Robert99: trying to get off of paxil, on 20 years, at 5mgs now

[Robert99]

I have been on Paxil close to 20 years now mostly at 20mgs, I believe at one point as high as 40mgs. I tried a few times to get off over the years but side effects were too much. Around 5 years ago starting scaling dose. I originally went on because I was having major issues giving speeches in front of the class at college. I would completely freeze. After college I stayed on because I liked that they made me calmer and I wasn't over thinking things so much and thinking about all the ways things could go wrong.

 

Five years ago I started having panic attacks out of nowhere. Having never experienced before I was in denial for a good 8 months about what was going on. Since then a few times a year will go through these bouts of panic and severe anxiety. I had to cut out all stimulants / caffeine as they are a major trigger.

Not sure if there is a correlation between scaling down and panic attacks. 

 

This last time I was down to less then 2.5mgs (around 1.5mgs) per day. I was cutting a 10mgs pill in 1/4s and then just snapping off a piece of that daily. 

In November 2020 the panic attacks came back with the bad anxiety. I went back to 2.5mgs first, and was still experiencing so over last few weeks went back up to 5mgs. 

Its hard to see how I can ever get off of this and live a normal life (how I feel right now). 

 

Would love some feedback on how to get off of these for good. 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Robert-- welcome to SA, I'm so glad your found us. I'm sorry to hear that you are having trouble getting off of Paxil. It can be done, we have many members who have. It is however, one of the hardest ones to get off of, causing a lot of problems especially at the lower doses.

 

If your latest updoes to 5mg seems to be working then I would stay there for a while and let things settle out and stabilize. Having made several large changes in the past several months you will need to let things stabilize for a while before attempting any further reductions.

 

Paxil is very sensitive to changes in dosage at the lower levels, so it is very important to be accurate in your measuring and take things slow and easy. Getting a prescription for the liquid is an excellent way to go, it will make the small changes necessary much more easy to make. Our recommended starting point for reductions is 10% every four weeks. This seems to work well for many people, but things can be adjusted from there as required. We have been having great success with a method called the Brassmonkey Slide. It is designed to allow a 10% taper but done in such a way as to keep the symptoms at a minimum. I highly recommend it.  It will be a little while before you can start to taper again so we can get into details later.

 

For right now, have a look around the sight, get overloaded with information and ask a lot of questions.

 

BTW thankyou for filling in a signature block, it really helps us see what is happening at a glance. Also this thread is the best place to ask questions about your personal situation. We try not to give advise via PM so we can keep all the information in one place so any of the mods can help at any given time and you will have a complete record of things.

 

Again,  welcome to the group.

[Robert99]

I have a dr appointment tomorrow to get the liquid. Im thinking about going back to 2.5mgs tomorrow and try to stabilize there. How long do I need to stabilize before I can think about starting to scale down? A month? 

[Altostrata]

Hello, Robert. You'll have to see how it goes. If you've had severe withdrawal symptoms, it may take several months or more for your nervous system to settle down.

[Colonial]

22 hours ago, Robert99 said:

How long do I need to stabilize before I can think about starting to scale down?

 

No one can really say how long it will take to stabilize. 

When I stopped my taper after crashing back in 2015 I started feeling better about the 6 month mark.

However I waited until the 9 month mark to begin re tapering.

Depending on how much stress you have in your daily life to begin with and other independent factors how much time you need.

[Robert99]

Hey guys, thanks for your responses. I did get prescription for the liquid paxil today. 

Are there any supplements you recommend for WD? Magnesium and fish oil seem to help a little. Anything else that works?

Hoping I can stabilize at 2.5mgs and then try to start scaling in a few months. Crazy how long it takes to normalize in your brain on this stuff. Cursing the day I got on it!

 

Wanted to also mention a book I just finished. Loving What Is by Byron Katie. 'The Work' really helps me question my stories and thought patterns that get crazy with WD. Been huge when having panic episodes. 

[Colonial]

how do you plan on taking it?

the entire daily dose same time every day or splitting the dose in half every 12 hours?

 

 

[Robert99]

I have always just taken it and its not time release. So plan to just take it once a day. Do you think I wouldn't have as many WD if I did split it up?

[Altostrata]

You're currently taking 5mg, correct?

 

On 1/18/2021 at 7:30 PM, Robert99 said:

In November 2020 the panic attacks came back with the bad anxiety. I went back to 2.5mgs first, and was still experiencing so over last few weeks went back up to 5mgs. 

 

On 1/19/2021 at 1:01 PM, brassmonkey said:

If your latest updoes to 5mg seems to be working then I would stay there for a while and let things settle out and stabilize. Having made several large changes in the past several months you will need to let things stabilize for a while before attempting any further reductions.

 

 

If you're feeling better on 5mg, why are you planning to reduce to 2.5mg so soon after getting severe withdrawal syndrome?

[Colonial]

13 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Do you think I wouldn't have as many WD if I did split it up?

 

Many times people do ok with remaining with how they had always taken it, but if you were changing from a controlled release to a regular pill that might have significant issues.  There is also something to be said that once a system is destabilized, the regular routine of once a day may give a yo yo effect.

The key will be to stabilizing on a dose long enough to know if you just went down too fast or not. 

 

Since your signature line doesn't have a more in depth description of how long you were at what dose and considering you really aren't sure what dosages you were taking it hard to say what is a good dose to attempt to stabilize on but it seems your reporting your last "stable" dose was 2.5mg.

 

Regardless of what dose you choose you will need to give it some time to stabilize.

[Robert99]

Trying 2.5mg, first day. Hoping to stabilize here. If not will go up to 5mgs. I think I can handle this where I am at. Only time will tell I guess. 

 

[Colonial]

 

Do you have an idea of what "stabilizing" would mean for you?

Just remember, there's a big gap between 2.5 and 5mg.

You can pick something in between.

Without knowing how long you were on the 5mgs it's harder to be of any greater help, sorry.

Hopefully You can settle at this dose.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Colonial

[Robert99]

I was only on the 5mgs for around 10 days. I was on less then 2.5mgs for around 6 - 8 months. I really didn't know anything about tapering or that it was even the reason I was having all these symptoms before I found this site. So glad I did. Gives me huge peace of mind to be able to know what it is and put together a plan.

 

[Colonial]

If it was only 10 days than I would guess it wasn't the 5mgs that was making you feel better per se.

If you were on the 2.5 for that long, (or attempting to take as close to that as possible) that seems like a good plan.

It was probably trying to drop that 50% down to the 1.25 that caused the trouble.

 

I had a huge issue in April dropping about 33% from about 0.36mg to 0.24mg that destabilized Me, so the 50% drop was probably it.

Glad you were able to get the liquid so fast!

 

 

[Robert99]

Been on the liquid now since last week. Certainly easier to dose. Taking 2mgs, figure as long as I am having WD and not balanced might as well do that as it is one pull full on my syringe. Not balanced at all yet, ups and downs. Some days I feel really good and some days very anxious. I do feed like the DHA and Magnesium has been very helpful with symptoms. Will stay here and try to let my system calm and balance. Hoping it happens sooner then later. Exercise also really helping.

One of my symptoms is getting really cold and shaky. Also kind of feel like an internal tremor. Wonder if anyone else has experienced that. 

[Colonial]

Yeah, I had some bad episodes in spring when I dropped 30% from 0.36mg to 0.24mgs.

Had some trouble keeping my jaw from shaking and keeping my mouth shut.

Like a loss of motor function, but it was the typical wave-window pattern so, it is what it is.

Temperature deregulation, etc.

Glad you got the liquid!

[Robert99]

Every time I feel like I am good and have balanced and leveled off I get a flare up of major anxiety. I have no patience for the long term nature of how to do this. Very frustrating for me. Can't wait to start tapering off this drug. 

 

[brassmonkey]

I just finished reading through your thread. Since November it has shown numerous large changes in dose with very little recovery time between changes. All these changes are very confusing to your body making it very hard for it to actually stabilize. The symptoms you are feeling are quite normal for this situation.  One thing that many members fail to comprehend is just how long this process takes. Once a person is destabilized it takes many months for the body to settle down to a steady state in their symptoms. It is not going to happen in a few weeks, especially after a number of large dose changes. This is why we stress taking it slowly and in very small steps.

 

What is needed right now is consistency in your dosing and a lot of time for your body to sort things out and stabilize.  I would be looking at holding at your current dose (2.5mg) for at least three months before reevaluating and considering making a small reduction. It quite possibly will be longer. During that time your body will have a lot of swings in symptoms from bad to good and back to bad.  Over time they will settle down to a fairly even feeling of blah day in and day out, with not big swings in either direction. That is the stability we are looking for before continuing to taper.

[Robert99]

Thanks for that. Sometimes needed for grounding and reality. 

 

[Robert99]

Just checking in. Still on 1ml = 2mgs. Still having these swings brought on by stress at work (I run several businesses). 
Really good days where I think that 'I finally got this' to days later feeling super anxious and everything feeling charged (bringing on panic attacks and no sleep). Actually so busy think I may have forgotten a dose or two in the morning which may have caused this last episode. 
This season in life is beyond busy. I am wrapping up several businesses and launching several more. I think this is causing a lot of the dysfunction and stress. 

I would love to start scaling down but honestly don't think I can right now with the major fluctuations. Going to hold and pray for better consistency in the good days. Hoping one day to be off this crap. 

[Robert99]

Things have been very tough last two weeks. Last several days unbearable with anxiety / panic. This panic feeling is the worst. The panic handovers and increased sensitivity to everything. The last two days I doubled dose to 4mgs. Essentially starting the day at a regular dose and then because I feel so bad taking another dose. 

Really seems to help. Very frustrating as I feel like I am taking steps back. Now I don't know whether to try to hold at 2mgs or go back to 4 or 5mgs and stabilize there. With frame of mind and the things I have going on thinking it would ease my mind and make me feel a lot better.

I'm now considering possibly going to get a different drug that is potentially easier to get off of? Does this exist? Maybe lexapro? Does anyone have experience with this?

Any feedback is appreciated. 

[Hanna72]

Hi @Robert99

First off I would like to say good job on getting down to 2mg of Paxil. Being myself a former Paxil user I know how extremely hard going off of it is. 

7 hours ago, Robert99 said:

I'm now considering possibly going to get a different drug that is potentially easier to get off of? Does this exist? Maybe lexapro? Does anyone have experience with this?

There is an alternative, as I myself bridged with Fluoxetine which I am tapering off now How ever there is no guarantees that it will work for you as we react differently as individuals.

If I were you I would stick with extremely slow taper from now on off the Paxil 2mg  also because you have done such a great job reaching such a low dose.

 

I know this process is extremely frustrating and hard, and all we want is to get

off of these meds. Many times I too feel like I am taking steps back, but keep in mind that you are also having windows, which is an excellent indicator that progress is being made. We sometimes forget it, when all we want is just a little more relief.  
Are you using coping skills? I find meditation and noticing my breathing to help. There are so many things one can do to ease the symptoms, just need to find which one will benefit you.
 

On 6/4/2021 at 2:53 AM, Robert99 said:

Really good days where I think that 'I finally got this'

This is really positive.

You can do this, slow and steady will win the race. I would hold at 2 mg  Paxil for some time now.

All my best to you.

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Hanna72

[Robert99]

As I continue my taper things are getting better. In a pretty significant window. Don't get me wrong there are symptoms with every drop but nothing like they used to be. I believe the key is faith, exercise and supplements (and fixing sleep has been a game changer). Feeling like I should be able to get to 1mg by the end of the year, or at lease that is my goal (at 2.6mgs right now). Its been an interesting journey. Wish I would have found this site and been educated way earlier.

 

NAC: 750mgs 2 x per day, DHA fish oil, Magnesium glycinate, Tudca, Citrus bergamot

Probiotics, Whole Food Multi, Extra natural source C, Extra D in winter, Inositol gram 2 x per day

 

Things that help with anxiety on the fly: L-Theanine: as needed, can help take the edge off when anxious, Calm drops for on the go

 

At night for sleep (these work synergistically for me, I’ve tried everything including prescription meds. I wear earplugs which also seem to help. Melatonin: .5mgs - 1mgs, Gaba: 250mgs (no grogginess if I can get sunlight and exercise right away in the mornings). 

 

Other supps: Natural testosterone booster, Greens blend, resveratrol, apple cider vin

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by ChessieCat
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[Robert99]

Considering ketamine as the glutamate response is really interesting to me for rebuilding the damage that has been done by Paxil. Also interested in nicotinamide iv's.

[ChessieCat]

8 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Considering ketamine

 

ketamine-and-esketamine-treatment

 

8 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Also interested in nicotinamide iv's.

 

vitamin-b3-niacin-niacinamide

 

[unblocktheplanet]

Niacin is part of an orthomolecular psychiatry approach to mental illness. I only know about oral doses, not IV, though I have never tried them. SA considers B vitamins activating so discourages their use in WD.

 

 

I recently underwent five Ketamine sessions at our public hospital. $40 each. 0.5mg/kg. They did not relieve depression / anxiety / sleeplessness for me but they seem to for others. Ketamine is a dissociative anaesthetic not a psychedelic. I would be far more inclined to try MDMA, psilocybin or LSD in a therapeutic setting with an experienced & intuitive guide. 

[Robert99]

UPDATE: Now at 1.2mgs pax. Things still going well. Some waves with drops but manageable. 

Been playing around with microdosing psilocybin for last few months. Mixed results, with some benefits. 

Goal is still to be at or under 1mgs by end of the year and by off the poison by end of next year. 

Certainly think game changer has been supp regimen with better sleep.

[Robert99]

UPDATE: Now at 1.2mgs pax. Things still going well. Some waves with drops but manageable. 

Been playing around with microdosing psilocybin for last few months. Mixed results, with some benefits. 

Goal is still to be at or under 1mgs by end of the year and by off the poison by end of next year. 

Certainly think game changer has been supp regimen with better sleep.

 

Been having some memory issues. Not sure if it is covid related or from tapering. 

[unblocktheplanet]

10 hours ago, Robert99 said:

UPDATE: Now at 1.2mgs pax. Things still going well. Some waves with drops but manageable. 

Been playing around with microdosing psilocybin for last few months. Mixed results, with some benefits. 

Goal is still to be at or under 1mgs by end of the year and by off the poison by end of next year. 

Certainly think game changer has been supp regimen with better sleep.

 

Been having some memory issues. Not sure if it is covid related or from tapering. 

Dear Robert, I have memory & concentration issues, confusion, dizziness, disorientation when I'm waving, too, though my poison was a different one. Sleep pretty much eludes me, both in window & wave. Just that I can accept sleeplessness better in a window time.

 

I'd really like to hear more about your supplement regimen & how you got there.

 

Very interested in psilocybin, both in a therapeutic dose with an experienced doula/guide/therapist, and also microdoses. I have psychedelic experience but, well, I'm scared.

 

Please tell me more about your experience with microdosing, both benefits & other.

 

You're sure playing the long game, Robert, with heart. I know you'll get there.

[Robert99]

On 8/20/2022 at 12:20 AM, unblocktheplanet said:

Dear Robert, I have memory & concentration issues, confusion, dizziness, disorientation when I'm waving, too, though my poison was a different one. Sleep pretty much eludes me, both in window & wave. Just that I can accept sleeplessness better in a window time.

 

I'd really like to hear more about your supplement regimen & how you got there.

 

Very interested in psilocybin, both in a therapeutic dose with an experienced doula/guide/therapist, and also microdoses. I have psychedelic experience but, well, I'm scared.

 

Please tell me more about your experience with microdosing, both benefits & other.

 

You're sure playing the long game, Robert, with heart. I know you'll get there.

 

Hi unblocktheplanet,

 

For sleep I take Melatonin (with gaba sometimes). I try not to take it every night but I've been on it pretty consistently for coming up on a year. For me it has improved my sleep greatly. Key for me is when I wake up get direct sunlight. This will help you not to be drowsy. I don't really have any side effects from it and I use to be a straight insomniac so it has been a massive improvement to quality of life. I just wish I would have taken it sooner.

 

For supps I take it has been trial and error. This is what works for me.
 

NAC: 750mgs 1 or 2 x per day (this supp helps massively for anxiety), DHA fish oil, DHEA (low dose 25mgs) Magnesium glycinate, Probiotics, Whole Food Multi, Extra natural source C, Extra D in winter, Inositol 

 

Things that help with anxiety on the fly: L-Theanine (400mgs in the AM, will take another dose if I am feeling anxious on some days, not often though): Calm drops for on the go 

 

At night for sleep (these work synergistically for me, I’ve tried everything including prescription meds. I wear earplugs which also seem to help. Melatonin: .5mgs - 1mgs, Gaba: 250mgs (no grogginess if I can get sunlight and exercise right away in the mornings). 

 

Other supps: Natural testosterone booster, Greens blend, resveratrol, apple cider vin/lemon

 

______________________________________________________________________

 

Exercise has been very important. For me if I can get a brisk walk in the morning (fasted), then some sort of workout later, I try to mix it up as much as possible. 

Diet also is major trigger. I try to intermittent fast as many days as possible, and try to get one longer fast in a week. Eating clean, whole foods and getting rid of dairy, sugar, gluten, red meat as much as possible helps me.

 

Cleanse can be helpful. A lot of these poisons cross our blood brain barrier and build up. The product 'bind' is good to take at night paired with a chelation suppository's like 'Detoxamin'

EMF's are a trigger for me. Getting of my phone and computer helps. Trying to limit social media as much as possible. Too much time spent with these are huge triggers for me. 

 

Prayer/breath work/meditation, spending time being aware, present and in the moment throughout the day really helps. Setup good AM/PM routines. 

 

 

This is what works for me, what things have you found work? 

 

[unblocktheplanet]

Thanks, Robert. Shrink tells me Melatonin doesn’t work on anybody who has ever used benzos. Can’t find a reference like that anywhere.

 

But Melatonin also did not improve my sleep significantly. Tried GABA, too. I use Hylands homoeopathic Biochemic Phosphates (used to be called Nerve Tonic) & their Calms Forte. Think they help!

 

Early waking (often 3am) is my demon. Can’t get back to sleep. Drag.

 

The NAC for anxiety is really interesting! I can only find 600mg doses, thus 1200 or 1800mg/day. The only distributor here is so often out-of-stock of NAC that it must be really popular & maybe works! 

 

I learned two items from this Psychiatric Times article. It appears the principal benefit from NAC is its production of Glutathione. Q: Therefore, why not just take Glutathione? Next up, takes three months to become effective. Q: Has that been your experience?

 

For a long time, I avoided adaptogens like Theanine due to suspected hypocortisol.

 

“Worked” for me! Wow, is that ever relative! Maybe nothing so far (since April 2018 when I hit tolerance)! But my grounding practices are religious bedtime @ 930pm, very little caffeine or alcohol, half-hour brisk walk, 40-50 minutes of yoga postures with breathing, and sitting twice a day.

 

Mornings have never really been my friend! I’m at the point I think I should give low-impact (hey, I’m old!) cardio a go. Yoga may not be enough. And I should sun my eyes more in the AM.

 

My diet is good, whole foods, good oils, and pescetarian (since 1966). Very anorexic when I’m wavy. Little—not no—dairy, wheat or sugar. In any case, no whites. To micromanage my diet further feels pretty beyond me.

 

I’ve been a big supplements guy my whole life. I was taking a break for lab tests when I happened upon this great SA community. Now I’m pretty chary to reintroduce. Would like to get B12 & Folate, D & K, CoQ10, Curcumin, Reservatrol. The body needs these nutrients & we really don’t get enough from food. But the anxiety cycle from activation is really nasty. 

 

Magnesium (300mg HS) & Ultra-Omega3 (500mg EPA/250 mg DHA HS) has not helped with that much. There are promising studies on DHA for depression but at higher doses; this stuff is expensive. Just can’t seem to motivate myself to take that step.  

 

I’m lucky never to have gotten onto social media! Try to avoid most news, too.

 

Where I hit the snag is that presence, that awareness. Can’t seem to find it. Maybe I’m trying too hard.

 

I notice you’re making great progress at tapering. Wishing you strength.

 

 

CJ

Bangkok

 

[Robert99]

Well fast forward a year. From 1.2mgs to .4mgs and ready to drop. Symptoms very manageable. Hoping to be off completely in the next 6 months. 

L-theanine and occasional SAMe helps on rough days.

Would like to reintroduce tea at some point. Caffeine seems to be a huge trigger for me. 

[DancingBee]

Congrats on doing well and being so close to the end of your taper and off the drugs! Thanks so much for the update.

[Robert99]

Six months later I'm at .18mgs. Not in any hurry I guess because still have flair up symptom wise with the drops. Things also got very stressful last 6 months. So listening to body and taken it easy. Should wrap this up by end of year for sure.

[Erimus]

6 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Six months later I'm at .18mgs. Not in any hurry I guess because still have flair up symptom wise with the drops. Things also got very stressful last 6 months. So listening to body and taken it easy. Should wrap this up by end of year for sure.

Great work, Robert.