☼ Petunia: recovering from 13 years of antidepressant use

[alex]

I also have the tendency to overdo it....

Regarding your family and friends "obligations", remember that you have to be selfish in a positive way; the most important person now is YOU.

 

Hugs, A

 

PS I don't blame your cousin...hahaha!!

[Barbarannamated]

Petu,

 

I'm sorry I haven't commented earlier, but I've been following your thread and relate well to your thoughts and feelings.

 

This comment on Nikki's thread especially hit home:

 

"But sometimes I envy people who are still tapering because you have a certain control over symptoms, there is the ability to hold and updose and reduce slower.  I can't do anything but wait and take care of myself the best I can."

 

The waiting in limbo is awful for me....a lack of control that is present while tapering (in my assumption, anyway).

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings so honestly. I hope you see improvement soon.

[Petunia]

Hi Barb,

No need to apologize for not commenting earlier, and I'm glad you did now.

 

Yes, this lack of control is terrifying at times.  Just this morning I was trying to work out what's so different now, because I'm sure I've felt a lack of control in my life before.

 

I came to the conclusion that its a combination of getting to a point where there really is no control, now that I can't take anything to relieve the symptoms, without it turning on me, and the inability to communicate what's this is really like to anyone and get a sense that they really get it, really know just how bad this is.... so there is an incredible sense of isolation in my real life.... which adds to the panic, because I think naturally, we are social creatures and need a social context for our experiences in order for them to make sense.

 

I hope you start to feel better soon too.

[Petunia]

This wave doesn't seem to be letting up, in fact it feels like it gets worse every day.  Sorry I haven't been contributing much these last few days, I've been struggling just to keep myself sane and functioning.

 

I get confused between avoidance and self-care, so this morning I ignored my inner instinct at self care and forced myself to go out to the grocery store, rather than wait until I felt better later.  My morning cortisol was way up, on the verge of panic actually.  But I wanted to see if going ahead and doing my chores would 'help'.

 

It didn't, instead I just suffered more and couldn't wait to get back home. 

 

Is it just me, or a feature of DR, or does the fluorescent lighting in grocery stores make things look weird?

[Sparrow]

I have a lot of difficulty with lighting in general, but the harsh buzzy glaring of fluorescents is by far the worst.

 

So sorry you're having a bad time time, Petu. Hang tight.

 

Sparrow

[Barbarannamated]

Fluorescent lighting has always bothered me and is MUCH worse now. It's not your imagination.

[alex]

 

Is it just me, or a feature of DR, or does the fluorescent lighting in grocery stores make things look weird?

 

Yes Petu, it happend to me too;it has gotten better.

I am in a bad wave also;not as bad as it used to be in the sense that I don't get the awful edgy feeling.

You are a brave woman, doing your things despite the big distress of w/d.

That is the way to do it;being gentle to yourself, but not withdrawing from the world.

 

You are not alone P.

 

Hugs,A.

[Petunia]

Yesterday was a really bad day.  One of those minute at a time days.  I seriously thought about taking some Xanax, just to get some relief because I wasn't sure I could make it through each minute as they arrived.

 

So what was the 'symptom' which was so hard to tolerate?  I don't know, just a complete body/mind feeling of being so wound up and tense and stretched to breaking point with not a second of relief.  I tried stretching, camomile tea, warm milk, going for a walk, but it got worse.

 

I was desperate.  Searching like crazy through my favorite web sites, FB pages and youtube channels for something, anything to distract me or give me some kind of hopeful new idea.

 

Out of pure desperation, I found myself doing a 20 minute guided meditation where I was imagining a pair of pyramids traveling down my body, restructuring my DNA.  I want to believe that kind of stuff, but I just cant, but I was desperate for the distraction, I figured that it would keep me sane and alive for at least another 20 minutes.

 

Half way through, my daughter very loudly came home with her boyfriend.  This was the worst possible moment, I was on the verge of exploding from the most intense horrible sensations I've ever had and now this.....

 

I tried to keep going anyway, but a few seconds later there was a knock at my door and it opened, "Mum, can you pick me up from work at 3:15"

 

At that moment, something inside me just gave up.  Something died, hope?  I"m not sure what it was.  But I calmly said to my daughter "I was meditating"  "Sorry, she replied, sheepishly"

 

I told her I would take her, not knowing how I was going to be able to, at that moment it was taking all my strength and will power to just keep existing.

 

A few stressful things have happened over the last several days, which has added to the wave, but not caused it.

 

I usually start to feel better about mid afternoon, but lately, the anxiety, akathisia or whatever it is has been lasting all day and yesterday wasn't any different.  I picked my daughter up from work and then later in the evening, dropped her off at a 21st birthday.  She now has her full license, she got it on Friday, but no car yet.  I'm terrified of her driving around, by herself, in traffic, at night, why now?

 

I don't know how I got through yesterday without taking something to stop the 'pain'.  But its been 5 months since I've taken anything stronger than an aspirin.

 

I have to deal with the back fence issue.  Its now completely gone.  My neighbor cleared away the rest of it, along with cutting down my favorite tree, it had to go because it was on the fence line anyway.  I now have zero privacy outside anywhere.  I feel so vulnerable and exposed.  Just want a fence back, but I'm finding it very difficult to deal with people, especially that particular neighbor.  The whole situation is actually more complicated, with other people involved, but I'm not going into details.  I'm just finding it very difficult to deal with, when all I can seem to handle is staying alive, doing the very basics of living and running straight back to the safely of my room for some stress relief.

[bubble]

Dear Petu,

 

You are a very brave woman! You write beautifully and clearly about your experiences and I find it very helpful.

 

I think that reading posts on this sites has helped you make sense of what you are going through, as it has to a lot of us.

