☼ dalsaan

[LexAnger]

Hi Dalsaan, love and respect your stregnth, patience and positive altitude!

As ridiculous as it sounds the slow taper, you are moving toward to the Finishing line. have you found the lower dose shows less evil effect over time?

 

Sending healing wishes to you!

Lex

[LexAnger]

Thank you D!

I like 'her' too. I replaced 'my' photo for the wish to a more delightful, happy, uplifting life:)

[Addax]

Congratulations on getting to .6 ml! AND congratulations on doing so well in the comedy competition! Right on! I'm not surprised the stress of that kind of competition exacerbated symptoms, stress does crazy stuff to us when we're in withdrawal. As I'm sure you know, the muscle tension and stuff will pass.

 

How are you feeling overall?

[mammaP]

Sorry you are struggling Dalsaan but well done for getting to 0.6, it is incredible how much that teeny tiny amount can affect us, if we told doctors they would laugh (mine did)  .  Fantastic that you came second in the competition, congratulations! I would love to see you in action. 

[dalsaan]

For some reason the quote button isn't working on my thread this morning. Anyway, Addax and MammaP thanks for stopping by. I'm currently on 1ml rather than .6. Still, I'm happy with that.

 

Overall, I feel very good emotionally and pretty average physically. I think I need to pay more attention to my health. I think a trap of getting so low and feeling good emotionally is that you can drop the ball in terms of maintaining the health related discipline that got you to that point.

 

On the comedy front I may have scored my first paid gig! I'm not in it for the money and the gig is for a charity so I'll donate the money back, but it spins me out that someone would consider paying me money to do a gig

[Tilly]

Don't ever underestimate your worth, Dalsaan.

 

If someone wants to pay to harness a talent that you posses, it is a trade based on both admiration and value of your talent. I am not surprised in the least that you have progressed to this level. Accept the compliments and payments with both grace and the knowledge that there will be more to come.

 

Brava to you and your success!

 

You created it all through times of adversity. Be proud of your success born out of determination.

 

I am both proud of you and delighted to see your strength growing.

 

Cheers to you Dalsaan! I wish you every success and happiness.

 

Tilly x

[leahy]

Hi D,

 

I spent hours today reading your introduction thread. It is an amazing account of your journey and very long. I learned so much about my own suffering and successes through you. I know I have a long way to go - Remeron at 30 mg and holding. I have been reading a lot but do not have the stamina to write yet. But I wanted to take a minute to thank you. Thank you. :-)

 

Leahy

[dalsaan]

Hi Leahy,

 

Wow, I'm very touched that you stopped by to read my entire thread (!) and to say thanks.  

I'm glad you have got something out of my experiences and reflections as I have from others.

 

You do have a long way to go but remember even the longest journey starts with the first step.

Its good that you are reading, learning and holding.   I think this will help you achieve the mindsets and 

strategies most useful to you in withdrawal.   

 

I am happy to walk alongside you on your journey and am always here for you to ask questions if you think

I can add something to your thinking and decision making.

 

Take care

 

Dalsaan

[leahy]

"I am happy to walk alongside you on your journey and am always here for you to ask questions if you think

I can add something to your thinking and decision making."

 

Thank you, D. You have already been helpful in so many ways. I feel comforted to have you by my side. Do you think taurine really helps with sleep? Taurine and magnesium? Have you experienced grinding your teeth when sleeping? I have had a headache for 35 days now. I went for a massage today and the person said "You grind you teeth when you sleep." Well, I do remember waking up one night with pain from clenching my teeth one night so I am wondering about that. I know. I am grasping at straws here...

[dalsaan]

Hi Leahy,

 

I noticed a big difference with a Taurine but only in combination with magnesium. I recommend that you start on smell doses of anything you are going to try and start one supplement at a time. That way you lessen the risk of an adverse reaction and if something does have an unwanted reaction you can tell what it is.

 

I have experienced teeth grinding at times. As have others. It's called bruxism. If you search for that you will find thread discussing it. Some antidepressants have that as a side effect.

 

Have you had any scans to exclude other causes of the migraine?

 

D

[leahy]

"I have experienced teeth grinding at times. As have others. It's called bruxism. If you search for that you will find thread discussing it. Some antidepressants have that as a side effect.

