Casper: Introduction and looking for Cymbalta tapering advice

[Casper]

Background:

I’m 22 (turning 23 years next month), and been on duloxetine for 5-6 years. It was prescribed for my tics initially, and at this point I just hate this drug and want to get off.

 

2017-2021: I was on 120mg

 

2022: I decided to go off, and I tapered from 120mg to like 10mg in 8-9 months. I only recall having very few brainzaps, otherwise no withdrawals. At the last quarter of 2022 I tapered down to 0. I don't recall the tapering precisely, but I think I went from the 10mg (or maybe 5mg) to 0 in 3 months. The last dose was probably 1mg or 0,5mg.

 

2023: The following months I had crazy horrible withdrawals. Crying spells, intense nothing matters almost like serotonin didn't exist in my brain, crazy sadness.

Eventually I went back to 1mg, and the following 4-5 months I more or less had a solid level there.

 

In august to september I tapered from 0,8mg to 0,55mg, and then I got sick for a month. It was the same time where the weather changed to winter, so I'm not sure if it was side effects or maybe a combination of the flue.

I recently got healthy again, but had to go up to 0,6, and then even 0,6 wasn't enough, so now I'm at 0,65. 

 

Today:

I don't even have a dose where I feel somewhat normal. Even without side effects I can't think clear, I feel numb and everything seems unreal.

The lowest I can go in dose difference is 0,025mg, but even then I get withdrawals.

 

My situation is now that I want to get off this hell drug, but it seems impossible. So here's my questions:

 

1) I've heard people have succes with switching from Duloxetine (Cymbalta) to Procaz, would that be a good idea, and how long would I do the cross-taper over?

2) What the f*ck else do I do, when even on such small changes in dose, I still get withdrawals, and based on the last weeks, I'm going UP not down.

 

Thank you for reading! Any thoughts will be much appreciated!

[LotusRising]

Hi @Casper

 

Welcome to SA, could you please help us out by updating your drug history How to Create a Signature

 

Here at SA, we recommend tapering no more than 10% of your previous dose each month. It's possible that you've run into WD symptoms from tapering too quickly. 

 

Why taper by 10%

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

On 10/23/2023 at 10:20 AM, Casper said:

I recently got healthy again, but had to go up to 0,6, and then even 0,6 wasn't enough, so now I'm at 0,65. 

 

When did you last go up to 0.65mg?

 

FYI, if you haven't already seen this:

 

 

 

 

[getofflex]

Hello Casper, I'm sorry you are having such a difficult time getting off the last bit of duloxetine.  I'm guessing that your system is already destabilized by your previous taper, and reinstatement.  Not only that, but antidepressants, and perhaps duloxetine, are even more powerful at the low and very low doses than they are at the higher doses.  This means that it can take really long time to taper off that last tiny bit.  As @LotusRisingsaid, we need to do an exponential taper of 10% per month, meaning that we take 10% of the current dose, not 10% of the original dose.  And, some of need to go even slower.  Yes, it is a glacially slow process, and very frustrating, but it is the harm reduction method that we suggest here.  

 

If I were in your shoes, I would hold for several months at the current dose.  I would not suggest a crossover to a different drug, because once our systems are destabilized, crossing over to another drug is pretty risky.  

 

Can you please give us your drug signature, as requested?  It would help a lot if we could see information about your dosage changes.  Thank you. 

Please give us specific information in your signature about your drug history for all drugs and supplements you are on and have been on, especially for the past 18-24 months.  We only need drug names, dosages, and dates, as best you can remember.  Please read the link below for instructions.  

 

How to List Your Drug History in Your Signature

 

 

Here is some important information about how these drugs actually work.  This explains why we get symptoms from going off of these medications, and why it's so important to taper slowly and carefully, and be very cautious about changing our doses: 

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

 

[Casper]

2 hours ago, getofflex said:

Hello Casper, I'm sorry you are having such a difficult time getting off the last bit of duloxetine.  I'm guessing that your system is already destabilized by your previous taper, and reinstatement.  Not only that, but antidepressants, and perhaps duloxetine, are even more powerful at the low and very low doses than they are at the higher doses.  This means that it can take really long time to taper off that last tiny bit.  As @LotusRisingsaid, we need to do an exponential taper of 10% per month, meaning that we take 10% of the current dose, not 10% of the original dose.  And, some of need to go even slower.  Yes, it is a glacially slow process, and very frustrating, but it is the harm reduction method that we suggest here.  

 

If I were in your shoes, I would hold for several months at the current dose.  I would not suggest a crossover to a different drug, because once our systems are destabilized, crossing over to another drug is pretty risky.  

 

Can you please give us your drug signature, as requested?  It would help a lot if we could see information about your dosage changes.  Thank you. 

Please give us specific information in your signature about your drug history for all drugs and supplements you are on and have been on, especially for the past 18-24 months.  We only need drug names, dosages, and dates, as best you can remember.  Please read the link below for instructions.  

 

How to List Your Drug History in Your Signature

 

 

Here is some important information about how these drugs actually work.  This explains why we get symptoms from going off of these medications, and why it's so important to taper slowly and carefully, and be very cautious about changing our doses: 

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

 

Hey thank you so much for your response, I've done the signature.

The last month I've been going UP, due to almost instant wihtdrawals when taking a dose, so I've had to go up

I'm wondering now that I'm around 0,7mg, if being on 0,8 or 1mg maybe is good, because it seems like my balanced dose is right there - so changing to Prozac (longer half-time) would be more smooth. Although I'd probably be on a dose for some weeks or a month before going for the switch, to make sure I'm destabilized.

 

Right now I just don't even have a balanced dose, and I'm so confused because in august (refer to my signature), I had no withdrawals (only very slightly the first day after). But it was also a month where I was out alot with people and the weather was good with lots of sun.

And when I got the flue, I had very flue like symptoms like alot of coughing up slime, but that went away after like a week, and then my symptoms was being extremely fatigued for like 3 weeks.

 

So I think I might go to like 0,8mg which historically have been a balanced dose, and then switch to Prozac. But if I don't switch, I'm curious of what kind of tapering I should do. I can craft both 0,025mg, 0,05mg and 0,1mg dose reductions.

 

Again thank you for the help, it feels good that you guys are serious and dedicated to help out

 

[Onmyway]

@Casper it is possible tae what you had was Covid and it can mess up the nervous system pretty badly.  Please pick a dose at which to settle and stay at that dose in a stable way - same time every day,  same dose every day.  I agree with getofflex that stability rather than changing to prozac is likely to get you better faster.  Please stay at a stable dose for 4 weeks and we can reevaluate. You can keep up updated here. 

Omw

[getofflex]

15 hours ago, Casper said:

The last month I've been going UP, due to almost instant wihtdrawals when taking a dose, so I've had to go up

What symptoms do you have after your take a dose?  Having symptoms after taking a drug indicates an adverse reaction, not withdrawal.  If you are having an adverse reaction, it is not advisable to increase your dose.  

 

Please let me repeat,  

 

18 hours ago, getofflex said:

If I were in your shoes, I would hold for several months at the current dose.  I would not suggest a crossover to a different drug, because once our systems are destabilized, crossing over to another drug is pretty risky.  

The frequent increases in your dose may be adding to your problems, instead of helping them.  @Onmywayhas some good suggestions to stick to one dose and hold on that for a while.  

[Casper]

8 hours ago, getofflex said:

What symptoms do you have after your take a dose?  Having symptoms after taking a drug indicates an adverse reaction, not withdrawal.  If you are having an adverse reaction, it is not advisable to increase your dose.  

 

Please let me repeat,  

 

The frequent increases in your dose may be adding to your problems, instead of helping them.  @Onmywayhas some good suggestions to stick to one dose and hold on that for a while.  

 

After taking dose, I had same symptoms as withdrawals - feeling like **** basically, just sadness and dread.

 

I'm at 0,725 and I'll do my best to stay here, and don't go up any further.

[Casper]

11 hours ago, Onmyway said:

@Casper it is possible tae what you had was Covid and it can mess up the nervous system pretty badly.  Please pick a dose at which to settle and stay at that dose in a stable way - same time every day,  same dose every day.  I agree with getofflex that stability rather than changing to prozac is likely to get you better faster.  Please stay at a stable dose for 4 weeks and we can reevaluate. You can keep up updated here. 

Omw

I tested for covid twice, both negative .They also tested my lungs and infection in body, nothing.

