Jump to content

Redd: Covid vs Vaccine - long term PAWS side effects


Redd

Recommended Posts

Hi guys,

I tried to post this in the Symptoms and self-care forum but couldn't do so for some reason, so I'm posting here.

 

I am 33 year old and suffer from PAWS, especially bloated and painful stomach and nerve system issues. My withdrawal was 10 years ago and I still suffer from post acute withdrawal syndrome.

I am very afraid that the Pfizer Covid vaccine will aggravate my PAWS symptoms for the long term, but on the other hand I'm afraid that if I get Covid the side effects would also aggravate my PAWS symptoms.

 

So I was wondering does anyone have any take on long term side effects from Covid and from the Pfizer vaccine that might effect PAWS? so I could weigh my risks..

I wanted to wait with the vaccine, but I'm kind of afraid that waiting too much will expose me more to Covid, although I try to take all the relevant precaution.

 

Also, as some say that there will be annual vaccines against Covid (much like the flu vaccines), I was thinking maybe it's a good idea to take some blood tests before and some months after the vaccine for comparison, so I could decide whether to take it annually if needed (if there are no major side effects and effect on the tests). Which blood tests would you recommend me to do ?

 

Thanks guys for your help, this is a great website with great resources and members!

Take care and be healthy.

Link to comment
  • Moderator

Hi Red-- welcome to SA. The site is set up so that a new members first few posts have to be in the introduction forum and are only visible to the moderation staff.  That way we get to know you and new members don't get lost elsewhere in the site and overlooked. This thread will be your touch point with the site, it is for asking questions, keeping notes and making friends.

 

I'm sorry to hear that your have been suffering PAWS for so long. We can get some more information on that later. The COVID vaccine is so new tat there really is no data on how it reacts to different conditions so it is really hard to predict how any one person will react. My wife and I have completed both shots of the Pfizer vaccine and reacted quite differently. The first shot caused a sore arm for both of us for a couple of days. With the second shot I reacted in an hour or so getting quite tired and  dragged out, went to sleep for the afternoon and started to feel better the next day. My wife was fine until the next day and then was down for the count for several days, headache, nausea, exhaustion, anxiety. Other people we know have had similar experiences mild to bad.

 

From people I know and things I've read getting the virus is not something to take lightly. Yes there are people who have minimal symptoms from it, but it is proving to be quite deadly and the month or more of acute symptoms makes ADWD look like having a mild cold. Not to mention the long term effects of the virus that are coming to light. Personally I didn't like the idea of getting a vaccination because I don't trust the drug companies, their development process and the lack of testing that was done. But the alternative of getting the virus and the effects it has on everyday life had to override my concerns, so I got the shots. If it's going to be an ongoing yearly process, then so be it, I would rather knowingly face a few days of discomfort than a prolonged painful battle for my life. 

 

Like I said we have very little data to go on so we can not make a call as to how the vaccine will interact with PAWS. Do research, read everything you can and try to make as informed a decision as possible. We have several threads dealing with COVID and the vaccine so we are trying to gather all the information we can and anything you can contribute will be greatly appreciated.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

Link to comment
  • 3 weeks later...

Thank you so much brassmonkey !

This really helps me and I really appreciate your advice and guidance!

 

Sorry it took me some time to reply, I have been experiencing strong PAWS and weakness in the last weeks..

I see that there are many responses in Symptoms and self-care forum regarding the vaccine, but since I cannot reply there, I was wondering how can I participate in the conversation there? and when will I be able to reply in that forum?

I would like to add to the conversation a question if anyone experiencing PAWS (years after withdrawal) took the vaccine and what was the experience? (focus more on the reaction weeks/months after the vaccine and not necessarily the immediate reaction). 

 

Also you mentioned we can get some more info on PAWS, I would love that, as this affects my everyday life..

I have many symptoms, some subsided over the years, but I suffer mostly from bloated and painful stomach (all the time), nerve system issues, trouble sleeping, weakness, hormonal imbalance, and weirdly enough- plugged ears..  and my body is much more sensitive than it used to be.

 

I tried many therapies, some helped for some symptoms, like acupuncture to help with my immune system, and I also try to eat low carb diet (started with Keto and after some months moved to low carb, as no carbs at all makes me feel more weak. The meat supposed to help with the Serotonin depletion and I feel that it does help for some degree), do sports and go to therapy, but still haven't been able to shake all those awful symptoms. They are with me all the time.. although sometimes I do have better days or days when my symptoms are worsen.

