Wesofthewest: I’m in the thick of it, could use advice

[Wesofthewest]

Hi all,

 

I am so glad I found this site. I am dealing with what I now know is ssri withdrawal and this place has given me hope, knowledge, and peace of mind. It’s crazy what these drugs can do. To start, I will give you my story. 

 

Looking back, I grew up with low self esteem and emotional issues that I never faced. Through school and going into college, I still managed to adjust well, make friends, and didn’t have especially bad anxiety or anything. In high school and college I abused alcohol frequently, probably due to emotional distress. I never was addicted, but was a binge drinker. In my 2nd year of college, even drinking became stressful and not fun. I began to have a lot of social anxiety, and couldn’t handle any alcohol. Depression started to set in, and I was in denial for a long time. Because of this, I let it get worse, I let people hurt me, and I ended up in the ER because I realized I couldn’t function and was suicidal. There they decided to send me to an outpatient treatment facility, and there my medication history began.

 

I first was given seetraline, then Effexor, neither for longer than a week. The side effects were too much. So the doc deicided to try Prozac with me. That one seemed to have me feeling better, so I stayed on that for the time being. Started at 20mg around May 2017, 40mg for a few months, then 60mg for a long duration. I was only at this outpatient thing for a couple months, then I started seeing a new doctor. She basically just kept giving me the Prozac, and I’d just say I’m fine. I guess I felt fine, but I was more or less a zombie that just went to work and slept. The thing is though that Prozac is what lifted me out of the horrible depression I was in, and helped my anxiety. I thought of it as miraculous. The one thing that made it a lot less miraculous was that I gained nearly 100 pounds in a year! This prompted my doctor to lower my dose to 40mg, which made me realize how much Prozac dulled me out. I felt so much more awake and clear headed, so I figured I should get off the meds totally! It’ll only be good news, or so I thought. 

 

So I went down to 20mg a couple months later around November 2018. Afterwards is when withdrawal started to hit. I really noticed it while visiting family for Christmas. I just wasn’t myself. The anxiety was back in full force, and that was enough to hinder my social ability. It sucks to think family members see me like that and don’t know what’s going on, that maybe they just think I’m mentally ill. Oh well. I went down to 10mg in February, and jumped clear off in March. 

 

I now know this was far to fast of a taper, but I didn’t know this at the time. My doctor obviously didn’t either, but she probably also thinks Prozac doesn’t give people withdrawals. Once at 10mg I started to have the very sever symptoms. Extreme anxiety, irritability, anger, sensitivity to movement light and sounds, depersonalization, tightness in chest and neck, paranoia, numbness, and headaches (sometimes long lasting). Once I went to 0 they got a little worse for a bit, and it was gradually improved since then. I’ve only been totally off the Prozac for about a month right now. 

 

My god has it improved since a month ago! I still wouldn’t say I’m doing well by any means but I at least feel kind of normal. I felt like everybody was staring at me when I went outside or drove around at first (still kind of do sometimes), so much so that I just felt overwhelmed and crazy. I quit my job, not super important since it was just a silly job to pay rent. All I can really say about the symptoms is that they are still there, and it feels like they’ve been gradually receding ever so slowly. I seem to have the windows and waves, but mine have been short, maybe only hour long windows sometimes. I just pray that I will not only feel normal again but find real happiness and relief.

 

I’m currently taking D3 and fish oil daily, nothing else. Does anyone have any advice about those supplements and others I could try? That would be great. I’m also just wondering if my story sounds familiar to anyone and what to expect. But most of all, it’s just nice to get this all out. Feel free to ask me questions!

[Gridley]

Hello, Wesofthewest, and welcome to SA.

 

I'm very happy your symptoms have improved and are gradually receding.  That is a very encouraging sign.

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

Here is some information to help you understand the withdrawal symptoms you are experiencing.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

 The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

These explain it really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

   On 8/30/2011 at 2:28 PM,  Rhiannon said: 

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

AND

 

   On 12/3/2015 at 10:41 AM,  apace41 said: 

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.  

 

Regarding supplements, we don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system.  Magnesium glycinate is a good form of magnesium.  

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

While it is often a first response to stress to take a B-Complex, in withdrawal it can be overstimulating.

 

Hypersensitive to B Vitamin or B-Complex  

 

If the D3 is agreeing with you, that shouldn't be a problem.  Epsom salt baths can also be very helpful.

 

Epsom salts baths - another way to relax with magnesium - Symptoms ...

 

While some members report good results from strenuous exercise, we generally advise a gentle walk in nature, perhaps 30 minutes daily.  Avoid alcohol and caffeine.

 

Here is some information about non-drug coping methods and dealing with the anxiety you mentioned.

 

 Non-drug techniques to cope

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)
 

CBT Course:  An Introductory Self-Help Course in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy
 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes
 

VIDEO:  Peace from Nervous Suffering - Claire Weekes (1 hour) (http://sendvid.com/vgquc1dg)

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help …

10 minute Restorative Yoga for Relaxation | Up the wall

 

This is your introduction topic -- the place for you to ask questions, record symptoms, share your progress, and connect with other members of the SA community.  I hope you’ll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation.  I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but I am glad that you found us.

 

 

 

 

 

[Wesofthewest]

Gridley, thank you for that. I have added a signature. I may have to try magnesium, I’ve heard lots of people say that’s a good one. 

[Wesofthewest]

I feel like I am sort of turning corners, and getting some confidence back. But then I am hit with some kind of external stressor and I start to feel just as bad as before. For example, I had to make a long drive to go work today and driving in traffic just feels overwhelming. I feel crazy and I feel like everybody notices, and even though I know it’s ridiculous I can’t shake the thought. This is tough! 1 and a half months in. At this rate, I bet I won’t feel too capable of anything for a few more months at least. 

[Kronos18]

Hi mate.How are you feeling?

[Wesofthewest]

On 4/24/2019 at 4:30 PM, Kronos18 said:

Hi mate.How are you feeling?

It’s hard to say man, I’ve been able to be more productive recently, working hard like I used to. But still plagued by strange anxiety and moods all day. I cut out all the sugar in my diet and that made a massive difference though, I would try that if you eat/drink sugar. It seems like it was overstimulating me. Now im only using artificial sweeteners. How are you doing? Are you seeing any improvements?

[Kronos18]

I’m glad you are feeling better mate.I have some improvements, right now i’m in a bad wave with severe anxiety, restlessness, tingling in fingers, diziness, weakness, fatigue etc.Hope it will be ok for both of us.We will get there no matter what

[Wesofthewest]

youre right. I have to keep reminding myself that I have to live in and for my future self. Eventually I’ll be able to look back on all this, and so will you. 

[Wesofthewest]

Started a new job yesterday. Extremely anxious, but I was able to play it cool and get through the first day. I feel like I’m at least capable of working right now, which is good. Still dealing with anxiety but I am still improving. 

[Wesofthewest]

Does anyone else get waves of increased anxiety and DP that go away after a few hours? I did today at work

[ChessieCat]

Yes, waves can last for a very short time as can windows.

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by ChessieCat

[Wesofthewest]

Thank you for the reply chessiecat 

[Maca44]

Your story does sound familiar to me, its amazing really how we cope with stuff in our younger years but don't always deal with it we just muddle through. I guess things catch up on us but by that time it's all kind of blurred and we get this terrible anxiety & depression which seems out of the blue.

 

Sounds like your doing OK and I hope it keeps improving.  

[Wesofthewest]

Update: window/wave cycle getting shorter, hoping this continues.

[Wesofthewest]

Been feeling better all the time. Things I notice the most at this point are physical exhaustion and fatigue, and an annoying lack of confidence socially. I still have trouble talking to people, but it has gotten better. So I’m sure I’ll get more confident as time goes on. The physical symptoms suck, I work long days a lot of the time and I ache so bad afterwards. 

 

It truly does get better with time, however, so anyone going through this. Keep your head up

[Wesofthewest]

Gotten so much better at dealing with stresses too. Driving especially, and dealing with rude customers at work is much easier. I can kind of keep my head about things now

[Cocopuffz17]

55 minutes ago, Wesofthewest said:

Gotten so much better at dealing with stresses too. Driving especially, and dealing with rude customers at work is much easier. I can kind of keep my head about things now

That’s great to hear! I’m feeling the same way. It gets better week by week for me. But the fatigue can be really challenging. 

