Dabhob33: introduction

[Shep]

Hi, Dabhob. I've asked the other mods for feedback. Did your doctor give you a taper schedule for the lithium or is the bloodwork so bad she wants you to come off it abruptly? 

 

Any information you have about the blood work will be helpful. 

[Dabhob33]

Initially she said I could drop all in one day.  Then she said drop 450mg initially and 450 in 7 days.    

I read minimum 2 weeks between each drop.  

 

[Dabhob33]

I feel I’ll be flying without a net for depression and mood.   But that’s 28 yrs of ADs talking.  

 

Ill just be on valium then. 

[Shep]

Did she tell you what was wrong with the bloodwork? Is there a problem with your kidneys? 

[Dabhob33]

4 hours ago, Shep said:

Did she tell you what was wrong with the bloodwork? Is there a problem with your kidneys? 

Nothing wrong with kidneys.   Said I “ wasn’t within range” 

[JanCarol]

Hey Dabhob - 

 

On 3/13/2018 at 8:21 AM, Dabhob33 said:

someone mentioned lithium causing sleeping issues.

 

Normally, Lithium helps to rectify your sleep clock and sleep cycle.

 

I would venture that the people on the thread may be taking other drugs which are interfering with sleep (as Shep pointed out with the Benzos)

I was put on it to correct my severe delayed cycle sleep.  It didn't really help,  but - it didn't make it worse, either.

Here's a scienc-y article about the biological clock and lithium:  

http://psycheducation.org/treatment/bipolar-disorder-light-and-darkness/the-biological-clock-light-and-lithium/

 

But if it worries you, you can take your lithium in the morning.  I took a big dose in morning, and a lesser dose at night, if I recall correctly.

 

 

On 3/20/2018 at 12:45 AM, Dabhob33 said:

Should I continue taking the lithium?  Also, Saw my psych today and she suggested Zyprexa for my obsessive thinking

 

Oh dear, D - Zyprexa is a much harder drug to come off of.  It fiddles more transmitters, it's like a shotgun drug - a spray of effects.  Yes, it is likely to stop your obsessive thinking, because it is likely to stop ALL of your thinking.  These drugs are not "anti-psychotic," they are anti-brain.  That's why many of us call them Neuroleptic, which means just that.  If you want to learn about people suffering from Zyprexa, there are plenty of threads here of people trying to come off that drug, and the horrible consequences of even the slowest tapers.

That your doctor wants to rip you off the lithium and add a more dangerous drug (lithium is dangerous enough) is cause for concern.  I don't believe this doctor has your best interests in mind, she is more concerned with controlling you than helping you.  It's not her fault - she was trained to "help" by drugging.

 

On 3/20/2018 at 3:13 AM, Dabhob33 said:

My psych also wants me off lithium.

 

Have you had blood tests that indicate you need to come off the lithium?

I'm very concerned about this doctor's desire to cold switch you from one bad drug to a worse drug.

 

With lithium, it is vitally important that you stay hydrated.  Probably 8-10 glasses of water per day, plus electrolytes (that's minerals).  You can get them in a Hydrolyte or Pedialyte drink, or even Gatorade.  What I prefer to do is at 1/2 tsp of Himalayan salt to one of my glasses of water.  Do not use regular or iodized salt, as it is pure and refined and can be toxic.  Rough sea salt or Himalayan salt has a broad array of minerals to revitalise your kidneys and help your tissues absorb the water.

 

16 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

22 hours ago, Shep said:

Guided Meditation Overthinking before sleep video (21 minutes)

I’ve actially used that one

 

Keep using it.  These aren't like food, you eat it, and say, "I've tried that." 

 

They are tools.  The more you use them, the more skilled you become.  

When you use them over and over and over, they become a practice.  When they are a practice, they offer you resilience against the next storm, and you flex your muscles of concentration and mindfulness, so that when the next disaster strikes, then you can reflexively reach for your tools, and they help.  You will find, as you listen to them over and over, that you will begin to anticipate what is being said, that you will memorise the technique - and this repetition creates great comfort when you need help.

 

6 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

My psychiatrist followed up with me today to ensure I dropped the lithium (concern over blood test results) bc I told her I was hesitant.  What do I do? 

 

I do not see the lithium in your signature.  Please update your signature - mods have asked for this several times.  Please include the lithium, including how long you've been on it.

You have been taking 900 mg lithium for how long?

 

What are the results from your blood tests?

This is important:  if your doctor does not give you your blood tests, then ask her office for a copy - keep track of your OWN blood tests.  Learn what things mean, and observe the changes.

 

Having a "bad report" on a lithium blood test is nothing to be snorted at.

I know you are struggling with stabilisation - that's never a good time to change drugs - but - if you don't - you may end up in dialysis.

 

RIGHT NOW start a protocol of hydration, like I said above.  You cannot drink too much water on lithium.  If you were in a town which had natural lithium water, you would have to drink 846 litres of water for each dose of lithium.  So - are you drinking enough water?  I'm not suggesting that you need to drink 846 litres - I'm simply talking about how vitally important it is for you to hydrate.  I would try 10 glasses / day, with one of those glasses including Himalayan or sea salt.  START THIS RIGHT NOW. 

Get your blood tests, and tell us what result that your doctor was concerned about.  Was it liver?  Kidneys?  I got very sick on lithium - and it didn't show up in the tests.  So - if it is showing up on your tests, it is vitally important that you know what and why.  It may be vitally important to reduce the lithium more quickly than we usually advise.

Your doctor will taper it too fast.  I found that my symptoms improved when I got down to 50% of my original dose.  It may be that the blood test is a mistake, an error, a one-off - but we have to take it seriously.

 

If it were me, I would drop 25% of the lithium right away, and ask for a retesting next month.

 

When you crack open your tablets, they will become immediate release (instead of time release) so you will want to take 2 doses per day.  If it were me, I would take 450 in the morning and 225 at night.  It is very risky to cut the lithium too quickly.  This, coupled with your new hydration routine might get your blood tests back to normal. 

 

 Also important:  do not drink any alcohol at this time.  It will make things harder on your liver.  This also goes for tylenol, and if it's your kidneys, NSAIDs.  This is why it's important to know whether it is your liver or kidneys, or even your thyroid.

 

I know this is a lot of stuff.  I'll summarize:

 

1.  Start hydrating right now.  

2.  Get your blood test - lab report from your doctor.  Report here what is "out of range"

3.  Taper 25% of your lithium to 450 am and 225 pm.

4.  Do not drink alcohol, none, not at all.  Do not take tylenol, none, not at all.  Do not take NSAIDS, none, not at all  (this may be adjusted when you learn about your lab reports).

5.  Ask your doctor for a re-testing of your blood in a month's time.
 

and consider

 

 

6.  Think about getting a different doctor.     We have 2 suggestions for your area:  

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/14971-recommended-doctors-therapists-and-clinics/?do=findComment&comment=182542

 

and 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/14971-recommended-doctors-therapists-and-clinics/?do=findComment&comment=217967

 

I understand you may have insurance and payment issues - but - it can get worse, it may be worth it to sacrifice the money to get good help.

 

MOST IMPORTANTLY:

 

7.  BREATHE - find a way to be curious about your symptoms, talk to your symptoms, learn about your symptoms - and know that it is temporary and will pass.

 

I hope you see the sun today!

 

 

[Dabhob33]

13 hours ago, JanCarol said:

Hey Dabhob - 

 

 

Normally, Lithium helps to rectify your sleep clock and sleep cycle.

 

I would venture that the people on the thread may be taking other drugs which are interfering with sleep (as Shep pointed out with the Benzos)

I was put on it to correct my severe delayed cycle sleep.  It didn't really help,  but - it didn't make it worse, either.

Here's a scienc-y article about the biological clock and lithium:  

http://psycheducation.org/treatment/bipolar-disorder-light-and-darkness/the-biological-clock-light-and-lithium/

 

But if it worries you, you can take your lithium in the morning.  I took a big dose in morning, and a lesser dose at night, if I recall correctly.

 

 

 

Oh dear, D - Zyprexa is a much harder drug to come off of.  It fiddles more transmitters, it's like a shotgun drug - a spray of effects.  Yes, it is likely to stop your obsessive thinking, because it is likely to stop ALL of your thinking.  These drugs are not "anti-psychotic," they are anti-brain.  That's why many of us call them Neuroleptic, which means just that.  If you want to learn about people suffering from Zyprexa, there are plenty of threads here of people trying to come off that drug, and the horrible consequences of even the slowest tapers.

That your doctor wants to rip you off the lithium and add a more dangerous drug (lithium is dangerous enough) is cause for concern.  I don't believe this doctor has your best interests in mind, she is more concerned with controlling you than helping you.  It's not her fault - she was trained to "help" by drugging.

 

 

Have you had blood tests that indicate you need to come off the lithium?

I'm very concerned about this doctor's desire to cold switch you from one bad drug to a worse drug.

 

With lithium, it is vitally important that you stay hydrated.  Probably 8-10 glasses of water per day, plus electrolytes (that's minerals).  You can get them in a Hydrolyte or Pedialyte drink, or even Gatorade.  What I prefer to do is at 1/2 tsp of Himalayan salt to one of my glasses of water.  Do not use regular or iodized salt, as it is pure and refined and can be toxic.  Rough sea salt or Himalayan salt has a broad array of minerals to revitalise your kidneys and help your tissues absorb the water.

 

 

Keep using it.  These aren't like food, you eat it, and say, "I've tried that." 

 

They are tools.  The more you use them, the more skilled you become.  

When you use them over and over and over, they become a practice.  When they are a practice, they offer you resilience against the next storm, and you flex your muscles of concentration and mindfulness, so that when the next disaster strikes, then you can reflexively reach for your tools, and they help.  You will find, as you listen to them over and over, that you will begin to anticipate what is being said, that you will memorise the technique - and this repetition creates great comfort when you need help.

 

 

I do not see the lithium in your signature.  Please update your signature - mods have asked for this several times.  Please include the lithium, including how long you've been on it.

You have been taking 900 mg lithium for how long?

 

What are the results from your blood tests?

This is important:  if your doctor does not give you your blood tests, then ask her office for a copy - keep track of your OWN blood tests.  Learn what things mean, and observe the changes.

 

Having a "bad report" on a lithium blood test is nothing to be snorted at.

I know you are struggling with stabilisation - that's never a good time to change drugs - but - if you don't - you may end up in dialysis.

