Rozon1: Effexor withdrawals

[Rozon1]

Hey guys. I’d like to thank you @Altostrata for creating this site and everyone for your support. I’ve come a long way since the beginning of my WD. My anxiety is (knock on wood) a 2/10 the last two days. Extremely happy about that. Now that my mind isn’t in a loop and panicking I can now feel my body. I still have anxiety but I can think a bit more logically. I’m able to sit still. There’s a lot that’s changing in my body. Am I scared? You bet your ass I am. I am terrified. My body feels like it’s legit dying( I know it’s not). At first, I thought about going back to the full amount. But given my reactions of going up and down so rapidly, I realized that wouldn’t of been an option. As tempting at times as it was. Up until a week ago, I still considered it. How silly of me. Now I struggle with physical problems. This is another battle I’m going to fight. I’ve been tempted to reinstate at a low dose as I’ve been advised my options. It’s a scary thought going back to the same drug that did this to me. It truly is. To possibly lose all progress. I don’t think I’d have an adverse reaction as the drug has typically always helped me until I started this updosing and down dosing journey. But who knows. Maybe I take a small dose and it just goes downhill for me. Can I be patient and wait out these scary physical symptoms? I think I can. I’m too stubborn and too scared to go back. 
 

abyways, thanks guys. I’ll update tomorrow. 

[Subzero42]

15 hours ago, Rozon1 said:

Hey guys. I’d like to thank you @Altostrata for creating this site and everyone for your support. I’ve come a long way since the beginning of my WD. My anxiety is (knock on wood) a 2/10 the last two days. Extremely happy about that. Now that my mind isn’t in a loop and panicking I can now feel my body. I still have anxiety but I can think a bit more logically. I’m able to sit still. There’s a lot that’s changing in my body. Am I scared? You bet your ass I am. I am terrified. My body feels like it’s legit dying( I know it’s not). At first, I thought about going back to the full amount. But given my reactions of going up and down so rapidly, I realized that wouldn’t of been an option. As tempting at times as it was. Up until a week ago, I still considered it. How silly of me. Now I struggle with physical problems. This is another battle I’m going to fight. I’ve been tempted to reinstate at a low dose as I’ve been advised my options. It’s a scary thought going back to the same drug that did this to me. It truly is. To possibly lose all progress. I don’t think I’d have an adverse reaction as the drug has typically always helped me until I started this updosing and down dosing journey. But who knows. Maybe I take a small dose and it just goes downhill for me. Can I be patient and wait out these scary physical symptoms? I think I can. I’m too stubborn and too scared to go back. 
 

abyways, thanks guys. I’ll update tomorrow. 

 

Rozon, how many times do I have to tell you to reinstate, you should do it instead of  thinking about doing it. I don't think you risk to feel worse from reinstating a very small dose, worst case scenario is it won't work and you will feel the same. 

 

If it works, you have a good chance to stabilize within a few months while if you stay off you will take YEARS to recover, concerning the " progress " you've made it is just a window which will be soon replaced by a wave.

 

You have a window, you think you're healing, then another wave come, then a window, then a wave and it goes on like this for an eternity.

 

 

 

[Rozon1]

Hey @Subzero42 I wouldn’t be able to reinstate at a full dose like you did. 37.5 was the highest I’ve ever been at. You’re lucky. You reinstated and felt fine. If I reinstate this far out, there’s no telling how I’ll do. I’ve already been kindled from the medication. There’s a high chance I **** my body up 10x more than what it is. My best bet is reinstating at a low dose and that’s not even guaranteed. 
 

How are you feeling? 

[Altostrata]

You're welcome, Rozon. Please take care of yourself, you may experience waves and windows for a long time as you very gradually recover.

 

But your feeling better already is a very good sign.

[Rozon1]

Just an update. So after carefully observing my symptoms, it turns out my whole digestive track isn’t working correctly(obviously). Soon after I eat, I start to cough extremely violent to the point where I want to throw up. It’s like my esophaguse can’t work properly. Also the yawning thing makes sense. I’d assume my Veugas nerve is damaged. Makes me wonder if I should just let it heal instead of trying to reinstate and possibly make it worse. 
 

