting it in the bag. 

 

Then im guna decide who goes in a bag 1st... my GP? Or the shrink? Lol

[RandyJames]

30 minutes ago, Leo1983 said:

Im guna make a point of putting it in the bag. 

 

Then im guna decide who goes in a bag 1st... my GP? Or the shrink? Lol

🤜👨‍⚕️ 

 

lol

[RandyJames]

I moved my dose back last night another hour to 7:00pm.  

 

Yesterday was a really bad day.  My brain is just not working.  I am forgetting everything.  Important things and little things and all my thoughts are just jumbled.  I have no ability to organize.  Constant anxiety.  My muscles are twitching away and really tight.  I'm really feeling darkly depressed.  UGH

[RandyJames]

@AltostrataI took my dose at 6:00 pm last night.  Nothing has changed yet.  I wonder if I should try making the switch to liquid now so I that I can try to start tapering.  I'm hoping that in my case, if I have become oversensitive to the pills that maybe a reduction would actually bring me some sort of relief.  When I do taper should I start at a 10% drop to 18mgs or try something smaller? 

 

Thanks for the help Alto.  SA is literally the only beacon of support for this nightmare.  

[Altostrata]

Please do not switch to liquid. Too much is happening.

 

You have withdrawal syndrome like hundreds of other people here. Instead of making yourself more miserable by thinking of yourself as a doomed victim, why not resolve to see it through and heal from it?

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

"Is it always going to be like this?"

 

Withdrawal dialogues & encouragement

[Sassenach]

Hi Randy

 

At the start of March I felt like you after 3 months of cold turkey withdrawal.

I found this site and reinstated 3 weeks ago at half dose and feeling much better, long way to go yet but it is so much easier to be optimistic.

Stick with it because it does get better, maybe not every day but if you feel at the bottom, the only way is up.

Hope you feel better soon.

 

 

[RandyJames]

41 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Please do not switch to liquid. Too much is happening.

 

You have withdrawal syndrome like hundreds of other people here. Instead of making yourself more miserable by thinking of yourself as a doomed victim, why not resolve to see it through and heal from it?

Thanks Alto.  

 

The last thing I want to do is frustrate you or anyone else here.  I really appreciate all of your guy's help.  It's hard to not vent about how I'm feeling  but I'll try and reign it in.  I don't want to bring others down.  I've been worried that the positive feedback I am giving to other users is sort of nullified by my own personal pessimism.  

 

I definitely am resolved to see it through and that's why I have been so anxious to begin tapering.  I feel like the healing can only begin once I've started.  I'm not feeling stable at my 20mgs, worse at 30mg, so how long do I wait?  

 

Can you help me settle on a plan for all of this?  I feel I need something in concrete as I feel I'm in limbo right now.  

 

Here is what I am thinking.  We will be moved into the apartment by April 16th and will be there until July 7th.  Next we will find a new home and will have moved by July 10th.  I can stay at the 20mg tablet until then, then switch over to liquid using a crossover of tablets and liquid.  If the switch to liquid is ok then I can begin to taper using the 10% method.  

 

Does this sound like a good plan?  

 

 

[RandyJames]

 

51 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

Hi Randy

 

At the start of March I felt like you after 3 months of cold turkey withdrawal.

I found this site and reinstated 3 weeks ago at half dose and feeling much better, long way to go yet but it is so much easier to be optimistic.

Stick with it because it does get better, maybe not every day but if you feel at the bottom, the only way is up.

Hope you feel better soon.

 

 

Thanks for the encouragement Sassenach

 

Sorry you had to go through a cold turkey experience.  It's awful.  

 

I am actually not as bad as when I have quit cold turkey before so in that way I'm not at the bottom.  For me the brain fog and anxiety are what's really getting to me though.  I think the reason I'm so scared is that this time I'm experiencing it while still on my normal dose that I've been on for so long.  Before, when I had come off the pills, it was clear what was happening.  In my current situation I feel more up in the air I guess.  I'll take your advise and try and be optimistic.  

 

Thanks for taking the time to help.  I hope you continue to feel better.

 

 

[Altostrata]

As you may have noticed, we speak in terms of months for stabilization. We can't help you with an instant fix.