 

Have you had any scans to exclude other causes of the migraine?"

 

Hi D,

 

I did have an MRI and blood work done by my internist. All was well. I've had the migraines on and off for about a year. It was only after my recent March visit to my internist that I realized in retrospect that the headaches probably coincided with me reducing remeron. I did not put 2 and 2 together till now. I thought it was a matter of getting the med out of the system. Someone in your post explained it very well. We're healing the brain and the HTP system. I think it is from your thread that I copied and pasted into Word to save it. Here's an excerpt. It is what I used to think...

 

"ALSO, because you are likely to encounter many, many people who still believe these drugs work kind of like aspirin, or a glass of wine, and all you need to do is stop and get it out of your system.

 

Now you can explain to them that no, getting it out of your system is not the issue; the issue is, you need to regrow or at least remodel your brain. This is a long, slow, very poorly understood process, and it needs to be respected."

 

 

Good to know about bruxism. I will look that up. The headaches must be a combination of things here. Not sleeping is a big contributor. I thought of you last night as I woke up after 2 hours sleeping (.75 Klonopin, 30 mg Remeron before sleep) at 11:30 PM. By 2PM I took Lactium, then magnesium, then Body Calm Supreme (passion flower, cherry, l-Theanine and Benfotiamine) by The Road Back people. I finally caved in at 3 AM and took 1 mg xanax and finally got back to sleep for a few hours. Not good, I know. I have so many supplements I haven't bought Taurine yet. Sounds like it might be worth it.

 

It's going to be a long day today. Best, Leahy

[freespirit]

I had bruxism before Remeron, but it increased a lot while taking it..and I've had numerous rounds in tapering off. But it is now better than it's ever been before. I rarely have it, though I do use a mouthguard made by the dentist every night.

 

I was also having migraines, but just once I stopped taking it...plus other headaches during tapering. The main thing that helped nearly all the physical symptoms was reducing histamine in my diet. However, if I was doing that over again, I would take a less drastic approach to doing that...by starting with eliminating the higher histamine foods and not changing everything the way I did.

 

Lots of good info on the histamine thread...plus the posts here: http://beyondmeds.com/?s=histamine+intolerance

[leahy]

Thank you, free spirit,for the link. I'll look into it.

[Rhiannon]

Don't ever underestimate your worth, Dalsaan.

 

If someone wants to pay to harness a talent that you posses, it is a trade based on both admiration and value of your talent. I am not surprised in the least that you have progressed to this level. Accept the compliments and payments with both grace and the knowledge that there will be more to come.

 

Brava to you and your success!

 

You created it all through times of adversity. Be proud of your success born out of determination.

 

I am both proud of you and delighted to see your strength growing.

 

Cheers to you Dalsaan! I wish you every success and happiness.

 

Tilly x

 

Ditto! Absolutely agree with every word of this. 

 

Looking forward to coming to see you on your first US tour! (West Coast please!)

[dalsaan]

Tilly and Rhi, thanks for the vote of confidence. The paid gig didn't come off in the end which I'm kind of happy about. It's nerve wracking

[dalsaan]

General update - sleep has been crap. Combination of accidental withdrawals, mixed with dose drop, increased stress at work, menstrual issues and existential angst! Oh happy days.

 

I've been quite concerned about my memory and cognitive abilities of late. My memory has declined quite significantly over the years, I now struggle to concentrate and I find it difficult to work through stuff. Given my work is based, to a large extent on my intellect this worries me. These things haven't improved as I have gone down in doses. They. Have gotten worse. I don't know if this is the effects of a very large, long term sleep debt or the effects of being on mirtazapine for 10 years or the effects of being in wd for 3 years

 

I find that drs, friends and my partner minimise my concerns. They say everyone experiences this as they age. Trust me this is not normal. I haven't read a novel for a year, can't concentrate enough to keep track of plot and characters. I read every night for the first 35 years of my life

 

The only plus side is I get good value out of pay TV because I can watch a repeat of the same show and not know I've seen it :

 

Dalsaan

[leahy]

"I don't know if this is the effects of a very large, long term sleep debt or the effects of being on mirtazapine for 10 years"

 

I worry about this as well. Another mirt sfferer here reassured me that my intellect will come back. I believe it and yours will too. Every day. Today you're tired and that makes things rough.

 

So sorry to hear about your sleep. I slept so well last night after your advice Mag taurine and being very careful with my taper. This is just one of those windows for you. And probably hormonal this time of month. Tonight will be better. You can do this. You're my heroine! :-)

[leahy]

D,

Sorry. I think I meant to say it was a "wave" not a "window". I'm still learning.

[Tilly]

General update - sleep has been crap. Combination of accidental withdrawals, mixed with dose drop, increased stress at work, menstrual issues and existential angst! Oh happy days.

 

I've been quite concerned about my memory and cognitive abilities of late. My memory has declined quite significantly over the years, I now struggle to concentrate and I find it difficult to work through stuff. Given my work is based, to a large extent on my intellect this worries me. These things haven't improved as I have gone down in doses. They. Have gotten worse. I don't know if this is the effects of a very large, long term sleep debt or the effects of being on mirtazapine for 10 years or the effects of being in wd for 3 years

 

I find that drs, friends and my partner minimise my concerns. They say everyone experiences this as they age. Trust me this is not normal. I haven't read a novel for a year, can't concentrate enough to keep track of plot and characters. I read every night for the first 35 years of my life

 

The only plus side is I get good value out of pay TV because I can watch a repeat of the same show and not know I've seen it :

 

Dalsaan

Hi Dalsaan,

 

Cognitive & short term memory impairment have been one of the most significant concerns to me during withdrawal. I have found that sleep deprivation amplifies these issues massively, to an extent that cannot be underestimated. Pre menstrual hormone changes impact upon my concentration span and ability to retain information too (not to mention causing me to be a cranky pants!!). I do not necessarily believe that length of time on SSRIs will preclude your cognitive skills from re emerging. I am in my 15th year of this malarkey but have seen glimpses of what lies beyond it. Maybe due to the fact that, when stabilising / stable, my sleep can be of good quality and duration, whereas it has been pretty messed up throughout the duration of me taking SSRIs. 

 

I use similar markers to gage my cognitive skills. My reading ability has also fluctuated. It was very good when I stabilised on 5mg over 5 months. Not just in terms of ability, but also in enjoyment and motivation to read. When Dr know it all withdrew my prescription and I was forced to drop by 50% to stagger my remaining medication my cognition declined again rapidly as my system was overloaded by this change and reduced to a basic survival state. Your unintentional withdrawals sound like they have had much the same effect. Such drops also initiate existential crises that I just don't have when stable.

 

I know that you have been patient in your withdrawal, Do you think that you would benefit from longer holds? I am planning to hold for 6 months and micro taper from this point to facilitate more gradual transitions between drops.

 

From what you say, you are functioning on a very high level by maintaining a relationship with your significant other, working, nurturing your canine companions and writing and performing stand up. All of these tasks make demands on cognitive functioning, which you appear to be not only coping with, but managing with successful outcomes.

 

Maybe your level of cognitive functioning has not altered significantly, but the cognitive processes that underpin your functioning are not as easy to access as they were pre withdrawal? There are days when my partner will admit I'm a little clumsy in my co ordination, thought and speech. There are also days when he will say I am being too hard on myself and appear to be doing just fine.

 

One thing that has helped me with my cognition is playing word games which 'exercise' my cognitive processes, vocabulary and memory in the same way that reading does to a great extent.

 

I also complete tasks in a non linear way now, flitting from one to the next until they are completed as I cannot focus my concentration on one thing for a long time currently.

 

Maybe if you identify the best time for you cognitively to read a chapter of your book and take it from there. I usually read at night when all is quiet and there are no distractions. This often has the added bonus of aiding my sleep.

 

Be gentle with yourself, Dalsaan and give yourself the credit for your achievements.

 

I wish you a peaceful week, full of opportunities. 

 

Tilly x

[leahy]

I like your line, Daltaan on Tilly's thread I think "Sometimes doing nothing is doing something." I say it to myself all the time when I feel I am not productive which is pretty much all the time lately. Thank you.

[freespirit]

Dalsaan,

 

I can relate to you concerns regarding memory and cognition. My brain felt like mush on Remeron and was not good through wd. I wasn't having as many sleep issues then as I've had since I stopped, but it was hard to concentrate. Grief played a large role for me though too..and it's known that grief affects the mind pretty strongly.

 

A couple of days after I stopped, I felt like an enormous fog lifted and my mind was clear in a way it had not been for many years. That has come and gone, largely influenced by how well I'm sleeping...but it's made me more hopeful it will lift in a more permanent way again.

 

I like Tilly's description of doing things in a non-linear way..that has worked for me too.

[dalsaan]

Dalsaan,

 

I can relate to you concerns regarding memory and cognition. My brain felt like mush on Remeron and was not good through wd. I wasn't having as many sleep issues then as I've had since I stopped, but it was hard to concentrate. Grief played a large role for me though too..and it's known that grief affects the mind pretty strongly.

 

A couple of days after I stopped, I felt like an enormous fog lifted and my mind was clear in a way it had not been for many years. That has come and gone, largely influenced by how well I'm sleeping...but it's made me more hopeful it will lift in a more permanent way again.

 

I like Tilly's description of doing things in a non-linear way..that has worked for me too.

 

I have moved to the non linear approach out of necessity.  I cant do anything else.  My key question is whether to bunker down for a long hold or push on and get off.  I do think changes in my cycle have really impacted me as has my lack of sleep.  

 

I'm very over withdrawing at the moment.   However, I am very appreciative of you - Leahy, Freespirit and Tilly for taking time to write, provide encouragement and share your experiences and strategies.

 

Dalsaan xx

[Tilly]

 

Dalsaan,

 

I can relate to you concerns regarding memory and cognition. My brain felt like mush on Remeron and was not good through wd. I wasn't having as many sleep issues then as I've had since I stopped, but it was hard to concentrate. Grief played a large role for me though too..and it's known that grief affects the mind pretty strongly.

 

A couple of days after I stopped, I felt like an enormous fog lifted and my mind was clear in a way it had not been for many years. That has come and gone, largely influenced by how well I'm sleeping...but it's made me more hopeful it will lift in a more permanent way again.

 

I like Tilly's description of doing things in a non-linear way..that has worked for me too.

 

I have moved to the non linear approach out of necessity.  I cant do anything else.  My key question is whether to bunker down for a long hold or push on and get off.  I do think changes in my cycle have really impacted me as has my lack of sleep.  

 

I'm very over withdrawing at the moment.   However, I am very appreciative of you - Leahy, Freespirit and Tilly for taking time to write, provide encouragement and share your experiences and strategies.

 

Dalsaan xx

 

Hi Dalsaan.

 

I hear and understand your frustrations.

 

When I first joined, I was keen to withdraw as soon as possible. Now, I am content to take it very slow and steady. I have been forced to reduce much quicker than I have wanted to as my GP believes that there is no risk at stepping off at 5mg. I disagree hugely based on knowledge and experience and will take my withdrawal at my pace.

 

Today is all we really have. Personally, I won't knowingly jeopardise the quality of another day of my life after 15 years of SSRIs doing just that. I would prefer to transition gently with the least impact on my nervous system and use the time I spend in withdrawal building my coping skills, resilience and doing the learning that I need to do about who I am and what I want my life to look like beyond this process.

 

You are so very close to the end of this process. The temptation to push ahead must be great. Personally, I would hold and give myself the easiest transition and best chances of success.

 

Take care,

 

Tilly x

[leahy]

Yesterday I was reading the thread about the "gut" and probiotics. Alto said she was sleeping better when she started to drink Goodberry in this thread. Interesting. I'm wondering if it could help me. Maybe it could help you, D? Have you read it?

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1229-probiotics-and-gut-health/

[LLiz]

Hi, Dalsaan,

I can so relate to your cognitive and memory problems--it is one of my biggest sorrows with this whole thing. My normal activities are also extremely brain dependent, and I have had to give some of them up for now. For a while I could not read, either, or drive.

 

I agree with the comments made by several others, especially about the positive value of holds and negative effects of sleep deficits and grief issues. And I would add to that muscle tension and headaches.

 

Also:

After failing over and over at thinking tasks that would formerly have been very doable, I sometimes get scared, blank out and feel that I can't even try them again. Sometimes starting by doing something related that formerly would have been ridiculously easy or doing something using mostly manual skills works better--I do these things and suddenly notice abstract thinking returning spontaneously and on good days wake up actually remembering and thinking about the ideas I had the day before.

 

Accidental withdrawals (also accidental small overdoses) have happened to me, too, and they seem to temporarily affect my cognitive / memory abilities especially negatively.

 

Understanding people help so much with the shame feelings. In withdrawal, I sometimes get my languages mixed up. Today I could not remember how to say goodbye in English (my native language) to someone, and said instead that I could not think. Then he just said goodbye to me in my other language--I did not even know he knew how to say that! Now instead of the shame I would normally feel at not remembering, I think instead about his kindness in smoothing the situation over in that way.

 

And I agree it is not that we are getting old. I really expect that our abilities will return with our eventual recoveries.

 

I hope today is going better for you.

 

LLiz

[dalsaan]

Hi LLiz

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences with me. I is positive to be validated that this isn't an issue of ageing. I'm over this stuff being minimised and dismissed.

 

I am finding ways to deal with this at work. It's probably my stand up stuff that I feel it the most. I have very little confidence in my memory, this adds to the stress of doing standup. But I don't want to stop. This is an important part of my post drug identity.

 

I think I need to move back into acceptance and have faith that this will diminish once I'm less sleep deprived and off drugs completely

 

I appreciate you taking time to share

 

Dalsaan

[Tilly]

Hi Dalsaan,

 

I'm stopping by, while I am able, to send you love hugs and continued healing.

 

Tilly x

[dalsaan]

I've decided to (drumroll) ............ do nothing.  Yes, that's right I'm going to hold-town for a couple of months to give my nervous system a break from withdrawing and get more stable before I make any other medication changes.

 

In that time I am going to try some qi gong, micromanage my sleep regime and minimise my stress by developing strategies around my memory cognition stuff

 

D

[Addax]

Sounds like an excellent plan, Dalsaan!

[freespirit]

Sounds like following the right plan for you at this time. It makes a lot of sense. Doing by not doing (at least in terms of the meds). I hope you find the strategies help not only now, but down the road, whenever you're ready to taper again.

 

Let me know how the qi gong goes. I was all about flowing movements for almost 2 years..now I'm doing a great deal of stretching and back to working with healing sounds again.

[dalsaan]

 

Let me know how the qi gong goes.

 

Will do.  Thanks for dropping by

 

Dalsaan

[dalsaan]

I've done a couple of comedy gigs of late and did really well, got great feedback.   I've also started to develop a 'community' of sorts.  I've not every really had that before.  Its new, interesting, exciting ...

 

Dalsaan

[AliG]

 Wishing the best for you, Dalsaan.  Just dropping by to say "Hi".

[dalsaan]

Thanks AliG, nice of you to drop by

 

D x

[Petunia]

I just caught up with your thread D, and fully agree with your plan of doing nothing, we know how important it is to taper slower as the dose gets lower, to preserve functioning... which you are, and growing and changing and expanding your world and jumping out of your comfort zone.

 

I'm a big fan of the slower than slow taper, with longer holds and smaller cuts, probably because I don't want anyone to end up like me.

 

I've had the same frustrations as you, with people telling me my memory and cognition problems are just normal aging. I had some cognition issues while I was still taking medication, but not enough to be any major concern, it seemed to come on slowly, but the memory and learning issues hit fast around the time I 'crashed' and have been improving very slowly, the improvement has a windows and waves like pattern to it, so I'm certain this is drug and withdrawal related, possibly connected with lack of sleep, or reduced quality of sleep.

 

I used to do qi gong, it was part of chi-ball classes I was taking, actually I was training to be a teacher when withdrawal cut my life off at its knees. The qi gong was my favorite part, I think it might help you with relaxation and sleep. Learning the routines will also help with memory.

[nz11]

Wow just read some of your  thread.

Hey Dalsaan just add my congratulations...gee if anyone can find something to laugh about while going through wdl they deserve a medal....not to mention write a comical script. 

Mind you i think if it wasnt so seriousl some of these doctors could do comic gigs with the laughable nonsense they spout.

 

These low doses sure are difficult hurdles.