[Wesofthewest]

On 8/17/2019 at 5:13 PM, Cocopuffz17 said:

That’s great to hear! I’m feeling the same way. It gets better week by week for me. But the fatigue can be really challenging. 

The fatigue is the worst. And people don’t understand, they think I’m lazy. I’m like, I’ve been out of shape most of my life but this is something else!

[Cocopuffz17]

13 hours ago, Wesofthewest said:

The fatigue is the worst. And people don’t understand, they think I’m lazy. I’m like, I’ve been out of shape most of my life but this is something else!

Yep, I find huge improvements when I go outside in the sun (increasing my vitamin D). I already take a vitamin D supplement daily, but this seems to decrease my fatigue. Being more in shape definitely helps, but ya I know what you mean. It’s uncontrollable and hits hard.  

[Wesofthewest]

After taking probiotics for a few days, I am feeling way better. Many have said on here that AD’s mess up your gut microbiome, and I now believe that 100%. It’s actually really surprising how much better I feel now than just a few days ago. I went from holding on to on the road to recovery. Thank you cocopuffz17 and others for giving me this information. It’s made a big difference for me. 

 

If you’re in withdrawal definitely take probiotics. And maybe also some vitamin d and fish oil. I take those too.  

[Cocopuffz17]

7 hours ago, Wesofthewest said:

After taking probiotics for a few days, I am feeling way better. Many have said on here that AD’s mess up your gut microbiome, and I now believe that 100%. It’s actually really surprising how much better I feel now than just a few days ago. I went from holding on to on the road to recovery. Thank you cocopuffz17 and others for giving me this information. It’s made a big difference for me. 

 

If you’re in withdrawal definitely take probiotics. And maybe also some vitamin d and fish oil. I take those too.  

 

That is awesome to hear!!! I’m glad you saw improvements so fast. When I compare my two tapering attempts in my life.

 

#1 no nutrition changes, lasted 3 weeks (one dose reduction 20mg to 15mg) before I couldn’t take it and had to go back on.

 

#2 changed my nutrition which in turn changed my microbiome and supplemented and I am now 8 months off and no intention of ever going back on the medication! 

 

Everyday that passes is another day closer to being healed !! 

[Cocopuffz17]

@Wesofthewest How are you doing?

[Wesofthewest]

2 hours ago, Cocopuffz17 said:

@Wesofthewest How are you doing?

I’m glad you asked! It’s been tumultuous the past couple months but every step back has been two steps forward. I’ve had a lot of issues with nutrition this whole time. Recently went to the doctor I felt so bad, I thought maybe I have the flu. Told me I’m anemic and need to take iron. I got this stuff that’s called “multi mineral caps”, and have been taking daily to make sure my nutrition is optimal. That made a big difference though and now I’ve improved to

the point I’m almost back to where I was before all this. 
 

Hardest things still are driving without a lot of anxiety, talking to unfamiliar people, finding the energy to do chores and take care of myself. I plan on taking til the summer to continue to just work 30 hours a week and spend my off time working on myself. By summer I’m going to be back in school. anyway, how has the past 2 months been for you? Improvements? I hope so.

[mstimc]

Hi West

Have you tried nay kind of CBT or talked to a therapist to support your recovery?

[Cocopuffz17]

10 hours ago, Wesofthewest said:

I’m glad you asked! It’s been tumultuous the past couple months but every step back has been two steps forward. I’ve had a lot of issues with nutrition this whole time. Recently went to the doctor I felt so bad, I thought maybe I have the flu. Told me I’m anemic and need to take iron. I got this stuff that’s called “multi mineral caps”, and have been taking daily to make sure my nutrition is optimal. That made a big difference though and now I’ve improved to

the point I’m almost back to where I was before all this. 
 

Hardest things still are driving without a lot of anxiety, talking to unfamiliar people, finding the energy to do chores and take care of myself. I plan on taking til the summer to continue to just work 30 hours a week and spend my off time working on myself. By summer I’m going to be back in school. anyway, how has the past 2 months been for you? Improvements? I hope so.

