Bmp5452: Considering reinstatement of last med or different SSRI

[Bmp5452]

I've been having horrible symptoms since I came off of all meds 5 months ago , these symptoms are : 

 

• Emotional Blunting 
• Anhedonia 
• Restless sleep 
• DP/DR 
• Vision issues (possibly from DP/DR
• Classic PSSD symptoms (except for the genital numbness , its mostly just less sensitive) 

 

I've seen no improvements at all in any of these categories and I'm starting to become desperate and suicidal .

 

I also got long covid about 2 weeks after discontinuing the meds but was already feeling side effects before then . 

 

I've attempted a various slew of supplements for a couple months now but have seen no progress. I'm also trying TRT as my free testosterone was at the bottom of the range even though my total testosterone was above the range. I'm trying to get ahold of a Ketamine treatment clinic near me to see if that helps at all but its expensive and insurance most likely wont cover it . I have also taken a Sibo test along with a full stool panel to rule out Sibo and gut dysbiosis but the sibo test results have yet to come back and the stool sample test isn't something doctors will base treatment off of (Even though my stool sample indicates high levels of dysbiosis along with fungal growth). 

 

I want to give reinstatement a try before I let this go on any further I'm just torn on whether I should try Seroquel , Lamictal , or a different med Wellbutrin . 

 

What do you think ? 

[getofflex]

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a volunteer-run community of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  I'm very sorry to hear that you are having these severe symptoms.  You have come to the right place.  You are probably having withdrawal symptoms from coming off of 5 drugs at once.  Did you cold turkey or taper?  

 

On 6/6/2022 at 4:29 PM, Bmp5452 said:

I'm trying to get ahold of a Ketamine treatment clinic near me to see if that helps at all but its expensive and insurance most likely wont cover it .

If it were me, I would not do this.  I've seen others in here have bad experiences with this.  Since ketamine causes amnesia (it's a date rape drug), it can't do good things for your nervous system.  Putting more psychotropic drugs in our system is not the way to recover from a nervous system that is destabilized from going off of psychiatric meds.  Even if you felt good at first, you put yourself at significant risk of big problems down the road.  

 

Ketamine Treatments

 

And, here is what the founder of our site, Altostrata, has to say about using testosterone during recovery from withdrawal: 

 

Testosterone

 

Can you please give us specific information in your signature about your drug history for all drugs and supplements you are on and have been on, especially for the past 18-24 months?  It would be especially helpful to have the details of your drugs in a concise vertical list (no symptoms), only drug names, specific dates (as best you can say for example early March if you don't recall the day) and dosages of each medication decrease or increase.  Use this format:

 

Drug name: date, dose, date, dose, date, dose…

Drug name: date, dose, date, dose, date, dose…

Etcetera

 

Please read the link below for instructions.  This will allow us to give you the best guidance.  

 

How to List Drug History in Signature

 

Here is some important information about how these drugs actually work.  This explains why we get symptoms from going off of these medications, and why it's so important to taper slowly and carefully, and be very cautious about changing our doses: 

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

Here is a link with checklists of common WD symptoms: 

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen Withdrawal Symptom Checklists

 

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Stability is really important when we are tapering off psych meds.  Please read the link about stability:

 

Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

Finally, going back on a small dose of your drug, or increasing your dose, which we call reinstatement, is best done very carefully.  This is temporary, and after stabilizing you would then taper gradually off of this.  There is some risk involved, and we need more specifics about your drug history before we can suggest which drug and dose to reinstate.  Here is some information about reinstatement.  

 

About Reinstating and Stabilizing to Reduce Withdrawal Symptoms

 

I've given you quite a bit of information here.  Please read through it, and mull it over, and we will take it from there. In the meantime, take care of yourself, and take heart.  We in this forum have been through this, and we understand first hand the pain and discomfort you are going through.  Please know that the brain is amazing in it's healing abilities.  It takes time, but healing can and will happen. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by getofflex

[Roserdl]

You need time.   I reinstated and it was only partially successful and I was only three weeks in from last dose and while It improved full emotional blunting (inability to cry and numbness dp/dr but didn't really help the muted positive feeling I got from withdraw.  It moderately to substantially improved most physical symptoms. Sleep stabilized. It basically got me stable enough so I can resume my taper in July.   Maybe think about strategies to support nervous system healing instead of drugs.  Think of it this way. You have five months of healing in. 

