Pawlove: Xanax done, Paxil is next! But when?

[Pawlove]

Finally! I have started my paxil taper! I kept putting it off, one excuse after another. The holidays. Then the winter months being harder... I had gotten a scale but it was in the wrapper for 2 months or more. There was a young lady on benzo buddies who had a horrible story and had asked for info about doing a taper with that. In looking for info for her I found myself finally learning about my scale and working up 2 schedules. The one I am using has me cutting 10% a week for 3 weeks and then holding for 3 weeks. The other has the same schedule but only cutting 5%. I know... that would take 2 years to get off the garbage so I won't do that unless I have severe sxs. I started Monday of this week and the scale is easier to use than I expected. I am intimidated by any new gadget. I know the "normal" schedule of holding is 2 weeks and I may do that. I had such a horrible ct experience with paxil where I reinstated after being off 4 months and I am definitely a bit scared that if I got too fast I may find it too hard. I had delayed sxs with the ct and didn't even realize the cause was paxil wd so this first 3 week hold will be a tell for me. Plus every other wd I did was so much harder as the dose got lower so it's going to be a learning curve for this taper- my final mind altering drug!!! 

 

My overall health is so much better it was hard to rock the boat and start this taper. I have been SO good with a combination of Low Dose Naltrexone and a PEMF mat! Between those 2 things, a total diet change and a multitude of supplements I am better than I have been in over 20 years. I was on twice the dose of enzymes that studies say is max for treating the pancreas issue I have- EPI. That Rx is extremely expensive and even with insurance covering a huge portion of the cost it's still over $700/month. I've been able to cut that in half and that means I am now at the max dose but who knows... maybe getting off paxil will allow my body to get that resolved. Stranger things have happened. My labs last August indicated my thyroid function was below norm. I took a thyroid supporting supplement and this month my thyroid levels were the best they have been in 6 years! Maybe the healing aspect of my PEMF mat also helped. All I know is my PCP would not allow me to try LDN but I found a practice on line that specializes in it and that has been my miracle. LDN helps with immune function, mood and of course, pain which was my debilitating issue. I was in bed for 2 years. I now am painting in my house, working in my yard, I had 7 Christmas trees, I can drive again...unbelievable. So to anyone who considers giving up.. please keep trying things. I spent so much money on things that didn't help- acupuncture, injections over 2 years that included aspirating bone for stem cell injections, patches, lotions, TENs- things that would help someone else but didn't help me. I had to find my own way as so many of us here have had to do. Mainstream medicine wants to go by the book that big pharma writes and it has gotten so many of us in trouble that is beyond difficult to find our way out of. My getting off methadone, morphine, lyrica, a statin, ambien and xanax have lifted a curtain and I am renewed! Who knows what issues getting off paxil will resolve! My main issues now are migraines and the gut/pancreas problems. I am excited to see where this takes me!!!

 

So far, no sxs from my start of the taper. I have not told my husband I am doing this. He is a saint- he took the brunt of my ct from paxil before. The mental sxs were extreme and I don't want him worrying about me. Plus, unless you've been through it you may have some sympathy and empathy but to truly get it- it's just not possible. Which is why benzo buddies saved me when I was getting off xanax, ambien and the last of the morphine and I know this forum will be my saving grace with this withdrawal. If only our drs would find their way to actually discovering what these mind altering drugs do to their patients! 

[Pawlove]

I was reading from over a year ago, when I first posted. So much help was offered. I wanted to touch base with some of the people who had helped before ... my post earlier today is my update. Thanks so much to everyone who has offered advice. 

 

@Cocopuffz17

@brassmonkey

@Altostrata

@Rosetta

[Cocopuffz17]

5 hours ago, Pawlove said:

I was reading from over a year ago, when I first posted. So much help was offered. I wanted to touch base with some of the people who had helped before ... my post earlier today is my update. Thanks so much to everyone who has offered advice. 

 

@Cocopuffz17

@brassmonkey

@Altostrata

@Rosetta

You are welcome! Such a great update of yours to read! Glad you are doing so much better! I hope all the best for you in the tapering of paxil. Have a great weekend! 

[brassmonkey]

Best of luck with conquering the Paxil. You got this.

[Altostrata]

You're welcome, @Pawlove

 

For reference, here are our Tips for tapering off paroxetine (Paxil, Seroxat)

 

The schedule we suggest is somewhat different.

[Aurorax]

Hi @Pawlove!

 

I was thinking about you the other day, wondering how you were doing. So happy you have started tapering!
   10% a week for three weeks and holding for three weeks sounds way too fast, though. I believe it's better to start slowly, especially since you had such a bad wd last time. Sometimes wd symptoms show up several months after reducing the dose.
   But that's just my opinion.🙂

 

Aurorax

[Pawlove]

Thanks so much everyone!

 

Aurorax, I have told people on BB about you so many times. Your success inspires me. I appreciate your input so much. I did the 2 spread sheets and it was going to take a couple of years to do the 5% cuts and that seemed so slow. But then again, if it is better in the long run I don't have a reason to rush and possibly fail. I never considered thinking I might fail with other drugs but I was such a mess with the paxil wd and I am so much more sensitive to things now and that has me a bit concerned. I had an Rx for phenergan for nausea with the Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency. At a Christmas brunch away from home I forgot my enzymes and ate anyway and was sick the next day. I took a phenergan- no problems ever from taking it but that time it caused akathisia. I looked up causes of it and anti-nausea meds were listed. Just like having side effects from lyrica when I had never had any issues from it for 10+ years until I got off methadone, getting off xanax, ambien and morphine seems to have caused my CNS to be even more sensitive.  What would you recommend as far as a rate to taper? I do think the delayed sxs from paxil wd make me most afraid. I hate being this way. When I was in the midst of methadone wd my sis-in-law came to help me. She was saying "the pills are right there. Why don't you take just a little so you won't be so sick?" and I never ever considered it. But I am conflicted about this drug. The one I needed the least may be my most difficult one to be rid of. Thanks for any thoughts you have. 

@Aurorax

[Aurorax]

Thanks, @Pawlove!

I would go with the schedule that SA recommends, the one that Alto gave you. Some people can taper faster, but it's best to start slowly the first 4-6 months until you know how you react. You can always reevaluate during your taper and change your pace or hold for a little longer if you need to.

   I 100% understand that you want to enjoy your drug-free life as soon as possible, but I would hate to see you having to struggle with late-onset wd. Patience is key.
   Paxil can be nasty, but there is no doubt in my mind that you will make it if you go slow and listen to your body. Who knows, maybe it will be easier than you think.

 

But again, these are just my personal opinions.

 

How are you doing so far?

 

Aurorax

[Pawlove]

Hi @Aurorax,

 

Thanks for the advice. I am doing another week at the same cut I did last week- 10%. In other words, holding at 10% off the 20 mg. It seems like such a small amount when I am shaving off the pill and so far no real sxs. I will have to look back at the schedule that Alto gave me. I must've overlooked it when I came back to make a plan. The spread sheet I had was actually for 10% cuts for 3 weeks and then a 2 week hold. I had increased it to a 3 week hold because I felt like that might be too fast.  I would love nothing more than being drug free but I am wanting to do this right. I have been gluten free for over 2 weeks now and have had an amazing decrease in migraines. It could still be coincidence but I am starting to think that's why. So felling better really helps me be motivated to move forward. How are you doing? 

 

 

 

[Pawlove]

@Aurorax

@Altostrata

 

I looked back and see that I need to hold at this 10% rate for a month which I am good to do. Thanks so much!!!! I am excited to get support for a slower rate. I feel much better about it! 

 

 

 

[Pawlove]

@Aurorax

@Altostrata

@Gridley

@brassmonkey

 

A question (it's coming but a bit of background first) ... I started week 3 today in my Paxil taper. I am at the original cut of 10% (from 20 mg to 18 mg presently) and will hold here for this week and next week. I am using a scale to measure and it seems like such a small amount of med that I wonder if it's possible that I am having sxs already. I was doing so well when I started this, being greatly helped by LDN and a PEMF mat and getting off my long list of other meds. I was better than I have been in 20 years. In the last week I have had a few nights of mild to moderate insomnia but some really frustrating akathisia starting around midnight. Also, for 2 days I have had some frustrating abdominal pain. I have Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency which had given me the same type abdominal pain before diagnosis and for quite a while after dx. So now I am wondering if I need to increase my med for that of if this early in the taper it's possible that the sxs are hitting my weak places and I need to ride it out? I know even my Dr couldn't tell me the answer to that- I have gotten almost zero helpful info from the Drs, including the GI Dr and have gotten better by self study and major diet changes. It was difficult to dx and the Dr shrugs a lot when I ask questions. Since being on LDN I had been able to cut my EPI med in half altho that only got me to a dose that is the max in the literature so I hate to go back up. It costs like it's made from solid gold. My question is what kind of gut pain is typical for AD wd? If there is such a thing as typical pain. This pain is also the same as an ulcer would cause so I am conflicted. I guess I am finding it hard to think that sxs could be hitting with only a 10% cut. I have become hypersensitive to so many things that didn't bother me before so could I be this sensitive to the taper? And that was more than one question.... 🙄

 

 

[Aurorax]

9 hours ago, Pawlove said:

I am using a scale to measure and it seems like such a small amount of med that I wonder if it's possible that I am having sxs already.

 

I was going to post a congratulation for not having had any reaction to your 10% cut. It seemed almost too good to be true considering how long you have been on Paxil. So yes, it’s completely normal. Some people cut 5% or less for this reason. Everyone is different.

 

9 hours ago, Pawlove said:

My question is what kind of gut pain is typical for AD wd? If there is such a thing as typical pain.

 

I had abdominal pain during acute wd, but only during the night. It felt like someone was kicking my stomach. Very, very intense but not sharp or stabbing. But that’s just my personal experience. I guess everyone is different.

 

On 2/25/2021 at 11:51 PM, Pawlove said:

How are you doing? 

I’m doing ok. I had covid a few months ago, and I still have to be a bit careful not to exhaust myself. I’m not 100% back to normal yet, but I have regained smell and taste and can do my workouts again. I’m so thankful I didn’t have to go through covid 10 years ago during wd.

 

Aurorax

 

[Pawlove]

@Aurorax

Thanks so much! I appreciate once again your input. I'm so sorry you had covid! I know the long term issues can be difficult. Your overall health and all you've done to get strong had to be a big plus.

 

My gut pain is so weird. I woke this AM and realized it was totally gone but as soon as my feet hit the floor it came back. It is a raw feeling, not stabbing either. I was thinking- if it was my EPI I would have other gut sxs. Before my dx I lived on immodium. I don't know how the company survived after I got better. So I am definitely thinking this is from the taper. I may cut 5% next time if I am still having pain. The pain is made no better or worse by eating. The EPI pain was the same, which is also weird but I know wd causes issues in weak places. I've had some very mild skin burning too. This AM I went to town and the pain waxed and waned so it's not to the concerning place where I think my GI system is going south on me. Dear me- my initial thought was to cut from 20 mg to 10 mg all at once and then taper from there. Obviously my brain was having one of its senior moments when I had that notion. I am more thankful for this forum that I can express. After my disasters with wd in the past I am sure I would never have dared to try without all the information and support that are here. 

[Aurorax]

On 3/2/2021 at 5:12 PM, Pawlove said:

Dear me- my initial thought was to cut from 20 mg to 10 mg all at once and then taper from there. Obviously my brain was having one of its senior moments when I had that notion.

 

lol I think most of us have made too optimistic tapering schedules at some point. Ough, a 50% cut would not have been a pleasant experience.

 

On 3/2/2021 at 5:12 PM, Pawlove said:

I may cut 5% next time if I am still having pain.

 

Yes, sounds like a good plan to hold for a while until you feel better and cut 5% next time.

 

I, too, had the skin burning. Felt like I had rubbed chili all over my hands, but it was one of those symptoms that went away fairly quickly.

 

Aurorax

 

[Aurorax]

How are you doing, @Pawlove?

 

Aurorax

[Pawlove]

Hi @Aurorax !

 

Thanks so much for checking in! I have said several times that I was going to check in here and ask a few questions. I am due to make my 3rd cut Monday. I have had more nights of akathisia and insomnia with the 2nd 10% cut than I did with the first cut but I am doing well. I have had a big increase in pain - it hasn't bothered me this much in months but it had more to do with my activity than the taper, I think. Do people have pain issues with the AD wds like many of us did with benzo wd? I am not able to sit endlessly and way overdid it Easter and the next day and have not recovered well since. I never know how much to think is taper and how much is wear and tear from life. I know the akathisia is totally from the taper and is worse than with any other wd I've done. It always happens right after midnight and will sometimes wake me with the weird sensations. But is is enough better that I am wanting to do another 10% cut Monday. I will be just below 15 mg if I do that. A slow progress to have been at this for 2 months and only be 1/4 of the way. Especially since I know it will go slower as I get more into lower doses. But I am not in a race so need to take it as slowly as necessary. I am getting impatient. 

 

I have felt less than confident at times about my scale. I calibrate it often and changed the batteries a couple of nights ago. I will cut a 20 mg pill into chunks and powder and when putting it in the little cup in the scale it will sometimes seem to not notice fine powder until suddenly it goes way over and then I am picking little pieces out. I wondered if there are any tricks to the process that I don't know about. Do most people totally crush the pill or do you put chunks and tiny pieces? 

 

Thanks again for checking... how are you doing? I hope you just keep getting better and better! 

[ChessieCat]

Have you considered getting Paxil Oral Liquid or making your own?

 

Paxil Oral Suspension is stable until expiry date when stored correctly - see this post;

Seroxat contents to be discarded 1 month after opening - see this post

 

You can make your own liquid with water. See How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

[Pawlove]

Thanks @ChessieCat! I did my xanax with a self made alcohol/water mix but I have gotten extremely sensitive to alcohol so water would work well. I think I will try that before I do the  RX'd liquid paxil. I had such a disastrous CT from paxil 2+ years ago that my PCP would probably not be on board for the process and I prefer to keep it to myself. I had such akathisia last night again that I think I will hold for a while longer. My husband has to be up early and with 3 bed-dogs who would go nuts if I got up and was pacing thru the house I tend to stay miserably in bed. I never want to put myself in a place where I think about updosing. Even tho I have only done 2 10% cuts I want to keep that progress and making another cut, if the akathisia got worse, I might feel desperate. My negative, if it can be called that, is that I was doing better than I have in 20 years before I started the paxil taper. So it was not side effects of the med that made me want to get off. It's that it's not needed, I should never have started it over 20 years ago and I know it's horrible for my gut and my poor taxed brain. These meds that cause such neuro sxs in wd are the hardest. Lyrica was like that for me. I didn't have any akathisia that I recall from xanax. So this sucks big time. I feel like slow and .... I was going to say steady, will win the race but it may be just plain old slow. And it's not a race. So... there! 🙄 I need some major wisdom!

 

@Aurorax

[Pawlove]

  

4 hours ago, Gridley said:

Here's one akathisia success story. 

Success stories after many years of withdrawal syndrome ...

I'd also Google "SurvivingAntidepressants.org akathisia success stories."  The facts in these stories won't exactly match yours--we're all different-- but they do show there's hope.

 

 

@Gridley,  thank you for posting the link to success stories! I have been on benzo buddies for nearly 2 years and have been off xanax for almost 15 months and was so wanting to write a success story. I, like @Rhiannon , was suddenly wanting to do things and was better than I had been in 20+ years. I had imagined plodding my way into the sunset, enduring life until the end. So it was beyond my wildest dreams. But even after getting off methadone, morphine, lyrica, xanxa and ambien I still had the paxil to go and felt like I was not a real success until that was done. And it appears that it may take a looooong time. So having the frame of mind that success isn't all or nothing is huge. Akathisia is my most disturbing sx with the paxil taper. I had some with lyrica but I did not with xanax. At least as far as I can remember. It had not occurred to me, quite frankly, that it could be something that would not resolve. Dear me.... that scares the pants off me! So reading that it did go away for others helps. Just a new something to hang in the back of my drug addled brain- what if it doesn't?  I am generally hyper and want something done yesterday so taking my time on this paxil taper is against my nature but I feel I have to go slowly or possibly suffer needlessly. But dang- I want to be off!!! 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by ChessieCat
added quote before moving to member's intro

[ChessieCat]

It might be possible to take part of your dose in tablet and the rest in liquid.