 

RIGHT NOW start a protocol of hydration, like I said above.  You cannot drink too much water on lithium.  If you were in a town which had natural lithium water, you would have to drink 846 litres of water for each dose of lithium.  So - are you drinking enough water?  I'm not suggesting that you need to drink 846 litres - I'm simply talking about how vitally important it is for you to hydrate.  I would try 10 glasses / day, with one of those glasses including Himalayan or sea salt.  START THIS RIGHT NOW. 

Get your blood tests, and tell us what result that your doctor was concerned about.  Was it liver?  Kidneys?  I got very sick on lithium - and it didn't show up in the tests.  So - if it is showing up on your tests, it is vitally important that you know what and why.  It may be vitally important to reduce the lithium more quickly than we usually advise.

Your doctor will taper it too fast.  I found that my symptoms improved when I got down to 50% of my original dose.  It may be that the blood test is a mistake, an error, a one-off - but we have to take it seriously.

 

If it were me, I would drop 25% of the lithium right away, and ask for a retesting next month.

 

When you crack open your tablets, they will become immediate release (instead of time release) so you will want to take 2 doses per day.  If it were me, I would take 450 in the morning and 225 at night.  It is very risky to cut the lithium too quickly.  This, coupled with your new hydration routine might get your blood tests back to normal. 

 

 Also important:  do not drink any alcohol at this time.  It will make things harder on your liver.  This also goes for tylenol, and if it's your kidneys, NSAIDs.  This is why it's important to know whether it is your liver or kidneys, or even your thyroid.

 

I know this is a lot of stuff.  I'll summarize:

 

1.  Start hydrating right now.  

2.  Get your blood test - lab report from your doctor.  Report here what is "out of range"

3.  Taper 25% of your lithium to 450 am and 225 pm.

4.  Do not drink alcohol, none, not at all.  Do not take tylenol, none, not at all.  Do not take NSAIDS, none, not at all  (this may be adjusted when you learn about your lab reports).

5.  Ask your doctor for a re-testing of your blood in a month's time.
 

and consider

 

 

6.  Think about getting a different doctor.     We have 2 suggestions for your area:  

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/14971-recommended-doctors-therapists-and-clinics/?do=findComment&comment=182542

 

and 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/14971-recommended-doctors-therapists-and-clinics/?do=findComment&comment=217967

 

I understand you may have insurance and payment issues - but - it can get worse, it may be worth it to sacrifice the money to get good help.

 

MOST IMPORTANTLY:

 

7.  BREATHE - find a way to be curious about your symptoms, talk to your symptoms, learn about your symptoms - and know that it is temporary and will pass.

 

I hope you see the sun today!

 

 

Thank you!

[Dabhob33]

20 hours ago, JanCarol said:

Hey Dabhob - 

 

 

Normally, Lithium helps to rectify your sleep clock and sleep cycle.

 

I would venture that the people on the thread may be taking other drugs which are interfering with sleep (as Shep pointed out with the Benzos)

I was put on it to correct my severe delayed cycle sleep.  It didn't really help,  but - it didn't make it worse, either.

Here's a scienc-y article about the biological clock and lithium:  

http://psycheducation.org/treatment/bipolar-disorder-light-and-darkness/the-biological-clock-light-and-lithium/

 

But if it worries you, you can take your lithium in the morning.  I took a big dose in morning, and a lesser dose at night, if I recall correctly.

 

*****OK

 

Oh dear, D - Zyprexa is a much harder drug to come off of.  It fiddles more transmitters, it's like a shotgun drug - a spray of effects.  Yes, it is likely to stop your obsessive thinking, because it is likely to stop ALL of your thinking.  These drugs are not "anti-psychotic," they are anti-brain.  That's why many of us call them Neuroleptic, which means just that.  If you want to learn about people suffering from Zyprexa, there are plenty of threads here of people trying to come off that drug, and the horrible consequences of even the slowest tapers.

That your doctor wants to rip you off the lithium and add a more dangerous drug (lithium is dangerous enough) is cause for concern.  I don't believe this doctor has your best interests in mind, she is more concerned with controlling you than helping you.  It's not her fault - she was trained to "help" by drugging.

 

****i didn’t fill the zyprexa scrip - all good.  

 

Quote

 

Have you had blood tests that indicate you need to come off the lithium?
*****My last test, a week ago was 1.40 mmol/L.   Should be around .60-1.00
I'm very concerned about this doctor's desire to cold switch you from one bad drug to a worse drug.

 

****this dr is allowing me to control my benzo taper.  I’ve gone through 7 psychiatrists who have tried to rapid taper me.   Been there done that.  Yes she has faults (I can control those...ie decline zyprexa and keep her as a doc without dropping me.   It is nearly impossible  to find a psychiatrist that understands the bw. 

Quote

 

With lithium, it is vitally important that you stay hydrated.  Probably 8-10 glasses of water per day, plus electrolytes (that's minerals).  You can get them in a Hydrolyte or Pedialyte drink, or even Gatorade.  What I prefer to do is at 1/2 tsp of Himalayan salt to one of my glasses of water.  Do not use regular or iodized salt, as it is pure and refined and can be toxic.  Rough sea salt or Himalayan salt has a broad array of minerals to revitalise your kidneys and help your tissues absorb the water.

