Dabhob33: introduction

[Dabhob33]

1 minute ago, Shep said:

Please don't make any more changes just yet. I'm asking questions so that we can have all of the information first.

****ok.  I’ll hold steady with the doxy until further notice 

1 minute ago, Shep said:

 

Are you going to be able to sleep without the doxy? 

****not sure.  Looking back over recent weeks the days I took it I slept - not without bumps, but at least slept.  

If the doxy is giving you sleep at night and you're able to deal with the exhaustion during the day, you may want to keep it in your current cocktail, especially since low energy has been an ongoing issue and may or may not be connected to the doxy. Let us know what you think. 

****yes, the energy issue has been going on well before taking the doxy.   Definitely not something I want to take long term though.  But something to help through the taper?

1 minute ago, Shep said:

 

I wish there was an easy fix to this, but you'll have to weigh the pros and cons.

 

You're right - with benzos nothing does seem to make sense. 

 

But it will get better. 

 

 

[Shep]

Thanks for answering all of these questions.

 

Question - are you "overall" feeling better than when you first came into the forum? I know there have been some shifts from insomnia to burning to exhaustion, but looking at an "overall" picture. 

 

If so, I would hold everything steady and see how much stability you can achieve by giving your nervous system a break from these changes.

 

Please let us know what you think. 

[Dabhob33]

9 minutes ago, Shep said:

Thanks for answering all of these questions.

 

Question - are you "overall" feeling better than when you first came into the forum? I know there have been some shifts from insomnia to burning to exhaustion, but looking at an "overall" picture. 

****initial answer is yes, but my negative mind says I’m no better.   However, I know I have improved.   My obsesssive mind about not healing and the horrific stories overpowers everything.   Working on this. 

9 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

If so, I would hold everything steady and see how much stability you can achieve by giving your nervous system a break from these changes

.  

9 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

Please let us know what you think. 

****i’ll hold still.  Thank you all for your help.  You’ve helped to settle me down (although I feel as if I can lose it at any time) with your calm, interactive approach.    

[Dabhob33]

One other thing that I haven’t been noting is the fact I’m still waking in panic after dozing off.   It’s awful. 

[Dabhob33]

Also, someone mentioned lithium causing sleeping issues.  Found attached thread. https://www.medhelp.org/posts/Bipolar-Disorder/Lithium-induced-insomnia/show/401112?page=3

[Altostrata]

2 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

One other thing that I haven’t been noting is the fact I’m still waking in panic after dozing off.   It’s awful. 

 

This is a very common pattern in withdrawal syndrome.

 

How long have you been taking lithium in the evening? When did you change dosages? When did the sleep disruption appear?

 

If you've been taking the same amount of lithium for some weeks before increasing the evening Valium to 7mg, and you have been feeling increasingly exhausted since that date, it is unlikely the lithium is causing this symptom -- although, as Shep points out, it could be the  doxylamine, if the exhaustion is concurrent with that use.

 

We need all this information to chase down what drug is causing what. The changes confuse the picture.

 

Please add your eyedrops to your signature. They could be involved, too.

 

 

 

[Dabhob33]

3/12/18

 

620am - woke up 

8 - valium 5mg / breakfast / eye drops / 3

No energy / anxiety in chest

Noon - lunch 

Couch - meditating

230 - clean up kitchen / 3 

330 - pick up daughter from school 

Feeling agitated with even the smallest things the last few days particularly.   Nothing notable causing it.   Just feeling edgier than normal, bc this is one of my bigger symptoms.  

Also giving a lot of thought to withdrawal and feelings I have now.  Horror of wd thoughts are my worst symptom.  It feeds the others.  

5 - dinner 

6 - doze off for second woke up in panic - very little burning though 

8- 900mg Lithium 

930 -  eye drops 

10 - 7mg valium

11 - sleep - sliver of Doxylamine - meditation

3/13/18

1 - woke up

530 - woke up - panicked that I won’t make it through withdrawals

[Shep]

12 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

Also, someone mentioned lithium causing sleeping issues.  Found attached thread. https://www.medhelp.org/posts/Bipolar-Disorder/Lithium-induced-insomnia/show/401112?page=3

 

Hi, Dabhob. 