 

You are only now starting to recover from taking too much Lexapro March 12-17. Moving 20mg Lexapro earlier in the day may help your sleep, which will be a substantial improvement. Please let us know how this change is going.

 

I don't know why you are fixated on a tapering schedule when you have to do all the planning for a move. If what you're saying is you are planning to start tapering from 20mg after July 10, that sounds possible -- but you'll have to see how you feel, week by week, month by month. It's a waste of time to continue to discuss this.

[RandyJames]

8 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

As you may have noticed, we speak in terms of months for stabilization. We can't help you with an instant fix.

 

You are only now starting to recover from taking too much Lexapro March 12-17. Moving 20mg Lexapro earlier in the day may help your sleep, which will be a substantial improvement. Please let us know how this change is going.

 

I don't know why you are fixated on a tapering schedule when you have to do all the planning for a move. If what you're saying is you are planning to start tapering from 20mg after July 10, that sounds possible -- but you'll have to see how you feel, week by week, month by month. It's a waste of time to continue to discuss this.

I totally realize there is no instant fix.  I'm sorry if it seemed otherwise. 

 

I'm only fixated on a taper schedule simply because even before I bumped to 30mgs I had been feeling worse and worse for 2 months and it is clear to me that the meds are making me ill and they need to go.  I know it will be a process and not a quick fix.

 

I do mean after July 10th.  I will play it by how I feel while keeping July in mind as hopefully when I can begin to quit the drugs for good. 

 

Thanks 

[wantrelief]

Hi RandyJames,

 

I was just reading your thread when you must have written on mine!  Thank you for checking-in with me.  I am doing ok...hanging in there.  I was going to tell you that I relate a lot to things you write.  It is really challenging to be feeling all of these withdrawal symptoms whilst on a full dose of medication.  

 

I am curious if your symptoms started with increased stress (I know you have been under a lot of stress but wasn't sure the timing when you started to feel the symptoms)?  That is what precipitated my symptoms so I get confused what happened to me, if I am in tolerance or what.  It does seem clear, whatever the cause, that these drugs aren't working for us any longer.  I think it makes sense to wait until your move is over to consider tapering (depending on how you feel at that time).

 

I am thinking about you and just want you to know you are not alone.

[RandyJames]

@wantrelief

I'm glad to hear you're doing ok. Thanks for checking in.  It's nice when someone can relate to all this.  

 

I have certainly had a lot of stress but it's been pretty ongoing for a long time.  The bulk of it started with my parents passing in 2017 and it has continued with the house situation.  I started feeling off in late January this year.  I was doing much better since the prozac ct in November 2017.  In fact up until January I was sleeping and even having trouble getting up.  I was able to drink coffee and enjoy things more.  I wasn't perfect but so much better.  Then in January I just started slowly going down the tubes.  This was coming up to when I knew the house would be put up for sale so maybe the stress did increase.  However I had known this for along time and was actually enjoying looking for homes on real estate sites and even looking for things my family and I could enjoy in those areas.  I was able to plan and get things done.  Now it's hard to imagine a future and I can't think things through for anything.  I do have a lot of major depression symptoms but I've had them all while in WD before so I just don't know.   Stress sure can't be helping things at all, that's for sure.  

 

Thanks for thinking of me.  I'll check in on you soon.

 

 

[Frogie]

Just wondered how you were doing?

 

 I’m off to the dr in a little while. Have white spots on my throat, coughing and just feel achy. I’m sure it’s strep.

 

Haven’t been sick for a long time. He will give me a z-pack and I’ll be a lot better even by tomorrow.

 

Hope you are better.

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

[Sassenach]

Hi Frogie

 

Doing OK thanks.

 

Still got symptoms but slowly getting less and less.

 

Managed to do a bit of work every day last week which has not happened in last 16 weeks so optimistic.

 

Did you get rid off sore throat and other symptom ?.

 

All the best.

[Frogie]

10 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

Hi Frogie

 

Doing OK thanks.

 

Still got symptoms but slowly getting less and less.

 

Managed to do a bit of work every day last week which has not happened in last 16 weeks so optimistic.

 

Did you get rid off sore throat and other symptom ?.

 

All the best.

I’m glad your symptoms are getting less. That’s good news. I did get rid of my sore throat, thanks.

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx