LarryS: tapering off venlafaxine / Effexor 225mg

[LarryS]

Wednesday May 10,  Day 6

As mentioned above I got a better night's sleep last night in part due to two drugs, Meletonin and Hydrocodone-Acetaminophen.  Six hours of sounder sleep was very noticeable in the morning.  I was up at 4:09 am, but my wife does not get up till around 6:00 am.  I went out to my living area where there is a comfortable sofa, reading lamp, "HappyLight", and gas fireplace.  With the weather getting warmer and staying warmer at night, I did not have to turn on the fireplace.  

 

I have recently come across a Jewish Rabbi that has an audience that ask him questions.  I have found his answers to be fascinating.  I spent two hours relaxing, drinking my morning cup of coffee and just listening to him on U-Tube.

 

The wife did get up, so we started our morning routine.  I do all the cooking now.  I whipped up some pancakes which we love.  I throw half a banana, cinnamon, egg, and blueberries into the mix.  Gave the wife her morning hot chai tea first.  Each of us gets a quarter of a bottle of "Bolthouse" fruit smoothy.  Also, may slice some melon up and put it on the table.  We sit down together and enjoy breakfast.  We ended breakfast about 7 am.  I noted that my fatigue level was an 8 already.

 

By 7:45 I marked down that my head pressure was a 7.  This indicates "More than moderate head pressure or odd feelings in my head."

 

I normally pay my household bills on Wednesday mornings.  By this time, I was not feeling like doing much so I decided to do it halfway.  I did the bare minimum of what I normally would do.

 

Our dog had a grooming appointment at 8:30 about 1 mile away.  I assessed myself and figured no problem to take the dog down and drop him off.   I did, and no problem.

 

It was an unusually bright sunny day.  Clouds are the norm around here.  The outdoors beckoned, so I decided to mow some lawn.  The yard waste/ recycle go out Thursday morning, so this was perfect timing.  I had already done the main portion of the front yard.  So, I mowed a small area of side yard.  The bin was almost full, so I stopped at that about 9:20.  I could start to feel the cognitive fog come on.  I upped the head pressure value to 8.

 

Since it was a beautiful day, I encouraged my wife to go on a short walk.  There is a wetland area with trail nearby that is also a park of the city.  We finished up our short walk about noon.  It is good to get the wife out of the house as I can.  She has had three knee surgeries and walks slowly.  I hold onto her hand which feels wonderful, but this also provides stability to her due to balance issues.  We didn't see any ducks on the wetland pond today. 

 

I grew up in southern California, enjoying the warm sun at the beaches.  When opportunity arises, not often enough for me, I go into the backyard and catch a few warm rays.  This is only the second time this year that I have sat on my lounge chair soaking up some rays.  I'm careful not to overdo.

 

By 1:45 I was wanting a nap type rest period but just couldn't get to it.  Picked up the dog from grooming.

 

I was able to end a nap around 3:15 pm.  A daytime nap does not usually result in sleep.  I rest on the bed, breath air from my CPAP machine, close my eyes, breath some deep breaths and concentrate on relaxation.  I got 45 minutes in on the CPAP machine clock.  My fatigue is still at an 8, which means fatigue is affecting my ability to think and concentrate.

 

Ended dinner at 7:15 pm.

 

The back and neck pain have not been too bad today, about a 6.  I'm pleased the anhedonia has been minimal.

 

We both walked our dog around the short block in the neighborhood, which is about 0.5 mile.  We got home at 7:50 pm.

 

I seem to feel a little better this evening.  It's 9:30, time to get some sleep, I hope.

 

 

 

 

[LarryS]

Two Week Hold: Drop to ZERO From 0.75 mg; And Overview of Three Most Recent Drop Periods

 

Dropping to 0 milligram (mg) May 5, 2023.  To do this drop, I am cutting from 2 beads to 0 beads, each bead valued at 0.375 mg.  

I use a severity of symptom scoring system from 1 least severe to 10 most severe.

I will present three taper drop and hold periods progressively going back in time.

The 15 days drop hold period from April 20 through May 4 (most recent) presented a total combined average score of 32.85.  During this period, I took 2 beads, total worth 0.75 milligram (mg) active ingredient.  

Scores below are the average severity over the 15 days drop period from April 20 through May 4.
Anhedonia          3.73    Some caring and pleasure about my health, being loving and respectful of others.

Insomnia             5.40    Slept 5 to 6 hours with 1+ interruptions.

Fatigue     *         5.93    Mild to moderate fatigue all day.

Head-pressure **    4.53    Moderate head pressure.

Back Pain           7.00    Uncomfortable pain.

Neck Pain          6.26    Uncomfortable pain.

 

*    “Cognitive Fog” is described in severity levels 7 – 8 of Fatigue.
**    Started with name “Head-pressure” because that is what I was feeling in the beginning, but later became the catch all for all sensations going on inside my brain.  “Headache” is described in severity 8 through 10.  I fortunately have not experienced “Brain Zaps”.

 

The 35 days drop hold period from March 16 to April 19 presented a total combined average score of 29.33.  During this period, I took 3 beads, a total worth 1.13 mg active ingredient.  Individual scores from this period where:
Anhedonia  3.17;   Insomnia 3.34;  Fatigue  4.74;  Head-pressure  4.37;  Back Pain  6.97; Neck Pain  6.74    
As one can see by comparing each symptom directly above with scores in the April 20 to May 4 hold period, all scores increased in severity except for Neck Pain during the April 20 through May 4 hold period.