That’s great that you are making strides in the right direction! Well that’s good you found out what was making things worse. I found absorption of nutrients and the gut take a massive hit from these medications. 
 

In time it will get better. I remember not being able to do one push up because of monsterous fatigue. I can now do 100+ each day.

 

Yes, my baseline has improved and my autoimmune condition is still reversing in the right direction. Still get waves here and there. Brain fog sucks. But it is getting better each week. I find when my nutrition slips..... I get headaches and tinnitus the next day. 

 

All the best to you! Keep it up! Everyday that passes is another day closer to being healed! 

[Wesofthewest]

Does anyone else ever feel overwhelmed by emotion? Today was very stressful and hectic at work and I really let it get to me. Not really in any outward way but more of a subtle thing you’d notice if you knew me. But I feel a little out of control with anger, and it sucks. Maybe talking to a counselor would be smart if anyone else has done that. Anyway, still progression. Just tumultuous 

[Wesofthewest]

On 12/24/2019 at 6:49 AM, mstimc said:

Hi West

Have you tried nay kind of CBT or talked to a therapist to support your recovery?

No, I have not. I am really considering it, however. Have you used therapy through your withdrawal and did it help you heal emotionally?

[mstimc]

5 hours ago, Wesofthewest said:

No, I have not. I am really considering it, however. Have you used therapy through your withdrawal and did it help you heal emotionally?

Hi West

 

Yes, I found a therapist who was familiar with withdrawal and CBT techniques.  I believed I had to address my anxiety and OCD at the same time as my taper or I'd just be back in the same place I was before I started meds.  That really worked for me. 

[Wesofthewest]

On 1/13/2020 at 3:28 AM, mstimc said:

Hi West

 

Yes, I found a therapist who was familiar with withdrawal and CBT techniques.  I believed I had to address my anxiety and OCD at the same time as my taper or I'd just be back in the same place I was before I started meds.  That really worked for me. 

Need to find one that’s familiar with withdrawal for sure. I’m a believer in cbt and changing your thinking. Thank you for letting me know that

[Wesofthewest]

I honestly think I’m out of withdrawal. I figured out I was severely malnourished after the past few years, with anemia stemming from b12 and iron deficiency. The reason this happened to me must be intestinal, bacterial overgrowth or perhaps IBS. Probiotics is effectively treating that problem, and vitamins are useful now whereas before taking probiotics I would never benefit from vitamins. I am taking b12, vitamin C, folate, and iron intermittently as these are the nutrients necessary for proper red blood cell formation. My anemia is slowly going away, and I feel so clear and like myself. Kind of like I felt before drugs, just with the burden of constant worry and doubt. Emotionally I still have lots of room to improve. 
 

In case you want to know how to tell if you could be anemic as well, I knew because I had

•extreme shortness of breath

•glossitis with pale tongue

•dry and tired feeling eyes

•constant irritation and anxiety

•numbness in feet after sitting (and cold feet)

•muscle weakness

•paranoia 

 

these symptoms are all subsiding now. I’m not sure if my story is even really as much of a withdrawal story anymore. It kind of seems like I just had malnutrition this whole time. I think I did as a teenager as well. Anyways, I will be sure to check back in in due time!

 

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, Wes. Seems that you probably had withdrawal symptoms while you were tapering Prozac in December 2018 and withdrawal syndrome through the fall of 2019, with typical waves and windows of recovery.

 

It's also possible that at the same time, you had nutritional issues that you've now resolved. It's possible those nutritional deficiencies were why you were taking Prozac in the first place. Vitamin B12 deficiencies can cause neurological symptoms. I'm glad you've found the keys to remedying those nutritional issues.

 

Because you're feeling better, I added our cheerful "here comes the sun" symbol ☼ to the title of your Intro topic, to show you're recovering.

 

Please continue to let us know how you're doing. I hope you will add your story to our Recovery Success Stories eventually!

[Wesofthewest]

Thank you altostrata. I do want to add that my experience isn’t especially common, but it is always worth considering lack of vitamins especially b vitamins, when dealing with neurological distress. My experience I say my experience isn’t common, is because I didn’t see real releif until I starting taking intrinsic factor with my b12, which suggests I may have pernicious anemia. I do hope my ramblings can help someone!

[Elyssa143]

@Wesofthewest

Very interesting about the gut health and vitamins.  I am actually trying very hard to work on this now. Which probiotics are u taking? Have u found them helpful? How do u know any of this is helping? Did you have any depression or intrusive suicidal thoughts? I definitely have deficiencies but my gut health is awful too and i eat very well but ive had issues for many years. What are you doing to help your gut? And which b12 are u taking? Thanks so much. I have a very swollem pale tongue as well! And many of the symptoms you list. I look forward to hearing back

[Wesofthewest]

hello Elyssa143, I am taking NewRythmn probiotics, which can be bought on amazon. I consider those trustworthy although it is hard to say in my situation whether it really helped or not. When I started it seemed like it relieved symptoms (to a small degree). A couple tips on those though, take them with just food, no supplements to ensure survival, and they also definitely don’t need to be taken every day. If you’re adding that to your routine I would say 2x a week or once a week. 
 

I continually had moderate anxiety and depression, paranoia and even some delusions until I started taking the b12 intrinsic factor. The main symptom that bothered me this whole time was severe social anxiety. It felt like I could t handle other people’s deals. I immediately would go to thinking about how they don’t like me, over read facial expressions, and It ruined any chance of me having a positive experience. I just felt like everything was a bigger deal than it was, which ties into the paranoia. 

 

as you can maybe tell by the past tense, I do feel like I’m beginning to overcome these things! The b12 With Intrinsic factor I’m  taking is by progressive labs, it can be found on PureFormulas website. This also contains folate which is also important for red blood cell formation. On that note, I also take some other vitamins to make sure I have my “blood nutrients”. Iron (maybe once a week), vitamin c daily, and a b complex once a week. The b complex is important if you’re supplementing b12, because the excess b12 can cause lower levels of other b vitamins. Once a week is sufficient, and in general it’s best not to overdo these things. I take the b12 once a day at the moment, but may move to every other day. Now In my experience with that stuff, you’ll know on the first dose whether it gave your body a much needed boost of b12. I felt as if I woke up from a coma that day, it was weird but in a good way. 
 

As far as helping my gut, I just make sure to remember the probiotics, and also I’ve been eating more vegetables and plants, more fiber. That probiotic brand I mentioned contains fiber as well which is nice!

[Wesofthewest]

still continuing to try to find my way. Made a good discovery yesterday. I felt Ill and threw up my lunch that I had eaten 7 hours before, and all the food in my stomach was completely undigested. The condition I hypothesized I had earlier actually pertains to autoimmune gastritis, which leads to low stomach acid, and low peptin and intrinsic factor. I’ve read from multiple sources that you need these things to properly absorb b12. So, I went to the store and picked up a thing of HCL tablets. They also have peptin. I took that with my food and my b12 pills and although I was skeptical at first I think that it really helped me absorb the b12. Had a relatively good day today. at this point, I’m reluctant to confirm my suspicions with a doctor because of my history of “mental illness“, but I may work up the courage to go. I’d probably just tell them I have severe stomach pains, so they take a look. I’m still learning how best to deal with my situation, but I do think I’m making progress.

[Wesofthewest]

Now I think I was wrong about b12 or iron causing the majority of issues for me. People who have gastritis (damage to the stomach) also sometimes have protein deficiency, which is apparently quite unpleasant. On that vein, I took my hcl/peptin again today with 2 steaks (delicious), and it sure felt like that helped more than anything else I’ve tried so far. I’d even say today I feel at peace compared to yesterday. Got a lot of stuff done today that I’d been putting off, and I didn’t have to force myself. 
 

amino acids you get from consumed protein are needed as precursors to make dopamine and serotonin. So not having enough AAs could for sure cause terrible mental symptoms. I’m going to simply continue to do what I’m doing, with a daily protein shake added. 

 

This kind of stuff makes me think... it’s a conspiracy theory but what if SSRIs damage the stomach? That would explain why people have crazy mental issues after going off; no longer able to create dopamine and serotonin, and no more recycling. My case is a terrible example, because I’m absolutely sure my problems began before I went on Prozac. I just wanted to throw my theory out there lol! At the very least they need to be studied much much more.