☼ Cymbaltawithdrawal5600: Introduction

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

oh mammaP, I feel your hug and it sure is welcome!

 

yesterday, in the heat of that argument, I yelled at her "no wonder my sister committed suicide". I actually ran to the kitchen, grabbed a knife and went and stood right beside her, my arm leaning across her desk and the tip of the knife at my wrist. "Is this what you want mom? Are you happy that I want to kill myself?"

 

I have never been so angry in my life, the force of my anger stunned and sickened me.

 

I am going to skip the rest, I caught myself in time (I couldn't have used that knife anyway, too dull.) It would not have been a stretch to see that that kind of intense anger could very well have have been turned on her. But I couldn't do that. I would sacrifice myself first. I wouldn't ever touch her. My dad was smart enough not to ever touch her either.

 

So I left the house early this morning, got coffee, talked to a couple of friends and then went to help an old guy with his computer. Stopped in to see another friend and we got to talking. I told her about some of the stuff my parents did to me and my sister. She called it child abuse. I am still not wanting to believe it.

 

I don't need my mom's love to feel good about myself. She can't give me something she can't even give herself. But she did give me the space to express the most intense anger I have ever felt in my life and I didn't die from it and neither did she. But she's going to have to go the rest of the way by herself. She will have to find someone else to pick fights with. Not me. I've had enough of that. I am sure I'll forget once in awhile. But I never have to let it out like that again.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I read through the comments on MIA yesterday, comments to the post Dr. Shipko made that 'seemed' to some a negation of hope of recovery from AD therapy. It seemed to me that the comments section turned into the worst imaginable train wreck and I felt like my brain exploded (I skipped every post made by the person who did a 'critique' of Shipko's message). So what else is new for the comments section of any blog or newsgroup or forum? But then I read this comment:

 

http://www.madinamerica.com/2013/08/ssri-discontinuation-is-even-more-problematic-than-acknowledged/#comment-29791

 

and was pleasantly surprised at how much food for thought it provided.

 

Yep. We tend to forget that woven through our pharmacological drug history is 'life'. That is why you will never find 2 people with the same experience to a drug, a supplement, a therapy, a whatever. We have some common agreement to terminology (but do we really? Is your 'anhedonia' the same as mine?) and some of our stories seem to follow a predictable (?!) pattern, but we are all as varied as 'snowflakes'. Whether we do it (life) with or without the 'help' of drugs, exercise, meditation, ranting on forums, taking supplements (and I could go on an on), is not the point.

 

The point is we just do it. And some of us write about our 'doing' of it and give our own unique spin to things. Sometimes heads bob in agreement, others shake in disgust or disbelief. At ALL times it is 'life'. At no time is it simple and explainable and so 'reductionist'. I dare you to 'prove' me wrong.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

If you were to look at the terms I type into a search you would know what I am thinking about. Yep, still thinking about the mysterious term 'enlightenment' and why I am not (yet). Still searching for the answers to why I have the ugly experiences (like the awful anger) and how can I fix it so it doesn't happen again.

 

So today's search (why am I using the INTERNET for gosh sakes and not LOOKING INSIDE MYSELF?):

 

'how do I know when I am enlightened?'

 

and I get this (out of About 1,939,811 results (0.26 seconds):

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-99th-monkey/201006/why-i-am-not-enlightened

 

The author writes:

 

 

It's the perennial paradox. There are many spiritual teachers and schools of thought who remind us continuously that, "this is it," that we are, each of us, always already enlightened. That it is impossible to be otherwise, and any effort whatsoever in the direction of enlightenment can only, by definition, be a journey further from it, since it is where, unbeknownst to us, we are starting out from. A religious way of stating this would be to say that we are always already in the Presence of God. If God is Omnipresent, the Source and Substance of Everything/Everywhere, (and for the non-dual people, also the Non-Source and Non-Substance of Nothing/Nowhere, and really neither of those two, nor both; confused yet?) then there is absolutely nothing any of us could do, obviously, to either bring in or remove God from the scene.

Our True Nature is who we already are, not something we can become or attain in the future. The paradox becomes that we somehow don't recognize this fact and spend years searching for something that was never lost, and if we're fortunate, we'll run into a teacher along the way who will simply, as the Tibetan Dzogchen tradition puts it, "point out" what is perfectly obvious. Jed McKenna calls it "opening your eyes," Gurdjieff and many others refer to it as "waking up." It has been called God-Realization, Self-Realization, Enlightenment, Liberation, or simply being real and authentic, resting in the center of our original, True Nature and living life from that place rather than looking for it.

So those seem to be our two main choices: Either we're presently, already enlightened and simply don't know it, and there may or may not be teachers or methods that can help us achieve the recognition that there is nothing to achieve; or, we're clearly very far from enlightenment and we need to be willing to sacrifice our very lives to get to the Truth, and there may or may not be teachers or methods that will help us achieve that. In either case, good luck! In the meantime, it seems to me that it behooves we spiritual seekers to get on with our day.

 

Yep. Get on with our day. Stop staring out the window, trying to practice 'presence', stop praying for deliverance from the pain of life and living. Chop wood and carry water. It is over when the fat lady sings. Or is it?

 

I've got 'emotional pain' and at one time I thought ADs could help me function (really, I thought they could take away the pain. They are legal, right?) I hate it, I hate seeing myself while in the grip of it. But I do not think the answer is to choke the life out of the fat lady.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/938-roads-awful-dilemma-citalopram-cold-turkey/page-5#entry60431

[Meimeiquest]

CB, How are you doing? I hope the drama with your mom turned out to be a positive breakthrough. Sounds like it was very intense. She sounds like my grandmother, but she did not raise my mom.....I say that only to say I feel for you in your loss and in your anger.

[mammaP]

I hope you are ok too, was thinking about you this morning and wondering how you are. 

 

Hope you are coping hunni. xxx

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Thank you for asking about me, Meimei and mammaP!

 

I am doing quite well and the upset with my mother was the extreme catalyst for me seeking a new way to approach life. A friend loaned me his copy of "the Power of Now" and I have been practicing it faithfully. It brings me immense, immediate relief. I am so very fortunate to be living with a parent, they are said to be one's "greatest spiritual teachers". How true that is!

[mammaP]

That's fantastic to hear, I'm so so glad you have found something that helps. 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M00VLswZdyc

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I have been in a sort of limbo, searching for ways to help myself cope with issues that are occurring for me. I come to SA at times throughout every day and read all of the new postings. I have wanted to comment on some but have held back as most are what I see as a 'fix' for them that worked for me but probably would not work for the person I would suggest it to (and I do not think I know how to word things so they come out as suggestions). I can remember 2 posts I made in other's threads and when I read their responses I was taken aback and upset by how they were worded. I have 2 people living inside me, a 'fixer' and a needy, lonely, bewildered child. I am told there is a third, my True Self. This, I think, is the voice that comes to me as my 'intuition'. The voice sounds different and gives me clues as to what might be going on or directions to take or things to try and is different from that constant steam of thoughts I am always hearing. I do not know about the rest of you, but I hear my thoughts and am often disheartened at how negative they are towards me and everyone else (including the people I 'read' about, here and elsewhere). When I read the words of another, I form a mental picture of them, and who I think they are and make judgements. I make even worse judgements about myself. Oh, I am bone tired of listening to that stuff all day, every day. But I had a surprising result using a technique from The Work with the situation with my mom.

 

About a week ago it occurred to me that I have recovered, physically and mentally, from my 8 year use of Cymbalta, Lamictal and clonazepam. I had gone back in and started reading my thread and saw how frequently I mentioned 'spiritual enlightenment'. It hasn't even been a year yet and I am back where I was 8 years ago, searching for the same thing. I do not know how this happened. I am physically fit (except for what stiffness in some joints at times that I attribute to aging and a more sedentary lifesyle that happened when I lost a lot of clients when I was too sick to work at the tail end of the ADs and acute withdrawal).  I sleep very well, my appetite is good. I have stopped force feeding my body what my head thinks it needs and it appears to be doing well. I am able to walk and bike for surprising distances. I have even been out in my kayak and enjoyed it immensely.

 

I still have tinnitus and seeing as how I remember noticing it a very long time ago, I don't count it as AD damage. Some other lifestyle problem maybe. And heart palpitations. I have no clue how to 'fix' them. I do notice that my angry emotions make them more noticeable but that is as far as I have gotten. I have another appointment with the GP and I'll ask him then.

 

I considered posting a recovery story and for these couple of weeks I sat on it and it just didn't get written. I would rather just post in my thread for now. I found it immensely helpful doing this in the past when the contents of my mind and emotions were unbearable and it really helped me. That is my selfish motive for being here. I have been talking to one of my friends about stuff that is bothering me and though she is OK with it, I do not feel it is the best thing to do in some cases, especially when I talk about thoughts surrounding suicide. Therapy is not possible right now, keeping a journal does not work for me. I find it helpful to articulate what is going on in my mind at the moment, putting it out here or carefully with a friend, and allowing feedback. There is something that happens for me, when I hear myself talking to someone, where I say things that I did not even know I was feeling or thinking. Combined with self reflection (when I can get a word in edgewise while my negative self talk is going on), these 2 things have been surprisingly effective in uncovering and dealing with my issues. I often only know that something is wrong but I don't really know what until I start talking or writing about it here or a worksheet from The Work.

 

I knew, way back in the beginning of my recovery from antidepressants, that the day would come (and many days already have) where I would have to deal with my feelings without the help of medications. I felt bad as a child and I have, for most of my adult life felt bad too. ADs pulled me out of some deep holes and I do not regret ever taking them. But their side effects created problems. One of my first pdocs at the clinic told me that the drugs would help bring my mood up enough so I could function and then it would be easier for me to deal with the issues that were keeping me from living a satisfying life (I don't remember exactly what he said). That happened in some areas, yes, but not where it mattered, deep inside. The side effects of the meds interferred.

 

The combined influence of my parents, culture, friends, environment and schooling produced a lot of what I am today. And a lot was produced by WHAT I THOUGHT they were telling me and how I acted when I did what I thought they were telling me to do. Somewhere in all that I never developed a sense of who I am and who I wanted to be. I do not think I have ever 'grown up'. I see the 2 tasks facing me right now as:

 

  1) Growing up psychologically

  2) Staying out of deep depression

 

I think it may be possible for me to grow myself up and I also think I can stay out of deep depression. Some of the stuff I have tried really has worked, especially when I manage to overcome my natural laziness and get to doing it. And I have found that I can live with a degree of depression (low mood, emotion, motivation) and be ok with it being present. I cry a lot and the crying really helps. I have other things I do.

 

The growing up part is harder. I will find out if it is possible......

[Petunia]

Hi CW,

I was pleasantly surprised to see you posted in your thread again.  I often wonder how you are doing.

 

....and miss your presence here.

 

Is that Byron Katie's 'the work'?

 

 I have wanted to comment on some but have held back as most are what I see as a 'fix' for them that worked for me but probably would not work for the person I would suggest it to (and I do not think I know how to word things so they come out as suggestions).

 

Lots more people read these threads than actually post, so any suggestions or ideas offered, while maybe not working for the person intended, might in fact be just what someone else needed to read.

 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Petu, thanks so much for welcoming me 'back' and yes, it is Byron Katie. I am reading "Loving What Is" right now and I have the oddest mixed feelings - I see the truth in what she says but it also leaves me feeling incredibly anxious. There is no mistaking my experience of having a 'thought' (in this case "My mother doesn't love me") suddenly leave me and stop popping up as a persistent daily, hourly occurrence. The persistence of that thought and my feelings of frustration at having it appear (along with copious tears of self pity) always prompted thoughts of suicide. What I have been doing for some time now is just sitting with the 'suicide thought', watching when it comes and in what context. (I am treating it as an abstraction, if that makes any sense. If there are thoughts or images of an actual method I quickly use some sort of physical distraction and leave it alone.)

 

What I have found is that for some reason, when methods I use to bring about self change don't seem to work, the 'me' inside always is quick to bring that up as the solution. The smarter, educated part knows that the solution won't work. Annihilation does not bring peace. The only pain there is is that which comes while thinking the thought. So destroying myself because of a 'thought' won't work. (Reading Tolle gave me a lot of insight into thoughts). That part inside me that is so quick to sacrifice 'me' really hurts. My intuition tells me that I have done this for so long that that is the reason I felt (and still feel) so bad inside (and required outside help.) It also tells me that if I do the Work on my thoughts that that is the way through to peace inside (at least for the thoughts I use it on). At the risk of sounding really weird, while I was writing about this thought about my mom, I actually kept trying it on inside and realized that the thought has no more energy. It is just a sentence and does not apply to me any more. But other stuff comes up, I am not done yet. Because then there's more of my mom, my dad, sister, everybody else, I'll never run out of stuff to explore and inquire about

 

I knew it was going to be helpful posting here again, despite my reservations. I just realized 2 things: my hurt about wanting to destroy myself actually pushed me into the 'inquiry' (so the willingness to sit with it instead of stuffing it down or running for medication) was completely necessary FOR ME. I do not recommend this technique at all as it seems very dangerous. The other is I had no idea I was actually starting to understand that it is my thoughts that cause me pain, not the world or other people. I actually wrote that above. And the anxiety that pushed me to post this morning has gone away.

 

I tell myself that I only have to do this in bits and pieces so that I do not get overwhelmed with the enormity of the job I think I am faced with. And I have to let myself settle into a new way of being for awhile. I have been reading a lot about 'depersonalization' both as a psychological disorder and as a state that occurs as a result of a shift into 'non-dual awareness'. When one finds onself being 'different' inside as a result of any exercise, it can be profoundly unsettling. I seem to have a high tolerance for physical pain but a low tolerance for 'psychic' pain. I think that is why my physical recovery from ADs happened as quickly as it did. It all happened before I ever found SA. (The completeness of it, the physical recovery part, only occurred to me a couple of weeks ago). I only came here when the psychic pain was overwhelming and I felt really alien inside. So sitting and acting in the world after a shift in my inner life is necessary for me, like the 'integration' I talked about in one of my posts some time ago. I still do not feel comfortable in the world, I take my place in it as much as I can stand and try not to dwell too much on how I think I am 'coming off'. Pushing too hard to 'get well' causes a backlash of suicidal thoughts, despair and anxiety and that feeling of clenching in my gut like I got earlier this year. That will always be a major warning sign for me that I am running off in my head instead of listening to my 'Self'.

 

Petu, you are well suited to being a moderator!

[mammaP]

Good to see you CW. I always like reading your posts, they make a lot of sense to me. 

Sorting out what is in my head is the scary part of recovery. Those drugs change so many things,

it's like trying to straighten out a tangled mass of yarn or string, undo one bit and cause knots

somewhere else. I think you are doing a great job and give me ideas to work on. 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

mammaP, I am delighted to see you stopped by my thread! I was so thrilled to see that you had posted in the Recovery Story section. You will have that standing there to remind yoursef if the going ever gets rough in the future. Your feeling of perseverence and accomplishment really stands out!

 

I am glad you get something out of my postings, that means that maybe they do have a place here. I had been needing to get things out of my head and could not think of another place to be. It takes time to build reputation and trust in an online group and I just don't have it in me to find another place and begin at the beginning. I came here every day, at least 2-3 times and some days more frequently but had nothing to say except for the 2 very short comments I made. As time went on I admit to feeling hurt because no one asked how I was, there were no PM's for me. Then I got to realizing that the people were involved in their own lives and struggles as much as I was involved in mine so of course they weren't looking after me. And I never saw things from the angle you pointed out: ideas about things to work on. One of my habits after most every visit here is to look at the 'who's online' list. I see who has been logged in lately and what they had been reading. What topics guests read (some of those 'guests' may be doing the same as me: reading the group but not logging in) and what topics the web crawlers are indexing. Often I will go over to a topic I see there and find out some really neat stuff. But I don't log in and then post into the topic to add a couple of cents, I just go off exploring...

 

I did see that somone (guest) had visited my thread about a week ago and I was so surprised! I agonize with some of the people that are having problems, cheer with the ones who are doing well (like you!), but from the sidelines. There are some postings that completely mystify me, I cannot get a sense of the person behind the words. And others, I am just not going to talk about my thoughts because they don't matter. They are issues for me to deal with in the privacy of my mind, things that reveal parts of me that I need to work on if I am to become a whole person who has authentic feelings and not the ones I think I am supposed to have. And what I read is not the 'real person' really, it is a snapshot of how they expressed what they were about at that given time and in their words. People comment and their comments make me wonder what they read in the words and I have to go back and forth sometimes a lot before I can see it. Sometimes I never do figure it out.....

 

I always feel I take and take and take from here and never give anything back. I don't really know how to give back. I can't even help anyone and lots of times I cannot even help myself. Those are the times I just let the tears come. I stay alive and the day passes and another day comes. No day is ever the same. I started the day out being anxious, felt better after posting here and went off to my volunteer job. By the time I got home my anxiety was back. First time in a long time I have felt it the way I felt it today. I don't have it much right now and I know if I am patient and don't panic, whatever it is that is scaring me will either come up into awareness or will settle itself. I won't know until it happens. But I do know the most surprising things happen as a result of my patience and willingness to just wait instead of casting about in a panic trying to fix something I don't even know what it is that is wrong. Sitting with discomfort is hell sometimes but has delightful results! The more I do it the more I want to do it. But I am never a masochist about it. When it gets really bad I always take a hydroxyzine if I am afraid I let it go too long. I have learned not to let my stress get too high and I have had to take a pill only a few times in the last month. I am so glad the doc gave me those to take.

[Petunia]

 As time went on I admit to feeling hurt because no one asked how I was, there were no PM's for me.

 

I have often wondered how you are doing, but didn't post in your thread because I didn't know if you were lurking, I think its called, and if you were, I didn't want to lure you back because around the time you left, I got a strong feeling that you felt you needed to stay away and explore other areas of your life.....

 

One of the reasons I enjoy your posts is because you're on a spiritual path and write about it.  For me, half the time, I'm not sure how much of what I'm going through is a result of medication withdrawal or if I"m struggling to integrate various spiritual or mystical 'events'.

 

Someone told me I probably have several things going on at the same time.  Kundalini and AD withdrawal have very similar symptoms.

 

 

 I have been reading a lot about 'depersonalization' both as a psychological disorder and as a state that occurs as a result of a shift into 'non-dual awareness'. When one finds onself being 'different' inside as a result of any exercise, it can be profoundly unsettling.

 

I'm so glad you wrote this because I've been wondering about the same thing.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

 

I'm so glad you wrote this because I've been wondering about the same thing.

 

I have some thoughts on this and also your other statement about kundalini that I hope to get back to, you can certainly remind me if I forget. It relates to what I had been reading that was causing the intense anxiety (and maybe something I was doing....)

 

I just had the weirdest experiences this morning. I awoke from a dream, very suddenly. I was in the house of one of my clients and he was sitting in a chair dressed in black tuxedo pants and a starched white shirt and putting on brand new white ice skates. But his head was wrong, his face was very light and so was his hair. As I was wondering about this, I looked out the window and saw a jetliner that had just taken off and was flying overhead. As I watched, it curved suddenly downward in front of the window and headed directly toward the ground. In the moment before it hit, I heard my 'thought' "We're dead!" As I watched, it entered the ground nose first, buried itself about a third of the way up the fuselage. No sound, no explosion. Just sitting there. I heard ice skate man telling me it is time to go and so we started walking to our cars in a big parking lot. He reached his car before I did and as he was unlocking his I realized that I did not have my car keys. I am in a lot full of cars and I cannot go back for my keys because the plane might explode.

 

I woke up and began thinking that I didn't know if I could cope with having this image in my mind all day, what it meant and if it was related to yesterday's anxiety (and would I now be anxious all day?). I remembered something I read a long time ago about dream content and recurring dreams. It was something along the lines of recurring dreams, when they stop, are a sign that something has been resolved or 'moved past'. As I watched my mind think about the dream, I remembered one I had as a child (I don't remember if it was recurring) about waking up in the middle of a very quiet summer night, everyone else asleep, and seeing a huge bomb that had hit the street in front of my window, buried itself there but part of it was still visible and it did not explode. No one could see it and I knew if I told my dad it wouldn't help.

 

But then I remembered that some vivid dreams can be a signpost of sorts, a note from the 'subconscious' that something major has happened beneath the level of the thinking, everyday awareness. That I should remember something that happened in my inner life as a child and have it relate to my dad makes sense. That I believed what my father told me about myself all those years (that there was something wrong with me, that who I was was not the right way to be if I wanted to be loved and approved of by him, the most important person in my life) has shown up in all of my life, all of these years. The deep depression, feelings of helplessness and inconsolable crying, inability to get along with others and my feelings that I need to 'grow up' psychologically because that's what's wrong with me all make sense. So do the suicide thoughts. I have 2 explanations for those that make sense to me.

 

I'll have to continue later, my laptop is uncomfortable to write on (it is very hot where my hands rest near the keyboard.) My dear sweet tablet keeps crashing and I think I know why (nothing mystical, I believe automatic windows updates for win8 have caused incompatibilities with many un-updated driver files) and I am not of a mind right now to do computer fixing.

 

I love that I had that dream!

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

(what did those people, the 30 or so who viewed my thread after I posted yesterday, think when they read my thoughts?)

 

At different times yesterday I felt anxious (at least I think it was anxiety, it could also be a kind of excitement or anticipation or fear) but the scary image of the plane did not haunt me. I have to consciously call it to mind and there's no feeling associated with it. I'll never know if getting it out of my head and down on paper had something to do with it not being a source of fear or not. I'll have to try sitting with the next one and see what happens.....

 

I am learning a great deal about the world of thought and feelings and their workings in 'suffering'. Last night I read Shinzen Young's "What is Mindfulness" and was completely delighted by him. When people read about the benefits of mindfulness and meditation (you can stop suffering? really?) no wonder they start on the 'path'. I hate being tormented by my thoughts. Earlier this month I was doing something, not only did it not work (I was thinking that it would stop the thoughts) but brought on very strong feelings of suicide and despair. Ooops, definitely not good. I stopped what I was doing immediately and began to do some more research. I found out that on my own, I had discovered what to do when things like this happen - you scale back on practice or switch to something else. So the suicide thoughts are a good marker for me. I am still not sure if I can continue on my own (without the help of a knowledgeable teacher). GiaK posted a link recently about the danger that one can have these sorts of things happen and they can throw you for a loop. But I cannot find any concrete information what to do, only that people who have 'psychological' problems are at risk. I know that has been one of the things that has been scaring me. I have an inner compulsion to end suffering (whereas before it was to have 'mystical experiences' because I despised my daily experiences) but I am in terror of 'losing it'.

 

I am gathering a lot of information on this stuff. I am really good at finding information. And getting lots better at slowing down, being patient and waiting. But I still have a drive toward 'awakening'. I understand that that is happening to a lot of people these days.

[Petunia]

I had a few thoughts yesterday when I read your post, but I've been having bad brain days, two days in a row now, so I'm finding it hard to transform my thoughts into words (again).

 

It always amazes me how so many people can read posts and never comment, not even a few words, I guess you have to be a member first, so that might be something to do with it.

 

I'm having exactly the same concerns as you about being on 'the path' with no teacher, but genuine ones are hard to find I think.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I just remembered one of the reasons I stopped posting here. I saw that some of my postings were viewable on the Facebook page for SA. How I feel about Facebook and what Zuckerberg has in mind for it is not the issue, it is my privacy I am worried about. So yesterday I looked it up and found out that only certain areas show up there (Finding Meaning, Symptoms and Self Care, Controversies and In The Media. Not the members postings in the Intro section and the ones that are for registered members only. If that changes (or gets fouled up due to lax security or badly behaved spiders) I am done here.

 

Everybody knows that law enforcement uses FB to track down criminals, right? And lord knows what the data miners are up to. Not good to underestimate the power of the love of money and the huge amount of fear hiding behind it. I know, because I feel that fear myself. Daily.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Hi Petu,

 

Yeah, the finding a teacher thing stopped me sorta cold. But guess what! On Shinzen's site you can do it online. If you read his blog, there is a tidbit of information about support which might comfort you (at least I think that is where I read it), it comforted me. You can download all of the requisite reading (pdfs) for free. I have them on my Nook so I don't have to have a computer running. I may not be ready to start in Oct. (oh how the 'ego' resists!), I haven't written to ask if they recommend a person with a history of depression do it that way.

 

Actually, I find it a blessing that I do not have a lot of comments on my thread (but the number of views really intrigues me!). I have got a 'big ego' thing and a pretty active 'fixer complex'. And it wouldn't really be helpful for me to know what people really think of me. I guess it is the thing that "if I find myself posting here then this is where I need to be". Just because I don't find myself talking about the same sorts of things the other members do doesn't mean I don't belong here or fit in. I just fit differently. I have a pretty low tolerance (or maybe enjoyment is a better word) for 'me too' or 'what do you think I should do' posts. (I can't ever be a Mod because I know I would be too blunt!) I started reading Gary Weber's blog and he sometimes posts questions from people. He answers first by saying something like "Well let's see if you have already written your own answers in the question". I see that in posts here all the time. People already have their own answers but they don't like or trust them or themselves. At some point one has to take the leap of faith and begin trusting their own answers and getting up enough nerve to try them out. I read a depression book that really helped me see how it could be done by making it into an experiment. If it doesn't work out you can always go back to what you were doing (even suffering!) or try something else. I wrote about the profound effects of some of my 'experiments'. They came to me as a tiny, quiet image or thought or feeling, I can't really remember. And they were in areas of my life where, if they didn't work out, there was no great chance that they would 'draw blood'.

 

But the meditation thing, without a teacher? Ah, that just might have the possibility (or not) to draw blood. So I took my fears to the net and started searching for information. A great help was Adyashanti's book on the 'dark night' and some stuff on the Aloha Dharma site, also Shinzen's Youtube channel. Um, I think I was confusing some symptoms and maybe you can find some info on kundalini there, I think you mentioned you had some concerns. I decided to take someone's advice and not dwell on (or get caught up in) what may be called 'kundalini' symptoms or the other stuff that can start appearing. I want the whole enchilada even at the risk of biting into a he11acious habanero chili (as long as I have made every effort to have adequate support). I don't want to be sidetracked by the 'woo woo' stuff again, thinking that it is the 'real thing'. There's no harm it it, I guess, it's more of a dead end, but there are people who live their lives there. It is just not what I want anymore (but my 'ego' definitely harbors those desires and I know I would like find a shortcut around 'suffering').

 

The heart palpitatons I keep having are a case in point. They are a lot more apparent lately. Now is that because I am developing a dangerous heart problem, my heart chakra is opening as a result of kundalini energy being waked up, or is it just more noticeable because I have begun to be more 'in my body' as a result of reading and practicing 'presence'? I don't have an answer yet but I am going to start by asking the doc about them again and then keep trying to be patient until I have more clarity.

 

Maybe my thread here is a place for people to stop in and read about an 'experimenter'. And if I had not had the nerve to voice my concerns about the 'spiritual path' I would never have met you, Petu. You have no idea how valuable your writings have been for me. But you knew that already, didn't you. And GiaK's blog. If I am looking for it chances are she has already found it for me. All I have to do is go there and start browsing.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I start talking and then I can't shut up!

 

The thing that started and contributed to the blow up with my mom was about not talking to me. And then I noticed that something was happening with other people too, something that was resulting in 'not talking' to them after awhile and them 'walking on eggshells' around me (because of my anger I think). When I would be in the grip of something, some nameless hurt that caused buckets of tears, I would go to mom's room and try to get relief. Instead I would get advice on how to 'fix' myself (including 'why don't you go back on the drugs!") and I would end up being more and more upset. I have a couple of friends I would visit too and after a time my tears would subside. I'd feel better enough that I could return home and be ok with myself until the next time.

 

When, as a result of some experiences and thought, one realizes that the usual distractions won't work anymore, one is kinda stuck. Got to where the only TV I could watch (among the few channels I get) was HGTV and then that one turned on me (the commercials were getting to me long before that), crafting didn't work (had a little mini buying spree there), not hungry, already went for a walk, couldn't read and for sure didn't want to straighten up the house, I was at my wits end and tired of inflicting myself on my few friends.

 

One new acquaintance and I have the 'reading spiritual books' thing in common. He kept telling me that past life regression and Edgar Cayce was the solution to my problems (there were some crying days in there). I explained (more than once) been there, done that, not the answer. He had raised his voice and I perceived him also retorting in an angry voice to some neutral remark I made about something mundane (a place to put stuff). I stopped talking to him and when I needed to (we both work at the same place once a week for a few hours), I heard my voice as flat and emotionless. And then the silence, like it always gets to when I am around people because I don't know what to say (or how to be) so they won't say or act in a way that hurts me, because I can't get around my hurt and be nice. I have had a hard time being in the world lately because I don't understand myself as well I as I used to. That's probably another reason I stopped posting here too. I couldn't think of anything nice to say to people I thought were having trouble, without giving advice and feeling hurt if they rejected it. Or having them give me advice.....

 

Somewhere in there I went through the exploration of 'my mother never loved me' thing and something broke apart inside me and our relationship changed. I broke my vow of never taking to her again (it started as "I'll never ask her to comfort me again"), there were tears and shouting from me and it ended up with 2 surprising things happening: she said "when are you going to drop the story that we didn't love you" and she put her arms around my hips while I was standing next to her and said "you are not pulling away like you usually do".

 

Say what? My mother knows about this stuff (the 'story'?) The pulling away was a surprise because I saw she was right. Later I asked her if I had always been this way (yes), even as a kid (yes) as a baby? (how should I know, I can't remember back that far was her reply). I am that way with everyone, never knew why. I think a lot of hurts to a very sensitive child had something to do with it.

 

So to get to the situation about advice giving and getting and not being loved. I thought I had realized this once and here it is again: my parents did the best they could. They did love me but it didn't look the way I thought it should for it to be real to me. Sometimes I just want some 'attention' from another human being because I am feeling so alone and hurt. But when I get 'advice' I am bewildered and confused because that is like telling me 'there's something wrong with you and if you would just do this you could fix yourself'. But why do I do the same thing to others when it doesn't work for me? (I may do what you suggest but in my own good time and if I do, I may tell you about and help you feel good about yourself in the process) but first, I have to make the experience 'mine'.

 

So what I found out a couple of days ago came after a little 'market research'. I started asking my confidantes "When I come to you and I am crying, do you feel the need to try to help me by giving advice?" Resounding agreement. Turns out I think we're wired that way. I just had some other personal concepts entangled with my need and I wasn't even clear what my 'need' was. So I do not have to fight against that situation anymore and I don't have to protect myself by holding myself away or being ill at ease in silence. I can do all sorts of things to handle advice now that I know what it is about, both the giving and receiving. I might try them all out and see what each feels like.

 

The book guy and I are talking easily now and so is mom. I have a few feelings that come up with her, I'll get to them in due time.....

[Petunia]

But the meditation thing, without a teacher? Ah, that just might have the possibility (or not) to draw blood. So I took my fears to the net and started searching for information. A great help was Adyashanti's book on the 'dark night' and some stuff on the Aloha Dharma site, also Shinzen's Youtube channel.

 

At first, I found Shinzen's videos helpful, but then I heard something, and I can't remember what it was, but it was like a little red flag popped up, telling me that he's not for me, not now.  The only alive online teacher I've found who consistently (to me) seems authentic is Adyashanti.  I think I've watched every video of his on youtube, but now, I only find his 'dark night' material helpful, but not even, because there really isn't any help to be had here, but he provides a certain validation.  Is that book called 'The End of your World"?  That's the one I got anyway.

 

Another problem I have with spiritual teachers is that there are so many now, all over the internet, claiming to be awake or enlightened and no longer living in duality, but then in a very dualistic way, turn the whole thing into a money making enterprise by writing books and charging huge sums of money for online consultations, courses and retreats.  I guess Adyashanti is no different. We all have to figure out how to live in this world, but there just seems something wrong about someone who manages to drop the world, but then picks it right back up and uses it to teach other people how to drop it.  Maybe that's the whole point of being able to drop it in the first place, it doesn't matter what you do after that.

 

I've been on this path a long time, with a 16 year break where I got married, got medicated and drugged the spiritual drive into oblivion.

 

But this is your thread, so I'm not going to write any more about me here.

 

I was surprised to read that your Mom asked you about dropping 'your story'.  It reminded me of something I heard, that the age of the guru and spiritual teacher is over and that now, our relationships with the people around us are beginning to be our teachers.  Did you then ask yourself who you would be without that story?

 

I did?  I asked myself who I would be without all my stories about not being loved and supported 'properly'.  Oops! Wasn't going to write about me

 

What you wrote about advice giving and advice receiving, that's a huge one for me too.  I struggle when I get it and struggle not to give it unless its specifically asked for.  From an absolute perspective, no one can really help anyone else anyway, and why would we want to if its all perfect just the way it is?  But relatively speaking, we all seem to need a lot of help, even if its just to be able to get to that placeless place of perfect oneness. 

 

...about the woo woo stuff -  I think, and I seem to have found from experience, that you get to a stage that its impossible to be sidetracked by it any more because it just doesn't work any more.  But while it does, its so nice, like a honeymoon, before reality sets in.

 

I should probably be writing on my own thread rather than interrupting your flow of consciousness musings with my own interpretations. 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Petu,

 

Please talk about yourself in my thread! That is why I started posting here again. I don't want to sound creepy about this but there is something about talking here that you and I (and maybe the lurkers) are resonating with that is the thing I am needing or wanting (and why no one else seems to be commenting). And because the content may be of use (or not) to others, I'd rather it not be in PM's or in your thread. For one, you are a mod. And your thread is about you and what you are about and since I am working on not being a 'fixer', I'd rather keep my comments here. Some people can beat you over the head with their interpretation of spiritual 'concepts' and it can hurt. I certainly have come off as bonking others in the past, especially if I think I am 'right'. If you want to talk about you in my thread you are sure welcome. I share what I have found out about the world and you shared some stuff that I wanted to talk about anyway. If it looks as though we are taking to each other then that's cool! In a non-dual sense (where I read some can get 'stuck in') it's only 'me' talking to 'me', right? That is why I did not want to find another board to talk about my experiences, I don't want to get caught up in non-dual word games (some comment threads on sites twist my head into knots! and do not contribute to the information I seek unless it is to show me that that I not how I want to come off sounding) and confuse my thinking. And maybe I am wrong about this but I think I learned somewhere that if I get my thoughts and feelings about my experiences out of my head and down on paper (bits of electrons seem to work just as well until the server goes belly up and I lose their content if I want to look back on it) they become more real and consolidate into 'knowing' (and then who cares if the server eats up my stuff). That is what I have been doing here, after a certain point.

 

It is eminently useful to me to pretend that no one is looking at me or caring about the content of my thoughts and experiences. The only judgements I have are in my own head if I keep my content here and out of others' spaces. Petu, it just occurred to me that you are like the concept in the Socratic Dialogues (I think, and other teachers use the question and answer method for instruction). Here, I can use 'you' and the person I am instructing or teaching is myself. And then consolidating the learning into knowing. I used some of the breadcrumbs you dropped to explore paths I didn't know existed until you pointed them out. And I got some great 'knowing"!

 

This is a very selfish thing I am doing, using this board to grow psychologically and spiritually. I am going to keep at it until I am shown the door.

[Petunia]

 

I'm not sure its true, that using this board to grow psychologically/spiritually is 'wrong'.  Especially because it was aspects of medication and withdrawal which launched you onto this path.

 

My guess is that a certain percentage of people, after going through this experience find themselves questioning some of the deeper issues of life.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Not so much 'wrong', but out of place maybe? I admit to not having finished reading all of the members threads, the ones who were here when it first started. Perhaps some of those reached the point that I have: off meds, feeling physically well and seeing a lot of the unwanted side effects that were due to meds gradually drop away (sugar cravings gone, excess weight dropping off, quality rest and sleep returned, etc) and I do not think I have been bruxing at night anymore. And what is left is dealing with the habitual 'old self' and it's ways of behaving that ended up having to use medication to cope. Although my path out and away from that mess won't look like theirs, it will have a lot of the same elements because it is a natural human progression (think maslow's heirarchy for example) to reach the spiritual questing stage. Where have those people gone after they left here and what happened to them? Somehow I stumbled on to this place and found out how therapeutic it was to get the contents out of my head out on "paper". I was pretty sure no one was reading it anyway. But it was like talking to a therapist, the perfect one. There are times that I see what I have typed and am flabbergasted to see that I have really 'gotten' a concept that I had been reading about. What I knew, way back in the beginning, was that I was going to have to do something to keep from getting deeply depressed so I wouldn't have to be medicated again. It involved learning good self care, mainly the physical stuff like diet, exercise. I went at them so hard that they blew up in my face! I found out that following all the 'good ideas' out there after years of never listening to my body anyway was just as bad. Brought on a relapse if intense anxiety. Ooops!

 

And then the mental care stuff. I started in on that with some 'good ideas'. I already wrote about the surprising goodies I got from that. Since I am still getting them, I am hooked. The spiritual stuff is intertwined with them and is hooking me more.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Sometimes all I can know if something I have done is working or not is to be aware of when my habitual reactions to situations or thoughts change. Since I don't know for sure if stuff is additive or cumulative and it is not clear cut, it's hard to know which technique to reach for when my present experience is not comfortable (after I have sat with it for some moments first). If I feel antsy I often play comp sol for a while and just observe what runs through my mind and try to be aware of what I feel in my body (particularly my gut). If I am alert, I can sometimes catch the tiny voice of my intuition.

 

For one, the palpitations bother me. I am always aware of the thumping in my chest, especially as I lay down to meditate. (sheesh, they stopped abruptly right after I wrote that sentence!) Tomorrow I go to the doc to get bloods drawn for a physical. They will either be there when he listens or not. It would be up to me to push for something like a holter monitor, even if he gives me no indication they are worrisome. Standard blood panels might or might not reveal anything that needs investigating (like thyroid) and if they come out normal it would be up to me if I want to have further tests to drill down in (like investigating vitamin deficiencies). So that might be causing anxiety.

 

Our community has new owners, I found out when I checked the mail yesterday. It confirmed something I saw a couple of weeks ago. I could find all sorts of reasons to let those thoughts yank me around and get all worked up over but I decided to just lay them aside until I got more information from the office today. Good news is, no rent increase yet.

 

So the little voice said "how do you know that feeling you get is not something else, like joy or excitement?" She's right! I am so used to labeling everything 'bad' that I probably don't always get it right. There are word lists for feelings out there, I got one from katie. I need to look at them and try 'good' ones on. They are useful for practicing something I got from a Teacher's site about dealing with difficult situations (untangling suffering with equanimity). Spiritual Alchemy. It's so funny how stuff fits itself together in my experience.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

While I am working on collecting my thoughts about the subject (dangers of meditation), I keep finding more stuff that is hooking me more and more into it. The term "dyschronometria" has been running through my head. I read the thread discussion on this board, headed off to wikipedia (where I spent a bit of time editing out an improper use of an apostrophe) and realized that my use of the term to describe an inner state might be wrong. It is actually a descriptive term or a disorder or a symptom of 'cerebral ataxia', a specific medical condition. So it doesn't really fit as a term for my confusion about how much time has passed between events.

 

Recently, I stopped posting for what I saw was close to 30 days. During that time no one commented in my thread. But as I looked back further, there were some posts from others during a time when my posting was not frequent. It seems as though a lifetime's worth of growth has happened in such a short time, that 30 day period was huge in shifting the furniture around in my mental house. (My physical house is another matter but is it really? I look around and see lots of changes....) The term 'dyschronometria' is not used in describing the state of 'flow', another weird time warp phenomenon. You can lose track of time in meditative states too. So I tried adding that to the search terms and ended up on tara brach's site and got some more good info. And then this, another meditation hook:

 

http://www.brainline.org/content/2009/12/the-role-of-mindfulness-meditation-and-prayer-after-brain-injury_pageall.html

 

I had found another after reading something on sh1nzen's site, about it can help with procrastination. Hook!

 

I got totally thrown for a loop when a meditation practice I was using ended up with me having some real strong suicidal thoughts. And there is the problem of some stages on the meditative 'path' that can look and feel like mental illness. (And the 'dark night' descriptions are really scary.) It is taking me a lot of searching and the only thing I can halfway find is that prople with psychological illnesses need the guidance of an experienced teacher to guide them through the rough stuff. I do not know if an online teacher can do this. It is scary to read about the experiences of others that have gone through this. I have my mom to take care of, to think about and I cannot do it effectively if 'awakening' happens and it looks weird and strange and like a 'mental illness'. It happens to some spontaneously and they are fine. And there are different states or degrees along the way where some people live from for long periods. (Petu, when you were talking about the moneymaking stuff it made me think of that.)

 

There is another piece to this but my my mind is distracted and doesn't like the heat from the laptop. It may not even need for me to write it out for me to get it. I completely stopped 'inquiry' and am now just doing what I would call 'meditation lite' (and hoping nothing weird happens.) giak had some delightful music I downloaded and I fall into it readily. I am trying not to notice or dwell upon the interesting movements of body, vibrations and the like which may be the movement of k. I am trying to trust that I'll be ok, that if I relax She can Dance through me and She knows what She is doing. Maybe the ones who get lost got distracted by the stuff and either stopped listening to Her or pulled back somehow? IDK. I don't think you can turn this stuff off.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I find the most delightful stuff: (if anyone is interested )

 

http://lazyyogi.org/tagged/faq and http://www.dhamma.org/en/art.shtml

 

Questions about depression and suicide in the first link (you can ignore the 'chemical imbalance' remark, really..... it is not important to the concept, he has probably not gotten the memo yet). The second was written by a Teacher who recently died. It's all the same concepts (meditation), worded and explained differently. I am starting to understand, gradually and more and more deeply. More delightful hooks. Storehousing delightful experiences, they will be the fuel I burn when the going really gets rough. And gathering knowledge is contributing to insight. I am making use of this empty time (very little work, no new customers) by learning and practicing instead of worrying and ruminating about stuff that hasn't happened yet. It still comes up, but is getting easier to let it pass without too much drama. Finding more peaceful moments.

[mammaP]

Hi CW, I'm glad you are finding some peaceful moments and experiencing something good and positive.

I think to be at peace, however fleeting, is more healing than anything else.  I hope that you find many

more peaceful times, you deserve them.  

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

mammaP, I am always delighted when you post in my thread! I love your new avatar (do they 'do' wind where you live?) and the addition you made to your sig.

 

I have to shamefully admit that I do not feel deserving of the peace I have been able to experience. We all deserve it, I know, but I cannot figure out how it has really happened, and I want it for everyone here. Those who are struggling (such as you) and for so long deserve it far more than I. I got all my information about what to do to help myself from this board and gia's site. My suffering during withdrawal was so short lived (Oct to about January), my mind has blotted out a lot of that period. Then the dreadful period around Easter that got me here. I did stuff and I feel better, so much better overall even during days where there has been extreme psychic pain. Lots of those....punctuated by just enough amazing moments that I just have to keep going. Surely this has happened to others, I am just not seeing it in the postings. Must be a peculiar blind spot.

 

I wanted to post about my visit to the doc (my heart palps have mysteriously disappeared) but I am tired tonight. I am already ready for bed and it's early.

[mammaP]

You deserve peace just as much as anyone else and I hope it continues for you!

 

We certainly do have wind power here, the picture is from where I used to live, the turbines towered over us

majestically. I always found them calming and therapeutic but not everyone feels the same way.. My little grandson 

asks me about them every time I see him and I have to show him my photos and videos. At nursery he drew me a

picture of "windmillbines"  which look like flowers with tufts of grass at the bottom. It was lovely as he was only 3 :-D 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Thanks for the encouragement, mammaP!

 

There are times when I wish I would have kept a written journal of what has happened if only that it would be easier to describe what I did, what happened and how things have changed. The posters on this board speak of dreadful states of being that I have gone through, both physical and mental. In the past few months I have seen very clearly how the mental anguish actually feels (and where I feel it in my body) and when it goes away how dramatic the difference is. I feel more 'space' in my head and chest and that area where I feel anxiety (my gut) is way quieter now. I had to work to get to this point but the funny thing is, I didn't know that I was 'working' at it, if that makes any sense. And it seems like I did not do much, really, and that is why my thought of being undeserving comes in.

 

I got sidetracked by the notion of 'enlightenment' and desperately wanted something to happen because I saw it as an end to my suffering. I read a lot about it, listened to Teachers on yout00be and batg@p and yearned for it to happen. I found that one can get their mind pretty messed up in the 'intellectualizing' of spiritual states. it is true that this special state happens to some as a result of extreme mental suffering (tolle and katie, for example) and it also happens to some who have done nothing for it to happen. But that is rare and if it does occur a life can get pretty disrupted when it happens. Reading about experiences like this set up a great deal of fear inside me. I have my mom to look after.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I did a lot of searching for information (for Petu: yes, that was the book I read from @adya) and the nearest I could figure out, one should proceed with a qualified teacher. I kind of live in Podunk and I wondered where I could find a teacher. Had made my mind up to do an online meditation class. In the mean time, I had started meditating on my own and it was pretty simple how it all fell into place. I used the music thru headphones and just concentrated on relaxing while still being aware of all the sounds. I found some information on different postures and found the perfect one: lying on my back on my bed, knees up with feet flat (keeps you from falling asleep). And if mom walks into my area (my bed is in the living/dining/kitchen of our 1 bedroom mobile) it just looks like I am resting my back. The music tracks were approx 25 minutes so I did it twice a day. Simply delightful!

 

A couple days of this and I am feeling better, for some reason. Did some more searching and found out there actually IS a once a week class about an hours drive away. A part of Mindfulness Meditation Center (FL & CO). I logged on to the main website and started listening to the intro to mindfulness classes and learned a bit more about it. Stopped using the music and just breathed. Went to the class on Sunday. Yup, I am right where I am supposed to be.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I was wanting to note my progression from just reading about stuff to actually trying meditation and the effects it has had in just such a short time, but it seems I am not doing a good job. It has helped with behavior problems, thinking and rumination and worry, that's for sure. It has actually produced changes that medication never could. But I sit in front of this posting window and cannot put my thoughts into working sentences.

 

There are many books on meditation (and a gazillion websites!) but one I have found helpful is 'Meditation in Plain English'. It can be purchased from the usual suspects (@mazon) or can be downloaded for free (search for mpe zip). I got the best advice from this one concerning the 'weird stuff'. Which is, 'Don't worry about it'. Kundal1ni? heart chakras and palpitations? (they are still coming and going), vivid dreams? (like the airplane one, just means meditation is working), all of this stuff, just don't worry about it. I don't need to analyze my dreams and I don't need to spend any more time trying to recall what happened to me 8 years ago that got me onto ADs.

 

I downloaded a little app for my phone from insight that is a meditation timer. I started using it when I stopped using the music. Makes it a little more of a formal 'practice'. What I found out is that the goal (and meditation has no goal, really) is NOT a state of NO THOUGHTS. Thoughts are a part of what it means to be a human. Vipassana meditation is a dispassionate examination of the contents of mind. Just that.

 

As I look back to earlier in the summer, I started meditating without even knowing it when I started practicing the power of now from tolle's book. It took a great deal of effort to just experience even just short moments of 'presence' but somehow I was able to do it. My mind is no less chaotic than anyone else's just because I am not currently battling physical wd symptoms. In that book was the first concrete step for me on what to do, he actually spelled it out. I just got a little sidetracked with the other stuff. But you try to practice 'presence' for even as short a time as one minute out of every hour and by the end of the day you have actually done 15 minutes or so of meditation! Doing this actually led to me making it into a regular 'practice' and starting a class.

 

I would guess at this point that I am probably on a 'pink cloud'. It's ok, having it be nice in the beginning will be the impetus to keep going when it gets rough. And rough it will be the more the contents of my mind reveal themselves. But right now the biggest benefit I notice is the relative infrequence of 'sticky' thoughts. Those thoughts that spiral around a topic and cause my feelings to become prominent: tightness and pressure in the head, stomach muscles tightening and a feeling of anxiety in my stomach. I can have those feelings any time I want by just listening to TV or reading the comment sections of websites. I have actually had my TV off for about a month now but occasionally I hear mom's.

 

So what am I doing with the free time I have because I am not ruminating and worrying and endlessly searching for relief on the internet? Moving a lot more slowly, taking walks, staring at clouds, cleaning up the house (in tiny bits), getting ready for a craft show (!). Doing the jobs I have scheduled. I am adding a second volunteer job to the 3 hour a week one I already started. Short outings with friends. Just the stuff of daily life. But it seems so different without all the mental and emotional uproar. Nice.

[mammaP]

It's lovely that you are starting to enjoy things again CW, and great that you are going out with friends.

A craft show? I am jealous !! Don't forget to tell us about it afterwards, you will have a whale of a time! 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Oh mammaP, things have been not so good the past couple of days, I read your comment and your thread about the Northern lights last night and a was cheered a bit but really felt so bad I wasn't in the mood to talk it out in a post.

 

The craft show is Nov. 2 and I actually entered it more for a friend and not myself. It is at a local church and we will be sharing a table. Been putting off actually getting started on making stuff and last night realized I'd better get busy, it is about 20 days away! I have been a bit hampered by not having a proper work space to set out my beads but I know that is just an excuse to put it off. I find it so difficult to just make things without lapsing into judgements about how terrible they are or going off into airy fairy dreaming about how popular they are.

 

Last night I completed a bit more furniture arranging - put the recliner I had been sitting in for 4 years out into the screen porch. It became so uncomfortable to sit in and no wonder, it was compressed and hard from the 50 extra pounds I gained from being on the ADs. I brought in one of the wicker chairs and practiced sitting in it and it was terrible! Been slouching for nearly all of my life in chairs, draping myself in them with my feet propped up one way or another and to sit with my feet down on the floor is so uncomfortable. A footrest helps as I am too short for nearly all chairs but the killer is my back! The screaming pain in the muscles of my mid back was terrible last night, even after only sitting for half an hour.

 

But I am back at it again today, I made my bed and plan on staying off it unless it is to sleep. I'd been using it as a chair, reclining on a backrest with my feet out and laptop on my lap, telling myself it was comfortable. My butt is already uncomfortable in this chair and I want to climb back into bed to comfort. But this is one area I have set myself as a goal, learning to sit up straight and use furniture like a grown-up. No more eating in bed, I can sit at my chair with a table or use the desk, now that it is out of my mom's room and back in my living area. I have slacked off on getting outside again, no kayaking or taking walks and a sore butt should be a good reminder not to spend so much time sitting. You don't notice a sore butt lounging in bed....

 

I have a window open and also the slider to the screen porch! The weather is finally turning cooler and the days of living in A/C 24/7 are coming to an end. Definitely perks my mood up and I have my nice new windows just itching to open and let fresh air in. It definitely helps bring my mood up a notch. For 2 days I have felt ill at ease, right after posting that I was feeling well. Even my meditation sessions felt awful (especially this morning). Yesterday, endlessly thinking of people in my life who have died or thinking of the people who are here now being gone. And then myself, falling ill or becoming incapacitated to the point where all I can do is lie in a bed, unable to move.

 

Sometime this month is my first anniversary day of going off the ADs. Since I can't remember the day I use the day that I went to the ER as my starting point. I am getting depression thoughts again and they feel terrible, especially when I realize that I have to deal with them without falling back into medication. I have to go forward, not backward, live through things as they happen knowing that the medication safety net is not there anymore. Their return and my noticing of them has made me very uncomfortable, I hear the helpless pleading in my thoughts and realize it won't work anymore.

 

There is great literature, the scientific studies on the benefits of meditation which are realized in as little as 8 weeks of consistently applied effort. Though it has been longer, I started keeping track only a week ago with the phone app. I'll reserve judgement till I have tried it at least that long.......