 

Also of interest, the 35 days drop and hold period from February 9 to March 15 presented a total combined score of 23.15.  During this period, I took 4 beads worth 1.5 mg of active ingredient.

 

Therefore, it can be easily recognized that as the number of beads dropped from 4 to 2, the average total symptom severity scores continued to increase.

 

COMBINED SEVERITY SUMMARY
February 9 to March 15    23.15
March 16 to April 19          29.33
April 20 through May 4    32.85

 

Drilling down into how many data points where 7 or above in severity for the April 20 through May 4 hold period will be the next part of what will be enumerated.  I consider a score of 7 and above getting into the hard to tolerate range.  
Anhedonia           0/15
Insomnia              4/15

Fatigue                 4/15

Head-pressure    3/15

Back Pain            11/15

Neck Pain            5/15

 

During the April 20 through May 4 period, I mentioned experiencing cognitive fog 4 times in my notes.  This cognitive fog is particularly concerning to me because it affects my ability to perform daily basic duties.  Fatigue promotes cognitive fog.  Fatigue has been a long-standing issue for me.

 

I also want to state again that I consider “Back Pain” and “Neck Pain” to be physical issues, not venlafaxine taper issues.  The reason they have been included in my tracking is because I believe they can influence or contribute to how I am feeling over all in my body, potentially affecting my scoring in the other tracked areas.  I also wanted to track them because they have been a constant abiding pain in my life as I have grown older.  

May 5, 2023 is LarryS’s brand new birthday, the day ZERO became a new beginning.  This is an emotional time for me.  I am so thankful to be blessed with this new birthday.  I am experiencing the beginnings of a new kind of freedom and more peace of mind.  

My original birthday was 75 years and 81 days ago.  That life has experienced much freedom in the United States of America.  I was able to make some choices and work hard toward goals.  This currently has led me to a comfortable retirement in many ways.  But there have always been struggles and tribulations.  That is just the way we must learn discipline.

I also have another freedom.  That freedom resides in my eternal soul as I have searched for God.  That too has been hard for me sometimes as I have so many questions.  But by steady ongoing willingness to listen to others who have gone before me, listening to the Word of God being expounded upon, and little by little understanding more and more, I now have peace beyond my limited understanding in a Creator God who loves me, Shepard’s me, and above all wants me simply to be thankful to Him for all that He has done for me, even when I did not immediately recognize his care.

I believe there is still a long way to go in my journey.  This seedling has just sprouted into the sunshine.  I’m soaking it all in.  Living life has become more beautiful.   😎
 

[Faure]

6 hours ago, LarryS said:

May 5, 2023 is LarryS’s brand new birthday, the day ZERO became a new beginning.  This is an emotional time for me.  I am so thankful to be blessed with this new birthday.  I am experiencing the beginnings of a new kind of freedom and more peace of mind

Congratulations on your new birthday, this has deeply touched me. I hope I will have a new birthday in the future as well. What a wonderful idea and it most certainly is something to celebrate ☺️❤️☺️
 

6 hours ago, LarryS said:

I believe there is still a long way to go in my journey.  This seedling has just sprouted into the sunshine.  I’m soaking it all in.  Living life has become more beautiful.   😎

 

What wonderful news you are feeling so much better. I am sure these words will give many people encouragement ☺️

[LarryS]

Thursday May 11, 2023          STATUS AFTER GOING TO ZERO

Apply KISS principle:  Keep it Simple Stupid.

Arise at 1:56 am.  Obtained 3 3/4-hour sleep time per CPAP.  CPAP reads 4:30

6:30 am:   While wife sleeps, post and read on S.A.

7:30 Breakfast.   Head-Pressure 8, Fatigue 8

9:30 Review reasons for wife to get off Fluoxetine.

10:00 Take dog to veterinarian.

11:20  NAP - CPAP reads 5:13.

3:00 Been on S.A.

4:30  Experiencing brain fog.  Fatigue 8, Head-Pressure 8

8:30  Do physical therapy exercises at home.  Back Pain 3, Neck Pain 3.  Unusually low.

A tough day in some ways, but very good in others.

A=2, I=7, 

To bed approximately 10:30 pm

[LarryS]

May 11,  Thursday,  Day 7 at ZERO Venlafaxine

 

Wednesday night I have gotten into bed at 10:10 pm; just before bed I take melatonin 3 mg, Ibuprofen 600 mg and Tylenol 1,000 mg to deaden pain and help me sleep more soundly, hopefully.  This is not a habit I want to get into.

 

I awaken at 11:57 am, CPAP reads 2:36; I don't know why I have woken up.  Go to restroom and then back to bed.

I get out of bed at 1:56 am Thursday morning.  I can't seem to sleep more.  CPAP machine reads 4:30 hours of use.  I had taken a long 45-minute nap late Wednesday afternoon and logged 45 minutes on the CPAP machine. I subtract this amount from the CPAP reading and come up with a 3:59 hour rest period.  Not nearly enough in my book.

 

I post and read and post again on SA (Surviving Antidepressants).  I stop this at 6:30 am.

I end breakfast routine at 7:30.   I always write down my times after I have completed something.

 

7:30  Already I am noting Head-Pressure/Headache is 8 and Fatigue is 8.

 

8:00  Finish devotions with wife.  We simply read a portion of the Bible and then pray together.

 

11:22  NAP - CPAP AT 5:13

 

3:00  On SA while wife at Bible study.

 

4:30  Visit with friend.  Fatigue = 8;  Head-Pressure = 8 with brain fog.

 

8:30  Physical therapy exercise reveals:  Back Pain = 3 and Neck Pain = 3.  I'm pleased and hopeful my pain will continue at this level.

 

Conclusion:  A tough day in some ways, but very good in others.

[LarryS]

May 12  -  Friday  Day 8 at ZERO Venlafaxine

 

Thursday evening went to bed about 10:30

 

4:45 am get up, 1 Interruption, CPAP 6:05  (10:30 pm to 4:45 am is 6  1/4 hours, checks out with CPAP reading)

 

6:00 Listen to a Jewish Rabbi speak on U-Tube.  (Just sort of stubbled it seems into this guy; he is very thought provoking.)  (There is a purpose for everything that happens to me.)

 

7:05  Ftoast (French Toast) / 0 mg Ven. / Amlo. (Amlodipine) / Vit's (Vitamins)

 

Read Romans and pray with wife.

 

9:24  NAP - CPAP 6:50   (45 minute nap)  ( I rest but real sleep is fleeting)

 

9:24  F8 and H8  (Fatigue 8 and Head-Pressure 😎

 

1:00  Make Fred Myer (grocery) online order.  (I did my first order during COVID-19 crisis.  Been quite a while since using this process but figured with my fatigue it could save me some energy.) 

 

2:45  Mow my lawn.  (Ah fresh air)

 

3:15  Hot Bath (Float and relax in addition to cleansing) (Often relieves muscle tension) (Still F8 & H8  😑 )

 

4:45  Update S.A. and talk with wife.

 

7:00  Dinner out with friends.

 

10:30  I enlivened while around friends having a good time.  Fatigue decreased but brain was slow.  Sunny day (helps mood)

 

As I prepare for bed, make sure my 6 tracked items get a severity number.

Did I hug my wife today.  Check.  🥰

Took Melatonin 3 mg

Lights out.

 

[LarryS]

May 13,  Saturday,  Day 9  ZERO Venlafaxine 

 

Friday evening to bed 10:49 pm

 

1:50 am - CPAP 3:05;  First awakening (Hard to fall back to sleep)

 

2:33 am up, 1 Int., CPAP 3:43

 

6:13  On SA.  Also research "Tile" finder on web.

 

6:50  Oats  0 Ven. + Amlo. + Vitamins

 

8:10  Read Romans 15 and pray w/ wife

 

9:01  NAP - CPAP 4:28    F8 & H8

 

10:40  (Pick up online order but need more).  Shop Fred Myer

 

12:10  Walk grocery store and wetland trail.  2.45 miles total.

 

1:10  Lunch

 

2:45  NAP - CPAP 0:45  (I figure CPAP readings start at zero about 2:00 in the afternoon.)

 

7:15  Dinner and read newspaper.

 

Watch TV and talk with brother.

I'm so tired I talk like I am drunk.

Hard day with high fatigue, cognitive fog, insomnia and head junk.

Two NAPs today.

 

Ensure severity numbers get applied to my 6 symptoms that I track.  (I use the highest severity number that I observe during the day.)

 

Take melatonin 3 mg, Tylenol 1,000 mg, Ibuprofen 600 mg

 

Did I hug my wife today?  Check.  🥰

 

9:46 to bed.  Lights out.

[FindRest]

Larry, I look forward to reading your daily notes. 
 

Your fatigue has got to be miserable. Wish I could tell you some surefire way to get rid of it, aside from reading the thread on that. For me, it’s mostly about enduring it and persevering while reassuring myself that this too will end at some point. It doesn’t help the head pressure any or the brain fog. Knowing they are all related is a bit reassuring and limits the anxiety from it all. It’s amazing how little sleep we can get by on. 
 

Have you heard of the spoon theory? A “spoon” in this theory represents a certain amount of physical and emotional energy. I may not be able to explain the theory very clearly, but I’ll try. Basically, we wake up with so many “spoons” each day in our arsenal. Let’s say today you wake up with 8 spoons available. Brushing your teeth and getting dressed takes, let’s say, 1 spoon. Fixing breakfast and helping your wife to breakfast takes another. Fixing lunch and supper another 1 or 2 each. Mowing the lawn might take 3 spoons. Laundry another. Before you know it, your spoons are gone. So now, you operate the rest of the day in the negative. Not good for your physical or mental health. The trick is learning to recognize how many spoons you have available, if any, and adjusting your day accordingly. I feel like I’m preaching to the choir, as you’ve repeatedly shown much awareness and restraint when it comes to pushing yourself too far. Just something that popped into my mind.

 

BTW, Romans is one of my favorite books in the Bible. It’s had a huge influence in my life.
 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by FindRest

[LarryS]

5 hours ago, FindRest said:

Wish I could tell you some surefire way to get rid of it, aside from reading the thread on that.

 

I appreciate your concern @FindRest but I do believe that the majority of what I am experiencing regarding insomnia and fatigue is related to my body making final adjustments toward no more venlafaxine.  It is just a phase to go through.  It was somewhat anticipated, but off course you really don't know till you're in it.  I will get through this.

 

No one has ever died from lack of sleep.  At least not to my knowledge.  We have been given amazing bodies.  My body will force me to sleep if that is what I absolutely need.

 

I'm having some unusually good times with current and new friends.  

 

I have always grown and matured most through the toughest times.  Bring it on.  😎

[Carmel5]

Congrats Larry on coming off at a harm reducing pace! I truly hope your health has improved. I'm not at 2.40 mg myself and have 6 more months to go.

[FindRest]

17 hours ago, LarryS said:

I'm having some unusually good times with current and new friends.  

Awesome!! This is so good to hear! 

 

17 hours ago, LarryS said:

I have always grown and matured most through the toughest times.  Bring it on.  😎

Larry the Warrior showing what he’s made of. 💪🏻 🤗

 

[LarryS]

12 hours ago, Carmel5 said:

Congrats Larry on coming off at a harm reducing pace! I truly hope your health has improved. I'm not at 2.40 mg myself and have 6 more months to go.

 

Thanks for stopping by @Carmel5

I see that you have been in a similar starting position of 225 mg of venlafaxine.

 

You can get through to zero, slow and steady.

 

Best wishes for you.  😎

[LarryS]

May 14 Sunday Day 10 - Zero Venlafaxine

 

3:25 am up,  0 Interruptions,  CPAP 6:30

 

6:15  Post on SA;  Research wife's history on Fluoxetine 20 mg.  Want to begin weaning her off this nasty drug.

 

7:00 Eggs for breakfast plus usually fruit, toast, fruit smoothie, vitamins and Amlodipine 2.5 mg.

 

9:15 Attend church online

 

11:00  Listen to a Rabbi online

 

11:48  NAP - CPAP 7:17 (hours: minutes)

 

Hot bath:  F8, H8

 

1:45  Make lunch for wife and I

 

6:02  Catch up posting daily notes on SA

 

6:30  Crash Brandon's party (across the street) (Not exactly, just dropping in to say Hi)  It's mother's day and he is flipping burgers.  His mother is enjoying the party atmosphere with her son and daughter home.  The daughter has come home from college for the summer.  

 

7:00  Late dinner (leftovers) (love to keep it simple, I am now the cook)

 

9:30  Watch part of XFL football championship.

 

Hard day due to high fatigue and head-pressure, but also productive, busy and some fun.

 

To bed 10:17

 

A 2, I 3, F 8, H8, BP 6, NP 6

 

Hugs?  Yes

 

[LarryS]

May 15 - Monday - Day 11 - ZERO Venlafaxine

 

12:31 am  CPAP 2:18  1st awakening; 73 degrees Fahrenheit in the house.  Seattle WA breaks a record high at 88 degrees today.

 

1:05 am  CPAP 2:41   2nd awakening; stay up for a while.

 

2:28 am  On SA; Return to bed.

 

3:40 am  CPAP 3:48; Rest but no rem sleep.

 

3:40 am up, 2 Interruptions, CPAP 3:48

 

5:20  Listen first, then maybe speak later; Listen to Rabbi.

 

6:20  My weight 159.5 pounds, I like it.  (Previously hovering at 163.5)

 

6:52  Blood pressure 127/81 - 84 bpm; I like it!  🙂

 

8:45  Read Romans 16 and pray with wife.

 

9:45  Walk with our dog Pepe (e pronounced eh) 1.65 miles.  F5, H5

 

11:20  Discuss a change with a company I pay a lot of money to.

 

12:10  Fix lunch for wife and I.

 

12:45  NAP - CPAP 4:20

 

1:30  NAP - CPAP 0:28  (CPAP goes back to 0:00 at 1:00 pm) F7, H5

 

3:00  Receive massage in my home.  ☺️

 

4:30  Hot Bath - Soap off oil and relax by floating.  ☺️

 

Help wife

 

9:20  Tough fatigued day.

 

A2, I8, F7, H5, BP3, NP3

 

Hugs: Yes

 

Meletonin 5 mg

 

9:37  To Bed

 

[LarryS]

I have a story to tell of a strong warrior in my life.  

 

My father joined the US Air force during World War II.

 

He trained to be a radio operator on a B17 bomber and was assigned to a base in England.  The crew was assigned to bomb targets in Germany.  They delivered the bombs to their targets, but the B17 was fatally hit and going down over Germany.  The captain ordered the men to be abandoned ship.  The crew parachuted to the ground but were rounded up by the Germans on the ground and taken to a concentration camp.

 

He lived in brutal conditions and was given little to eat.  He told me how he and some others managed to catch a chicken and feast on it.  But they continued to slowly starve.

 

During that time, he was given access to a Bible.  He spent his time reading it.  He committed his life to Jesus Christ as his Savior and Lord.

 

Fortunately for him and others the military was able to take over the area and the camp and rescue those who remained alive.

 

A picture of him shows that he was very skinny.

 

Nevertheless, the former prisoners were given guns and ordered to march their former German captors back to a holding area.

 

My father surely celebrated his new life.

 

He eventually married and they produced five children.  All blessings from God.  They loved each of us and raised us as Christians.  I and my fraternal twin brother were the first to be born.  My twin brother lives about 10-minutes' drive east of me.  We have a strong bond.

 

I have a very good relationship with my youngest sister and youngest brother who live here in Washington State.  My relationship with my oldest sister is not as strong, but it is a fairly good one.  She is the only one who does not live in Washington State.

 

My mother became very ill in her later years, and my father cared for her in the home until she passed.  I now do the same for my wife who has full dementia.

 

When my father became very ill and in the hospital, all four of us set up an around the clock watch at his bedside.  Each one of us would take turns being at his side. It was late at night, and I was getting some rest in a lounge chair there in his hospital room.  He had been quiet and resting with an oxygen mask over his face.

 

I can't seem to stop sobbing as I tell this story.  I keep whipping away the tears so I can see to type.  I know without a doubt that God's spirit has prompted me to share his and my story.

 

All of a sudden in an unusually strong voice he said to me:  "You cannot hold me here any longer the Lord is calling me home.  Let me go."

 

I called in the doctor and asked what can I do?

 

She said, "I think he has been ready for some time.  I think it is time to let him go."  I said .... OK.

 

Just about that time, my wife came into the room unexpectedly.

 

They took off his oxygen mask.  He took one breath and then departed.

 

My wife did not know, but she had come to comfort me in my deep sorrow.

 

It is written:

 

All things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose:  Romans 8:28

 

I want to be a loving father like my father to my three children.

 

My father became a warrior for Jesus Christ.

 

So am I.

 

I will survive this temporary trial in my life.  And I will thrive.

 

Take heart reader, you can also.

 

[Believer]

Larry, 

Thank you for sharing your story. What a blessing to have a father share his faith in the Lord and be a warrior for Christ.
 

I have followed your taper and am so happy for you that you finally reached zero. Thanks for keeping us updated throughout your journey. 

[FindRest]

What a beautiful story and tribute to your father. Thank you for sharing it. The end-of-life moments you describe bring me goosebumps. I’m glad you were there in the end to witness that.

[Carmel5]

On 5/16/2023 at 7:35 AM, LarryS said:

 

Thanks for stopping by @Carmel5

I see that you have been in a similar starting position of 225 mg of venlafaxine.

 

You can get through to zero, slow and steady.

 

Best wishes for you.  😎

I now have read all your journey off of this effexor. I admire your attention to details. Let us know if you would recommend stopping at 2 to 3 beads if too early to tell probably. You ended your tapering on my birthday. My main concern at this point is extreme fatigue, memory loss and some apathy. I know this to be withdrawal effects. Luckily I can sleep although interrupted at times. Thanks again for detailing your journey off of this, it is helping many. 

[LarryS]

@Believer  @FindRest  @Carmel5  

 

Thanks for stopping by and your comments.  You all encourage me.

 

As a former civil engineer, I have always paid attention to details.  I spent the last 5 years tracking money and progress on 3.6-billion-dollar mega project.  I got some practice before I got here.

 

I started tracking my progress from the very beginning, as soon as I got here at SA because it was recommended by the first mentor who started me on the right path at SA.

 

I gladly track now for all those who are coming up behind me and want to know what it is like after ZERO.  

 

I want to do my part to help you and others.

[LarryS]

May 16 - Tuesday - Day 12 - ZERO Venlafaxine

 

1:35 am CPAP 4:30 2nd awakening

 

4:38 am up, 3 Interruptions, CPAP 7:26 - 0:28 = 6:58

 

6:38  Make three posts on SA.  F8, H7

 

7:30 Make pancakes topped with organic strawberry jam.  Also include honey dew melon, 1/4 cup fruit smoothie.

 

8:00  Read Exodus 30 and pray with wife.

 

8:49 NAP - CPAP 8:09 - 0:28 = 7:41 (43 minutes rest, no sleep.)  I practice slow deep breathing which relaxes my body and eyes.  I get a little refreshment, but no sleep.  (Wife is in and out of bedroom 5 times looking for something, this is unusual for her.) 

 

I know that I would be risking myself and others should I try to drive.   I have requested help from a neighbor friend to take the wife to her 4-hour senior center class for people with dementia.

 

9:30  Wife picked up for class.  I am now home alone.

 

10:15  Looked for phone numberer of father in neighborhood who has two teenage boys that I am hoping to get some help from.  I go through my entire cell phone list twice but can't spot the name.  (I am too exhausted.)  Fill out a medical form.

 

11:23  NAP - CPAP 9:05 - F8, H8

 

Nap was interrupted by phone call from my son who is concerned for me.  This is a welcomed interruption.  He asks me how I am doing, and I frankly tell him.

 

12:50  End telling story about a strong warrior in my life.

 

Sit in sun for 20 minutes on an unusually bright sunny day.  This previous California boy loves it.  And the beauty and colors are amazing.

 

Lunch

 

2:30  Wife returned from senior center by friend.  Talk with her a bit about her experience.

 

6:05  NAP -CPAP 0:46  Rest, no sleep.

 

7:00  Dinner

 

9:50  Watch American Idol.  What awesome singing artists, each with a story to tell.

 

A1, I9, F9, H9 BP6, NP6

 

Ignoring my symptom criteria grading system tonight.  It does not fit what is happening.  I could not have imagined how hard this is.  I have noticed that the most severe symptoms drown out the others.  In other words, insomnia, fatigue and head-pressure are so severe, the back pain and neck pain have receded into the background of what is felt at this moment in time.  Back pain and neck pain have for a long time been the two most severe symptoms I track.

 

(It is 5:20 am as I slowly try to type this document.  I'm trying to be careful to catch as many typing errors as I can, but I have probably missed some due to severe symptoms.)  (Spelling auto correct is helping considerably.)

 

10:10 am To bed.  Meletonin 3 mg.

[RachelSusan]

@LarryS Your sleep pattern sounds similar to mine.I remember fondly the days when I would sleep seven hours. Insomnia is the worst.

 

I am sorry you are suffering with other symptoms as well.  I know it will improve with time.

 

Isn't crazy how powerful these drugs are? Yet they are given out like candy.  Stay strong.

 

 

 

 

[j1290]

12 hours ago, LarryS said:

I could not have imagined how hard this is.