 

Since it has been 10 years I many times think this will accompany me my whole life.. which is a very sad thought for me as this really affects my life..

 

Do you have any suggestions for me for therapies, doctors that might help or anything else?

 

How about CBD oil and cannabis? I'm very afraid to try any drug even if it's natural, but maybe the latter or the former could help ? I'm afraid it will make my symptoms worse or create some dependency..

 

Thanks so much again!!

 

 

Link to comment
  • Moderator

Now that your second post as been approved the whole world of SA has opened up for you. You can comment on any thread and research as much as you like.

 

I'm running late ATM, but will get back to you soon.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

@REDYou may have already found this thread, but just in case, here it is:

 

Coronavirus / covid19, and psychiatric drug tapering & withdrawal. Covid19 vaccine.

 

Please feel free to read and share your own experiences and research. 

 

Also, please add a signature so that members will know your history. 

 

Please add a signature.  Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can. 

  • Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
  • Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
  • Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
  • Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
  • A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
  • This is a direct link to your signature:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

More information on the signature is here:

 

Please summarize your withdrawal history in your signature

 

 

Link to comment
  • Shep changed the title to RED: Covid vs Vaccine - long term PAWS side effects
  • 1 year later...

Severe stomach bloating and pain after only 2 months of SSRIs and cold turkey. 11 year after- still suffering every minute. Electrotherapy, HBOT feedback?

 

I'm a 35 year old, 11 year ago I took SSRIs (during a temporary stressful time), for only 2 months- St john's wort for 2 weeks, which cause me immediately serious side effects- severe stomach and body bloating, rash and many more physical symptoms. When I complained the psychiatrist changed the medication to Citalopram for approximately 5 weeks. I also suffered severe physical side effects with this medication- stomach pain, nausea, insomnia, as well as anxiety and OCD which I didn't have before. So taking the SSRIs for mild and temporary stressful situation proved to be a huge mistake.

 

After 2 months the suffering was so impossible, so I quit the drugs cold turkey (didn't know I need tp taper).

 

Afterwards my symptoms got worse- my most prominent symptom now is constant stomach pains which are caused by severe stomach bloating (even when I sleep, regardless of nutrition). Other symptoms are constant mucus and a flu-like feeling (plugged ears, runny nose..), fatigue, weakness.

 

I have gone through all sorts of medical checks, and after nothing was really found the doctors said I probably have some damage to the stomach nerve/serotonergic system due to the drugs (which makes sense as most of the serotonin is produced in the gut). I have been doing all sorts of treatments- both physical and mental, such as biofeedback, CBT, EMDR, acupuncture, physiotherapy, supplements, nutritional therapy (vegan vegetarian, keto, and now I eat mostly meat with low intake of carbs), and many more.. and nothing helped so far for my physical symptoms and pain.

 

These stomach symptoms are so awful, I never would have thought that I would have those symptoms and will still have them 11 years after.. they seems to get worst as time goes by and I'm so desperate as it seems my body cannot heal and is damaged for good, although I gave it 11 years and invested in so many treatments. This is total suffering, day by day minute by minute. I cannot remember the last time I had no pain in my stomach, no bloating, ability to sleep and not get up by pain, eat whatever I want and go to the toilet with no problem.

 

I was thinking on trying HBOT or electrotherapy to help with reviving my stomach nerves and normal function. Does anyone have good experience with these treatment for similar symptoms to mine?

Would love to hear from similar cases or any other ideas how my body nerve and serotonergic system can heal.

 

Thanks and I wish good health to all of us.

 

Edited by ChessieCat
Resized font / added full title before shortening
Link to comment

Have you tried fasting, NAC, red light therapy, bovine collostrum with lactoferrin?

 

  • It's hard to be bloated if you have nothing in your stomach and fasting is good for many things and allows "a fresh start" when breaking it
  • NAC reduces mucus while being a buildingblock for the main antioxidant
  • Red light has the ability to energize the nervous system and create change deep inside the body, ie the gut
  • bovine collostrum is good for gut health and many things

 

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

Link to comment

Thank you so much @Hopela🙏

 

I have tried fasting, but this has not helped unfortunately. It seems that my gut, bloating and phlegm (which comes from the gut) issues are not affected by nutrition. 

 

I will look into the other 3 options you suggest. Haven't heard of them. What is exactly a red light therapy? How is it being done? 

 

Thanks so much again! I really really appreciate this 🙏

Link to comment

The mentioned ideas are just things I've found helpful or interesting after quite some research.

