music321: arresting withdrawal by reinstating medication

[Petunia]

Hi music,

I merged your topics and sent you the link.

Petu.

[Petunia]

One thing that is becoming more and more clear to me when reading entries on this site and others: some of us are absolutely compelled to repeat over and over how bad off we are and will never recover. I do it too, just not in posting but to myself and when talking to some people in my life. I've gotten it a little more under control but it is still there. I am coming to understand that it is a withdrawal symptom and cannot be controlled easily.

 

I agree with this, it does seem to be the nature of withdrawal that its so overwhelming and all encompassing that its almost impossible to focus on anything else,  which can be difficult for friends and family to deal with, so its good there are sites like this where we can get some relief from this particular symptom.

 

Music, you are right that there is limited evidence of 'full' recovery, CW explained the reason for it and sadly I agree, people generally stay away once they are feeling better, when people do come back, its because they want help or reassurance with a new or recurring symptom, so that's why there is usually that lasting flavor of negativity, that's what brings people back.... a problem they want help with.

 

 

In 2010, I developed problems related to Lyrica. 

 

Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature.  Putting a short version of your drug history in your signature helps people understand your context, it appears below each of your posts. Please include all psyche drugs.  Here are instructions for how to do it:

 

http://survivinganti...your-signature/

 

The anhedonia which you are experiencing could possibly be a side effect of Prozac, antidepressants tend to blunt emotions in general.  I initially started taking Zoloft for anxiety, but soon after starting it, I experienced my first ever depression.

 

 

 I don't know of anyone that's made it past the point that I'm at now.  After all, isn't the founder of this site someone that started suffering over six years ago?

 

 

I don't know what you mean about being past the point where you are now, you are still taking a substantial dose of prozac.  Alto and several members of our support staff are now recovered.

[music321]

I put in a signature.  If you think I should change it in some way, let me know.  What concerns me is that I've been on SSRIs since I was 16.  That was 20 years ago.  There was quite a bit that I was able to "hold onto" emotionally for all of this time until my rapid withdrawal in '12.  Thereafter, it seems that I've lost function like its never been lost before.  

 

It seems common for people to lose ability while on SSRIs.  It seems like its a different phenomenon to lose ability after having come off of SSRIs.  The latter is what I'm suffering with, and I don't know if it will change for the better.

 

I originally started this thread to give hope to people experiencing the same things that I am.  I expected that within six months of starting it, I would be fine, and I would report as much in the thread.  However, this is not the case.  Hopefully, this entry will be just a stop that someone will read on their way toward reading about full resolution further down on the page.

 

If you're suffering, don't think that your situation is like mine and that you're doomed.  I happen to have several profound stressors in my life.   

 

I also try to focus on what's working out, and hope that things will get better, but it's tough.

[Petunia]

Hi Music, your signature is fine, thank you for doing that.

 

Ongoing stress can and often does make withdrawal symptoms worse than they need to be, is this stress something which will eventually resolve?  Being able to keep the nervous system calm helps to support an easier taper for most people, but that doesn't mean its not possible to taper if you do have a lot of stress.

 

If you wanted to try again, I would suggest a lower percentage cut next time.   Some people who have a difficult time with 10% cuts, can be successful by doing a micro-taper.  You may find it easier to cut by 1% - 2%, possibly more often.

 

Are you taking any medications besides Prozac?  How are you feeling now?

 

Petu.

[music321]

Although there is plenty wrong with my life, I am now gaining a more positive outlook.  I credit this to meditation/mind-body work. This has been a powerful tool in calming myself down.  It's also a starting point for looking deep within myself.  After all, it's not for nothing that we all started taking these medications in the first place.  As a hypothesis, I wonder if these medications would have affected someone with a more optimally-functioning mind/brain to the same degree that they have affected me.  Related to this, I would bet that as my outlook on life improves, my mind/brain will heal itself at an accelerated rate.  I was able to take a vacation for five days, and feel as if my life has been infused with new vigor.  As for sexual function, which was a major concern for me, it's pretty good at the moment.  It was at about 90% prior to missing a dose of medication a few days ago.  I'm guessing that it will be better in a week or so.  

 

I have a question:  The most damaging cognitive phenomenon that I've experienced has been chronic fatigue.  The chronic fatigue started many years ago, about a year after I first started taking SSRIs.  It's been debilitating.  Does anyone attribute major fatigue to the use of SSRIs, and has it improved upon cessation of SSRIs?

