AFPJ: tapering off of Zoloft since January 2018

[AFPJ]

I am a former Special Operations trauma medic, and I was diagnosed with PTSD in 2013, and I’ve  been trying to get off of Zoloft (unsuccessfully) for the last 12 months. I’ve been on the drug for the past four years, and my highest does was 150mg/day. I am currently at 25mg/day. The Veteran’s Administration was so quick to put me on Zoloft, but they never mentioned how difficult it is to get off of it. 

 

My life is stable, and I’m ready to start feeling again. I want to continue healing with natural ways like physical fitness, diet, and mindfulness. And I’ve tried four times to get off of Zoloft this year (2018); each time has been unsuccessful.

 

My first attempt was in January this year, and I tappered from 150mg/day to zero within 4 weeks, and I had horrible brain zaps, anxiety, panic attacks, and fits of anger. I thought I was going to die. But I m found stability again at 100mg/day. 

 

My second attempt was in spring when I tapered from 100mg/day to 75mg/day for 15 days and then to 50mg/day for 15 days. During that taper, I had moderate brain zaps, anxiety, and mood swings. I couldn’t get below 50mg/day without melting down or arguing with my wife. I leveled off at 50mg/day at the end of spring without any further problems (except still being on the SSRI). 

 

My third attempt was over the summer (2018). I tried tapering from 50mg/day to 25mg/day, which lasted a few weeks. Once again I had brain zaps, anxiety, and I was super quick to anger with my with and children. It was horrible. 

 

For my my fourth attempt, I spoke with a VA psych doc, who couldn’t tell me how to get off it, but said to listen to my body. What ever that means. So, I tapered from 50mg/day to 37.5mg/day for a month, then to 25mg/day for a month, then to 12.5mg/day for a month. I lost it a month into the 12.5mg/day. I had crazy mood swings, I was depressed, and I was fighting with my wife over nothing. Thankfully though, the brain zaps went away. I couldn’t hang at 12.5mg/day anymore, so I’m back up to 25mg/day as a maintenance dose. I’ll sit at that dose for another month or so before starting to taper again. 

 

The VA is recommending that I switch to Lexapro, and then taper further from there. But I don’t want to go from bad to worse. 

 

Ill keep everyone posted with my progress. Know that you are not alone in the struggle with SSRI addiction. It is real, and it is difficult trying to get off of the medication. Keep going. Keep fighting. Keep pressing forward. 

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by ChessieCat
reworded ****

[ChessieCat]

Hi AFPJ and welcome to SA,

 

SA recommends tapering by no more than 10% of the current dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.   Why taper by 10% of my dosage?   If the drug is taken away too quickly we can experience withdrawal symptoms.  You may have experienced withdrawal symptoms that you didn't connect to withdrawal, especially since we tend to notice the major symptoms, like the brain zaps.  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Tips for tapering off Zoloft (sertraline)

 

Changing drugs to taper is generally not recommended.  You can end up getting withdrawal symptoms from the first drug, start up/side effects/bad reaction to the new drug.  You will not know what is causing any issues.  And it can end up taking longer to get off than if you had slowly and carefully tapered the original drug.

 

The more times you change your doses by going up and down the more sensitive your nervous system can become.  The effect is cumulative.  Previous experience is not a guide to how things will go in the future.

 

Questions:  What are your current symptoms?  Are they bearable?  How is your sleep?

 

28 minutes ago, AFPJ said:

I’m back up to 25mg/day as a maintenance dose. I’ll sit at that dose for another month or so before starting to taper again. 

 

At SA we prefer the term "lowest effective dose".  The medical professional use the term "therapeutic dose" which is an arbitrary term that the pharmaceutical train the doctors to use.

 

Because of all the dose changes you have made in a 1 year period it would be a good idea to hold at the current dose, assuming that your withdrawal symptoms are bearable, for at least 3 months possibly even up to 6 months.  This will give your brain a chance to adapt to all the changes that it has been struggling to deal with.  To help you to put that figure into perspective if you had commencing tapering from 150mg at the 10% of current dose every 4 weeks at the start of 2018 your current dose would be have been about 38mg at the end of December 2018.  You would have been at about 25mg at the end of April 2019.   Tapering Calculator - Online

 

It is much better to hold for longer than to risk tapering again too soon.  If you get impatient and think that you want to taper again after about 3 months I suggest that you make a small tester reduction of between 1% and 2.5% and see how things go.  This way you will reduce the risk of upsetting your CNS by tapering too early.  Rhi's "Start Small, Listen to Your Body" Taper Plan

 

Healing is not linear it happens in a Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Withdrawal Normal Description

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

I will add some more links in the next post.

 

[ChessieCat]

This is your own Introduction topic where you can ask questions about your own situation and journal your progress.

 

Please create a drug signature using the following format.  Keep it simple (NO diagnoses or symptoms please - thank you):

• details for last 2 years - dates, ALL drugs, doses
• summary for older than 2 years - just years and drug/s

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

If you don't know exact dates, please put early, mid, late month.  Please do not use seasons as this is an international site.

 

During any taper, there will be times of discomfort.  We strongly encourage members to learn and use non drug coping techniques to help get through tough times.

 

Understanding what is happening helps us to not get caught up with the second fear, or fear of the fear.  This happens when we experience sensations in our body and because we don't understand them we are scared of them and then start to panic.

 

This document has a diagram of the body explaining what happens in the body when we become anxious:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/docs/AnxietySelfHelp.pdf

 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 

Audio FEMALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Audio MALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

dealing-with-emotional-spirals

 

Dr Claire Weekes suffered from anxiety and learned and taught ways of coping.  There are videos available on YouTube.

