BenD7123: Hello... Tapering off 20mg of Lexapro

[BenD7123]

Hi All,

 

I need some encouragement/input on my current situation.  You can see my tapering info below in my signature.  I am currently back to 20mg of lexapro.  I have been on this dose for about 11 days now.  I was originally bumped up to 20mg because of a massive panic attack I had while I was on vacation in late January.  That was the most anxious I ever felt in my entire life. 

I am reaching out to see if those of you guys who have increased the dosage on your meds have had any success in doing so?  What should I expect? Will I make a recovery and be able to handle it or will I have to start a second medicine to fight off whatever I am going through?  I know the past 6 weeks have been a roller coaster for my body having a massive panic attack, going from 7.5mg to 10mg of lexapro, then three weeks later from 10mg to 15mg, and then a week later 15mg to 20mg.  My body feels like it is in a whirlwind and really needs to stabilize.  I am still experiencing anxiety with increased gag reflex, burning sensations on skin when I get anxious/nervous, intrusive thoughts, agitation (it has mostly subsided), lack of focus, and a few other things I have forgot to mention.  I am sleeping pretty well considering what is going on.  Maybe 6-8 hours a night.  The scariest part is the intrusive thoughts and the thought of what if I am stuck in this state of disarray for a long time? It seems like I can’t see the end…

 

My question is what should I expect from here on out? I know many of you have been in my shoes and can shed some light! I pray to the good Lord every day that he would take my pain away!

[Catina7]

Stability is best reached when you hold for an extended period of time.  Your doctor initially tapered you way too fast on the Lexapro.  Unfortunately, doctors do not understand safe tapering.  After that you've never stayed where you're at long enough to reach any stability because you've been constantly switching your doses around.  And starting a second "medicine" to deal with what you're going through now is certain to cause even more disruption to your nervous system.  It's good that you're getting some sleep...that's a plus.  Hopefully some other members will chime in to give you some advice, but what I've told you I've learned from simply reading through this site.  I hope things improve for you soon.  

 

 

[BenD7123]

@Catina7 thanks! I am realizing that the mornings and during the day are the worst time for me. Once 5:00 or so hits u feel almost back to normal. It happens every day. Last night I got a bad headache around 7:30 but I didn’t have any mental or physical symptoms otherwise. It happens like clock work everyday. Evenings are always best for me. I also notice that whenever I am feeling out of it and crazy, if I do something to keep my mind busy like typing this to you, it almost instantly will put me to sleep. Seems that my mind is always busy and can never stop or sit still. I am hoping I start to level out in the next few weeks as this is becoming very annoying and a hindrance. 
 

How is your tapering going? Are you managing to keep the side effects to a minimum? 

[jon1]

14 hours ago, BenD7123 said:

I was originally bumped up to 20mg because of a massive panic attack I had while I was on vacation in late January.  That was the most anxious I ever felt in my entire life.

 

Argh. This makes me so mad that a doctor did this to you. You were already on 10mg of Lexapro and it didn't work in stopping your anxiety attack, so the idea that doubling the dose would, is completely illogical. Especially when it's known higher doses are far less effective.

 

It's probably triggered me a bit because that's how I ended up on the drug to start with. I had a massive anxiety attack while away on holiday and we had to return early. I visited the doctor and said I only wanted something short-term, as I wasn't anxious all the time, just in certain situations.

 

He put me on Lexapro, saying it would take 'about six weeks' to quit, and that it was a 'very light' antidepressant. This is completely untrue, Lexapro has a lower dosage in mg than most other SSRIs, but only because it's far more potent mg to mg.

 

Lexapro certainly numbed my emotions, day-to-day things didn't bother me as much, but it didn't stop me feeling anxious at times where I'd normally feel anxious, and I still had to take other medication to get me through.

 

Apologies, my rant hasn't helped you at all, but it's shocking doctors are still doing this considering all the information that's come out about these drugs over the last couple of years.

 

 

[Catina7]

58 minutes ago, BenD7123 said:

@Catina7 thanks! I am realizing that the mornings and during the day are the worst time for me. Once 5:00 or so hits u feel almost back to normal. It happens every day. Last night I got a bad headache around 7:30 but I didn’t have any mental or physical symptoms otherwise. It happens like clock work everyday. Evenings are always best for me. I also notice that whenever I am feeling out of it and crazy, if I do something to keep my mind busy like typing this to you, it almost instantly will put me to sleep. Seems that my mind is always busy and can never stop or sit still. I am hoping I start to level out in the next few weeks as this is becoming very annoying and a hindrance. 
 

How is your tapering going? Are you managing to keep the side effects to a minimum? 

 

I certainly do hope that you level out.  It may take quite some time so be patient.  Remember:  More is not always better - more of the drug and adding other drugs.  Your body needs TIME to stabilize.  I hope you feel better soon!  

 

Thank you for asking about me.  I'm dealing with a lot of anxiety during my own taper and will hold where I'm at for a while before I taper again.  I might even have to switch to micro-tapering since I appear to be very sensitive to even 5% drops in dosage.

[BenD7123]

@Catina7 I’m sure I will stabilize eventually…. It will just take a few months. I don’t have a whole lot of anxiety like you, I just feel completely out of it and can’t concentrate. I’m not sure how some of these people keep jobs while going through this! I was much better off mentally and physically on 10mg. I assume I should stay at 20 now since I’ve been on it a week and a half? 
 

How do you usually cope with your anxiety? It seems when I get it, deep breathing isn’t as affective anymore since my nervous system is out of wack. Not sure if you’re a believer or not, but prayer can be powerful and I will be praying for you! 

[BenD7123]

@jon1 I really wish I would’ve stayed at 10mg and not went up…. I actually felt much better, but still not great, at 10mg. Now there’s always something or many things off or wrong. Patience is by best friend now! 

[Catina7]

54 minutes ago, BenD7123 said:

I assume I should stay at 20 now since I’ve been on it a week and a half

 

I'm not sure about that to be honest.  This is beyond my scope of advice that I can offer.  I don't want to give you wrong information.  

 

56 minutes ago, BenD7123 said:

Not sure if you’re a believer or not, but prayer can be powerful and I will be praying for you! 

 

I do believe that prayer is a very powerful force.  Although the Bible doesn't say God will remove each and every trial, it does give us the assurance that he can strengthen us to endure whatever tribulations we are undergoing.  

[BenD7123]

@Catina7 I wonder who would be most appropriate and well versed to ask about the staying at 20 or tapering down to 10?  At this point I am open to any suggestions lol 

[Catina7]

19 minutes ago, BenD7123 said:

@Catina7 I wonder who would be most appropriate and well versed to ask about the staying at 20 or tapering down to 10?  At this point I am open to any suggestions lol 

 

I understand your predicament.  I'm thinking that since @Emonda was the first moderator to welcome you, maybe you should ask him.  I've tagged his name in my own post, so I hope he sees it.  

[BenD7123]

@Catina7 @Emonda I hope he can shed some light!  I want to call my doctor and ask him, but I know he will just want to switch my meds or add another ssri and I am not sure if that will help. I feel like a drug addict that just stopped taking drugs except I do not crave anything haha

 

@Catina7 Were you able to keep your life together and stay working while you have been tapering and in withdrawal? 

[Catina7]

2 hours ago, BenD7123 said:

I want to call my doctor and ask him, but I know he will just want to switch my meds or add another ssri and I am not sure if that will help

 

Whatever he would suggest most likely won't be of any help.  Keep in mind that doctors are clueless when it comes to tapering and withdrawal.  Hopefully things will change one day.  In the meantime, however, stick to the advice from this site.  Also, you can read through some of the threads to help you find your answer.  You may want to review this:  https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/4244-how-long-does-it-take-to-stabilize-after-reinstating-or-updosing/

 

2 hours ago, BenD7123 said:

Were you able to keep your life together and stay working while you have been tapering and in withdrawal? 

 

Thankfully I don't have to work.  I'm very grateful for that.  

Edited March 12 by Catina7

[Emonda]

Hi @BenD7123

I've been away for a few days.

 

I've raised a question offline for the team to provide their input/assistance.

 

You've made many changes to your dose in a short period of time. When I first posted on your thread, I commented that you had tapered down too quickly. I'd suggest the same is now true for the way you've gone back to 20mg.

 

Had I seen what you were doing, I would have suggested you only increase by small amounts (less than 10%) and hold for a few weeks to reassess to give your body time to adjust. I've been where you are and increased my dose out of desperation for relief. The final time I did this, I ended up with some unpleasant symptoms - that was 10 years ago, but now I believe it was kindling.

 

If you go back to your doctor, yes, I am sure they will give you something else. Is that what you want? If it were me, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't be adding anything new to the mix.

 

Hopefully, one of the others (there are not many of us) will drop by soon and comment as to whether you just hold your 20mg or reduce slightly....less than 10%. 

 

 

[Emonda]

It would be helpful for you to go back and read my original post and the various links. There's nothing pleasant about WD and adjusting ADs. Slow is the way to go to make it more tolerable.

 

@Erimus and @Catina7 had helpful input on the changes you made to your diet and supplements.

 

Sorry to read you've been doing it tough.

 

Time and much patience are required on the tapering journey.

[Farm24]

4 hours ago, BenD7123 said:

@Catina7 @Emonda I hope he can shed some light!  I want to call my doctor and ask him, but I know he will just want to switch my meds or add another ssri and I am not sure if that will help. I feel like a drug addict that just stopped taking drugs except I do not crave anything haha

 

@Catina7 Were you able to keep your life together and stay working while you have been tapering and in withdrawal? 

Your doctor will always give you something else. If you are dealing with pain, the ONLY thing that has worked for me is heating pad, stretching and Excederin. 

[BenD7123]

@Emonda thanks for the input! I am thinking for now just holding at 20mg. I felt great on 10mg compared to how I feel now lol. It’s weird, the mornings are always the worst for me and evenings I barely have any symptoms most of the time. I work in construction and am in sales. If I am at my desk I have all the symptoms, but if I go out to a job site and work with the guys, 90% of my symptoms go away other than a slight headache and some agitation. Crazy how that works. I am hoping to stabilize some in the next few weeks once my body is back to the full strength of the 20mg since that is what I’ve been on for the past three years up to tapering. 
 

what were your symptoms when you jumped up and how long did it take for them to go away? 

[BenD7123]

@Farm24 I don’t have any pain thankfully! Mostly mental symptoms are all I have left. I do get headaches at the end of the day so I might give excedrin a shot to see if that helps. 

[Catina7]

5 minutes ago, BenD7123 said:

I might give excedrin a shot to see if that helps

 

Excedrin contains caffeine, so if it were me I'd be cautious about using this.  Just looking out for ya!

[jon1]

I echo what @Catina7 says, it’s advisable to avoid all caffeine while tapering antidepressants.

 

If I could go back and give myself advice before beginning all this, the top two most important things would be to cut out caffeine and alcohol totally and completely.

 

Caffeine increases anxiety, even in healthy people, and it appears to have a significantly more pronounced negative effect on those withdrawing from SSRIs.

 

Likewise, alcohol is an extremely unhealthy brain-damaging drug, even in small amounts, and is known to trigger waves of symptoms.

[BenD7123]

@jon1 I cut out all caffeine two months ago and I don't drink so I am good on those two things! Appreciate the feedback.

[BenD7123]

@Catina7 Thanks for the heads up! I am starting to get the headaches and need something to relieve them.  Any advice?  I get them later in the day and when I sleep and wake up in the morning, I feel fine.  

I also haven't figured out why I get the symptoms bad in the morning and then if I go work outside or on a job site and help the guys in the field(I work in sales at a construction company), I am almost symptom free, just have slight headache and some agitation.

[Emonda]

1 hour ago, BenD7123 said:

I felt great on 10mg compared to how I feel now lol.

 

WD can make you feel rotten and lead to decisions you later regret. When I feel off, I set a line in the sand...if I still feel bad in two weeks, I'll consider a very small up-dose.

 

Yes, with hindsight, it would have been best to hold at 10mg. Hold for stability, and when you next taper, stick to a maximum of 10% per month. The reductions should get smaller and smaller each month. If you feel unpleasant WD symptoms, pause the taper and wait for stability. Then, consider smaller reductions after that.

 

I'm not surprised you feel better getting outside on the tools. It distracts the mind. Physical activity helps me, too.

 

My symptoms when I jumped back up years ago? It was ten years ago, I know I immediately developed tinnitus which I still have. I was also agitated/restless from memory. I don't recall how long that stuck around.

 

Hope this helps.

[Catina7]

47 minutes ago, BenD7123 said:

I am starting to get the headaches and need something to relieve them.  Any advice?

 

Heat (like a heating pad) or ice, whichever works best for you.  

[BenD7123]

@Emonda I feel the agitation and restlessness especially when I am trying to sit still or relax.  Frustrating when you can't just sit down and relax.  

 

@Catina7 What do you guys use for sleep aids? I tried Benadryl last night and it made me drowsy and I fell asleep, but I definitely did not get as good of sleep as normal.  Tonight I am going to try Melatonin.  
When you guys can't sleep, do you stay in bed and try and fall back asleep or if you can't fall back to sleep, do you get out of bed and go do something? I am finding when I am trying to fall back asleep, I just usually get agitated and restless and it makes it worse.  I also notice that if I try and read a book or play on my phone, I can immediately start to fall asleep because my mind is busy, but I won't actually fall asleep because once I start to doze off, my mind is no longer distracted. I also get muscle jerks or spasms but only when I am falling asleep.

 

Thank you guys so much for all the help and advice! 

[jon1]

6 hours ago, BenD7123 said:

@Emonda I feel the agitation and restlessness especially when I am trying to sit still or relax.  Frustrating when you can't just sit down and relax.  

 

@Catina7 What do you guys use for sleep aids? I tried Benadryl last night and it made me drowsy and I fell asleep, but I definitely did not get as good of sleep as normal.  Tonight I am going to try Melatonin.  
When you guys can't sleep, do you stay in bed and try and fall back asleep or if you can't fall back to sleep, do you get out of bed and go do something? I am finding when I am trying to fall back asleep, I just usually get agitated and restless and it makes it worse.  I also notice that if I try and read a book or play on my phone, I can immediately start to fall asleep because my mind is busy, but I won't actually fall asleep because once I start to doze off, my mind is no longer distracted. I also get muscle jerks or spasms but only when I am falling asleep.

 

Thank you guys so much for all the help and advice! 

Referencing your earlier post about having anxiety early on that then wears off, that’s likely due to a cortisol spike.

Raised cortisol is normal in the mornings, it’s what wakes us up, but for some reason SSRIs and withdrawal mess around with our bodies ability to regulate it. So it’s very common to get an ‘outsized’ spike that is much stronger and lasts much longer.

 

The spike normally drops within a few hours, so that likely explains why you start to feel better later on. Plus movement and activity can help ‘burn off’ the cortisol remaining in the bloodstream.

 

The agitation you mentioned is another common symptom. Here, it’s often called ‘inner askathisa’. An inner agitation and restlessness. For me it feels like a very mild electric current, but it’s different for everyone.

 

You’re going to start getting annoyed with me for saying this, but as much as you can, avoid any medication.

 

Benadryl messes with brain chemicals, so can trigger symptoms as well as cause paradoxical effects if used too much. Some find it helps, but just keep an eye out for worsening of symptoms.

 

Personally I found nothing helped with my sleep. It’s something that gradually improved over time though, and some happy to say I’m sleeping very well about 75% of the time now.

 

Honestly, most symptoms just need to be ploughed through. It’s understandable to want to find a fix. I tried everything going, but nothing worked, most of it - even ‘harmless’ supplements like vitamins - made me considerably worse.

 

My recovery has been far more stable since I stopped taking anything. I just eat whole foods and stick to a balanced diet.

[Catina7]

11 hours ago, BenD7123 said:

What do you guys use for sleep aids?

 

I occasionally use a Benadryl, but not on a regular basis.  I tried Melatonin in the past, but I don't think it helped much.  You may want to review the topic about sleeping tips:  https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/25270-tips-to-help-sleep-so-many-of-us-have-that-awful-withdrawal-insomnia/

 

Hope this helps!  

[BenD7123]

@Emonda @Catina7 @jon1 I definitely get the raised cortisol in the mornings.  Usually I feel a little jittery on the inside but I do not actually shake or get actual jitters if that makes sense?  I also usually get some agitation in my head on certain spots that's probably from the cortisol spike.  I am considering starting to run in the mornings when I wake up instead of in the evening when I get home.  Running has always been my saving grace and almost like taking a SSRI.  It almost always fixed any mental issue I had until now since I am stabilizing. Now it still helps some, but not as much since my body is in a little bit of a different state lol.  

 

I will definitely not be taking the Benadryl again.  It made my sleep even worse.  Last night I took 7.5mg of melatonin and within 45 minutes it knocked me out. Got six full hours of sleep and woke up at 5:00 and was able to go back to sleep for another hour.  The issue is when I wake up, I get that cortisol spike.  I used to be able to deep breath for 10-15 minutes and it would knock me right out, but now, it is a struggle to get the deep breathing to have any effect on me especially in the mornings.  It seems like melatonin might be my saving grace when it comes to sleep because it sure does work.  

I also used to lay in bed for 15 minutes up to an hour before I left for work to try and breath and calm down and looking back, I think that only made things worse as the cortisol spike wanted me to move and I was not letting my body move so it was just building up.  

The only two "supplements" I take right now are omega 3 and melatonin.  I might try magnesium and see if that helps and has any calming affect.  

 

At the end of the first week on 20mg, I had pretty bad inner restlessness and could not keep my legs still when trying to go to bed, but now that has pretty much subsided.  I will still get some muscle twitches when I try to sleep, but those are pretty mild and easy to manage.  

My biggest hurdle to overcome now is the cortisol spikes in the mornings.  That usually triggers many other symptoms and puts me into a downward spiral for the first 3-5 hours of the day.  I know there is a tab or link on here for managing cortisol spikes, but I have not had a chance to read into it much.  I plan on doing that later today maybe.  I also notice when my cortisol is high, I get weird almost chemical-like smells in my nose occasionally which I hear is kind of normal.  I also get bad gagging reflexes when coughing or just in general in the mornings but that has improved some in the past few days.  

 

I have been keeping track of my symptoms for the past 4 days using Dr. Glenmullen's symptom tacking sheet so that will show me any small or major improvements.  I can already tell I am getting some energy back and making some improvements, but I do not want to get my hopes up just yet! Tomorrow will be two weeks since I increased my dose to 20mg and I know the first three weeks when increasing a dose can be the roughest so I am hopeful that in another week, I will see even more improvement.

 

All of you guys on here have been a true blessing! I genuinely enjoy coming on here everyday and talking to you guys! I get excited when I get an email from one of you.  I plan to pass it on and be a help to the next suffering person trying to stabilize! 

 

 

[jon1]

3 hours ago, BenD7123 said:

The issue is when I wake up, I get that cortisol spike.  I used to be able to deep breath for 10-15 minutes and it would knock me right out, but now, it is a struggle to get the deep breathing to have any effect on me especially in the mornings.  It seems like melatonin might be my saving grace when it comes to sleep because it sure does work.  

I also used to lay in bed for 15 minutes up to an hour before I left for work to try and breath and calm down and looking back, I think that only made things worse as the cortisol spike wanted me to move and I was not letting my body move so it was just building up.  

 

Yeah, one of the annoying things about withdrawal is that normal techniques for dealing with anxiety and other issues have very little, if any, effect (that's not to say they're not worth trying) because the vast majority of symptoms are physical, not psychological - even though they feel very similar.

 

Then, because the normal methods don't appear to work, we get more frustrated and worked up, which makes us worse!

 

My therapist told me to treat genuine anxiety with the usual methods, breathing, meditation, etc, but to treat withdrawal anxiety like a broken leg - as a real, physical symptom, not something that's been cooked up by my mind.

 

One thing my therapist did that was really helpful, was help identify the differences between feeling genuinely anxious and agitated and the 'fake' version caused by the drugs. For me, real anxiety starts in my stomach and moves out around my body. Withdrawal anxiety and agitation are different, it feels more like they start everywhere (that electric feeling I mentioned earlier), and my stomach doesn't feature as much.

 

I've found it helpful, as now I know to use breathing when I know I'm genuinely anxious about something, but to just accept the symptoms and try and get on with my day when it's clearly a result of withdrawal that I can't do anything about.

 

 

[BenD7123]

@Emonda @Catina7 My doc wants me to go down to 15mg since it’s only been 13 days on 20mg. I am in a psychosis state now and it’s the worst thing I’ve ever felt in my life. Unbearable. 

[Emonda]

When I reduce my dose, I stick to the 10% rule. I don't want added WD symptoms to make things worse.

[Catina7]

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time.  Since you've changed around your doses so many times, I wouldn't make any drastic changes that will further destabilize you.  If you do decide to reduce, I would do so very cautiously just to test and see how you react.  As I said before, doctors do not understand much of anything when it comes to safe tapering and withdrawal.  

[BenD7123]

@Catina7 @Emonda I appreciate the advice! My therapist suggested to try taking 10mg in the morning and 10mg at night to see if that lowers the agitation and the overall meds in my body. I might try that instead of lowering the dose. 
 

my other main concern is self harm…. Over the weekend I had a lot of bad intrusive thoughts. I am a big hunter and have 15-20 guns. I walked by one of my pistols and immediately had an intrusive thought of me hurting myself. Had the wife change the code to my safe and put all the guns in it so it can’t happen! 
 

my therapist also told me to stay off this website for a while since I am seeing all the bad and negative reactions to withdrawal. I may be taking a break for a couple weeks…. We shall see! 

[Catina7]

When you say "therapist," are you talking about your psychiatrist - the one who tapered you too fast to begin with?  

 

Do what you need to do to keep yourself safe and in a proper mindset, whatever that may be.  We're here to support you whenever you need it!  ❤️

Edited March 13 by Catina7

[Catina7]

Deleted by me.  For some reason it made a duplicate post.  

Edited March 13 by Catina7

[littlebird]

1 hour ago, Emonda said:

When I reduce my dose, I stick to the 10% rule. I don't want added WD symptoms to make things worse.

Co-signing this, my doc no longer pushes back when I saw I'm gonna go slow (which is nice). WD adds a whole new mess on top of med side effects. Thank god for this site! I would have kept jumping around as docs order.

 

2 hours ago, BenD7123 said:

My doc wants me to go down to 15mg since it’s only been 13 days on 20mg. I am in a psychosis state now and it’s the worst thing I’ve ever felt in my life. Unbearable.

Hey friend, this sounds unbearable indeed! I think I saw something on another thread about getting motion sickness at work or something? Can't speak to dosage, other than to urge caution and going slow with changes, but I hope you're taking care of yourself in the meantime while you figure this out. Your body and brain will adjust, in case any part of you was worried this was your "new normal," but for sure give it some time and say no to any activities that might get you feeling worse (if at all possible). 

 

Do you have ongoing support from your therapist for the psychosis? I haven't experienced this, would it help to talk more about what's going on for you? Hoping you feel better SOON.

[BenD7123]

@littlebird thanks for the reply! I know my body will adjust but I have a baby due in 3 months and am hoping I make some progress by then! 
 

I got the motion sickness while being on a man lift working on a roof… must’ve been the bouncing and swaying. Funny thing is I run on the treadmill every evening and I just got done and that didn’t make me sick. Weird how that works. 
 

i have support from my therapist and everyone around me thankfully. I’m not sure if I am in psychosis but it sure does seem like it. I don’t think it’s psychosis since I don’t have hallucinations or delusions, but it sure seems something like that since I don’t feel myself and have depersonalization almost. 
 

running always seems to knock the edge off the symptoms. 
 

It definitely helps when I talk about it for sure.