 

What I wish for you is to find a routine for yourself that you can depend on for coping. For me that is walking. I have experienced that no matter how bad I was, walking would help me. I understand you perfectly well when you describe making plans but not being able to follow them through. 

 

I just wanted to make one note about walking in difficult times. I don't feel like moving at all. But knowing that it will help, I push myself. I push myself some more and more. And then after a while, it happens, maybe after 15 or 30 minutes, but my head clears, I get some relief and some perspective.

 

I think it's also endorphin which kicks in if I walk up the hill or fast and make my heart beat faster. It's very hard to run or go to the gym when you feel like you can barely move but walking slowly up a steep hill has a similar effect.

 

Be gentle with yourself. Feeling guilty over your mom 'helping' you instead of the other way round is your recurrent topic... You have the right to be helped by her and everyone. You are a victim of dysfunctionaility in your family and are doing heroic acts dealing with it. Give yourself some credit for that. Try reading Louise Hay. It might seem a bit naive but when I was desperate, the simple good vibe of her books was very comforting.

 

I wish I could do more to help. 

 

Lots of positive energy from this side of the world.

 

bubble

[Petunia]

Thank you Bubble, for your support and suggestions, I'm glad my writing helps, that's something which keeps me going, is knowing that I can still do something which helps other people.

 

 

What I wish for you is to find a routine for yourself that you can depend on for coping. For me that is walking. I have experienced that no matter how bad I was, walking would help me.

 

I'm also happy that you have found something which helps you cope, I know that light exercise does work for a lot of people.  Before withdrawal, it actually used to work for me, to pull me out of a bad mood or low energy kind of day.  I used to have this routine for going to the gym.  When I didn't feel like going, I told myself that all I had to do was go there and stand on a treadmill, if after that, I still didn't feel like exercising, then I could get straight off and go home.  Only once did I get straight off, every other time I started the thing up, got my heart rate up and after a while started to feel better, but that was then.

 

I used to have the same experience walking around my local park too, on most days, it would give me a mood boost and more energy.

 

But since November, 2011, when this w/d hit me, not once has walking or any kind of exercise made me feel better.  Its either made my symptoms worse or its stayed exactly the same.  In fact I've noticed a pattern, the more intense the exercise, the worse I end up feeling.  A gentle walk usually has me feeling exactly the same, but generally I get a sense of relief when I get home, that its over.

 

There is something which always 'helps' though, but its very hard to do.

 

Its acceptance.  Its difficult to achieve because it feels so counter-intuitive to accept something which feels so bad.  Every fiber of my body and mind is screaming NO, and yet, when something 'else' takes over and says 'ok, I give up', and then there is just breathing, one breath at a time, then some relief comes, not from the symptoms, but from the struggle and for me, it seems that struggling with the reality of this is half my problem.

 

I do have some Louise Hay around here somewhere, I bought one of her books and a DVD a few years ago, I will have to look for them.  I remember at the time, finding the DVD very inspirational, I think it was a compilation with several other women.

 

Thank you Bubble, I hope you are feeling better and that your business trip went well.

 

........oh!  I almost forgot, my back fence problem seems to be sorting itself out, or, someone is sorting it out, maybe me, I'm not sure.  But I actually managed to make a decision by myself, without consulting one of the other people who would probably like to be consulted, but in the end would make things much more difficult and unpleasant if I did.

 

So I decided, by myself, made a couple of phone calls to my neighbor and thankfully, its now going ahead, very smoothly, not even a problem with the color choice and he's decided to get it done properly, by a professional, rather than try and save money and do it himself, which is a huge relief for me.

 

I've been watching some Mooji satsang videos, and giggling at his jokes, its not very often I laugh these days, it felt good.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Hi Petu,

 

I read your previous post earlier this morning and some things jumped out at me but lately I have been so afraid of commenting on people's threads that I am paralyzed into inactivity. If someone hadn't gently commented on my thread the last day I would have possibly been spinning my wheels wondering what the heck was going on. So I am going to offer a couple of thoughts for you to do with as you wish.

 

I kept staring at your sig and noticed all of the 'activating' drugs you had taken in the past and noticed you have (or had) access to xanax. You wrote:

 

 

Yesterday was a really bad day.  One of those minute at a time days.  I seriously thought about taking some Xanax, just to get some relief because I wasn't sure I could make it through each minute as they arrived.

 

So what was the 'symptom' which was so hard to tolerate?  I don't know, just a complete body/mind feeling of being so wound up and tense and stretched to breaking point with not a second of relief.  I tried stretching, camomile tea, warm milk, going for a walk, but it got worse.

 

As a way of gently letting your CNS calm down after the history of all those stimulants, maybe a little xanax occasionally would be advised? Even a crumb? Especially when it gets so intense that the usual coping stuff has no effect. Some withdrawal symptoms can get you so wound up and create negative feedback loops and (in my case especially) bring me to the point where I am in great danger of sliding into panic. Panic is not good, that can lead to me having to take drastic measures (like getting back on meds). I am so lucky my pdoc gave me a script for vistaril. One pill and a bit of waiting and my anxiety quiets down. I have deliberately not researched the exact mechanisms of this drug because I do not want to peek behind the curtains and see something that might reduce it's effectiveness. It can be a placebo effect for all I care. All I know is that it is not sedating. I still have a bit of K left but I'd have to be in danger of becoming psychotic before I'd take it. Last time I did I felt hangovery for at least a day.

 

The other thing is the type of meditation you were doing. I red flagged on it and the only reason I can give is something that the meditation teacher told me. She told me it was not a good idea to listen to a lot of dharma/sangha talks or videos because the effect could be that I start to 'conceptualize' my experiences as they occur and miss the actual 'experience' of my own. I was so mad at her for telling me this, I was actually feeling great comfort reading and listening to talks about enlightenment and awakening. But I gradually saw she was right. This week I wanted desperately to go back to reading and imagining how my life might be after my 'DNA got restructured' and I could experience 'no thought'. Nope, that kind of thinking is crazy-making and I see now that she is right.

 

I got distracted earlier by another thread that lead to a website belonging to Bliss John, a name I remember hearing many years ago, probably in my new age years in calif. I started reading the recovery stories there and am reminded that my recovery is not over yet no matter how 'well' I may feel. I also had a 'louise hay' period back then too and actually went to one of her meetings in SD (back in the 80's). It was helpful when I first considered the concepts but over time I found they didn't work like I wanted them to and I drifted away. More 'conceptualization' at work, I imagine. The world of 'thought' and mastering it seems like it should be simple but it is not (at least for me). It has to be combined with real experience, which comes along as time and life goes on.

 

So I am going to do my meditation class for the 8 weeks at least and then see where I am (I have abandoned aspirations of 'enlightenment' for the moment) and remind myself that a lot of what is happening to me may very well be not just 'spiritual' but as a natural consequence of the 'recovery process' and as such is subject to change.

 

(I wondered about the neighbor and the fence, you had mentioned it in an earlier post and glad to see it is starting to come around. Maybe you'll get your dog?)

[bubble]

When walking doesn't help, I know I'm in serious trouble and dread that the most... So I very much liked your description of accepting. I also noticed I achieve most when I accept. Then i don't waste my energy on fighting the thing but getting on despite it. I think it might be the spiritual practice of Buddhism? not sure...

 

the fense and the giggle sound sooo good! These were 2 big windows

 

I'm at the coast, managed to do some work with my boss and also had a window which indicated I might be on the mend...every day in a little way, i feel a little better (I know it goes a bit different

[Petunia]

As a way of gently letting your CNS calm down after the history of all those stimulants, maybe a little xanax occasionally would be advised? Even a crumb? Especially when it gets so intense that the usual coping stuff has no effect. Some withdrawal symptoms can get you so wound up and create negative feedback loops and (in my case especially) bring me to the point where I am in great danger of sliding into panic. Panic is not good, that can lead to me having to take drastic measures (like getting back on meds). I am so lucky my pdoc gave me a script for vistaril. One pill and a bit of waiting and my anxiety quiets down.

 

 

Thanks CW, I agree with you, and that's why I came close to taking some.  But from experience, I know in the long run, I will end up regretting it.  Since going into withdrawal, I get terrible rebound anxiety.  It used to be ok to take it occasionally, to get me through temporary stressful situations.  But now the way my body is acting is different.  I'm actually scared to take it because of what I would start to feel about 6 hours later, but I got into such a panic state on Saturday, I almost forgot that my body is different now.  I think that the only way I could take a benzo now, for stress relief, would be on a regular basis so that the rebound effect couldn't kick in.  Then that would mean I would be addicted to another medication which I would have to withdraw from.

 

I can't drink alcohol now for the same reason, I hope I get back to normal soon.

 

The other thing is the type of meditation you were doing. I red flagged on it and the only reason I can give is something that the meditation teacher told me. She told me it was not a good idea to listen to a lot of dharma/sangha talks or videos because the effect could be that I start to 'conceptualize' my experiences as they occur and miss the actual 'experience' of my own. I was so mad at her for telling me this, I was actually feeling great comfort reading and listening to talks about enlightenment and awakening. But I gradually saw she was right. This week I wanted desperately to go back to reading and imagining how my life might be after my 'DNA got restructured' and I could experience 'no thought'. Nope, that kind of thinking is crazy-making and I see now that she is right.

 

 

  I guess part of growing up is giving up the fairy tales,  its hard to know what to believe these days.  I relate to a lot of the ascension material and its a more positive and meaningful perspective than 'only' medication withdrawal.  I agree about getting carried away with thoughts about a better future, full of bliss and endless happiness, but......

 

for me, being able to see what I'm going through as some kind of evolutionary, transformation process, sometimes helps to keep my mood from sinking too deep into helpless victim mode.  But not for one moment did I really believe that those pyramids in my mind were actually restructuring anything, I was hoping, but not believing.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with listening to talks, as long as you are aware of the tendency to conceptualize rather than just be awareness.  A lot of it depends on who you are listening to also.  Like you, I get comfort from listening to talks, not all of them, I actually have a hard time finding ones I resonate with, my BS meter goes off a lot.  

 

But I'm not trying to get enlightened.  Years ago, when I was in my twenties, that was what I was seeking, not having a clue what it really meant.  Seeking enlightenment and fighting with my ego literally drove me crazy.  When what I was looking for appeared, I couldn't handle it, especially when it wouldn't stop.

 

There's so much more support available now, especially with the internet.

 

I understand your meditation teacher's reasoning, but isn't the purpose of meditation and self insight and all these practices, to teach us how to let go of concepts created by our mind so we can then be the pure awareness that we are?  Listening to talks would give you something to practice on.  I don't know, just thinking out loud, you have to decide what's best for you.  Personally, I need all the help I can get at the moment, just to get through this..... whatever it is.

 

I spent a few lovely hours last night listening to Mooji and a Hungarian translator, tying to explain various unexplainable concepts via skype to a group of people.  I found it comforting because I knew what he was trying to convey, I felt a connection and for a while, something made sense in a world which most of the time these days, for me, doesn't make a lot of sense.  Maybe its like being part of a virtual sangha where I can't be part of one in reality. 

 

I had a very vivid and emotionally intense dream last night.  I met someone, a beautiful, light shining being with white hair, and we hugged, and when we did, I suddenly realized that I had just been reunited with someone or something very significant, like my higher self or some kind of eternal soul aspect.  In the dream I kind of imploded and started sobbing from the core of my being.  It was like nothing I've ever felt before.

 

I woke up briefly, sort of made a mental note of the dream, then went back to sleep.

[Petunia]

I also noticed I achieve most when I accept. Then i don't waste my energy on fighting the thing but getting on despite it. I think it might be the spiritual practice of Buddhism? not sure...

 

 

I think acceptance is a concept encouraged by a lot of religions, including Buddhism.  Its part of the Serenity Prayer too:

 

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

The courage to change the things I can,

And wisdom to know the difference.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

 

Thanks CW, I agree with you, and that's why I came close to taking some.  But from experience, I know in the long run, I will end up regretting it.  Since going into withdrawal, I get terrible rebound anxiety.

 

Thanks for not making me feel bad about my suggestion, I had not remembered your history because I read your whole thread many months ago. I mentioned the drug I use in case you might find it helpful. And also the notion of 'crumbs' of xanax. But only you know your situation intimately. Perhaps a xanax taper far down the road might be preferable to intense periods of symptoms in this immediate period off meds. But not my call, I bow to your wisdom and wish you relief from your symptoms.

 

 

for me, being able to see what I'm going through as some kind of evolutionary, transformation process, sometimes helps to keep my mood from sinking too deep into helpless victim mode.

 

and the same way I was looking to 'enlightenment' and a state of 'no thought' as a salvation for my misery in the present.

 

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with listening to talks, as long as you are aware of the tendency to conceptualize rather than just be awareness.

 

I didn't think so either but last night's experience in the class showed me otherwise. When my 'thinking' mind latches onto a concept it is just about 'game over' for me because I miss what happens in the 'direct experience'. Like I've already thought it through and see how it works. The experience is totally different. I feel like I have already contaminated my 'thought' regarding these concepts enough and am trying to be content to let the experience unfold how it will.

 

 

But I'm not trying to get enlightened.  Years ago, when I was in my twenties, that was what I was seeking, not having a clue what it really meant.  Seeking enlightenment and fighting with my ego literally drove me crazy.  When what I was looking for appeared, I couldn't handle it, especially when it wouldn't stop.

 

I am afraid the notion of 'enlightenment' is still in the back of my mind and how could it not be after all I have read? I am not sure if your experience is the one you alluded to some time ago, the 'geopolitical awakening'. I searched for the term and could not understand what it meant, there was little specific info on it.

 

 

I understand your meditation teacher's reasoning, but isn't the purpose of meditation and self insight and all these practices, to teach us how to let go of concepts created by our mind so we can then be the pure awareness that we are?  Listening to talks would give you something to practice on.

 

Yes and yes and maybe. (and maybe not...)

 

There is a term called 'spiritual bypassing' which I cannot define but I have a grasp of the concept. I gather that the 'experience' of awareness is eminently inarticulable using words. Using words, the mind gets involved. It is like it 'tries on' the concept and then you think you are actually having (or had) the experience. And my mind can contaminate future experience if I let it, but it can assist me 'after the fact' when an awareness happens and I 'think' about it later.

 

And what do I know, anyway. Your BS meter is probably pegging about now.... this is only stuff I have figured out for me.

 

Anyway, what "I practice on" is my own experience. I wrote a bit about it in my thread today. teacher actually nudged me into making the connection between meditating on the 'cold' to meditating on my feelings of 'anxiety'. Feelings, not thoughts. And I hear her little remarks about one day we will see that we create our world with our thoughts. I hear them, I don't know if the others in the class hear what I hear. I heard them in some of the dharma talks too. I can feel my mind start slipping over the edge when it hears that. Better for me to go slow and wait for the experience to come gradually.

 

What a beautiful dream! I hope you were able to get some relief with your reunion!

[Petunia]

 

 

But I'm not trying to get enlightened.  Years ago, when I was in my twenties, that was what I was seeking, not having a clue what it really meant.  Seeking enlightenment and fighting with my ego literally drove me crazy.  When what I was looking for appeared, I couldn't handle it, especially when it wouldn't stop.

 

I am afraid the notion of 'enlightenment' is still in the back of my mind and how could it not be after all I have read? I am not sure if your experience is the one you alluded to some time ago, the 'geopolitical awakening'. I searched for the term and could not understand what it meant, there was little specific info on it.

 

 

 

I've had several 'awakening' experiences through my life.  This most recent one has increased my understanding of how global power structures work, opened my eyes and completely turned my world view upside down.  Apparently, this kind of awakening is sweeping the world, but I don't see it around me in my daily life... not really.

 

For me, this one started about 3 years ago.  I was researching something on the internet and stumbled onto something called 'Spiral Dynamics'  and 'Integral Theory'.  I became fascinated with the work of Ken Wilber. Bought several books and joined his online community.  Eventually I found myself watching things like David Icke and Project Camelot videos.

 

So, a geopolitical awakening is more of a cognitive process, a change in understanding of the way the social, political and economic world around us works.

 

What happened in my 20's was the result of an intense meditation session.  I had been doing Osho's dynamic meditation and suddenly there was a surge of energy go up through my body.  I wasn't expecting something like that to happen, but in that instant, I no longer existed.  There was no separation between me and everything around me.  I'm not sure, but I might have been experiencing what's called 'unity consciousness', at the time I didn't have a clue what was going on.

 

At first, it felt blissful, amazing, nothing you can put in words really.  I also had so much energy.  But it became too much, it felt very unfamiliar and I was finding it hard to function.  My senses started to become sharper and I became scared.  It didn't turn out well, but I"m not going to go into details here.  Lets just say that what should have been a positive, transformative spiritual experience, ended up getting medicalized and cut short.  That's why, I think its very important if you are on a spiritual path, to have some kind of support from a spiritual community which understands these things. 

 

I still have a lot of anger about what happened to me.  At the time I knew that whatever had happened was a good and sacred kind of thing, even if I wasn't understanding it clearly.  But the way I was treated, after I went to a doctor for help, caused a lot of trauma, which lasted for years, and it wasn't something I was able to talk about, not until finding information on the internet several years ago and learning that this kind of thing has happened to lots of people.

 

If videos like this were available back then, perhaps things would have been different.

 

I wasn't planning on writing about this, but it seems to have happened anyway.

 

Adya talks about different kinds of awakenings.  But I no longer want any of them and wish I'd never started on this truth seeking path in the first place.  But I think I was born this way and started having unusual 'experiences' from a young age.

 

But back to the main purpose of this thread...

 

This morning I realized that the hot/cold flashes and sweating has once again subsided significantly.  I'm still getting a lot of fear/dread type feelings though and sensations of energy and vibrations going through me for most of the day.

 

I went out yesterday afternoon in a very DP/DR state, but I got all my chores accomplished perfectly.  I was trying to wait until I started to feel better, but it didn't seem to be happening, so I went out anyway.  Its so unpleasant to be walking around in the world, doing things I used to do, but there being no sense of satisfaction, or pleasure or meaning in any of it, just a constant hum of anxious energy running through my body.

 

I was noticing how so many of the brand name products on shelves are starting to disappear and be replaced by generic store versions in packaging which looks almost identical to the previous brand labels.  Evidence of the power of global corporations I suppose, its frightening, I wish I didn't know what I know.

 

Its hard to tell the difference between what's still withdrawal and what actually is the truth.

[Altostrata]

It sounds like you're a very sensitive person, Petu. Please treat yourself gently. Good to hear some symptoms have gotten a bit better.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Oh, gosh Petu, I hardly know how to respond after your description of what happened to you. I just wanted to let you know I read your post and I'll say more after I've watched the video. I do hope your days have gotten a little better. All I know is, I would probably not mess with any 'energetic' meditations. I dabbled in a specific breathing technique years ago and I look back now and see that I was very lucky that nothing untoward happened as a result. I still have a blank spot in my memory as to what exactly happened right before I went on meds. I had been convinced I was having some sort of 'spiritual' experience tho not like you described.

 

Please take care of yourself!

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I read quite a bit on the site from the video link you posted and it was most informative. What a helpful person that man is.

 

I have not seen any postings from you lately and I hope you are doing well. I think about you a lot. What weird paths our lives take......

[Petunia]

I have not seen any postings from you lately and I hope you are doing well. I think about you a lot. What weird paths our lives take......

 

Thanks CW,  I know I haven't been posting as much lately, my symptoms seem to have changed, I'm not as physically anxious, but now, I'm feeling very low, depressed, unmotivated and helpless.  When I'm feeling anxious and shaky, helping out here on the forum works well for me because it seems to distract me from what I'm feeling.

 

But while I'm like this, when I read too much about other people suffering, it seems to intensify my own feelings of helplessness and I get overwhelmed, then I can't even think properly.  If I'm not careful, I go into a downward spiral.

 

Two nights ago, I hardly got any sleep at all, which is unusual for me.  But it didn't seem to be a bad thing, it was weird actually.  During the day I had gone shopping for a lawnmower.  Then I ended up at my parents house and spent an hour trying to figure out how to connect the attachments to their vacuum cleaner.  In the end, I gave up.

 

That night, instead of going sleep, I found myself thinking about which lawnmower to buy, then I was thinking about all my experiences with gardens through my life, then for the first time in almost 2 years, I felt a small amount of positivity and enthusiasm about fixing up the garden here.  I was designing various layouts in my mind, and for a while, it actually seemed possible.  I was imagining that I had my old energy and motivation from the past.  I was enjoying my mental planning and feelings of enthusiasm, so I kept thinking, then I looked at the clock and it was 4am, I almost didn't care, but decided it was probably better to get some sleep.

 

The next day I was back to 'normal', and didn't even have the strength or confidence to go and buy the lawnmower.    That was yesterday.

 

I know I'm dealing with some issues of deep loss at the moment.  Trying to let go of the past. Trying to detach from a life which was never the real me, but scared to look at what remains...... nothing.

 

In one way, it seems like a blessing, I get to start again, with a clean slate.  I can build and define my life based on the 'real' me, but its like I'm finding myself the butt of some cosmic joke.  Everything I thought I was has been falling away and now, I'm faced with the impossible task of building a life for someone who doesn't actually exist, I don't seem to want anything apart from peace and I can get that in any moment when I manage to let go and stop struggling.

 

I almost took a Xanax again, a little while ago.  I woke up and saw the time, it was 11am.  I never sleep that late, it was a shock, like as it I had overslept and missed an important appointment or something.  But then I was immediately slammed with the opposite reality, that I had absolutely nothing I had to do today.  But even worse, there is nothing I want to do either.  Lots of little voices telling me what I 'should' be doing.....

 

In a state of near panic, I went outside, out the back, where I have no back fence and no privacy at all from 2 sets of neighbors.  One of my neighbors is just home from a 5 week hospital stay.  Apparently, she is unmedicated bi-polar and had attacked my other neighbor, and they had got her arrested. She has a habit of walking around the neighborhood and into people's houses.  Now that I have no back fence, she could very easily walk across and into our house.

 

I didn't want to know all that 'information', but whenever I have to deal with my back neighbors regarding the fence, I get told all the latest news and gossip, which I would rather not know.  I can't wait until the new fence is up.

 

I didn't stay out the back very long, just quickly watered the few plants I have left and came back inside.  Since my neighbor cut down all his trees, my little garden no longer gets any shade and is dying.  I feel bad when plants die, its like another little part of me is dying.  I'm doing the best I can to save some of them..... or are they just symbols of parts of me?

 

I wasn't planning on writing this much today, just wanted to say that I'm still here.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Hi Petu,

 

I am glad to see you!

 

Before I logged on I was just wandering around the board, just looking and not reading all of the posts. Last couple of days, first thing I did was look for your postings. I know what it's like, reading about the struggles of others (there are much more of them than positive notes!). I'd get down in the dumps and see the world as such a bleak place and this just fueled my worries (not only do I worry about myself but I worry about others.....) I'd have to make myself stop reading. Couldn't even make any supportive comments (and still really can't as I find myself roiled up inside).

 

You and I joined this board within a week of each other earlier this year. We have completely different histories as far as life and medications go but but we are the same, right? We are both human and we want the same things: love, meaning, peace, comfort, safety, a feeling of belonging, to do the right thing, to matter. I do not know if I matter to you (and it's ok if I don't, you telling me that I do is not the same as me really feeling it) but you matter to me. Maybe for no deeper reason having to do with you reaching out some time ago and commenting in my thread.

 

A few months ago, I could not have imagined I would be where I am now. And I am not anywhere different, really. Same old house, same hot weather, same work (but different people), same same same. But minutely different even from yesterday. Everything up and then down, hopeful then pessimistic. That you are now feeling down instead of anxious makes perfect sense when I look at it: the pendulum swings both directions, never one way then back to the middle.  But it gradually comes to rest at some point. Funny thing is, the point at which it comes to rest (before it swings again) is not the same place from which it started, really.

 

All of a sudden I was reminded of something I saw, long ago when I lived in San Diego: this display and am reminded of 'the outer mirrors the inner'. And a few other tidbits that I hope I paraphrase correctly: a cell in the body has an average life of 11 months and every 7 years we have a body made up of entirely new cells. A whole new body. We have nothing to do with it, it happens whether we want it to or not. I am starting to grasp the idea that the only thing we have control over is our thoughts. It is hard for me to yank mine out of the sludge they are accustomed to being in, but I am trying. And so are you. We want to be better.

 

Your comment:

 

 

I don't seem to want anything apart from peace and I can get that in any moment when I manage to let go and stop struggling.

 

It is hard for me to believe (but my readings from people who have done 'it' tell me so) that the more we experience the peace in present moment awareness, life changes (and for the better, they promise. How do they know????) I get glimpses of what life can be if I can do this but then I snap back into my 'reality' and panic. Is this all there is going to be? Just like you did when thinking of the gardens.

 

Didn't really mean to get all airy fairy in your thread, I just wanted to know that if anything, you being here has meaning for me. I am working on including all others, especially myself. Not quite there yet...

[Petunia]

 

Didn't really mean to get all airy fairy in your thread, I just wanted to know that if anything, you being here has meaning for me. I am working on including all others, especially myself. Not quite there yet...

 

The fact that you do get 'all airy fairy' is one of the main reasons I feel a connection with you.  Medication withdrawal is only one aspect of this process for me, it seems to have triggered a deeper quest, or in my case, put me back on a path I was on before.

 

I'm plagued with low mood, no energy and general unmotivated, uncreative hopelessness again today, so I'm really struggling to write this at the moment.  My brain just wont cooperate.  So I'm going to stop struggling, maybe later I will write more.

[alex]

 

 

 So I'm going to stop struggling, maybe later I will write more.

 

It's ok Petu; it is ok.

 

We will get to the promised land.

 

Hugs, A.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

 

it seems to have triggered a deeper quest, or in my case, put me back on a path I was on before.

 

And if things had not happened as they did, you would not know of the pitfalls along paths. Your story certainly tempered my rush to 'enlightenment', a state which I truly know nothing about and can only intuit (probably because it really is truly inside of us all). We would have no impetus toward higher states if we do not experience the lower ones. Darn those lower ones!

 

You ever come across nathan gill? He has a website, have no idea how I found it. We come in all flavors....

 

Be well, sweetie. How we can all be healing and healed at the same time is a mystery.

[Petunia]

 

You ever come across nathan gill? He has a website, have no idea how I found it. We come in all flavors....

 

 

 

No, but I have now

 

I checked out his first awareness vid here.  I wasn't drawn to part 2, 3 etc, but found myself very 'aware' of the lovely tweety, chirpy, birdies in the background.

[Petunia]

Yesterday, about 4pm, I spontaneously jumped up from my internet browsing and went for a walk.  I think it was inspired by something I had just read, but anyway, I did it.  Did the short, 5 minute walk around my local park.  Something felt different, it was a subtle difference, there was no background of dread and horror and nothing triggered any waves of negative neuro-emotion.

 

This was the first time since withdrawal hit me, over 18 months ago that walking has not caused any extra unpleasant experience to engulf me.  There was also no overwhelming sense of relief to get home.  It was a pleasant surprise, but of course, I didn't trust it in the slightest.

 

But I just did it again, this time I did the long 20 minute walk around the whole park and it was the same, a lack of background dread and nothing triggered a wave of negativity which previously would have made me hurry to get home.  I was also able to really look at things around me, which I haven't been able to do for a long time.  Not a lot, but briefly, sort of like I was able to connect a little bit again with things outside of myself..... and it was ok, nothing overwhelmed me.

 

I looked down and saw lots of tiny ants swarming around the entrance of their nest and I felt...... nothing!  Previously I would have felt a kind of awful sense of chaos at the uncontrolled way 'nature' manages to take over everything if we don't constantly work to keep it at bay.

 

I saw a little dog, wandering around at the front of its house and I felt something positive, I thought, for few seconds that it looked cute, I got that warm, fuzzy feeling back for a moment or two.

 

The way this withdrawal works is so weird, I never could have believed it if I hadn't been going through it myself.  I am, and I'm still finding it hard to believe.

 

I've had a mild stabbing pain in my chest for most of the day, that's new, I'm surprised its lasted as long as it has, but I expect it will be gone by tomorrow.

 

Thinking about it now, the last few times I've taken a shower, I haven't felt that feeling of dread and vulnerability which has been a constant, that sense that something very bad is about to happen and its too much of a risk to get naked and into the shower, I need to be prepared and alert, can't let my guard down for a moment...... yes, that's what its been like.  Not worth the risk.  Four years ago I would have been perfectly at home on one of those 'clothing optional' beaches, taking full advantage of the choice, but now..... its beyond weird, who am I?

 

Anyway, just wanted to document this little milestone.

 

 

[Barbarannamated]

Petu,

 

I'm glad to learn that you've had some significant positive times! Your descriptions ring so true with me....being out when struck with the need to get home is common for me, but it doesn't seem like agoraphobia. Also, I've had very much difficulty with showering and can't describe it. Not a fear, but it's SO overwhelming. I've not read of anyone having problems with showering until now. Thank you, Petu.

 

It's all indescribably bizarre. I wish you many more positive experiences.

[alex]

Anyway, just wanted to document this little milestone.

 

Cherish this small improvement Petu;

It is a window;they will get better and longer.

Good!

[bubble]

very happy to read about your window! what you write reads as a novel

 

I haven't had this feeling of dread at walking around, going to places for maybe 8 years now. Sometimes when walking in the street, I stop feeling blessed I can do it. (For many years before that I couldn't imagine travelling to a foreign country, or sometimes going to a store for that matter...)

 

I already told you how my aunt made me walk when I was not only extremely unwilling but felt completely unable to do it. But the more I walked following her without the slighest enthusiasm, the more I started gathering piecies of myself along the way. You said, it didn't work for you... I was not walking in a park but in the country: no people around, maybe an occasional peasant and definitely no signs of modern life-only trees and leaves... So in walk I trust!

 

One of my favourite quotes (I will have to check how it is translated into English), by German poet Rainer Maria Rilke: 

I live my life in widening circles

That reach out across the world. I may not ever complete the last one,But I give myself to it. I circle around God, that primordial tower.I have been circling for thousands of years,And I still don't know: am I a falcon,A storm, or a great song? [i, 2

[Petunia]

Thank you Barb, Alex and Bubble, for your recent posts on my thread.

 

It's all indescribably bizarre.

 

..... that's exactly what this is, and I've had another very strange day.  Not to mention that my computer is doing some very bizarre things today too, including shutting programs down randomly, refusing to do various things, and then deciding to do them and random text formatting, which I can't correct, like those italics up there. (which it just fixed all by itself)

 

Late yesterday afternoon I got a sudden urge to cut my front weeds with the grass trimmer.  It may have been triggered by a phone call from the guy who cut the grass a few weeks ago, he was suggesting he come and do it again, looking for business I guess.

 

I was out there about an hour, struggling with my old trimmer which kept stopping, because the line kept snapping.  It was ok though, I didn't feel absolutely awful like I have done in the past when doing things like that.  Then I dragged the four makeshift sprinkler things out from the garage, ready to start the summer watering schedule again.  Then I thought I had better test the bore, seeing as it hadn't been on all winter..... it didn't work.  I tried all kinds of things to get it to start, including opening up the cover and coming face to face with a bunch of spiders and a load of ants attacking a half dead grasshopper, but in the end gave up.  Very frustrating.  Its not very often I manage to have the energy, motivation and confidence all at the same time and attempt to get something done, which needs doing.

 

I still sort of felt proud of myself though and was getting slightly hopeful that things were improving.  Two walks, two days in a row and cutting the weeds, and none of them had filled me with dread and horror.

 

So I was devastated to wake up this morning feeling worse than I have in a long time.

 

Nausea, dizzyness, overwhelming fatigue and the inner shaking was back. The stabbing feeling in my chest had stopped as suddenly as it started after about 36 hours, but this morning, my chest was now feeling like the skin was burning, not badly, but like when the warm water of a shower hits a mild sunburn.

 

In a warped kind of way, I actually 'like' it, when I get physical symptoms like muscle pain, headaches, muscle tremors and random odd sensations, it helps to remind me that this is as much a physical process as a psychological one and that I'm not just 'going crazy'.... losing my mind and need to get out of denial and back into my doctor's office, to beg for forgiveness for ever doubting his conviction that every one of my problems over the last  10 years has been caused by anxiety and......" here, have some more Xanax and do you need another prescription for Lexapro?"

 

This morning I could hardly move I felt so bad.  Started wondering what had 'gone wrong'.  Was this a regular old wave?  Had I overdone it the past few days with two little walks and some weed trimming?  Or was this the recent increase in solar flare activity?  Its been fairly quiet for a few months, but apparently, our sun has just 'woken up' again these last few days with some M class and even a few X class flares.  Even people not in drug withdrawal can be effected by solar activity, according to  the Carlini Institute and a slowly increasing amount of scientific research into the phenomena.

 

I had been woken up by the sounds of my new back fence being completed.  I dragged myself out of bed and looked out a window.  It was one of those bitter sweet moments.  I knew on some level that it was a good thing and that it even looked nice, but I was miserable and despondent at feeling so bad again, I just crawled back to bed and stayed there most of the day feeling sorry for myself.

 

Then suddenly, around 3:30, I turned into another person, or rather, all the symptoms subsided....is that what happened? I can't even figure it out now.  But without much thought, I found myself doing stuff like cleaning up the sand from where the holes for the fence posts had been dug.  Rearranging plants and putting a few in the ground.  Pruning a tree....actually up a ladder.  This wasn't me doing this, my body was on auto-pilot.  There was no real feeling involved, just activity because it seemed to need to be done.  I cut my toe on a rock, but there wasn't even any kind of reaction to that.  I ignored it for a while as I finished doing the thing I was doing, then I casually rinsed the blood and dirt off under the hose, like I was a robot, operating via a program.

 

The day got stranger.  My dad came over to look at the bore and someone was chatting with him, helping him to troubleshoot the problem.... but it wasn't me.  This complete stranger was inhabiting my body and I was outside somewhere, watching, feeling nothing.

 

After all that, I knew I needed a shower, but instead I found myself grabbing my keys and purse and heading out to pay my neighbor for my half of the fence.  Someone, but not me, had decided to go do that and then continue on to the store to buy some stuff, like milk and something to eat because I hadn't eaten all day either.  I think I wanted to take the car, but I had already told my daughter she could take it, she's driving around by herself now, which is both a relief and terrifying in about equal measures.

 

On the way out I bumped into another neighbor and stood chatting with him, but that wasn't me either.  I'm really not doing this very strange experience justice, there's just no words.  From about 3:30 until right now, I was not the person operating my body, not sure if something else was, or if it was just doing things automatically, but I was outside of my body watching.  I don't mean outside looking at myself physically, I mean my awareness was outside, separate from .............. this is impossible.

 

This is what's so unfathomable, the person I was this morning could hardly get out of bed to go to the bathroom, remember how to speak, figure out how to pour milk into a cup or even decide what to put in a cup.  Then suddenly around 3:30, I still can't do anything, but something else takes over and stuff starts getting done and I'm just getting dragged along for the ride.

 

I even came home from doing my walking chores and had a shower.  Well, someone had a shower, she washed the hair too, then made a reasonable dinner.  If I could cry, I would would be crying now, because this is...... well, as Barbara wrote - indescribably bizarre!

Edited May 6, 2015 by Petunia
fixed link

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

What an incredible experience and the way you wrote it I could feel every bit of it!

[Barbarannamated]

Petu,

 

Once again, your words resonate so clearly with me. I'm going to read through your entire thread today. I apologize in advance if I mention something that's been addressed previously.

 

I have the same diurnal pattern with horrible "Groundhog Day" mornings and then become a different (fairly functional) person by late afternoon / early evening. This follows the cortisol pattern but I'm not sure why it is so pronounced in some of us but not others. Perhaps due to longer times on SS/NRIs..? For me, it adds exponentially to the problem of thinking I'm going crazy or imagining my problems because i feel and act relatively normal at night, giving myself and husband the impression that I have "ok" in me and must be faking my distress earlier in day.

 

I am thankful that I don't have many of the overt physical symptoms, but relate to your comment:

 

"In a warped kind of way, I actually 'like' it, when I get physical symptoms like muscle pain, headaches, muscle tremors and random odd sensations, it helps to remind me that this is as much a physical process as a psychological one and that I'm not just 'going crazy'.... "

 

And the computer stuff.. I've had a cyberstalker (someone I know; confirmed) messing with me since withdrawal started. Crazymaking.

 

I hope you are having a decent day. Thank you for your wonderful writings.

[alex]

I still sort of felt proud of myself though and was getting slightly hopeful that things were improving.  Two walks, two days in a row and cutting the weeds, and none of them had filled me with dread and horror.

 

Petu, I remember when doing even the simplest thing triggered the awful dysphoria (anxiety-dread- horror)

It has gotten a lot better.

The slowliness of this horrendous process is an extraordinary challenge, no doubt..

But you are in the right path Petu, doing what you feel you have to do, despite the horrible symptoms.

It is a very good sign that you didn't get the awful feelings two days in a row...it starts like that.

Two steps forward, one step backwards...

 

You are a brave corageous person and you should be proud indeed.

We are getting free from the d*mn drugs, and only a very small number of people can do that!

 

Sending you healing vibes, A.

[Petunia]

One of my favourite quotes (I will have to check how it is translated into English), by German poet Rainer Maria Rilke: 

 

I live my life in widening circles

That reach out across the world. 

I may not ever complete the last one,

But I give myself to it. 

 

I circle around God, that primordial tower.

I have been circling for thousands of years,

And I still don't know: am I a falcon,

A storm, or a great song?

 

…. And now I am called home, still not knowing

But drawn inward in circles

Of diminishing size

Toward that elusive center where hidden,

I exist

 

Here I am, perched at the edge of this core

Gazing inside in awe and horror

There is no ancient tower

There never was a falcon, a storm or a song

Only God, creating itself as life

Through countless forms

Circling through eternity

As this

[bubble]

Dear Petu,

 

thank you for this! I'd actually only memorised the first line and it stuck with me for years. Then I went to look for its English translation and found out what I though was the rest of the poem.

 

But your part complements it so perfectly! Especially now since I'm reading The Power of Now. The book that was on my radar but I never actually made a conscious effort of reading it until last week when I had to make a choice in a second hand book store. I'm so happy I found it and it's not a coincidence it happened at this juncture in my life when the topic of acceptance is becoming very central for me as well as living in the body and need to go home to my inner self and making peace with my demons rather than running away from them.

 

I think about you often and how spring should be in full swing in Australia now as we are in autumn... sending you nice thoughts

[Petunia]

But your part complements it so perfectly! Especially now since I'm reading The Power of Now.

 

Thank you for saying that, but I wouldn't really describe it a being 'my' part.  It was strange how that part got written.  I read your post a second time, maybe the next day, I'm not sure, then suddenly, it was as if there was more which was trying to write itself through me, there was an urgency to to open up word and start typing what was coming into my mind.

 

From what I've heard, that book has changed a lot of lives, I remember when I first read it years ago it had a profound effect on me, I carried it around everywhere for weeks and would refer to it through the day.