Do you think my August Tapering Run could cause this immerse reaction? One thing I'd add is I got sick just as the weather got alot colder here in Denmark, so it was freezing outside, and I remember being like "damn I'm getting sick", and then shortly after I did. But the flue symptoms disappered after a week, and then I had his covid alike super fatigue for 3 weeks. 

 

I'll do my best to stay at this dose yes. What I'm wondering is if I'm actually capable to do 0,05mg jumps as I did in august, but stay on the dose for longer than one week.

[Onmyway]

Unless you had a PCR test it's not possible to say you didn't have covid,  most home tests are only about 75% accurate. Other viruses can have bad consequences as well. 

 You HAVE made lots of changes which may also be catching up to you in two months you have lowered your dose by 40% - these changes add up and sometimes the withdrawals can be weeks or months delayed. Every change requires the body to adapt and the body will take its time to do it. If you do the changes slowly, you will have fewer symptoms usually. If you do them faster, you will suffer more all else equal. 

 

We've given you our advice on what to do and how to taper - no more than 10% every 4 weeks - you could do a slower taper of 2.5% of your previous dose every week for 4 weeks and then hold for 2 weeks.  What you do is up to you.  YOU will bear the consequences of your decision, not us. We are telling you what we observe in thousands of people going through this. 

 

Having said that,  if you disregard our advice all the time and things get worse,  we can't bail you out. And we will not providing advice that gets ignored indefinitely - we are all volunteers and need to use our time wisely. 

 

Hope you feel better soon whatever decision you make. 

 

Omw

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Onmyway

[getofflex]

12 hours ago, Onmyway said:

in two months you have lowered your dose by 40%

This is likely to be the main cause of your symptoms now.  This is why we suggest tapering drugs only 10% per month, at the fastest.  Like OnMyWay said, it can take weeks or months for all this to catch up with you, and it can take months for this to resolve. 

 

12 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Having said that,  if you disregard our advice all the time and things get worse,  we can't bail you out. And we will not providing advice that gets ignored indefinitely - we are all volunteers and need to use our time wisely. 

I completely agree.  It's a waste of our time. 

[Casper]

23 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Unless you had a PCR test it's not possible to say you didn't have covid,  most home tests are only about 75% accurate. Other viruses can have bad consequences as well. 

 You HAVE made lots of changes which may also be catching up to you in two months you have lowered your dose by 40% - these changes add up and sometimes the withdrawals can be weeks or months delayed. Every change requires the body to adapt and the body will take its time to do it. If you do the changes slowly, you will have fewer symptoms usually. If you do them faster, you will suffer more all else equal. 

 

We've given you our advice on what to do and how to taper - no more than 10% every 4 weeks - you could do a slower taper of 2.5% of your previous dose every week for 4 weeks and then hold for 2 weeks.  What you do is up to you.  YOU will bear the consequences of your decision, not us. We are telling you what we observe in thousands of people going through this. 

 

Having said that,  if you disregard our advice all the time and things get worse,  we can't bail you out. And we will not providing advice that gets ignored indefinitely - we are all volunteers and need to use our time wisely. 

 

Hope you feel better soon whatever decision you make. 

 

Omw

 

 

Thank you guys @getofflex and @Onmyway. I'm not here to wastes any of your time, I'm HIGHLY appreciative of how guys helping. And thanks for making it even more clear that I went way too fast. During august I just continued tapering because I didn't have any withdrawals, but I guess they catched up.

 

I'm here to get help, so I'll definitely follow you guys advice with slow tapering.

I'm at 0,725mg and I can craft 0,025mg reductions, so the lowest I can go is 3,5%.

I like the suggestion of doing that every week for 4 weeks, then hold for two weeks, that's what I'll get started on soon. Unless it should be for 3 weeks (as 3,5% times 3 is 10,5%) then 2 weeks hold?

 

And if I get any withdrawal symptoms the coming weeks on this dose, I'll just hold on right?

 

P.S I took one home test, then PCR at the doctors.

[getofflex]

I wouldn't do 3.5% every week for 4 weeks, as that is 14% in a month, and still too fast.  Perhaps you could do 3.5% every 2 weeks, just to be on the safe side.  

 

13 minutes ago, Casper said:

And if I get any withdrawal symptoms the coming weeks on this dose, I'll just hold on right?

Yes,  have you worked on learning any non drug techniques for coping with withdrawal symptoms?  