 

Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

CBT Course:  An Introductory Self-Help Course in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy

 

Resources:  Centre for Clinical Interventions (PDF modules that you can work through, eg:  Depression, Distress Intolerance, Health Anxiety, Low Self-Esteem, Panic Attacks, Perfectionism, Procrastination, Social Anxiety, Worrying)

 

On 4/28/2017 at 4:03 AM, brassmonkey said:

 

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety.  The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain.  Making it so there is nothing we can do about them.  They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like.  They do, however, react very well to being ignored.  That's the concept behind AAF.  Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them.  Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets.  What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

 

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest.  At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them.  After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them.  So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

 

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work.  I hope you give it a try.

 

 

 

[AFPJ]

So good. Thank you for your response. The Medical Community, at least in my experience, has zero clue about how to bring people off of SSRIs. This has been a horrible year, but I have hope for the future. 

[ChessieCat]

You are very welcome.

 

My first post was about more immediate information.  The second post about how to help yourself.  This post is about things that help you to understand what is happening.

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

On 12/4/2015 at 2:41 AM, apace41 said:

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.  

 

AND

 

On 8/31/2011 at 5:28 AM, Rhiannon said:

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

 

[ChessieCat]

3 minutes ago, AFPJ said:

The Medical Community, at least in my experience, has zero clue about how to bring people off of SSRIs.

 

Very few medical professionals understand tapering and withdrawal.  That is why this site exists.

 

When you get a chance you might like to check out my website (link in my drug signature).  It has links to thinks I have found on the internet.

 

And these are very eye opening.  Gwen Olsen was a pharmaceutical representative for 15 years:

 

Gwen Olsen YouTube videos:

 

Interview:  Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher (51 minutes)

 

Manipulating Doctors (10 minutes)

 

We are trained to misinform (6 minutes)

[AFPJ]

I’ve learned more about getting off Zoloft from your links and posts than I have from my own health care providers. 

 

I find it terrifying that the medical community is so quick to prescribe a SSRI, but it knows very little about coming off them. 

 

Im ready to be a recovery survivor. Had I known that getting off of psychiatric medication is such a long, slow, and painful process, I would have never started. 

 

Nothing was ever mentioned about withdraw symptoms, the anxiety, frustration, mood changes, depression, anger, rage, and brain zaps. It’s been a long, hard year. 

 

Is anyone aware of any class action against the drug manufacturers? I know a lot of people are suffering from the lies we were told. 

[ChessieCat]

Events, controversies, actions

 

In the media

 

Recently there was a submission made to the Scottish Parliament.  urgent-request-make-a-submission-to-the-scottish-government-re-harm-done-dependance-and-withdrawal-you-dont-even-have-to-be-from-scotland.  They were accepting submissions from people from around the world, not just UK.  I submitted mine.  This page has links to the the submitted documents.  http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 

 

Some of them are heartbreaking to read, people who have only taken 1 or a few tablets and had a adverse reaction, people who have had an adverse reaction and the drug has been increased, people who have ended up on an incredibly crazy cocktail of drugs.  We have some members here who are on crazy cocktails and when you check the interactions (sometimes 1, 2 or 3 major ones) and duplications you just wonder what was the doctor thinking.  But as Alto (this site's founder) says, if a person turns up at the doctor's complaining the only thing the doctor knows to do is to write a prescription for a drug. 

 

I originally created my website as an attachment for my email-campaign.  Some of the attachments have been deleted because there is limited upload allowed per SA member. 

 

I've had two completely different experiences.  I CTed citalopram and felt great for a few months then got hit with the withdrawal flu and was bedridden for 2.5 weeks and lost 8kgs.  It wasn't until I joined SA that I made the connection that it was withdrawal.  I ended up on Pristiq.

 

I reduced my Pristiq from 100mg to 50mg and for 2 weeks I experienced severe cog fog, and even walking took my whole concentration.  I joined SA but didn't updose as suggested because I was trying, through the brain fog, to learn about what was happening.  A couple of days after joining I got to the stage that I was unable to type.  Having been a typist for 40+ years I knew that something was really wrong.  I was very thankful for SA's suggestion.  I went and took extra Pristiq.  Astoundingly after only about 4 hours I was able to type again and the brain fog was lifting.  Because I had a benchmark I knew that it was because of the drug. 

[bubble]

3 hours ago, AFPJ said:

Nothing was ever mentioned about withdraw symptoms, the anxiety, frustration, mood changes, depression, anger, rage, and brain zaps. It’s been a long, hard year. 

 

If you mention this withdrawal symptoms to your doctor, he or she will most likely tell you it is your "original illness" coming back. If you say you have never experienced anything like it before starting drugs they will tell you the drugs unmasked your symptoms.

 

They add new diagnoses to people and new and more drugs. And price people believe them and believe they are horribly mentally ill and have terrible diagnoses for which they need more drugs.

 

That's why doctors say they don't see people having difficulty withdrawing. Some people themselves claim they never have problems stopping a drug but then you see them taking 2,3,4 or more drugs which they started taking after they stopped the original drug "without problems".

 

I think this in part explains why there is so little awareness and understanding of what is really going on with these drugs.

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by ChessieCat
corrected typo

[ChessieCat]

On 1/4/2019 at 5:37 PM, AFPJ said:

I know a lot of people are suffering from the lies we were told. 

 

the-worst-of-doctors-threadstatements-that-defy-belief