☼ Cymbaltawithdrawal5600: Introduction

[nz11]

Glad to see this thread has been unlocked and kept active.

You were missed already!

[Marsha]

I also would like to say i am relieved that your thread is unlocked. Please let us know how you are doing if you can.

[WiggleIt]

CW.... Hi. I have been gone for a while and it looks like you have to.

 

I don't know what you've been going through, but I hope it hasn't been hell.

[India]

@cymbaltawithdrawal5600 Any update?

 

[BelaLugosi]

On 4/11/2016 at 9:27 PM, cymbaltawithdrawal5600 said:

Hell

 

From that moment on I would stay and move into my parents house for about one year. I couldn't work anymore, I couldn't focus anymore, I had changed from a selfconfident grown man into an extremely anxious pitiful creature, locked up inside, not able to function anymore. I got more then terrified, I couldn't rationalize anymore, I just couldn't bring my thoughts to the right proportions, and believe me, you would be terrified too, cause you think you're going crazy, out of your mind. It was very difficult for my parents, but they've cared for me as good as possible in that period, not really understanding what had happened to me and not able to properly communicate with me.

The first 14 days I went straight into hell, just pure and plain hell. My body, my nervous system, became extremely hypersensitive and totally out of control. It's difficult to explain but I wasn't in control anymore but my brains were, sending signals of pain throughout of my whole body. It was the most frightening experience in my whole life. My body felt as if it was turned inside out. I was so afraid and I had no idea if there was coming any relief of this. I did not committed suicide, but I don't know what I had done if that bit of a relief didn't came after 14 days. My ego (what you think you are) blew away into pieces. Boundaries that belonged to my personality structure were far exceeded. It's an intrusion of your integrity that is not easily to describe but I'll try to explain: I had thoughts and emotions that were not mine, thoughts and emotions that didn't belong to my personality, my character, that which makes me the person I am. Thoughts that were racing in my head like "resonating clouds of gas". The thoughts were extremely immoral, offensive, negative and from a selfdestructive kind. I was embarrassed by these thoughts and so afraid, not able to stop them. The thoughts were extremely clear and strong, I actually could "hear" the thoughts and it's very difficult to explain how that's like, but "resonating clouds of gas" fits the closest description. It's through this experience that I can better understand now how a phenomenon such as telepathy might work.

Next to it I experienced exaggerated feelings of compunction. I "condemned" myself for "sins" from my childhood. The emotions that came up were horrible with thoughts like: "how do you think to live on with this ?", again, I just couldn't rationalize anymore, as responsible as "I" made myself for these "sins". In my mind I also could "see" symbols (and you have to understand that I saw it very clearly, like in a very vivid dream experience), symbols that scared the **** out of me, spires (like in the dark ages), people with masks, etc., all kind of bizarre and scrappy. I got oversensitive for coffee, herbs, etc.. I had become extremely hypersensitive to light and sound, which caused me pain upon top of my head, symptoms you can best compare with meningitis. My neck muscles were heavily contracted. I couldn't watch any movie with more or less contained violence. It scared me, my nervoussystem just couldn't bear it.

Nightmares
Nightmares that I experienced were horrible, violent, frightening and so realistic that after awakening it took me some time to realize that I was already awake, and that this was a nightmare, not happening in real-time. That was another symptom: the filter between my sense of reality and my dreams got blurred. I felt like I was in a dream-like state (locked up inside) and couldn't woke up from it. I still have this symptom occasionaly, after 4 years now. In one of the nightmares I was raped by a good friend of mine, it was all so horrible. Can you imagine someone very close to you, you really know well, you care for this individual's integrity and you have a realistic nightmare being raped by this person. Then you "wake up" from this nightmare not realizing that you are awake already. Sometimes at night I woke up with such pressure on my chest (it litterly felt as if someone was pushing on my chest) that I had difficulty with breathing. A lot of nights I even did not dare to sleep alone. My heartbeats were heavy and up-speeded along with the excessive sweating of my body, especially at night. I really do not understand why I did not drove in panic to the hospital at some nights, but I just didn't. At some nights I didn't dare to sleep at all, because of the realistic nightmares that gave me a feeling as if something evil did came over me. I was also afraid to wake up being totally paralyzed, and the feeling of this being possible was very strong. It felt like anything could happen, I wasn't in control anymore, but my prozac-influenced brain was!

"Recovery"
After 14 days I discovered a little light at the end of the tunnel. After 40 days the burning "electricity pain" (electrified feeling) in my body had slightly changed in an all embracing itch, which appeared to be a blessing compared with the hell of inner nerve pain. The "resonating clouds of gas" thoughts in my head, slightly changed into a feeling of a "stone" in my head. This "stone" goes accompanied with contractions in my forehead and radiates behind my nose to my fore teeth.

After those 4 years now, the "stone" as well as the contractions are still returning when I work behind a computerscreen (indeed right now). After those 4 years I still experience occasionaly shivering of my body and twitching and jerking in my legs. After those 4 years I still experience a kind of aliënation from my emotions. It feels like you've lost a part of yourself and some untrustable stranger substitutes that part. I'm just glad that I can live a "normal" life right now. I'm still bitter, who's gonna give me back what I've lost? The battle I'm still fighting to win, is to win myself back again, which means: the complete and trusted feeling of "self" I once used to have!

 

this is REALLY relatable

[MrMiyagi]

Hello Cymbaltswithdrawl5600,

      How is your recovery going what symptoms are gone now? any updates on remaining symptoms? 

 

Thank You 🙏🏼 

[Pepms]

Does anyone have @cymbaltawithdrawal5600 contact information ? he said he left it in his profile but cant find it, thanks!

[Guest]

On 12/22/2021 at 5:55 AM, BelaLugosi said:

 

this is REALLY relatable

Yes, I experiencing this right now. And I hope it will go away

[Ariel]

@cymbaltawithdrawal5600

I've been feasting on your thread.  

Wish you were here. 

I like to think of you out there chopping wood, carrying water. 

Hope you're well, wherever you are. 

Thank you for everything <3

[Guest]

Is it possible to contact her, I can’t find any information on her profile?

[Ariel]

I've noticed that the following post from this thread seems to be quite popular.

 

Please note that it is not cymbaltawithdrawal5600's (whose thread this is) own personal account; rather, they are QUOTING a post from another website where someone else tells their story. The author of that story is credited as CG from The Netherlands. 

 

cymbaltawithdrawal5600 references CG's story as one of two items that has helped cw5600 the most throughout WD recovery, calling it the "only success story I needed to read when I got here". 

 

cw5600's original comment is here

 

The entirety of cw5600's post, incl. CG's story, follows:

 

On 4/11/2016 at 6:27 PM, cymbaltawithdrawal5600 said:

Getting my thread ready:

 

 

The only success story I needed to read when I got here, now reposted courtesy of the Wayback Machine. I decided to post it here in my thread, someone else can copy it to the thread where it belongs. The internet is becoming a wasteland because of 'link rot'. I have bleeped out the name as this person long ago asked that it be removed from their story. To me this is the most famous of the 'pioneers' who figured out what happened, stopped the drugs and recovered. All grammar and spelling courtesy of the original poster. It used to be on the site but was removed some time ago. It's a fabulous resource (this story) that should be maintained. The site itself is still alive but not being added to as far as I know.

