avanahall: reinstatement question

[avanahall]

After being on Celexa for over 25 years, I did a fast taper from 20 to 5mg Celexa. It has been about 6 months at 5mg and I am having a hard time. I have been in fight or flight almost daily My heart and lungs seem to so quickly move into an anxiety mode, even when there is no reason. I have insomnia, etc.

My life is not good, my relationships are suffering, my body is suffering and I am wondering if I can just go up to 10mg and call it a day? At this point, I do not need to feel as though I have successfully gotten off this med, I need to feel normal again. I can not handle a few more years of this.

Do people succeed by just going back to the meds? I really need help
 

Edited December 10, 2020 by manymoretodays
moved from S and SC, user name added to title

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, avanahall.

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

Reinstatement (or updose) of a very small dose of the original drug is the only known way to alleviate withdrawal.  However, reinstatement works most predictably within 3 months of your last dose.  At six months out, it's risky: it might work or it might make things worse.  Please be aware that the purpose of reinstatement/updosing isn't to eliminate withdrawal symptoms (though it does for some) but rather to bring the symptoms down to a tolerable level.  Six months of waiting to stabilize isn't really that long. Please read:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms. -- at least the first page of the topic

 

Reinstating/updosing to 10mg would be far too much.  Your system is very sensitized from your fast taper, and reinstatement of too much could overwhelm your system and destabilize you further.  If you do decide to reinstate, I would recommend updosing 0.5mg (1/2mg) Celexa--no more--to a total of 5.5mg.  The following link tells how to get nonstandard doses of Celexa.  Prescription liquid Celexa would be the easiest and most accurate method.  Other methods are also described.

 

Tips for tapering off citalopram (Celexa)

 

 

These explain the healing process really well.  It's a slow frustrating process but you will heal.  We just can't predict how long it will take.

 

Brain Remodelling 

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. Get supplements that are single ingredient (not mixed with other types of supplements).

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can complete your drug signature, ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here. 

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by manymoretodays
just took out excess white space

[Gridley]

@avanahall

 

Another of our moderators, ChessieCat, has commented that my post below might be unduly discouraging for an updose of 0.5mg.

 

 

   4 hours ago,  Gridley said: 

However, reinstatement works most predictably within 3 months of your last dose.  At six months out, it's risky: it might work or it might make things worse.

 

Her advice was that updoses (such as your situation) are different from reinstatements and that an updose of 0.5mg (up to 5.5mg) could well be beneficial.  

 

[ChessieCat]

Just to clarify, although there as some things which are posted in the reinstatement topic that are relevant to both reinstatement and updosing, in the case of updosing, so long as you only increase by a small amount and hold for at least 2 weeks before reassessing, then it may be successful.  Even reinstatement after being completely off for 6 months or more can sometimes work but there is no way to know for whom it might work for whom it will not.  What is important is to be very cautious about the amount of the dose and not to get panicked and increase again too soon.

 

It takes about 4 days for a dose to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

It is a good idea to keep notes on paper of your symptoms because that can help you to be objective and you might notice that there is an improvement that you don't feel.  Please note that the idea of updosing isn't to get rid of the withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a bearable level.  It is best to compare how you are feeling with how you felt at your worst, not how you felt at your best or how you want to feel.

 

Here you can find symptom lists, both printable and computer versions with a rating key:

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

And these topics are helpful too:

 

Stability

 

 

 

WDnormal

Edited December 11, 2020 by ChessieCat

[avanahall]

13 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Just to clarify, although there as some things which are posted in the reinstatement topic that are relevant to both reinstatement and updosing, in the case of updosing, so long as you only increase by a small amount and hold for at least 2 weeks before reassessing, then it may be successful.  Even reinstatement after being completely off for 6 months or more can sometimes work but there is no way to know for whom it might work for whom it will not.  What is important is to be very cautious about the amount of the dose and not to get panicked and increase again too soon.

 

It takes about 4 days for a dose to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

It is a good idea to keep notes on paper of your symptoms because that can help you to be objective and you might notice that there is an improvement that you don't feel.  Please note that the idea of updosing isn't to get rid of the withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a bearable level.  It is best to compare how you are feeling with how you felt at your worst, not how you felt at your best or how you want to feel.

 

Here you can find symptom lists, both printable and computer versions with a rating key:

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

And these topics are helpful too:

 

Stability

 

 

 

WDnormal

Thank you. I will make sure and note my changes. If after 4 days I notice that up dosing made me feel worse, what would I do then? Is there no turning back once someone adds more back? 

