abic77: Withdrawal with poop out?

[abic77]

Hi - i have been on Citalopram 10 years.  A year ago i started getting the symptoms i was originally prescribed Citalopram for.

 

I wondered whether, when poop out occurs, if you can start to withdraw from the meds at that point?   Or is it just that the meds no longer work but you don't get withdrawal until you come off them because although they don't seem to be working any more, they are still in your system?

 

I guess I feel like i was withdrawing when poop out occurred but i actually doubled my dose first and still experienced symptoms (I was prescribed the meds for headaches, derealisation-type symptoms, brain fog etc.)

 

Thoughts please?

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, abic77.

 

1. What dosage were you on when the drug popped out?

2. When did you double the dose?

3. Are you still on the double dose?

 

When a drug poops out it's time to taper.  Upping the dose will sometimes give temporary relief but it will be only temporary.  Please read the following from Brassmonkey, one of our moderators, about poop out.

 

TACHYPHYLAXIS OR AS IT’S LOVINGLY KNOWN “POOPOUT”

 (7)

 

Although acute WD and Poopout are related they are not the same thing.  Acute WD is a severe case of WD Symptoms while Poopout is the body tolerating the effects of the drug, trying to work around them, and causing WD symptoms by doing so.  The harder the body rejects the medication the more severe the symptoms.  

 

It all stems from the body being a self-correcting homeostatic organism. It's designed to work with a specific balance of neurotransmitters and will do anything in its power to maintain that balance.  Taking an AD causes some the receptors for a specific neurotransmitter to stop working which floods the body with that NT and supposedly makes us feel better because of the excess.  After a while the body finds ways around this and works to regain homeostasis.  When the struggle for control that ensues becomes acute it is known as Tachyphylaxis, or Poopout.  In order to "cure" it, there must be a clear winner, leaving two options. Updose or taper.  

 

Once Poopout has set in it is going to continue to grow worse, no matter what. To Updose would just be buying a little time. By Updosing the drug is declared the winner, the symptoms subside somewhat, and you move on, but the body continues to fight.  This could last from a few months to a year or so, but in the end, things will go down hill again and leave a person in the same or worse situation and at a higher dosage, which would require a longer taper. To hold during poopout would only prolong the struggle and might make things worse as the body continues its fight for control. 

 

When it comes to Poopout the only way out it down.  If a person tapers, the body is declared the winner, repair work is started on the body and the symptoms subside.  BUT, it takes a long time to undo the physical changes the drug has made, and the presence of the drug is required to maintain those changes while the changes are being repaired. Thereby necessitating a long slow taper.

 

Tapering out of Poopout is a very frustrating process because there are no visible results for quite a long time.  There is not a lot of information available on time frames because Poopout is not a well-documented phenomenon.  Many people don’t realize that they are involved let alone how to treat it. From the information I have seen it generally takes eighteen months to two years before stabilization starts to appear. It then takes another eighteen months before improvements start to be readily apparent. Once improvements have started to appear they will increase in fits and starts and must be monitored by referring to ones WDnormal baseline.

 

-----

 

So it's time to taper.  We recommend tapering by no more than 10% of your current dose every four weeks.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

This link is specifically about tapering Citalopram, including how to get the nonstandard does you'll need for your taper.

 

Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can answer my questions, ask your own questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[abic77]

Hi Gridley,

 

Thanks for the welcome and for the swift response.

 

Quick overview: In summary - Citalopram 20mg 2009 - 2019.  Upped to 30, then 40mg Feb 2019.  Didn't feel any better after 10 months so started taper in Dec 2019.  Each step -10mg around 3-4 weeks each drop. Took final pill 30th March 2020.

 

My story (background):

 

Been on 20mg Citalopram since 2009 (for headaches, brain fog, tiredness, spaced out when then led to depression) with 2 breaks for pregnancy.  Been very happy with it until Feb 2019 when i began to get headaches, brain fog, spaced out and then depression and anxiety etc (symptoms i'd been prescribed it for originally).  Made me tired and anxious and i doubled my dose to 40mg as didn't really know what else to do.  Didn't work and after giving it a good 10 months asked the GP if maybe it had stopped working.  She agreed maybe it had (because at this point i feel she was at a loss as to what else to suggest so went along with it) so we agreed i would start to taper off the Citalopram with a view to trying Sertraline. 

 

I started the taper 19th December from 40mg to 30mg.  Went from 30mg to 20mg on 8th Jan and then 20mg to 10mg on 5th Feb.  I didn't really feel many withdrawal symptoms at those tapering stages.  Started alternating 10mg/0/10mg/0 a couple of weeks later but felt a bit rubbish so decided to stay 10mg (i only alternated for a week). 

 

Finally decided to stop the meds altogether on 30th March so went cold turkey from 10mg (i naively thought that as i hadn't experienced withdrawal with the other stages that i'd be ok.  I'm on day 18 of withdrawal and symptoms have improved a little but i still feel awful and headaches have returned, i have brain fog, feel spaced out and worst symptom is i feel like i can't quite see properly...like something is just off or something. Not nice and pretty scary 😞 

 

In amongst all of this (in the 10 months i was on the higher dose) i had periods of feeling horrendous symptoms and then i'd also have days where i felt completely normal.  I had pretty bad derealisation in that time (on the bad days) which was my worst symptom.

 

I was also diagnosed with chronic migraine and chronic tension-type headache in this time as the headaches etc were that bad i paid privately to see a neurologist.  The Neurologist believed that the derealisation is part of the migraine...

 

Thanks so much for your support 

 

Abi

 

 

 

 

[SufferingCelexa]

@Abi  Thank you for sharing.  I learned that if you want to message someone directly on this post you can add the @ symbol in front of the name, no space.  Hope you are feeling better today.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, abic.

 

It sounds like you have withdrawal symptoms:

5 hours ago, abic77 said:

Finally decided to stop the meds altogether on 30th March so went cold turkey from 10mg (i naively thought that as i hadn't experienced withdrawal with the other stages that i'd be ok.  I'm on day 18 of withdrawal and symptoms have improved a little but i still feel awful and headaches have returned, i have brain fog, feel spaced out and worst symptom is i feel like i can't quite see properly...like something is just off or something. Not nice and pretty scary 😞 

 

How have your symptoms changed in the last week?

[abic77]

Hi Altostrata - thanks for the reply.  I feel like they have improved loads (mainly less dizzy and don't feel like crying every 2 mins any more) but i still feel spaced out and foggy and like i have a touch of DR.  I feel present and not depersonalisation (thank goodness) but do feel like when i'm sat doing some work/crafts with the kids like things look a bit strange.  It's so frustrating....i'm at a bit of a crossroads as i have no idea if the headaches/fog/derealisation is a depression symptom (i don't really feel depressed) or a migraine symptom (i don't really feel like i have migraine either).  

 

I had a decent day yesterday and almost felt back to my normal self.....but today i feel that the symptoms have returned!  

 

Do you think it's possible that the withdrawal recovery can be up and down?  I mean can you feel like symptoms have gone one day then returned the next?

 

Thanks again x

[Erell]

3 hours ago, abic77 said:

Do you think it's possible that the withdrawal recovery can be up and down?  I mean can you feel like symptoms have gone one day then returned the next?

 

 

Hello Abic, 

 

with this sentence, you described exactly the healing pattern : Withdrawal recovery is all about ups and downs. Sometimes a symptom disappears, then come back, or a new symptom takes his place.

 

Have you read this topic ? It will help you to understand :

 

 

Take care ❤️