 

**** drink every bit of 10 glasses of water daily.  Will add Himalayan salt. 

 

Quote

 

 

Keep using it.  These aren't like food, you eat it, and say, "I've tried that." 

 

They are tools.  The more you use them, the more skilled you become.  

When you use them over and over and over, they become a practice.  When they are a practice, they offer you resilience against the next storm, and you flex your muscles of concentration and mindfulness, so that when the next disaster strikes, then you can reflexively reach for your tools, and they help.  You will find, as you listen to them over and over, that you will begin to anticipate what is being said, that you will memorise the technique - and this repetition creates great comfort when you need help.

 

 

I do not see the lithium in your signature.  Please update your signature - mods have asked for this several times.  Please include the lithium, including how long you've been on it.
****added lithium to signature.  Oversite.  I’ve abided by what the mods have asked for.  Don’t recall them asking for lithium Info multiple times.  My apologies.  
You have been taking 900 mg lithium for how long?

***** since 8/23/17

Quote

 

What are the results from your blood tests?
****Updated signature
This is important:  if your doctor does not give you your blood tests, then ask her office for a copy - keep track of your OWN blood tests.  Learn what things mean, and observe the changes.

 

****i have records in an app with the doc/hospital 

 

Having a "bad report" on a lithium blood test is nothing to be snorted at.

I know you are struggling with stabilisation - that's never a good time to change drugs - but - if you don't - you may end up in dialysis.

 

RIGHT NOW start a protocol of hydration, like I said above.  You cannot drink too much water on lithium.  If you were in a town which had natural lithium water, you would have to drink 846 litres of water for each dose of lithium.  So - are you drinking enough water?  I'm not suggesting that you need to drink 846 litres - I'm simply talking about how vitally important it is for you to hydrate.  I would try 10 glasses / day, with one of those glasses including Himalayan or sea salt.  START THIS RIGHT NOW. 
****ok

Get your blood tests, and tell us what result that your doctor was concerned about.  Was it liver?  Kidneys?  I got very sick on lithium - and it didn't show up in the tests.  So - if it is showing up on your tests, it is vitally important that you know what and why.  It may be vitally important to reduce the lithium more quickly than we usually advise.

Your doctor will taper it too fast.  I found that my symptoms improved when I got down to 50% of my original dose.  It may be that the blood test is a mistake, an error, a one-off - but we have to take it seriously.

 

If it were me, I would drop 25% of the lithium right away, and ask for a retesting next month.

 

 

 

*****can I split the pill? I have Lithium Carbonate ER 450MG TB

 

Quote

When you crack open your tablets, they will become immediate release (instead of time release) so you will want to take 2 doses per day.  If it were me, I would take 450 in the morning and 225 at night.  It is very risky to cut the lithium too quickly.  This, coupled with your new hydration routine might get your blood tests back to normal. 

 

 Also important:  do not drink any alcohol at this time.  It will make things harder on your liver.  This also goes for tylenol, and if it's your kidneys, NSAIDs.  This is why it's important to know whether it is your liver or kidneys, or even your thyroid.

****no alcohol for 3 yrs.  I take occasional Tylenol 

I know this is a lot of stuff.  I'll summarize:

 

1.  Start hydrating right now.  

2.  Get your blood test - lab report from your doctor.  Report here what is "out of range"

3.  Taper 25% of your lithium to 450 am and 225 pm.

4.  Do not drink alcohol, none, not at all.  Do not take tylenol, none, not at all.  Do not take NSAIDS, none, not at all  (this may be adjusted when you learn about your lab reports).

5.  Ask your doctor for a re-testing of your blood in a month's time.
 

and consider

 

 

6.  Think about getting a different doctor.     We have 2 suggestions for your area:  

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/14971-recommended-doctors-therapists-and-clinics/?do=findComment&comment=182542

 

and 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/14971-recommended-doctors-therapists-and-clinics/?do=findComment&comment=217967

 

I understand you may have insurance and payment issues - but - it can get worse, it may be worth it to sacrifice the money to get good help.

 

MOST IMPORTANTLY:

 

7.  BREATHE - find a way to be curious about your symptoms, talk to your symptoms, learn about your symptoms - and know that it is temporary and will pass.

 

I hope you see the sun today!

 

 

 

****my doctor wants me to taper 450mg every two weeks.   Per what you mentioned I’ll drop 25%.   How should I drop?  Every two week, etc?

Edited March 22, 2018 by JanCarol
clarity of quotes

[JanCarol]

Hey Dabhob - 

 

You don't need to quote the whole post - this is getting very bulky and hard to see where your answers are.  I don't know what kind of a device you are using, but it's possible to highlight just the important part, and quote only that.

 

I don't think it's wise to taper every 2 weeks, because it takes at least 3 weeks for your neurotransmitters to adjust to a change.

 

This is a slower taper than your doctor's orders - which is why it is so important to get your blood tests to find out what's wrong and how serious this is.  This is also why it is so important to ask your doctor for a re-test in a month's time.  If she asks why you did it slowly, just say, "I didn't want to go crazy."  Have you ever had a documented "manic episode" before?  Doc is under the impression that her Zyprexa will prevent manic episodes, but that is not a drug you want to take, except in the direst of conditions, and then only short term.