I think you summarized all of tapering in one sentence.   Really sorry to hear that you're going through such a rough patch.   I know you know, but just a friendly reminder that there will be an end to this, sooner or later.  

 

12 hours ago, LarryS said:

Ignoring my symptom criteria grading system tonight.  It does not fit what is happening.

Seems like every day I get some really odd, "new" symptom of the day.   No way for me to tell if it's really new or been covered up by more severe symptoms previously.   I try not to give them too much thought because sooner or later they rotate out and I don't want to make more of them than they deserve.   It's going to take a minute but one day I'll wake up and this stuff will just be a memory.  Hope that happens soon for you!

[FindRest]

I’m sorry about the insomnia, fatigue, and head pressure. I don’t recall hearing much about head pressure as a post-zero symptom in many others who have done a slow taper. Did you have head pressure at other points in your taper? Luckily, I have never had that symptom. However, I wonder if something I use for headache + temporalis pain would help. It’s a gel ice-pack wrap that fits like a hat on your head. You can find them on Amazon. Put it in the freezer, then wear it like a hat. Mine covers the eyes as well, but I sometimes wear it to where my eyes aren’t covered.
 

The brand I use is “TheraIce”. It works wonderfully! Maybe it would work for your head pressure?

 

The temporalis pain I get can feel like a pressure vice around my head. It’s from an injury I had to my jaw last year.

 

https://www.amazon.com/TheraICE-Rx-Headache-Comfortable-Stretchable/dp/B082WN9NJL/ref=sxin_16_pa_sp_search_thematic_sspa?content-id=amzn1.sym.64bc779e-b98c-45cc-a090-d4d3598f4d4c%3Aamzn1.sym.64bc779e-b98c-45cc-a090-d4d3598f4d4c&crid=2IBEYEZFP0NXT&cv_ct_cx=Head%2Bgel%2Bcap%2Bfor%2Bmigraine&keywords=Head%2Bgel%2Bcap%2Bfor%2Bmigraine&pd_rd_i=B082WN9NJL&pd_rd_r=e2e543fe-063c-468e-9ac8-e21ccc779519&pd_rd_w=SKuZU&pd_rd_wg=Xpb3U&pf_rd_p=64bc779e-b98c-45cc-a090-d4d3598f4d4c&pf_rd_r=1GH4GYK88ME6VQ1AF95R&qid=1684463124&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sprefix=head%2Bgel%2Bcap%2Bfor%2Bmigraine%2Caps%2C137&sr=1-1-364cf978-ce2a-480a-9bb0-bdb96faa0f61-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExQjRYUlJZOU5ETTVBJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTUxNjk0M05aRERDQ1hWNTU2QyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzgwOTMyMkg3MVFGT0JSWVlRWCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX3NlYXJjaF90aGVtYXRpYyZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

Edited May 19, 2023 by FindRest

[LarryS]

May 17 - Wednesday - Day 13 - ZERO Venlafaxine

 

12:15 am Up; CPAP 2:55

 

 1:34 am  Back to bed

 

2:58 am Up;  CPAP 5:14 - 2:55  =  2:19  (I think I Slept)

 

7:00  Listen to Rabbi, pay some bills and update Quicken budget tracking.

 

7:45  French toast + medications

 

8:15  Read Exodus 31 and pray with wife.

 

9:00  Good long meaningful conversation with my only son.  

 

10:00  Hot Bath for relaxation

 

11:00  Stand by as wife showers.  (Fears falling again out of the shower.)  A little dizzy myself, this is unusual.

 

Insomnia = I = 9;  Fatigue = F = 9;  Head-Pressure = H = 9;  Back Pain = BP = 4;  Neck Pain = NP = 4

 

Note:  Head-Pressure includes headache, cognitive fog, and anything I feel in my head.

 

Both back pain and neck pain seem to be in the background of the more severe symptoms.  In the past BP and NP were the two tracked items which were most severe.

 

(The reason I have been noting activities during each daily log is to let the reader know what I am capable of doing even when I am going through my most severe symptoms.)

 

(In talking with doctors, I also know that my designation of symptom level 9 may be someone else's symptom level 5.  Scoring is subjective, not absolute.  Creating my definition of a scoring system for each symptom, initially in the beginning, can help the tracker be more consistent, but that is about all.  I am already thinking about how my scoring systems may be improved.  Perhaps since I have now almost finished the entire taper, I could develop an improved scoring system.  Or perhaps not, since everyone has different symptoms and insights into how they personally feel.)

 

12:40 pm  Prepare lunch for wife and me.

 

1:30  End  NAP - CPAP 0:14 ?  (Approximately 45 minutes of rest.)

 

5:10  Friend drives wife and I to see her dentist.  He does and errand, returns and then takes us home.  I'm thankful for this friend.  If I were to drive, I would be putting everyone at risk.

 

Respond on SA.

 

6:30  Prepare left overs for dinner.  (Keep it simple.)

 

7:30  Make large salad.

 

Every Wednesday evening, I put out the trash for pickup in the morning.  Tonight, due to extreme fatigue and cognitive fog the task is proving to be difficult.  The task:  Put 6 waste baskets from the home into either 1 large garbage bin or 1 large recycle bin and wheel to the street curb.  I'm experiencing start, stop and think, and errors.  I'm progressing very slowly.  I have done this task 100s of times, why is this so hard.  It is simple, right?  I remembered a technique taught to my wife by a trainer connected with neurology department after tests showed that she was losing some mental capabilities due to vascular dementia.  I attended the session with my wife.  The trainer taught us to verbally say each step repeatedly to ourselves to keep us focused on each step of the process.  The cognitive fog was thick.  This is what I had to do to get through this simple process.  Finally got it done.  I=9, F=9, H=9

 

A1, I9, F9, H9, BP4, NP4      Meletonin 3 mg   Hugs: Yes

 

10:00 pm to bed

 

 

 

[LarryS]

May 18 - Thursday - Day 14 - Zero Venlafaxine

 

4:03 am up, 0 Interruptions, CPAP 6:21 - 0:14 = 6:07    Slept all 6 hours without interruption.

