Dabhob33: introduction

[Dabhob33]

3/23/18

630am - woke - anxious

8 - 5mg valium / eye drops 

930 - ophthalmology appt - glaucoma - site in left eye diminishing.  Anxious. 

Feeling extremely anxious and depressed.   Burning.  

11 - tried taking a nap ( headache).  Woke in panic

12 - lunch - 450mg Lithium 

Feel out of body, depressed, heavy head 

2 - pick up son from school

Took son to Target and Panera.   Very agitated

Burning

5 - dinner - determined I will stay on 900 mg valium for now

6 - dozed off for 20 mins and woke up burning 

8 - 450mg Lithium 

930 -  eye drops 

10 - 5.5mg valium 

1130 - sleep 

3/24/18

630am - awoke anxious

[Dabhob33]

Observation:

The two days I was on 675mg Lithium my head didn’t feel as heavy.   Yesterday and today I feel very heavy headed.  Slow.   And very agitated (moreso than normal).  Could  this just be a coincidence?

 

Received the Himalayan Salt today.  Took first spoonful with water (daily as suggested).  

[Dabhob33]

My 11 yr old daughter has taken my “journey” the hardest in our household.  She’s extremely angry and depressed.  She was diagnosed ADD when she was 7 and has tried every related drug.   She s even tried Wellbutrin (for a year)  and lamictal most recently.   She is now off all drugs.   

 

Her anger and depression and attention issues have only gotten worse.  My wife wants her to go on an AD or mood stabilizer.   I refuse to put her on meds, but I am not sure what to do.   Are there any resources you could recommend?     I’m involved in NAMI.  

Appreciate any insight.  Not sure if this falls within this group’s mission or perview.   

Dabhob33

Edited March 25, 2018 by Dabhob33

[ChessieCat]

The thing to consider is that she may be experiencing protracted withdrawal from the drugs she has previously been on.

 

If you google survivingantidepressants.org adhd your will find some articles on this site.

 

I also suggest google peter breggin adhd because he his a non-prescribing psychiatrist.

 

and peter breggin prescribe drugs brings up some good hits.

[JanCarol]

Hey Dabhob - 

 

On 3/23/2018 at 3:35 AM, Dabhob33 said:

2) The results are for “lithium serum levels” per my psychiatrist.   Didn’t answer whether for liver or kidneys.   Won’t send actual results.   Frustrating.   I’m not trying to be difficult.

 

OK - yes, lithium serum levels are to indicate whether you are in the "therapeutic" or "toxic" range.  I have found that there are levels below the therapeutic range which are still helpful (though my p-doc disagreed, and refused to test me once I got too low.)

 

You are above the therapeutic range, which means your doctor has overdrugged you.

 

This is not a test of liver or kidneys.  If your doctor has not tested your thyroid, liver or kidneys then please request these blood tests when you request your lithium serum test again next month.

There is information about the risks of lithium here: http://psycheducation.org/treatment/mood-stabilizers/the-big-three-for-bipolar-depression/lithium/lithium-risks/ 

and you will see that you have been on it for less than a year, so you are not at as much risk for kidney damage as someone who has been on it for 10 years.

 

It is curious that your former dose - 900 mg (sometimes people are on as much as 2000 mg) - is registering so high, as if you are not metabolising it properly.  So there is still good reason to keep drinking water.  Drinking water will also serve as a mild taper, as it will dilute the lithium salts a little bit.

 

So you have been on 3/4 your regular dose for ( ?? )  days now, you should start feeling the difference.   Wait - what?  You are back on 900 mg?  I'm consulting with Shep about that and see what is best.

 

On 3/24/2018 at 12:57 AM, Dabhob33 said:

My diagnosis is Depression, GAD, PTSD, 

 

There's a word that a member, NZ11, coined called "Diag-nonsense."  These are ticks in a box and cubbyholes that help a p-doc determine what drugs to give you - and have little or nothing to do with your actual suffering.

I encourage you to avoid diag-nonsense words, and use actual words.  Instead of saying "anxiety," say, "I am afraid to leave the house."  Instead of saying PTSD, say PTS - that you went through a trauma does not mean that you have a disease or disorder.  When you talk about your PTSD, you can talk about how "This event reminded me of my original trauma, and it rattled my nervous system and churned my stomach, and a flash of burning went across my body."

The more descriptive you can get with your emotions and experiences, the better you will heal.

 

11 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

Observation:

The two days I was on 675mg Lithium my head didn’t feel as heavy.   Yesterday and today I feel very heavy headed.  Slow.   And very agitated (moreso than normal).  Could  this just be a coincidence?

   

This sounds like lithium symptoms.  Normally, it would take 4 days for you to start to "lighten up" as your blood plasma changes.

 

I am so sorry, I am thinking that the up-dose to 900 mg is a mistake (I'm not sure why we did that?), until we get new blood tests from your doctor.  I am sorry to bounce you up and down - I will let you decide.  If the 675 felt better, then I suggest you go with that, and hold there until you get new blood tests.  I am concerned about your high lithium levels, and it can't help with your valium withdrawal to be numb, soupy, heavy, and wrapped in cotton wool.

Did you ask if I have used benzos?  I have used benzos, in the distant past.  I wanted to get a "just in case" Valium script - in the event that tapering my lithium sent me into full blown manic episode.  I wanted to use the Valium  (short term, 5 days only)  as a minor tranquilliser to "knock me down," since manic episodes are dangerous and can wreck your whole life.  I wanted to have the script on hand, as I might not be able to get to the p-doc in time, if I "flipped out."  The p-doc refused, and I got through my taper without any benzo, without "flipping out" at all.  Benzos are a slippery slope, and I don't recommend them, ever; the rebound anxiety from benzos can be up to 10x more than the original problem.

 

5 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

My 11 yr old daughter has taken my “journey” the hardest in our household.  She’s extremely angry and depressed.  She was diagnosed ADD when she was 7 and has tried every related drug.   She s even tried Wellbutrin (for a year)  and lamictal most recently.   She is now off all drugs.   

 

Her anger and depression and attention issues have only gotten worse.  My wife wants her to go on an AD or mood stabilizer.   I refuse to put her on meds, but I am not sure what to do.   Are there any resources you could recommend?     I’m involved in NAMI.  

 

NAMI is very pro-drugging, as they are a grass roots organisation funded and supported by pharmaceutical companies.  (ref:  Robert Whitaker, "Anatomy of an Epidemic")

I would also encourage your daughter to not use diag-nonsense words, as they take away her responsibility for her own behaviours.  Instead of saying, "It's just my ADHD" she needs to say, "I'm really restless," or "I don't want to go in there, I'm afraid of . . . "  or "I hate school,  nobody seems to like me."  Find out what is distressing her, and work on solutions - whether internal for her - or external with school and teachers.  Acting out is often a symptom of a distress or conflict which she will have trouble putting to words.  It's hard for adults to put these things into words!  How much harder to be a child and struggling with these intense feelings?  Encourage her to use art and journalling to express herself.  Allow her journal total privacy, but offer the opportunity for her to share her insights verbally with you once she's worked them out.  

 

I strongly recommend daily magnesium baths, as that's what the natural folks use for full-blown autism here.  You can use Epsom Salts or Magnesium Chloride, or both - depending on what is available to you.  Epsom Salts is cheaper, but I have a good bulk supplier of Mag Chloride which makes it so that I can have 2-4 cups of salt in a bath and it is really calming.  The bathwater should be as close to body temperature as possible for absorption (a little warmer for comfort is fine).  If this is all that she needs, then you may go to an "as needed" basis.  (you might benefit from magnesium baths, too - I compare a good Mag chloride bath with a small dose of valium - only it is nourishing instead of depleting!).

 

There is a lot being done here in Australia - and America too - with dietary interventions for ADD.  Heal the gut, heal the mind, settle the nerves.  There is a special department at a University in Melbourne for gut-mind health.  The GAPS protocol is a good place to start - it's also important to cut gluten (something like 40% of autistic children saw huge improvement by eliminating wheat and gluten), as it is irritating to the gut.  Bone broth is soothing and heals the gut.  No more pizzas, pasta, McDonald's!  She may protest, but as she starts to feel better, she will soon be attracted to the foods that help her feel well.  It's tough to do an elimination diet on a youngster, so maybe allow for an occasional treat (but make note of what the treat does to/for her behaviour) so that she can "be like other kids."  Healthy fats like avocados, coconut oils, grass fed butter and grass fed meats are important to bringing her brain and nervous system to a calmer place.