 

I read this from that link - "Benzodiazepines and Ambien caused me to be depressed / mood-swings. On Lithium alone I am really fine -- except for the sleeping, which is a BIG problem."  Sounds like this guy's insomnia problem isn't caused by taking lithium, but by NOT taking benzos and z-drugs.

 

Please stop searching the internet for random horror stories. While we have only limited control over withdrawal, this is one area we do have control over. 

 

This is one of the best non-drug coping skills out there:

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Regarding your exhaustion, here are two options to consider:

 

1. It's been enough days that your nervous system has registered the benzo updose and it may have been too much. With doxy added to aid in sleep, you may want to reduce your nighttime Valium down to 6.5 mg. If you do this, please HOLD for at least a week and do not make any other changes in timing or in dose. 

 

OR

 

2. Don't make any changes and continue holding to see if you can stabilize where you are at. 

 

Please let us know your thoughts on these options. 

[Dabhob33]

8 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

Hi, Dabhob. 

 

I read this from that link - "Benzodiazepines and Ambien caused me to be depressed / mood-swings. On Lithium alone I am really fine -- except for the sleeping, which is a BIG problem."  Sounds like this guy's insomnia problem isn't caused by taking lithium, but by NOT taking benzos and z-drugs.

 

Please stop searching the internet for random horror stories. While we have only limited control over withdrawal, this is one area we do have control over. 

****absolutely right.  I’ll stop.  I do it all day. 

This is one of the best non-drug coping skills out there:

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Regarding your exhaustion, here are two options to consider:

 

1. It's been enough days that your nervous system has registered the benzo updose and it may have been too much. With doxy added to aid in sleep, you may want to reduce your nighttime Valium down to 6.5 mg. If you do this, please HOLD for at least a week and do not make any other changes in timing or in dose. 

 

OR

 

2. Don't make any changes and continue holding to see if you can stabilize where you are at. 

****I’d like to drop to 6.5mg at night. 

Please let us know your thoughts on these options. 

 

[Shep]

22 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

I’d like to drop to 6.5mg at night. 

 

Hi, Dabhob. How did the reduction go? 

[Dabhob33]

I dropped.  Should I notice a change yet?

[Dabhob33]

3/13/18

1 - woke up

530 - woke up - panicked that I won’t make it through withdrawals

8 - breakfast / 5mg V / eye drops 

Couch - irritable 

11 - lunch / 3

Noon - therapist

Felt decent.   Just anxious in chest and tired.  Constant worry.  Kids were out of control arguing.  Anxiety ramped up. 

5 - dinner 

730 - men’s group 

8- 900mg Lithium 

930 -  eye drops / 3

10 - 6.5mg valium

11 - sleep 

3/14/18

646am - wake

[Shep]

14 minutes ago, Dabhob33 said:

I dropped.  Should I notice a change yet?

 

Hi, Dabhob. It takes about 4 days for your nervous system to register a change and it may take a few weeks for your to stabilize. It's great you were able to sleep all night.

 

This thread may be helpful:

 

Stabilizing - what does that mean?

 

And Brassmonkey has coined the term "Withdrawal Normal". Withdrawal Normal is what your goal is. Once you reach this state, you'll be ready to make another reduction. Please note this may take a few weeks or even a few months. However, it's worth the hold to get back some functionality. 

 

Withdrawal Normal

 

Please update your signature to reflect your reduction. A direct link is here:

 

Account - settings - signature

[Dabhob33]

5 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Hi, Dabhob. It takes about 4 days for your nervous system to register a change and it may take a few weeks for your to stabilize. It's great you were able to sleep all night.

 

This thread may be helpful:

 

Stabilizing - what does that mean?

****makes sense

And Brassmonkey has coined the term "Withdrawal Normal". Withdrawal Normal is what your goal is. Once you reach this state, you'll be ready to make another reduction. Please note this may take a few weeks or even a few months. However, it's worth the hold to get back some functionality. 

 

Withdrawal Normal

****i think I’m getting to know my wdnormal.   Much of my anxiety though is being on the med and anticipating coming off.   I want to move on, but know the best thing to do is exhibit patience.   I feel like I can’t live until I’m off this stuff.  Exhaustion, depression, dpdr, pain.  

Please update your signature to reflect your reduction. A direct link is here:

 

Account - settings - signature

5 hours ago, Shep said:

Please update your signature to reflect your reduction. A direct link is here:

 

Account - settings - signature

****done

[Dabhob33]

3/15/18

2am - sleep 

4 - woke 

645 - woke - not a good night of sleep - anxiety - no doxy 

Anxious about therapy appt, an hour drive away.  Normally not a big deal.

8 - breakfast

Feeling severe anxiety/agitated today - in stomach, chest and throat

10 - therapy

Noon - lunch / 3

1 - Acupuncture 

Watched basketball 

Magnesium drink

Avocado

Lot of ruminating - panic about symptoms

Feel bad for not being fully here for my family 

Really worried about not being better - losing my wife 

Burning came back after being away for a bit

8- 900mg Lithium 

930 -  eye drops 

10 - 6.5mg valium

3/16/18

2am -couldn’t sleep - doxy

630 - woke anxious

[Dabhob33]

Just realized that I’ve been taking 10.5 mg, (and 11mg) Valium rather than 11.5mg this whole time.  

[Dabhob33]

I’m all messed up.  

[Dabhob33]

3/16/18

2am -couldn’t sleep - doxy

630 - woke anxious

8 - breakfast / eye drops 3  / valium 5mg

On couch - feel guilty - exhausted 

Noon - lunch

2 - picked up kids from school 

3 - dropped Kids off at grandparents 

Very heavy head and eyes all day. Worried about not getting back to work, taking a trip with the family.  I’m somewhat agoraphobic.   Very depressed.  No joy. 

5 - dinner

730 - men’s group 

8- 900mg Lithium 

930 -  eye drops 

10 - 5.5mg valium - I know why I feel so badly, in part.   I had only been taking 10.5mg.  

3/17/18

Midnight - sleep - sliver doxy - burning

230am - woke - up burning - sliver doxy and 325mg Tylenol

no sleep rest of night

[Dabhob33]

Did I set myself back with the mistake?   I’ve been ruminating on it and starting to panic.   Why can’t I just feel normal?    I feel hopeless....my family needs me back and they just don’t understand.   I may lose them.   

[Shep]

On 3/16/2018 at 7:30 AM, Dabhob33 said:

Just realized that I’ve been taking 10.5 mg, (and 11mg) Valium rather than 11.5mg this whole time.  

 

Dabhob, are you sticking with the 10.5 mg now?

 

If so, please update your signature. 

 

Account - settings - signature

 

You may want to updose back to where you were since your last change was just 4 days ago. 

 

Do you have a clearly labeled pill box to store your meds in? All of us make mistakes when we taper, but if you can learn from this and find a better way of keeping track, you'll save yourself grief later on. As long as you learn from a mistake, you're still making progress. 

[Dabhob33]

3/17/18

Midnight - sleep - sliver doxy - burning

230am - woke - up burning - sliver doxy and 325mg Tylenol

Never went back to sleep

8 - breakfast - 5mg valium / omega 3 / eye drops /3 

Couch - watched TV

Massive wave of anxiety in stomach and chest / no motivation / can’t wait until bed time tonight 

Noon - lunch 

1 - Picked up son from grandparents - agitated

Burning

130 - Tylenol 325mg

Magnesium drink

Vit C

Ruminating about taper; worried about going to sleep.   Am I going to heal?   I feel awful on valium

5 - Family over for St Pats dinner - isolated 

Member I know of on benzo support group I belong to committed suicide today.  