[Bmp5452]

8 hours ago, Roserdl said:

You need time.   I reinstated and it was only partially successful and I was only three weeks in from last dose and while It improved full emotional blunting (inability to cry and numbness dp/dr but didn't really help the muted positive feeling I got from withdraw.  It moderately to substantially improved most physical symptoms. Sleep stabilized. It basically got me stable enough so I can resume my taper in July.   Maybe think about strategies to support nervous system healing instead of drugs.  Think of it this way. You have five months of healing in. 

Im trying a lot of things with no relief and I’m not settled in my life and don’t have years of time to recover from this . I could end up homeless or suicidal so I’m not sure what choice I have at this point . 

[Bmp5452]

The last three drugs I was on was Seroquel , Lamictal and Buspar. The Lamictal and Buspar I chose to discontinue 2 weeks before I stopped taking the Seroquel and didn't see any withdrawal effects until 2 weeks after stopping the Seroquel when I had COVID and took one pill of trazadone to sleep . As much as I understand the risk of reinstating , I don't feel like I can last much longer at this rate with the severity of my symptoms and the rate of healing ( Which so far after 5 months has been no improvement despite trying to correct my health in multiple ways ) and I do not want to let my window of opportunity to reinstate and taper over a much longer period of time to come to a close stranding me in this long healing process . 

[getofflex]

We need to see your drug signature before we can safely advise you.  See the instructions in my previous post. 

[Roserdl]

I understand.  I have been in that place with suicidality with extreme symptoms. This is TEMPORARY.  Remind yourself of that when feeling desperate.  Healing truly is the expected outcome.  It took me four months to accept what's going on and resolve myself to the journey.   Be careful of ketamine when you are unstable.  It is a very intense drug. I found cold showers extremely helpful both for managing emotional symptoms and reducing the brain burn.  They literally saved my life.   Wim hoff breathing.  I'm so sorry you are struggling so hard.  

[Bmp5452]

I have my drug history posted on my profile I don't know why it isn't showing here 

[Bmp5452]

I see why it wasn't posted and corrected it so the history should be visible. 

[getofflex]

Thank you.  I will confer with the other staff, and one of us will get back to you.  

[Bmp5452]

Thank you 

[Heath]

Hello @Bmp5452and welcome! I second what getofflex and roserdl has told you! I just want to give you some info from my experience and research. 
 

I chased drs and test for ssri side effects and withdrawals. A lot of people have. My testosterone was on the low side after taking Paxil for 12 years . According to blood test. Maybe nothing to do with it but because I was tired no energy all the time from Paxil I had it tested. I didn’t take treatment for it. I look back now and am glad I didn’t because that wasn’t the cause of my symptoms. If yours is just on the low side I would advise against it in your current status. Also later in my wd symptom chasing I took a saliva test which was expensive and testosterone checked well within range. I don’t think those tests are all they are cracked up to be. Just drs looking for something to blame symptoms on.
 

I had some Ed or sd whatever you want to call it during withdrawals. Didn’t last long. Mine was caused by anxiety caused by Paxil withdrawals. And guess what dr prescribed me. Yep treatment for ed. I didn’t take it. As the reinstatement of Paxil decreased wd which decreased anxiety then solved sd/ed.  

 

When did you develop stomach issues?

Is that why the sibo test?

 I also had stomach issues and tests that showed normal. I still have some issues during my taper. Then they try to label me with crohns, sibo, leaky gut, IBS, etc. That is what they know. 

 

I know you are in pain and hunting answers, been there. If you can try and remember and maybe document when symptoms come and go it will help ease you mind to the cause. Not only does wd cause anxiety in itself so does the symptoms caused by wd create anxiety and drs and test create anxiety and the search for answers create anxiety . I call it wd compounded anxiety. It’s a big circle just feeding off each other. Anxiety on steroids! 
 

Im not saying wd is cause for your symptoms but if they started while you were on a ssri or after stopping ssri it’s a good chance it is. I’m not a dr this is only my experience. 
 

PS

please do not add medication, drugs or supplements at this time. Unless suggested here by a moderator. 
 

you are in a good place here !

hang on💪

[Bmp5452]

Yea I’m just gonna try to correct every aspect of my health at this point . Whether it’s hormones , gut health etc . 

 

I don’t have any gastro symptoms but there is a strong gut-brain axis that can cause a lot of cognitive and emotional issues if the gut is out of wack . 
 

As far as the testosterone goes it’s not hurting anything to try and I won’t know the full effects for a couple months . 
 

Also the anxiety I previously felt before the meds is completely gone , along with all my other emotions . I feel completely empty . 

 

 

[Kaervin]

18 hours ago, Bmp5452 said:

Which so far after 5 months has been no improvement despite trying to correct my health in multiple ways ) and I do not want to let my window of opportunity to reinstate and taper over a much longer period of time to come to a close stranding me in this long healing process . 

I think that is a fear many of us who have been on ADs for a long time worry about. You feel like if you wait too long to go back on you will lose the only chance for reprieve from your symptoms. But there is no guarantee reinstating will help and if it doesn't help, you will probably get distraught over setting yourself back.

 

Only 2 people in my life know how bad things truly were in my benzo withdrawal. 3 months and again at 15 months into my recovery I was getting severe suicidal ideation, losing weight, akathisia, etc. I even called one of those hotlines. Felt that way for 6 weeks straight both tumes. It was like my brain was suicidal but my spirit wanted to live so desperately, it was a frightening experience.

 

Both times I recovered and had the best windows ever right afterward. I know it is hard sometimes to have patience, but healing is going on. 

 

I would also look into what Heath mentioned. During that second round of severe mental distress the doctor tested my testosterone and it was so low I think it was equivalent to a 70 yr old male (I was 26). I never got any treatment but once my window came I got tested again and it was in normal range. So in my case withdrawal did affect my hormones.

 

You are still pretty early in your recovery, better things await you in the future. I will continue to follow your progress and I would like to see you become a success story. I will be following on your footsteps in a couple months and soon be med free.

 

Take care, stay strong

[Bmp5452]

Honestly my symptoms are so severe that if I did reinstate and things went back to baseline , I would stay on them till I died , no question . 

[Bmp5452]

I’ve also noticed that most of you are tapering over the course of almost a year or more when I tapered over 2 months . I think I just went to quick and should restabilize and go a lot slower 

[Greatful]

@Bmp5452

I know this is scary and causes a lot of panic.  Take your time, it is so easy to want that quick fix that before long you are poly drugged and possibly a bigger mess, Because the first thing you try doesn't work so you try another then add on a benzo for anxiety, a sleeping pill for insomnia,  Only you can decide what is right for you.  Just know that I feel for you and have been and still go through those panic stages of wanting a quick fix.  

 

If you can let the mods look things over and see if they come up with a solution, be it reinstating, if so which one and by how much.  I concur with the boys...do not start any hormones or supplements at this time.  If you chose to try a reinstatement and it goes south--now we don't know if the supplements/hormones are causing a problem or is it the reinstatement.  

 

Hang in there as desperate as you feel, you have it in you to wait a little longer💪

 

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, @Bmp5452

 

How has your symptom pattern changed in the last month?

 

Why was lamotrigine and buspirone added to quetiapine in 2021? What dosages of each? Please add the dosages, TRT, and any other drug you're taking to your signature.

 

What effect did Seroquel have on you?

[Heath]

3 hours ago, Bmp5452 said:

Honestly my symptoms are so severe that if I did reinstate and things went back to baseline , I would stay on them till I died , no question . 

You know I said the exact same thing to my wife the first 2 times I stopped too fast! 
But after being on them so long more and more side effects would add up and up

[Bmp5452]

I updated my signature with the doses of the lamictal and buspar and added the testosterone replacement therapy. 

 

The reason I started the lamictal and buspar is because I had a general practitioner start me on the Seroquel back in June. After this same practitioner tapered me off 100mg over the course of a month in November I had a severe withdrawal and ended up in the ER because I had no idea what was happening as I've never had withdrawals from any psychiatric med .  I then began to see a different provider ( a psychiatrist this time ) and because I  had a previous diagnosis of Bipolar ( when I was like 12 years old so 2012 ) she decided that the mood stabilizer ( Lamictal ) and a anti anxiety ( Buspar ) would work better for me. 

