Dee54dee: please help

[Dee54dee]

I had been on Effexor 37.5 was varying doses for approximately 7 years. As of the beginning of 2022 I started having really strange symptoms such as hot flashes sweating insomnia racing heart and general feeling of being unwell. June fourth I had only slept about 4 hours for a few days each and decided to go to the ER to rule out anything physical. When I told them if I don't sleep I want to drive my car off a cliff they kept me. So I stayed 3 days with no medication. Initially I started to feel well. Clear minded and actually could feel Joy. No it's July 4th and it's getting worse if that's even possible. My symptoms are becoming intolerable so I decided to take 5 mg of Fluoxetine. This was about an hour ago. I feel like I'm in a dream I have no energy it's hard to even walk and my heart is racing I can literally hear it pounding in my ears and all I want to do is cry and go to the hospital. But I don't know if they treat this there discontinuation syndrome. I don't know what to do please help

[Frogie]

@Dee54dee

 

Welcome to SA. We are a volunteer ran site helping people taper off psychiatric medications, or have tapered off and are healing.

 

This is your introduction page where you will receive information, ask questions and meet other members. We ask that you only have one introduction page so we can keep all your information in one place.

 

First, can you please create a signature.

 

 

Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature

 

So, you went off Effexor cold turkey and I'm sure that is where your symptoms are coming from. Did the dr prescribe Fluoxetine, or did you ask to be put on it? 

I would not change as it stays in your body a long time compared to Effexor. I would try maybe 1-2 mg of Effexor and see how you do. It takes 7-10 days for it reach fully in your system.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

 

What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

Tips for tapering off venlafaxine (Effexor)

Tips for tapering off fluoxetine (Prozac)

 

After you finish reading the links above, please don't hesitate to reach out with any questions you may have.

 

 

[getofflex]

On 7/4/2022 at 1:44 PM, Dee54dee said:

I had been on Effexor 37.5 was varying doses for approximately 7 years

Just to add to all the wonderful information Frogie has given you, varying doses is a sure way of destabilizing your nervous system.  This may be why you had the strange symptoms at the beginning of 2022.  By varying doses, did you mean deliberately changing the dose, or forgetting and missing doses?  

 

Never Skip Doses

Edited July 8, 2022 by getofflex

[Dee54dee]

Thank you for the reply. Over the past 10 years doctors would either increase or reduce my dosage based on my severe symptoms. I feel as though I'm extremely sensitive to all medication not just antidepressants. If there is a side effect listed I will absolutely have it and have it bad. So the past year my symptoms were so bad that doctors began treating my symptoms instead of realizing it could be Effexor. Racing heart sweats nervousness insomnia digestive issues and general feeling of something is very wrong. So when I wound up in the ER trying to figure out if something was physically wrong they had no access to Mental Health medications. Honestly after being off Effexor for 2 weeks I felt wonderful just like my old self again. Now I am dealing with the rebound a month out. And my psych doctor is afraid to put me on anything. I will add that I did take one dose of Fluoxetine and made me extremely sick vomiting diarrhea nausea fatigue I couldn't even get off the couch. So now that I'm a month out with no psych meds I think I would just need some supplements to help me get over the hump. I am taking 5-HTP and Gaba. I'm considering HRT also. My faith in the medical profession has dwindled greatly welcomed

[Dee54dee]

I would like to also add that my psych doctor gave me a script for clonazepam to help me through this withdrawal. It actually has been helping slightly but I don't want to take it too much for fear of addiction

[Dee54dee]

Hospitalization

 

Has anyone been hospitalized for withdrawal? I'm feeling like I could go there today for sure. I can't really think clearly enough to know what to do

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by ChessieCat
added Intro topic title before merging with intro topic

[getofflex]

Can you please make your drug signature more concise, and list only the drug name, the dosages, and the dates of each dose change?  Don't mention symptoms, or describe anything, just the very basic drug info.  It would be especially helpful to have the details of your drugs in a concise vertical list (no symptoms), only drug names, specific dates (as best you can say for example early March if you don't recall the day) and dosages of each medication decrease or increase.  Use this format:

 

Drug name: date, dose, date, dose, date, dose…

Drug name: date, dose, date, dose, date, dose…

Etcetera

 

Please read the link below for instructions.  This will allow us to give you the best guidance.  