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

[Casper]

16 hours ago, getofflex said:

I wouldn't do 3.5% every week for 4 weeks, as that is 14% in a month, and still too fast.  Perhaps you could do 3.5% every 2 weeks, just to be on the safe side.  

 

Yes,  have you worked on learning any non drug techniques for coping with withdrawal symptoms?  

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Right, or maybe 3,5% every 10 days, then it's almost exactly 10% in a month, or do you suggest 7% is better? 

 

A question: How does it work when I get down to even lower doses like say 0,225mg, because then I'll have 3 beeds left of 0,075mg.

 

And for coping no i havent. I exercise every day, and when I have withdrawals, I try to eat more healthy and drink lots of water, but honestly it makes close to 0 difference (only exercise help) I've had alot of days where I can't be with people or even work, because I simply can't function. Do you have any tips I can look into?

[getofflex]

5 hours ago, Casper said:

Right, or maybe 3,5% every 10 days, then it's almost exactly 10% in a month, or do you suggest 7% is better? 

You can try the 3.5% every 10 days, and if that is too harsh, then do 3.5% every 14 days.   But wait for a while, as we've stated earlier, before reducing your dose again.  Patience is the key to getting off these drugs successfully.  

 

5 hours ago, Casper said:

A question: How does it work when I get down to even lower doses like say 0,225mg, because then I'll have 3 beeds left of 0,075mg.

 

We will cross that bridge when we get to it. 

 

5 hours ago, Casper said:

Do you have any tips I can look into?

Check out the link in my prior post. 

[Casper]

On 11/3/2023 at 10:03 PM, getofflex said:

You can try the 3.5% every 10 days, and if that is too harsh, then do 3.5% every 14 days.   But wait for a while, as we've stated earlier, before reducing your dose again.  Patience is the key to getting off these drugs successfully.  

 

We will cross that bridge when we get to it. 

 

Check out the link in my prior post. 

Thanks.

 

I feel like ****, so numb, sad and actually less functional during the day. I should just stay at the dose right and grind it out?

[getofflex]

59 minutes ago, Casper said:

I should just stay at the dose right and grind it out?

Yes, if it were me, I would stay at your current dose for while, and allow your nervous system to stabilize.  It's quite possible you are still recovering from the flu you had. 

 

You could try some natural self care - taking walks outside (if you can), eating healthy foods, drinking plenty of water, do activities that are calming to your nervous system, arts and crafts are very nice for this.  Avoid alcohol and other mind altering substances, make sure you don't miss doses, and take your drugs at the same time each day, get plenty of rest and sleep.  Have you checked out the link on non drug coping skills?  

 

Here are some threads that talk about numbness and sadness.  

 

Neuroemotions

 

Numbness, Anhedonia

[Casper]

On 11/15/2023 at 11:34 PM, getofflex said:

Yes, if it were me, I would stay at your current dose for while, and allow your nervous system to stabilize.  It's quite possible you are still recovering from the flu you had. 

 

You could try some natural self care - taking walks outside (if you can), eating healthy foods, drinking plenty of water, do activities that are calming to your nervous system, arts and crafts are very nice for this.  Avoid alcohol and other mind altering substances, make sure you don't miss doses, and take your drugs at the same time each day, get plenty of rest and sleep.  Have you checked out the link on non drug coping skills?  

 

Here are some threads that talk about numbness and sadness.  

 

Neuroemotions

 

Numbness, Anhedonia

 

Yeah you're right, I'm staying on this dose. And I'll check it out, thank you.

I'm on 0,8mg. Seems like a more stable dose, and was the dose before I went on my 40% reduction month run lol. The last 4-5 hours before my daily dose though, I feel so ****, but it must be effects from that 40% reduction, because the dose it self I've been on before.

 

Btw something that's interesting to remember is like 6 months ago I jumped from 1mg to 0,8mg with literally no withdrawals, and before the reduction I had been on 0,8mg probably for like 4-6 weeks. So the time in between is soo important too.

 

Once I'm stabilized again, what's your take on switching to Procaz? I talked to a psychologist who's specialized in antidepressants withdrawals, and actually himself been on duloxetine and tapered off, so he's no stranger to the topic. He said it could work for sure, and he'd suggest doing like a 2-3 week crossover, and then hold off for a bit and then quit it, and the long tapering would do the work.

 

One thing I'm worried about is the PSSD. I really don't wanna have any permanent sexual changes, I'm a 22 year old male.