 

I do remember feeling slightly different after taking the risperidone back in 2017 , I was never able to put a finger on exactly what it was but now that I look back I'm pretty sure it triggered some long term DP/DR as I this since I came off the med. It was extremely mild though and something I eventually forgot about as time passed.

 

Honestly I felt no different whether I was taking an SSRI like I did in the past , taking the Seroquel , or taking the Seroquel with the other two meds . I had some occasional mild depression and anxiety which was completely manageable through diet and exercise and was honestly generally happy most days . I was productive ( Working 40 hours a week , while hitting the gym 10 - 15 hours a week , on top of teaching my self programming 5 - 7 hours a week . I had some slight fatigue in the morning's but nothing like I feel now . 

 

Now after coming off the meds I had to drop all of my college classes ( Due to memory issues ) , I cant find the energy to hit the gym anymore ( Feels like I have some variation of chronic fatigue or restless sleep ) , I don't care to hangout with friends or date anymore ( Due to self confidence issues regarding my sexual function ) and most days just go to work for the 8 hours , come home and crash from exhaustion . I don't enjoy playing the piano anymore or playing video games ( Two things I loved ) , Its like my life was completely stripped of all colors and feelings that make me human. I feel like an empty husk of the person I once was . My vision is also so bad that it concerns me only I figured it was my DP/DR and haven't cared to get my vision checked by a doctor but will be doing so once I get my new vision insurance in the mail . 

 

My symptom pattern hasn't changed over the past 5 months since I discontinued , it feels like I've been living the same day over and over again since then . I have pretty much no sense of time anymore .

[Roserdl]

As hard as it Is to hear, time is probably the cleanest and best option.  It's a short road to reinstatement to 'augmenting' with other drugs and then trying more and more.  If you do try reinstatement, I would advocate the taper once stable. Or withdrawal stable.  I talked to a lot of people in forums that got on a carousel of drugs trying to cure the withdrawal.  Many had some success but then the drug stopped working.  On it went.   I was tempted to go this way with partial success.  I was offered wellbutrin stimulants benzos and antipsychotics.  I am during neural feedback and acupuncture and tapering off my reinstatement instead.  Extreme kudos for working during this time.  That shows incredible strength.

[Altostrata]

What effect have you felt from testosterone?

 

What is your sleep pattern? Have you seen any change in this since you started testosterone? 

 

You have been on psychiatric drugs since 2012. They tend to cause emotional blunting while you're taking them. This can also emerge as a withdrawal symptom, as can fatigue and demotivation. It sounds like you are experiencing this. As @Roserdl said, time is the best healer. If I were you, I'd get as much gentle exercise as feels comfortable; eat good fresh food; and keep regular hours to improve your sleep. Engage in a social life that's not demanding. This will enable very gradual improvement.

 

See 

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

[Bmp5452]

The testosterone has given me some more energy though not a-lot . Its only been 3-4 weeks of the injections so I have yet to see a-lot of the effects yet but from what I've researched testosterone injections are actually quite safe and can benefit the body in more ways than just hormones .

 

My sleep is kind of spotty . Most nights I get a full 8 hours but other nights I end up tossing and turning for certain portions of the night , regardless of how much sleep I get though I'm always exhausted for the first half of the day at the very least . 

 

The weird part about the emotional blunting is I never felt it on the med , it was only when I came off the med that I started to have issues with the emotional blunting. If anything when I was on the meds I was slightly overemotional and extremely empathetic towards others , especially animals .   

[Altostrata]

Testosterone injections can cause anxiety, depression, mood lability, and sleep disruption. This may make it impossible to distinguish effects from the testosterone injections from psychiatric drug withdrawal symptoms.

 

Many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see

 

https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you. Please let us know how you’re doing.

 

Strongly recommend you work on strengthening your sleep; see tips above. You may have to cope with the emotional anesthesia for a while, to allow it to fade naturally. If testosterone is contributing, this will persist as long as you're getting testosterone treatment.

 

 

[Bmp5452]

I already take both magnesium and fish oil . If I was to reinstate what dosage and drug do you recommend ?

[Altostrata]

If emotional anesthesia and PSSD are your major withdrawal effects, I would not risk reinstating anything, in order to allow those symptoms to fade. If you are getting some sleep, your withdrawal insomnia is not extreme. You might work on improving sleep with non-drug techniques as suggested above.

 

Recovery from going off psychiatric drugs tends to be very slow and halting, occurring over months rather than weeks.

 

Additionally, reinstatement of a psychiatric drug would not be appropriate to address adverse effects of testosterone, as they may be present as well.

[Bmp5452]

So after seriously being concerned of harming myself and a lack of sleep for the past week I’ve decided to reinstate a medication . Wish me the best of luck I’ll keep you updated .

[mstimc]

Hi BMP

 

Reinstatement isn't my area of expertise, so I'll leave that to other members with more experience.  However, I urge you to think about what's driving your decision-making and how you intend to manage your anxiety long-term.  I've dealt with OCD and intrusive thoughts since I was a kid.  It wasn't until I learned about CBT that I was able to manage them without meds.  I could give you some examples of effective coping tools, but the most important thing is your frame of mind--CBT works if you practice and stay focused on recovery.  From personal experience, searching for the how and why of symptoms isn't as effective or healthy as focusing on "what can I do to recover and learn to manage my symptoms long-term"?  Again, reinstatement is a personal choice based on your unique circumstances, so I'm not judging. But you may find it helpful to consider what to do long-term.  Take care!

[Bmp5452]

I appreciate the kind words , I’ve tried forms of talk therapy with no success . I feel that my symptoms are due to my brain forming around the use of these drugs and unfortunately I may not be able to function without them , either that or my previous diagnosis of bipolar depression was correct and if that’s the case living with out medication would be incredibly difficult to do . I plan on using the medication as a tool to better my situation in life and find a more comfortable position to be in to re asses my potential options and coping strategies. Life is unpredictable and sometimes a lot shorter than we’d expect , planning long term may not always be the best move in comparison to finding a way to get through your days . 

[Altostrata]

Did you ever bother reviewing adverse effects of testosterone?

[Bmp5452]

Yes I did .

 

As I said before I feel exactly the same now ( 1 month after starting the injections ) as I did for the 5 months before I did besides slightly more energy. There is just as much research regarding test injections that indicate it can help all the things it can adversely cause . You seem to be confident that some of the symptoms I'm experiencing now , that have been consistent for the entire 6 months since I discontinued are due to the injections which is just odd to say the least. In other words you are hypothesizing that my symptoms from withdraw improved (After 5 months of being consistent with no improvement ) right around the time I started injecting but am now facing adverse effects from the testosterone which has caused my symptoms to be exactly as severe as before the injections (A month later). That is a real large stretch . If we are trying to heal from these drugs I don't see why improving our health in all aspects would be a bad idea , I have low testosterone and have tried all other means to increase it with no luck. Have you even bothered reading into the symptoms of low testosterone ? It can cause all of my symptoms so the argument that the testosterone is good or bad is subjective .

 

Symptoms of low testosterone depend on the age of person, and include the following:

Low sex drive

Erectile dysfunction

Decreased sense of well-being

Depressed mood

Difficulties with concentration and memory

Fatigue

Moodiness and irritability

Loss of muscular strength

 

 

[Bmp5452]

My course of recovery has not shown the usual waves and windows pattern as most people see and because of that I feel that something needs to be done on my end to correct this issue and put my body back on the right path . Sitting around taking omega 3 fish oil and magnesium isn't going to make my mind miraculously start healing after 6 months of no improvement . Obviously my case is different than the average individual on here and more drastic measures are going to need to be taken to fix my issues . 

[Altostrata]

On 6/10/2022 at 1:19 PM, Altostrata said:

If emotional anesthesia and PSSD are your major withdrawal effects, I would not risk reinstating anything, in order to allow those symptoms to fade. If you are getting some sleep, your withdrawal insomnia is not extreme. You might work on improving sleep with non-drug techniques as suggested above.

 

Recovery from going off psychiatric drugs tends to be very slow and halting, occurring over months rather than weeks.

 

Additionally, reinstatement of a psychiatric drug would not be appropriate to address adverse effects of testosterone, as they may be present as well.

 

[Bmp5452]

You were absolutely no help . Have a good one ✌🏻

[Altostrata]

Sorry we cannot instantly solve your problem.