 

6 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

*****My last test, a week ago was 1.40 mmol/L.   Should be around .60-1.00

 

What test is this?  Lithium levels?  CRP?  Something else?  Without the context of what lab test this is, I cannot tell how serious this "out of range" amount is.  I'm not a lab tech or a doctor - so I can't divine what test it is just based on the ranges.  If this is a lithium level test, has your doctor been testing for kidney and liver function as well?  What about thyroid?  These are all things which need to be monitored when someone is taking lithium.  Getting your tests on an app is pretty brilliant!  (I guess I'm old-fashioned with my paper copies!)

 

Let's see how the first 25% drop goes before we figure out what is next.  Please keep notes about your symptoms, and we will see how this first taper goes.   I'm encouraged that you have been on this drug for less than a year - so we might get away with a more rapid drop and be able to comply better to doctor's wishes.

 

Do you have any symptoms of kidney or liver problems?  Problems with urinary tract, or yellowing skin, or sore eyes (sign of dehydration)?  

 

Quote

What are the signs and symptoms of mild to moderate lithium toxicity?

• Nausea and vomiting
• Abdominal pain or diarrhea
• Shakiness, especially in your hands
• Muscle weakness
• Lack of coordination of fingers, hands, arms, legs, or body
• Confusion
• Drowsiness
• Slurred speech
• Increased thirst
  From drugs.com

 

Please remember to hydrate, that's the most important thing of all.

 

I'm sorry about getting snippy about asking for signature update - I'm afraid I got you confused with someone else.  I was surprised to see that lithium was not in your signature, though!

Yes, you can break your 450 mg tablets.  They then become immediate release so that is why you will be taking it twice a day, 450 in the morning and 225 at night.  I did my whole 2 year taper by breaking tablets.

 

You've expressed a lot of distress with your benzo taper, and that's why I'm being cautious with the lithium taper.  Please hold your benzo taper while you are reducing the lithium.

 

I hope you see the sun today!

[Shep]

On 3/21/2018 at 3:37 AM, JanCarol said:

I know this is a lot of stuff.  I'll summarize:

 

1.  Start hydrating right now.  

2.  Get your blood test - lab report from your doctor.  Report here what is "out of range"

3.  Taper 25% of your lithium to 450 am and 225 pm.

4.  Do not drink alcohol, none, not at all.  Do not take tylenol, none, not at all.  Do not take NSAIDS, none, not at all  (this may be adjusted when you learn about your lab reports).

5.  Ask your doctor for a re-testing of your blood in a month's time.

 

Dabhob, I received your PM but I'm responding here on your thread. 

 

The above 5 items are what we need from you. We still don't know exactly what is out of range with your bloodwork (you wrote "1.40 mmol/L"  but didn't say what that was a measurement of). 

 

You can start reducing the lithium. JC left you instructions:

 

5 hours ago, JanCarol said:

Yes, you can break your 450 mg tablets.  They then become immediate release so that is why you will be taking it twice a day, 450 in the morning and 225 at night.  I did my whole 2 year taper by breaking tablets.

 

Please ask any questions you have about this. 

[Dabhob33]

3/21/18

1230am - woke up burning

2 - woke up - slight panic

630 - woke up

Kids Home - snow day

8 - 5mg valium / eye drops / breakfast 

9 - snow blowed the driveway - low energy, agitated (I feel like such a complainer). 

12 - lunch / took 675mg Lithium (see JanCarol post)

1 - spoke with someone who made it through Benzo / Flox Withdrawal.  Uplifting. 

3 - 325mg Tylenol

5 - dinner

Lethargic day, very agitated and restless 

Anxiety in chest, feel very detached from family.  

930 -  eye drops 

10 - 5.5mg valium 

1030 - sleep 

3/22/18

130am - awoke - sliver of doxy

7 - woke - decent night of sleep.  Woke up anxious

[Dabhob33]

6 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Dabhob, I received your PM but I'm responding here on your thread. 

 

The above 5 items are what we need from you. We still don't know exactly what is out of range with your bloodwork (you wrote "1.40 mmol/L"  but didn't say what that was a measurement of). 

 

You can start reducing the lithium. JC left you instructions:

 

 

Please ask any questions you have about this. 

 

1.  Start hydrating right now.  

2.  Get your blood test - lab report from your doctor.  Report here what is "out of range"

3.  Taper 25% of your lithium to 450 am and 225 pm.

4.  Do not drink alcohol, none, not at all.  Do not take tylenol, none, not at all.  Do not take NSAIDS, none, not at all  (this may be adjusted when you learn about your lab reports).

5.  Ask your doctor for a re-testing of your blood in a month's time

 

1) I am drinking 15 glasses of water.  Bought Himalayan salts.    

2) The results are for “lithium serum levels” per my psychiatrist.   Didn’t answer whether for liver or kidneys.   Won’t send actual results.   Frustrating.   I’m not trying to be difficult.

3) started taper yesterday.  How often do I drop.   Again, my doctor says weekly.  

4) I’ll stop pain relievers.  

5) will get blood work.  

 

Honestly, if dropping lithium is too much and may cause more issues mentally, I’d rather hold on the medicine for the time being.  I don’t want to do anything further that’s going to cause more issues or pain mentally.    

6 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Dabhob, I received your PM but I'm responding here on your thread. 