 

If changing to all liquid SA suggests doing a cross over which is gentler on your system, taking the following combinations for 3-7 days, holding for long if needed:

 

3/4 tablet + 1/4 liquid, 1/2 + 1/2, 1/4 + 3/4

 

or if it is difficult to get the above combinations you might do:

 

2/3 + 1/3, 1/2 + 1/2, 1/3 + 2/3

 

Do not make any other changes at the same time, eg a dose reduction.

 

 

[Pawlove]

Hi @ChessieCat. Oh dear- I jumped whole hog into it last night. It was so easy to just melt the 20 mg into the 20 mls of water, take out 3.8 mls and drink the rest. I slept well other than a migraine that woke me on and off but no akathisia. And I have had migraines all my adult life so who knows why. If this change to liquid is going to cause me problems are they likely to be right away or delayed? I was so unsure of the scale and the fact that perhaps some of the medication was not evenly disbursed in the tablet so I always wondered if I was getting the good part or the filler so I hoped the liquid, well stirred, was much more precise. Thanks for the instructions and I will figure it out if I have issues.  Are the sxs caused by the change the same as those that generally go wtih wd? 

[Pawlove]

So 3 nights of changing to a liquid and after the 1st night of no akathisia the last 2 nights have been insane with it. But such a contradiction- yesterday was the best day I have had in a while. So much energy, less pain, joy in life. And then wham! Monday night I had gone to sleep easily and an hour later the akathisia. For hours. I have tried to describe it to myself. It felt like my bones were metal and a magnet was trying to pull them out. Another image- my legs being run over by one of those giant road flattening machines. And it isn't pain as I regard pain. It hurts but it's different- waves of some intense sensations. And night before last I also had weird mental pictures- one was where stuff I had used to cook with that evening was scattered over a dirt yard. Not since my CT have I had crazy images. But it didn't last. Last night was the first night the akathisia started before I went to sleep. I was almost there and it hit. A migraine had started around 8 PM, out of the blue, took my med (imitrex) and was good until a wave of AK poured over me. And yet this morning, I am having another good day. I'll take what I can get and am so thankful for the improved days! I have decided that I am not even going to taper by percentages in the future. I am removing 3.8 ml from 20 mg. When ready for the next cut I will increase by .1 to .2 ml and see how that goes. My microcuts with xanax gave me a feeling of good control. As an aside- I had wondered if detox baths (a recipe of epsom salts, apple cider vinegar, oil and essential oils)  I take a couple of times a week made a difference. I took one last night- love them and will continue but it didn't change the AK. 

[Aurorax]

On 4/11/2021 at 5:08 AM, Pawlove said:

Do people have pain issues with the AD wds like many of us did with benzo wd?

 

Yes, pain is common. I had muscle pain, nerve pain, stomach pain, headache... Wd symptoms like tension and muscle weakness can cause back and neck pain.
 

On 4/11/2021 at 8:12 PM, Pawlove said:

I had such akathisia last night again that I think I will hold for a while longer.

That sounds like a wise choice. It's not necessarily a problem to keep cutting your dose if you suffer from, let's say, night sweats and burning skin. But there are symptoms where you have to tread with great caution. Akathisia is one of them (other examples would be psychosis or suicidal ideation). You have only tapered for two months. There is still a risk for delayed reactions. If was in your situation, knowing what I know today, then I would hold until the akathisia is more or less gone. Then you know you have solid ground under your feet.

 

On 4/11/2021 at 8:34 PM, Pawlove said:

I am generally hyper and want something done yesterday so taking my time on this paxil taper is against my nature but I feel I have to go slowly or possibly suffer needlessly. But dang- I want to be off!!! 

 

 

I get that you want to get rid of this poison as soon as possible and celebrate your success, but you already are a success.🙂 You have tapered so many drugs already and are in a good place in life. It's better to let this taper take longer than you first planned than to risk what you have built up. Yes, Paxil is harmful but putting your body through a too quick taper is risky, too. I know it feels ridiculous to taper for years, but it is what it is. Forget about the time. I tapered for 16 months. It felt like an eternity, but it was way too fast.

 

On 4/11/2021 at 5:08 AM, Pawlove said:

Thanks again for checking... how are you doing?

I'm more or less recovered from covid now. I'm so grateful for feeling better.

 

Aurorax

 

[Pawlove]

@Aurorax, as usual, thank you for for your insight that I value more than you know. I have held and had a sudden relief from the akathisia that was amazing. Five nights now. I have some skin burning, very mild and the headaches are now my main sx and I finally slept better last night. I do appreciate what you said about needing to go as slowly as my body tells me to. When I did the paxil CT a few years ago the delayed sxs were far enough out that I didn't know it was even related to wd. And they got worse and worse and I am blessed that reinstating after 4 months worked for me. I have relieved myself of feeling like this is a race. I am holding a bit longer, until I have slept well for several nights and then it will be a tiny cut. It has been so much easier to do the water taper than using the scale. One thing I found, however, is that my pills take far longer to dissolve than the 20 minutes or so that someone mentioned. Even after an hour there has been a tiny little hard piece a couple of times so now I fix the mix in the AM and remove what needs to be taken out at night. I hope letting it sit all day doesn't change anything. Logically it seems like it shouldn't.

 

I will admit that the akathisia had me afraid. It was so much worse than it was with the lyrica. With that it was severe restlessness. This was so weird and waves of stuff that was terrible. I will be far more careful in the future to hopefully avoid that happening again. There is a lady here, Londoner, who is having suicidal akathisia and needs a ton of support. I was coming back to read your success story and see if you had it so she can hear a story of someone who took a long time to recover but is so good now. I am glad you are over covid and back to where you were. It's weird- I remember a long long time ago deciding to stop paxil. I was on all the pain meds and lyrica so I am not even sure what my reasoning was. But I cut from 20 mg to 10 mg for a couple of weeks and then quit. I had some delayed emotional stuff but no physical sxs. My nurse at the pain clinic encouraged me to go back on it. And I was an easy mark. I suppose my extreme sensitivity this time is because of all the other drug wds. They did have a domino effect as far as sxs and my body getting more and more sensitive. 

[Pawlove]

I feel like such a wimp. With all my other wds I never wavered. There were horrible times but I never thought about stopping or giving up. Other than the CT with paxil that was such a disaster- that was no real plan. Being better than I had been in 20 years made it hard to start this one even tho I wanted off and know paxil is a bad drug. I actually want to be able to cry more easily. 

 

Yesterday was so rotten that I seriously considered updosing last night. Maybe go back to 17 mg from 16.2 mg. I had had a migraine every day and night for so long, worse pain where I usually hurt, skin burning, insomnia and the worst- akathisia. I was so mad at myself that I didn't cut 5% rather than the 2 10% cuts I did. But I stayed at 16.2 mg last night, had insomnia but did go to sleep and woke early with a migraine. I took imitrex and my headache eased off. I hurried to town to get much needed groceries and felt better and better as the day went on. NO headache tonight. Too early to tell if there's going to be insomnia. Some skin burning but that's OK. I feel like a curtain has lifted and I can stay the course. 

[Aurorax]

Good to hear you are feeling better, @Pawlove

 

I know you had a lot of doubts about tapering Paxil when you were doing so well. I still feel this doubt between the lines (or if it's me projecting my feelings about my own experience).

   What if you didn't think about this as all or nothing? Instead of staying on 20 mg for the rest of your life or going off, what if you decided your first goal is to taper to 10 mg? That means you have reduced your drug burden by 50%, which is a huge improvement.
   What would your taper feel like if you knew you didn't have to decide on going off until you have stayed and been well on 10 mg for a while? You would only be 6,2 mg away from your goal.
   I'm not suggesting you shouldn't get rid of Paxil, but sometimes taking a step-by-step approach makes things less dramatic. You don't have to make the final decision just yet.

 

You probably already know this after tapering your other drugs, but getting off Paxil is so much more than going through wd. The brain is its own reference point, and we usually don't realize how drugged we have been until we are off. Taking it slowly and maybe staying on 10 mg until you feel well will give you time to process some of the emotions that have been shut down all these years. Everyone reacts differently to these drugs, but most of us change in one way or another. Allowing this to be a slow process gives us (and the people around us) a chance to understand who we are now. Getting our old selves back can sometimes be quite a shock for everyone involved.

 

On 4/19/2021 at 7:42 PM, Pawlove said:

I had some delayed emotional stuff but no physical sxs. My nurse at the pain clinic encouraged me to go back on it. And I was an easy mark. I suppose my extreme sensitivity this time is because of all the other drug wds. They did have a domino effect as far as sxs and my body getting more and more sensitive. 

 

That's probably the case, but it also seems like wds gets worse each time we try to come off. I didn't have physical sxs the first time I tried to quit, except delayed akathisia. The second attempt was much worse, and the final and successful several times worse than the one before.

 

Aurorax

[Pawlove]

Good morning @Aurorax!

 

Thank you as always. We were at the beach last week and I did so well I was going to be ready to do a cut today. And in my brain I was going to cut to 15 mg. Just to know I had 1/4 of it gone sounded awesome. But I got home Saturday, got a hot detox bath, did the lymph drainage- in other words detox stuff I had not done for a week, and awoke at 1 AM with mild akathisia. I hoped it was the detox. Last night the akathisia was worse. Not nearly to the degree it was before but bad enough to keep me awake and miserable. That is the only sx I feel I need to hold to manage. My constant headaches have gotten so much better- days with no headache now. Body pain is much better. I found this article yesterday:

Antidepressant drugs have become so common that it’s easy to forget that they are potent medications that can have serious and disturbing side effects.

About 13% of Americans over age 12 take them regularly. That’s a 65% increase since 1999.

These medications include Prozac (fluoxetine), Zoloft (sertraline), Celexa (citalopram), and Lexapro (escitalpram). A major review from Canada’s McMaster University found that they may be more dangerous than you think.

Researchers there examined the results of 17 previous studies that included nearly 380,000 participants. Their analysis found that antidepressant users had a 33% higher risk of death from any cause than non-users. It also showed that antidepressant users had a 14% higher risk of cardiovascular events, such as heart attacks and strokes.

Dr. Paul Andrews is an associate professor at McMaster University. He led the research team. “We are very concerned by these results,” he said.

“They suggest that we shouldn't be taking antidepressant drugs without understanding precisely how they interact with the body.”

The most popular antidepressants are selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). They treat depression by increasing brain levels of the feel-good chemical serotonin. But these drugs also block the absorption of serotonin by the body’s other major organs. These include the heart, kidneys, lungs, and liver.

The researchers warn that this could increase the risk of death by preventing multiple organs from functioning properly.

 

So here I sit, knowing how much I need this drug out of my system, want it out, crave being free of it and I feel stuck. The akathisia feels like a message from my brain that I am not healed enough to cut more. 

Aurorax, I hope you are doing well. If anyone on earth has done to the work to have a great life it's you! Bless you! 

[Pawlove]

I wish I could say I cut to 15 mg. The nights have been rough and stresses from outside issues and then migraines that wake me after midnight and insurance not allowing enough migraine med. But determined to do something that felt like a move with this taper I cut .2 mg (blush) last night and am now at 16 mg. I would have been fine to go to 15 mg had I been stable all week but migraines and some skin burning and body pain have been an issue. Does the body think that it has to fight this hard from the start to get that full dose back? I don't get it and am shocked that this has been so symptomatic for such a small drop. I will have been at this for 3 months on the 15th of May.  

 

An odd thing- I usually put my new mix back in the same bathroom cup from the night before. Apparently I got a different cup because the cup sitting on the bathroom sink had a layer of dry med in the bottom. And it looked like a good bit of med. Normally after I drink the needed amount I add more water to be certain I have taken it all. I am concerned- I put the pill in water several hours ahead of time. Then I stir it really well with the syringe and draw some up, squirt it out and do it again. And quickly get the waste amount to pour out. Am I missing some detail? I felt this water taper was more precise than my dry cut with a scale but the left over in the cup was a shock. Maybe I missed adding water one night after drinking it. At one time I was sticking the syringe into the bottom of the cup to remove the waste and felt like I might be getting what quickly settles so now I draw out from the middle of the liquid. I am making this way too hard but need this to be accurate, obviously. Any advice? 

 

@Aurorax @Gridley @Rosetta @ChessieCat @brassmonkey @Altostrata

[Altostrata]

Paxil is available in a prescription liquid. It may be easier for you to take a 10mg tablet with the rest in liquid form, which you can taper by very tiny amounts.

 

How do you feel, having reduced to 16mg?

[Pawlove]

Thanks @Altostrata. I know about liquid paxil but I had such a nightmare CT a couple of years ago that I doubt my MD will go along with my taper. So I am trying to do it on my own. The more I thought about it I almost had to have forgotten to add water to the cup after I initially drank what was in it. I made double sure last night and the cup was shiny clean.  And that mix was stirred and stirred and stirred. 🙄

 

I am struggling with migraines that have me dealing with insurance to try to get more med and some skin burning. No recent akathisia. The timing of the migraines is consistent. Late afternoon and evening is good until somewhere between 11:00 PM and 2 AM and a doozie hits. I may be OK when I wake but it creeps back. Something- cortisol? - is fluctuating. I am too old for it to be hormones. I have tried absolutely everything from going gluten free to detox baths etc. The skin burning usually has some other body pains along with it. So I am holding at 16 mg until hopefully my stubborn brain settles down and stops wanting that 4 little mg back!  I have a history of migraines but nothing like this. I guess it's true- getting hit where I am weak. 

[Altostrata]

What times of day do you take your drugs, with their dosages?

[Pawlove]

Hi @Altostrata. I take my paxil at 9:30 PM. That is really my only Rx now other than imitrex for migraines. I take a ton of supplements. Oh- and pancreatic enzymes with food that are Rx. A friend on BB said she had gotten great relief from her migraines with a TENs device called a Quell. Altho it says "not for migraines" and is for body pain. I studied it and decided to apply my TENs in the same way as the quell and I have no idea if that is why but my migraines have moved to starting anywhere from 5:30 AM to 8 AMish. And they have been less severe. Daytime is better since it allows me to sleep. Some of my sxs have eased- skin burning, akathisia. My eyes are twitching like crazy and watering but my energy is better. I plan to stay at 16 mg until I have at least one day without a migraine. Then a small cut. Any advice is always greatly appreciated. 

[Altostrata]

Sorry, I don't know anything about treating migraines. Some of the drugs are strong serotonergics.

 

You might look into an exclusion diet to see if something you're eating regularly is causing migraines regularly.

[Pawlove]

Thanks @Altostrata. I have even gone totally gluten free, eliminated sugar, gone as organic as I can find and am eating the same thing that I was when they were much much better. My PCP just ordered a calcium channel blocker which helps some people greatly but it lowers BP and heart rate as well and I do not have high BP so I am scared to try that. And I woke with one at 2:45 so my hoping my nighttime migraines were gone is out the window. I still think it's all paxil taper. Well, not all but the fact that it is my weak spot and I have had them for all my adult life I think the instability in my brain from the taper, if that makes sense, is making it much worse now. I am going to hold at 16 mg until I have more than one day without a migraine now. My insurance again denied me more migraine med. They have decided I can have med to tx 4 and 1/2 migraines a month. 

[Altostrata]

That sounds very difficult, I'm sorry.

[Aurorax]

On 5/6/2021 at 9:20 PM, Pawlove said:

I don't get it and am shocked that this has been so symptomatic for such a small drop.

 

I know it's quite a shock to realize how dependent we have become on these drugs, but I don't think there is a reason to worry. You have tapered from 20 mg to 16 mg after all. That's a lot.

 

On 5/7/2021 at 3:51 PM, Pawlove said:

No recent akathisia.

 

It's a good sign that it starts to improve when you hold for a while instead of getting worse.

 

On 5/7/2021 at 3:51 PM, Pawlove said:

I have a history of migraines but nothing like this. I guess it's true- getting hit where I am weak. 

 

I recall having eye migraines during wd. I never had them before, and they went away fairly quickly. I hope you start to feel better soon.

 

On 5/12/2021 at 4:46 PM, Pawlove said:

I am going to hold at 16 mg until I have more than one day without a migraine now.

 

Sounds like a good idea. I know I'm repeating myself, but try to forget about time. We tend to have a plan on how fast we should be able to taper. Try to forget about all of that and take it one step at a time. I think you are doing great. Just make sure to be kind to yourself and taper slow enough.❤️
 
I will take a break from SA over the summer to focus on a writing project, so I might not post anything for a while. But I will keep reading posts.
 
Aurorax