On duloxetine I haven't had any erectile issues, I actually think it have made the opposite effect.

 

But duloxetine is just so f*cking strong and heavy on me.

 

What do you think?

 

 

[getofflex]

1 hour ago, Casper said:

I'm on 0,8mg.

OK.  Please update your signature with this info. 

 

1 hour ago, Casper said:

I went on my 40% reduction month run lol.

Yes, this is way too fast for a safe, harm reduction taper. 

 

1 hour ago, Casper said:

The last 4-5 hours before my daily dose though, I feel so ****

Actually, this is a sign of interdose withdrawal.  Which makes sense, because it's half life is about 12 hours.  I suggest you may want to split your dose in half, and take it twice a day, 12 hours apart.  So take 0.4 mg twice daily.  Here is our topic on duloxetine: 

Tapering Duloxetine

 

1 hour ago, Casper said:

Once I'm stabilized again, what's your take on switching to Procaz?

We don't deal with drug switches on this site - we help people taper off of drugs.  You would have to discuss that with your doctor.  Personally, I wouldn't do it.  I've seen too many failed drug switches here. Please be careful with doctors and psychiatrists.  Their MO is to add drugs, increase drugs, switch drugs around, and with a system in withdrawal, this almost always leads to much bigger problems.  You are already on a low dose of duloxetine, which is great! You are close to the finish line.  

 

Just curious, how are you dosing it?  Are you counting beads?  

[Casper]

11 hours ago, getofflex said:

OK.  Please update your signature with this info. 

 

Yes, this is way too fast for a safe, harm reduction taper. 

 

Actually, this is a sign of interdose withdrawal.  Which makes sense, because it's half life is about 12 hours.  I suggest you may want to split your dose in half, and take it twice a day, 12 hours apart.  So take 0.4 mg twice daily.  Here is our topic on duloxetine: 

Tapering Duloxetine

 

We don't deal with drug switches on this site - we help people taper off of drugs.  You would have to discuss that with your doctor.  Personally, I wouldn't do it.  I've seen too many failed drug switches here. Please be careful with doctors and psychiatrists.  Their MO is to add drugs, increase drugs, switch drugs around, and with a system in withdrawal, this almost always leads to much bigger problems.  You are already on a low dose of duloxetine, which is great! You are close to the finish line.  

 

Just curious, how are you dosing it?  Are you counting beads?  

 

I'll update signature, yes.

 

I havent heard of the interdose before, but I think you might be on to something. Just today I've had anger attacks and agony, and it's like 6-7 hours before my dose. It's almost as it starts earlier and earlier (further away from my daily dose). I really hope this will help, I'll try it out.

 

And yes right now I take 4x 0,2mg

 

For drug switching, thanks for sharing your opinion.

 

And I want to thank you too for helping out and being so quick to reply, I appreciate it very much.

[Casper]

17 hours ago, getofflex said:

OK.  Please update your signature with this info. 

 

Yes, this is way too fast for a safe, harm reduction taper. 

 

Actually, this is a sign of interdose withdrawal.  Which makes sense, because it's half life is about 12 hours.  I suggest you may want to split your dose in half, and take it twice a day, 12 hours apart.  So take 0.4 mg twice daily.  Here is our topic on duloxetine: 

Tapering Duloxetine

 

We don't deal with drug switches on this site - we help people taper off of drugs.  You would have to discuss that with your doctor.  Personally, I wouldn't do it.  I've seen too many failed drug switches here. Please be careful with doctors and psychiatrists.  Their MO is to add drugs, increase drugs, switch drugs around, and with a system in withdrawal, this almost always leads to much bigger problems.  You are already on a low dose of duloxetine, which is great! You are close to the finish line.  

 

Just curious, how are you dosing it?  Are you counting beads?  

 

After my normal 0,8mg dose, would I wait 12 or 24 hours until taking the first 0,4mg dose?

 

And do you think this is just a temporary method (since I've been on 0,8mg before with no issues), or might it actually be a better strategy when tapering?

[Casper]

On 11/23/2023 at 1:28 AM, getofflex said:

OK.  Please update your signature with this info. 

 

Yes, this is way too fast for a safe, harm reduction taper. 

 

Actually, this is a sign of interdose withdrawal.  Which makes sense, because it's half life is about 12 hours.  I suggest you may want to split your dose in half, and take it twice a day, 12 hours apart.  So take 0.4 mg twice daily.  Here is our topic on duloxetine: 

Tapering Duloxetine

 

We don't deal with drug switches on this site - we help people taper off of drugs.  You would have to discuss that with your doctor.  Personally, I wouldn't do it.  I've seen too many failed drug switches here. Please be careful with doctors and psychiatrists.  Their MO is to add drugs, increase drugs, switch drugs around, and with a system in withdrawal, this almost always leads to much bigger problems.  You are already on a low dose of duloxetine, which is great! You are close to the finish line.  

 

Just curious, how are you dosing it?  Are you counting beads?  

 

Hey I need your help, I don't know what to do. I can't seem to find a balanced dose, but I dont know why. Every dose I'm on is good for like 5-6 days, then suddenly I get heavy withdrawals. Like crying, feeling sad, low energy, agony, angry etc. I'm at 0,875 and been no issues the last week, but now it's coming back

I can't just stay on a dose with withdrawals, it's too heavy. For context I run a small company, and I study on university too, I can't just lay in bed all day being "sick".

 

Do I just keep going up until I can stay on a dose for like 3 weeks with no withdrawals (to confirm it's the right/balanced dose)?

[getofflex]

21 minutes ago, Casper said:

I can't seem to find a balanced dose, but I dont know why.

 

21 minutes ago, Casper said:

I can't just stay on a dose with withdrawals, it's too heavy.

I don't know what you mean by this.  

 

Please go back and carefully read the advice we have given you.   Jumping around on your drug dose to find a magical dose that will make all your symptoms go away is just not going tot happen.   Withdrawal symptoms are uncomfortable, but we cannot fix them for you.  

 

On 11/1/2023 at 4:48 AM, Onmyway said:

Please stay at a stable dose for 4 weeks and we can reevaluate.

 

 

I strongly suggest you find non drug ways to deal with your symptoms.  

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by getofflex

[Casper]

On 12/6/2023 at 3:27 PM, getofflex said:

 

I don't know what you mean by this.  

 

Please go back and carefully read the advice we have given you.   Jumping around on your drug dose to find a magical dose that will make all your symptoms go away is just not going tot happen.   Withdrawal symptoms are uncomfortable, but we cannot fix them for you.  

 

 

 

I strongly suggest you find non drug ways to deal with your symptoms.  

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

 

 

 

 

The withdrawals are not just uncomfortable, they're horrible. It's crying spells, anger attacks, hateful thoughts (which is NOT nice), low energy, deep sadness, can't concentrate or think clear. I workout everyday, I sleep 7-8 hours a night, eat normal and drink lots of water, it just have like basically 0 impact.

 

But how long do you think these side effects/withdrawals are going to last?

But I guess you're right. So you believe the solution to get back on a balanced dose and stop the withdrawals, is stay on a dose no matter what, and they'll dissapear within a few weeks or so? (allowing my body to adjust, rather than going up?)

[Altostrata]

@Casper how are you measuring your doses? What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages?

[getofflex]

1 hour ago, Casper said:

So you believe the solution to get back on a balanced dose

I don't know what you mean by "get back on a balanced dose".  Please explain this. Are you taking the same dose each and every day?  When you answer my questions, and altostrata's questions, we might be able to help. 

[Casper]

37 minutes ago, getofflex said:

I don't know what you mean by "get back on a balanced dose".  Please explain this. Are you taking the same dose each and every day?  When you answer my questions, and altostrata's questions, we might be able to help. 

Yes, so what I mean with balanced dose, is being on a dose, where I don't have any side effects. So before I went down 40% in august, (and during the year), I was at 0,8mg and 1mg with no issues. I mentioned it before, but around beginning of Q2 in this year, I went from 1mg to 0,8mg (in one jump) with no side effects.

 

It's only since august, that I havent been able to stay on the same dose, without getting side effects/withdrawals.

 

I take the drug each and every day, at the same time, 5pm.

 

I have three packages of duloxetine:

20mg Loxentia = Each bead is 0,15mg (0,151515mg to be precise) : Total of 132 beads

30mg Zentiva = Each bead is 0,2mg ::  Total of 150 beads

30mg Mylan = Each bead is 0,075mg :: Total of 400 beads

 

So that's how I did 0,05mg reductions in august for example.

 

Let me know if you have any other questions

 

 

@Altostrata

[getofflex]

Have you ever skipped or missed any doses?

 

 I'll try to explain this again.  

1 hour ago, Casper said:

Yes, so what I mean with balanced dose, is being on a dose, where I don't have any side effects.

I don't believe there is any particular dose where you will feel no symptoms.  Because you reduced your drug by 40% in August, you are now experiencing destabilization in your nervous system, which causes your symptoms.  this can take many months for your nervous system to settle down, and for your symptoms to become minimal.  

 

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by getofflex

[getofflex]

1 hour ago, Casper said:

20mg Loxentia = Each bead is 0,15mg (0,151515mg to be precise) : Total of 132 beads

30mg Zentiva = Each bead is 0,2mg ::  Total of 150 beads

30mg Mylan = Each bead is 0,075mg :: Total of 400 beads

Please ask your pharmacist what the generic names are for each of the 3 items you listed above, and let us know.  I think we may be talking about 3 different drugs here.  

 

I think you may be taking 3 different drugs here.  We need to know exactly what those are.  

 

We need to know how much you are taking of each of these each and every day. 

 

1) Loxentia

 

2)Zentiva

 

3) Mylan. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by getofflex

[Casper]

12 minutes ago, getofflex said:

We need to know exactly what is your daily dose?  Have you ever skipped or missed any doses?

 

 I'll try to explain this again.  

I don't believe there is any particular dose where you will feel no symptoms.  Because you reduced your drug by 40% in August, you are now experiencing destabilization in your nervous system, which causes your symptoms.  this can take many months for your nervous system to settle down, and for your symptoms to become minimal.  

 

I'm at 1mg, and I haven't skipped or missed any, no.

I understand

1 minute ago, getofflex said:

Please ask your pharmacist what the generic names are for each of the 3 items you listed above.  I think we may be talking about 3 different drugs here.  

 

I think you may be taking 3 different drugs here.  We need to know exactly what those are.  

 

We need to know exactly how much you are taking of each of these each and every day. 

 

1) Loxentia

 

2)Zentiva

 

3) Mylan. 

 

All three of them are duloxetine.

[getofflex]

@CasperI need you to call your pharmacist, and verify this with them.  I don't see why they would give you 3 different brands of duloxetine. 

[Casper]

4 minutes ago, getofflex said:

@CasperI need you to call your pharmacist, and verify this with them.  I don't see why they would give you 3 different brands of duloxetine. 

 

It was at my own request, so I could make the differences in doses for tapering. The Zentiva is the one I've been taking during this year though (I requested the two other ones like 3-4 months ago). The reason were otherwise I'd only be able to do 0,2mg jumps, which seems too big in these small doses. I don't know how the 10% reduction/m rule fits in there haha.

 

[getofflex]

Ah, OK, I see now.  So those names are probably the names of the manufacturers.  

 

Let me ask you this:  do you feel worse in the several hours after you take your duloxetine?  

 

If you don't, then you are probably suffering from withdrawal from dropping down too fast.  Remember that there are windows and waves.  In that case, please stick with your 0.875 mg duloxetine dose for another few weeks, until you find some stability, meaning your symptoms are not too bad.  Here is what we mean by stability: 

 

Stability

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

It is not a good idea to try to frequently change your dose, looking for the dose that will take your symptoms away.  This is likely to just make things worse.  

 

Please read.  Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

Edited December 7, 2023 by getofflex

[Casper]

1 minute ago, getofflex said:

Ah, OK, I see now.  So those names are probably the names of the manufacturers.  

 

Let me ask you this:  do you feel worse in the several hours after you take your duloxetine?  

 

If you don't, then you are probably suffering from withdrawal from dropping down too fast.  Remember that there are windows and waves.  In that case, please stick with your 0.875 mg duloxetine dose for another few weeks, until you find some stability, meaning your symptoms are not too bad.  Here is what we mean by stability: 

 

Stability

 

 

It is not a good idea to try to frequently change your dose, looking for the dose that will take your symptoms away.  This is likely to just make things worse.  

 

Please read.  Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

It depends.

The last couple of months the pattern have been: I got withdrawals, then I increased my dose, and all withdrawals goes away the name night. So yes, I'd feel better after taking it. A few times I've been a bit dizzy when increasing my dose, but not too bad.

 

Some other times, a few hours before taking the dose, I'm feeling more like myself, more outgoing, alive, then I take the medicine and boom instant drowsy zombie mode.

 

Before I was tapering, I had no withdrawals ever, and could even take my daily dose +-3 hours, probably even 4-5 sometimes and feel no difference.

 

But overall I kinda hate just being on it, even without withdrawals. In january this year I was at 0mg for 3 months, by far the worst I've ever felt in my life ever due to withdrawals, like it was even more intense than now. (I was following my psychiatrist tapering advice lol). But even with all the withdrawals, there was a part of me that felt good, I slept like a baby (didnt wake up 3-4 times a night, no nightmares or dreams), my thoughts were clear again. So my point is generally I don't respond well to them, because I become like a zombie.

 

Alright damn I'll stay on this dose then, and fight through the withdrawals. I'm not a big caffeine drinker at all, but is it okay to drink some green tea (with caffeine), if some days are super tough, and I need energy to get work done?

 

Also any supplement I could take? I've l-theanin and GABA actually, but havent really taken it consistently (only tried it a few times)

[Emonda]

On 12/8/2023 at 10:04 AM, Casper said:

I'm not a big caffeine drinker at all, but is it okay to drink some green tea (with caffeine), if some days are super tough, and I need energy to get work done?

 

Go easy on the caffeine, whether that be coffee, tea, fizzy drinks, chocolate, etc. I can get away with a small amount each day, most of the time.

 

Sometimes, when my WD symptoms flare up, I cut out the caffeine completely.

 

Whilst you didn't ask directly above, avoid alcohol completely. I'm sure it's been mentioned above by someone. It's so unhelpful when tapering and dealing with WD symptoms.

 

On 12/8/2023 at 10:04 AM, Casper said:

Alright damn I'll stay on this dose then, and fight through the withdrawals.

 

That's what most of us have had to do at various times. Once stable for a good while (I waited 5 months after dropping too fast before finding this site), go super slow to keep it manageable.

 

On 12/8/2023 at 10:04 AM, Casper said:

Also any supplement I could take?

 

There are only two supplements we recommend:

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Emonda
Fixed links

[Casper]

On 12/8/2023 at 4:15 AM, Emonda said:

 

Go easy on the caffeine, whether that be coffee, tea, fizzy drinks, chocolate, etc. I can get away with a small amount each day, most of the time.

 

Sometimes, when my WD symptoms flare up, I cut out the caffeine completely.

 

Whilst you didn't ask directly above, avoid alcohol completely. I'm sure it's been mentioned above by someone. It's so unhelpful when tapering and dealing with WD symptoms.

 

 

That's what most of us have had to do at various times. Once stable for a good while (I waited 5 months after dropping too fast before finding this site), go super slow to keep it manageable.

 

 

There are only two supplements we recommend:

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Hey so an update: Since we last spoke, I went up to 1mg, and I've stayed here since then. I decided not go up any further. The first couple of days were rough, but since then I've had no withdrawals, and been functioning normal, yay. However these two weeks I've had side effects (not withdrawals), which is like an adrrr feeling in my body, somewhat dizzy, I feel my brain is a bit fried and kinda tired all day. They really suck, but BY FAR better than withdrawals.

 

I'm very confident that this is simply how my body is reacting to 1mg. Because I very clearly remember a huge difference when I went from 0,8mg to 1mg, I slept like 10 hours, woke up tired, tired all day, the fried brain feeling etc. It's like the zombie mode really activates here.

 

Anyway besides that, I've no withdrawals, and I'm functioning normally, which is great. But still really looking forward to just get to 0,8mg again, as I'm very confident these side effects will more or less disappear. So how long do you think I should be on 1mg, until starting tapering process? 

 

I also think I should make a tapering schedule, and then you guys can review it, so we have a plan together, that I can follow.

 

*One thing is yesterday I had what I'd consider withdrawal symptoms, but only yesterday, and today I'm all good. I'm still a bit confused to why it happened actually. Other than that, there's been nothing the last two weeks.*

[Onmyway]

@Casper if I were you I wouldn't change my dosage at all for a good two months.  Jumping up and down is very bad for the brain.  You may then consider Brassmonkey's taper. You need to learn to tolerate some discomfort.  If you do keep jumping up and down,  we won't be able to help you. 

 

Omw