 

The above 5 items are what we need from you. We still don't know exactly what is out of range with your bloodwork (you wrote "1.40 mmol/L"  but didn't say what that was a measurement of). 

 

You can start reducing the lithium. JC left you instructions:

 

 

Please ask any questions you have about this. 

 

[Dabhob33]

I purchased this salt.  All good?  

Sherpa Pink Himalayan Salt, 2lbs Extra-Fine Grain https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IZL255O/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_D--SAbYNR72DS

[Dabhob33]

   I took 450mg lithium at noon.    I would take my 225mg at 9pm before bed.   Do you think I should go back to 900mg and hold or continue the drop?   I’m willing to take my chances with the lithium levels.    I really am not feeling well mentally (reason for holding valium) and don’t want to upset things further by yanking away another drug (after coming off of pristiq in Jan 2017).    I would come off lithium eventually, but not at the moment.  I read the thread regarding lithium withdrawal here on SA.  

 

[ChessieCat]

On 3/21/2018 at 6:37 PM, JanCarol said:

Do not take tylenol, none, not at all.  Do not take NSAIDS, none, not at all  (this may be adjusted when you learn about your lab reports).

 

7 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

3 - 325mg Tylenol

 

[Dabhob33]

Understood 

[Altostrata]

On 3/20/2018 at 6:11 PM, Dabhob33 said:

My psychiatrist followed up with me today to ensure I dropped the lithium (concern over blood test results) bc I told her I was hesitant.  What do I do? 

 

"concern over blood test results" does not sound like "normal range." You need more information, and she should give it to you.

 

Is changing the lithium dosage justified? I am concerned that you are making yet more drug changes. This makes it more and more difficult for us peer counselors.

[Dabhob33]

I 100% agree with you.  I’m sorry.   Thought I shared the levels.    The psychiatrist just said I was at 1.40 mmol/L and safe range was .60-1.00 mmol/L.  And that it isn’t a measurement of anything related specifically to liver or kidney.  Just that serum levels over 1.00 could start adversely affecting those organs.   It’s interesting bc she’s usually trying to add meds, not reduce.   Really not trying to make it difficult for you all.   Thank you for your help.  

 

[Dabhob33]

3/22/18

130am - awoke - sliver of doxy

7 - woke - decent night of sleep

8 - breakfast

Speaking with individual who succeeded in coming off benzos

Noon - lunch 

2 - pick up Kids 

230 - daughter therapy

Very nervous about coming off lithium.   I’ll be “live without a net” coming off valium.   Irrational thinking?   something to it?

3 - lithium 675mg

930 -  eye drops 

10 - 5.5mg valium / sliver doxy

1030 - sleep 

3/23/18

630am - woke - anxious

kids fighting - major trigger

[Dabhob33]

15 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

"concern over blood test results" does not sound like "normal range." You need more information, and she should give it to you.

 

Is changing the lithium dosage justified? I am concerned that you are making yet more drug changes. This makes it more and more difficult for us peer counselors.

I can stay on 900mg.   Personally, I don’t want to upset things with how I feel any further as I stabilize and work my way down on valium.   

[Dabhob33]

On 3/22/2018 at 12:36 AM, JanCarol said:

Hey Dabhob - 

 

You don't need to quote the whole post - this is getting very bulky and hard to see where your answers are.  I don't know what kind of a device you are using, but it's possible to highlight just the important part, and quote only that.

 

I don't think it's wise to taper every 2 weeks, because it takes at least 3 weeks for your neurotransmitters to adjust to a change.

 

This is a slower taper than your doctor's orders - which is why it is so important to get your blood tests to find out what's wrong and how serious this is.  This is also why it is so important to ask your doctor for a re-test in a month's time.  If she asks why you did it slowly, just say, "I didn't want to go crazy."  Have you ever had a documented "manic episode" before?  Doc is under the impression that her Zyprexa will prevent manic episodes, but that is not a drug you want to take, except in the direst of conditions, and then only short term.

 

 

What test is this?  Lithium levels?  CRP?  Something else?  Without the context of what lab test this is, I cannot tell how serious this "out of range" amount is.  I'm not a lab tech or a doctor - so I can't divine what test it is just based on the ranges.  If this is a lithium level test, has your doctor been testing for kidney and liver function as well?  What about thyroid?  These are all things which need to be monitored when someone is taking lithium.  Getting your tests on an app is pretty brilliant!  (I guess I'm old-fashioned with my paper copies!)

 

Let's see how the first 25% drop goes before we figure out what is next.  Please keep notes about your symptoms, and we will see how this first taper goes.   I'm encouraged that you have been on this drug for less than a year - so we might get away with a more rapid drop and be able to comply better to doctor's wishes.

 

Do you have any symptoms of kidney or liver problems?  Problems with urinary tract, or yellowing skin, or sore eyes (sign of dehydration)?  

 

 

Please remember to hydrate, that's the most important thing of all.

 

I'm sorry about getting snippy about asking for signature update - I'm afraid I got you confused with someone else.  I was surprised to see that lithium was not in your signature, though!

Yes, you can break your 450 mg tablets.  They then become immediate release so that is why you will be taking it twice a day, 450 in the morning and 225 at night.  I did my whole 2 year taper by breaking tablets.

 

You've expressed a lot of distress with your benzo taper, and that's why I'm being cautious with the lithium taper.  Please hold your benzo taper while you are reducing the lithium.

 

I hope you see the sun today!

JanCarol: Have you ever had a documented "manic episode" before? 

I have not had a manic episode

[Dabhob33]

1 hour ago, Dabhob33 said:

3/22/18

130am - awoke - sliver of doxy

7 - woke - decent night of sleep

8 - breakfast

Speaking with individual who succeeded in coming off benzos

Noon - lunch 

2 - pick up Kids 

230 - daughter therapy

Very nervous about coming off lithium.   I’ll be “live without a net” coming off valium.   Irrational thinking?   something to it?

3 - lithium 675mg

930 -  eye drops 

10 - 5.5mg valium / sliver doxy

1030 - sleep 

3/23/18

630am - woke - anxious

kids fighting - major trigger

Made a mistake with my lithium dosing yesterday.  Will do 450 in am and 225 in pm

[JanCarol]

10 minutes ago, Dabhob33 said:

I have not had a manic episode

 

Excellent.  That bodes well for a potentially faster taper!

 

One day of taking all the lithium at once is okay, but in about 4 days, you will start to have drop outs from the broken tablet, as it is not time release anymore.

Let us know how the morning lithium goes - if it is sedating, or numbing, or anything - we may switch it and put the small dose in the morning.

 

I hope you see the sun today!

 

[Dabhob33]

It’s strange.   I feel anxious, yet more depressed than normal this AM

[Dabhob33]

I’m sorry, what is a “drop out”?

[JanCarol]

Just now, Dabhob33 said:

I feel very depressed.  

 

When my p-doc wanted to put me on lithium, I said - but I'm mostly depressed!  She quoted some study about lithium being "good for bipolar depression," but I found that it was numbing, took away all my care about anything (whether it was important or not, I just didn't care), and was depressing.  Then, when my kidneys started to fail, and my body was having toxic reactions (strange skin disorders, fatty liver, adrenal fatigue), it was even more depressing.

 

So - sadly, 'depressing' is normal on this drug.  (But rest assured that Zyprexa is probably even more depressing!)

 

Still waiting to hear - that lab test - what it was about.

"drop out" is when the drug runs out.  Normal half life of lithium is about 12 hours, which means that after 12 hours it starts wearing off.  Quilonum QR has a 24 hour half life, so you can take it once a day.  But immediate release will wear off sooner.

 

I hope you see the sun today!

[Dabhob33]

My diagnosis is Depression, GAD, PTSD, 

[Dabhob33]

Thank you.  

 

So brace myself for the drop?   

 

 I’m not getting any more info from the psych re the lab test.    Other than it was 1.40 mmol/L  (range should be .60-1.00).   Don’t know what to do here.  Said high levels could affect the liver and kidney.  

 

Zyprexa is not an option. 

 

I’m just nervous that I feel so bad now as it is and I’m coming off another medicine while we try to stabilize the valium before restarting the taper.    I’d like to keep the lithium and come off after the valium.   Already came off the pristiq in Jan 2018.  

 

Feeling extremely anxious.   

[Dabhob33]

JanCarol - have you been on a benzo?   Just checking.  I think I know the answer, but Is there a med I could consider as I come off the Lithium?  Already feel depressed and anxious from the valium.  Just worried the lithium drop may be too much without some help.  

 

I have and am working the non-med coping skills.  

[Shep]

32 minutes ago, Dabhob33 said:

Is there a med I could consider as I come off the Lithium?

 

Hi, Dabhob. I do understand the difficulty of your situation, however, we are not doctors here and therefore cannot recommend drugs. If you do start adding in drugs, you'll have to work with your doctor. We won't be able to help you here. We're a site for helping people taper off these drugs and that's all we're qualified to do. 

 

It's quite possible you may feel better as you reduce the Lithium. Please re-read the posts that JanCarol has left you, especially her comment about lithium causing depression.

 

41 minutes ago, Dabhob33 said:

I have and am working the non-med coping skills.  

 

This is great. By the time you've tapered off all of your drugs, you will be a warrior at these kinds of skills. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen right away and the symptoms of withdrawal can be very extreme, but as long as you're building up a toolbox of skills that you find helpful, you're making a lot of progress.  

 

Please consider this concept when withdrawal starts throwing those dark thoughts your way. This will get better, but it's going to take time. 

[Dabhob33]

On 3/21/2018 at 5:51 PM, Dabhob33 said:

 

****i didn’t fill the zyprexa scrip - all good.  

 

 

****this dr is allowing me to control my benzo taper.  I’ve gone through 7 psychiatrists who have tried to rapid taper me.   Been there done that.  Yes she has faults (I can control those...ie decline zyprexa and keep her as a doc without dropping me.   It is nearly impossible  to find a psychiatrist that understands the bw. 

 

**** drink every bit of 10 glasses of water daily.  Will add Himalayan salt. 

 

***** since 8/23/17

 

*****can I split the pill? I have Lithium Carbonate ER 450MG TB

 

 

****my doctor wants me to taper 450mg every two weeks.   Per what you mentioned I’ll drop 25%.   How should I drop?  Every two week, etc?

I apologize if this is redundant, but I wanted to point out that I had taken a 500mg Levaquin pill on 6/16/16.   I keep a journal.   Prior to that date, I was withdrawaing from the benzo and doing pretty good.   I was looking at buying a business and faring well (not great, but functioning). Then I took that pill.   I had diarrhea for over a month and my anxiety / ruminating went through the roof.   Hasn’t been the same since.   May be a coincidence.  But just want to include in my story.  Interested in any input.    Thank you. 

[Dabhob33]

I see I included this in my introduction story. 

[Dabhob33]

The saga continues....my psychiatrist talked to her colleagues (a nephrologist) and determined that I can stay on the lithium.   My head is spinning.  Ugh.   She says it’s up to me.   

 

I took 675mg Wed and Thurs.   

 

i could take 900mg today and be back on schedule.   I’d prefer to attack valium first and then lithium at a later date.    I’m open to your input.  

 

And I’m going to put a call into the psychiatrist (Adan) you listed in the link the other day.   However, just so happens she’s in the same system as my current psychiatrist. 😲 

 

 

[Shep]

37 minutes ago, Dabhob33 said:

I apologize if this is redundant, but I wanted to point out that I had taken a 500mg Levaquin pill on 6/16/16.  

 

Please place the fact that you "took one 500 mg Levaquin pill on 6/16/16" in your signature. That is an important factor.

 

The antibiotics that people in benzo withdrawal should avoid if possible are the fluoroquinolone antibiotics, as they affect the same receptors cites as benzos. Many people have severe setbacks. These class of antibiotics actually displace benzodiazepines from their binding sites on GABA receptors and can precipitate acute withdrawal in people taking or tapering from benzodiazepines. They can be dangerous for people who aren't on benzos, as well. 

 

Here is more information:

 

http://www.saferpills.org/

 

And for people with current or even prior benzo use, they are particularly dangerous - 

 

Benzodiazepine tolerance, dependency, and withdrawal syndromes and interactions with fluoroquinolone antimicrobials

 

Many people have been floxed by this kind of antibiotic and still gone onto heal from benzo withdrawal. 

 

I have the fluoroquinolone antibiotics listed as an allergy in my medical records. I encourage other benzo survivors to do the same. There are many other safer antibiotics that can be used instead. 

 

4 minutes ago, Dabhob33 said:

The saga continues....my psychiatrist talked to her colleagues (a nephrologist) and determined that I can stay on the lithium.   My head is spinning.  Ugh.   She says it’s up to me.   

 

I took 675mg Wed and Thurs.   

 

i could take 900mg today and be back on schedule.

 

Yes, you can return to the 900 mg since it was only two days with a decreased amount. 

 

Please avoid taking over-the-counter meds unless absolutely necessary. I'm wondering if that may have caused some problems with your bloodwork. Now that you know not to take tylenol and NSAIDs, you may want to have your blood re-tested next month to see if there are improvements. 

[Dabhob33]

17 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

Please place the fact that you "took one 500 mg Levaquin pill on 6/16/16" in your signature. That is an important factor.

 

The antibiotics that people in benzo withdrawal should avoid if possible are the fluoroquinolone antibiotics, as they affect the same receptors cites as benzos. Many people have severe setbacks. These class of antibiotics actually displace benzodiazepines from their binding sites on GABA receptors and can precipitate acute withdrawal in people taking or tapering from benzodiazepines. They can be dangerous for people who aren't on benzos, as well. 

 

Here is more information:

 

http://www.saferpills.org/

 

And for people with current or even prior benzo use, they are particularly dangerous - 

 

Benzodiazepine tolerance, dependency, and withdrawal syndromes and interactions with fluoroquinolone antimicrobials

 

Many people have been floxed by this kind of antibiotic and still gone onto heal from benzo withdrawal. 

 

I have the fluoroquinolone antibiotics listed as an allergy in my medical records. I encourage other benzo survivors to do the same. There are many other safer antibiotics that can be used instead. 

 

 

Yes, you can return to the 900 mg since it was only two days with a decreased amount. 

 

Please avoid taking over-the-counter meds unless absolutely necessary. I'm wondering if that may have caused some problems with your bloodwork. Now that you know not to take tylenol and NSAIDs, you may want to have your blood re-tested next month to see if there are improvements. 

Yes...wish I knew about the dangers of Levaquin and the like before taking.   I to the point of paranoia when it comes to medicine now.  Hyper vigalint.   Will add to my signature.  

 

Ok.  Will start back at 900mg lithium.  

 

Will only take doxy when absolutely necessary.  

 

Will get blood tested. 

[Dabhob33]

3/23/18

630am - woke - anxious

8 - 5mg valium / eye drops 

930 - ophthalmology appt - glaucoma - site in left eye diminishing.  Anxious. 

Feeling extremely anxious and depressed.   Burning.  

11 - tried taking a nap ( headache).  Woke in panic

12 - lunch - 450mg Lithium 

Feel out of body, depressed, heavy head 

2 - pick up son from school

Took son to Target and Panera.   Very agitated

Burning

5 - dinner - determined I will stay on 900 mg lithium for now

6 - dozed off for 20 mins and woke up burning 

8 - 450mg Lithium 

930 -  eye drops 

10 - 5.5mg valium 

1130 - sleep 

3/24/18

630am - awoke anxious