[avanahall]

18 hours ago, Gridley said:

 

 

Reinstating/updosing to 10mg would be far too much.  Your system is very sensitized from your fast taper, and reinstatement of too much could overwhelm your system and destabilize you further.  If you do decide to reinstate, I would recommend updosing 0.5mg (1/2mg) Celexa--no more--to a total of 5.5mg.  The following link tells how to get nonstandard doses of Celexa.  Prescription liquid Celexa would be the easiest and most accurate method.  Other methods are also described.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am currently on the liquid celexa. 2.5MIL equals 5mg. So what would my liquid dosage change to?

[manymoretodays]

Hi and welcome aboard avanahall,

 

Could you take a look at the signature link, and get that done?

 Please put your withdrawal history in your signature.

you'll see these ^ below other members posts and they are very helpful, to see your context at a glance

 

If you feel notably worse, after updose, then we would usually have you just stop it.  Posting daily, and objectively noting symptoms helps.

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1779-keep-daily-notes-of-drug-schedule-and-symptoms-to-track-patterns

This ^ is a good way to track symptoms, take a look at the link, and pull down the quote in the first post to see more, and a sample note as well

 

It often can take at least 4-7 days, if not longer to note improvement, so patience is required.

What kind of symptoms are you having now?

And when do you take your celexa?

 

2 hours ago, avanahall said:

I am currently on the liquid celexa. 2.5MIL equals 5mg. So what would my liquid dosage change to?

 

The extra 0.5 mg addition to your current dose, will be 0.25 mL(millileters), so you will be taking a total of 2.75 mL each day now.

That will give you the 5.5 mg dose.

 

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[avanahall]

UPDATE: I updosed to 3mil over a month ago and holding. I felt good for about 3 weeks and then started feeling like I did before updosing.
My biggest issue is anxiety and jumping into fight or flight over minor issues. My doc wants to add low dose of lamotrigine and tells me it will help me and that it will not be hard to come off it when I need to. Is 25 lamotrigine going to help or am I setting myself up again? I cant live with this hyper fight or flight every other day. I have so many stressors in my life - I would have to run away to get away from stress.

I don't know what to do but I do know that where I am at is not good 🤥

[Humanist56]

Hi @avanahall

I’m so sorry you’re going thru the anxiety. I truly am, it’s terrible. You should go ahead and create a signature that will permanently show up at the bottom of your posts like the one at the bottom of mine. That’s the only way the mods can help and advise you. They have to have that timeline For them to know what’s going on. 
 

I hope you get some peace and you’re not alone. 

[avanahall]

Crashed and Need Help figuring out what to do

 

Hi Everyone,

 

I am back after being here a few years ago when I did a cold turkey drop off Celexa.

I had reinstated to 5mg and added 5 Lexapro and lived that way for a while until I got into letting my doctor suggest we add something different since the Lexapro was not working, giving my sexual side effects and making me not like my husband.

So started my current situation where I am now crashed, in the pit of hell, not being able to be in my own skin. I do not know what my next step should be. I do not know what I am having a withdrawal from or if I am dealing with possibly serotonin syndrome.

The shame and embarrassment that goes with this have to be the hardest part. I feel so stupid that I got caught up in antidepressant hell. I feel stupid I didn't stay at the 5mg Celexa, I feel stupid that I just made so many wrong decisions. But most of all, I can't live with how I feel right now. It feels like when I cold turkey'd from Celexa 20 to 0.

 

I have reinstated 2.5 to the Lexapro yester since I was only off 2 weeks or less. I feel a tiny bit better today but not much. I do not know what to do about the SNRI's. Is it possible that the Trintrillex did this to me? I have only been 2 days off. Is it possible I have serotonin syndrome? The symptoms are the same as my cold turkey Celexa experience.

Here is my current situation. I have also put in my signature
 

Current medications

Celexa 5mg
Lexapro 5mg
Below were Added

3/2022 Rexalti 1mg– 3 weeks and stopped

4/20/22 Started Cymbalta 20mg for 10 days. Stopped because after a fight with my husband I went into an anxiety/depression (unusual episode)

5/12/22 Started Viibryd 10mg.

5/20/22 Reduced Lexapro from 5mg to 2.5 (After about a week on Viibryd, I felt so great that I cut my Lexapro down from 5mg to 2.5)

5/22/22 I cut Viibryd from 5mg to 2.5

5/28/22 Started feeling bad on Viibryd and stopped

5/28/22 Started  Trentrillex – Got nausea, cut pill in half for 2 days felt horrible.