 

How to List Drug History in Signature

 

This will make it much easier to figure out your drug history, and help you.  This site is manned by a small number of volunteers who help a lot of people. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by getofflex

[Dee54dee]

Yes. My apologies

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, Dee54dee said:

Hospitalization

 

Has anyone been hospitalized for withdrawal? I'm feeling like I could go there today for sure. I can't really think clearly enough to know what to do

 

 

Generally the medical professionals do not recognise psychiatric drug withdrawal and do not know what to do about it.  What we have seen happen to members who go to hospital is that they might be given too high dose of their drug, or they might be given a benzo, or they have another drug added or might be cold turkeyed off their current drug and switched to a different drug.  They might end up worse after going to hospital than what they were before.

 

The only known way to reduce withdrawal symptoms is to reintroduce a small dose of the drug that you stopped because that is what the brain has become accustomed to getting.  But it is important to start with a small dose and only increase by small increments if needed.  The idea of reinstatement is NOT to get rid of withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a bearable level.

 

Please carefully read Post #1 of this topic so you can make an informed decision; SA is not able to make this decision for you:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Post #1 of this topic explains how to get non standard doses:

 

Tips for tapering off venlafaxine (Effexor)

 

 

[Dee54dee]

Thank you very much. That was extremely helpful. My psych doc did give me clonazepam a two-month Supply to help me. I'm not sure how to take it though in order not to become dependent on that. Is there any articles on tapering off benzo

[Dee54dee]

Pristiq

 

I really considered going inpatient today. I was at the end of my rope. 

After taking 12.5 of Pristiq, I passed out, woke up and actually began drawing!!!!!

 

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by ChessieCat
added Intro topic title before merging with intro topic

[Frogie]

@Dee54dee

 

Are you taking Pristiq now?

 

When did you start that? 

 

I guess I'm a bit confused.

 

 

[ChessieCat]

  

1 hour ago, Dee54dee said:

After taking 12.5 of Pristiq

 

Please update your drug signature with the drug name, date and the dose:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

We need to be able to see your drug history at a glance.  Thank you.

 

11 hours ago, Dee54dee said:

So has anyone tried 2 treat the withdrawal symptoms with any natural supplements such as St John's Wort or 5-HTP Gaba or SAM-e? 

 

The only 2 supplements which SA recommends are Magnesium and Omega-3 Fish Oil.  When trying anything new, start with a small amount and only try/make one change at a time.

 

If you are experiencing withdrawal symptoms from going off Effexor, then it is generally better to reinstate the same drug.  You have taken Pristiq (desvenlafaxine) which is a very similar drug to Effexor (venlafaxine).  However, it can be difficult to non standard doses of Pristiq.  I had to get mine compounded and take it twice a day.  So you might want to reconsider whether it might be better to return to Effexor to make it easier to taper.

 

Tips for tapering off desvenlafaxine (Pristiq)

 

There are many topics on SA.

 

All 3 of the supplements you ask about all act very similarly to prescription psychiatric drugs:

 

st-johns-wort-hypericum-perforatum

 

gaba-supplements-good-or-bad

 

sam-e-s-adenosyl-l-methionine  see this post

 

 

[Dee54dee]

7 minutes ago, Frogie said:

@Dee54dee

 

Are you taking Pristiq now?

 

When did you start that? 

 

I guess I'm a bit confused.

 

 

Yes. My apologies. My brain hasn't been working like it should. I am now taking Pristiq and feel much much better

[Frogie]

Please keep us updated as you shouldn’t be switching from medication to medication.

 

You will need to have a very long hold before you think about tapering the Pristiq.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Frogie

[Dee54dee]

https://meridian.allenpress.com/mhc/article/4/1/35/37054/Key-differences-between-Venlafaxine-XR-and

 

I read this and decided it was a better alternative for me than fluoexitine. My brain feels better already and Pristiq is similar to venlafexine

[ChessieCat]

I agree with Frogie that it would be a good idea to do a long hold before you start tapering Pristiq.

 

I assume that you are cutting a 25mg Pristiq tablet in half to get your dose.  It is important to get your dose as accurate as possible.  You might consider buying a Gemini 20 scale or similar to weigh your dose.  Also be aware that if the tablet crumbles and you take pieces then you might need to split your dose and take twice a day because the half life is only about 11-12 hours.  This can result in interdose withdrawal where you start to feel worse leading up to taking the next dose and then once the next dose takes effect you start to feel improvement.  It is better for your nervous system if this can be avoided.

 

using-a-scale-to-weigh-and-measure-doses

 

[Dee54dee]

5 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

I agree with Frogie that it would be a good idea to do a long hold before you start tapering Pristiq.

 

I assume that you are cutting a 25mg Pristiq tablet in half to get your dose.  It is important to get your dose as accurate as possible.  You might consider buying a Gemini 20 scale or similar to weigh your dose.  Also be aware that if the tablet crumbles and you take pieces then you might need to split your dose and take twice a day because the half life is only about 11-12 hours.  This can result in interdose withdrawal where you start to feel worse leading up to taking the next dose and then once the next dose takes effect you start to feel improvement.  It is better for your nervous system if this can be avoided.

 

using-a-scale-to-weigh-and-measure-doses

 

I hadn't thought of that. Thank you. If I feel good enough I may not taper off at all but it is still early in recovery

[ChessieCat]

Please be aware that psychiatric drugs can reach tolerance if you take them for a long time.  That is what happened to me when I was taking citalopram but I didn't know what had happened until after I came to SA. 

 

And you are basically taking the same drug.

 

tolerance-or-poop-out-or-tachyphylaxis

 

The general pattern of poop out is that you gradually start to feel worse whilst making no changes to the dose.  In my case I didn't notice any gradual worsening (but it might have been happening) but when I experienced several moderate life stressors in a short period of time I ended up having a break down at my daughter's wedding reception.  It was as if I wasn't taking the drug (citalopram) at all.  When I cold turkeyed it I felt better than I had done in a long time but a few months later I experienced delayed withdrawal and was bedridden for 2.5 weeks.  When I came to SA I realised that it was poop out.  When in poop out, generally what happens is that after making a reduction you can feel improvement and then gradually start to feel worse again, which is the opposite of regular tapering WD which generally happens soon after a reduction and then gradually improves.

 

When the drug reaches tolerance, if the dose is increased generally you will feel better but then after a while the same thing happens.

[ChessieCat]

July 2022 - 12.5 Pristiq

 

Please add the full date to your drug signature.

 

 

I've moved you topic about supplements to the existing topic:

 

what-helps-what-doesnt-supplements-herbs-vitamins-amino-acids-etc

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2022 by ChessieCat

[Dee54dee]

Down to about 8mg

 

So my Dr prescribed 25mg IR and I've been cutting it in half. Then in quarters. So I took 1/4 tablet 3 days ago and can you believe I am STILL feeling withdrawals???? Either I am extra sensitive or this is a very potent drug.

 

Does anyone have suggestions?

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by ChessieCat
added Intro topic title before merging with intro topic

[ChessieCat]

11 hours ago, Dee54dee said:

So I took 1/4 tablet 3 days ago

 

It takes about 4 dose days to get to a steady level/strength in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

Q:  Have you been taking 1/4 tablet venlafaxine every day?

 

Q:  Are you dividing the dose and taking it twice a day?  If not, then you will probably be experiencing interdose withdrawal because immediate release (IR) needs to be doses twice a dose because of the short half life.  If you are only taking it once a dose what happens is that single dose builds up and you start to feel a bit better and then during the time leading to when you next dose is due (24 hours later) you start to feel worse, and the pattern repeats itself - this is interdose withdrawal.

 

From Post #1 of this topic Tips for tapering off venlafaxine (Effexor)

 

On 5/6/2011 at 1:01 PM, Altostrata said:

Because its half-life is so short, immediate-release venlafaxine is taken 2 or 3 times a day.