 

5:45 am  Post a day on SA.  Blood Pressure 166/96 - 81 bpm at rest.

 

6:13  Start breakfast preparations.  I open door to garage to get food item and trip the home alarm system.  Loud inside and outside sirens go off probably waking every neighbor around me.  Perhaps I should stop setting my home security till I feel better.  🤒 

 

7:00  Breakfast:  Egg, honey dew melon, 1/4 cup fruit smoothy plus vitamins and medication.  F8, H9

 

9:15  House keeper cleans for 1 3/4 hour.   Refill wife's weekly medication boxes.

 

Read Exodus 32 and pray with wife.

 

Neighbor calls and offers to do grocery pickup at 12:30 pm at a larger Kroger store.  Neighbor knows I have not been feeling safe to drive.

 

10:30  Work on online order but can't meet 12:30 deadline. Wait for another opportunity.

 

11:35  Do other computer stuff.

 

12:55  Walk Pepe our dog 1.3 miles around wetland and park trail.  With previous walking around the house, my phone app says I have walked a total 2.17 miles.

 

3:15  I have talked twice before to Medical Guardián salespeople.  I make a third call and order the product today.

 

4:20  NAP - CPAP 0:43  

 

Watch some TV, have dinner and then watch American Idol reveal top 12.  This singing show energizes me.

 

A1, I3, F8, H9, BP4, NP4     HUGS:  YES       Meletonin 3 mg    

 

Today felt a little less tough.

 

11:00  To bed

 

 

 

 

[LarryS]

May 19 – Friday – Day 15 – ZERO VENLAFAXINE

 

12:25 am Up,  CPAP 2:06

 

1:45 am Trying to write on SA but I need some sleep.  Back to bed.

 

3:15 am up.  CPAP 3:27, No rem sleep.

 

7:00 am Breakfast

 

8:00 am Read Psalm 65 and pray with wife.

 

10:00 am  I want to help my wife get some additional clothing.  I bring them out to her to put on and see if they fit.  Three good sized shopping bags get filled with clothing that no longer fits.  I identify that she only has two long leg pant jeans, two black slacks and one short summer pant.  She has lots of tops that still fit.  She has always been a very simple dresser. 

 

10:30 am  Sister arrives to pick up my wife and I to do some clothing shopping.  Sister finds a colorful Hawaii shirt first.  We spend a lot of time looking at pants for the wife.  The selection is dull.  We settled for one white and one other (color?) pant for her to try on.  There is a long line at the dressing rooms to get in.  I sit down to wait; my legs are unusually tiered from walking all over this two-story large store.  In the end she decides not to buy anything.  Oh well, there will be another day.

 

1:00 pm  The three of us go out to lunch at Olive Garden.  My wife and I like the endless soup, salad and bread sticks.  Sister orders something a bit fancier.

 

3:30 pm   We all have a great conversation. Won’t go into details, it is a deep deep dark secret.  😉  Enjoyed our time together greatly.  A1, I8, F3, H1, BP4, NP4

 

My sister says to me, “It’s pretty hot today, how much of the human body is made up of water?  I say 99%.  Oh, then you mean to tell me we are just a big empty bag of hot air without water.

 

We laugh our guts out.  It just came out that way, unplanned.

 

4:00 pm  Create word.doc on Medical Guardian 2.0, to remind me what the best features are.  I am purchasing this item for the safety and security of my wife.  Eye strain and fatigue catch up to me.  Time to rest.

 

5:00 pm End NAP – CPAP 0:59.  I think I may have gotten some rest.  A1, I8, F7, H1, BP 4, NP4.

 

7:15 pm Neither of us is hungry, but we will eat a little and take our medications and vitamins. Dinner:  Left over half can clam chowder (warmed and shared) left over salad I made, left over salad from Olive Garden, left over broccoli with cheese topping warmed up, grapes.  We are well satisfied.

 

9:00  pm Time to relax with some TV.

 

Plans with my sister had been planned weeks in advance.  I was blessed with a very pleasant window of time with her and my wife.

 

Anhedonia has been very low in severity for over a year.  Insomnia has been gradually increasing over the previous months.  Fatigue has been with me prior to starting tapering and cycles with the amount of sleep and other demands in my life.  My mind has the power to push my body with fatigue, but I also know there is a price to pay if I do not maintain some balance.  I do want to avoid sickness brought on by a weakened body.  Head-Pressure, Headache and cognitive fog has been prevalent these previous several months.  I had a window with no head symptoms today, but after 4:00 pm they came crashing back.  My back pain and neck pain have been very minimal in the background.  I enjoyed my window, but now it is time for rest.

 

The most severe symptoms today are:  A1, I8, F7, H1, BP 4, NP4.