[Altostrata]

Good to hear you're doing better, music.

 

Fatigue can be a side effect of psychiatric drugs or a withdrawal symptom.

 

Did you also have frequent illnesses, etc. as typical in chronic fatigue syndrome?

[LexAnger]

Just to answer your question, music. I as put on lexapro for headache and my brain is harmed just as verykind else here if not more. Another note is, I suffered the most from increasing dose after a long hold for a failed initial fast taper. My major symptoms are pain related, something I refer to as needling mixed with numbness and tightness all over inculding face, head, neck, shoulder. Back.

[music321]

Here's an update and a question.

 

It's been quite a while since I've posted.  As I stated when I started, I'm going to try to keep posting until my condition corrects itself.  Between my last post and now, my libido has been stable at about 80% normal.  In the grand scheme of life (with bills, deadlines, aspirations, relationships, etc.) this is perfectly fine.  I never thought that I was "missing out" because of a 20% lack of libido.

 

On August 25th, I started taking liquid prozac.  I went from 20 mg (capsule) to 4.7 mg/day.  On October 5, I went down to 4.5 mg/day.  On October 12, went to 4.4 mg/day.  I was planning to hold steady at this level for a few weeks and see what happens.  Two days ago, I took a train ride and felt "seasick" after getting of the train.  It came and went and is with me right now.  I took a bus today, which might have exacerbated the effect.  I've felt emotionally more alive since the day of the train ride also (starting before the ride).  I almost felt too emotional.  Now, I don't know if I'm going down too quickly or not.  I'd hate to think that I might have to alter my taper because of simple motion sickness.  However, I also don't want to crash hard in a few days.  Before going to be tonight, I'm going to raise my dosage to some degree (maybe 4.7 mg/day).  Maybe I should hold there for a little while longer. 

[starburst]

Hi Music321 it sounds like you have tapered too much, am I right in saying you have gone from 20mg down to 4.4mg since August 25th? That is much more than the 10% that the site recommends. I fear that the 'motion sickness' could be one of the withdrawal symptoms caused by such a rapid taper. 

 

I am only recently new to this site and am taking the advise of those who have gone before me in trying the 10% taper recommendation and holding at the lower dose until I feel stable. Right now I am not in the least bit stable and think I am suffering protracted withdrawal from my 10mg to 5mg drop in June of this year. Withdrawal symptoms can hit quite a few months later from what I have come to understand. That is why it is so important to take the journey slowly. I know how frustrating it can be but the outcome I want is more important than the speed at which I get there. 

 

On another note, I have been reflecting on how many positives I can count in my life since withdrawing from my initial dose of 30mg. It is only on looking back at the person I used to be that I can take pleasure in where I am now. I used to sit on the computer all day, eating, lazy, neglecting the housework. Now I am motivated, moving more, exercising, losing weight and back to my finicky housewife role once again!

 

I wish you well in your journey. 

[music321]

I mis-posted.  What I meant to say was that I decreased my dosage BY a certain amount, not TO a certain amount.  Upon re-reading the post now, I realized that I was also incorrect in the amounts that I was trying to say I decreased BY.  I started at 20.0 mg.  I initially decreased to 18.8 mg, a decrease of 1.2 mg.  I started feeling poorly when I was down to 17.6 mg, a decrease of 2.4 mg from the starting dose of 20.0 mg.  So, my first decrease, in relation to my starting does of 20.0 mg my decrease was (18.8 mg / 20.0 mg) 6%.  In relation to my starting dose of 20.0 mg, my "problem dose" of 17.6 mg signified a decrease of (17.6 mg / 20.0 mg) 12%.  However in relation to my most recent dose of 18.8 mg, it represented a further decrease of only (17.6 mg / 18.8 mg)  6.4%.  

 

Right now, I am not feeling well mentally.  I feel really hot, and had a difficult time getting the math right in the previous paragraph.  My mistake was thinking that the initial decrease of 6% was completely fine.  In reality, I doubt that the additional decrease of 6.4% caused the problems.  I think that my problems are the result of the original decrease, and simply didn't show up until a little over a month in.  

 

Right now, I'm back to 18.8 mg, and have been since the night of my last post.  I'll update all of this in my signature some other time.  

 

As for the rate at which people should taper of the meds, I've known others to taper far more quickly than 5% a month, and they've been fine.  However, this site is for those of us that either have problems tapering off, or want to avoid problems in tapering off.  I don't know where the amount of 5% was derived from, but I'm confident that whoever came up with it knows more about reduction in dosage than I do, and probably compared many anecdotal accounts.

 

Having gone through this before, and having experienced quite a bit of hell, I'm not too worried this time around.  I plan to take 18.8 mg before I go to bed, along with half a glass of wine to calm my nervous system down a bit.

[starburst]

Thank you for clarifying that Music321 and believe me, your math is a lot better than mine!

 

I'm not sure where the 5% taper came from but I'm pretty sure that Dr Breggin introduced the 10% rule although don't quote me on that because I am renowned for getting people's names mixed up!!

[Cooper]

This is a great thread and has bought me renewed hope after my recent too quick taper, and severe WD symptoms. Music, I feel the pain you have been through and admire your courage having read through your posts over the last couple of years or so, please keep posting as your story really is of profound help to those of us(like me) who are at the start of this painful journey. Thanks, cooper

[music321]

I've decided to post an update.  As I mentioned, it's my intent to update this thread until I am healed, even if there might be gaps of quite a few months between posts.  

 

I am currently tapering off Prozac with the help of my psychiatrist.  The first method I used was to take my script to a compounding pharmacist, and have non-standard doses made up.  For example, I started to taper off while on 20 mg capsules, and had the compounding pharmacist make up 19 mg capsules.  This route proved expensive and complicated with regard to billing.

 

I then received a script for liquid prozac.  I was able to buy a graduated cylinder, and measure very precise amounts of liquid prozac with it.  Each line on the graduated cylinder that I have (there are different kinds with different measurements) is eqaul to 0.4ml.  Every ten days, I have been decreasing by 0.4ml.  The good news is that my withdrawal symptoms are minimal, if existent at all.  I'm currently on 11.2 mg of prozac.  Sexual function is good enough, though not what it once was.  This is a non-issue for the most part.  Sexually, I can perform well physically, but don't have the interest that I once did.  I only develop sexual desire every week or so.  As I said, this is good enough.

 

I suffer from a pain disorder.  Everything I have read by the likes of John Sarno, etc., states that to resolve the issue, I must focus on my emotions, and purge the negative emotions.  Unfortunately, I'm emotionally numb, aside from a feeling of general negativity.  If I were able to connect with my emotions and cry, I could purge the negative ones.  I enjoy music only every few days.  I often feel emotionally detached from it.

 

At this rate, my tapering will go on another 280 days.  Unfortunately, as I get to lower amounts, I'll most likely have to taper at an even slower pace.  I would not be surprised if it took me another year and a half to get off this stuff.  I'm also worried that the emotional blunting will be permanent.

 

What's so terrible about all of this is that I feel that my pain disorder will be with me until I'm off of this stuff.

 

Best of luck to everyone.

 

Edit:  I would update the signature section at the bottom, but after poking around a little, I don't know how.  Maybe next time I'll get to it.  I see that it's been eleven months since my last post.  Hopefully in 11 more, things will be all the better.

 

I had mentioned problems decreasing in my last post.  This was likely due to user error.  I cleaned the graduated cylinder after every use.  A little bit of residual water was in the bottom, and threw off the measurement, causing me to take 0.1-0.2 ml less than I thought I was taking.  I've since corrected the mistake.

[nz11]

To edit sig go to the top right of the screen and click on your name then click on settings the on the left hand side click on signature.

im glad you have no wdl symptoms you have certainly been very wise in your tapering.

 

Dropping 1.2 mg every 30 days from here on in  may soon prove to be far too quick i'd follow the sa method of taking a % of previous dose so that each successive drop gets smaller.  

This may (or may not) mean several more years to go...but if you are stable then time will fly bye.

280 days to go sounds very quick to me.

 

What does your pdoc have to say about your tapering? clearly he seems open for you to drive this.

 

Well done on getting this far.

[music321]

Thanks for posting regarding the sig.  I see that I had issues regarding the sig over a year ago, also.  If I had looked over previous posts, I would have seen the solution.