Here's a GAPS plan to start: https://draxe.com/gaps-diet-plan-protocol/

She will need coping tools, too - Chessie's suggestion of Dr. Peter Breggin is an excellent one.  Here is a book for  Drug Free ADD

 

These simple protocols are just the beginning, you will probably need professional support to give your daughter the tools she needs to adjust.  It's not easy!  This is why so many parents (and teachers) just reach for the tablets instead of trying to find out what is really the problem.

I agree with all of this article - especially the micronutrients, aminos and natural supplements - but I do not agree with homeopathy, which is giving sugar pills to your kid:  https://www.alternativementalhealth.com/drug-free-treatment-of-attention-deficit-disorder-add/

Here are some further suggestions:  https://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/brain-and-behavior/articles/2009/08/12/9-drug-free-approaches-to-managing-adhd  - I especially agree with the Omega-3 fatty acids, which I understand do miraculous things in a growing child's and teenagers brain.  Exercise is key, too.  Limiting screen time is vital (did you know that Steve Jobs wouldn't let his kids use tablet or phone?).

And this: http://www.health.com/health/condition-article/0,,20252861,00.html

There is a drug-free clinic in Cleveland which addresses ADD/ADHD:  http://www.insightwellness.org/index.php/about-insight-63  I do not know how successful they are - but - it's worth a try, it looks like they have a large toolkit to design a plan for her.

 

Your instincts to keep her drug free are wise.  Robert Whitaker, in "Anatomy of an Epidemic" describes that children on ADHD drugs have a much higher (5 to 1?) chance of being diagnosed as a bipolar in their teen years.  If you can get a hold of a copy of this book (it is in most libraries) it is an eye-opening read.

Sorry this was so long - I hope you see the sun today!
 

[Shep]

2 hours ago, JanCarol said:

I am so sorry, I am thinking that the up-dose to 900 mg is a mistake (I'm not sure why we did that?), until we get new blood tests from your doctor.  I am sorry to bounce you up and down - I will let you decide.  If the 675 felt better, then I suggest you go with that, and hold there until you get new blood tests.  I am concerned about your high lithium levels, and it can't help with your valium withdrawal to be numb, soupy, heavy, and wrapped in cotton wool.

 

15 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

Observation:

The two days I was on 675mg Lithium my head didn’t feel as heavy.   Yesterday and today I feel very heavy headed.  Slow.   And very agitated (moreso than normal).  Could  this just be a coincidence?

 

Dabhob, I would stay at the 675 mg. I know you mentioned wanting to stay at the full 900 mg since you got the greenlight from your doctor about this, so it's up to you, but JanCarol is making a very good point and you also are reporting that you feel worse now that you're back up to 900 mg. 

[Dabhob33]

3/24/18

630 - awoke anxious

8 - breakfast / 5mg Valium / 3 drops

Noon - chipotle with Sydney (daughter). 

450mg Lithium 

1 - Michael’s craft store - Very agitated 

Daughter expressed a lot of anger with my illness.   Sick of me being sick.   Wants her dad back

3 - teaspoon of Himalayan Salt in 30 oz water - too much?

4 - church - listen to daughter - choir 

5 - my daughter erupted at dinner today - her anger issues are huge.   She’s very angry with me and my illness.  Wants to “rip her brothers eyes out.”   She’s 11 yrs old and already been on Wellbutrin for a year .   Been off for a month. No longer on any medicine.  My wife wants to put her on an AD.    I refuse.  She’s in therapy.  

8 - 450mg Lithium 

930 -  eye drops 

10 - 5.5mg valium 

1130 - sleep

3/25/18

6am - awoke

[Dabhob33]

1 hour ago, Shep said:

 

 

Dabhob, I would stay at the 675 mg. I know you mentioned wanting to stay at the full 900 mg since you got the greenlight from your doctor about this, so it's up to you, but JanCarol is making a very good point and you also are reporting that you feel worse now that you're back up to 900 mg. 

Who suggested I go back up to 900mg?

[Dabhob33]

Just texted my doctor.  She responded immediately.   Wasn’t expected. She’s about to fire me.   Asking why am I changing my mind (“back and forth”) with the Lithium.   I said I didn’t want to rock the boat with coming down on the lithium and she approved staying at 900mg for the time being.   And now I want to go back down on the lithium (675mg).   She mentioned she wants me to start the benzo soon, in the next week.  “Enough holding”.   Ugh!   This is very unlike her.  

[Dabhob33]

I want to come off valium first.  And restart the taper soon.    I plan to hold the lithium at 900mg in the meantime.  

[Shep]

Please re-read your thread, especially JanCarol's posts on lithium. We are concerned you are on too high a dose.

[Dabhob33]

 What would be the plan on coming off the lithium?  Drop 225mg every 2 weeks?  Then restart the valium taper?  

 

But then again, the physician just cleared that I’d be ok to stay on 900mg littlhium as I came off valium.

If staying steady with lithium, Id like to restart my valium taper as soon as possible.   

[JanCarol]

Hey Dabhob - 

 

51 minutes ago, Dabhob33 said:

 What would be the plan on coming off the lithium?  Drop 225mg every 2 weeks?  

 

No.  You would drop 225 mg (just once!), see how that feels for a month and get retested.  (hopefully doc will cooperate)  

 

If the tests are good you could stay at 675 mg.  If you are having strong symptoms, you may not go any further than that.  If you are extremely happy with less lithium, we might drop again, but probably not a full 25%.

 

I'm hoping you will see good results at 675 mg.  And then you can go back to your benzo taper.

 

Does that sound like a good plan?

[Dabhob33]

I’ve been holding my valium taper since 3/15/18.  If I continue to hold the valium taper for a month it would put me at 4/25/18.   Is the length of this hold ok?   I’m not used to holding that long.    

[Dabhob33]

I think I’m going to hold on the lithium.  

[Dabhob33]

The only reason I would drop lithium first is the depression and ahedonia I feel.   And only on it for 8 months.   So perplexed.  

[Shep]

3 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

The only reason I would drop lithium first is the depression and ahedonia I feel.   And only on it for 8 months.   So perplexed.  

 

Below is why you told us you wanted to reduce the lithium. Again, re-read JanCarol's posts about why having these types of levels can be dangerous. 

 

On 3/22/2018 at 6:17 PM, Dabhob33 said:

The psychiatrist just said I was at 1.40 mmol/L and safe range was .60-1.00 mmol/L.  And that it isn’t a measurement of anything related specifically to liver or kidney.  Just that serum levels over 1.00 could start adversely affecting those organs.   It’s interesting bc she’s usually trying to add meds, not reduce.  

 

[Dabhob33]

I understand.   My psych, now, would prefer I come down on the valium first.  She changed her perspective after consulting her colleague re the test and results.  Again, I’ve been through 7 psychs and I’m fearful of getting dropped by her.    

[Dabhob33]

She also points to lithium’s having a positive effect on curtailing suicidal ideation.   I had SI when in started Lithium (main reason I went on).  

[Shep]

10 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

She also points to lithium’s having a positive effect on curtailing suicidal ideation.   I had SI when in started Lithium (main reason I went on).  

 

Lithium blunts emotions for many people. You've had this issue with SI while being on lithium and it seems less about that and more about your inability to sleep. Being able to sleep curtails suicidal ideation. I hope she's going to allow you to do a long hold on the Valium because tapering too quickly from the benzo and an AD after 28 years of use is what CAUSED the suicidal ideation and created a situation where you couldn't sleep. It wasn't a lack of lithium. 

 

And if your kidneys or other organs aren't able to process the high amount of Lithium, you may have another problem on your hands. An article written by a very wise psychiatrist, Dr. Joanna Moncrieff: 

 

Reasons Not to Believe in Lithium

 

In my view the evidence that lithium helps prevent episodes of manic depression is far too weak to outweigh the harms it can cause (which commonly include thyroid damage, kidney damage, and acute neurological toxicity at doses very close to those used in practice, hence the need for blood monitoring). 

 

 

On 3/23/2018 at 1:26 PM, Dabhob33 said:

I see Dr Adan is well versed in anti depressant wd.  Does she have experience with benzo?)

 

You posted this in the Recommended Doctors thread. Have you reached out for an appointment? She's in your city. 

 

If I were you, I would. Any doctor who's aware of antidepressant withdrawal is most likely going to be aware of the benzo epidemic. 

[Dabhob33]

3/25/18

630 - woke

8 - 5mg valium / eye drops 

9 - confused - not sure to take 900mg lithium; psychiatrist wants me to restart valium taper

Laying on couch  

Dozed off and woke up in panic

12 - lunch / 450mg Lithium - friend came over to watch  basketball games 

Anxious with decisions to be made re valium and lithium taper.  

3 - on edge....isolated from my family

6 - dinner 

8 - 450mg Lithium 

930 -  eye drops 

10 - 5.5mg valium 

1130 - tried to sleep 

1am - no sleep - 12.5 doxy

Broken sleep throughout night

 

[Dabhob33]

46 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

Lithium blunts emotions for many people. You've had this issue with SI while being on lithium and it seems less about that and more about your inability to sleep. Being able to sleep curtails suicidal ideation. I hope she's going to allow you to do a long hold on the Valium because tapering too quickly from the benzo and an AD after 28 years of use is what CAUSED the suicidal ideation and created a situation where you couldn't sleep. It wasn't a lack of lithium. 

 

And if your kidneys or other organs aren't able to process the high amount of Lithium, you may have another problem on your hands. An article written by a very wise psychiatrist, Dr. Joanna Moncrieff: 

 

Reasons Not to Believe in Lithium

 

In my view the evidence that lithium helps prevent episodes of manic depression is far too weak to outweigh the harms it can cause (which commonly include thyroid damage, kidney damage, and acute neurological toxicity at doses very close to those used in practice, hence the need for blood monitoring). 

 

 

 

You posted this in the Recommended Doctors thread. Have you reached out for an appointment? She's in your city. 

 

If I were you, I would. Any doctor who's aware of antidepressant withdrawal is most likely going to be aware of the benzo epidemic. 

Long hold on valium?   How long?  When

will I restart?  How long will it take?  What is the process?   

 

I never said I believed in lithium.   Just determining which to come off first.   I want off both.  

[JanCarol]

Hey D - 

 

20 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

I’ve been holding my valium taper since 3/15/18.  If I continue to hold the valium taper for a month it would put me at 4/25/18.   Is the length of this hold ok?   I’m not used to holding that long.    

 

19 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

I think I’m going to hold on the lithium.  

 

I had an inspiration tonight.

 

I imagined a conversation between you and your doctor, that goes like this.

P-doc:  "I said it was ok to take full dose of lithium"
 

YOU:  "But that blood test really scared me, and I felt better at 675.  I don't want to go all the way off, just down to a lower dose and see if that makes my blood tests better"

P-Doc "But I really want to get you off of the Valium"

 

You:  "I agree, you're right - I really want to get off of the Valium too, but let me see how this lithium thing will go, and I'll probably feel better for reducing the valium after that."  (P-docs love to hear that they are right, say it at every possible opportunity)

 

In short, yes it is fine to hold for a month.  You aren't really holding, as you are are tapering the lithium for that month.

 

* * *

I had SI on lithium, too.  And I was so anhedonic (numb, no feelings) that I didn't have any fear or concern about my SI, which had gone as far as very precise plans.  You might use that in the conversation, too:  "I didn't have SI until I was on the Lithium"

 

You have likely been prescribed the lithium as "adjunct therapy" - an add-on to make your antidepressant more effective.  This is not exactly a lie, but it's not exactly true, either.  Lithium just numbs out a lot of antidepressant side effects and robs you of motivation to complain.

 

What you are describing here:

On 3/25/2018 at 4:48 AM, Dabhob33 said:

Observation:

The two days I was on 675mg Lithium my head didn’t feel as heavy.   Yesterday and today I feel very heavy headed.  Slow.   And very agitated (moreso than normal).  Could  this just be a coincidence?

 

Sounds a lot like an overload of lithium.  It's better to lower it now to prevent toxicity later - it will make your lithium taper easier later, too.
 

It's your choice, always.  You are in charge of your own body, and your own choices.  I'll bet your p-doc won't tell you that!

 

I hope you see the sun today!

 

[Dabhob33]

Thank you JanCarol.   I’ll go to 675mg after talk with doctor.   Do you have any thoughts on when I might begin taper of valium?   The valium depresses me as well.  Big time.  Yet feel anxious.  

[Dabhob33]

Pharmacist said I shouldn’t be splitting the lithium carbonate 450mg ER pill.   I’m going to have my psych send in a lower dose.   The pharmacist said I shouldn’t have split it.  

[Dabhob33]

2 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

Pharmacist said I shouldn’t be splitting the lithium carbonate 450mg ER pill.   I’m going to have my psych send in a lower dose.   The pharmacist said I shouldn’t have split it.  

I received word and they said I could split the 450mg ER.  

[Altostrata]

On 3/23/2018 at 8:05 AM, Dabhob33 said:

Zyprexa is not an option. 

 

Are you thinking of adding other drugs?

 

On 3/23/2018 at 7:57 AM, Dabhob33 said:

My diagnosis is Depression, GAD, PTSD, 

 

To what extent do you believe you can live without psychiatric drugs?

[Dabhob33]

20 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Are you thinking of adding other drugs?

*****no

To what extent do you believe you can live without psychiatric drugs?

****i’m not sure.   I don’t want to be on any meds.    Although my brain has to adjust to being off meds after 28 yrs.  I’ve been building coping skills through the years.

 

[JanCarol]

18 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

Pharmacist said I shouldn’t be splitting the lithium carbonate 450mg ER pill.  

 

Yes, we know that splitting the ER pill makes it immediate release. 

 

I've talked about that.

 

That's why you are taking 2 doses per day.

Pharmacists tend to believe that the pills - as packaged - are sacred and not to be messed with.  Especially if it has "Extended Release" or something on it.

 

But they don't give us the doses we need, so we have to make up doses as we can.

I'm glad you got approval, but I might caution you against telling pharmacists everything you do.

 

I remember telling a doctor about using sudafed (years ago).  I told him that I shaved tiny slivers or crumbs, and that was enough to help my sinuses.  He said, "I don't want to hear it!" and put a note on my file "Drug seeking" (It is hard to get sudafed here without a script.)  He must have thought I snorted it or something!  I have no idea what he thought, but using tiny quantities of their drugs seems to be  just as unacceptable as using too much.

 

 

14 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

I’ve been building coping skills through the years.

 

I'd love to hear more!  I love hearing about non-drug techniques that people use.  

 

What do you do when you are in distress?  What helps the most?  Can you think your way out - or is it better to exercise?  Can you catch rumination while it's happening and redirect it?  How do you do that?

What are your favourite practices - foods that help you, techniques or exercises (like my sun-walks) that are good for managing your daily mood?

 

I hope you see the sun today!

[Dabhob33]

15 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Are you thinking of adding other drugs?

*****no

To what extent do you believe you can live without psychiatric drugs?

****i’m not sure   I don’t want to be on any.   

 

[Dabhob33]

3/26/18

630 - woke

8 - breakfast - 5mg valium / eye drops / 450mg lithium 

Didn’t sleep well at all most of last night.  Wake in panic.  Lots of thinking about lithium or Valium taper.

10 - got taxes done.

12 - lunch 

Feel numb, yet anxious

2 - picked up son from school

Feeling agoraphobic - really tense about going out to my appts, restaurants, fixing headlight, taking kids to appts 

Talked with mom

6 - dinner 

8 - 225mg Lithium 

930 -  eye drops 

10 - 5.5mg valium 

1130 - tried to sleep 

130am - no sleep - 12.5mg doxy

[Dabhob33]

20 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Are you thinking of adding other drugs?

*****no

To what extent do you believe you can live without psychiatric drugs?

****i’m not sure   I don’t want to be on any.   

Psychiatrist suggested Buspar to help with the valium wd.   Said that I will need something to cover my anxiety bc of my make up as I taper.   Said I will need non addictive anti anxiety drug most likely for rest of my life.