8- 900mg Lithium 

930 -  eye drops 

10 - 5.5mg valium

3/18/18

1am - sliver doxy - sleep

Woke up a few times

[Dabhob33]

3/18/18

1am - sliver doxy - sleep

Woke up a few times

8 - 5mg valium / eye drops / 4 

9 - breakfast

Not engaged with my family.   Can’t stop obsessing about taper (big time), how Levaquin damaged me and 19 ECTs.   Anxiety in chest.  Very low and burning.  I want off the valium.  Between the valium and lithium I think they’re making me extremely low.  I’ve been very depressed the last week.  Do I just push through?

Diarrhea 

330 - Tylenol 325mg

I have to quit the Facebook groups.  

430 - parents house for dinner with family 

More of same...

8- 900mg Lithium 

930 -  eye drops 

10 - 5.5mg valium

3/19/18

1am - sleep

3 - woke in burning, panic that I need to go to the hospital.  

No more sleep...

 

[Dabhob33]

Should I continue taking the lithium?  Also, Saw my psych today and she suggested Zyprexa for my obsessive thinking.  

[Dabhob33]

2 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

Should I continue taking the lithium?  Also, Saw my psych today and she suggested Zyprexa for my obsessive thinking.  

My psych also wants me off lithium.    I’m not in a good place right now.  

[Dabhob33]

2 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

My psych also wants me off lithium.    I’m not in a good place right now.  

I never ever felt suicidal before starting benzos. Not even a thought.  My mind goes to bad places with little sleep.  I don’t know what to do.  

[Dabhob33]

3/19/18

3 - woke in burning, panic that I need to go to the hospital.  

No more sleep...

8 - 5mg valium / eye drops / breakfast 

9 - see psychiatrist - Dr Christina Delos Reyes

Wanted to put me on Gabapentin last time I saw her for the burning.  

Feeling horrible - afraid to sleep, anxiety higher than ever (in chest and stomach), energy low, feel hopeless.  And I’m holding.  This is torture.  The worst I’ve felt in last few months. 

11 - 325mg Tylenol

2 - picked up son at school

330 - took son to guitar lessons

Pushing really hard to do things.  

I feel paralyzed about what to eat, things to take, etc.  don’t want to exacerbate the problem

5 - dinner

6 - homework with kids

8- 900mg Lithium 

930 -  eye drops 

10 - 5.5mg valium / 25mg doxy

11 - sleep

3/20/18

1230am - woke up.  Horrible burning....can’t handle this anymore.   Need to go to hospital

[AliG]

Hi Dave. I'm sorry that you are feeling the need to go to hospital. Has anything changed in your routine over the last few days that could possibly account for this?

 

14 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

My psych also wants me off lithium.    I’m not in a good place right now.

 

 

It's probably best to hold, as you are right now, not upsetting the equilibrium/ homeostasis that you are trying so hard to achieve. Quitting Lithium or adding Zyprexa (or any other drug) is not really a good idea and it may be that your doctor, whilst trying to be creative is actually just very unsure of what to do and is clutching at straws, which is what they often do when their particular "cocktail" isn't working.

 

It is highly unlikely that it will add to your stability. Meditation would be a lot more helpful for your obsessive thinking, than Zyprexa.

 

If you feel you need to go to the hospital to be safe ~ then please DO go, but just please be aware that they will probably cold - turkey you off some of the drugs you are on and add in some others, trying to create a drug mix/load that may be even harder to withdraw from, in the long term.

 

I would hope that maybe you don't need the hospital, and we can continue to talk here, instead. Of course, you are the best judge of how you are feeling and essentially, as always - it's totally up to you.

 

Keep in touch and let us know your thoughts ... I hope you're feeling better very soon.

Ali

[Shep]

14 minutes ago, AliG said:

Meditation would be a lot more helpful for your obsessive thinking, than Zyprexa.

 

Yes, definitely.

 

Here is a good one specifically for obsessive thinking. Might be worth a listen at bedtime.

 

Guided Meditation Overthinking before sleep video (21 minutes)

[Dabhob33]

6 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Yes, definitely.

 

Here is a good one specifically for obsessive thinking. Might be worth a listen at bedtime.

 

Guided Meditation Overthinking before sleep video (21 minutes)

 

6 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Yes, definitely.