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by ChessieCat

[Dee54dee]

I had got down to 1/2 tab once a day for a few days. Then 1/4 tab for one day then tried to stop thinking that would be low enough dose.

I don't feel awful. Just surprised I have ANY symptoms at all. 

This is day 3 of no medication at all.

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

It takes about 4 dose to get to a steady level/strength in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

CORRECTION:  should read "4 days" not 4 dose.  I will correct the original.

[ChessieCat]

11 hours ago, Dee54dee said:

can you believe I am STILL feeling withdrawals????

 

Yes this is not at all surprising considering the changes you have made since you stopped Effexor (I assume 37.5mg) back at the beginning of June.  And also now that you have explained what you have done (I thought you had continued reinstatement).

 

31 minutes ago, Dee54dee said:

I had got down to 1/2 tab once a day for a few days. Then 1/4 tab for one day then tried to stop thinking that would be low enough dose.

 

and I've can see from your drug signature that you stopped venlafaxine, started Pristiq and then restarted venlafaxine and then stopped it.

 

2016- effexor 75mg

2017- 2022 effexor 37.5

June 5 2022- no meds

July 12 2022 - 12.5 Pristiq

July 16 2022 stopped Pristiq

July 28 2022 - 25mg IR venlafexine

 

 

The way you have done this is NOT the way you reinstate a drug; you take a small dose of the drug and then continue taking that dose until you stabilise.  Please carefully and thoroughly read Post #1 of this topic:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

[Dee54dee]

So I was stabil on 1/2 tab of 24mg. That's why I thought I'd start tapering. And like I said, the effects are tolerable. 

 

I re-read the link you sent and am overwhelmed with information. It's very hard for me to understand what I should do based on all I've read. 

I would think 6.25mg of IR would be low enough to stop? But I may be wrong idk

Edited August 20, 2022 by Dee54dee
New info

[ChessieCat]

19 minutes ago, Dee54dee said:

I would think 6.25mg of IR would be low enough to stop? But I may be wrong idk

 

Generally the minimum dose to stop at is about 0.025mg and that is after a recommended taper of no more than 10% of current dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.

 

When to end the taper and jump to zero?

 

This topic explains how to get non standard doses of venlafaxine:

 

Tips for tapering off venlafaxine (Effexor)

 

You can make your own liquid from IR tablets:

 

On 5/6/2011 at 1:01 PM, Altostrata said:

Taper by cutting up immediate-release venlafaxine tablets
Regular Effexor tablets come in 25mg, 37.5mg, 50mg, 75mg, and 100mg doses. People taking regular Effexor taper by cutting up the tablets with a pill splitter. It's a good idea to keep the pieces you don't use in a clean pill bottle labeled with the dosage for future use.

 

Because its half-life is so short, immediate-release venlafaxine is taken 2 or 3 times a day.

 

Make a liquid suspension of immediate-release venlafaxine tablets
Titrating using a liquid is very good for very small measured decreases in dosage, allowing more precise measurements.

• Have immediate-release venlafaxine made into a compounded liquid by a compounding pharmacy.
• Make a solution of immediate-release venlafaxine and water yourself.
  Technically, venlafaxine is water-soluble (http://chemicalland21.com/lifescience/phar/VENLAFAXINE%20HYDROCHLORIDE.htm ) There are reports that you can make a solution yourself.  Also see How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

[Dee54dee]

Thank you!! This helps so very much!!!

[ChessieCat]

If you do decide that you want to reinstate venlaxine, please let us know and we can suggest a small dose.  It is better to reinstate a small amount and increase by small increments if necessary than to risk taking too high a dose which might make things worse.

[Dee54dee]

Yes. I was thinking 1/2 of 25mg IR (12.5mg) for 4 weeks. But after that the math confuses me. I read about creating a liquid but then I couldn't figure out how much 10% would be in ml. 

 

[Dee54dee]

So yesterday and today I've taken 12.5mg of venlafexine IR and I think it was too much. I'm having sweats, insomnia and akathsia pretty bad. I think tomorrow I'll either take 6.25mg or none at all.

