edgewater9 Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 I should add that each time after the derealization (as happened this morning) I have experienced 10/10 incapacitating anxiety. Definitely things have gotten better overall since updosing to .6mg though took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
LostInCanada Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 My personal experience is when my sleep is worse than usual, I always have an increase in symptoms. I have concentrated on sleep hygiene, stress management, self talk, deep breathing etc. to try minimize this as much as possible. I do think you were reacting negatively to the higher dose. It is impossible to avoid the consequences of these drugs unfortunately. 20 yr+ Paroxetine/ Dec2018-May 2022 20 mg/ May 2022 30mg/2022.07.28-2022.08.24 30mg to 0mg/ August 24-29 2022 10mg Prozac/2022.11.28-2022.12.04- 5mg Paroxetine/Dec 5&6/22 10mg Paroxetine/ Dec 8&9/22 10mg Prozac/ 2022.12.07 to 2023.07.01 5mg Paroxetine TAPER 23.07.02-58mgpw/4.9mgai/ 23.07.21-4.8 mg/23.07.28-4.73 mg/23.08.04-4.65 mg/21.09.23-4.58 mg/27.10.23-4.56 mg/5.12.23-4.54 mg/2.1.24-4.52 mg/9.1.24-4.51 mg/17.1.24-4.49 mg/26.1.24-4.47 mg/6.2.24-4.46 mg/19.2.24-4.44mg /4.4.24-4.43mg 8am-probiotics/9am-paroxetine, 200mg mag bisglycinate/ 1000mg Vitamin D/noon-1000 mg algae oil (500mg DHA/10mg EPA/620mg Omega 3)/5pm-75 mg DGL/200mg calcium citrate/8pm-.25 mg melatonin "... your strength will be in keeping calm..."-Isaiah 30:15 I am not a medical professional just your peer. The suggestions I give are based on personal experience and/or the well documented experience of others. Link to comment
Poppy745 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Hi @edgewater9 I also tapered off too quick off Citalopram and jumped in July this year. I had no idea about WD until I saw The BBC documentary. It all makes sense now, the other times I have tried to come off. It took a couple of weeks before the terrible anxiety, insommnia and derealization(among other things) kicked in. I reinstated at the end of September. Just to let you know that you are not alone. Bad waves and awful anxiety have started again for me last week after it had settled down a lot. It is very frustrating, I really do understand. I am currently riding it out in the hope that the good period I had for about 2.5/3 weeks returns soon. I am working on bringing back my positive mindset in the hope it helps to get me back where I need to be. Sending strength and good wishes. I am glad that things have improved overall. 🙂 None of my posts are medical advice, just my own experience. Please see your Doctor for any medical advice. Venlafaxine can't remember exact dose,normal starting dose(Around 2014/15-2017) Citalopram 10mg (2018-Present - Attempted to stop taking in Aug 22, but got WD - Thought it was 'relapse') 5 months 22 from Sep to Jan Venlafaxine) Back to 10mg Citalopram -as thought would be easier to stop than Venlaxine Fast Taper off Citalopram (didn't know about WD) late June to Mid July 23. CT'd until late Sep 23, Stupidly took 3 Days 10mg fluoxetine on Dr advice, intended to taper as soon a stable. Dr said Fluox easier to taper( akathasia reaction) Stopped fluox about 26/9/23. 29/9/23.Reinstated at 2.5mg Citalopram. Holding until stable to taper off. 14/11/23 Reduced to 2.375mg because felt akathasia. Holding until stable. Link to comment
edgewater9 Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 Thank you both, Poppy how did you feel when you reinstated? I was unable to increase my dose past .7mg without a adverse reaction, did you have any reaction when you reinstated? And thank you so much for the support, I'm really struggling took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
edgewater9 Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 Also, did your sleep improve when you reinstated? My sleep is terrible then nonexistent and I know it is contributing to symptoms like LostinCanada said took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
Poppy745 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 @edgewater9 I am so sorry you are struggling. I am too. I just looked back at my journal and the first few days after reinstament I had bad waves and anxiety, feeling dread and cut off from the world. I remember panicking on the first day, as the wave I had in the evening was SO awful. Sleep and appetite got better within a few days, but there have been times when sleep/appetite had been an issue again, depending on waves and anxiety. Overall there was a gradual improvement over 2 to 3 weeks and then I actually felt almost normal for a while. I have some serious family stressors going on, but even then I was okish until last week. I don't remember an adverse reaction, other than terrible waves. The anxiety/intrusive thoughts are the worst part now. They totally stop everything. I have had a couple of windows today, so hoping this is a sign things may improve. You say things have improved overall? Are you having any good periods? None of my posts are medical advice, just my own experience. Please see your Doctor for any medical advice. Venlafaxine can't remember exact dose,normal starting dose(Around 2014/15-2017) Citalopram 10mg (2018-Present - Attempted to stop taking in Aug 22, but got WD - Thought it was 'relapse') 5 months 22 from Sep to Jan Venlafaxine) Back to 10mg Citalopram -as thought would be easier to stop than Venlaxine Fast Taper off Citalopram (didn't know about WD) late June to Mid July 23. CT'd until late Sep 23, Stupidly took 3 Days 10mg fluoxetine on Dr advice, intended to taper as soon a stable. Dr said Fluox easier to taper( akathasia reaction) Stopped fluox about 26/9/23. 29/9/23.Reinstated at 2.5mg Citalopram. Holding until stable to taper off. 14/11/23 Reduced to 2.375mg because felt akathasia. Holding until stable. Link to comment
Poppy745 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 @edgewater9 I do sometimes wonder if I should have reinstated lower, but it is a difficult thing to know. None of my posts are medical advice, just my own experience. Please see your Doctor for any medical advice. Venlafaxine can't remember exact dose,normal starting dose(Around 2014/15-2017) Citalopram 10mg (2018-Present - Attempted to stop taking in Aug 22, but got WD - Thought it was 'relapse') 5 months 22 from Sep to Jan Venlafaxine) Back to 10mg Citalopram -as thought would be easier to stop than Venlaxine Fast Taper off Citalopram (didn't know about WD) late June to Mid July 23. CT'd until late Sep 23, Stupidly took 3 Days 10mg fluoxetine on Dr advice, intended to taper as soon a stable. Dr said Fluox easier to taper( akathasia reaction) Stopped fluox about 26/9/23. 29/9/23.Reinstated at 2.5mg Citalopram. Holding until stable to taper off. 14/11/23 Reduced to 2.375mg because felt akathasia. Holding until stable. Link to comment
edgewater9 Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 I am glad to hear you have good periods and am getting some windows. My WD has been really bad and I had terrible thoughts, and I made many dosage changes which didn't help and tried Buspar. After I updosed to .6mg it got better but today was unbearable after two nights with no sleep. I think you did the right thing reinstating at 2.5, it may have been way worse if you didn't. I'm trying to hold at the .6mg instead of updosing again but am close to losing it. took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
edgewater9 Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 I have periods during the day for a couple hours that are OK but then terrible anxiety comes on again. I'm at a loss as to what to do because I can't go like this for many more days. I never have more than two days that are decent then a wave comes and the cycle starts again. Even 3 or 4 days that are OK would keep me going took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
Poppy745 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 @edgewater9See what the moderators think and where you should go from here. The thoughts can be just awful and no sleep. Blacking out the windows really helped with my sleep. I still wake very early and get early morning spikes, but I can usually get at least 4 or 5 hours. If you have not already take a look at Clair weeks method around anxiety, where you focus on the feeling and not the thoughts. It does not always work, but I have found that if I catch the thoughts early enough I can sometimes stop them from going too far. Sending strength to you. None of my posts are medical advice, just my own experience. Please see your Doctor for any medical advice. Venlafaxine can't remember exact dose,normal starting dose(Around 2014/15-2017) Citalopram 10mg (2018-Present - Attempted to stop taking in Aug 22, but got WD - Thought it was 'relapse') 5 months 22 from Sep to Jan Venlafaxine) Back to 10mg Citalopram -as thought would be easier to stop than Venlaxine Fast Taper off Citalopram (didn't know about WD) late June to Mid July 23. CT'd until late Sep 23, Stupidly took 3 Days 10mg fluoxetine on Dr advice, intended to taper as soon a stable. Dr said Fluox easier to taper( akathasia reaction) Stopped fluox about 26/9/23. 29/9/23.Reinstated at 2.5mg Citalopram. Holding until stable to taper off. 14/11/23 Reduced to 2.375mg because felt akathasia. Holding until stable. Link to comment
edgewater9 Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 Thank you so much for the answers and help. The mods suggested to stay at .6mg for at least 3 months. I respect their opinion and am trying to follow it. I have tried everything for the anxiety suggested on the site, it just seems to be getting worse over time. I would love to hear that the anxiety will decrease as time goes on specific to going off citalopram, but I can't find any success stories relating to severe citalopram anxiety from WD going away. I'm just frustrated and losing hope but your posts made did make me feel better. took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
Poppy745 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 @edgewater9 I think there are other ssri stories where the anxiety has got better, not always completely while tapering or healing, but it changes. I asked the same question yesterday about on my thread. I wish you well. I hope you get some sleep. None of my posts are medical advice, just my own experience. Please see your Doctor for any medical advice. Venlafaxine can't remember exact dose,normal starting dose(Around 2014/15-2017) Citalopram 10mg (2018-Present - Attempted to stop taking in Aug 22, but got WD - Thought it was 'relapse') 5 months 22 from Sep to Jan Venlafaxine) Back to 10mg Citalopram -as thought would be easier to stop than Venlaxine Fast Taper off Citalopram (didn't know about WD) late June to Mid July 23. CT'd until late Sep 23, Stupidly took 3 Days 10mg fluoxetine on Dr advice, intended to taper as soon a stable. Dr said Fluox easier to taper( akathasia reaction) Stopped fluox about 26/9/23. 29/9/23.Reinstated at 2.5mg Citalopram. Holding until stable to taper off. 14/11/23 Reduced to 2.375mg because felt akathasia. Holding until stable. Link to comment
edgewater9 Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 Thank you again for the kind words and help, have a great night! took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
edgewater9 Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 Mods I desperately need some advice. I have avoided and stopped all other drugs (hydroxzine and propranolol) over a month ago to combat anxiety and I am at wits end. I have had 10/10 debilitating anxiety for over 18 hrs and I'm in a crisis. I know I've only been at .6mg for two weeks but is there any chance a small updose would relieve this? I have tried every non med technique possible for some relief but there is none took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
Mentor Catina7 Posted November 7, 2023 Mentor Share Posted November 7, 2023 39 minutes ago, edgewater9 said: Mods I desperately need some advice. I have avoided and stopped all other drugs (hydroxzine and propranolol) over a month ago to combat anxiety and I am at wits end. I have had 10/10 debilitating anxiety for over 18 hrs and I'm in a crisis. I know I've only been at .6mg for two weeks but is there any chance a small updose would relieve this? I have tried every non med technique possible for some relief but there is none Hi @edgewater9, I'm not a moderator but I'm sorry you're having such a difficult time. I too struggle with the anxiety. Can you take measures to activate your vagus nerve? Sometimes that has helped me. Also, doing EFT Tapping has helped as well. Please know that you are SAFE and NOT in any kind of danger, even though it may feel like it. Don't fight the anxiety...welcome it with open arms and just let it be. Disclaimer: This is not professional medical advice but is based on personal experience only. 1994 - 2017: Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Paxil, Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Seroquel, Buspar, Lorazepam, Xanax, Ambien 2005-present: Trazodone 50 mg 2017: Effexor XR 37.5 >> 75 mg 2020 (March): Began 10% monthly taper of Effexor XR (got down to 12 mg) 2021 (September): Completely crashed. Went back up to 37.5 mg but in doing so I kindled myself 2024: 1/1: 35.6 mg (-6 beads) | 2/1: 33.8 mg (-11 beads) | 3/1: 32.1 mg (-16 beads) | 4/1: (-18 beads) Reasons for starting psych meds: PMDD/Depression, Generalized Anxiety Disorder Other medications: Levothyroxine 75 mcg Supplements: Dr. Berg's Electrolyte Powder on occasion Link to comment