6/29/22 Stopped Trentrillix

6/1/22 CRASHED into a deep dark pit

6/3/22 – Reinstated 5mg Lexipro bringing me back to the 10mg

I am currently crashed in a deep dark place. I can’t stand to be in my body

 

Any wisdom would be great.

 

Edited June 4, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

[avanahall]

I am in about day 3 of my WD from too quick a drop from Lexapro and adding and replacing SNRI's to the mix. 

My number one symptom is FEAR. I am so afraid that this will get worse. I can't live this way.
My days are hell and nights are a nightmare of insomnia.

 

I feel so alone. 

Any wisdom?

[Shep]

@avanahall What time(s) of day are you taking your drugs? Are you taking any supplements? Please list the time(s) of day and the doses for any supplements and for your two psychiatric drugs you're currently taking. 

 

I'm confused as to when you started taking Lexapro. In your signature, you have Lexapro at 5 mg on the line for "current situation" and that you reduced it on 5/20/22 and increased it on 6/3/22, but what date did you start taking it? Please add that date to your signature. 

[avanahall]

Hi Shep, @Shep

I am sorry. My mind is not clear so I have made errors.

I fixed it in my signature as I couldn't find how to fix it on the post that was held in the approval process. mind is not sharp and my husband caught my errors.

I am taking no supplements right now but I was taking Zinc, Omega 3and , Iodine. To add to the mess, I was on HRT (Progesterone and Estrogen) and just stopped. I was on it for about 3 weeks.

 

I was taking my Celexa, Lexapro and (Viibryd, and other past ones) at night.

Right now I am on 5mg Celexa and Lexapro 5mg
My biggest question if I should updose a small amount of viibryd so I do not go through another med withdrawal? It has been 3 days since my body has had any of the  SNRI and today has been really tough after I had a long window last night. At this point I need relief. I do not think I can survive it getting worse. 

 

 

Here is the updated 
 

Current medications

Celexa 5mg
Lexapro 5mg
Below were Added

3/2022 Rexalti 1mg– 3 weeks and stopped

4/20/22 Started Cymbalta 20mg for 10 days. Stopped because after a fight with my husband I went into an anxiety/depression (unusual episode)

5/12/22 Started Viibryd mg.

5/20/22 Reduced Lexapro from 5mg to 2.5 (After about a week on Viibryd, I felt so great that I cut my Lexapro down from 5mg to 2.5)

5/22/22 I cut Viibryd from 5mg to 2.5

5/28/22 Started feeling bad on Viibryd and stopped

5/28/22 Started  Trentrillex – Got nausea, cut pill in half for 2 days felt horrible.

5/29/22 Stopped Trentrillix

6/1/22 CRASHED into a deep dark pit

6/3/22 – Reinstated 2.5mg Lexipro bringing me back to the 5mg

I am currently crashed in a deep dark place. I can’t stand to be in my body

[Shep]

22 hours ago, avanahall said:

To add to the mess, I was on HRT (Progesterone and Estrogen) and just stopped. I was on it for about 3 weeks.

 

 

Why did you stop? Were you getting side effects? You were on HRT about the same time you started Viibryd and reduced the Lexapro and then started and stopped Trentrillex, so it may be hard to tell what was what. 

 

Please start a drug and symptoms journal so we can see your symptoms within the context of when you take each of your drugs. 

 

The format for your journal is listed below. 

 

On 9/27/2016 at 2:49 PM, Altostrata said:

In the course of discussion in your Introductions forum topic, you may be asked to keep notes on paper of your daily symptom pattern, including when you take your drugs, their dosages, and any symptoms. We ask this because there may be something we can do to reduce the symptoms.

 

What we need to see for every single day over several days is what symptoms you get before and after you take your drugs. If you're not taking any drugs and have withdrawal symptoms, we still need to see your symptom pattern throughout the day:

 

The time of day, dosage, and severity of symptoms are essential information. Include

 

- Time and dosage for all drugs taken throughout the day, psychiatric and non-psychiatric.

- Following each dose, note any symptoms. If you are having a reaction to the drug, it may take hours for a symptom to show up -- that's why we ask you to keep notes all day long.

- If you're not taking any drugs, your symptoms throughout the day.

- Your sleep pattern. Since so many drugs disturb sleep, if you find you're waking in the middle of the night, it could be from a drug you took earlier in the evening. If you're not taking any drugs, there may be ways you can improve your sleep.

And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, looking something like this:
 
6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep