ScottishLass: hello and some help please

[ScottishLass]

Just now, ChessieCat said:

Please state this as 16mg (4mls).  It just makes it less confusing when reading the dose information.  The milligram dose is consist.  The mls strength can be different between different prescription liquids.  As you get lower you might start diluting your liquid which will change the ml amount but the dose amount would still be the same.

 

The less confusing it is stated reduces the chance of errors being made.

Oh, I see. I understand now. I didn’t realise mls could be different. Thank you. I will do that. 

SL

[ChessieCat]

10 minutes ago, ScottishLass said:

Yeh as I said above I need to remind myself I’m tapering still and be careful.

 

Yes, you need to listen to your body and taper according to that.  Also take the following into consideration which are in Post #1 of the Prozac tapering topic:

 

  

On 7/3/2011 at 4:11 AM, Altostrata said:

Prozac has the longest half-life of any SSRI. After you take it for a few days, half-life is about 16 days. Fluoxetine itself has a half-life of 2-4 days, but as it is processed, your body creates an active antidepressant metabolite, norfluoxetine, which has a half-life of 7-15 days. So Prozac keeps on extending its half-life as it is metabolized.

 

On 7/3/2011 at 4:11 AM, Altostrata said:

Is Prozac "self-tapering"?
Because of its very long half-life, Prozac has the reputation of being "self-tapering," meaning it requires only a short taper. However, some people do suffer withdrawal from Prozac, just as severe as other SSRIs. Because of the long half-life, withdrawal symptoms simply take longer to appear.

 

[ScottishLass]

Thank you @ChessieCat 🙏🏻

[Onmyway]

1 minute ago, ScottishLass said:

@CheekyYou are right too. I have been getting a little over-confident...or avoidant. Seems silly now. I will be careful. It’s only when I read back these messages I saw that.  I will slow down the head and the process. Breathe a little. 😊🙏🏻

Thank you 

SL

@ScottishLass 1mg every month seems OK, it's less than 10% but I would really hold for a month if you can now because the bridge is still new (given Prozac's delayed effects). I got worried when you said you'd drop 1mg in a week (which would be 10/10) and your last drop was 20/9, so that would be only about 3 weeks. That's what I meant with the advice to slow down. 

 

I think after a severe upset anything seems better and our reference point changes. When I started ADs I thought I was anxious! Oh dear, I had no idea what intense anxiety really meant until I went into WD!

 

So relatively speaking you are probably feeling much better. 

 

From my experience, things can change from one day to the other (both windows to waves and vice versa). I was in 'remission' for almost a year when I was not tapering and I felt back to normal but things came back as soon as I started tapering. The W&W pattern is real (unfortunately). Have you seen these two links? The first one helps explain the windows and waves.  It's one of my favorite posts on this site. 

 

What is happening in your brain? - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

 

Slow and steady wins the race here. Or makes it more bearable. 

 

IFS has been going OK for me in general. I like my therapist quite a lot. Let's see if he's a match to neuroemotions  But I absolutely understand wanting to take a break. This work can be intense and we are already battling so many things. I was just writing in the IFS thread that I will do therapy until it is useful. I have, previously taken a break when things have become overwhelming. I like that I have an IFS buddy in you

 

Hope your window lasts a very very long time, hopefully till the end of your taper!!

OMW

 

[ScottishLass]

So, I mentioned I’d had some return of RLS and body/mind agitation at night this week after a period of respite. I had actually forgotten about it like it never happened. Kind of thought it would go away quickly. However, tonight, or this morning it’s 2.20am, it is bad. Really bad.  I had to get up, walk, move. Pace.   I’m so tired.  I could rip my legs off it’s so uncomfortable. It was accompanied by its friend panic and spiralling thoughts.  It takes your breath away.  I can deal with it better now. I know it. I’ve been breathing and trying to de-escalate the fear, question it, see it, let I go.  I’m disappointed though. Scared it’s still here. Bloody hell. Is it in reaction to me dropping the Prozac by 2mg from 18mg to 16 mg a week and a half ago? Is it the Duloxetine withdrawal going on underneath still, masked by the Prozac? Is it just as things were and I’ve just had a window and am now going into a wave.  So disappointed. It’s like I’d managed to block all of this out for a couple of weeks.  Forget it ever happened.  Concept of time a bit skewed.  
I’m off work till Thursday, I guess at least if I need to and it happens I can sleep tomorrow.  Maybe tonight is the last night of this. I hope so.  I could deal with the idea of a few nights…but it getting more severe in nature and continuing. I really hope not. Please god or whoever.  Sorry for the ramble. Its helping to distract, off load. 
SL

[JesusSavemefromWD]

I think u are tapering too soon …. After the horrible cymbalta withdrawal, which luckily Prozac relieved, ur brain is not ready for another withdrawal. Just my humble opinion, not an AD WD expert

[Cheeky]

I agree with @JesusSavemefromWD don’t make the mistake that your feeling better and taper again. I be made mistakes doing that. You should really give yourself at least 5 months to

make sure your better from the change to Prozac. I know how bad we want if these drugs but going through withdrawals are the worst 

[ScottishLass]

Yeh, I think you may be right. I just thought things were better.  That maybe I was there now.  I feel stupid.  Last night was really bad for most of the night.  I just didn’t expect it again. I really didn’t. That’s 3 or 4 (I lose count) nights in a row getting progressively worse. It has reduced today but I still feel it in the background today. Strange buzzing.  I’m dreading tonight. Praying maybe it will be ok. I thought reducing Prozac would reduce those symptoms. I think I’m getting mixed up with what is/was Duloxetine WD, Prozac adverse effects or tapering p WD. I’m swithering whether I should increase the P or stay where I am.  I keep running out of oral syringes as the numbers rub off.  I permanent marked one where but that came off. I wish you could get it in tablet form. I wonder if increasing back will stop these symptoms or increase? At this point if Prozac works I would increase. I just need to be stable. I really have to be. I can’t go back to Duloxetine WD.   Never. Anyway, I’m going to think about things.....and pray that it’s just a bump. 

Kind thoughts to all. 

SL

[ScottishLass]

I really didn’t see it as a window. I really convinced myself i was back. I feel so fecking stupid.  Is it common that people do that.  Have there first really good window (relatively speaking) and think it’s all over. I can’t believe how the mind compartmentalises all the crap so that it’s forgotten. It didn’t happen. It’s over. Then boom💥....it’s tricked you again. A wave or whatever this **** is starts again. So cruel. 

[Cheeky]

7 hours ago, ScottishLass said:

Yeh, I think you may be right. I just thought things were better.  That maybe I was there now.  I feel stupid.

You not stupid I’ve done the same thing. You think wow I’m me again and you get your confidence back them a wave hits. It just so disheartening. 

[mva96]

SL I’m in the exact same boat as you. Severe/agitation and akathisia from Prozac reinstatement. We actually spoke through PMS if you remember. 
 

I don’t have any advice to offer you other than hang in there. I just spent the last 30 minutes thrashing around as screaming into a pillow. 
 

we have to hold on. 

[Altostrata]

21 hours ago, ScottishLass said:

Is it in reaction to me dropping the Prozac by 2mg from 18mg to 16 mg a week and a half ago?

 

It takes about 2 weeks for a reduction in Prozac dosage to fully take effect.

[ScottishLass]

 

3 hours ago, mva96 said:

SL I’m in the exact same boat as you. Severe/agitation and akathisia from Prozac reinstatement. We actually spoke through PMS if you remember. 
 

I don’t have any advice to offer you other than hang in there. I just spent the last 30 minutes thrashing around as screaming into a pillow. 
 

we have to hold on. 

@mva96 thanks for stopping by and so sorry your experiencing this fecking awful agitation. Yeh, it’s 3am here and I want to remove this body.....aaaaaaarrrrgggghhhh....and it’s the accompanying panic and fear that seems to wash over, take your breath away and overwhelm. It feels so physiological. I’m trying not to not run from it, accept it, let it go but when I’m up for work in 3 hrs it just sucks.  Why are things so bloody hard.  You’re right though all we can do is hold on.  Thinking of you. 

SL

[mva96]

@ScottishLassgah. I totally get you. I’m lucky (?) enough to be unemployed right now but I can’t imagine how bloody hard it must be to be dealing with this insanity on top of work. You’re incredibly brave. 
 

there have been a couple of things that have helped me slightly, far from a cure but it might be worth a shot. Firstly was a weighted blanket. It made the agitation decrease a bit. Secondly was a hot water bottle directly over my chest where the agitation was coming from. 
 

lastly, speak to your GP or psych about propalolanol. 
 

I found it reduced the agitation and restlessness. It’s not addictive but probably needs be be tapered. At this point anything that reduces your suffering is worth it. Hang in there, we will make it out. 

[ScottishLass]

13 hours ago, mva96 said:

@ScottishLassgah. I totally get you. I’m lucky (?) enough to be unemployed right now but I can’t imagine how bloody hard it must be to be dealing with this insanity on top of work. You’re incredibly brave. 
 

there have been a couple of things that have helped me slightly, far from a cure but it might be worth a shot. Firstly was a weighted blanket. It made the agitation decrease a bit. Secondly was a hot water bottle directly over my chest where the agitation was coming from. 
 

lastly, speak to your GP or psych about propalolanol. 
 

I found it reduced the agitation and restlessness. It’s not addictive but probably needs be be tapered. At this point anything that reduces your suffering is worth it. Hang in there, we will make it out. 

Thanks @mva96

Really appreciate you popping by and for the advice. 😊 Given the really crappy night again last night symptom wise, today has actually so far🤞been manageable. I surprisingly made it through work unscathed. I was productive, controlled and ok. Hoping for a reprieve tonight but bolstering the reserves in case it’s bad again too. One more day of work to get through till the w/e. Then I can breathe a little. X Hope your day has been ok. 

SL

[ScottishLass]

So the RLS and body agitation are back consistently at night. I don’t get it. Tonight also burning in hands and arms which I’ve not had since early Duloxetine WD. The fear feeling is also there, like a real rush and wave. A heavy physiological response.  I dont understand. All I’ve done is reduce Prozac by 4 mg since 06/08 (from 20mg tablets to 18 mg/4.5 ml liquid and then 20/09 from 18 mg  to 16 mg/4ml liquid. 

🤯 it seemed to be working. I dared to think it was. Wtf.  Now I wonder if I need to go back up to 18mg or 20mg and stay there. This is such a head****. I have no idea what to do for the best. I wish this was done. It’s so constant and never-ending.😦

 

SL

[Cheeky]

25 minutes ago, ScottishLass said:

So the RLS and body agitation are back consistently at night. I don’t get it. Tonight also burning in hands and arms which I’ve not had since early Duloxetine WD. The fear feeling is also there, like a real rush and wave. A heavy physiological response.  I dont understand. All I’ve done is reduce Prozac by 4 mg since 06/08 (from 20mg tablets to 18 mg/4.5 ml liquid and then 20/09 from 18 mg  to 16 mg/4ml liquid. 

🤯 it seemed to be working. I dared to think it was. Wtf.  Now I wonder if I need to go back up to 18mg or 20mg and stay there. This is such a head****. I have no idea what to do for the best. I wish this was done. It’s so constant and never-ending.😦

 

SL

SL I think you’ve come down too quickly. I went from 18.25mg to 15mg and suffered badly because of it, I had to updose by 1mg to relieve some symptoms. I had a great month and thought I was good again and then this last week back into waves and windows again. 
I’m not an expert as you know but I personally think that was too much of a drop. This whole process is **** and can be so unfair. Your definitely not on your own in this . 

[ScottishLass]

Christ. I can’t do this. I wonder if I need to just go up to 20mg and stay there. I’m absolutely paralysed by this **** again. I wish I’d never come off Duloxetine because this is too ******* much. I ******* hate that drug with all my heart, I hate all these drugs, I ******* hate psychiatry. I think I’m in a wave but Idknw. Is this healing? Wtf. How do you know. Is this Duloxetine WD still there underneath or Prozac reduction WD. Now I know this is what it’s going to be like. On and on.  I’m shocked all over again. Feel sick.   I’m really ******* furious all over again. ******* terrified. I can’t live this up and down, not knowing. Return of fear, agitation, despair. Suicidal thoughts. Out of nowhere.  Today I can’t do this. I’m not right.   If I am back to before or worse. I can’t. Cruel, evil **** this is. ****. I am too tired of this. SO ******* TIRED

[Altostrata]

On 10/4/2021 at 6:47 AM, ScottishLass said:

I am still reducing the Prozac very slowly and am now on 4 mls(16mg) which I intend to stay on for another few weeks and then drop 1 mg again.

 

If you felt better on 18mg Prozac, why did you start messing with the dosage after only 6 weeks?

 

These impetuous decisions are creating your problems.

[ScottishLass]

Because I thought the name of the game was reduction. I thought 6 weeks was a good enough time to wait. I didn’t see it as impetuous. I’m trying to get off a drug. It’s not messing. It’s trying to get my life back. A lot of info on here seemed to suggest the lower dose reductions were more difficult. I thought only being on the Prozac for a short time would be better.  I thought I could manage the reduction. I would not have made a change if I thought this was the outcome. Yes I’m making my own problems. 

[ScottishLass]

I’m just expressing my current feelings. My experience. I’m not tagging anyone.  Its  not to be judged. I’m Getting it out before it eats me. Sorry. Mistake.

[Altostrata]

Here's some friendly feedback: You stand out among our members as someone who doesn't want to cooperate with staff.

 

While I admire your independence, you often make poor decisions about your drug situation.

 

You can continue to do this if you want. Frankly, you may create problems for yourself from which we cannot dig you out, and it would be considerate of you not to present them to the staff.

 

Do you want staff assistance or not? If not, I'm going to have to ask you stop posting panicky posts here simply to vent. It upsets the members and frustrates the staff.

[rubywednesday]

@ScottishLass

 

Sorry to hear you're having such a hard time with it all again!  It must be so scary and disheartening.  I hope someone can come along soon and give you some advice regarding updosing.  

[ScottishLass]

I’m gone. Don’t worry. I

[ScottishLass]

I have taken all of the advice. I am not sure what it is I’m not cooperating with. Thanks 

ill keep my thoughts away. No problem

[rubywednesday]

@ScottishLass Please don't go

[ScottishLass]

All good

[JesusSavemefromWD]

13 minutes ago, ScottishLass said:

Because I thought the name of the game was reduction. I thought 6 weeks was a good enough time to wait. I didn’t see it as impetuous. I’m trying to get off a drug. It’s not messing. It’s trying to get my life back. A lot of info on here seemed to suggest the lower dose reductions were more difficult. I thought only being on the Prozac for a short time would be better.  I thought I could manage the reduction. I would not have made a change if I thought this was the outcome. Yes I’m making my own problems. 

You were misled by your doctor. I think I remember u mentioned that ur doctor said u can take Prozac for a short while to get u out of the cymbalta WD, and start tapering as soon as u feel better. As u know most psychiatrists are clueless (Gis forgive me for saying this but I HATE THEM). If I were u I would go back to 18 mg (or 17mg) which was the dose u felt the best and stay there for at least six months or longer if still experiencing symptoms. I understand ur trying to avoid Prozac dependency by not staying on this drug for long time but this is wrong thinking ( I did the same mistake with Zoloft) because the problem is still the damage from cymbalta WD. Reducing Prozac by 4 mg it’s a lot! I lost my mind when I dropped from 4 mg Zoloft to zero, and I am still extremely sick almost a year out (regretting every single day for not reinstating early in this heel). You took a brave and risky decision to bridge to Prozac and seemed to be working ….. I am thinking and praying for u….. you will make it though agsin as long as u stick to ur dose and forget about tapering for now.

[Onmyway]

1 hour ago, ScottishLass said:

Christ. I can’t do this. I wonder if I need to just go up to 20mg and stay there. I’m absolutely paralysed by this **** again. I wish I’d never come off Duloxetine because this is too ******* much. I ******* hate that drug with all my heart, I hate all these drugs, I ******* hate psychiatry. I think I’m in a wave but Idknw. Is this healing? Wtf. How do you know. Is this Duloxetine WD still there underneath or Prozac reduction WD. Now I know this is what it’s going to be like. On and on.  I’m shocked all over again. Feel sick.   I’m really ******* furious all over again. ******* terrified. I can’t live this up and down, not knowing. Return of fear, agitation, despair. Suicidal thoughts. Out of nowhere.  Today I can’t do this. I’m not right.   If I am back to before or worse. I can’t. Cruel, evil **** this is. ****. I am too tired of this. SO ******* TIRED

I am so sorry you are suffering this badly @ScottishLass. It is really awful, isn't it? 

You said earlier you are not sure what is happening and we really don't know what is causing what but my hypothesis is that it is the delayed Prozac reduction effects on top of the Prozac bridge and on top of the windows and waves and on top of potentially other things (for me PMS has been awful in withdrawal, for example), seasons are changing. 

 

But fear not, this WILL get better. For now, try to not panic about the symptoms. Acceptance is half the game. At the beginning of withdrawal I didn't sleep for more than 3-5 hrs/night for over 4 months with relentless nausea and anxiety. I would mix my words during presentations at work and barely made it through work days. And it got better. Not freaking out about symptoms for me was half the battle. So when RLS happens note it, understand that it is from withdrawal and that it will go away and try to distract as much as you can. For the emotional symptoms you can try to distance yourself from the various parts - oh, the anxious part is coming up again. Yes, they are neuro-emotions but we still have tools to work with them. 

 

You are still in the beginning of this process, so you are learning. You made a mistake by cutting too fast because you didn't realize that Prozac's effects were delayed and you didn't quite grasp the concept of Windows and Waves. I still struggle with it myself - I'm certain that every one of the windows and waves is it or means that WD will never go away or a Window means I have been healed. It takes time. You will get there. Be gentle with yourself. 

 

At this point, I think you should hold without tapering for a few months. I'd say 2-3 or more if possible. This will give you reassurance that things are not permanent and you will give your nervous system a chance to settle. You should map your symptoms (I do it in Excel) and discover your own cycles of settling after tapering. 

 

Then, if you have been feeling stable for at least a month, you can try a small cut. A 1mg cut seems reasonable as a test. And wait it out for 6 weeks. And then we can go from there. 

 

In the meantime, for management of symptoms I like CBT techniques a lot - have you ever done CBT? Anxiety Self Help | Get.gg - Getselfhelp.co.uk

 

Hope things get better soon. 

I'm here if you need advice or support, 

OMW

[ScottishLass]

Thank you so much

[Cheeky]

Im so sorry your struggling like this. This process is the worst thing you have to ever endure. I have stuffed up so many times through this and I will probably stuff up again. I won’t off this **** just as much as you do and won’t my life back again. We need each other through this and I don’t won’t you to go. I’m here for you , if you ever need help.

Hang in there and ride the waves. 
(((((hugs)))))

Cheeky

[rubywednesday]

Thank you OMW, your post helped me too.

 

@ScottishLass how are you today?  I really hope you keep posting and you get a window from these dreadful withdrawals.  Like OMW says it will get better but it'll take time.  Feel free to PM me any time.

 

Hugs 

 

Ruby xx

[rubywednesday]

@ScottishLass Just wondering how you're doing today, hope you're managing to surf the wave.  I don't know how you manage to go to work with all this going on, I struggle with a fraction of your symptoms and I'm not even working.  Have you updosed?  Least you have a lot of good people in your corner.  Hugs xx

 

Ruby x

[HiddenGems]

On 10/6/2021 at 7:01 PM, Altostrata said:

 

It takes about 2 weeks for a reduction in Prozac dosage to fully take effect.

Ty for that information. I’m going to have to try and start removing Prozac so that was a wonder.

[Rosetta]

Hi Scottish Lass, 

I’m sorry to see that you have the akathisia type symptoms coming back.  Yes, at times, a nice window makes us think we are healed and there will be no more setbacks.  It’s extremely difficult to go through that over and over, but it’s the nature of healing from PWS.  No, we never get used to it.  Eventually, the waves will feel manageable.

I agree that you should hold on the Prozac for several months - maybe more than 5 months.  Every change you make is going to rattle your nervous system.  Once it’s been rattled the way that WD rattles it, it is very fragile, and what once would not have cause you to bat an eye will be an all out mess.  So, taking the same dose every day at the same time of day for months is what you need.  
The good news is that the Prozac helped you!  You are very lucky.  Not everyone has that result.  I have so much hope for you because of that.  It’s truly wonderful.

Take care, Rosetta

[HealthHopeHappiness]

Hi @ScottishLass I just wondered how you are? 💕