edgewater9 Posted November 8, 2023 Author Share Posted November 8, 2023 Thanks for replying, I am used to dealing with anxiety and have tried vagal measures, cold showers, meditation and everything else. I have not had it this bad for this long ever in my life. I am panicking because it will only let up for 10 minutes at most and has been going since last night, it's completely overwhelming. But thank you for the kind suggestions and taking the time to write me took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 8, 2023 Administrator Share Posted November 8, 2023 You might still have occasional spells of symptoms for quite a while, in The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization How long have you taken 0.6mg? Please update your signature. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
edgewater9 Posted November 8, 2023 Author Share Posted November 8, 2023 I have been taking .6mg since 10/17, things seemed like they were getting better physically and mentally ( ear popping, muscle spasms etc.) but the anxiety that happened today made me lose hope I am making progress. It is so disheartening to have one of the worst days of my life this far in, I was hopeful an updose could help tomorrow if it continues at this intensity took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 8, 2023 Administrator Share Posted November 8, 2023 One or 2 days of symptoms does not a pattern make. If I were you, I'd stick with 0.7mg unless you see a continuing pattern of worsening symptoms. You will need to be patient to let your nervous system settle down. 1 This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
edgewater9 Posted November 8, 2023 Author Share Posted November 8, 2023 Thanks Alto, so I should stick with my current dose unless things continue to decline multiple days? I know you said .7mg but I am currently on .6mg. I just want to be sure so I can follow your advice correctly took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 8, 2023 Administrator Share Posted November 8, 2023 8 minutes ago, edgewater9 said: so I should stick with my current dose unless things continue to decline multiple days? Correct, stick with your current 0.6mg. Please update your signature. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
edgewater9 Posted November 9, 2023 Author Share Posted November 9, 2023 Alto, my symptoms continued to get worse all through the night and I updosed from. 6mg to .65mg the next morning on zero sleep. It helped tremendously and as of today I have minimal symptoms remaining. If this happens again with symptoms worsening tremendously do I have to wait a full week before a small updose or is it OK before then? took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 10, 2023 Administrator Share Posted November 10, 2023 If I were you, I'd wait a week. Any drug change needs time to take full effect. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
edgewater9 Posted November 10, 2023 Author Share Posted November 10, 2023 Ok, thank you. I will try to stay the course for at least a week and hopefully longer took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
Poppy745 Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 Hi @edgewater9 How are you doing? I remember chatting to you a little while back. We both reinstated Citalopram. None of my posts are medical advice, just my own experience. Please see your Doctor for any medical advice. Venlafaxine can't remember exact dose,normal starting dose(Around 2014/15-2017) Citalopram 10mg (2018-Present - Attempted to stop taking in Aug 22, but got WD - Thought it was 'relapse') 5 months 22 from Sep to Jan Venlafaxine) Back to 10mg Citalopram -as thought would be easier to stop than Venlaxine Fast Taper off Citalopram (didn't know about WD) late June to Mid July 23. CT'd until late Sep 23, Stupidly took 3 Days 10mg fluoxetine on Dr advice, intended to taper as soon a stable. Dr said Fluox easier to taper( akathasia reaction) Stopped fluox about 26/9/23. 29/9/23.Reinstated at 2.5mg Citalopram. Holding until stable to taper off. 14/11/23 Reduced to 2.375mg because felt akathasia. Holding until stable. Link to comment
edgewater9 Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 Hi Poppy, I have continued to updose in 10% increments and am now at 1.34 mg. I am feeling SO much better each updose I cannot tell you. I have gone from 0-2 hours sleep each night to about 5. And my quality of life is way better each day. Are you still at the same dose and how are you doing? took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
LostInCanada Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 @edgewater9 great to get an update. Happy for you doing so much better. 20 yr+ Paroxetine/ Dec2018-May 2022 20 mg/ May 2022 30mg/2022.07.28-2022.08.24 30mg to 0mg/ August 24-29 2022 10mg Prozac/2022.11.28-2022.12.04- 5mg Paroxetine/Dec 5&6/22 10mg Paroxetine/ Dec 8&9/22 10mg Prozac/ 2022.12.07 to 2023.07.01 5mg Paroxetine TAPER 23.07.02-58mgpw/4.9mgai/ 23.07.21-4.8 mg/23.07.28-4.73 mg/23.08.04-4.65 mg/21.09.23-4.58 mg/27.10.23-4.56 mg/5.12.23-4.54 mg/2.1.24-4.52 mg/9.1.24-4.51 mg/17.1.24-4.49 mg/26.1.24-4.47 mg/6.2.24-4.46 mg/19.2.24-4.44mg /4.4.24-4.43mg 8am-probiotics/9am-paroxetine, 200mg mag bisglycinate/ 1000mg Vitamin D/noon-1000 mg algae oil (500mg DHA/10mg EPA/620mg Omega 3)/5pm-75 mg DGL/200mg calcium citrate/8pm-.25 mg melatonin "... your strength will be in keeping calm..."-Isaiah 30:15 I am not a medical professional just your peer. The suggestions I give are based on personal experience and/or the well documented experience of others. Link to comment
edgewater9 Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 Thank you, I am still having a lot of withdrawal symptoms like chills, flu feeling, tingly anxiety and fatigue but they are getting less it seems. With the last updose I have moved away from unbearable anxiety as well and am very thankful. I was about to start heavy sleep meds but stuck with the updose instead 1 took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
Poppy745 Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 1 hour ago, edgewater9 said: Hi Poppy, I have continued to updose in 10% increments and am now at 1.34 mg. I am feeling SO much better each updose I cannot tell you. I have gone from 0-2 hours sleep each night to about 5. And my quality of life is way better each day. Are you still at the same dose and how are you doing? Hi @edgewater9 So have you gone up by 1.34mg to 6mg (on signature) or are you at 1.34mg? I am so glad that you are feeling much brighter. I am struggling greatly at the moment. I am on 2.375mg. I dropped by 5% a few weeks ago because I felt that I was having an adverse reaction. I felt really good for the first 8 days (compared to before anyway), but things have got worse since. I was having regular windows, but the last few days and most of last week have just been so awful with intrusive thoughts and anxiety. The physical side was a lot better, but I have noticed that if the anxiety is really bad, then some of the physical stuff gets worse. I really hope that things will improve. I had a good few weeks a couple of weeks after reinstating initially at 2.5mg, but it did not last long. I still cannot believe that this is my life. I'm really pleased for you Edgewater and that you are sleeping better. That will really help. None of my posts are medical advice, just my own experience. Please see your Doctor for any medical advice. Venlafaxine can't remember exact dose,normal starting dose(Around 2014/15-2017) Citalopram 10mg (2018-Present - Attempted to stop taking in Aug 22, but got WD - Thought it was 'relapse') 5 months 22 from Sep to Jan Venlafaxine) Back to 10mg Citalopram -as thought would be easier to stop than Venlaxine Fast Taper off Citalopram (didn't know about WD) late June to Mid July 23. CT'd until late Sep 23, Stupidly took 3 Days 10mg fluoxetine on Dr advice, intended to taper as soon a stable. Dr said Fluox easier to taper( akathasia reaction) Stopped fluox about 26/9/23. 29/9/23.Reinstated at 2.5mg Citalopram. Holding until stable to taper off. 14/11/23 Reduced to 2.375mg because felt akathasia. Holding until stable. Link to comment
edgewater9 Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 Poppy, each time I updose I feel horrible for the first day or two then things improve. Its a trend I have noticed but am improving with each successive one and each time I updose its getting less painful at the start. I am currently at 1.34mg, I started at .6mg not 6mg. I am going to keep updosing in 10% increments until I find real stability. I am so sorry you are struggling and I have had the exact feeling in the past about this being my life now. I will not suggest medication advice but did you feel better at 2.5mg or higher? took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
Poppy745 Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 36 minutes ago, edgewater9 said: Poppy, each time I updose I feel horrible for the first day or two then things improve. Its a trend I have noticed but am improving with each successive one and each time I updose its getting less painful at the start. I am currently at 1.34mg, I started at .6mg not 6mg. I am going to keep updosing in 10% increments until I find real stability. I am so sorry you are struggling and I have had the exact feeling in the past about this being my life now. I will not suggest medication advice but did you feel better at 2.5mg or higher? @edgewater9Ah ok. I thought that was the case, but checking. I worry about making any more changes and about akathasia, which I started to get on 2.5mg. When the GP put me on prozac just before I reinstated I was really ill with akathasia. I stopped taking it after 3 days. It was a terrible mistake, but felt desperate and listened to the GP. That was 10mg. I may be that sensitive to Citalopram now too, but can't know for sure, other than knowing that after I took the dose (after 6 weeks) of 2.5 I felt terrible, shaking and deep waves and it settled later in the day. It is all so difficult! But the 2.375mg obviously is not working either. I was in CT for pretty much 3 months and worry that I may get even worse if I updosed even back to 2.5. I had a one off meeting with a tapering expert and they said I need to stablize. They didn't mention updosing, but I didn't ask. I really hope that these thoughts will get better soon. Thanks for your support Edgewater. None of my posts are medical advice, just my own experience. Please see your Doctor for any medical advice. Venlafaxine can't remember exact dose,normal starting dose(Around 2014/15-2017) Citalopram 10mg (2018-Present - Attempted to stop taking in Aug 22, but got WD - Thought it was 'relapse') 5 months 22 from Sep to Jan Venlafaxine) Back to 10mg Citalopram -as thought would be easier to stop than Venlaxine Fast Taper off Citalopram (didn't know about WD) late June to Mid July 23. CT'd until late Sep 23, Stupidly took 3 Days 10mg fluoxetine on Dr advice, intended to taper as soon a stable. Dr said Fluox easier to taper( akathasia reaction) Stopped fluox about 26/9/23. 29/9/23.Reinstated at 2.5mg Citalopram. Holding until stable to taper off. 14/11/23 Reduced to 2.375mg because felt akathasia. Holding until stable. Link to comment
edgewater9 Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 Poppy, I too had akathasia when I started Buspar. I was on .5mg citalopram and not stabilizing so a physician prescribed it. I too stopped it after 3 days because of the akathasia. Did your akathasia continue after stopping the Prozac or did it stop? In other words, do you still have it with citalopram alone? took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
LostInCanada Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 @edgewater9 it can take 6 weeks -3 months to get the full effect of the updose so be careful. I would wait longer before an updose again. Do you remember the dose you were at when you felt good before the setback? 20 yr+ Paroxetine/ Dec2018-May 2022 20 mg/ May 2022 30mg/2022.07.28-2022.08.24 30mg to 0mg/ August 24-29 2022 10mg Prozac/2022.11.28-2022.12.04- 5mg Paroxetine/Dec 5&6/22 10mg Paroxetine/ Dec 8&9/22 10mg Prozac/ 2022.12.07 to 2023.07.01 5mg Paroxetine TAPER 23.07.02-58mgpw/4.9mgai/ 23.07.21-4.8 mg/23.07.28-4.73 mg/23.08.04-4.65 mg/21.09.23-4.58 mg/27.10.23-4.56 mg/5.12.23-4.54 mg/2.1.24-4.52 mg/9.1.24-4.51 mg/17.1.24-4.49 mg/26.1.24-4.47 mg/6.2.24-4.46 mg/19.2.24-4.44mg /4.4.24-4.43mg 8am-probiotics/9am-paroxetine, 200mg mag bisglycinate/ 1000mg Vitamin D/noon-1000 mg algae oil (500mg DHA/10mg EPA/620mg Omega 3)/5pm-75 mg DGL/200mg calcium citrate/8pm-.25 mg melatonin "... your strength will be in keeping calm..."-Isaiah 30:15 I am not a medical professional just your peer. The suggestions I give are based on personal experience and/or the well documented experience of others. Link to comment