 

Red light therapy can be done with large panels away from the body or pads put on the body. The most effective method for local treatment and you wallet is skin contact pads. Certain wave lengths found in the red and infra red spectrum can penetrate the bodies tissue and thereby have deeper effects. I don't know if there are studies on it's use on the gut. But the light would make an impact which could be good or bad or of no effect.

 

Movement and exercise is usually also good. If hadn't liked hard exercise I would have considered a rebounder, a low impact, funny way to create flow and change in the body in the comfort of ones home. There's science behind it's use.

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

Link to comment

Thanks so much Hopela! 

I will look into the red light therapy, and thanks for the explanation. 

I do exercise, though it's so difficult when you are in pain and cannot sleep because of this. 

 

I really appreciate your help, hope one of these ideas will help me relief the pain I'm in🙏 seems unreal it has been 11 years, so I must try more options. 

Link to comment
  • Mentor

I hope you feel better. I've had problems with abdominal bloating since tapering gabapentin, which I'm now off, but I still have the problem. Stomach stuff is the pits. Glad you have been getting workup.

Now: 100 mg Zoloft am, 50 mg Trazodone.  Daily drug burden decreased from 2050 in 2018 mg to 150 mg 🐢🐢

Zoloft: 1/24/23 increased to 100 mg after suicide attempt 9/17/22 cut 6 mg, 8/14/22 cut 6.5 mg, 5/7/22 cut 12.5 mg 3/20/22 cut 12.5 mg 10/26/21 cut 6 mg 10/17/21 cut 5 mg, 9/17/21 Cut 3 mg,  9/13/21 cut 4 mg, 8/29/21 Cut 2 mg 8/8/21 Cut 3 mg  7/30/21 Zoloft: Converted 25 mg to liquid. Also take 100 mg pill & 25 mg pill=150 mg total
🌞 Feb 28, 2021 0 mg Gapapentin 2021 Gaba each dose 4x/day: Feb 27 7 mg (one dose only), Feb 10, 7 mg, Jan 14 10 mg 2020 Current taper schedule from Aug 30-present: drop 8 mg every 2-3 weeks. Aug 20 31 mg, Aug 18, 33 mg, July 29, 35 mg, July 23 38 mg, July 22 40 mg Jun 24 42 mg, Jun 15 44 mg, Jun 9 48 mg, May 22 50 mg, May 14 54 mg, May 7 56 mg, Apr 16 58 mg, Mar 28 60 mg, Mar 18 62 mg. Feb 26 64 mg. Feb 19, 66 mg. Jan 23, 70 mg. 2019 Dec 19, 72 mg. Nov 14 ,76 mg. Aug 8, 80 mg. Aug 6, 85 mg. Jul 26, 90 mg. Jul 11, 95 mg.

Jul 16 trazodone from 100 to 50 mg.

Jun 17-July 10 Slowly changed gab fr pill to liquid at same dose 100 mg 4x/d.

Apr 24 Stopped klon!!! 🌞 Apr 4  Decreased gaba to 400 mg (100 mg 4x/day)-Apr 4, 2019   0.25 klon March 11  Klonopin .5 mg twice daily, varied dose til Apr 15. Started Klon fast taper 25%, short use

Mar 16, 450 mg gaba 3x/day cut 600 mg--not exact!--updose after learning w/d

Feb 20, 2019 1800 mg gabapentin; MD taper; off 3 days=mvt disorder & autonomic instability. July 2018 temazepam 15 mg 1-2; prn several x/wk til Jan/Feb 2019 when cold turkey, flu illness for months

July 2018 started gabapentin 100 3x/day; titrated up to 1800 mg (600 3x/day)

Buspar, I forget how much, 2 pills a day Jan 2017-July 2018 cold turkey. On Zoloft since maybe 2004? After trying many.

*I speak from my experience. Nothing I say is medical advice. I'm not a doctor.

Link to comment
  • Altostrata changed the title to Redd Severe stomach bloating and pain after only 2 months of SSRIs and cold turkey. 11 year after- still suffering every minute. Electrotherapy, HBOT feedback?
  • Administrator

Hello, @Redd

 

It sounds like you had an adverse reaction to St. John's Wort that might have been aggravated by citalopram, or you might also have had an adverse reaction to citalopram. Or, you might have developed a coincidental stomach condition.

 

Have you had an h. pylori test? Have you seen a gastroenterologist?