 

 

 

My Prozac (Sarafem, fluoxetine) Experience.
A Prozac-induced "Brain/Body-Crash" at the age of 29
I had thoughts and emotions that were not mine, thoughts and emotions that didn't belong to my personality, my character, that which makes me the person I am. Thoughts that were racing in my head like "resonating clouds of gas"...

 

Introduction
My name is CG and reside in Amsterdam, The Netherlands. I am 33 years of age, as of this time of writing, May 6, 2000. After 4 years I feel it's time to tell about my Prozac experience that has changed my belief system as well as my entire way of living. I think this experience will haunt me for the rest of my life and I think I'm ready to face that fact now. I've tried to "just forget it" in all kinds of ways, but as it feels, it's like once you've been there, there is no return. I have a few good friends who are really trying to understand me in this feeling, but I also know that's too much asked from them. I arrived at the place were I really wish to meet and talk to other Prozac/SSRI Survivors and I hope this story will be the start of this.

Prescription
In february 1994 I visited my family doctor (GP) and told him about my depression because of a stranded relationship. Because I had heard and read about the "magnificant new wonderdrug" Prozac and it's far fewer side effects then other anti-depressants I asked him for a prescription. There was no need for any form of psychotherapy because I knew very well the background of my depression and besides it wasn't that bad. If I had only knew then, what I know now, I wasn't depressed at all, I was feeling down and I just wanted to feel better, happy, not sad. -later a real depression would hit me hard after being under prozac's influence-. My family doctor prescribed Prozac 20 mg daily. About 5 to 6 times I took a monthly "cure" of Prozac 20 mg daily with intervals of a few months. My first response on Prozac was pretty good, I became more active, but looking back on that period I also became more reckless and naive, less bright and focused on my environment (people and circumstances). I was completely convinced of the innocence of this product and believed that it could actually help me feeling better. The only side effects that it gave me at first were some flu-like symptoms (a bit shaky), some nerve twitching beneath my right eye and a dry mouth, nothing very serious. My dream recall increased tremendously and they were more rich and vivid then ever. I've ended the last "cure" of Prozac (30 days) in april 1996.

Attack
On friday the 2nd of August 1996 (about 4 months later) I went to my family doctor for another 30 day prescription of Prozac because I still felt somewhat down these last few months. I took one pill that afternoon and went out of town to pay a visit to my parents. While driving in my car for about a half an hour, I suddenly felt a strange kind of dizziness in my head. I felt inconstant contractions to be followed by a very painfull stitch at the right side on top of my head, then followed by a sensation as if a bloodstream went down on my forehead. A milky mist came down upon my eye sight, although I still kept my vision, thank God. From my neck an extremely burning sensation radiated throughout of my whole body, especially my spine, arms and legs. My whole body felt like burning inside. Then a stiffening of my body followed and I had a constant feeling of "electricity pain" in my whole body. My body felt electrified, constantly! It's very hard to explain this feeling, but it's like goose-flesh so much intensified that it hurts extremely and keeps your body tensed...constantly! (-I did not had the comfortable feeling of a warm body anymore that belonged to me, but a "body" consisting of "wires" connected to electricity-)

I drove my car upon the verge and came in a state of shock. I remember that my first thought was: "It's over, this is a stroke and parts of my body will be paralyzed". Then I realized that couldn't be the case cause I could still move my body parts and I could still talk, but inside I was completely panic-stricken. What is happening to me? My God what if this won't go away? "I must keep my head cool, stay calm and drive on" were my thoughts.

I only parked for a few seconds upon that verge to check if I was still able to drive the car and drove on in the direction of my parents house. The whole incident, from the start of feeling dizzy, till the drove on to my parents, lasted less then 1 or 2 minutes. It took one Prozac-attack to blew away my comfortable feeling of self, of me in my body! The milky mist that came down upon my eye sight would stay for days. First thing I did when arriving at my parents house was immediately phoning the family doctor who tried to convince me that this was just some side effects I was going through and I should keep on taking the Prozac, which I did not, because in the state I was in, this "stuff" just had to leave my system, immediately! I've contacted 5 other doctors (amongst them a neurologist) who all said that if this indeed appeared to be a Prozac induced side effect at all, it would certainly pass within a few days. It did not! It continued and grew worse. I was so scared, I was so shocked and unknown of what had happened to me, and the responding of the doctors knocked me out. Physically and mentally I became a wreck, fractured. All I could do was lay down and trying to sleep.

Hell
From that moment on I would stay and move into my parents house for about one year. I couldn't work anymore, I couldn't focus anymore, I had changed from a selfconfident grown man into an extremely anxious pitiful creature, locked up inside, not able to function anymore. I got more then terrified, I couldn't rationalize anymore, I just couldn't bring my thoughts to the right proportions, and believe me, you would be terrified too, cause you think you're going crazy, out of your mind. It was very difficult for my parents, but they've cared for me as good as possible in that period, not really understanding what had happened to me and not able to properly communicate with me.

The first 14 days I went straight into hell, just pure and plain hell. My body, my nervous system, became extremely hypersensitive and totally out of control. It's difficult to explain but I wasn't in control anymore but my brains were, sending signals of pain throughout of my whole body. It was the most frightening experience in my whole life. My body felt as if it was turned inside out. I was so afraid and I had no idea if there was coming any relief of this. I did not committed suicide, but I don't know what I had done if that bit of a relief didn't came after 14 days. My ego (what you think you are) blew away into pieces. Boundaries that belonged to my personality structure were far exceeded. It's an intrusion of your integrity that is not easily to describe but I'll try to explain: I had thoughts and emotions that were not mine, thoughts and emotions that didn't belong to my personality, my character, that which makes me the person I am. Thoughts that were racing in my head like "resonating clouds of gas". The thoughts were extremely immoral, offensive, negative and from a selfdestructive kind. I was embarrassed by these thoughts and so afraid, not able to stop them. The thoughts were extremely clear and strong, I actually could "hear" the thoughts and it's very difficult to explain how that's like, but "resonating clouds of gas" fits the closest description. It's through this experience that I can better understand now how a phenomenon such as telepathy might work.

Next to it I experienced exaggerated feelings of compunction. I "condemned" myself for "sins" from my childhood. The emotions that came up were horrible with thoughts like: "how do you think to live on with this ?", again, I just couldn't rationalize anymore, as responsible as "I" made myself for these "sins". In my mind I also could "see" symbols (and you have to understand that I saw it very clearly, like in a very vivid dream experience), symbols that scared the **** out of me, spires (like in the dark ages), people with masks, etc., all kind of bizarre and scrappy. I got oversensitive for coffee, herbs, etc.. I had become extremely hypersensitive to light and sound, which caused me pain upon top of my head, symptoms you can best compare with meningitis. My neck muscles were heavily contracted. I couldn't watch any movie with more or less contained violence. It scared me, my nervoussystem just couldn't bear it.

Nightmares
Nightmares that I experienced were horrible, violent, frightening and so realistic that after awakening it took me some time to realize that I was already awake, and that this was a nightmare, not happening in real-time. That was another symptom: the filter between my sense of reality and my dreams got blurred. I felt like I was in a dream-like state (locked up inside) and couldn't woke up from it. I still have this symptom occasionaly, after 4 years now. In one of the nightmares I was raped by a good friend of mine, it was all so horrible. Can you imagine someone very close to you, you really know well, you care for this individual's integrity and you have a realistic nightmare being raped by this person. Then you "wake up" from this nightmare not realizing that you are awake already. Sometimes at night I woke up with such pressure on my chest (it litterly felt as if someone was pushing on my chest) that I had difficulty with breathing. A lot of nights I even did not dare to sleep alone. My heartbeats were heavy and up-speeded along with the excessive sweating of my body, especially at night. I really do not understand why I did not drove in panic to the hospital at some nights, but I just didn't. At some nights I didn't dare to sleep at all, because of the realistic nightmares that gave me a feeling as if something evil did came over me. I was also afraid to wake up being totally paralyzed, and the feeling of this being possible was very strong. It felt like anything could happen, I wasn't in control anymore, but my prozac-influenced brain was!

"Recovery"
After 14 days I discovered a little light at the end of the tunnel. After 40 days the burning "electricity pain" (electrified feeling) in my body had slightly changed in an all embracing itch, which appeared to be a blessing compared with the hell of inner nerve pain. The "resonating clouds of gas" thoughts in my head, slightly changed into a feeling of a "stone" in my head. This "stone" goes accompanied with contractions in my forehead and radiates behind my nose to my fore teeth.

After those 4 years now, the "stone" as well as the contractions are still returning when I work behind a computerscreen (indeed right now). After those 4 years I still experience occasionaly shivering of my body and twitching and jerking in my legs. After those 4 years I still experience a kind of aliënation from my emotions. It feels like you've lost a part of yourself and some untrustable stranger substitutes that part. I'm just glad that I can live a "normal" life right now. I'm still bitter, who's gonna give me back what I've lost? The battle I'm still fighting to win, is to win myself back again, which means: the complete and trusted feeling of "self" I once used to have!

Support and Warnings
I know I'm not alone, I'm just one of many, a Prozac Survivor, an SSRI Survivor. I do wish to meet a lot of others now who are also SSRI Survivors. Here in the Netherlands I've had a tremendous support by Frank van Meerendonk, the founder of the Prozac Survivors Support Group (PSSG) in The Netherlands. He has gathered an abundance of information concerning SSRI's, horrendous experiences, trials and neurological research.

It's shocking to know that there are so many individuals on SSRI's nowadays in 2000 - about 40.000.000 worldwide on Prozac, not to mention the other SSRI's- after so many victims crying out to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Children have become targets too now. SSRI's are already being prescribed to children at the age of 6. The myth of "ADHD" has made it possible for them being drugged with Ritalin or Dexedrine which are Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitors. The actions of these drugs are comparable to the actions of Cocaine or Speed (Amphetamine) and we all know what these type of drugs are capable of.

There is NO excuse for the pharmaceutical industry, producing these type of mind- altering drugs, commercializing them, creating copy-cat Prozac-clones, with a cute selling name, but with the SAME diabolical effect, working on the SAME serotonergic and related dopaminergic system in the brain....Prozac, Sarafem, Paxil, Seroxat, Zoloft, Lustral, Luvox, Fevarin, Celexa, Cipramil, Anafranil, Meridia, Effexor, Desyrel, Serzone, Remeron, Redux, Fen-Phen, etc.....

In September 1997 the serotonin acting diet-drugs Redux and Fen-Phen had to be withdrawn by the FDA because of their serious life-threatening side-effects, damaging the brain, heart and lungs. When will other serotonin boosting drugs follow the same example? Too much serotonin is definitely something to avoid. It is important to educate the future generation about the inheritance of these so called anti-depressants or Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors.

 

By CG
The Netherlands
May 6, 2000

 

It seems that the author CG's original post is here. It is dated May 6, 2000. 

Note that CG is not an SA member and their story was published on another website, full address: http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2000-05-06-prozac-experience.htm

 

(the info about CG's original post obtained from nz11's comment here)

 

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Frogie
Ariel asked for someone to delete last line

[Ariel]

In addition to the above, cw5600 mentions one other item that was indispensable to them in their recovery. 

It is the article now commonly known as What is happening in your brain? 

This is a help topic that many of us know and love; it is often referenced by the mods.

The author of the original article is anonymous. 

 

cw5600's original comment is here

 

The entirety of cw5600's post follows:

 

On 4/12/2016 at 11:00 PM, cymbaltawithdrawal5600 said:

Article #2 for my thread prep:

 

Although this was posted waaaaay after I was through the most brutal part of withdrawal (the second phase, not the initial) when I read this I intuitively knew that if you could read this and GET IT, you'd have the battle halfway won. I knew if I waited I'd catch someone reading it and that's how I found it today.

 

Begin very long quote so I am not using a quote box:

 

Posted 03 December 2015 - 07:41 AM

 

This was sent to me by one of our members who asked me to post it.  It was written in the context of benzo withdrawal, but I believe it is equally applicable to the healing process of AD withdrawal (or, as the author puts it, "recovery").  This is very uplifting at least it was for me.  It is long but, in my view, worth it.

 

 

This will hopefully be an encouraging email to make you feel SAFE and ENCOURAGED.

As some of you may know, my degrees are in speech-language pathology (B.A and M.S.)
As part of my Masters study, a big portion of my classes were in neuroanatomy and physiology. 
I learned firsthand how to look at a person who had just undergone a stroke or brain injury and read the symptoms, the radiology reports, the doctor's notes,  and based on those symptoms, to form an image in my mind of what was affected in the brain injury - as well as how to formulate a treatment plan to help that person rehabilitate. For a therapist in a hospital, it is much more than "speech and language". It is about reteaching how to swallow, eat,  rebuilding memory, rebuilding concentation and attention, rebuilding focus, rebuilding executive functioning skills (planning and acting on a plan) -pretty much ANYTHING that is involved in "thinking" that helps you get OUT of a coma, OUT of a hospital, and back to life, work, and school.  

I had NO idea I would ever personally undergo a brain injury.  But insomuch as I have now indeed endured one, I often laid there in waves and attempted to "analyze and decipher" what was happening in my brain as I healed. I thought you all might like to read this. It gives potential answers to all the "WHY?" questions we have about what is happening to us mentally.

First of all, a TRUTH to accept is that WE HEAL.  I have seen people emerge from comas who cannot remember who they are - HEAL. 
They can't remember how to walk (we do).
They can't write their names (we can).
They cannot tell you the year or the president (I was SO bad I was unsure of this at times, but generally, I was oriented to this).
They often cannot remember family members (we can -our D/R can be hideous, but we remember them). 
THEY have to work through many hours of therapy to heal. But most of them do - and from TRAUMATIC PHYSICAL brain trauma that can tear tissue and tear nerves. 
We have none of that. We don't have to undergo therapy. We simply have to wait.

Most of us, me included, didn't expect the temporary "brain injury" we got when jumping off benzos.
But I am starting to realize through my own experience and my educational background, that there is a PURPOSE in every symptom we have.  I have had months and months to analyze what is likely going on in the brain at a gross level - and I want to attempt to explain certain symptoms in a way that we can visualize - so that they are less "scary" and more "telling" of the healing that is happening.

First off - let's start with GABA and Glutamate. Most of you may know how this works by this point. But for those that don't, we have a huge nervous system of millions of nerves (neurons).  They don't "touch" each other. They are separated by a tiny space in between. However, they communicate via chemicals. The 2 MAIN chemicals in the entire nervous system are the BIG GUNS.  They are GABA and Glutamate. They are BOTH at work at ALL times in the CNS.  It isn't like one is working and then the other is working. They are BOTH ALWAYS working in tandem to control every aspect of movement, sensation  - everything. They take the incoming information and appropriately pass it along - they "trim up" the information appropriately so that we can process it.  They are like the steel structure of a building.  The entire building needs a steel structure to stand.  

GABA is inihibitory.  If a nerve releases GABA - it is to Inhibit function - this could be to "slow it down" or it could be to "limit the sensory input" so that we can process it.  In the same way, GABA might be released to help "steady" your hand while doing something like painting a very detailed painting.  GABA "shores up" movements to make them more fluid.   That's just in a nutshell. Of COURSE it does a lot more than this, but the idea is that GABA is present in the ENTIRE CNS and ALWAYS working to balance every sensation, movement, etc.

Likewise, Glutamate is the balance to GABA. It is the "excitatory" transmitter. It fires to speed things up - to initiate action - to make things "go".  There's a lot more to it, but Glutamate is kinda the opposite of GABA.   

BOTH are required to work at all times.  Neurons are ALL ALWAYS firing off GABA and Glutamate on a endless cycle all throughout the nervous system. It's quite amazing really.

What does a benzo do?  If a person is anxious - they may be so stressed that they cannot overcome a very traumatic event or anxious situation.  If a doctor prescribes a benzo - the benzo comes in and sorta "holds the door open" for ALL the GABA in the system to FLOOD into the nerves - even when that is not what the nerves would actually want to occur. The immediate effect is that EVERYTHING ni the body SLOWS DOWN and is inhibited. This might be helpful during surgery, for anesthesia, for a seizure disorder.  Yes - the benzo - by definition - will act on GABA and "slow everything down".  And yes - the net effect of this is that a person may feel drowsy, calm, less anxious... everything is being inhibited.    And in general, taking a benzo for "one day"  is okay. When the benzo is gone, the body just reverts back to regular operation. 
HOWEVER, if a person takes a benzo day after day,  while indeed the person feels less anxious, the body begins to realize that it cannot DO the things it needs to do in this very slowed-down neuron state. It cannot make hormones. It cannot create enzymes. It cannot digest correctly. It cannot keep a heart going efficiently. It cannot get enough oxygen- and on and on. The body NEEDS to run at "normal" speed - not this "inhibited speed" all slowed down.  
But what can the body do? It cannot "remove the benzo" from the system. The only choice the body has to maintain a regular speed is to do two things ..  It can TURN OFF it's own GABA receptors - thereby rendering those benzos unable to affect the GABA in the system. And it can grow MORE excitatory Glutamate receptors to counteract the slow-down.  And that's kinda exactly what happens....

Only - this isn't true balance either.  The body does the best it can - but over time, things begin to suffer.  The body cannot make enough serotonin in this state. Or dopamine. Some things get made in excess - and other things do not get made enough!  During this time, a person may not be aware this is all going on. He may not be able to perceive any difference. But ONE day - the person may wake up sad - or not sleeping well - or unable to remember things fully - or his vision doesn't look right....and it becomes apparent the person has "hit tolerance".  The body is taking the same amount of drug -but try as it might, it just cannot overcome what has occured. It can take weeks, months or years to hit tolerance. Some people do and some don't before trying to get off benzos.  (I did. - it took me 9 months to hit tolerance.  But it was fast.  Once I hit it, I could notsleep more than 6 hours on all that klonopin AND Ambien! I couldn't remember things last week. I was crying all the time... something was wrong.)

The process to reverse this takes a while.  GABA receptors have to UPregulate and effectively "reopen" or "grow back".  Glutamate receptors must DOWNregulate, or effectively "turn off" or "prune back".  And IN this mix, all the smaller monoamines (neurotransmitters like serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine) must somehow find a way to synthesize in the mix.  Through weeks and months the body is rebuildling millions of neurons, and changing pathways, rebuilding GABA, downregulating Glutamate, rebuilding serotonin, rebuilding dopamine, rebuilding norepinephrine.  And ALL the enzymes and hormones that need to be made are attempting to be made while this is going on.  Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR streel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.  
And just like the Twin Towers- it's possible - but the buiding is a major effort -and it takes a good year or more sometimes. 
(Now look at the new Tower that stands at Ground Zero!  It's taller, stronger, and a symbol of freedom.  JUST like you will be! )

So - okay - what is happening in that chaos?  What parts of the brain are responsible for these symptoms?  

Now, I don't "know" the following based on research, because not enough research has been done yet  - but based on my studies in neuroanatomy and my own withdrawal experiences, here is how I have analyzed what is "happening" during wave symptoms. Remember, I have had to look at radiology reports of brain damage and estimate what a patient might present with - so this is very similar. Instead of a radiology report showing me what has been damaged, I'm using my own brain symptoms to surmise what is going on....

Let me first list brain structures and their functions. This will help you understand where things happen in the brain and when symptoms occur, what may be happening.

BRAIN STRUCTURES 
- amygdala  - This is the FEAR center in the brain. It's a tiny part in the middle of your brain. Fear is protective and it's GREAT if you need to assess something that is dangerous and to ACT  - like if a rabid dog were chasing you. - but it's hard in recoveyr when it's all you feel for months! But the FEAR is not truly in your MIND. It's in your BRAIN.  There is too much glutamate acting here in the amygdala and not enough GABA. So the nerves are firing off in the fear center when nothing scary is really there in your environment.  It is normal for that to happen given the circumstance physiologically. But it feels awful, doesn't it?  I know.  But it's just a brain structure. This can account for fear, agoraphobia, fear of water, fear of anything.  It's not that you're really "scared" of the moon - it's that you're in almost constant fear because this brain structure is healing. The glutamate is pruning back. The GABA receptors are opening back up.  It may or may not continue for awhile. It will abate. Then come back. But eventually, the brain will get it right.  

-Hippocampus - This is the "memory" center of the brain. It ties in old memories to emotions.  The same thing is happening here that is happening in the amygdala with GABA and Glutamate. So - voila. You get intrusive memories from ALL times in your life.  It's wild and wicked and wooly. But it can't hurt you. And if you can learn to visualize this as what is happening - then you can learn to be objective and realize it's normal.  And like the amygdala - it will come and go and frustrate you, but it will go away when the physiology is restored.

Hypothalamus This is the structure that is responsible for regulating body temperature. In early withdrawal, my body temperature would drop to 96 degrees in waves! Then 3 hours later, it would return to normal. I'd literally freeze in terror in bed for hours.  I am sure it is more complicated that JUST the hypothalamus, but I could picture this part of my brain retuning and restructuring, and it was less scary that way. 

The following structures in the brain are part of the "gray matter" or the "cortex "and what we consider to be the "higher brain"- the thinking and processing parts. 

Frontal Lobe This is the part of the brain behind the front of the skull. It is responsible for planning things. For making decisions. For inhibiting emotions appropriately.  It is the part of the brain you need if you want to make a sandwich and need to get out the ingredients and actually make the sandwich. I have seen people with brain injury be able to TELL you how to make a sandwich - but when they are standing there in front of all the ingredients, they cannot actually move to act to make it! They have frontal lobe damage. They can TELL someone how to make it. But they cannot themselves initiate doing it! As you can imagine, with therapy, and time to heal, this goes away. And we are a lot like this - but it goes away for us, too.  I could not organize my children't toys just 4 months ago.  Not a simple room of toys. I didn't know where to start and I literally could not mentally do it. I imagine this is partly why.  No frontal lobe GABA. And too much Glutamate.   But now, check out this post I"m typing.  Obviously that changed. 
This calms down and these things come back. 

Occipital Lobe This is the vision center. t's at the back of your skull.   In recovery, my nerves have been all wacked here. I see things as too bright - possible due to this lobe - and/or the actual visual nerves in the eyes.  But no doubt people "see things" that aren't there.  Vision is distorted. Things go blurry.  Colors are totally off.Brightness is off.  There are a hundred symptoms possible in vision alone!  But again - it's a matter of time.

Vestibular System This is the system of semi-circular canals in the inner ear that are responsible for making you feel balanced in space.  When this is "off" or damaged temporarily, you feel dizzy. Oh man, was I dizzy. Early off - I felt like I lived in a funhouse.  Over time, a combination of this vestibular system and my damaged visual system made things look like they were "leaning". To this day, one eye sees things "correctly" and the other eye sees things as SLIGHTLY leaning. And it's not that the eye itself is seeing them that way.  The healing vestibular system is working WITH the eye to "tell" the brain that that object looks like it is "moving left-wards" or "leaning". But it isn't.  In waves, this can happen bad - and then be GONE - poof - in a window. This is just the vestibular system healing. It's gotten WAY better. 

Temporal Lobe  These lobes are on the side of your brain on each side near your ear. It makes up the whole left and ride side of your brain.  This is where auditory information is processed, including hearnig itself, but also the "Meaning" of what we are hearing, as well as part of speech and language, emotion, and buncha other stuff.  In early recovery, someone was talking to me and I couldn't tell you what they said past the first sentence.  My auditory processing was ALL messed up.  I couldn't picture what a person was saying to me in real time - and by the time I caught up to them, I was lost and they were talking about something else! Also - When I was laying there in bed, I could "hear" things that weren't there in the noise of my box fan. I'd hear the fan blowing -but I also "heard" like sickening circus music. I believe this is because there is noise coming into my ear - but my brain cannot adequately "prune" what it is hearing at differnet frequecies because there is not enough GABA to inhibit it to create something meaninful.  There was all this "noise" and my brain was just firing off glutamate.  So instead of actually "processing" the noise - it was firing off ideas about what it was hearing - and they were ALL wrong.  I would be hearing what sounded like circus music - and at the same time, my poor brain was looking through my hippocampus to find all the memories I ever had of being at the circus - and then I'm reliving those memories- and at the same time, my amygdala is getting fired upon - so I'm in fear. So I'm a quivering mess of a person laying in the bed hearing and seeing things and remembering times in my childhood and scared to pieces.  Seriously? Yes - I felt crazy. But not in my MIND.  It was my BRAIN.  It's the BRAIN.  And it's normal. The structures in the brain are "obligated" to work this way.

That brings me to my next point... WHY do all of us in benzo recovery have generally the same symptoms? Well - it may make you feel calmer to realize that our brain structures are NOT broken. They are doing EXACTLY what they are supposed to do under the circumstances.  And all of our perceptions of what we are seeing, feeling, hearing- are normal because the parts of our brains that are firing off are doing so because a) They still DO work. They work just as they were intended to. c) They are actually healing as all this firing is going on.  

Why the depression and anxiety? It's so complicated, but this WHOLE system is interdependent. At that SAME time as ALL this stuff is going on, the entire body is trying to heal in every place GABA and Glutamate naturally act (uh - and that would be - EVERYWHERE).
The intestines, stomach, eye balls, skin, toenails - seriously - where do we NOT have nerves?  
Anything we didn't have as a pre-existing condition is fair game for being affected by the recovery that takes place.  
This includes the body's own ability to make serotonin that is required to feel "balanced" and "happy". And you guessed it. This is not being made very efficiently in a building that is under major construction. So - you may get a day or so of feeling good - and then - boom - that's gone until you can make enough serotonin.
Oh - and by the way - serotonin HELPS TELL THE NERVES WHEN TO RELEASE GABA AND GLUTAMATE! Ha! 
So on top of needing GABA to make serotonin, you need serotonin to regulate the release of GABA into the system!  
How much more interconnected can you get?  God - it's a wonder it knows how to heal at all!  But it does!  Amazing to me, really.

This is just some limited information to give an idea of what is going on in neurophysiology.  Obviously this is very cursory and not super detailed. But there is a bigger point here than "what parts of the brain are affected".  
The point REALLY is - IF  YOU KNOW that symptoms are tied to parts of a NORMAL brain under reconstruction, then you can begin to rest a little more easy in your mind that under the circumstances, the symptoms themselves are a GOOD sign.  
Without intrusive memories - as awful as they are - especially when mixed with fear - but without them, your memory itself would not heal.  It IS healing - and when you are having intrusives, try to think of it that way.  Tap your finger to your temple and say to yourself, "I know what this is. This is my hippocampus healing! Ha!" Because it IS.  And if it were NOT healing, you would not be having those symptoms.  ANY part of the brain or body that needs to heal is going to "experience" something in the form of symptoms - and you are going to notice that. But it is part of  process that is inevitably returning to the balance that it could not achieve while we were still putting those pills in our mouths.  (And if you're tapering, this is still happening - just likely with less trauma than with what happened to me when I cold-turkeyed.)

So - when you have symptoms - know that symptoms themselves are a way for you to know that healing is taking place.

And finally - realize that the DRUG is GONE.  This is withdrawal - yes - okay -we call it withdrawal -  but it's really "recovery".
The benzos are gone. The "evil drug" is no longer there.  The symptoms that are left are not the "enemy". That's our brains doing the EXACT right thing. What's happening to our brain at this point is not the "benzo beast"  It's OUR BRAIN recovering.
Not to degrade anyone who calls it the benzo beast  - I get that. But just so you know - you're not really fighting a beast.
You don't even need to fight it.  Just wait it out. All that reconstruction is happening on your building. 
And soon - the frame will be back standing, stronger than before. The furniture will be inside. The elevators will go all the way up to the top again.   And the people can come and go and work like a well-oiled machine.  
Don't feel you need to fight the recontruction. It's just healing. And all that is happening to us is a sign of that.

Hope this helps somebody a little - or maybe a family member.  

And if you ARE a family member, please realize that those of us in recovery are no more in control of how we feel or what we experience than people who have undergone brain trauma in a car accident. Please be patient with us, because our brains are healing and we are in the process of reconstruction - and our function is temporarily enabled, then disabled, then enabled, then disabled again.  And that is totally normal and expected.  We can no more help that than a person can "want" to wake up out of a coma. It happens when the brain is able - and not out of sheer will.  But it does happen. So please stand by us and say loving things and reassure us every day. Notice our improvements and tell us what they are.  Encourage us when we feel good.  And when we don't, just hold us and hug us and tell us it will be okay.  Anything you would say or do for a family member that had had a car accident and a brain injury - please do that for us.  And be patient... we are getting there. 



ADDENDUM

 I got a great PM from a buddy asking "What about the physical symptoms of pain?" - and think it deserves some theoretical attention.

I want to take some time to add some theories about PAIN and physical symptoms such as burning, akathisia, and tingling, prickling, and things that happen during recovery of this nature.

I will also add this as an addendum to the original post on page 1. 

First off, let it be said that I can only "theorize" as to this, - I am not a doctor.  But I DO think logical theories are helpful because they give us a story and mindful logic to cope with in the MEANTIME as we are going through this.

So these are multiple sources of information that I'm tying together - some are from nerve regeneration, and some are from what we know about "how the brain works".  And some or ALL of this is likely going on when it comes to pain and skin/muscle sensations:

First off - I think a good quote comes from a Plastic Surgery practice that has published things on "nerve regeneration after injury".  

The quote follows:

"The usual events associated with normal nerve regeneration can be painful. As the regenerating ends of the nerve, called sprouts, travel, they make contact with each other and with structural proteins. The neural impulses generated by this activity may be interpreted by your brain as pain. It should be expected that for the time period associated with nerve regeneration there may be pain sufficient to need therapy and/or pain medication. Just understanding that this is expected to occur, and is "good pain'; or pain for a good reason, is enough to help many people adjust to its presence.  This condition is not just one of pain, but is associated with over activity of the sympathetic nervous system, so that the area of pain is a different color, like pink or purple, and is usually a different temperature, like cooler, than the surrounding non-painful skin."  http://www.riversong...on_recovery.pdf

Well- this article isn't talking about "benzo - related nerve damage. It's talking about nerve damage caused by physical trauma of crushing, cutting, or compressing nerves. But what can we glean from it nonetheless?

We can assume that if the sympathetic nervous system is involved in the presence of pain related to healing nerves - AND IT IS- that it is also NORMAL for us to have pain as we are undergoing healing. 

When I was in earliest recovery, I would often get out of the shower and have pink spots all over my feet and my abdomen. At first they were bright pink for about 2 months - and then they faded out and I don't have them anymore.  I have no idea what they were - but they were NOT there 12 days prior to my rapid taper - and then they showed up.  The spots weren't symmetrical - they followed no pattern, but they were alway in the same place on my skin.  And only after getting out of the shower.  It is easy to see how the nervous system could be involved in skin redness, irritation, and weird feelings associated with recovery.

Likewise, throughout recovery, I've had and continue to have cooling, burning, prickling and occasional stabbing sensations. I've had it feel like my skin was "wet" when there was no water on it.  Again, though. This is all normal - and like the quote says above.."Just understanding that this is expected to occur, and is "good pain'; or pain for a good reason, is enough to help many people adjust to its presence."  It doesn't make the pain FEEL any better in the moment, but it does help us not to become anxious about it. It's normal.  And it's a sign of healing.

What about akathisia?
Well  - from the reading, the exact cause of akathisia is not 100% conclusive, but it seems to be related to dopaminergic and/or noradrenergic activity in the brain  (dopamine and norepinephrine or noradrenaline as it is also called). These are just neurotransmitters - and it doesn't look (to me) to be exactly conclusive WHY this happens - but akathisia can happen after the use of many psychoactive drugs- not just benzos - and likely because anything that alters brain chemistry can alter dopemine and norepinephrine. So - okay. That makes sense.  We all took "brain altering" drugs - and now some of us have akathisia.  Guess what?  It seems pretty normal!  It's not fun. But it's normal.  And it can come and go and then go away eventually.  For me, I didn't get akathisia at all until month 8. It was a surprise.  It was intense and awful. But it passed in a few weeks. Since then, I have had it off and on - but not to that degree.  And now - it's mostly just annoying.  Something as simple as a good hard cry in the bathtub can COMPLETELY remove it at times.  And other times, I just have to wait for a wave to pass. But all in all, from all this information - it's normal. And the fact that it's coming and going and I'm getting hit here and there - it's a sign that the wheels are turning up there in the noggin - and things are shifting and attempting to rebalance.  So if we can keep that quote in mind - it's normal - and while the sensation itself is very uncomfortable - if not painful - it can be regarded as a "good pain" if we are able to recognize that our feeling it means we have a brain and nerves that are regaining their abilities to function. 

Likewise, as a scab heals over a wound, the new skin formin underneath can become "itchy". Why does this occur? Why does a scab itch?

"The itch of a healing wound is caused by the growth of new cells underneath the old scab. New skin cells would be growing underneath, and as they form a new layer of skin, then the scab becomes more tightly stretched over this zone of activity. This can make it feel itchy. The itch sensation for burn survivors may be a tingling feeling caused by nerves re-growing, or from dry skin caused by the lack of natural oil production since oil glands may have been damaged or destroyed by the burn. As the nerves grow and start to receive and send messages, they may create that itchy feeling. The skin in this area will be a lot less thick than everywhere else, so these new nerve cells will be under a lot more pressure. Itching is a sign of healing." (Mayo Clinic)

As we can surmise, the umpteen bajillion sensation we have going on are not 100% conclusive in their origins....HOWEVER...
There IS a trend.

From what it seems like from all the reading... 
NERVE REGENERATION CAN CAUSE UNPLEASANT SENSATIONS. As counterintuitive as it is,  HEALING CAN FEEL LIKE HURT. 
But it's NOT further hurt or damage. It's the REVERSAL of damage.  

Um  - yeah - okay. Great - but what do I DO about it.

Pretty much the things that I have discovered that help through this healing are to "CONFUSE" the nerves as much as possible, IF possible.  
What? Confuse the nerves? 

You know how you get a cut or an insect bite and you immediately press on it to make it feel less painful? What you are doing when you press or squeeze the area is "desensitizing' the entire skin region of the cut by applying pressure to ALL the nerves in the area. That way, the ONE sensation of pain from the cut isn't the only thing your brain is feeling.  The pressure from pushing down on  ALL the nerves in the area helps to send multiple sensation to the brain to "counteract" the pain sensation.  And it works.
Similarly, other things can help "confuse" nerves:
-Heat
-Cold
-Deep Pressure
- Massage
-creams like "Icy Hot" with menthol 

All of these things have helped me cope in recovery.

Let me take it one by one:

Heat: I took and STILL take hot baths almost every day. In the peak of akathisia, I lived in the tub.   As hot as I could stand it really helped me. All the heat was "overregistering" in my brain and I was unable to feel the akathisia as much when in the tub. It was confusing the nerve signal and it was temporary relief.  I hated those days. But I got through them.  Likewise, a heating pad for pain was my friend a lot of the time.  

-Cold -  I used a cold washcloth on burning skin - and on my face and hands - and kept dipping it in ice water and applying it.  This is an easy one, but it helped. I had a wave with 3 days of "fireface" last month and all I could do was apply the washcloth, lay there and think about how "this is healing" and keep going. But the wave passed.

Deep Pressure  I use a 15 pound weighted blanket to sleep. I have for YEARS. I ordered it online. It has many pockets with little plastic balls equally distributed to create a very heavy blanket that creates "deep pressure". This kind of pressure is calming for anyone's nervous system. Occupational Therapists use it for children with autism, but people with anxiety can benefit from sleeping with one. And in recovery, I was glad to have it.  I used it often together with a heating pad.  It took the edge off just long enough.  

Massage This one CAN be helpful - but sometimes not.  I used to ask my husband just to "press down" on my head or my legs.  Just press there. Don't rub.  My skin hurt too much to rub, but the deep pressure from pressing was helpful. Other times, the actual massage was a help for sore muscles.  I was too agoraphobic to schedule a REAL massage. LOL. But just this help from my family was nice to have.

Creams You're going to laugh, but there was a day that I put Vick's VapoRub on my face because my face was so HOT!  I figured if this is safe for my baby's skin, it's probably okay to try it on my face.  It worked! Oh man - my face felt SO good all day.  I used that for a few days until the wave passed.  I have also tried "Icy Hot" on my back when it was sore.  Things like this work on the same principal to "confuse the nerves".  If your nerves are too busy feeling the heat/cool of menthol, they cannot simultaneously feel "pain". So for a short time, the pain is not "felt" even though the "soreness" is technically still there.

All of these are ways I have coped.  I'm sure there are others you guys have used!! 

The broad idea here is that 
1) Healing is happening.
2) The sensations that feel like injury are NOT injury. They are the CORRECTION of nerve injury.  They just "fire off" as they heal.
3) We can use some things to cope.
4) It's going away in time. 

I know this is not a "fix" to the feelings.  There is nothing anyone could say to me while I was IN pain that made the PAIN better.  All I could do was cope and cry and try to get through it.  But knowing it's normal and that I'm not getting worse; I'm getting better - is always something I benefit from knowing. 

 

The last article is kinda the same info as this but written from a more technical standpoint. Since I am tech and medical backgrounded, it made perfect sense and it got me over the hump. I'll find it one of these days.....

 

[Ariel]

Bumping another post from cw5600 in which they reference a topic that has helped them through recovery.

Original comment here

 

On 4/13/2016 at 5:03 PM, cymbaltawithdrawal5600 said:

Ok, I cannot really find the article I am looking for but this is close (copied from here):

 

When you reduce or quit an antidepressant (or any psychiatric drug), you may experience withdrawal symptoms.

Withdrawal symptoms are due to an absence of a medication at a level to which your body has become accustomed. They are an adverse effect of psychiatric drug use. When the level of the drug is reduced, your body notices it and tries to compensate, creating withdrawal symptoms. Withdrawing faster will increase withdrawal symptoms.

Quitting "cold-turkey" increases the risk of intense and prolonged withdrawal symptoms. Many people find that alternating dosages triggers withdrawal symptoms. It is not a gradual enough transition for some nervous systems.

Why are withdrawal symptoms so varied?
Because psychiatric drugs affect your nervous system -- the "operating system" of your body -- withdrawal symptoms can show up almost anywhere. They can be problems in

- Perception (vision, smell, hearing, etc.)
- Cognition (confusion, inability to concentrate, disorientation, depersonalization, etc.)
- Unusual and powerful emotions (melancholia, weeping, fear, anxiety, "neuro-emotion", etc.)
- Physical pain (headache, migraine, tingling, muscle aches, skin burning, etc.)
- Digestive issues (diarrhea, gastroparesis, etc.)
- Sleep issues (most commonly insomnia and poor sleep)
- "Brain zaps" (a sensation of tiny, sharp electrical surges in the brain)
- Hypersensitivity to medications, supplements, or foods

and others (more information about symptoms).

How do I know it's withdrawal and not relapse?
Typically, in withdrawal symptoms such as melancholia, anxiety, and disorientation come in intense waves, which differentiates them from relapse of a psychological condition.

In withdrawal, symptoms are much more intense than the original psychological condition. People suffering from withdrawal often say things like

- "This doesn't feel like my depression."
- "I've never had symptoms like this before."
- "I feel very weird and not like myself."

It's up to the individual to decide whether your body and brain are behaving "normally" as they did before you tried medication, or if you are feeling differently.

Why do you suggest tapering so slowly?
Withdrawal symptoms can be distressing, debilitating, and even disabling. While medicine insists that withdrawal symptoms last only a few weeks, some people experience them for much, much longer -- months and even years.

You cannot know in advance if you will suffer severe withdrawal from psychiatric medications. Very gradual reduction is the only way to limit the risk and severity of withdrawal symptoms. To be safe, we advocate a gradual taper with an initial reduction of 10% of dosage, for 3-4 weeks.

The theory behind tapering is that it allows your body and nervous system to gradually adapt to the absence of the medication. (More information about tapering here.)

Stages of withdrawal syndrome
ACUTE WITHDRAWAL
- Symptoms may appear when you reduce the dosage of a medication. If they are severe and do not fade in a few days, they are a sign your reduction in medication was too sudden. You might increase dosage slightly and reduce by a smaller amount next time.

- Symptoms may appear after you stop a medication. Because your body may not at first recognize the decrease of the drug, you may not feel withdrawal symptoms for a few weeks or even months. Reinstating the medication (at a reduced dosage) fairly soon after quitting can reduce or eliminate withdrawal symptoms. You can then taper more slowly from that level of medication.

The window when reinstatement may work for reducing withdrawal symptoms varies from individual to individual, but does not seem to be longer than a few months. After that, reinstatement either does not help or makes symptoms worse.

POST-ACUTE WITHDRAWAL
- Symptoms may last for weeks, months, or years after you stop. Probably for the majority of people, withdrawal symptoms resolve in a few weeks or months. Others can suffer for years from prolonged withdrawal syndrome.

In prolonged withdrawal syndrome, symptoms come in waves with windows of feeling more normal. Gradually, windows increase in frequency and length. Recovery varies from individual to individual and can take months or years.

Generally, prolonged withdrawal syndrome is not recognized by medicine. You will find very few doctors to diagnose it and still fewer to treat it.

 

End of quote.

 

It is entirely possible that the article doesn't exist but I remember it was written by Altostrata and posted elsewhere on the web. It's probably here but I am tired of searching for it. And it's also possible that all of the reading I did on the topic informed my understanding of what was going on. I am speaking primarily to the myriad odd, frightening and uncomfortable symptoms I experienced (and still do to this day but mildly) and once I got the message that what was happening was my body's clumsy (but wise) attempts to 'right' my system in the absence of those drugs, I was able to at least settle down and bear them as best I could.

 

If one can understand that it is a bit like trying to rebuild the engine in your car WHILE you are driving it (and need to drive it) then you can see how rough a ride it is and where all these weird symptoms are coming from. I feel it is too bad that what used to be an excellent resource available nowhere else on the web (the Symptoms and Self Care forum) has become a dumping ground (a place to rant in Alto's own words) for comments about the same symptoms over and over again as each member encounters them, thinking they are unique. They aren't. Since site search does not work very well, no one knows the gems of wisdom there and attempts to keep it organized lead to mod burnout. As the body adjusts one thing another thing is thrown out of whack and so on down the line. But its all according to some secret hidden plan and in the end we ALL emerge with a new functionality, some more functional than others to be sure and some taking longer than others too. There's a stark difference between withdrawal syndrome symptoms and true illness but people are so spooked they panic instead of waiting it out. We aren't medical docs here, we just people and what do we know about what's really going on with you? If that forum was a more organized resource one could look up their symptom and go "hey, I think I might have the same thing as so and so and they survived, so it's cool".

 

It's a process and while it is occurring the results of your lifestyle choices are also being felt and the plain and simple fact of aging too. Once you realize this is all going on you can stop fiddling with this and that supplement (and for goodness sake GET OVER the notion that there is a DRUG that will fix you for thataway lies peril) and just support your delicate system as best you can.

 

If anyone has read my long thread you may remember that there came a day when I knew I was going to recover. It came as a thought in my mind, not really one of 'my' thoughts and it happened in the shower. For I realized that for the first time in a couple of years that I actually felt good in there, the water felt nice and there was no sense of doom being in there. That was the turning point. But to get there, my body had been busy REMODELING itself and it was the first inkling that things had reached a point where they were now becoming VISIBLE.

 

Believe me, this was not the end. There were some very rough times ahead, I spoke about the depths of my depression and the constant suicidal feelings. And it may still not be the end but I'm over the hump I think. I am not quite ready to write a recovery story but this is the prelude to it, such as it is.

 

[Ariel]

On 4/13/2016 at 5:03 PM, cymbaltawithdrawal5600 said:

 

It's a process and while it is occurring the results of your lifestyle choices are also being felt and the plain and simple fact of aging too. Once you realize this is all going on you can stop fiddling with this and that supplement (and for goodness sake GET OVER the notion that there is a DRUG that will fix you for thataway lies peril) and just support your delicate system as best you can.

 

If anyone has read my long thread you may remember that there came a day when I knew I was going to recover. It came as a thought in my mind, not really one of 'my' thoughts and it happened in the shower. For I realized that for the first time in a couple of years that I actually felt good in there, the water felt nice and there was no sense of doom being in there. That was the turning point. But to get there, my body had been busy REMODELING itself and it was the first inkling that things had reached a point where they were now becoming VISIBLE.

 

Believe me, this was not the end. There were some very rough times ahead, I spoke about the depths of my depression and the constant suicidal feelings. And it may still not be the end but I'm over the hump I think. I am not quite ready to write a recovery story but this is the prelude to it, such as it is.

[Ariel]

On 4/13/2016 at 8:51 PM, cymbaltawithdrawal5600 said:

 

Another thing that is key to surviving this process, whether you are coming off drugs on purpose and tapering or whether you found yourself out in the street without a paddle (as I did, I did not mean to come off them) is that you have to be in charge of your psychological states and take whatever steps you need to to manage your feelings - be they low down and 'depressed' or high in the sky manic and everything in between. Like they say about the weather in some parts of the country, if you don't like it just wait a moment, something else is coming along soon. The same is true of your emotions. It is true that most of them will be very unsettling, even horrifying, but if you hang in there they will begin to 'normalize'. Your feelings are your responsibility. Medicine got you in this predicament and they know of no way to get you out. You have to go it alone, on your own.

 

 

[Ariel]

On 4/25/2016 at 3:16 PM, cymbaltawithdrawal5600 said:

 

The reason you want to follow a careful slow taper is so you do not trigger withdrawal syndrome and it manifests itself in many ways leading up to full blown misery but many people are quick to attribute the symptoms to something else and by the time they get here they are in deep trouble. And it can be delayed too: mine did not start (the awful protracted part) until I had been drug free FOR A WHOLE YEAR. But had I been more aware I could have seen the signs. (I made it worse by taking a drug called atarax because the doc told me to. You won't likely put 2 and 2 together and realize wd is happening because of this delay). I will put the reason you don't want this to happen in all caps even though many people will read it and immediately say "well, not me, I can get through this and she does not know what she is talking about". Ok fine, do it your way but I will tell you right off and not mince words: wd syndrome can get SO bad you will want to kill yourself because you cannot escape it and many people have done just that so that should be enough of a warning which many of you will not heed. Already there are at least 6 people who had been posting here who this has happened to and countless stories in the media about different celebrities.

 

THERE IS NO DRUG OR SUPPLEMENT OR CURE FOR WITHDRAWAL SYNDROME. NONE. AT ALL. AND THERE NEVER WILL BE.

 

No matter how much research you do and how many questions you ask in the symptoms forum, those of us who know will tell you that anything you take is likely to have a paradoxical reaction and you are better off not doing it.

 

Your nervous system has to right itself and it cannot do so if you keep adding stuff that it has to adjust to while it is in a major uproar and it just can't do it. And it takes a LONG time for it to settle down. We are talking months, even years and you just extend the time and symptoms by adding more drugs and supplements. The only ones that seem to do no harm are magnesium and fish oil, but not everyone can even tolerate these.

 

We've got all the information and scientific rationale for tapering off these drug so slowly that your body most of the time does not have a chance to overreact but many of you cannot find this information or cannot process it. (We have several successful cases of this very thing being done. You don't need to have more than this to believe it can be done). The mods keep telling you and you don't get it so it is not because we don't try. But all of this is up to you, the medical establishment cannot help and until you get this, this unwavering trust in doctors and psychiatric medicine, you won't succeed in getting off the drugs safely.

 

Then comes the fun part: you need to be able to manage your emotions yourself for you will finally come to realize there is not a pill in the world that can fix that part of you. If you cannot do this then no matter what the potential side effects of long term use of psych meds are, you better stay on them because that's all you've got. WE CANNOT HELP YOU, SO DON'T EXPECT US TO. Stay on the drugs and try to treat yourself well. This journey is not for everyone.

 

This is a self help board so start reading. Don't think my story applies to you? Then read someone elses, the infinite variation of the human experience is all here in this tiny microcosm, all here for you to learn from.

 

 

[Ariel]

Oh! This is awesome -- CG (from cw5600's quoted post) is fully recovered!

And... SA already has a thread about this! What a treasure trove <3

 

 

[Guest]

Did she have a success story ? 

• cymbaltawithdrawal5600