Jlirry: introduction

[Jlirry]

Hi all, I hope it’s ok that I’m posting here. The website says to make an intro post.

 

i started on meds in 2005 when I had anxiety attacks during a really stressful period. I didn’t know what was going on and felt like I lost my mind. It turns out I was having panic attacks from too much stress in my life. At the time, a doctor prescribed depakote. My girlfriend at the time strongly objected and I never took it. I was later prescribed celexa by another doc. I took celexa and then lexapro for the next 14 years.

 

in 2019, I started having really bad anxiety again. My doc put me on seroquel 50 mg. Because I didn’t feel much better, I tried the following meds: Wellbutrin, cymbalta, prozac, Zoloft, then mirtazapine. All during this time, I stayed on seroquel.

 

the mirtazapine helped a lot with the anxiety and I’m currently on 45 mg. I decided to taper off the seroquel 50 mg at the beginning of 2020. At my doctors instructions, I went down to 25 mg for 5 days, 12.5 mg for the next 5 days, then off.

 

looking back now, the taper schedule was way too fast. I’m having a lot of withdrawal symptoms: foggy head, headaches, agitation, depression, irritability, palpitations, fatigue.

 

once I’m fully recovered from my seroquel withdrawal, I’d like to eventually get off mirtazapine.

 

id love to hear if anyone who has had experience getting off seroquel (I took the generic quietiapine). How long until withdrawal passed? Anything to reduce withdrawal symptoms?

 

much love.

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Jlirry.  As you now know, doctors know nothing about safe tapering.  For future reference we recommend tapering no more than 10% of current dose every four weeks.  We'll be happy to help you taper the mirtazapine when the time comes.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

The symptoms you describe are typical withdrawal symptoms.  Unfortunately, there is no way to predict how long withdrawal lasts

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

You might want to consider reinstatement of a very small dose of Seroquel.  Reinstatement is the only known way to help alleviate withdrawal syndrome.  The only other alternative is to try and wait out the symptoms and manage as best you can until your central nervous system returns to homeostasis.  Unfortunately no one can give you an exact timeline as to when you will start feeling better and while some do recover relatively easily, for others it can take many months or longer.  

 

Reinstatement isn't a guarantee of diminished symptoms for everyone but it's the best tactic available.  You're still in the time period where reinstatement predictably works, up to 3 months after last dose.  It is best to reinstate as soon as possible after withdrawal symptoms occur. We usually suggest a much smaller reinstatement dose than your last dose.  These drugs are strong, and If you take too much it may be too much for your brain and can cause you become unstable.  Sometimes it can be hard to regain stability after this happens.  Then, once you've stabilized on that dosage, which can take several months,  you can begin a 10% per month taper down to zero.   Please read:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms. -- at least the first page of the topic

 

If you're interested in reinstatement of a small dose of Seroquel, let me know and i'll suggest a dose.  Please do not reinstate without letting us suggest a dose.  

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium (glycinate is a good form) and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jlirry]

Thanks Griffey. I really appreciate your advice and kind words. It means so much to me to have this community.

 

I’m going to stay off the seroquel. I just really really don’t want to reinstate, even if it means a longer withdrawal period.

 

I’ll post more updates over the coming months.

[Jlirry]

Hi, it’s been a few months since I last posted on this. As a recap, I started lexapro and took it for about 13 years. Not sure if or how much it worked, but I just stayed on it. About a couple years ago, I started having really bad anxiety. The lexapro didn’t seem to be working so I’ve been trying different meds ever since. One of the meds was seroquel, which I started in January 2019.

 

i also started mirtazapine about 6 months ago.

 

i tapered off the seroquel in January 2020. Way too fast. But at least I was off it.

 

ever since then, I’ve only been on mirtazapine.

 

i still feel miserable. Depression. Brain fog. My brain feels broken. Does anyone else feel like that?

 

i definitely don’t want to reinstitute the seroquel. It’s probably been too long anyway (more than 3 months).

 

but I’m wondering whether I should either (1) add another SSRI (maybe trintellix) or (2) try to also get off the mirtazapine. I know this seems like an odd set of diametrically opposes choices.

 

or should I stay the course with just the mirtazapine and hope things get better.

 

whats not clear to me is why I feel to miserable. Do I truly have a brain chemical imbalance? If so, then perhaps I should add the trintellix. Or am I just undergoing withdrawal still from the seroquel (and perhaps from the 13 years of lexapro that I quit about 14 months ago)? If so, then I just need to ride out the withdrawal. 

 

i’d be grateful for any advice. I wish I could see a light at the end of the tunnel. Thank you.

[Altostrata]

Hello, going on and off drugs can cause your nervous system to become sensitized or destabilized. Your symptoms of nervous system dysregulation are shared by many people on this site.

 

It's very possible this dates from your going off Lexapro and switching from one drug to another. There is no such thing as a brain chemical imbalance that is corrected by psychiatric drugs.

 

As this is a site for going off drugs, we cannot recommend more drugs for you. Generally, we provide peer support for tapering off psychiatric drugs and recovery from drug-induced destabilization.

 

Does mirtazapine help you sleep? What is your current drug schedule and symptom pattern?

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

[Jlirry]

Thank you altostrata.  I really really appreciate your response, especially how prompt it was.  (I've added to my signature, as you suggested.  I hope I did it right.)

 

Please note the following.

 

First, do you think anti-depressants (AD) are a bad idea always?  or are there some situations where it is a good idea?  I'm not really sure what I think about this question, so curious what you think as it'll help me with my decision.

 

Second, in order for me to heal (which I know can take a very long time), do I need to also get off my mirtazapine?  Or can my nervous system heal even if I stay on the mirtazapine?

 

Third, to answer your questions, I do think the mirtazapine helps me sleep.  I take 45 mg at night.  My sleep is pretty good, but I just feel awful during the days - depression, very sensitive nervous system, brain fog, feel out of it.  In some ways the worst symptom is extreme irritability; I have two young kids, and I feel so guilty to them because of how annoyed I feel and act to them.  Do you think these symptoms are withdrawal?  Or might they be caused by the mirtazapine?  If it's withdrawal, I guess I just need to wait it out.  But if it's teh mirtazapine that's the problem, maybe I need to slowly taper off it.

 

Fourth, do u know anytihng about the fisher wallace (or any other CES) device?  What about about transcranial magnetic stimulation?  I know it's expensive, but I'm willing to go into debt to feel better and expedite my healing.

 

I am so appreciative of your advice.  Thank you.

 

JL

[Altostrata]

We don't diagnose or treat psychiatric disorders here, or prescribe drugs to treat them. Some people like their effect, others don't. Whether they "work" for you depends on your subjective judgment.

 

We have a lot of people here taking mirtazapine to aid sleep. We are in favor of sleep. Sleep is healing.

 

If your symptoms date from your drug changes, they are much more likely to be withdrawal symptoms or other nervous system upset than a psychiatric disorder.

 

Please look in the Symptoms and Self-Care forum for discussions of remedies such as the Fisher-Wallace device or transcranial magnetic stimulation.

[Jlirry]

Thanks altostrata. In your experience, does everyone recover from WD eventually (even if years down the line)? Or do some people never recover?

 

i guess I’m feeling pretty discouraged and unsure of what to do. I don’t know whether I should stay the course with mirtazapine and hope my WD from all the other meds I got off improves, whether I should add an additional AD, or whether I should go all out in getting off ADs and get off the mirtazapine too. I know this is a personal decision that I need to make for myself, but I just feel very unsure.

 

when I ask my family for advice, they just tell me to trust the advice of my psychiatrist. But I feel like psychiatrists know no more than we do and they’ll just go along with whatever I state my preference to be. 
 

thank you. 

[cathnz]

On 5/27/2020 at 3:32 PM, Jlirry said:

Thanks altostrata. In your experience, does everyone recover from WD eventually (even if years down the line)? Or do some people never recover?

 

i guess I’m feeling pretty discouraged and unsure of what to do. I don’t know whether I should stay the course with mirtazapine and hope my WD from all the other meds I got off improves, whether I should add an additional AD, or whether I should go all out in getting off ADs and get off the mirtazapine too. I know this is a personal decision that I need to make for myself, but I just feel very unsure.

 

when I ask my family for advice, they just tell me to trust the advice of my psychiatrist. But I feel like psychiatrists know no more than we do and they’ll just go along with whatever I state my preference to be. 
 

thank you. 

@Jlirry following this thread as I'm in a similar boat. 

[Jlirry]

@cathnzthanks for following. Let me know what you decide to do. 
 

hopefully some others on this site will answer my question as to whether everyone eventually recovers from WD.

 

in some ways, the hardest part about all this is the uncertainty and not knowing what the right path is. Do I taper of all meds? Do I stay on mirtazapine and hope my symptoms are all WD from other meds and will go away? Or do I add on another AD? 
 

those are starkly different options.

 

are you considering these same options?

[cathnz]

34 minutes ago, Jlirry said:

@cathnzthanks for following. Let me know what you decide to do. 
 

hopefully some others on this site will answer my question as to whether everyone eventually recovers from WD.

 

in some ways, the hardest part about all this is the uncertainty and not knowing what the right path is. Do I taper of all meds? Do I stay on mirtazapine and hope my symptoms are all WD from other meds and will go away? Or do I add on another AD? 
 

those are starkly different options.

 

are you considering these same options?

@Jlirry these are my exact same dilemmas. I just don't know what to do. 😔

[Jlirry]

@cathnz I’m sorry to hear you’re facing the same dilemma as me. Wishing you all the best. Looks like we’ve on meds for roughly the same amount of time too. You from 2004, me from 2005.