ProofofLife: Introduction - Seeking Advice/Support

[Poppy745]

5 hours ago, ProofofLife said:

@Poppy745 When I do gain some perspective (at this time during the evening), I wonder why I'm not just on meds for life. I have always had so many issues, that I'm just not sure where "recovery" from anything leads. Like, what kind of life is this?

Hi @ProofofLife It feels that withdrawal is what stops my perspective. I feel scared right now as my anxiety has got worse over the last few weeks. In the evening I hope that this is my brain moving towards being able to find a more balanced view and closer to a normal level of anxiety. I know I had anxiety before the meds, but the meds changed it into this rumination and each time I tried to stop the anxiety got worse. I really do understand. 

[CeruleanSea]

@ProofofLife, if I may ask, were you ever diagnosed with a cyclical mood disorder? Cyclothymia or bipolar 1 or 2?

[mstimc]

11 hours ago, ProofofLife said:

@mstimc Thank you for this, I relate so much. I can't even tell what's "real" anymore. I have definitely always had health anxiety/OCD amongst other issues. I guess what makes no sense is how it's THIS bad already and I'm only on half and 3/4's of my original doses, and I haven't tapered in almost 6 months now. It makes me feel as though "this is just me" - or maybe I just haven't learned any coping skills yet? I'm not sure. I know that right now, the basic will to even get better isn't even here...

Anxious thoughts need to control almost every aspect of your life--that's the only way they maintain power.  That's why you feel you have no will to get better.  But if you don't want to improve, why did you join SA?  There is a will to recover--its just being drowned out by the ruminations, negative thinking and self-blame.  As Emma and Cerulean said, accepting the thoughts without giving them power is a very powerful coping tool in itself. Bear in mind progress will come slowly, but it will come!

[ProofofLife]

@Emma09 We are indeed, very similar it sounds like - all the way back to childhood.

 

17 hours ago, Emma09 said:

Two questions: 

- How long has this most recent "wave" been? 

- You mentioned you'd spent most days that week in bed- are you generally unable to leave? Thats okay if you are just trying to gage because some of my advice per rumination involves distraction. 

 

To answer the first question - this wave has been strange. I haven't tapered in almost 6 months now. It seemed to stabilize in the summer, but I've had a lot of life transitions and moves since then, so I planned not to taper again until I got settled, which was almost 2 months ago now. This current "wave" that I'm experiencing began about a month ago. I accidentally took another dose of my sertraline within 12 hours of my usual dose, as I was on autopilot that day and somehow accidentally took it at night after taking it that morning. I seemed to be out of the woods with that mistake after a couple weeks, only for it to return again full-force once realizing my body won't even cooperate with me enough to workout, or start the business I'm trying to (I've been coaching fitness for a decade now on and off due to my issues).

 

As for the second question - the past week I've been the worst I've been in a long time. I really haven't left bed. Even when I'm not flat-out ruminating, I have zero energy or excitement for anything in life.

 

I am well-aware I am addicted to my own mind. I think a big problem for me is that, even beneath the rumination of the taper and my "natural" state, what I'm realizing (more-so "remembering") is that I have always also shown symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder, and this is a death sentence to ever living a "normal" life, which my life shows, even while medicated. Some therapists and people online will say otherwise, but the prognosis on living an actual, functional life, even with all the therapy (which I haven't the time or money for), just isn't good long-term. So I feel like, between the mental issues, the withdrawal, and my physical issues, my life is effectively over, no matter what I do.

[ProofofLife]

@Poppy745 I'm sorry it's gotten worse for you the past few weeks - I can totally relate currently. Is it the result of a taper, or was there a significant life event?

[ProofofLife]

@CeruleanSea I am going to try an elimination diet as well. I see people have great success with carnivore - probably because it's the "ultimate" elimination diet. I figure if I can eliminate everything, I can slowly add back in and see what's doing what.

 

6 hours ago, CeruleanSea said:

if I may ask, were you ever diagnosed with a cyclical mood disorder? Cyclothymia or bipolar 1 or 2?

 

I don't have a diagnosed mood disorder, but rather I've been suspected to have Borderline Personality Disorder. No one has made an official diagnosis, as it's difficult to diagnose, has a lot of stigma, and healthcare professionals have typically moved away from these types of diagnostics in recent years, but I meet almost all of the criteria historically.

 

This is once of the reasons I'm so low - I feel that, even past the withdrawal, I have no chance of ever living a "normal" life. it can't be cured, it can be "managed", but the prognosis is pretty poor for the majority of folks, and I'm obviously battling the meds too.

[ProofofLife]

@mstimc I appreciate this reminder. I know the thoughts currently have too much power. As I just replied to @Emma09 and @CeruleanSea, I am battling this underlying anxiety disorder co-morbid with BPD since I was an adolescent. I feel hopeless due to the "personality" disorder than can't be cured, even if I get past the withdrawal. It just seems as though I'll never be "normal" or fully functional, and I think accepting that is a lot of what I'm fighting currently.

[CeruleanSea]

Good luck with whatever you try! Carnivore seems extreme, too low carb, but I can think of a few people who publicly recommend it.   
 

[ProofofLife]

@CeruleanSea Thank you, I will report anything I try that makes a significant impact. I will probably use it as a baseline to try and get to a modified Paleo diet. I know I have reactions to certain vegetables, so it probably won't be totally straightforward at least right away.

[Poppy745]

13 hours ago, ProofofLife said:

@Poppy745 I'm sorry it's gotten worse for you the past few weeks - I can totally relate currently. Is it the result of a taper, or was there a significant life event?

Hi @ProofofLife There are awful life events happening right now, but I wonder if that is the only reason. The down dose was very positive to start with and the anxiety has been difficult from CT. So it is hard to know if this is the reason as I always feel worse in morning and after taking it. It gets better throughout the day as the dose becomes less. This could just be the do with the cortisal and not the dose, but cannot say for sure. I was certainly struggling in CT, but I had better times even then. I sometimes wonder if I should have stuck with CT, but I was struggling to eat and sleep was mostly bad except for a couple of weeks in the middle. I really hope things start to improve for both of us. 

[ProofofLife]

@Poppy745 I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. So you had CT'd and then reinstated, but started getting akathisia it looks like? The mornings and afternoons seem to be bad for me no matter when I take it. I used to take it at night, but switched to the morning, and it really hasn't made much of a difference. I don't understand that at all besides assuming it has to do with the perceived expectations during daylight hours, for me at least.

[Poppy745]

56 minutes ago, ProofofLife said:

@Poppy745 I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. So you had CT'd and then reinstated, but started getting akathisia it looks like? The mornings and afternoons seem to be bad for me no matter when I take it. I used to take it at night, but switched to the morning, and it really hasn't made much of a difference. I don't understand that at all besides assuming it has to do with the perceived expectations during daylight hours, for me at least.

Hi @ProofofLife Yes ct then reinstated. Yes I started to feel akathasia after 6 weeks. I do not know if I should have waited or not, but physically the lowe dose has been better, but not the anxiety. Thanks POL. I am sorry you are enduring this stuff as well.

[ProofofLife]

@Poppy745 What was your original "diagnosis", if you don't mind me asking?

[Poppy745]

4 hours ago, ProofofLife said:

@Poppy745 What was your original "diagnosis", if you don't mind me asking?

Hi @ProofofLife The first time was because I was anxious about change. If only I had not listened to others and just given myself some time, I would have been ok. I always thought I could just stop the AD's. 

[ProofofLife]

@Poppy745 I totally understand - I was in a similar situation at a young age when I started on the meds.

 

Do you have any sexual symptoms/changes in your withdrawal?

[ProofofLife]

Hi SA Members,

 

 

I'm looking for any of you who might be able to relate to what I'm currently experiencing, whether now or previously in your tapers.

 

I've been stuck at my current dose of Sertraline for almost a year now. Throughout this time waiting to stabilize, it is apparent to me that I've only gotten worse.

 

My sexual functioning has been steadily declining for months now, to the point that I currently have very little libido and some ED symptoms. While on my SSRI, I never experienced these problems, but did experience a sort of emotional detaching from sex/love, unable to really experience much by the way of romance. This problem remains and is even worse now, along with the physical sexual symptoms.

 

I also have developed what I've only recently realized is exercise intolerance, since taking a 2 month break from the gym and attempting to go back. Previously, I was a high-level athlete and coach. I can very clearly see the pattern I've been experiencing for a while now:

 

- I do a workout - nothing crazy or excessive, just basic strength training for 40-45 min, never pushing to any type of failure.

- I feel good in the hours immediately following, then my sleep typically declines that night (wake up in the middle of the night/earlier than usual and can't fall back asleep).

- My appetite is even less than usual the next day (it's been very poor for months now in general) despite having increased my caloric demand from training.

- Around 24 hours later, I crash and experience a big surge in depression/anxiety.

 

I ask about the above symptoms, in addition to the typical depression/anxiety/fatigue I've been experiencing, with the added context that I've recently had some extensive bloodwork done which revealed the following:

 

- low free Testosterone

- low Estradiol (E2)

- low Pregnenolone

- low-end of "normal" DHT

- low-end of "normal" Vitamin B3

 

I'm currently waiting for a few more hormones/vitamins to come back. My thyroid, metabolic and lipid panels are all normal, and my Vitamin D, Magnesium, Calcium, B12, Folate, etc., are also all normal.

 

 

Given the above, here are some questions I have, for anyone who might have experience:

 

- Is it safe to say my sexual symptoms are early signs of PSSD? I am quite terrified of the permanency of this.

 

- Has anyone here successfully used TRT/HRT to assist in their withdrawal symptoms when faced with low T/E2?

 

^ I'm trying to avoid this option, as to be honest I'm afraid of hair loss as a younger guy, but I feel terrible. The exercise intolerance (and possibly sexual symptoms) is almost certainly related to my low T/E2 levels.

 

While Testosterone is obvious, Estrogen is an extremely underrated hormone in male health, especially with mood and sexual health. SSRIs directly alter estrogen; hence they're prescribed for things like PMDD in women. They also alter neurosteroids via the Pregnenolone pathway, and there's a study showing that SSRIs decrease estrogen receptor expression in the brains of fish. There are quite a few cases of men curing their PSSD all over Reddit forums by using large doses of Test/HCG to "kickstart" what could be down-regulated androgen/estrogen receptors in PSSD/PFS. I find it curious that both SSRIs as well as Finasteride both cause persistent sexual dysfunction, and the common pathway is via the endocrine system.

 

- In my situation, what would YOU do?

 

I don't feel that continuing to taper is even possible, anytime soon or even ever again, unless something radically changes. I'm in therapy, avoiding substances, and have been paying attention to my diet, but I'm getting worse. It's been a year and a half of starting my taper and I'm currently barely working. I frankly don't have the time or resources for this at this point in my life, as I'm a 33 year old male. I'm heavily considering going back up on Sertraline, but I wonder if it would even work? The obvious worst-case scenario is the possibility of an adverse reaction.

 

- If I were to intervene chemically, would I try increasing the SSRI first, and then re-assess hormones/address if needed, or would I be better off attacking the hormones? If so, would I go for Pregnenolone first, since it's an over-the-counter supplement with less sides/permanence than HRT?

 

 

Any input from some experienced members would be great. This has been a nightmare.