[Onmyway]

@Dee54dee

 Multiple people here have recommended a 10% taper advice which you have ignored, they then suggested small dose (1mg) reinstatement which you have also ignored. You ignored advice on which drug to reinstate.

 

I'm curious what you want/expect from SA. Dealing with people who ignore advice and then come complaining about bad symptoms is very frustrating to moderators. We are volunteers trying to support thousands of people. When we spend our time on you and you don't listen to our advice you are taking resources away from someone else who can use our help. 

 

What is it that you want from SA?

 

OMW

[Dee54dee]

If you've read my posts it should be apparent that I am not thinking at full capacity.

1. Due to the meds themselves

2. Due to my mental state of mind

3. Due to trying to stop these meds.

My frame of mind is very sensitive and vulnerable. I am feeling insecure and nervous. My memory is spotty.

What no one has told me is exactly what the math is because I can't figure it out. Yes I have read every article suggested. If I make a liquid what is the ratio of liquid to pill? And how do I know how much of that to take? Is 25mg of a pill the same as a liquid? How do I take 1mg of venlafexine IR?  Also I have no money to buy a scale to weigh out doses so I am at a complete disadvantage.

What I want is to stop taking venlafexine 25mg IR.

Yes I've made some poor choices but don't feel like I should be chastised for it given my state of mind.

[Onmyway]

4 hours ago, Dee54dee said:

If you've read my posts it should be apparent that I am not thinking at full capacity.

1. Due to the meds themselves

2. Due to my mental state of mind

3. Due to trying to stop these meds.

My frame of mind is very sensitive and vulnerable. I am feeling insecure and nervous. My memory is spotty.

What no one has told me is exactly what the math is because I can't figure it out. Yes I have read every article suggested. If I make a liquid what is the ratio of liquid to pill? And how do I know how much of that to take? Is 25mg of a pill the same as a liquid? How do I take 1mg of venlafexine IR?  Also I have no money to buy a scale to weigh out doses so I am at a complete disadvantage.

What I want is to stop taking venlafexine 25mg IR.

Yes I've made some poor choices but don't feel like I should be chastised for it given my state of mind.

If you are unable to follow instructions there is nothing that we can do for you virtually - we are an Internet forum. We can't come home and fix things for you or make you do things.

 

The reinstatement thread clearly says to reinstate a very small amount and you went and reinstated a full pill, then quarters etc before asking us to help you to get you 1mg.

 

You don't need a scale to taper these drugs, you can dissolve them in water. The thread linked above tells you how to do it. You need to get a 10ml and a 1ml syringe. Once you do that we can tell you how much to take etc. and what to do exactly.

 

You need to take responsibility for your taper. The alternative is to keep jumping and making yourself worse in the process. At some point things can get much worse and recovery from there can go over years. Some people are unable to care for themselves properly for years once things have destabilized completely. 

 

We may feel bad for you but unless you follow our instructions there is nothing we can do for you.

 

Can you do that? If so let us know when you've obtained the syringes and I'll give precise instructions on what to do.

 

OMW 

[Dee54dee]

I have the syringes and am ready to follow instructions

☺️

[Onmyway]

@Dee54dee, seems like you are using 25mg IR venlafaxine.

Now, on Friday you have said that you feel stable at 12.5mg of IR venlafaxine. Is that correct? But then you said that you thought that that was too much. Can you describe in as much detail as possible all your doses since July 12th for every day? Include all other drugs as well - you mentioned clonazepam? 

 

For example: 

July 12 - 12.5mg pristiq

July 13 - 12.5g pristiq

July 14 - 8 mg pristiq , 0.25mg clonazepam 

.....

 

July 17 - 0mg drugs 

 

 

Then please describe how your symptoms have changed and what your current symptoms are. 

This will helps us determine your state of withdrawal/sensitivity and recommend the right dose. We will then evaluate how that goes in a couple of days and make changes if necessary. 

 

As soon as you provide that information, I will give you very detailed descriptions of what to do with your medicine. 

OMW