Poppy745 Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, edgewater9 said: Poppy, I too had akathasia when I started Buspar. I was on .5mg citalopram and not stabilizing so a physician prescribed it. I too stopped it after 3 days because of the akathasia. Did your akathasia continue after stopping the Prozac or did it stop? In other words, do you still have it with citalopram alone? @edgewater9 The akathasia stopped the day after I stopped Prozac. I did not get akathasia on Citalopram until 6 weeks into reinstatement. I recall last year when I attempted to come off Citalopram (did not know about WD then and thought I was relapsing) the GP put me up from my original 10mg to 20mg of Citalopram and it made me SO ill. I had to drop to 10mg and this was ok eventually. I started to get low grade akathasia 6 weeks into the 2.5mg reinstatement the end of this September. It may have passed, but did not understand why I was reacting 6 weeks into it, other than reinstating to high maybe. None of my posts are medical advice, just my own experience. Please see your Doctor for any medical advice. Venlafaxine can't remember exact dose,normal starting dose(Around 2014/15-2017) Citalopram 10mg (2018-Present - Attempted to stop taking in Aug 22, but got WD - Thought it was 'relapse') 5 months 22 from Sep to Jan Venlafaxine) Back to 10mg Citalopram -as thought would be easier to stop than Venlaxine Fast Taper off Citalopram (didn't know about WD) late June to Mid July 23. CT'd until late Sep 23, Stupidly took 3 Days 10mg fluoxetine on Dr advice, intended to taper as soon a stable. Dr said Fluox easier to taper( akathasia reaction) Stopped fluox about 26/9/23. 29/9/23.Reinstated at 2.5mg Citalopram. Holding until stable to taper off. 14/11/23 Reduced to 2.375mg because felt akathasia. Holding until stable. Link to comment
edgewater9 Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 It is so terribly confusing with all the symptoms at different doses, I feel your pain. After reinstating at .5mg originally for 2 months I started to get unbearable anxiety all of a sudden which led me to the Buspar and akathasia. It has not been great updosing and I have felt very ill days also, but to me at this point the mental benefit and sleep outweigh the physically ill symptoms. Don't feel bad as I was at a crisis point on .5mg and having very disturbing thoughts, I had to do something different and I hope it continues to improve. LostinCanada, the last dose I felt stable at was probably around 3.5mg before I tapered off took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
edgewater9 Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 Also Poppy, I've been told that bad anxiety can also feel like low grade akathasia, I'm wondering if that's what you were experiencing 6 weeks in? It's similar to how I felt after 2 months at .5mg before I updosed, and got significantly better when I did took citalopram 20mg from 1999-2004. Stopped with no issue and restarted 20mg in 2005, took until 2020. Tapered down to 10 MG over 3 months with no issue, then began tapering way too fast setting up multiple failed tapers and withdrawal symptoms. Jumped off from 1 MG in mid July 23. Finally completely crashed on 8/8/23, unable to sleep and racing and pounding pulse at all hours of day and night. Uncontrollable panic attacks and dread with depersonalization and derealization. Found site and reinstated .5mg liquid citalopram for one week, updosed too fast to .7 mg with kindling reaction. Went back to .5 MG on 8/15 and have been there since, racing heart has stopped and sleep was returning but now has gotten way worse quickly. Now on 6mg since 10/17, updosed due to symptoms. Continued updosing and now at 1.34mg, symptoms better overall Link to comment
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