I also haven’t felt the need to visit the forums much at all lately which I think shows I’m taking control over the situation and coping with it better instead of looking for answers. Maybe a good thing? 
 

anyways, symptoms are still current, anxiety is low comparatively but I am concerned about my symptoms although I know theyre WD symptoms. Hope you’re all doing well

[Altostrata]

Well done. Listen to your body. What is it telling you it wants? Smaller bites? Drink more water? Maybe eat soups and stews for a while? You can figure this out.

[Rozon1]

Hey @Altostrata I’m listening to my body. Just keeping hydrated. It’s the only thing that I can seem to do. 
 

honestly, how far I’ve come from beginning  and crying on my families living room floor with terror and doom. Pleading to them. Thinking these intrusive thoughts would never go. I was afraid everyday. It’s almost like I forgot how bad it actually was. I don’t know if it’s because I want to forget it or what. Almost two months of 1-2 hours of sleep a night if that.
 

im here now with almost three to four days of much improved anxiety. So relieved that I’m not as bad as I was the last 3 months. I just don’t see how that hell coulda lasted much longer. Still WD anxiety but much more manageable. I still obsess over my withdrawls but there’s not much I can do about that at this time. I’m getting 4-7 hours of sleep a night now. Still broken and not ideal but better. 
 

now I face autonomic nervous system disregulation. My body isn’t functioning properly(Vegas nerve id assume). From breathing, to GI track issues(constipation) I find myself still facing the question, do I reinstate with these mental improvements? Or do I continue fighting the tough fight and hope my physical symptoms get better, even though they haven’t shown signs. 
 

I’m not asking, just talking my day. you guys have been awesome in tolerating me. Hell, I didn’t even want to come on this forum to explain this to you guys. A week ago, I woulda loved to browse this forum 24/7 and talk about my issues because I was still somewhat panicked. Interesting how my mental process has changed. I’m thankful for that, too. I’m not so reliant on other people looking for re assurance all the time. 
 

In conclusion, I’ve FOR SURE have seen improvements. Mostly mental but a little physical(cold chills, forgot about that one, insomnia). I know you’d say seeing improvements is a good thing, because it is. I just still have trouble thinking that things will continue to get better. Just makes me wonder if people have recovered after kindling themselves so bad then just CTd with harsh physical symptoms. Normal thoughts, ahh. 
 

thanks for listening, this is my ted talk(a joke btw if you don’t get it lol) 

[Colonial]

That's great Your up to 4-7 hours of sleep from 1-2! 😎

That will make a huge difference going forward for the rest of Your system being able to Heal.

And being able to think straight as well! 🤠

 

[mstimc]

You've really made some great improvements, Rozon--I'm so glad for you!  It's amazing how quickly things can change when your mental outlook improves.  Keep that positive attitude and I think a lot of other things will start getting better, too.

[Altostrata]

On 3/28/2020 at 8:50 AM, Rozon1 said:

now I face autonomic nervous system disregulation. My body isn’t functioning properly(Vegas nerve id assume). From breathing, to GI track issues(constipation) I find myself still facing the question, do I reinstate with these mental improvements? Or do I continue fighting the tough fight and hope my physical symptoms get better, even though they haven’t shown signs. 

 

Recovery is very gradual. As you can see, you have control over some things that help you feel better. It's up to you to decide if you want to carry on or try reinstatement. You can do either.

 

Please keep this in mind, as you have asked this question maybe 30 times. The answer is always the same: Your decision.

[Rozon1]

Hey @Altostrata definitely some changes made in my body. I’m feeling more fatigued than I ever have. I was the opposite at the beginning of WD. I feel so detached. I know it’s WD and I’m not freaking out. Still constipated, I have this mucus stuck in my chest for the past week which causes my cough to be worse. I can’t even fully cough because my chest tightness. Such as WD life. Interesting to see how my WDs symptoms change so rapidly. 
 

anyways, I hope you’re doing well and thanks for responding. I’ll update tomorrow. 
 

also thanks @mstimc I have made improvements mentally, for sure. Def don’t look for reassurance like I have in the past. Now I just wonder what the next step is. I face physical symptoms that I’m not sure are going away any time soon. Atleast they certainly don’t feel like they are. 
 

Hope you’re well 

[Colonial]

2 hours ago, Rozon1 said:

Now I just wonder what the next step is.

 

I will go on quietly and slowly, but I will go on firmly, and with a certainty of success.

Daniel O'Connell

[mstimc]

16 hours ago, Rozon1 said:

Still constipated, I have this mucus stuck in my chest for the past week which causes my cough to be worse. I can’t even fully cough because my chest tightness. Such as WD life. Interesting to see how my WDs symptoms change so rapidly. 
 

anyways, I hope you’re doing well and thanks for responding. I’ll update tomorrow. 
 

also thanks @mstimc I have made improvements mentally, for sure. Def don’t look for reassurance like I have in the past. Now I just wonder what the next step is. I face physical symptoms that I’m not sure are going away any time soon. Atleast they certainly don’t feel like they are. 

Rozon

If you're recovery arc is anything like mine, your physical symptoms will begin to diminish as your mental and emotional condition improves.  I think this is true for two reasons: 1) anxiety and anxious behavior can effect our bodies in any number of ways, and ways that often change (one day its stomach problems, the next day achy muscles, etc,).    Work on your mental state and your physical symptoms will begin to slowly fade.  2) The remaining aches, pains and issues will fade in importance as they're crowded out by more positive inputs.  As Alto and Colonial said, it takes time and patience, but you've already proven to yourself you can heal.  

[Rozon1]

Hey @mstimc it’s actually amazing how well I’m doing mentally compared to just 4 months ago. I wanted to legit just sit and die. You could tell by the posts that I’ve made. I was in 24/7 panic mode. Resting heart rate of 110-120. Using this forum as a crutch to help. I’m very glad with the progress I’ve made, no doubt. My mental state is 65% there. Compared to 1%. I say 1% because if it was any lower, I’d be brain dead basically lol. I didn’t know how I was doing it everyday. It just seems everyday seems to get better and better mentally but the physical symptoms continue to remain. Unchanged. But I understand, it’s part of the healing. I think my chest to starting to clear up so my cough isn’t as bad anymore. I am grateful to everyone here. You guys can’t physical help me or tell me what to do but the fact that you guys listen to me and respond with your honest opinion is better than nothing. My mom wasn’t even taking me serious. My kids mom wasn’t taking me serious. I can’t blame them. It sounds so bizarre and unreal. People go on and off anti depressants all the time. So of course it’s a stretch to believe me. I sound crazy. 
 

Before all of this, I was 100% functional normal person. Productive, great personality, attitude, etc. then for the past 4 months, if you exclude the last 4 months of me being on the drug and feeling doped up all the time, it’s just been a living nightmare. 
 

one thing that I’ve learned. I’m grateful that I’m not where I was but I’m still wanting to be better. But this isn’t enough healing. I need more. 
 

thank you guys 

[mstimc]

Healing will be a gradual process but you can get there.   Yes, it is frustrating to think about the way you were.  Eventually I realized that person, the old "real me" was never coming back.  But that wasn't a bad thing.  There are many experiences that change us for better or worse.  I'm willing to bet having a daughter changed the way you look at life.  After I recovered, I found I was a lot more empathetic to other peoples' suffering, and I was more willing to openly discuss mental health issues with others.  

 

Let that other, older person go and choose who you want to be when this is all over.  Setting some goals may even help you work toward recovery.  You can keep all the things you listed: productive, great personality, attitude, etc. and think about the things you can add or change.  Working toward positive goals will keep you in the right frame of mind. 

[Colonial]

Great post in Ella's thread!

Proud of you.

