Tania: 45mg mirtazapine tapering

[Faure]

Hi Tania, sorry to hear you caught Covid. When tapering it is very easy to blame how we are feeling on WD but we all experience ups and downs whether we are tapering, on ADs or off them! Some days you will awful, others ‘blah’ and sometimes if you’re lucky, actually good! Then there is our monthly cycle upsetting things as well. I’m noticing that a lot more lately. So I’d hold steady and wait for things to settle down. Getting Covid does cause fatigue.  Take care and keep us posted. 

[Tania]

Hi, I'm still on 39mg and started experiencing really bad GERD, I get woken up at night and can't go back to sleep. I'm wondering whether it's a side effect of Mirtarzapine? Also,  I read online that melatonin can help with GERD, do you know if by taking it now, I will reduce my chances for it to work when I'm on a lower dose of the Mirtarzapine? Thank you....

[getofflex]

I don’t know.  I would research it with google.

[Tania]

Hi, I started my taper in December 2021, from 45mg I'm now on 39mg...I got GERD recently, so have been feeling pretty uncomfortable mentally and physically, with low mood/slight anxiety at times. My last drop was on 18 Feb, I don't know whether to drop further now or whether to wait? I'm really keen to come off this thing but also afraid....

[Faure]

Have you thought about switching to the BrassMonkey slide? It’s a much more gentle way of tapering. My general approach is noticing if I feel ready to drop, I nearly always I do. I’ve done occasional longer holds. But the main thing is I am barely getting any WD symptoms….and it’s not as scary as doing 10% in one go, I think I’d really feel that in a bad way!

[Tania]

Hi Faure, thank you for your input. Do you do a drop of 2.5% or less? Also, on 5th week have you held for longer than 2 weeks? Can I do the BrassMonkey method but do a 4-week hold for example? 

[getofflex]

10 hours ago, Tania said:

My last drop was on 18 Feb, I don't know whether to drop further now or whether to wait?

If it were me, I would wait until I felt good and stable.   These links explain what we mean by this: 

 

Stability

 

WD Normal

[getofflex]

Here is info about the Brassmonkey Slide tapering method: 

 

Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro Tapering

[Faure]

On 4/4/2022 at 3:46 PM, Tania said:

Hi Faure, thank you for your input. Do you do a drop of 2.5% or less? Also, on 5th week have you held for longer than 2 weeks? Can I do the BrassMonkey method but do a 4-week hold for example? 

Hello, I do 2.5% a week because I can easily handle it. You could do less if that felt better for you. I have held for up to 5 weeks I think when I hit a bit of a rocky patch with work. I knew when I was ready to start again. So yes, you can hold for longer if you need to. I have been strongly encouraged by my closest friend to stick to the schedule and even during slightly rocky times that has proven to work for me and I have been glad I’ve stuck to the schedule. Of course it’s different for everyone. 
 

Generally weeks 1,2 and 6 are the easiest weeks and I feel the effects of the reductions most in the other weeks ☺️The lower I go the easier it all becomes anyway.

[Tania]

Thanks Faure, I have now started the brassmonkey method too and the drops seem less daunting...thank you. I'm on 36mg! I'm trying not to focus too much on symptoms otherwise my anxiety goes through the roof! 

[Faure]

Great, glad you’re happier with the drops now. Already 9mg down - well done!  I’m on just under half my starting dose and feeling so much like myself. I can do so much more, including starting gentle exercise. Hopefully you’ll notice improvements too ☺️

[Tania]

I've reduced to 36mg almost 2 weeks ago and I feel so sad, disconnected and tearful...sometimes I wonder if the whole 'not having enough serotonin in your brain' theory is true 🙁 is there anybody here that has reduced from 45mg? If yes  what's your experience? 

[ChessieCat]

If you are of menstruating age, it might be related to your monthly cycle.

[Tania]

Hi, thank you, I'm 44 and my period is due in 11 days, and I think I'm gradually approaching the perimenopause. Not sure if it's my hormones...

[Faure]

2 hours ago, Tania said:

I feel so sad, disconnected and tearful..

Sorry you’re feeling down. This could be connected to your hormones, I am becoming much more affected by them (I’m a year older than you).  Also it could a be a withdrawal effect.  My most common wd effect is feeling scared, I often get that the day after a dose drop. Fortunately it never lasts long and I am able to remember that when I’m feeling scared for no reason! 
 