 

It seems probable that your current symptoms are from the stomach condition, not related to withdrawal. Under these circumstances, we would not suggest reinstatement of an antidepressant.

 

You should also be cautious about taking supplements such as NAC, which can irritate the stomach. Are you taking a batch of supplement now? Strongly recommend you research every ingredient you take to make sure none of them might be irritating.

 

St. John's Wort is an MAOI that acts on monoamine oxidase, a substance in the digestive system related to diamine oxidase (DAO), an important digestive enzyme. Histamine intolerance is one result from lack of DAO production.

 

If someone has withdrawal-related stomach problems, we often suggest a non-irritating diet that allows them to rule out foods that cause difficulty. You might have done this already. See 

 

Elimination or exclusion diets for reactions to food (food intolerance)

 

Histamine intolerance

 

Otherwise, we're not going to be able to suggest treatment for your stomach condition, we don't know anything about how to treat it.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment

Thanks @Altostrata.

I'm pretty sure it all happened due to the pills, as I didn't have this condition before and I have gone through all the gastro tests (and everything came back fine, also h pylori) it seems that the symptoms started with the pills and relate to the nerve system. 

 

Thanks anyways, I will keep searching for new treatments and would check any supplement (currently I don't take none, since the SSRIs I am sensitive to most supplements and need to carefully use them). 

 

Thanks! 

Link to comment

Thanks @ShiningLightfor the encouragement.

 

It's such a shame that you have bloating too since the pills, such an awful symptom. Hope you feel better too, and feel free to share with me if you find any solution to this. I will also update you (and here) if I find treatments that help. 

 

 

Link to comment
  • Administrator

I would not blame it on serotonin or get stuck on blaming the antidepressants. It sounds like you might have weak DAO production. This is not a widely recognized condition. A lot of people spend a lot of time seeking a diagnosis for it until they find a specialist. An MAOI such as St. John's Wort might exacerbate weak DAO production.

 

Suggest you join Facebook groups for histamine intolerance and discuss this with them.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment

I will check the DAU thing, though I tried almost every nutrition program possible and nothing helped. Also, I have other symptoms that appeared right when I took SSRIs, such as anxiety, plugged ears, OCD, fatigue, vertigo, wounds heal slowly, blood pressure drops and feeling like fainting and so forth.. All seems connected to the pills in some way, as again, I didn't have these symptoms before. The doctors also think it's related to the pills, but can't really explain how. The Biofeedback I'm doing with a neuroscientist also indicate imbalance of the nervous system.

Link to comment

Also I forgot to mention, that for the stomach- that when I rest the situation becomes worst, but when my nervous system is active it seems to be getting a bit better (even if it means that I'm stressed).. Even with the biofeedback, when the graphs indicated that my mind rests- the physical symptoms even got worst. So it seems to me that something might relate to the vagus nerve activity or something of the autonomic system activity. Hope that makes sense..

Link to comment
  • Administrator

If I were you, I'd get out of the frame of mind presuming your symptoms are  psychiatric or psychosomatic, and start talking to other people with chronic stomach problems. This community is not specialized in that way.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
  • ChessieCat changed the title to Redd: Covid vs Vaccine - long term PAWS side effects
  • Moderator Emeritus

@Redd I've moved your new topic to your Introduction topic to keep your history in one place.

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

Link to comment
  • 1 year later...
On 10/20/2022 at 2:13 AM, Redd said:

Also I forgot to mention, that for the stomach- that when I rest the situation becomes worst, but when my nervous system is active it seems to be getting a bit better (even if it means that I'm stressed).. Even with the biofeedback, when the graphs indicated that my mind rests- the physical symptoms even got worst. So it seems to me that something might relate to the vagus nerve activity or something of the autonomic system activity. Hope that makes sense..

Did you get ruled out for SIBO or low stomach acid? 

5/10-viibryd 15 to 10 start 10 prozac

5/17-adrenaline surges, panic, viibryd to 7.5

5/20-stopped viibryd-akathisia

5/23-stopped Prozac

6/2-reinstated viibryd 5mg

6/7-10 mg-better x 1 week only

6/13-15 mg-same thing

6/22-20 mg-same thing but akathisia improved

7/7-viibryd 25 mg
7/7-started Lunesta to sleep, 0.25-0.5 mg daily.
8/1-viibryd reduced to 20 mg

8/1-PRESENT microtapering 0.25-0.5 mg ativan. at 0.083 mg.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy