ScottishLass: hello and some help please

[ScottishLass]

6th Aug: 

Difficult night last night

(5th Aug) 11.30pm RLS and agitation ++

Headache ++

insomnia - slept couple hrs early morning

- stiff and muscles sore and lower leg pain

6th -

Headache++ 

Stiff and sore muscles on waking. Some anx. Foggy

mood not great

10.30 am - Prozac reduction @ 17mg (dissolved in water). 

- stiff muscles leg pain throughout day. 

- no appetite

- Diarrhea and nausea. 

 

Tired of this ****.

SL

 

 

 

[Rosetta]

It’s good that you are posting notes.  That’s very important right now.  Hold on.  I know this is really hard, but you are doing a good job. -Rosetta

[Altostrata]

It probably will take a couple of weeks before you feel the full effect of a reduction in Prozac.

 

On 8/3/2021 at 2:43 PM, Altostrata said:

You might go down to 17.5mg Prozac for a few days, then 15mg, stay there and see if that's better. 

 

It will take about 3 weeks for the reduction to take full effect. Please let us know how your symptom pattern changes over that time. 

 

[ScottishLass]

@Rosetta thank you for your wee message of support. It’s appreciated.  Been difficult the last few days. Your messages really help. 

 

Well I struggled last night 6th into 7th August.

- RLS

- Agitation - mind/body ++

-insomnia - still awake at 4am again. 

Was losing the plot and got really tempted to take Diazepam to maybe help with agitation, muscles, lack of sleep but didn’t give in. I’m glad. 

Bizarrely I managed nearly 4 hrs sleep after that. 

7th August (Morning)

8am - Woke  (no headache this morning) been awful last few days.

Muscles slightly stiff and sore. Some morning anxiety. Racing heart. 

10.30am - Took what I thought was 17mg Prozac diluted in water(but messed up) and I think it was 16mg by accident.

 

- some stiffness today but no cramps!! And decreased pain in lower limbs.  

- no major restlessness and agitation throughout day either. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

-  still Diarrhea and some nausea

- appetite reduced. 

 

Today feels much better side effect wise. No cramps🤞. Some stiffness and sore muscles but less and manageable.

Bad headache which had been there for days has gone.

Less agitation. No major RLS in the day today either. 🙏🏻

 

@Altostrata Could this be due to prozac reduction already? Or is it just placebo, a window that would have happened anyway or drugs that were stabilising?

 

I’m praying tonight is easier after less side effects today. 

11.20pm now- I can feel RLS activating but it’s manageable at the moment. 

 

* Oh forgot to add have had allergic type reaction on mostly on front of neck, and a bit on chest and face.  On and off for last few days.  Like hives, raised areas and very itchy. Went away.....came back.  My skin feels like it’s reacting to something most of the time.  I’m sure I read somewhere about Prozac stimulating something that can cause this?

Lips been a little tingly but nothing since happened for me to be too concerned. 

Anyway, I’m still alive and breathing for now.  

SL

 

[Altostrata]

6 minutes ago, ScottishLass said:

Could this be due to prozac reduction already?

 

It is possible.

 

It is also possible you are having an allergic reaction to Prozac, and this will be relieved if you reduce the dosage.

 

What time of day is the itching worse? Please track your symptoms in the daily notes format we have requested, 24 hours at a time.

[ScottishLass]

@Altostrata

1 minute ago, Altostrata said:

 

It is possible.

 

It is also possible you are having an allergic reaction to Prozac, and this will be relieved if you reduce the dosage.

 

What time of day is the itching worse? Please track your symptoms in the daily notes format we have requested, 24 hours at a time.

Most Intense Itching has been nighttime 11ish. Then welts, hives are quite noticeable. The skin feels reactive and allergic in the day too but no major visible signs then though the odd raised area.  So yes, worse 11pm ish. By morning things seem to have settled a little but skin is red and dry where welts were. 

[Altostrata]

I'm serious about this.

19 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Please track your symptoms in the daily notes format we have requested, 24 hours at a time.

 

Include when the itching peaks and when it's less.

[Rosetta]

(((Scottish Lass)))

 

Thinking of you.  I hope you don’t have the itching tonight.

[ScottishLass]

@Rosetta thank you for the ((())) 
I saw the Psych today. She agreed to liquid Fluoxetine.  She seemed to think the muscle spasms, soreness was not a recognised effect, “no-one else has ever mentioned that” 🤯 (interesting that they have reduced since Prozac reduction??🤷‍♀️  She also commented that  I would never get addicted to Prozac and again I could cut down quickly due to the long half life. 🤯. When I brought up the absolute horror of WD from Duloxetine over the past 6 months, she for the first time ever commented well, “yes Duloxetine can have some more difficult WD symptoms”.

 

 I am absolutely astounded and just do not understand how intelligent, educated people who want to ‘help’ people are so blinkered and ignore any research, anecdotal information and people’s true experience,  I JUST DON’T GET IT!  

Anyway I am going to reduce the Prozac by  1 mg a month.  She was still stating I can do it quicker than that and I’m not likely at all to get any WD symptoms!?!? but happy to support me doing a longer taper and will, as I said prescribe liquid Prozac. At least that’s a plus.  
 

I pray things stabilise and start to improve. I’m desperate for that,

 

@Altostrata can I ask does 1 mg reduction of Fluoxetine every month seem reasonable as a taper. 
with thanks

SL

[Rosetta]

Before you take fluoxetine liquid, check to see if the dose is correct.  Liquid meds can be much stronger than meds in pill form.  You could accidentally take way too much.

[Rosetta]

See this: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/759-tips-for-tapering-off-prozac-fluoxetine/

 

 

Each milliliter of liquid Prozac is equal to 4 milligrams of the drug.  If you are taking 17 mg in pill form, there will be some math to do.
 

You also need to cross-over carefully from pill form to liquid.

 

 

[ScottishLass]

@Rosetta 🙏🏻 Yes, the psych said so we calculated the doses. Thank you 🙏🏻 

[ScottishLass]

@Rosetta @Altostrata

WillDuloxetine withdrawal still be going on underneath Prozac?? If I stop the Prozac, begin to reduce will it likely reveal previous issues I had with Duloxetine WD?? I have to go back to work and can’t be off again.  Is it risky reducing the Prozac. I’m worried about rhat

[Rosetta]

I’m not sure that you have a choice, SL.  You seem to be having a very troubling reaction to the Prozac.  If you allow these muscle contractions to continue without trying to reduce Prozac, you may end up with tardive dyskinesia or dystonia.  It’s possible your basal ganglia is being affected.  That is very serious.  Please keep posting your notes with particular attention to your physical symptoms and the timing in relation to your dose.
 

. . . And hopefully, the pharmacist will know you need a special bottle cap or the cap comes with the Prozac bottle.  That info is in the link I gave you above.  
 

Go to this thread https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/235-using-an-oral-syringe-and-other-tapering-techniques/?tab=comments#comment-2284 and see Alto’s post on June 15, 2012 about drawing the medicine out of the bottle.

 

 

 

[ScottishLass]

10 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

I’m not sure that you have a choice, SL.  You seem to be having a very troubling reaction to the Prozac.  If you allow these muscle contractions to continue without trying to reduce Prozac, you may end up with tardive dyskinesia or dystonia.  It’s possible your basal ganglia is being affected.  That is very serious.  Please keep posting your notes with particular attention to your physical symptoms and the timing in relation to your dose.
 

. . . And hopefully, the pharmacist will know you need a special bottle cap or the cap comes with the Prozac bottle.  That info is in the link I gave you above.  
 

Go to this thread https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/235-using-an-oral-syringe-and-other-tapering-techniques/?tab=comments#comment-2284 and see Alto’s post on June 15, 2012 about drawing the medicine out of the bottle.

 

 

 

@Rosetta

Since reducing to 17mg the spasms have decreased.  Maybe I should go to 15 and stay there.  I can’t have WD again.  I can’t be ill either.  Ffs.  These pills 🤯 

[Rosetta]

Just play it by ear.  You don’t have to decide now how much you will reduce right now.  You can decide after each stabilization and based on whether you have cramps and tremors.

[Altostrata]

Yes, you can reduce by 1mg fluoxetine per month until you get to a dosage of 9mg. Then you will have to reduce by 0.9mg or less per month. We will discuss when you get to 10mg. You may want to stay there for a while.

 

If you get withdrawal symptoms, please do NOT continue tapering.

 

Good to hear the muscle pain lessened when you reduced the dosage.

 

The point of reinstatement or substitution of Prozac is to reduce the withdrawal symptoms from Cymbalta and to eventually enable tapering off Prozac.

 

Please let us know how you are doing.

[ScottishLass]

22 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

If you get withdrawal symptoms, please do NOT continue tapering.

@Altostrata as in stay on the Prozac at the level I didn’t have WD symptoms? If that happens.

Thank you very much for all the help. This site is a life saver. 

SL

[Altostrata]

I have lost the thread here, 9 pages in. Back in July, we told you that 20mg fluoxetine might be too much for you. We extensively discussed reducing it.

 

Do you remember this?

 

On 8/3/2021 at 2:43 PM, Altostrata said:

....

You might go down to 17.5mg Prozac for a few days, then 15mg, stay there and see if that's better. 

 

It will take about 3 weeks for the reduction to take full effect. Please let us know how your symptom pattern changes over that time. 

.....

 

Now you've been taking 20mg fluoxetine for several weeks. It is possible that this is too much for you AND as you reduce it, you might get withdrawal symptoms from the reduction -- but it's also possible you won't feel the reductions at all. You seem to have done well with the reduction to 17mg.

 

It's up to you to reduce fluoxetine according to a schedule that does not trigger additional withdrawal symptoms. You've gotten lots of pointers. Please review this topic from the beginning.

 

If you want guidance about tapering, I still need those daily notes I've requested multiple times.

[ScottishLass]

Yes, I was merely clarifying that when you responded with “do  NOT carry on the taper if WD symptoms” you meant stay at that dose, don't reduce anymore rather than stop Prozac.  That’s all.  But I re-read and you mean hold at that dose. Sorry for irritating you. I understand. Thank you 

[ScottishLass]

I went to my work today for a ‘phased return’.  I went in after an hours sleep (unfortunately due to the insomnia and RLS and agitation).

I thought I would be ok, things have felt so much better over the last couple of weeks despite the muscle spasms, gi stuff, sleep etc.  I thought I could do it.

I was fine there until some stress and then I broke down. Panicked. Hid. Finally left. No one saw, thankfully, but I am so disappointed. So worried.  So done.

On the drugs, off the drugs, reducing the drugs.  I can’t do stuff. I just want to be able to live, Ive done nothing wrong, I’ve worked hard, been kind. These ******* drugs. I know people are having a more difficult time, I know I should be thankful, but so much has been taken away already, so much is so difficult before I’ve even begun, so much is in jeopardy, on the edge.  It’s too much isn’t it.  I keep trying so hard. Do what’s right, take drugs, don’t take the drugs, try and taper with advice.  Try and use other coping, lifestyle strategies. Everything. I don’t know what else I’m supposed to do. I just don’t know. 

[rubywednesday]

I'm so sorry to hear it didn't work out for you today SL.  Has your boss been in touch?  I don't know what you've told them up to now but maybe you should be honest with them and tell them how you've been struggling.  Big hugs and I hope you have a better day tomorrow. 

 

Ruby xx

[Altostrata]

Give yourself some latitude to have little breakdowns. If no one saw you, it's only yourself doing the judging.

 

What do you mean by 

41 minutes ago, ScottishLass said:

I went in after an hours sleep (unfortunately due to the insomnia and RLS and agitation).

 

Are you doing better or worse since reducing to 17mg?

[ScottishLass]

@rubywednesday thank you for your message. 🙏🏻 It’s appreciated and I’m really glad youre doing so well with your taper. 

@Rosetta thank you 🙏🏻  as usual. 😊

 

@Altostrata

On 8/12/2021 at 10:59 PM, Altostrata said:

Are you doing better or worse since reducing to 17mg?

To your question. I’m actually now not sure there has been a huge improvement regarding RLS, agitation at night or sore, stiff muscles.  RLS reappeared, spasms occur but less and stiffness bad today. Sleep is very bad. Between 1 and 3 hours. But that may be worse due to work return stress in the mix.  Mood better than in height of Duloxetine WD by a mile but feels very fragile, off. Swinging a bit, irritable then happy, excited, Black then urgent, uncomfortable. I need to consider stuff. Psych saying I may have had a mixed episode alongside WD or just an episode.  I highly disagree with the latter.  That’s for me to work out not you here I know. 

I am aware this answer  is not in the “time and symptoms” scribe. I will do that I’m just answering your question. 

I’ve got liquid fluoxetine now and am taking 4.5 ml for next month. Unless things go awry. I will list my symptoms and times etc. and document what’s happening in your preferred format. Trying to keep at stuff. Don’t knw 

thanks. 

🙏🏻 SL

 

 

[ScottishLass]

It can only take a day 

[Altostrata]

On 8/11/2021 at 3:39 PM, Altostrata said:

If you want guidance about tapering, I still need those daily notes I've requested multiple times.

 

[ScottishLass]

6 hours ago, ScottishLass said:

re this answer  is not in the “time and symptoms” scribe. I will do that I’m just answering your question. 

I’ve got liquid fluoxetine now and am taking 4.5 ml for next month. Unless things go awry. I will list my symptoms and times etc. and document what’s happening in your preferred format.

I knw.  As I said. I will 

[Cheeky]

Scottish lad, 

Im so sorry your struggling, this is really cruel and the  worst thing a human has to endure. You should be proud of yourself even making it to work, it’s so hard to work and try to pretend everything is alright when deep down your  in turmoil. You are much stronger than you think and I wish you get a long window. 

[ScottishLass]

@Rosetta @Altostrata any mods. Please.

 

I’ve continued with 4.5 ml 17 mg fluoxetine reduction for last 5days.  For the last  four days I chose to  take zopiclone as I was only getting 1to 2 hrs sleep and have to go to work.

 I have been managing to get to work onnreduced hours but have noticed a worrying change over last few days.

 

Every afternoon around 3pm ish I have had a return of very, very uneasy, agitated feeling in my legs and body, like an electrical buzzing this is accompanied with waves of panic and out of control feelings and impending dread.  I have to go up to bed and be alone and try and rationalise in quiet.  

 

Is the increase dis/ease at 3pm on the clock likely due to the zopiclone? Or the ongoing reduction in fluoxetine?  I’m worried the last 2 afternoon/evening difficulties are reminding me of the horror when initially stopping Duloxetine.  

 

Im trying to work out if I need to stop 7.5mg zopiclone to help ease this and just try and deal with the no sleep; (I’m only getting 4hrs with pill anyway). Or is it because of Fluox reduction and Doxetine WD breaking through.  

 

This change/return of irritability, fear and agitation at 3pm onwards is making me scared things are going to go backwards.? 

 

Its also a little muddied by the AB I’ve been taking for 3 months. Lymecycline...is that impacting?

 

I know I havent done the notes format you asked yet. I’m sorry I’ve been trying to get and stay at work.  

The major change in symptoms is as above at 3pm onwards which is v uncomfortable and building....and feels like a flashback to Dulox WD. 

 

Now im starting to worry. 

Please help. 

SL

 

 

 

[ScottishLass]

On 8/15/2021 at 12:59 PM, Cheeky said:

Scottish lad, 

Im so sorry your struggling, this is really cruel and the  worst thing a human has to endure. You should be proud of yourself even making it to work, it’s so hard to work and try to pretend everything is alright when deep down your  in turmoil. You are much stronger than you think and I wish you get a long window. 

Thankyou @Cheeky you are really kind.🙏🏻 Scottish Lass

[rubywednesday]

@ScottishLassI'm so sorry to hear you're still struggling and wish there was more I could do to ease your suffering.  I hope a mod can answer your questions and you can get some relief, hugs xx

 

Ruby

[Altostrata]

Please do not tag me again until you post the daily notes, as I've requested many times.

 

Please put ALL your drugs, including the antibiotic (which you've never mentioned before) in this Interactions Checker and post the report or a link to it in this topic.

 

No answers to your questions without the notes.

[ScottishLass]

I have mentioned the AB several times and it has been in my signature from the beginning. I have not done daily  notes as I’ve been trying desperately to go to work and I can’t do both at the moment unfortunately.  I haven't listed in daily notes as until the last 2 days there had been no significant change. Not that you don’t already know.  I’ve struggled with the change I commented on above for 2 days  and thought it seemed reasonable to ask without documenting hours of no other new things before I’m allowed to raise a question.  Which seems ok to ask on others threads. 

 

No bother I won’t tag you again.  It’s too stressful receiving a response. 

I’m sorry my post/question is so offensive to you. 

I appreciate massively what I have recieved so far and I thank you for that.  I do not understand some of the cruel responses to people.  

 

I’m desperately struggling to go to work, keep going, stay alive. I already feel like I’m a nothing, useless piece of ****. Literally. Dont worry. I understand. I’ll sort it out. Sorry for wasting your time. Just ******* sorry. I shan’t burden you again.

 

Thanks for those that showed me kindness Rosetta, RW, JSM,  Kris73, hayduke, cheeky...sorry abt any I missed.  Really sorry. 

I’m done ruining everything. 

 

Take care, I wish you all peace and wellness. I wish this site didn’t need to exist with all my heart. These drugs have taken so much. Too much. 

SL

 

 

[Rosetta]

((ScottishLass)). It could be either.  I know it’s really, really hard to do the notes, but there is no other way to sort this out.  Can anyone help you?  Do you have anyone who could type them in for you?

 

How much Zopiclone do you take?  If you fall asleep, it could be too much.  That sounds ridiculous, but once you are asleep you don’t know if you took too much.

 

Please don’t give up.  Alto isn’t giving up on you.  She could make things worse if she gives suggestions without notes.  It may seem that nothing has changed and notes would make no difference, but a change isn’t the only factor.  There are patterns not everyone can see, but they show up in the notes.  The timing, the particular symptoms, and other things I don’t understand.  When someone can’t post notes, that’s a serious sign that the person is fragile.  
 

Zopiclone might be an issue.  How much you take, how you feel afterward at different points  — there’s a timeline I don’t know on that, but Alto does, and the timeline is different for each drug.  The timelines of the drugs overlap.  It’s a mess, and only notes can help sort it out.  So, it seems cruel, but it’s a “do no harm” issue.  Dies that make sense?

 

Don't give up on SA.  Don’t give up on yourself.  The neuro-emotions intersect with the refusal to give advice and it feels terrible to the person who can’t get “help,” but that help could be harm without notes.  I hope that is helpful.

 

We care about you.  -Rosetta

[Altostrata]

I find it offensive when members think so little of the time I put into answering their questions that they cannot provide me with information I need to give them informed answers. And this is 10 pages in!

[ScottishLass]

On 8/19/2021 at 3:19 AM, ScottishLass said:

I appreciate massively what I have recieved so far and I thank you for that.

I apologise for my reaction and 

 

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

I find it offensive when members think so little of the time I put into answering their questions that they cannot provide me with information I need to give them informed answers. And this is 10 pages in!

@Altostrata

I absolutely appreciate the time and effort. I sincerely apologise for my unrestrained reaction.

SL