Of course you may have reason to feel this way if you’re unhappy with your life…in which case psychotherapy might help you. When I finally found the right therapist I was able to make huge changes in my life so that I felt so much better. 
 

If you want to understand the drugs you’re taking and the effect they have (and the fact that serotonin deficiency hasn’t been proven at all and is a myth) then you might want to read:

 

A Straight Talking Introduction To Psychiatric Drugs by Professor Joanna Moncrieff

 

Synopsis:

 

“In an era when more people are taking psychiatric drugs than ever before, Joanna Moncrieff’s explosive book challenges the claims for their mythical powers. Drawing on extensive research, she demonstrates that psychiatric drugs do not ‘treat’ or ‘cure’ mental illness by acting on hypothesised chemical imbalances or other abnormalities in the brain. There is no evidence for any of these ideas. Moreover, any relief the drugs may offer from the distress and disturbance of a mental disorder can come at great cost to people’s physical health and their ability to function in day-to-day life. And, once on these drugs, coming off them can be very difficult indeed. This book is a wake-up call to the potential damage we are doing to ourselves by relying on chemical cures for human distress. Its clear, concise explanations will enable people to make a fully informed decision about the benefits and harms of these drugs and whether and how to come off them if they so choose.

From the author - 

The new edition has been completely re-written. It incorporates new knowledge about how psychiatric drugs modify normal brain structure and functioning, often leading to harmful consequences that can be long-lasting. It presents the latest evidence on the pros + cons of using psychiatric drugs in different situations, + current thinking about the adverse effects of drug withdrawal. It provides guidance on how to minimise withdrawal effects in order to come off psychiatric drugs successfully.”

 

It came out at the same time as Sedated, I read that instead. But I think the Moncrieff is more relevant to most of us. 

I hope you feel better soon and can enjoy this lovely weather with your daughter ☺️☀️

 

 

[Tania]

Thank you Faure! I'm coming back from work and connecting with my colleagues and to my work has made a real difference. I'll get that book...as I wanna know more, so that I too can demystify that whe argument...thank you x 

[getofflex]

On 5/6/2022 at 4:25 AM, Tania said:

.sometimes I wonder if the whole 'not having enough serotonin in your brain' theory is true 🙁

If you are talking about the idea of some of us needing psych meds because of a chemical imbalance in our brains, I believe this is false.  Read this link: 

 

Chemical Imbalance is a Myth

 

In fact, these drugs give a temporary boost, but worsen depression in the long run: 

 

Robert Whitaker, author Anatomy of an Epidemic video

[Warrior]

Hi, @Tania! Glad you're reducing mirtazapine! I used this drug for a short time in relation to you. Unfortunately, when I stopped, I wasn't aware of SA yet, so I had a very quick withdrawal, I suffered a lot, and I still have very bad symptoms. But know that it gets better little by little, it's very gradual. Feeling emotionally shaken during withdrawal is very normal, several times I thought I was going to die and felt my body wasting away, literally. But it got better. Keep doing the slow withdrawal, it's much better as you won't suffer as much from the symptoms and they won't attack you as hard as they did to me. I hope you get off these drugs more and more and feel better!

[Tania]

Hiya All! I have been on 36mg since April, but I've had covid for the 2nd time and have been feeling really anxious/depressed while trying to recover from the virus + the heatwave killed me psychologically. What would you recommend...wait another month or start sooner? I just don't want to be in a situation where I've to up my dose again. This is so bloody hard.

[ChessieCat]

10 hours ago, Tania said:

What would you recommend...wait another month or start sooner?

 

Q:  Are you asking when you could make another reduction?

 

If it was me, I think it might be a good idea to wait at least 3 months and then reassess then.  Your body has been under a lot of stress from both covid and the heat and I think it would be better to hold for quite a while and allow your nervous system to recover and also to help you recover mentally.  The aim is to get off the drug with minimal discomfort so that you can live your life as normally as possible.  Some members have tried to go too fast and it has ended up taking them longer than if they had done a nice steady taper.

 

And when you do decide to reduce I suggest that you make a small reduction to see how your respond.  For example you could reduce to 35.5mg or 35mg.  But if it was me I would not be reducting more than 1mg for the next reduction and would probably opt for 35.5mg

 

 

[Tania]

Thank you ChessieCat....I totally agree with you. What you said strongly resonated with me. I'll wait it out x 

[Tania]

Hi, just a quick question...I think I've been a bit thoughtless...I felt OK before going on holiday and stupidly I've got pills with me @ 355mg instead of 360mg. I've been on 360mg for 3 months. I'm going to start with the new amount tonight. I've been on holiday 2 days and over the last 2 days I've been on 360mg. My anxiety was through the roof yesterday. I'm really scared I'll feel unstable and won't enjoy the rest of my holiday on 355mg...any feedback? I'm going back home on Sunday. Thank you. 

[brassmonkey]

It's only a 1.5% reduction. For very sensitive people it could be noticed but shouldn't be bad. The important thing is to not let your secondary fear get the upper hand. In other words, "don't worry about it", do all the fun things you had planned and enjoy your holiday.

[Tania]

Thanks Brassmonkey, I'll try...and not let my anxiety take over. Tx 

[Tania]

Hi, I've waited 2 weeks before going from 355mg to 350mg...I've been feeling fairly stable though the anxiety can feel overwhelming at times. Can I just ask, sometime it never seems like the right time to do a reduction but I don't want to be wondering this for years and years. I'm going REALLY slowly but am still afraid my mental health will suffer. How do you know? I mean, it's not like my anxiety was ever gone completely...

Also, I'm flying in October and am  terrified I'll have a panic attack on the plane (had a handful in the past), so I'm really wracking my brain as to the best course of action. Thing is, it's never the right time is it...

[Bestill]

I feel that sometimes too.  But I figure if I don’t feel worse but still feel what I have always been feeling since tapering, then I’m ok.  I feel your pain.  This month hasn’t been magical and I’m like do I hold or do I taper.  I always end up tapering.  I feel like it’s a constant riding it out kind of thing and you have no idea how you will feel.

 

From reading other peoples experiences, the longer they have been through the process and the lower they go.  Things slowly and I mean slow-ly get better.

 

You have all of my sympathy!  ❤️

[Tania]

Thank you...it can feel like such a long and arduous journey sometimes xx

[Faure]

Hi Tania, I’m sorry to hear you are feeling anxious. So much is riding on this and you have a child to take care of, the stakes are high and this doesn’t help your anxiety at all. 
 

I’m just wondering if you are doing / have done anything to try to address the anxiety? It was a big problem for me most of my adult life (about 25 years) and after years of trying to find out what the problem was I finally found a therapist who could help me. It was a lot of hard work but through therapy I was finally able to address the issues and life has been a lot better since (the anxiety is gone really, I still get anxious about some things but not to the same degree at all and I am much more able to cope with it).
 

The other thing I’ve found is meditation. At the start of the pandemic I was very close to overwhelm and did Jon Kabat Zin’s 40 minute body scan every single day. It really helped keep me just calm enough not to get overwhelmed. I saw the benefit of it and have done it mostly every day since March 2020.  It has had a fantastic effect in terms of keeping me steady, noticing how I’m feeling, being able to say “there I go again with such and such thoughts”, I was even able to identify that thoughts were a large part of the problem. The breathing also helps to calm me down when I do start to get anxious. 

 

If you are able to get help addressing the anxiety then things are likely to get a lot better for you. Most of us are on here because we have suffered trauma in the past which is what caused us to end up in ADs in the first place. There is also a 30 minute body scan if you haven’t time for the 40 minute one. 

[Santino]

Hi Tania

Are you still drycutting or you are mixing the tablets with water??

Dry cutting sometimes can be tough and less accurate than mixing of the mirt with the water. In my case mixing the mirt with water resulted the easiest way to perform my taper. That way gave the freedom i needed, because i could literally make the mixture for 2 minutes in the toilet even if i would go out for a dinner at a restaurant.
Anyway you are doing great. I know people who have gone from 96Mg to 0 very slowly and they are doing pretty normal now. You will succeed if you are patient. 

All the best

Santino

[Tania]

Thank you so much for your input Faure. I've been seeing a therapist for many years, and I've started to incorporate mindfulness again into my daily routine. I'm going to see a CBT therapist again just to hone in on the skills I've learnt over the years. Xx

[Faure]

I hope the mindfulness and CBT therapist help you. The daily body scan is one of the best things I ever did. Meditation was preparing me for WD for a full 18 months before starting my taper (and the rest of my life) without me realising it!!! I must admit WD is pretty smooth for me - I feel very fortunate about that indeed. Take care ☺️

[Tania]

I'm now on 34mg...I was on 45mg and it's taken me a year to get to where I am now. I just feel frustrated because this is going to be a really long journey,  and I feel I've to take it really slow cos I can't afford to have traumatic side effects. I'm angry because I've literally just had a few sips of red wine with some friends (I've cut out alcohol altogether), and my anxiety feels unbearable right now. And it's not like I want to drink all time, I'm not at all interested in that, but I'd like to be able to enjoy the occasional moment when I can. Besides, this drug has not gotten rid of my anxiety anyways!! So I'm angry right now. The amount of effort I'm putting into coming off this poison is gigantic and it's painful. 

 

 

[Faure]

Hi Tania, I’m sorry you’re feeling frustrated and angry and anxious and anything else. It is hugely frustrating for all of us who are tapering and we understand where you’re coming from. I am angry at times about it too, when I felt really angry I wrote letters (that I didn’t send) to the psychiatrist that prescribed this drug. It helped, briefly! You will (hopefully) find that as the drug load decreases, however slowly, you gradually start to feel better and better and that will hopefully make things easier for you. You may start to enjoy the journey of feeling better and feel less disheartened about how long it will take. The important thing is that you have started and you are continuing. That you have got a 10mg reduction is brilliant.  Keep plodding on and things will improve. You have a daughter and can’t take any risks - you are doing the absolute best you can ☺️ To be honest, even if you didn’t have a child you’d still want to take no risks, it’s not worth life falling apart for any of us. 
 

Regarding alcohol it is known that it (and any other mind altering substances) can cause issues in WD and is best avoided. Even a year after finishing a taper people can have alcohol provoke WD.  When I was off meds altogether I found alcohol caused anxiety so have avoided it for years. We all have to find new ways of living, our old ways caused us problems that caused us to be prescribed these drugs in the first place. 
 

How are you now? Has the anxiety subsided? 

[Tania]

On 11/26/2022 at 7:34 AM, Faure said:

Hi, so sorry I never got round to reply. My anxiety is generally better but I've to admit every time I do a reduction it feels like I'm going on a roller-coaster. Jeez...and between that and the perimenopause it isn't an easy feat. How are you? In fact how are all the people who are tapering this AD? I feel there aren't many people here that talk about their Rameron tapering...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HI Tania, I’m sorry you’re feeling frustrated and angry and anxious and anything else. It is hugely frustrating for all of us who are tapering and we understand where you’re coming from. I am angry at times about it too, when I felt really angry I wrote letters (that I didn’t send) to the psychiatrist that prescribed this drug. It helped, briefly! You will (hopefully) find that as the drug load decreases, however slowly, you gradually start to feel better and better and that will hopefully make things easier for you. You may start to enjoy the journey of feeling better and feel less disheartened about how long it will take. The important thing is that you have started and you are continuing. That you have got a 10mg reduction is brilliant.  Keep plodding on and things will improve. You have a daughter and can’t take any risks - you are doing the absolute best you can ☺️ To be honest, even if you didn’t have a child you’d still want to take no risks, it’s not worth life falling apart for any of us. 
 

Regarding alcohol it is known that it (and any other mind altering substances) can cause issues in WD and is best avoided. Even a year after finishing a taper people can have alcohol provoke WD.  When I was off meds altogether I found alcohol caused anxiety so have avoided it for years. We all have to find new ways of 

[Tania]

Week 2 of being on 31.8mg (from 45mg) and I feel so unstable...I normally stay on a new dose for about 3 months or more before I do a further taper. I just can't believe how such small dosage drops can cause such havoc, I've watched many videos on why this is but it does astound me every time. I'll keep on this dose until I feel stable again, and I pray I will soon. I've spent the day with my daughter today and I was swinging from being calm and collected to being super anxious and agitated. 

[Tania]

Hi all, I'm experiencing headaches daily. Does anyone have the same symptoms?