 

[Altostrata]

9 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

Psychiatrist suggested Buspar to help with the valium wd.   Said that I will need something to cover my anxiety bc of my make up as I taper.   Said I will need non addictive anti anxiety drug most likely for rest of my life.

 

You'll have to make up your mind whether you agree with this. "Non-addictive" is a term of art, all psychiatric drugs incur dependency after regular use over time.

 

We've discussed this before, constantly adding and changing drugs makes it impossible to tell where adverse symptoms are coming from. They could be from one of the drugs, a combination of drugs, or withdrawal from one or the other. We don't have any way to tell. If you want to follow your doctor's advice in making these changes, it's not fair to expect a bunch of peer support volunteers to figure out what to do about an adverse fallout, if it should occur. It's your doctor's responsibility to fix her mistakes.

 

This seems like a lot of complication for a Valium taper, when you can do a better job of managing symptoms by simply going slowly.

 

Furthermore, it really looks like you're in a danger zone with your lithium dosage. Even though kidney damage is not apparent yet, we are concerned the dosage is too high and have been recommending a reduction there. Now, you're seriously thinking of reducing the benzo AND lithium AND adding Buspar?

[Dabhob33]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

 

You'll have to make up your mind whether you agree with this. "Non-addictive" is a term of art, all psychiatric drugs incur dependency after regular use over time.

 

We've discussed this before, constantly adding and changing drugs makes it impossible to tell where adverse symptoms are coming from. They could be from one of the drugs, a combination of drugs, or withdrawal from one or the other. We don't have any way to tell. If you want to follow your doctor's advice in making these changes, it's not fair to expect a bunch of peer support volunteers to figure out what to do about an adverse fallout, if it should occur. It's your doctor's responsibility to fix her mistakes.

 

This seems like a lot of complication for a Valium taper, when you can do a better job of managing symptoms by simply going slowly.

 

Furthermore, it really looks like you're in a danger zone with your lithium dosage. Even though kidney damage is not apparent yet, we are concerned the dosage is too high and have been recommending a reduction there. Now, you're seriously thinking of reducing the benzo AND lithium AND adding Buspar?

I’m just reporting what he doctor is suggesting.  I didn’t say I was going to do it.  

 

You suggested I need to drop lithium further, no?

 

I’m  holding valium.  Haven’t dropped since 3/15/18.   I’m going with what has been suggested by the group.  No?  I haven’t added anything.   I did drop the lithium to 675mg as suggested by JanCarol.  Just reporting what feedback I’m getting back from psychiatrist.   I’m working with you.   I’m not seriously thinking about adding anything.   

[Shep]

2 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

I’m just reporting what he doctor is suggesting.  I didn’t say I was going to do it.  

 

 

This is a communication issue - it will help when you report what your doctor is suggesting if you state what YOUR opinion of it is.  We aren't mind readers.  Stating that your doctor wants you to add in Zyprexa and now Buspar without stating that YOU think these are bad ideas has led us to think these were options you were considering. And then you get frustrated when we come to these conclusions. 

 

14 hours ago, Dabhob33 said:

Said I will need non addictive anti anxiety drug most likely for rest of my life.

 

Do YOU believe this? 

 

It's concerning that you are still having conversations with your doctor in a way that is leading her to throw drugs at you. But until you get past this, when you do report what she says, also report what you think about her suggestions instead of leaving that for the moderators to try and figure out.

[Dabhob33]

3/27/18

630 - woke

8 - breakfast - 5mg valium / eye drops / 450mg lithium 

Daughter out of control.   Lot of anger. I can’t handle.    

10 - cousin came over to fix window daughter broke. 

12 - therapist

130 - neurologist 

I feel like I’m going to have a breakdown.  Can’t handle how I’m feeling and my wife and kids. 

Neurologist suggested buspar.   I didn’t fill it.   

Anxiety all day.  Ruminating.  

3 - 325mg Tylenol (bad headache)

Awoke from meditation in panic (dozed off for a few seconds)

5 - magnesium drink / 225mg lithium  

930 -  eye drops 

10 - 5.5mg valium 

11 - sleep 

3/28/18

130am - no sleep - 12.5mg doxy

330 - woke - no sleep rest of the night