 

[Rozon1]

Thanks @mstimc and thanks @Colonial I was just feeling decent today so I just wanted to show some sympathy. Can’t believe I did it. 
 

hey @Altostrata I have a more productive conversation for you today. 
 

when our bodies go into these WDs they go into a fight or flight mode, correct? I mean it makes sense. It says when you go into fight or flight you don’t get as much blood to your gut or gastrointestinal. Which I assume is why so many people have Gastro issues. Super interesting stuff. I know you’ve done research and I was curious on your opinion. Here’s a video where this gentlemen indirectly describes withdrawl. 
 

 

[Rozon1]

My cough has gotten worse and worse. Coughing up mucus. Just like yawning, my coughs are forced and don’t seem full. Which I don’t think is actually helping me. I might go to the doctor to get tested for an infection as it’s harder and harder to deal with. It’s waking me up. 
 

if it’s infection should I stay away from anti biotics as I noticed it’s messed people up here. 
 

I have a feeling it’s pneumonia but I can’t be sure 

[Colonial]

The Fluoroquinolone family of antibiotics is one to stay away from, but many people are ok with a generic run of the mill Penicillin based, if your not allergic, like Amoxicillin.

Everyone is different.

 

We do have a thread here: " Cipro, Levaquin, Azithromycin (Z-Pack), and other antibiotics"

But I am unsure why Azithromycin is in the title as I did not see it listed in the discussion as a problematic drug for WD.

We have to be careful not to ascribe every drug reaction-interaction as WD related.

The Cipro and Levaquin, yes, they are Fluoroquinolones, they would be ones to stay away from.

But they are so dangerous, many doctors no longer prescribe them to anyone.

 

If You are actually starting to produce mucus with the cough then it's good to have it checked out, it could just be viral or have gone into something more serious.

What the origin of it, WD or not, is not as important as making sure it doesn't turn into something more serious as can sometimes happen.

 

And then if You have to go anyway, you can see if He'll run the CBC while your there, no harm in it and it should give more peace of mind if everything comes back ok.

Good luck! 🤠

[Rozon1]

Thanks @Colonial for the haste reply. Just got it checked out. X-ray confirmed no pneumonia. Not sure if that’s the best way to diagnose it but doctor didn’t seem worried about it. Just my asthma acting up. I was wheezing last night and I cough up a lot after I eat. Maybe it’s irritation in my chest. I don’t know. Anyways thanks 

[mstimc]

Hope you're feeling better soon.  Congestion sucks no matter what the cause!

 

[Rozon1]

So just to give an update and maybe some of you can give me some perspective. 
 

It’s as if my anxiety is as best as it’s ever been. I’m so thankful for that. But my physical symptoms are just there as ever. It’s now my main focus. Muscle tightness and soreness in my butt. Everything just seems so inflamed in that part of my body. Just sore. 
 

Should I expect to continue seeing resolve in physical symptoms? its like my brain is no longer now focused on the physical symptoms. Gah. Can I win this war? 

[Colonial]

My mental Neurological Symptoms tended to resolve first with the Physical taking longer and still holding on at each med drop.

Muscle tightness, maybe try an Epsom salt bath along with a good stretching routine 3 times a day, and of course, the water.

That Dehydration is a killer, we need more water in WD than we realize to "regrow" our cells properly.

And if Your coughing is bad, that will tighten up Your muscles as well. 

[Rozon1]

Thanks @Colonial I’ll keep myself hydrated. One last update. I found out my symptoms line up a lot with Pelvic floor dyssynergia. This is super saddening. It all makes sense. The yawning connected to my diagram and the constant tension in my pelvic floor. Causing swollen testicles and inability to fully release my bowel. Along with frequent urination. This is certainly concerning. 

[Colonial]

WD Symptoms "mimic" just about any other independent diagnosis under the sun.

Be careful you don't talk Yourself to falling down the "rabbit hole" again by spending endless hours over analyzing every possible reason why something is...

In the long run, having a "scientific name" to attach to the symptom not only doesn't help resolve the issue, it just reinforces the negative thinking with non helpful statements such as:

 

22 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

This is super saddening.

 

And: 

22 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

This is certainly concerning. 

