BadMedicine: tapering off sertraline / Zoloft and olanzapine / Zyprexa

[BadMedicine]

Hi @Hanna72. Thank-you for your post. It really helps having others point out where you have succeeded. Sometimes it is so hard to see this yourself, as you get bogged down in what you haven’t been able to do and lose sight of what you have managed to accomplish. You are right - this might not be for life. Given the right circumstances who knows what might be possible. I wish you good luck with your continued taper and hope, if it is the right thing for you that you manage to free yourself from the drugs. In the meantime try not to dwell on the fact you are still on drugs but enjoy your life the best you can. That’s what I am trying to do as well. 
Great quote as well. I will draw on that when times get tough. 

 

Thank-you @FireflyFyte. It was not an easy decision to go back to 2.5mg as I had worked hard to get down to 1.8mg but now I have done it I can tell it was the right decision.
 

Good luck with your taper. As rRfsc has previously said you do need to remain vigilant to symptoms of illness coming back during a taper. Hopefully it won’t happen but if it does my advice would be to updose at least a bit until they are under control. Pushing onwards can result in disaster and having to go back to a much higher dose. I wish you all the best. 

[hayduke]

My life has changed so much since I started my taper.  Partly by design and largely by circumstance.

If work is too stressful to taper well, is the problem work or the taper?

I am sorry all you wonderful ladies are getting stuck at 2.5mg.  It is still so much better than higher doses.  I would suggest just hanging out for a while and seeing what resolves of its own accord along the way.

Edited January 21, 2023 by hayduke

[BadMedicine]

Hi @hayduke. Thanks for your message. It’s really good to hear you are doing so much better since you got off this medication.
 

Work has definitely played a role in me having to go back up to 2.5mg. I had been quite stable on 1.8 for about 7 months before I started this job. I have thought about leaving on several occasions and getting a less demanding role. I currently work as a scientist but I would be happy just working in a coffee shop I think. Somehow I can’t quite bring myself to do it as then I feel that the drugs/illness has won. We’ll see how it goes on 2.5mg. I feel stable at the moment but if things get any worse I might have to consider giving up the job. 2.5mg is OK in terms of still being able to feel emotions and with respect to sluggishness. I wouldn’t want to go any higher though. 
 

Whether the job has any bearing on being able to get below 1.8mg though I am not sure. I have tried before and had to reinstate. It might be that that is my lowest threshold for keeping psychotic symptoms away. But never say never. As you say could be due to environment.

 

This is where I currently find myself. It is currently acceptable and I’ll just have to wait to see what the future brings.

[Rrsfc]

I know too well what you're dealing with, not wanting to accept the ilness in your life, or trying to fight it. I am still accepting it and it's not easy. I compare myself with other people and I feel bad but then I remind myself there is a reason for not being able to achieve that much and it gets better. Or someone eles reminds me of it and I feel validated... It's not a race between you or the ilness in which you have to win, the challenge in my opinion is accepting the ilness as a vulnerable parte of yourself that needs care, that needs you to take it easy and always be vigilant. You must know and respect your own personal limits, even though you feel you should be able to do more. Maybe you should but you can't or you will suffer even more if you have a crisis and have to recover from that.

 

Whatever decision you make about your job it doesn't need to be permanent. You can experiment a bit and try to find something you feel well doing. I struggle with low self-esteem even though I give 100% in everything I do. And I find that having interesting new personal projects helps, but I have to accept my limits, I cannot push too hard in anything, be it sports, work, housework, projects, etc. I must at all times have balance and this is hard to achieve... So give yourself a big hug and love yourself each day, by not pushing yourself over the threshold of what you can do without endangering your mental health. If you have any tips regarding self-esteem I am really interested 😂.

[Venkat]

Hi @BadMedicine although I still have a long way to go before I can give any support to others, I have a strong feeling you will stabilize well on 2.5mg. It is a matter of some time before you start feeling stable, healthy, happy and enjoying your work and life. Maybe sometime later you can give a thought whether to go ahead with tapering or not. My best wishes with you always. 

 

🙏

[BadMedicine]

@Rrsfc and @Venkat. Thank-you for your support. It is much appreciated. 
You are right @Rrsfc it is very hard to accept that you have to compromise the way you live your life because of illness. Sorry that you are struggling with it too. Although fwiw from reading your posts I think you do a lot of good work with your life. You work on your personal growth continually as well as helping others by raising awareness of lifestyle changes that can help improve the lifestyles of people diagnosed with severe mental illness and you should be very proud of that.
I am still very much fighting it - I think - and find it very hard to make decisions that take me further away from what I did and who I was before being ill. I really need to change my thinking to what can I do to live my best and happiest life within the realms of what I can do. It doesn’t help that my Mum doesn’t seem to realise that I am much less resilient than I used to be and every time I bring up that I am struggling with work and that I don’t feel I can continue with the job I don’t get much support for the idea. Fortunately my husband is more understanding. I will give it some time but I know in my heart of hearts that the best thing would be to try a less stressful occupation. Whether I can bring myself to do it is another matter!! The ironic thing is I don’t think it even makes me that happy. We have it so engrained within us that what we do and what we have signifies our worth and I feel that because of this, if I give up my career that somehow I am a lesser person. When in reality it would free up emotional energy to do the things that are most important - spending quality time with family and friends which I’m sure would actually result in more fulfilment. It’s a mindset that is hard to change that’s for sure! 🤣

 

In terms of self esteem I’m afraid I don’t have any tips. Other than to try to practice gratitude for what is good in your life. It’s not about what you do relative to others but what you do to make yourself proud. I’d say it’s pretty much guaranteed that other people think far more of you than you do of yourself. Try to recognise that in yourself too. If only I could practice what I preach eh!

 

@Venkat. Thank-you for your kind words. I am stable at the moment on 2.5mg and I hope you are right and it continues that way! I definitely can’t taper, though with my life at the moment but given the right circumstances you never know. 

 

[Rrsfc]

Hi, I have been reflecting on your words for the last few days. The way you pictured me was so nice I was blown away, I don't see myself like that 😂. Thank you! And you're right, we must begin to look at ourselves and see the qualities other see in us. In you I see a resilient, intelligent person, who is invested in life and in people. I see someone who can make a lot of effords and push herself to the limits. I admire your strength. You seem like you need time to regroup, to figure things out. The solutions will come to you eventually. I feel that "career void" you mention, I do a clerical job when I did a completely different thing before, much more in tune with my skills and personality. But I learned to like what I do. Volunteering is very fulfilling and it helps to feel that void. I've been trying to get better at my job too, instead of fighting it I'm embracing it and I am proud of my little achievements. But to feel good about myself I must keep evolving and that is tiresome sometimes. I should be able to love myself no matter what I do or don't do. Yoga has been helping me in that sense, to be more mindful of my body, we hug ourselves in the end of the relaxation moment and that practice has helped me too. Now I hug myself almost everyday. Your path resonates a lot with mine, I see a lot of myself in you, I am sure you are going to find you balance. One exercise I had to do was to analyse my relationships and see if there were people influencing me in a bad way. I got to the conclusion that I must shield myself from some family members who tend to have high expectations for me that I cannot live up to. I had to come up with my own expectations apart from theirs, based on what I can actually do. Step by step you can go on and keep adding things to the list of what you can do that won't harm you... It takes a lot of time, I am glad you have such an understanding husband, mine is also like that. It is he that tells me sometimes I must not set the bar so high and it helps a lot. These people are gold in our lives, we need to hear that.We don't have a disability but we have vulnerabilities that can turn into symptoms, we must take really good care of ourselves. I hope everything gets clearer on your head, it's a proces, give it time. Sending you a big hug, keep us updated on your progress!

[BadMedicine]

Thank- you @Rrsfcfor your lovely post. It made me cry when I read it. I, too, struggle to see my good qualities so it’s really nice when someone else points them out to you.
I am giving a lot of thought to my current circumstances and am trying to decide what is most important in my life. I need to come to a decision that prioritises these things. It will mean giving something up but I am trying to do too much at the moment and it isn’t sustainable. It’s really useful to hear about your experience with your family as it’s made me realise that  I need to base these decisions on what’s best for myself and my husband and not what other people expect of me. I am a proverbial people pleaser, that has trouble saying no to things so it won’t be easy. But not everything in life that is good for you is easy!

I like the sound of your yoga practice. Self love and compassion is so important. There is someone at work who says nice things to herself everyday and she says even if you don’t believe it to begin with, if you say it often enough it actually re- programs your brain to the point where it becomes fact. So I think the more you do it the easier it will become and the more positive effect it will have.

Take care. Here’s to health and happiness. Look after yourself and stay in touch.

BM 

[hayduke]

It's interesting watching my old man justify toxic behaviours because he was brought up with them too.

 

That don't make 'em ok!

Boundaries, space and loving support come first.

Good on you @BadMedicine

[Rrsfc]

I'm so sorry I made you cry, it wasn'ty my intention. But crying can be good sometimes it's cleansing. I've been reflecting on the self-esteem topic, the other day as I was hugging myself and saying nice things I said to myself I was proud of all the effords I did and do to try to lead a productive life. This was so true and it really struck a cord within myself, since that day I feel a little better. The kind of experiences I had to deal with when in psychotic crisis really affected me. Not being able to make rational decisions, being a harm to myself and others, being ashamed of thoughts and actions, it's all really heavy and traumatic. I don't believe I am over it. So how can I be a normal person when my life hasn't been normal for the last 17 years? Everything I've acomplished is wonderful, I could be locked up in a psych ward or I could spend my time taking 10 different pills each day and sleeping on the couch, a burden to my family. So my advice to you is not to think about what you can't do but be thankful for being able to lead an almost normal life despite your difficulties. Be amazed of all the little things that you can do for you and your family, because you could be a lot worse. Be really careful with what you set yourself up to or you'll have other crisis. Even being careful is not sometimes enough, the crisis can come anytime. The only shoulds I have in my life are I should exercise, eat right, meditate, do yoga, take my med, rest enough, all else must be done only after these basic needs are met. Yes, I spend a lot of time doing these things but they are my therapy, I need them. You can set your own therapeutic activities and prioritize yourself always, because if you don't do that you can end up a lot worse in the long run and your family Will suffer a lot more. I hope my reflections are of help to you.  😘

[BadMedicine]

Thanks @hayduke. You have also been an inspiration in learning how to set boundaries.

 

@Rrsfc you didn’t make me cry in a bad way. It was more a mixture of feeling proud that someone recognised some good in me despite all that has happened, tinged with a sadness that it has all happened. 
You are right I need to change my rhetoric in my mind. There is indeed much to be grateful for. We could be stuck in a world of hallucinations whereas in fact we are both living very productive lives. I think when you find something nice to say to yourself that really rings true it has a more powerful effect. I’m going to try and find my truth - it will be along similar lines, I think, but first I have to re-frame what I consider success. I’m working on that! 
I have been keeping an eye out for other jobs. I thought maybe I could do a data entry job from home. Would be a lot less stressful and wouldn’t require travelling which would reduce the working day. But would still keep some money coming in. Contrary to feeling bad at the thought of giving up my job - when I consider this I actually feel relief. Just have to execute it now! If I manage to find something suitable hopefully I will have more time and energy to devote to my family, and one thing I have learnt about myself is that good, meaningful interactions with other people where I do something to make them feel good makes me feel good. That’s something I need to nurture.

Your musings are very useful to me indeed. I am definitely realising I can make a difference to the way I think about myself. It does take time, acceptance and work - but it can be done. I am definitely still a work in progress but I will get there.

 

p.s. Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. I have had a busy week.

 

BM

[Venkat]

6 hours ago, BadMedicine said:

 

I have been keeping an eye out for other jobs. I thought maybe I could do a data entry job from home. Would be a lot less stressful and wouldn’t require travelling which would reduce the working day. But would still keep some money coming in. Contrary to feeling bad at the thought of giving up my job - when I consider this I actually feel relief. Just have to execute it now! If I manage to find something suitable hopefully I will have more time and energy to devote to my family

Hi @Rrsfc not really sure if I should be suggesting but this sounds like a very good and practical idea.  Doing a job where you feel relaxed sounds nice.

[BadMedicine]

Thanks @Venkat for your input and opinion. It’s good to have some affirmation that this seems like a good way to go. 

[littlebird]

On 2/15/2023 at 6:27 PM, Venkat said:

Contrary to feeling bad at the thought of giving up my job - when I consider this I actually feel relief.

 

I had a death-grip on a career that was killing me. When people suggested I could just... walk away and do something else, it was scary but I also had a sense of deep relief, a part of me asking, "Is that possible? Could we do that?"

 

I'm beyond grateful I listened to that small voice (and the many people in my life basically having interventions with me about my job).

 

On 2/15/2023 at 11:43 AM, BadMedicine said:

I have been keeping an eye out for other jobs. I thought maybe I could do a data entry job from home. Would be a lot less stressful and wouldn’t require travelling which would reduce the working day.

 

Working from home is a godsend and I never want to go back to any other way. It's incredible for the ole mental health!

 

Although, I was never good at setting time boundaries, and I can't leave things at the office and walk away, so it does enable me to over-work. If you feel like you could set boundaries with yourself and not have it bleed into the rest of your day, it could be great!

[hayduke]

14 hours ago, littlebird said:

 

I had a death-grip on a career that was killing me. When people suggested I could just... walk away and do something else, it was scary but I also had a sense of deep relief, a part of me asking, "Is that possible? Could we do that?"

 

I'm beyond grateful I listened to that small voice (and the many people in my life basically having interventions with me about my job).

 

 

Working from home is a godsend and I never want to go back to any other way. It's incredible for the ole mental health!

 

Although, I was never good at setting time boundaries, and I can't leave things at the office and walk away, so it does enable me to over-work. If you feel like you could set boundaries with yourself and not have it bleed into the rest of your day, it could be great!

Yeah sometimes these big changes feel like a bungee jump, but I almost always find they work out better and you can usually go back without too much fuss if it doesn't.

Getting retrenched mid pandemic is still problematic, but the upside was that I didn't feel like there was stability to lose by changing at that point.  But if you can be retrenched from a "permanent" position, it wasn't permanent at all anyway.

[BadMedicine]

22 hours ago, littlebird said:

had a death-grip on a career that was killing me. When people suggested I could just... walk away and do something else, it was scary but I also had a sense of deep relief, a part of me asking, "Is that possible? Could we do that?"

It’s funny how we hold onto things so hard that are not doing us any good. I’m glad that you were able to walk away in the end into something better for you. Good to hear it worked out as well. Re-enforces in my mind that this is the right thing to do for me as well. 
 

 

7 hours ago, hayduke said:

eah sometimes these big changes feel like a bungee jump, but I almost always find they work out better and you can usually go back without too much fuss if it doesn't.

You are right @hayduke it’s not an irreversible decision either but a chance to try something new, which is more than likely going to have a positive impact on my mental health.

 

 

[littlebird]

26 minutes ago, BadMedicine said:

it’s not an irreversible decision either but a chance to try something new, which is more than likely going to have a positive impact on my mental health.

 

Totally! Just like meds, jobs can be reinstated too. Sometimes taking a leap is a great way to find something new. Cheering you on! Gotta listen to those instincts.

[hayduke]

How are you getting on there @BadMedicine?

[BadMedicine]

It’s been awhile sorry but I thought I would finally write an update. I actually got a lot better between March and May and life felt a lot easier so at the time decided to continue with my job. I was actually feeling happy and enjoying social interaction much more than I have done for a long time. But a few weeks of really long hours coupled with me overdoing the exercise (100 mile plus weeks on the bike) sent me spiralling back to being dysfunctional. I didn’t have traditional psychotic symptoms but I was struggling with inappropriate emotions and not sleeping that well. I don’t know whether this is a withdrawal symptom or a symptom of illness but it was really difficult to deal with. I have always been quite an empathetic person so to lose this about myself was really hard. In fact not just to lose empathy but to seem actively happy when bad things happen was awful. It was impossible to live and maintain relationships. I ended up increasing the dose of olanzapine to 3.1 mg and it does seem to have helped. I also went to hand my notice in at work last week although they wouldn’t let me. Instead they have offered me part- time which I will probably take. I really need to change something because I keep getting worse. I had been doing OK on 2.5mg olanzapine until this latest round of stress - some self inflicted and some due to work. I should have dealt with my job situation much sooner but as I felt better I thought I could cope with it. Sadly that wasn’t the case. Oh well you live and you learn! At least I have done something about it now. BM.

[hayduke]

Sounds like taking a load of stress off is a good plan.  I worked part time most of the last decade, it's great if you can meet your needs while doing so.  It's possible to overexercise too, gotta listen to your body's needs for rest.  The endorphins from it are addictive and relaxing, but sometimes yoga is a better choice of activity in a mix.

 

"Inappropriate emotions" is an interesting term.  I take the view that we can't control our emotions, but we choose our reactions to them.  They're all valid, I wonder if you might be able to work through what was upsetting there.