 

9:30 pm  Take melatonin 3 mg,  Hugs: Yes

 

To bed 9:43 pm

 

[LarryS]

May 19 – Friday – Day 15 – ZERO VENLAFAXINE

11:35 pm Friday;  CPAP 2:41 Awakened by Pepe with his low guttural sound.   I arise and pet him; he licks me back.  We have a great bond, man and dog.  Pepe is the first dog that I have paid attention to.  Pepe is a 10 lb. cuddler.  He likes to curl up on my lap, when the wife is unavailable.  Pepe loves my wife also.  But he wants something.  I follow him to the dog door; I sense he wants to go outside.  It is 11:35 pm, I hope he does not want to start barking and being a nuisance.  I open the small dog door and he goes out into the back yard and the night.  Pepe is white and black and hard to see in the dark.  I wait patiently by the door.  He comes back close to the dog door, I call, Pepe come.  He ignores me and goes away.  I hope he is not going to wake the neighbors.  I wait patiently by the dog door, that I installed for his predecessor.  I am sure the dogs that have lived here have appreciated the freedom to come and go to the outdoors.  The only restriction is in the night sleeping hours.  But he has awakened me and now I can no longer sleep.  I write about his little stunt that he has led me into.  Oh Pepe, you little rascal.  🥰

[RachelSusan]

@LarryS Pepe sounds like a real cutie.

[LarryS]

May 20 – Saturday – Day 16 – ZERO VENLAFAXINE

 

1:30 am  Back to bed, after first awakening caused by Pepe the dog.

 

5:10 am CPAP 6:11 – 0:59 = 5:10  Get out of bed.

 

6:45 am  Listen to Evolution vs God, presented by Rabbi Manis Friedman.  His presentation had the ring of truth to me.        A1, I5, F7, H7, BP4, NP4

 

9:50 am NAP – CPAP 7:31

 

1:00 pm to 3:00 pm  Attend our friend’s funeral.

 

3:30 pm to bed

 

4:30 pm  NAP  CPAP 0:34  (2 Interruptions during 45-minute nap duration.)

 

6:00 pm Enjoyed a long talk with our eldest daughter who lives in another state.

 

6:50 pm  Pick up large three topping pizza.

 

7:08 pm NAP - CPAP 4:09

 

It has been an unusual day.  

 

A1, I5, F8, H7, BP4, NP4

 

To Bed 9:00 pm    Melatonin 3 mg;  

 

10:45 pm CPAP 5:31 Awaken and get up.

 

11:59 pm Continue wakefulness

[j1290]

13 hours ago, LarryS said:

6:50 pm  Pick up large three topping pizza.

What toppings?  From where?  You can't leave a cliffhhanger like this out there, Larry.  I take pizza very seriously!  I'm going to guess this is a franchise, a carry out deal from pizza hut or dominos?  

[LarryS]

May 21  – Sunday – Day 17 - ZERO VENLAFAXINE

 

0:01 am Continue wakefulness

 

7:00 am Preparing breakfast.  Standing at stove cooking a pancake.  I am feeling shaky, dizzy, unsteady, different than I have felt before.  I sit down before I fall.  I don’t understand what is happening.  I called 911 and the paramedics came and checked me out.  All vital signs are normal.  They ask me to walk, and I say I am feeling better after sitting for a while.  We talk and determine this is from exhaustion.  I decided not to go to the hospital emergency department.  They leave.

 

11:00 am NAP – CPAP 5:31

 

12:15 pm  Daughter and son-in-law pick up wife and I to go to belated birthday celebrations for wife.  She turned 74 on May 8.

 

A1, I5, F8, H7, BP4, NP4

 

The family gathering turns out to be just the event we all needed.  My eldest daughter in another state, unfortunately, and understandably was not there.
 

[LarryS]

15 hours ago, j1290 said:

What toppings?  From where?  You can't leave a cliffhhanger like this out there, Larry.  I take pizza very seriously!  I'm going to guess this is a franchise, a carry out deal from pizza hut or dominos?  

 

Now really @j1290  Didn't you get the memo?

 

I thought it was the perfect cliffhanger.

 

And it was a perfect pizza.

[LarryS]

May 22 - Monday - Day 18 - ZERO VENLAFAXINE

 

Due to the emergency event Sunday morning, and my recognition of exhaustion, I take a break from doing just about everything I can today.

 

I think I am done tracking my life.  Perhaps I should once and for all retire from tracking this journey.

 

I doubt that I will retire from tracking a financial budget and using Quicken to conveniently provide me with information used in the yearly required IRS divulgence.

 

I need some rest.  Life will be much better after rest.

[j1290]

43 minutes ago, LarryS said:

I thought it was the perfect cliffhanger.

Sigh.  It was.  I may never know.    

 

22 minutes ago, LarryS said:

I need some rest.  Life will be much better after rest.

I hope you enjoy your well deserved rest.  Please give us an update when you feel moved, even if it takes a minute.   Always a pleasure, Larry!

[FindRest]

Yes, please take a rest. When you get your strength back and start getting some regular sleep, you may feel like giving us a short update. I am thankful everything checked out with the paramedics. ❤️

[Carmel5]

22 hours ago, LarryS said:

May 22 - Monday - Day 18 - ZERO VENLAFAXINE

 

Due to the emergency event Sunday morning, and my recognition of exhaustion, I take a break from doing just about everything I can today.

 

I think I am done tracking my life.  Perhaps I should once and for all retire from tracking this journey.

 

I doubt that I will retire from tracking a financial budget and using Quicken to conveniently provide me with information used in the yearly required IRS divulgence.

 

I need some rest.  Life will be much better after rest.

Thank you Larry. You deserve the rest your body needs. Best wishes to you and your family.❤