 

Refilling Your mind and Your thread with sentiments that are non conducive to long term healing just wastes more of Your life than the WD has already stole.

 

"Pelvic floor dyssynergia is a painful condition"

I don't remember you reporting any pain, so hopefully it's just the WD. 

[mstimc]

Rozon, Colonial is right.  If you think you are suffering from pelvic floor dyssynergia, there are ways to manage the symptoms.  But just for context, in the past few weeks, you’ve attributed your symptoms to a damaged vagus nerve, asthma, and any number of other physical ailments. I took a few minutes to look at the symptoms and treatments for dyssynergia.  The symptoms are very similar to those caused by anxiety (the inability to relax your pelvic muscles--or relax in general, stomach upset, etc.).  And the treatments are those that will also help with anxiety, such as relaxation and meditation techniques.  I’m not a doctor and only you know your body, but be careful your search for symptoms doesn’t become an obsession again.

 

Sometimes the most common causes of physical issues are the most benign.  A couple of examples:  When I get a physical, my platelet count tends to run high, and is often over the high “limit”.  When I was in WD, I freaked out over this, even though my doctor said it was nothing to worry about.  If you do an internet search, there are all sorts of horrible diseases that can cause high platelet counts.  But the most common--and least discussed--cause is that’s just the way I’m made.  Absent any other symptoms, my body just makes a lot of platelets, and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

My wife has the opposite problem.  Her white blood count tends to run low.  The condition has a scary name--leukopenia--but is harmless.  A low count can be a sign of cancer or immune problems.  But just as with my platelet count, the most common cause is genetics.  My wife’s sister also has low counts, and her hematologist said some peoples’ white blood cells tend to accumulate on blood vessel walls, causing an artificially low count on tests, but there is no “shortage” of blood cells.

 

Health anxiety is very common in WD and can send your mind on an endless search for symptoms, causes and treatments.  It also feeds your general anxiety, causing more symptoms and triggering more searching.  If you think you have dyssynergia leave it at that.  The treatment is much the same as that for managing anxiety so you don’t need to keep searching for a cause and effect.  The sooner you start practicing management techniques, the sooner the mental and physical symptoms will improve

[Rozon1]

Hey @mstimc and @Colonial thanks for doing some research. I agree, I think my body is in a constant state of anxiety(Tense muscles ect). Even though I’m able to “relax” and watch stuff and talk and play games, my muscles seem extremely tender at all times. So it makes it hard to fully “relax” if that makes any sense. My cough has gone for the most part, thankfully. Sleep has improved. The symptoms that I have now is the inability to have full bowel movements, frequent urination, constant pressure in my lower pelvic area and constant pressure in my diagrams. Making it hard to yawn or cough fully. It’s like all my muscles don’t want to relax and it’s super frustrating. Oh, also not to count the recent inflammation of my testicles. That’s a new development to which I guess goes hand in hand with what I’m dealing with. 
 

I’ll continue to stay hydrated, relax and go easy on myself. Watch my walks, etc.. I woke up today after a good 7 hour sleep and didn’t have anxiety. Just the typical general anxiety about my muscles being tensed up. Etc.. 

 

I think I’m transitioning to the phase of my WD where I’m gunna be more hyper focus on the physical part of them now that my brain is no longer restless on a loop about being in WD.

 

 

 

[mstimc]

3 hours ago, Rozon1 said:

I think I’m transitioning to the phase of my WD where I’m gunna be more hyper focus on the physical part of them now that my brain is no longer restless on a loop about being in WD.

 

To keep from ruminating on your physical symptoms, you need to consider a couple of things 1) You already know your physical symptoms are manifestations of your mental state.  Focusing on physical symptoms is just another form of anxious and obessive thinking. 2) You need to redirect that mental energy to something more positive and productive.  It sounds like you're doing a great job of burning some physical anxiety by getting out for walks, etc.  Try setting aside some time to practice new calming or coping practices.  Do distracting things like crafts or hobbies.  When you're tempted to research a new symptom, redirect--think about what you can do for or with your daughter and then do it.  The physical symptoms will subside much faster if you don't give them so much attention and power.

[Rozon1]

Hey @mstimc what’s up! Thanks for replying. To be completely honest I think I’m doing as best as anyone in my situation can do. I’ll be relaxing watching YouTube or a show and it’s just constantly there. It’s like I worked out my butt and upper legs and it’s non stop sore. Bruised if you will. 
 
My muscles don’t work properly. I can feel it.  However, I’ll continue as I’m doing. It’s just really uncomfortable and frustrating. Mental wise I’m doing much better and I’m getting better. 

[Rozon1]

Another update. The more my anxiety fed erased the more my physical symptoms increase. My anxiety is basically an all time low from the beginning of this journey. I’m so glad for that but now it’s tackling that ever so obvious nervous system problems that have my pelvic in such stress. 
 

I am so grateful I’ve seen mental improvements but I know this journey isn’t going to end anytime soon. I can just tell. Unless magically I’m able to have a release in muscle tension it’s not going anywhere. Anytime soon. 

[Colonial]

The Anxiety and the Nervous System problems, whether they manifest physically or any other way are all one in the same issue.

For some reason Your trying to separate them into different aspects, maybe thinking to do so will yield better results.

But it's all the same big ball of yarn.

 

Your still thinking if you can find something to "do", you can fix it.

These are not separate independent problems, their one progressive issue.

As the healing and the stages progress, how your symptoms manifest will change

You say You understand it's a long process, but then it seems You want to "fight" against it. 

As if You can get the upper hand on fixing one symptom it's going to solve the rest of the long term issue,  It's not.

 

We can try to manage the symptoms to mitigate them, yes.

But it seems You keep falling into the mistake of thinking you can "solve" each new symptom as it's own independent riddle when they manifest.

I don't think you've truly "accepted" the reality of this as a long term inter-dependent condition.

 

Maybe, MAYBE, Focusing on each symptom as it arises is Your way of distracting Yourself from the bigger issues You don't want to face.

But it comes across as Your fooling Yourself into not realizing what the big picture is.

I can't really tell. Maybe Your not able to either.  I Don't know.

But part of life without the drug is coming to terms with the reality of facing what the drug was "doping" us up from having to face.

 

Sometimes people focus on the WD as another "escape" from having to come to terms with what re-emerges when the drug isn't present.

But at this point, further discussion is only "enabling" You to either not deal with the real issue, or make Yourself worse.

So please don't take it personally if I do not continue to "engage" and "enable" what I think is non productive to You and Your Daughter.

 

Best of luck to you.

 

 

 

 

[Rozon1]

That’s fine, @Colonial. I don’t disagree with what you say above. Infact, it makes my question myself. I have been since this entire process to be more open minded to what other people suggest. It’s just the terror and fear in me. It’s not that I’m trying to reject what you say or deny it. I hear it loud and clear. I’m still following the coping techniques by keeping a peaceful mind, walking, distracting by doing physical activity as well. 
 

in other news, my libido seems to have surged a little bit recently. Not fully functional or fully back but certainly back. Those are some new improvements. 
 

I’ll continue to update with daily notes. 
 

 

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

Just dropped by to say hi! I see that you're dealing with libido issues too. Is that a big problem with Effexor too?

 

The full emotion thing is all too familiar. 

[Colonial]

30 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

I have been since this entire process to be more open minded to what other people suggest. It’s just the terror and fear in me.

 

I do get it.

And I didn't mean I was falling off the face of the earth or not continuing to support You per se...

Just didn't want You to think that If You don't "see" me as much it meant I didn't care. 😋

 

Unfortunately, I'm in ground zero here with the Plague so other things are calling for my time as well.

Catch you later, and keep Your Hat tipped forward! 🤠

[Rozon1]

No worries @Colonial you live close to New York, right? It’s crazy over there

[Colonial]

Their already diverting-turning patients away to other facilities and have field hospitals up.

Splitting Ventilators between patients, etc...

Shockingly, the recent delivery of Ventilators from China are broken.