 

Here is a good one specifically for obsessive thinking. Might be worth a listen at bedtime.

 

Guided Meditation Overthinking before sleep video (21 minutes)

I’ve actially used that one

 

6 hours ago, AliG said:

Hi Dave. I'm sorry that you are feeling the need to go to hospital. Has anything changed in your routine over the last few days that could possibly account for this?

***Nothing changed.  It’s been mentioned that I’m still feeling the Jan 2017 rapid taper (55mg Librium over 3.5 weeks).  Never stabilized?   Should I go back up to 20mg Valium? 

 

 

It's probably best to hold, as you are right now, not upsetting the equilibrium/ homeostasis that you are trying so hard to achieve. Quitting Lithium or adding Zyprexa (or any other drug) is not really a good idea and it may be that your doctor, whilst trying to be creative is actually just very unsure of what to do and is clutching at straws, which is what they often do when their particular "cocktail" isn't working.

***my psychiatrist is well meaning but at a loss.  She’s an addiction specialist and said she’s only seen this 2x over 20+ years.  Yikes!  

It is highly unlikely that it will add to your stability. Meditation would be a lot more helpful for your obsessive thinking, than Zyprexa.

****ok 

6 hours ago, AliG said:

 

If you feel you need to go to the hospital to be safe ~ then please DO go, but just please be aware that they will probably cold - turkey you off some of the drugs you are on and add in some others, trying to create a drug mix/load that may be even harder to withdraw from, in the long term.

****this is where my desperation comes in.  No where to go.  I can see why people are taking their lives l.  

6 hours ago, AliG said:

 

I would hope that maybe you don't need the hospital, and we can continue to talk here, instead. Of course, you are the best judge of how you are feeling and essentially, as always - it's totally up to you.

 

****if I can just get some decent sleep I can handle the other symptoms.  Although the burning is pretty brutal.   I can’t believe the thought of suicide is even in my head.  Two beautiful kids.  

6 hours ago, AliG said:

 

Keep in touch and let us know your thoughts ... I hope you're feeling better very soon.

Ali

 

[AliG]

Dave.You have to realise that this is all so very temporary ~ I went through all this and it seemed so real : now it seems very transitory and impermanent. It's the drugs talking.

 

I had the sleep problem ... it's a real issue, and one that often re - occurs but it's able to be handled, and it's do ... able. Remaining calm ... is key. No panic.

[Dabhob33]

Should I consider updosing to 11 or 11.5?

did I screw myself with rapid taper last jan 2017?   Kindling?

[AliG]

No, not at all. Staying stable is key ~ not doses. There is no magic dose ~ if you can stay calm, stabilise and look to Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms ,

~ you will be doing fine.

Then, once you are stable, you can look to gently tapering and becoming drug - free.

[Dabhob33]

Feel I damaged myself with the rapid and Levaquin.   

 

Need to balance and stay off FB groups.  They’re telling me I’m f-ed.  There was a suicide this weekend. 

[AliG]

I'm sorry that you are in this position. Please use the guided meditation that Shep posted ( above) and do whatever you possibly can to stay positive.

 

Staying off Facebook, is probably a part of your self- care plan.

Edited March 21, 2018 by AliG

[Dabhob33]

3/20/18

1230am - woke up.  Horrible burning....can’t handle this anymore.   Need to go to hospital   

No more sleep

8 - 5mg valium / eye drops

 

Laid in bed - no sleep - extremely restless - listening to meditations

12 - therapy

1 - Tylenol 325mg

2 - daughter kicked and broke her bedroom window.  I didn’t react well.   I’m losing it.  Will pay for this later, already feeling the burning.  

4 - body on fire

5 - dinner

Pacing

8- 900mg Lithium 

930 -  eye drops 

10 - 5.5mg valium / 25mg doxy

11 - sleep

catastrophized quite a bit today.,,,very dark places 

[Dabhob33]

My psychiatrist followed up with me today to ensure I dropped the lithium (concern over blood test results) bc I told her I was hesitant.  What do I do?