 

My psychiatrist, though very kind and helpful, is clueless regarding discontinuing meds.  When I first dropped from 20 mg to 19 mg and had problems, I had asked the psychiatrist to write a script of 19.5 mg that I could take to a compounding pharmacist.  She refused.  She said that she was essentially humoring me by writing a script for 19 mg in the first place.  She thought that decreasing by 0.5 mg/month was ridiculous.  Originally, she wanted me to decrease from 20 mg, to 15 mg, to 10 mg, to 5 mg, to zero.

 

As for the time it takes me to get off, there are larger issues at play.  I don't feel that I'll make much progress with my chronic pain disorder while my emotions are flattened.  This translates into major life problems.

[nz11]

I know from experience that if you trigger full blown wdl it will manifest into one all consuming daily relentless brutal long lasting and inescapable problem. Emotions will morph  from flattened to a neurological horror show.

I dont want to belittle your pain issues and dont know your situation but simply want to say be careful i would hate to see the great work achieved so far evaporate because you were in a hurry.

[ChessieCat]

Have you seen these topics?

 

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

[music321]

Thanks for the suggestion regarding taking it slowly.  I certainly won't go any faster than I'm currently going.  As for "talking to a Dr. about withdrawal", I've been down this road.  On one occasion, I even went so far as to bring in literature from a peer-reviewed journal.  The doctor misinterpreted the results.  Answers to questions about lingering withdrawal symptoms are usually along the lines of "I've seen a lot of patients, and I haven't seen (side effect) before."  Or, the answer is "OK, I believe there is a problem, but I don't know what to do about it".  At least with the MD I'm seeing now, I have the ability to taper at a slow rate.  Ideally, I would have an MD decide for me, based upon my needs, how quickly I should go.  I don't have this, though.  I just have to do things as best as I can.

[nz11]

Music what do you think of the idea of going slower than your current rate here on in.

 

Doctors are just so clueless arent they.

[ravijaua]

I understand why he put decreased by, when I reduce my pexeva it is easier to say I reduced by this dosage because I measure what I cut rather than what I take.

[ravijaua]

By the way you don't need a compounding pharmacy. You could have tapered with capsules, you empty out each Prozac capsule, buy now foods vcaps or gel caps and measure out your required amount. It's very easy. With liquid you can use 1 mL syringes rather than a graduated cylinder. If you go to fast, the symptoms will catch us with you LATER>

[music321]

Update:

 

I started taking fish oil.  This has reacted with the Prozac to give me minor serotonin syndrome.  I'm trying to stabilize before any further withdrawal.  As far as being stable and having time fly by, I feel like a zombie.  It would be great to enjoy music, sex, anything at some point within the next few years.

[scallywag]

How much fish oil did you take, specifically the EPA and DHA amounts, and for how many days?

 

What were your symptoms of serotonin syndrome?

[music321]

I need some help.  I was told by a doc to take Omaga-3 containing fish oil.  I had no idea that it would interact with SSRI meds.  I was told to take 6,000 IU/day for "anti inflamatory" effects.  I was told to work my way up slowly.  For a few weeks (or maybe a month) I took 1,000.  For about 2 weeks, I took 2,000.  I started to have vivid dreams, yet thought of this as harmless.  I woke on a few occasions with closed-eye hallucinations.  I didn't realize that it was a result of fish oil.  I just thought that it was some random Prozac issue.  

 

I took 3,000 for two days.  On day two, I awoke feeling intense burning sensations throughout my body.  I felt nausea in the morning.  I called the doctor, whose advice was useless.  I ceased fish oil and Prozac for three days until things started to calm down.  I reintroduced prozac at 10% less than I had been taking it.  The next night, I went to 5% less than pre-syndrome dose.  I stayed at this does, 11 mg, for over a week.  Things were getting better.  Things started to get worse.  I went back to pre-incident dose (11.2 mg) yesterday, but was experiencing burning, etc. last night.  I haven't felt that great today either.  I don't know if I should reintroduce 1,000 omega-3, or just anticipate a crash.  I just don't know what to do.  thanks.

[LexAnger]

interesting observation about fish oil and burning pain. Burning/firing allover has been one of my worst symptoms ( seems a side effects from the Lexapro reaction by updosing). Is this the first time you ever got the burning? Is it the first time you ever took fish oil? If not have you had the burning before? You stopped both fish oil and Prozac together for three days then things ( burning?) got better, which makes guessing difficult as the two are confounding.if I understand you correctly, the burning was less while you were at zero/ lower dose, but the burning was bad /back when you were at higher dose ( the pre- dose)?