Iggy131313 validation is imminent

[Emphyrio]

I wholeheartedly agree with Dalsaan's post above.  It seems you are constantly self-medicating with alcohol, cigarettes and weed, and I can understand wanting to get relief.  But it is quite possible that there is some rebound from these which could even be delaying the recovery process.  In other words, there may be some short-term relief but you may be paying for it later.  By continuing to mess with your neurotransmitters this way you could be making it more difficult for your brain to rebalance itself.  However, it seems you have been advised this many times here and have not been very receptive, so all I can do is send my hopes for improvement for you soon.

 

I agree with the above post. I believe that alcohol is responsible for a lot of my issues - from the initial OCD diagnosis 10+ years ago, to compounding my protracted withdrawal today. Alcohol affects a number of neurotransmitters - acting as a positive allosteric modulator of GABA A and as an NMDA antagonist (also some calcium channel blocking in there too). Just like benzos, it downregulates GABA over time - meaning a bigger 'hit' of glutamate when it wears off. Excess glutamatergic activity is linked to akathisia.

 

I have akathisia - while some of it stems from the original SSRI withdrawal, I have worsened it through the use of alcohol - I therefore believe that my akathisia is linked somewhat to disrupted NMDA channels. Last autumn I gave up alcohol for 6 weeks - I felt much better because of it, however, because I felt better I started drinking again - I consumed a lot over Christmas. And I am paying the price for it now. 

[Iggy131313]

thanks emph for that, and I *am* listening to you all I really am...but one thing i have learned through this (errr shall i call it an experience? the decent experience) is to trust my instincts on things...I truely belive that one glass of wine every few days is not hurting me, i know plenty of people who used the occasional benzo and recovered.....I know you all understand this, but, for me, its not a case of its been 6 months hang in there...its early days...

 

Its been 3 years, 3 years of the most intense suffering, and I didnt touch a drop of alcohol until october last year when i went on my first date with my boyfriend (by the way, its not like i was out and about to meet this man, he was the plumber to came to fix my heating) and up until now, drinking wasnt helping my symptoms, becasue basically i was doing well enough not to need anything....yes i had severe akathisia some days, but it was transient and i always knew why....

 

but since this setback with the ibuprophen, so many symptoms reappeared, and the severity returned, when i have one glass of red wine, they go, they just vanish.....the need for relief is so strong, i think i cant be blamed.....i cant help it....i try to have a glass of wine on every 4th day.....as i feel thats what i would call ''damage limitation'' i also hope that no downregulation or desensitisation will happen if i keep it as steady as that....

 

I just want to talk about (and remember this thread is for my own benefit it keeps my ideas and research in the same place and if anyone is interested in the research i have done then its all here) why i would have all these symtpoms that i usually get from too much serotonin, when making an accidental DROP in the dose i take....this through me, how would I get the akathisia and terror from a drop???

 

I know for a fact that too much serotonin gives me akathisia.....fish oils, full moon, the week after my period when estrogen is rising, and especially when i got that new more potent bottle of citalopram all resylted in the same thing, the akathisia....so how could a REDUCTION or a fluctuation in levels in my brain cause the same?? and I have my answer which, in turn, answers 2 questions I have been asked

 

''what does your akathisia feel like, can you describe it?''

 

and

 

''could this be related to the gaba/glutamate imbalance''

 

my akathisia is all about norepinephrine.....it feels like the most intense torturous aggitation its possible to feel, I cant pin point it to a certain location (although if I had to I would say vagus nerve/chest) but its in my SOUL.....its like being buried alive, I cant speak, its all onsuming aggitated horror....i wish I could describe it, one second of feeling it makes me want to die...NEED to die, self harm, make it stop.......

 

when my akathisia starts to die down, or indeed when it starts to ramp up (and I mean over days and weeks not in the moment) it will become SEVERE TERROR...this has held true always, they are 2 different feelings like chocolate and vanilla.....but they are the same thing on different levels, the severe terror which is also all consuming, has no basis in thought, my thought processes are normal, but my body and brain are in a constant state of terror, flight or fight, but i mainly freeze....it also comes with waves of panic, dread and greif and they flood over me in waves, constantly, constantly......delightful

 

norepinephrine

 

I put my theory to the test last year, when i was in a constant akathisia wave, it was 24/7 relentless at a severity of 10/10 for 4 months, and only after that did it turn to the terror....but while it was akathisia I tried taking a puff of my cortisol inhalor that i would usually avoid like the plague...yep it took the aka away for around 60 seconds and then it came back (cortisol interupts norepeniphrine and allows dopamine to build)

 

so the reason I have the same kind of reaction to dropping the dose now makes sense..........serotonin is an inhibitor of NE now, if i raise serotonin which blocks dopamine I get akathisia......if I lower serotonin too much it stops inhibiting the NE and dopamine cannot build, its the same result of 2 different scenarios, both not allowing dopamine to build and resulting in akathisia and terror and pgad

 

and heres where the wine fits in, emph, Im sure you are right about glutamate, and its a hell of a chemical, but glutamates dont do me any harm.....i can consume buckets of bone broth, PAKED with free glutamates and it has no ill effect....the only time I have reacted strongly to glutamate was when I reheated a dominos pizza.....this resulted in a one day hell fest, but i belive this was becasue histamine potentiates glutamate at the receptor site......im fine with dominos pizza, but reheating it after it had histamined itself up overnight sent me into hell....but it was not akathisia, it was different

 

gaba stops norepenephrine in its tracks......and thats what I belive is going on, the wine stops basically ALL symptoms, as it interupts NE and allows dopamine to build.......and of course it also causes dopamine to rise itself, its a double whammy, and it is my greatest tool.......crying, singing, talking filth, pain, and now a glass of wine...these are the things that help me, oh and occasional weed use

 

now, muddles, you are wrong about one thing, your not more damaged than others, you seem to think there is no hope, thats totally wrong, nor is it any of the terribly scary things you are coming across.....firstly, Healy never said you lost the ends of receptors, he talks about nerves endings etc, and to be honest healys a bloody quack, hes stabbing about in the dark without doing any research...dont get me wrong, without him I would not have had the vallidation and i wouldnt be getting my benefits, I am eternally grateful to him for these things, but that said, he is the one person in a position to help, and yet is more interested in promoting his books and saying all hope is lost, pssd is permenant, all this could be permenant, lets all get together and slag off big pharma and would you like me to sign that book for you

 

the only time he reponds to my emails is when he asks me to try a drug, which on looking at I can see no reason it would help and when i see akathisia as a side effect, I balk............now, I know a few people who have taken part in his drug trials, and they have been damaged further...he is stabbing away in the dark instead of conducting a research plan that could work.......but he wont listen....ahhhhhhhhh david, your so very attractive and so very intellgent, and i liked speaking to you, now if I buy a full set of books would you listen to me please?

 

Muddles....you talk about how you have no serotonin and dopamine, but you have emotional anathisia, your not the first and you very sadly wont be the last.....I can  have 20 severe symptoms and a glass of wine wipes them ALL out....cant you see how a problem can be so very complex but have an easy answer? may I ask you...when do you get worse in your cycle? when is the best time in your cycle? For me I get worse half way through my period....it continues to worsten until around ovulation....it can stay very bad for a few more days and my best time is the 3 days before my period.....how about for you?

 

you never answered about the histamine issues, are your allergies worse now?

 

so update on me, yesday was great, i was basically fine all day, another kickback from the wine, I get a double whammy in that way too.....the glass of wine gabas me up and takes the symptoms away...and the next day dopamine is high due to the 'hangover' effect (its not a hangover from one glass of wine, or 2, but dopamine is higher in the brain the day after drinking) even on the occasion I have got really drunk, I have never ONCE had a hangover, just felt much better....so hangovers must be some kind of depletion of serotonin somewhere along the way.....

 

anyways.......yesterday was ok, i ramped up some at 5/6 as always but i got through with my positive self talk and listing tools to help me in my head, reading a few emails from people who help me, things like that...and was able to lie on the SOFA in the evening, I swaer, I lay there thinking LOOK AT ME, IM LYING ON THE SOFA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Today I get my son back fromm his dads, Ive missed him so much for the past 2 days, Im gonna take him to the supermarket (which he will have a major melt down about) and then sit and play lego star wars on the xbox....he has a big modelling shoot with a big supermarket in the uk here tomorrow (every little helps) modelling school uniforms for in store displays, this will give me enough squirts of dopamine to get me there tomorrow, im so very proud of him....

 

so still have a boyfriend, getting somewhere with my son, and i fell comforted now understanding the NE link to why my symptoms increased on reduction....my plan now is

 

try to not drink but know its there......have one bit of weed every 4 days to stop the awful rebound and help my symptoms, to stay steady on my dose now for another 2 months and then make a small reduction....Im on 0.40 now, I will drop to 0.39, I will then drop every 4 weeks until I reach 0.35 and then hold for 6 months again...im in no rush, I will spend the rest of my life coming off this if I need to....when the symptoms are severe I can research, I can use my tools, when they are less severe I go into self preservation, I know its easy to get angry when people go away when they feel some better....but the worng stimuli for me can bring the symptoms back....its not that I dont care, I MUST protect myself, and no more ibuprophen, no more fish oil, i have an alarm on my phone so we have NO more missed doses.....and be careful with the dropping........if anyone has any questions go ahead and ask, Im speculating, im guessing, but someone has to right?

 

If it hadnt been for alto doing so much research we wouldnt have the knowledge we have now.......Im no scientist, but i have a brain, (damaged) and i have the drive to find out what could possibly have happened....

[Iggy131313]

oh, and thankyou alto, I darent use my PMs, Ive had distressing ones that say im the worst ever case they have read about etc, it can send me under so i dont use them...but isee your point so thanks for pointing thaty out...

 

and muddles, the detoxing, the mercury, red herring after red herring,  ive been down that rabbit hole.......

[WinningThrough]

uld I get the akathisia and terror from a drop???

 

I know for a fact that too much serotonin gives me akathisia.....fish oils, full moon, the week after my period when estrogen is rising, and especially when i got that new more potent bottle of citalopram all resylted in the same thing, the akathisia....so how could a REDUCTION or a fluctuation in levels in my brain cause the same?? and I have my answer which, in turn, answers 2 questions I have been asked

 

''what does your akathisia feel like, can you describe it?''

 

and

 

''could this be related to the gaba/glutamate imbalance''

 

my akathisia is all about norepinephrine.....it feels like the most intense torturous aggitation its possible to feel, I cant pin point it to a certain location (although if I had to I would say vagus nerve/chest) but its in my SOUL.....its like being buried alive, I cant speak, its all onsuming aggitated horror....i wish I could describe it, one second of feeling it makes me want to die...NEED to die, self harm, make it stop.......

 

when my akathisia starts to die down, or indeed when it starts to ramp up (and I mean over days and weeks not in the moment) it will become SEVERE TERROR...this has held true always, they are 2 different feelings like chocolate and vanilla.....but they are the same thing on different levels, the severe terror which is also all consuming, has no basis in thought, my thought processes are normal, but my body and brain are in a constant state of terror, flight or fight, but i mainly freeze....it also comes with waves of panic, dread and greif and they flood over me in waves, constantly, constantly......delightful

 

norepinephrine

 

I put my theory to the test last year, when i was in a constant akathisia wave, it was 24/7 relentless at a severity of 10/10 for 4 months, and only after that did it turn to the terror....but while it was akathisia I tried taking a puff of my cortisol inhalor that i would usually avoid like the plague...yep it took the aka away for around 60 seconds and then it came back (cortisol interupts norepeniphrine and allows dopamine to build)

 

so the reason I have the same kind of reaction to dropping the dose now makes sense..........serotonin is an inhibitor of NE now, if i raise serotonin which blocks dopamine I get akathisia......if I lower serotonin too much it stops inhibiting the NE and dopamine cannot build, its the same result of 2 different scenarios, both not allowing dopamine to build and resulting in akathisia and terror and pgad

 

and heres where the wine fits in, emph, Im sure you are right about glutamate, and its a hell of a chemical, but glutamates dont do me any harm.....i can consume buckets of bone broth, PAKED with free glutamates and it has no ill effect....the only time I have reacted strongly to glutamate was when I reheated a dominos pizza.....this resulted in a one day hell fest, but i belive this was becasue histamine potentiates glutamate at the receptor site......im fine with dominos pizza, but reheating it after it had histamined itself up overnight sent me into hell....but it was not akathisia, it was different

 

gaba stops norepenephrine in its tracks......and thats what I belive is going on, the wine stops basically ALL symptoms, as it interupts NE and allows dopamine to build.......and of course it also causes dopamine to rise itself, its a double whammy, and it is my greatest tool.......crying, singing, talking filth, pain, and now a glass of wine...these are the things that help me, oh and occasional weed use

 

now, muddles, you are wrong about one thing, your not more damaged than others, you seem to think there is no hope, thats totally wrong, nor is it any of the terribly scary things you are coming across.....firstly, Healy never said you lost the ends of receptors, he talks about nerves endings etc, and to be honest healys a bloody quack, hes stabbing about in the dark without doing any research...dont get me wrong, without him I would not have had the vallidation and i wouldnt be getting my benefits, I am eternally grateful to him for these things, but that said, he is the one person in a position to help, and yet is more interested in promoting his books and saying all hope is lost, pssd is permenant, all this could be permenant, lets all get together and slag off big pharma and would you like me to sign that book for you

 

the only time he reponds to my emails is when he asks me to try a drug, which on looking at I can see no reason it would help and when i see akathisia as a side effect, I balk............now, I know a few people who have taken part in his drug trials, and they have been damaged further...he is stabbing away in the dark instead of conducting a research plan that could work.......but he wont listen....ahhhhhhhhh david, your so very attractive and so very intellgent, and i liked speaking to you, now if I buy a full set of books would you listen to me please?

 

Muddles....you talk about how you have no serotonin and dopamine, but you have emotional anathisia, your not the first and you very sadly wont be the last.....I can  have 20 severe symptoms and a glass of wine wipes them ALL out....cant you see how a problem can be so very complex but have an easy answer? may I ask you...when do you get worse in your cycle? when is the best time in your cycle? For me I get worse half way through my period....it continues to worsten until around ovulation....it can stay very bad for a few more days and my best time is the 3 days before my period.....how about for you?

 

you never answered about the histamine issues, are your allergies worse now?

 

so update on me, yesday was great, i was basically fine all day, another kickback from the wine, I get a double whammy in that way too.....the glass of wine gabas me up and takes the symptoms away...and the next day dopamine is high due to the 'hangover' effect (its not a hangover from one glass of wine, or 2, but dopamine is higher in the brain the day after drinking) even on the occasion I have got really drunk, I have never ONCE had a hangover, just felt much better....so hangovers must be some kind of depletion of serotonin somewhere along the way.....

 

anyways.......yesterday was ok, i ramped up some at 5/6 as always but i got through with my positive self talk and listing tools to help me in my head, reading a few emails from people who help me, things like that...and was able to lie on the SOFA in the evening, I swaer, I lay there thinking LOOK AT ME, IM LYING ON THE SOFA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Today I get my son back fromm his dads, Ive missed him so much for the past 2 days, Im gonna take him to the supermarket (which he will have a major melt down about) and then sit and play lego star wars on the xbox....he has a big modelling shoot with a big supermarket in the uk here tomorrow (every little helps) modelling school uniforms for in store displays, this will give me enough squirts of dopamine to get me there tomorrow, im so very proud of him....

 

so still have a boyfriend, getting somewhere with my son, and i fell comforted now understanding the NE link to why my symptoms increased on reduction....my plan now is

 

try to not drink but know its there......have one bit of weed every 4 days to stop the awful rebound and help my symptoms, to stay steady on my dose now for another 2 months and then make a small reduction....Im on 0.40 now, I will drop to 0.39, I will then drop every 4 weeks until I reach 0.35 and then hold for 6 months again...im in no rush, I will spend the rest of my life coming off this if I need to....when the symptoms are severe I can research, I can use my tools, when they are less severe I go into self preservation, I know its easy to get angry when people go away when they feel some better....but the worng stimuli for me can bring the symptoms back....its not that I dont care, I MUST protect myself, and no more ibuprophen, no more fish oil, i have an alarm on my phone so we have NO more missed doses.....and be careful with the dropping........if anyone has any questions go ahead and ask, Im speculating, im guessing, but someone has to right?

 

If it hadnt been for alto doing so much research we wouldnt have the knowledge we have now.......Im no scientist, but i have a brain, (damaged) and i have the drive to find out what could possibly have happened....

[Iggy131313]

lol, hon, you just quoted my whole post with no response!! hahaha

[btdt]

 

I wholeheartedly agree with Dalsaan's post above.  It seems you are constantly self-medicating with alcohol, cigarettes and weed, and I can understand wanting to get relief.  But it is quite possible that there is some rebound from these which could even be delaying the recovery process.  In other words, there may be some short-term relief but you may be paying for it later.  By continuing to mess with your neurotransmitters this way you could be making it more difficult for your brain to rebalance itself.  However, it seems you have been advised this many times here and have not been very receptive, so all I can do is send my hopes for improvement for you soon.

 

I agree with the above post. I believe that alcohol is responsible for a lot of my issues - from the initial OCD diagnosis 10+ years ago, to compounding my protracted withdrawal today. Alcohol affects a number of neurotransmitters - acting as a positive allosteric modulator of GABA A and as an NMDA antagonist (also some calcium channel blocking in there too). Just like benzos, it downregulates GABA over time - meaning a bigger 'hit' of glutamate when it wears off. Excess glutamatergic activity is linked to akathisia.

 

I have akathisia - while some of it stems from the original SSRI withdrawal, I have worsened it through the use of alcohol - I therefore believe that my akathisia is linked somewhat to disrupted NMDA channels. Last autumn I gave up alcohol for 6 weeks - I felt much better because of it, however, because I felt better I started drinking again - I consumed a lot over Christmas. And I am paying the price for it now. 

 

hmmm so you drink when you feel bad and your drink when you feel good.... 

 

just pointing that out... 

 

and both has a bad effect on your healing and your life...

 

you may want to ponder this. 

[Iggy131313]

thats not me btdt.....that was emph, I drink wine atm to relieve the symtpoms, before that i had only the odd half a shandy and non alcoholic beers and wines

[WinningThrough]

Oh no, sorry! I hit post by mistake! I was trying to select just part of the above and write something and in the process I managed to post a whole chunk instead! So sorry. Doh.

 

I just wanted to say thank you for answering my question about how your akathisia feels. I admit I asked for selfish reasons. I have akathisia and it's helpful to know how it manifests for others so I know I don't have some bizarre form that no one else has!! I think all of us think we have something no one else does! I guess that's a symptom in itself!

 

You described it well and that is how it feels and I have the 24/7 version too. The terror co-exists with it. Im still waiting for a break from it. I did have a week recently where the bodily akathisia dropped down lower and the mental symptoms were much improved so that's a really good sign. I also had one evening a few weeks back where it felt as if the akathisia in my legs was trying to stop.

 

Does yours make you constantly have to move your legs, feet and hands to try to get away from it? Do you feel a compulsion to move all the time? Sorry for the questions. I just want to know whether others feel it in the same way I do. I'm sure they do.

 

Anyway, sorry for making this about me. This is your thread and I shouldn't do this but it does really help to find someone with a similar symptom and to know that they've had improvements with it.

 

It's helped me a lot to know that the intensity of yours has dropped down at times and that you've had akathisia free days. It really helps me because it shows what's possible. It also helps to know that you had loads of symptoms and most of them went. I know you're having a return of the symptoms at the moment so it's probably not helpful to hear me say that but it does help me to know you had big improvements. I have shed loads of symptoms as so many of us do and I think a lot of what you've described in the past is very similar to how I am. Looking at the improvements you've had I see further evidence that we all get better in time.

 

I hope this setback passes for you soon and you start to stabilise again.

 

Thank you.

[Iggy131313]

you have classic akathisia my darling, it will go away....it will 100% go away and the relief will be astounding

 

you know the weirdest thing of all??? when you start to improve, feeling normal and being normal, comes back so NATURALLY, like its always been like that, that will happen for you, and you will distract and survive until you get there...

 

does your akathsia get worse at any time of day? mine will get worse at 2.30pm then worse again REALLY bad around 4.30-6.30 and sometimes worse again at night

[WinningThrough]

Thanks Iggy. It really helps me to hear you say that. Thank you.

 

I can imagine how, when it's better, it can feel like it's always been that way and that is something great to look forward to. In my murky partial windows, I feel a lot more hopeful and have sometimes felt that if I suddenly got better, it would feel like no time had passed at all! I hope it will be like that. A bit like when you've had really bad flu and it feels like it will never go and then it does. And when it does, you forget you even had flu. Obviously this is rather more extreme!!! Lol.

 

My akathisia doesn't really have times of getting worse or better. It's always been a beastie with random times when it's even more of a beastie than usual. I do have hope that recently I've had my best windows yet. In my recent window it was there all the time but it was at a lower level and I almost felt as if I could control it with my mind up to a point. Maybe one day it will just stop! Then I will run down the street naked shouting hallelujah. Although if I did that, I would probably be arrested and stuck in the psych ward where I would be given more drugs. So perhaps not.

[btdt]

it would be great if someone could let muddles know something for me, god bless her soul, I pray for her every day

 

I noticed on her thread that shes talking of heightened symptoms and also of hayfever...this is no coincidence

 

I know alot of people have talked about the histamine connection...this is very relevant in drugs like paxil and doxepin which are histamine blockers, its easy to understand how histamine is then an issue if that system is over sensitised or desensitised...most cases over sensitised, you look back at razzles reaction to balsamic....that was a classic histamine reaction (anaphilaxis) he had a severe adverse reaction to doxepin which acts directly on the histamine system

 

also......i know neuroplastic who used to post on here went into anapilaxis after havng some strawberrys and he was in withdrawal from paxil, another drug that acts on histamine directly...however the sweet sweet muddles drug was mirtazapine after an adverse reaction to citalopram...

 

I see mirtazapine is a strong anti histamine, it would be interesting to know if muddles also is having stronger histamine reacions that before.....that might give a clue to how the mirt has turned on her, a clue....

 

.if I had to guess at what was happening to this dear beautiful suffering woman who i relate to as a mother it would be that poop out for her was a desensitisation of 5ht1, leading to flooding serotonin post synaptically......

 

but wheres the histamine connection with heightened symptoms?? citalopram has no action on the histamine receptors, not directly, i can handle things very high in histamine with no ill effects.......but hayfever season, game over....and this is why

 

Mast cells are the cells in our body that contain histamine, when an allergic reaction happens, these cells break down rapidly and their contents is empied into our bodys and brains....for people who have hayfever or other alleric reactions, hives, sneezing, and at the other end of the scale the anaphilaxis...they are reacting to the high levels of histamine (which as we know is a bucket that once overflowed rovokes reaction) however...histamine is not the only thing contained in mast cells.....yep, you guessed it, its our old buddy serotonin!!!

 

so if pollen is high, mast cells are being broken down and even more serotonin is being pumped into the brain...i know several people in long term recovery who experience a ramping up of symptoms during pollen/hayfever season even though none of the reactions are histamine related...no allergy symptoms at all, but worse akathisia, anhedonia etc....i know last year I suffered tremendously during hayfever season......

 

i cant post on other peoples threads or I wouold let her know this myself.......i know not much can be done about it but for me, sometimes knowing whats causin something can bring me relief....

 

and nath is 1100% correct about the full moon, its the positive ions, they can increases serotonin 10 fold in the brain....this is why the full moon effects us like it does.........ive often wondered if a negative ion generator would help but most that i have looked at dont have a big enough impact on negative ions....

 

basically everything always comes down to serotonin......some of the symptoms are manifestations that the supsersensitivity or desensitisation to serotonin is hvaing on OTHER receptors, dopamine speciafically, but that is not the cause, its a symptom of the cause.....

 

those receptor sites etc are most likely functioning normally, or would be without the serotonin probelms

• Degranulation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degranulation

  •  
  •  

   

  The mast cell releases a mixture of compounds, including histamine, proteoglycans,serotonin, and serine proteases from its cytoplasmic granules.
• Serotonin containing and histamine containing cells in ...

  link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02777378

  by S Nagai - ‎1976 - ‎Related articles

  Dec 1, 1976 - Serotonin containing cells were also identified as enterochromaffn cells (EC ... to be identical to the mast cells, because of metachromatic property on ... Role of 5-hydroxytryptaminc in dumping syndrome alter gastrectomy.
• • ct of Serotonin Loading on Histamine Release

  Effe

  I had to check as i am jaded this is interesting. I had a lot of mast cells in my urine for years not sure if they are still and issue or not I was treated repeatedly for UTI's

   

  archsurg.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=561037

  by TC MOORE - ‎1963 - ‎Cited by 14 - ‎Related articles

  Research from JAMA Surgery — Effect of Serotonin Loading on Histamine ...experimental "dumping" is associated with a significant increase in serotonin in portal... Processes in Histamine Release and Mast Cell Degranulation in Rat Tissues  ...
• "those receptor sites etc are most likely functioning normally, or would be without the serotonin probelms"
• I know you will never find it now but years back there was an experiment done on baboons they were given zoloft ... brains were then looked at... the receptors were twisted to look like  a cork screw... yes there was literal damage done to the receptors in the brain... further more they waited 7 years and took another look cut up another baboon brain and found the exact same thing... not only is there damage to baboons at least but it had not healed in 7 years. 

There is an idea that the body shuts down the receptors by damaging them as there is too much serotonin in the system... could be true... who knows... and would be the cause of tolerance if it is true... the receptors were twisted and useless that is known....in baboons. 

Now there was some research at pp long ago saying the body can grow new receptors but they are babies and take long to mature ... I think have a fertile soil to mature in could be important... I don't know that fooling with some wine and weed will hurt you... then again I don't know it won't help you either... I did watch on tv yesterday that 50% of suicides involved alcohol.. I think it is a good source as it was that show intervention.. it is all about gettting addicts to treatment. 

Your bright... that could help you a lot... I use to think i was bright but I seem to loss it not sure what that is about I hope you keep your brain.

peace

[btdt]

wiki

A mast cell (also known as a mastocyte or a labrocyte^[1]) is derived from the myeloid stem cell and a part of the immune system that contains many granules rich in histamine and heparin. Although best known for their role in allergy and anaphylaxis, mast cells play an important protective role as well, being intimately involved in wound healing and defense against pathogens.^[2]

The mast cell is very similar in both appearance and function to the basophil, another type of white blood cell. They differ in that mast cells are tissue resident, e.g., in mucosal tissues, while basophils are found in the blood

 

is an immune response... maybe read this 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6722-auto-immune-diseases-triggered-by-ssri-withdrawal/page-3

 

seems your brain works better than mine so please take a look

[Iggy131313]

yeah im aware of all that stuff hon, im really sorry but Im not sure what your asking.....all I am saying is that symptoms can be made worse by the serotonin contained in mast cells when they break down...this is a natural response to things like allogens in the air.....and the exserotonin makes the symptoms woirse

[Iggy131313]

i doubt very much that we have more mast cells than anyone else, if we did we would all be displaying severe histamine reactions all the time, its our sensitivity to serotonin which is the problem.....i know my akathisia gets far far worse when the pollen count is high....also neuroplastic was stung by a wasp.......and had a return of the akathisia for quite a while...serotonin serotonin serotonin...it always comes back to serotonin

[Muddles]

My hayfever is very bad this year. I am sticking to a low histamine diet and that helps.

 

Taking such high doses of histamine everyday for 5 years is bad news.

 

I wonder what would happen in If I got stung by a wasp? I have so many sensitivities. Probably won't try that one.lol

[btdt]

i doubt very much that we have more mast cells than anyone else, if we did we would all be displaying severe histamine reactions all the time, its our sensitivity to serotonin which is the problem.....i know my akathisia gets far far worse when the pollen count is high....also neuroplastic was stung by a wasp.......and had a return of the akathisia for quite a while...serotonin serotonin serotonin...it always comes back to serotonin

The last link take a look at it... some of these drugs cause an auto immune response... mucus membranes lungs stomach...ect... mast cells are part of the immune system.

[btdt]

In hypersensitivity pneumonitis, as in DI-ILD, the first stage consists of an inflammatory process that evolves, over years, inevitably toward pulmonary fibrosis (1, 2, 9). Presumably, in some cases the presence of a fibrotic process reflects presentation at a later stage occurring after a previously overlooked allergic inflammation. Interestingly, Hubbard and coworkers found an association between cryptogenic fibrosing alveolitis and tricyclic antidepressant exposure (10). Therefore, for clinicians an early diagnosis of such pneumonitis is important because early drug cessation will reduce significantly the risk of irreversible fibrosis


Read More: http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1164/rccm.200207-739CR#.VSk1TfnF9Ig

[darktimes]

Iggy are you suffering withdrawal or did you have adverse reaction ?

[Iggy131313]

Ill take a look btdt, but I feel we are looking at a sy,ptom rather than a cause...mast cell degranulation is something that can make us feel worse, I really dont think its revelant towards a cause or even a contributing factor....

 

but I wioll deffo look...

 

Darktimes, both.....I was on citalopram for 2 and a  half years, but i took it in a terrible way, 2 weeks off, when i got brain zaps starting again...I never needed ADs and thought that was a good way to do things....ahhh to go back in time

 

anyway I CTed and was fine and dandy for 5 months....then I had a panic attack one night, it was weird becasue i had never had anything like that before but i thought it would pass in the morning

 

it did not...after 2 days of thinking i was going insane I went to the drs, she told me it was anxiety and gave me the citalopram back....BOOM, severe adverse reacyion....back and forth to drs, being told it was side effects, wetting myself and having seizures, oh yes of course thats normal side effects, begging them saying i have anxiety in my arms and legs.....the dr just looked at me like i was insane......this is was akathisia, or the start

 

by the time i found out what was happening i was on the drug for 6 weeks, having an adverse reaction the whole time....over the past 3 years i have tapered down from 20 or even 30 i cant remember to where i am now 0.40.....hope that answers your question x

[darktimes]

Yes i had adverse reaction also i remember finding a site not long after my reaction called antidepresantwithdrawalsomething something i remember reading through a thread about adverse reaction i think you were one of members this were i knew i what happened to me . There was another woman called m&m who was in an awful way from adverse reaction do you no if she healed what you s posted back then was great help to me

[darktimes]

Yes i had adverse reaction also i remember finding a site not long after my reaction called antidepresantwithdrawalsomething something i remember reading through a thread about adverse reaction i think you were one of members this were i knew i what happened to me . There was another woman called m&m who was in an awful way from adverse reaction do you no if she healed what you s posted back then was great help to me

[darktimes]

Yes i had adverse reaction also i remember finding a site not long after my reaction called antidepresantwithdrawalsomething something i remember reading through a thread about adverse reaction i think you were one of members this were i knew i what happened to me . There was another woman called m&m who was in an awful way from adverse reaction do you no if she healed what you s posted back then was great help to me

[darktimes]

Clicked d button 3 times there sorry

[Iggy131313]

haha yes thats ok, and yes that was me......it was IAWP...the forum is still there for vewing only....yes m and m is fully healed and very happy and in love...her reaction was less severe than mine, but she also had the awful complication of cancer and the treatment, which she didnt react to...my god if I had to have chemo,  I would be in big trouble....

 

Im glad I was some help to you back then, I miss that forum, it was very small and we all knew eachother...and my ranting was tolerated, the poeple there knew me enough.......

 

right now, right at this moent, I have my son in the bath, I can hear him singing, my boyfriend has gone to buy some compost so I can do some planting.....its 7.20pm and the window is open (literally) and a soft breeza is coming in....I feel anticipation of my future, and content...im cleaning the living room and looking at the lawn I mowed....I have zero symptoms..nothing

 

I did smoke a small joint earlier, but you know what...in a way, if it all turns on me....its worth it, for this moment, right now

[darktimes]

Thats great news she recovered im pretty severe case myself im 27 months now still sufering have d odd window but can function . do your windows last long now ?

[Iggy131313]

thats a tricky one, for me, I dont belive in waves and windows, not without a cause....I know thats contriversial...but personally I believe that waves ALWAYS have a reason behind them..be it something thats changed, hormonal changes, weather, or where you are in your reaction/withdrawal...etc etc

 

for the past 6 months, with the exception of my recent reaction to ibuprophen, I have been in a much better place...but this is down to 2 things, firstly the new man, and ''falling in love'' all the feelings that come with that bring about some chemical change that has helped.....once I added smoking weed 3 times a week in December, boom I had a life back bar some severe days which always were for a reason (virus, where I am in cycle)

 

So I have not recovered, I am not recovering per say, I am ''self medicating'' and although its at a risk, I have maintained this for 6 months and lived a full and satisfying life, a life where I get up in the morning and take my son to school...I commit things, WEEKS ahead...I go for meals in the evenings, or sit and watch tv, I have taken my son to the cinema, to parties, out for meals, to shopping malls, I have played on the street, on the xbox, in his bedroom with figures, I read to him at night.....

 

My home is clean and tidy, I had my hair cut from my waist to a bob with bangs (fringe) and had it dyed blonde (no reaction).....I went 8 months without BRIUSHING my hair...Before this past 6 months I had washed my hair 5 times in 2 years!!!!!! I bought a new wardrobe of clothes, and I wiggled about in them.....I am independent, and although I cannt work (I tried giving piano lessons to some local kids, but even that was too much, the symptoms would rev up) I can enjoy life...not everyday, but some days I go from morning to night with no symptoms AT ALL......but this is with self medication......but I will say that there have been times that weed has not helped, but this is not one of them....

 

DO NOT TRY SMOKING WEED TO RELIEVE YOUR SYMPTOMS ANYONE, IT COULD CAUSE A SEVERE WORSENING AND IT VERY DANGEROUS...I MAKE MY OWN MISTAKES...

 

so yeah, I can only say it as I have found things

[darktimes]

Im happy that your doing well again suppose everyone finds something that works for them .my symptoms most of time are spacey feeling tension type headaches and feeling nervous but im a lot better than i was . If this spacey feeling went away id be fine has to be my worst symptom

[Iggy131313]

ok forget everything, today Im back to severe suffering and on the edge of getting my ex to take my son and go to bed.....I was fine all morning, just pretty normal, then went for lunch at nandos, a chicken place...I know chicen has alot of tryptophan, but i wouldnt think enough to make me this bad......on the way home from lunch i felt the panic feelings rising, and the akathisia starting up too......for the past 4 hours I have been inconsolable, severe dread and terror, severe akathisia and waves of dread and the sickness is back too

 

could it be something I ate? that quickly? or is it rebound fro something, I dont think it is....this is all the same symptoms of the reaction to the ibuprophen, but im trying to stay calm, stay calm.......im devestated this has happened, I was SO well yesterday, normal and happy, now halfway into today and the symptoms have stopped me in my tracks, all I want to do is dump my boyfriend, send my son to my exs and basically kill myself...cant cope, cant speak....the aymptoms are so all consuming i can do nothing.....from lunch? something else?

 

Im not asking for opinions, I speculating myself...its one of 3 things

 

1) I got TOO stoned the other day (day before yesterday) it was an accident, it was stronger than i have had before and it gave me a bad reaction, in that i had a whitey....

 

2) the excitement of a very busy morning today has set me back

 

3) it was lunch

 

I know everyones gonna say its the weed, could be, im not ounting it out, obviously thats scary to me as it means my only relief would be gone......its now 4.30pm which means im gonna start gettigng worse now, even yesterday which was near perfect i ramped up and suffered some from 4.30 for a few hours

 

my symptoms are

 

spaceness

terror

akathisia

dread

severe panic

extreme overwhelm (cant walk or speak)

sickness

 

the key thing is the sickness, that was new from the reaction to the ibuprohen, to me, its a sign that serotonin is too high hitting those 5ht3 receptors that casue nausea....but im suffering right now and intensly scared...again...hope it passes soon

 

my gut instinct says it was lunch, but ive eaten chicken a million times, ive also had takeaways and junk food millions of times, this was a grilled chice wrap, perhaps the spices or something they use im reacting to...or maybe its the weed 2 days ago, or maybe its an ultra busy morning, but i dont think thats it.....ive had busier days and been fine

 

scared scared scared

[Iggy131313]

note to self....research BCAAs serotonin

 

im still very sick, I have been through my journal and it seems the good days are when i have a ''hangover''....so this is my normal state of being, as always...im drinking wine tonight to see if it will help

 

I saw a study that says the benefits and feel good stuff from alcohol comes from endorphins.......thats a bit depressing to be honest, I already know that endorphions can stop my symptoms, i was really hoping it might have been the gaba that was helping, I may try a gaba suppliment soon as see if it helps, but if its in fact dopamine and endorphins, then theres no alternative, i dont like drinking, never have.....

 

of course im treating the symptoms and not the casue, but i must look into bcaas, the only issue being that it seems they also lower dopamine, however, if serotonin is depleted, that MIGHT not mater somuch, particularlyif i use weed....worth a look at

[Songbird]

....on the way home from lunch i felt the panic feelings rising, and the akathisia starting up too......for the past 4 hours I have been inconsolable, severe dread and terror, severe akathisia and waves of dread and the sickness is back too

 

could it be something I ate? that quickly?

 

my gut instinct says it was lunch, but ive eaten chicken a million times, ive also had takeaways and junk food millions of times, this was a grilled chice wrap, perhaps the spices or something they use im reacting to...

 

It's hard to say, but I think it is possible that you reacted to something in the food.  Commercially prepared food can contain a lot of additives, such as flavour enhancers, that some people are sensitive to (or may become sensitive to at times when in withdrawal).  Have you had many takeaways or junk food since the ibuprofen triggered your latest wave?

[Iggy131313]

im not sure to be honest...i have no idea whats going in, i imagine my perfect day on saturday was part of a reaction that led to this...or not, i dont know, i dont know anything

 

i got worse and worse after eating yesterday lunchtime.......i drank 2 glasses of wine last night to try and help and to see if I would be better today with a ''hangover'' Im always better with a ''hangover'' which will be a dopemine thing, but ive woken with severe terror, and severe nausea, the nausea was so much better but now its back and severe

 

it is either the weed reaction on thursady cauing this, or its what i ate yesterday OR its my natural state in this setback but things I have been doing are covering it up.....

 

all I can do is see how today goes, its 9.30 and i just got up, ive woken with the terror, overwhelm and severe severe nausea, im sat here heaving and retching again...that had NEVER happened before the reaction to ibuprophen, which was more a reaction to lowerwed/missed doses than the ibuprophen itself, unless the nausea is damage to the stomach or the 5ht3 in the stomach, i dont know

 

my husband is on standby to get my son if i am anable to care for him today....i need to wait an hour and see how I am when the terror and early morning symptoms fade some

[LoveandLight]

Only people in WD could say they were better with a hangover!

[Iggy131313]

thats not true actually, people on the pssd forum also see improvements in their sexual motivation and ability with a hangover, its all to do with the dopamine...god damn big pharma, they have ruined my life, my life was getting better and now im back to this, here I go...trying to cope

[Iggy131313]

and heres another example of someone talking about hangovers

 

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/64835-chronic-dopamine-deficiency-consistently-disappearing-during-alcohol-hangovers/

[Iggy131313]

so far im less severe than I was yesterday but saying that, the severity didnt kick in until after 1pm....which is usual for me, I tend to get worse at 2m...4.30/5pm .....at the moment i also get worse at night with the aka...but that reaction was something different, im still thinking it was the nandos.......perhaps there was ginger in it, or something, i dont know, but even if it wasnt that, iwill never eat there again FACT

 

feel less unstable, and i want to plant some flowers...but im far FAR from ok....im the opposite of OK...im NOT ok....im not nearly ok, Im not getting lose to ok, im AWFUL...but im trying

[Iggy131313]

OK ITS 2.30pm and im no where like I was yesterday...much better...only mild symptoms, functioning well, hopeful etc...so this is most likely the hangover effect.....

 

OR...the reaction from yesterday is settling down....but i suspect that the severe state is my natural state of being, and the things im doing are ''treating'' the symtpoms....

 

ive been looking at my short notes ive been taking ito see any patterns....now dont make the mistake of thinking that the drink is causing this....the reaction to ibuprophen casued this....but i can see clearly that without a hangover or sleep depreivation, the severe state comes back....

 

sunday - NORMAL STATE NO WEED NO BOOZE easter, horrendous severe unbearable terror out with fred....rileys suffering at night..., didnt want to drink
 

monday - NORMAL STATE NO HANGOVER NO WEED hmmm  dumped in morning....dried hair, pj came back worked it out, felt some beter, went out akathisia, drank red wine, took it off
 

tuesday HANGOVER - mowed lawn, went to shops with fred, some terror at shops but able to cope at home, kaayden round, snoked some weed, symptoms left...no spaced out stuff since monday, coped ok all night but got dumped up all night with pj breaking up and not
 

wednesday ZERO SLEEP - zero sleep, went to zoo, main symptoms anxiety and pgad, all day....able to cope mostly, on sofa with virtually no symptoms for the evening, deffo no ala...prob the lack of sleep.....smoked some weed felt ok
 

thursday - SLEEP AND NO HANGOVER (NORMAL STATE) severe terror...had a smoke, its not helped, just had sex that has slightly helped but i can feel more symptoms starting up, the woozyness, im also having alot of overwhelm, and some tinnutus...severe symptoms...not coping..went to laundrette, got pissed, all went away
 

friday - HANGOVER from laundrette - felt good, tidyied round etc then pj picked me up, took me for chicken, went to albert, got waaay too stoned, whitey home, was ok for eveing..NO BOOZE
 

saturday - DAY AFTER WHITEY best day ever - baically 100% had a very small vodka at night not even a shot
 

sunday - NORMAL STATE - fine at the photo shoot, fine fine fine, did some shopping in town, went for lunch, 30 mins later all horrific symptoms back, rushed home, had a smoke to try take it off...didnt work..possibly made it worse.....couldnt cope, wailed, flet better, couldnt cope, wailed again, felt better...on and off all day
 

Monday (HANGOVER) much better than yesterday so far...