☼ Petunia: recovering from 13 years of antidepressant use

[Petunia]

 I'm very reluctant to mention 'bipolar' since it's so closely associated with that psychiatric labelling but there must be some physiological rational for things which are occuring when our brains are attempting to strike a balance. It's like 3 steps forward and then 5 steps back.

 

I've been thinking exactly the same thing.  If I was a psychiatrist I would have diagnosed myself bi-polar and put me on a mood stabilizer.... especially this past week.  I'm so grateful for what I've learned here and for finally having escaped from the frightening clutches of psychiatry.

 

It may take a while yet before my brain and nervous system gets back to its pre-drug state, but I'm happy I'm going to get a second chance at learning how to live my particular life without all the harmful quick fixes and short cuts.

 

About the weather: OH YES! I've been complaining extensively on my post. In my part of the world it should've been winter but until a week ago we had a full spring.

 

It caused major disruption in the animal and plant world (bees woke up and started eating their reserves which means they will soon run out of food and die!

 

 

Bees have been acting strange here too.  One day last week I went to walk out my door and my whole patio was swarming with bees, I just managed to close the door before any came in the house.

 

Caterpillars seem to be confused too, I've noticed lots of them crawling towards the house, trying to get inside.

[Altostrata]

I would not call waves and windows or even mood changes "bipolar," although many doctors will misdiagnose it as such. "Bipolar disorder" is something quite different, and does NOT have an iatrogenic basis. It's a symptom of how psychiatry is corrupted that just about anything can be called "bipolar," and I shudder at the way the term is slung around so casually.

[Petunia]

Since my floaty but productive afternoon on Tuesday, things have gone downhill a bit.... but in a different way.

 

I'm still feeling extremely tired, this is a new kind of tired for me.  I think its a positive thing because up until a few days ago, I haven't been able to nap during the day, too wired and jumpy.  Would cause surges of neuro-emotions and mini panic attacks.  But for the last 3 days, I've actually fallen asleep during the day and slept.  Today was the longest yet, a full hour.  After an hour, I woke suddenly and felt confused with a racing heart, took a few minutes to settle myself down, but I had slept

 

Last night had been difficult, I don't know if it was the tiny piece of chocolate I ate, but I was shaking all night long, sleeping lightly, like a kind of twilight sleep and having disturbing dreams.

 

The sudden pain which appeared in my left knee on Sunday,  got echoed in my right knee two days later, but it was mild by comparison and only lasted about 6 hours.  For a period of about 12 hours, I had sudden pain flair up in the left side of my top jaw.  It ached and was sore to the touch, like a bruise, then it was gone.

 

The physical symptoms don't bother me, I'm just documenting them, when something new arises, I get a little bit scared about what's going on, because its new, but mostly I can take the physical pain type symptoms in my stride.

 

The most disturbing thing in the last few days was what happened yesterday afternoon.  My mum came over for her usual Wednesday afternoon visit, and I was feeling completely exhausted, like a baby when it gets over tired and irritable.  I was doing my best to be calm and sociable, but I just wanted to be alone.  Then my daughter came home and started cooking, loudly in the kitchen which was right next to where we were sitting, then her boyfriend came over and so it got even louder.  I was getting confused and overwhelmed, trying to listen to what my mum was saying, with the noise in the background. I was feeling a whole lot of horrible emotions like anger, rage, resentment and disgust,  I felt so bad it was like I was about to explode, I couldn't wait until everyone left, just so I could be alone again......... I haven't felt that bad in company since I tried to take Prozac for 5 days earlier last year.

 

A little later I went outside to put the sprinklers on to water the grass and the bore broke as I switched it on.  That's the second new pump we have had recently, so now I'm going to have to go through the stress of trying to get that fixed (again), while the grass that was just starting to get green again, dies again.....not that I really care, it was just one more thing on top of a bad afternoon...which was followed by a night of shaking and disturbing dreams.  Earlier in the day I had walked to the store to buy some egg salad, which I really like, but they had run out.

 

But today I have slept, so that's good.  But I'm miserable.  I watch life going on all around me, listening to the details of what everyone else is doing and planning and I try and be happy and interested, but my strength gets thin sometimes because I just don't know how much longer I'm going to be stuck like this for.

 

I have no idea if anything is related to the new vitamins I just started taking 2 days ago, I'm taking such a small amount.  I didn't take the folate this morning.  I have some B12 arriving next week, I'm going to be scared to try that when it arrives.

 

I'm going to stop complaining now, just feeling a bit sorry for myself and this is the only place I can vent which actually makes me feel a bit better..... because you all understand

[bubble]

As always dear Petu, your venting is much appreciated as it describes how a lot of us are feeling.

 

I'm happy about the sleep. This is a big thing!!!

 

Wanted to write to you something for a long time: sometimes you mention how you admire us in withdrawal who are still working (maybe you spell it out or you don't but I somehow feel like not being in formal employmnet adds to your misery or at least that general sense we all have of feeling useless).

 

That's why I phrased it like that: not being in formal employment because oh my!, you are working so much and deliver such great, professional and quality outputs: just look at your posts here-the best support all of us could ever hope to receive, so thorough, you adress all the issues people are struggling with, you study the situation of the person you are advising and gently put things into perspective, knowledgeable, to the point, insightful, compassionate, patient etc. you developed your own brand of supporting where you combine the genral wisdom and best practice with sharing your personal struggles similar to the once a member you are writing to is experiencing, and so on, and so on.

 

In a nutshell, you are doing so much work of exceptional quality on a regular basis! Not to mention that your personal journey and endurance is such a valuable example for all of us

 

lots of love,

 

bubble

[Petunia]

The recovery process is frustrating and dispiriting, because when you have a short period of feeling better, you expect it to gradually continue. This is logical, but it isn't how recovery works. There are a lot of lurches forward and backward. Eventually you'll notice your average level of wellness increases and you're feeling better than you did 6 months ago.

Copied this quote from another thread to remind myself.  Yes, my average level of wellness is better than it was 6 months ago.

[Petunia]

In a nutshell, you are doing so much work of exceptional quality on a regular basis!

 

Thank you so much for writing that Bubble, it helps a lot.  You are right that my feeling of being useless adds to my misery, sometimes I think its responsible for about 80% of my misery, maybe more.

[Altostrata]

Good heavens, hardly useless!!!

[Wolfhound]

Petu, i want to thank you from the deep of my heart, if i have one, dont know these days, for your post in my thread. It means so much to me.

by the way, yesterday evening i had a stone in my head, extreme fatigue and for the first time, joint pain.

And one of the most terrible suicidal mornings.

hope you are feeling better,

best w.

[mammaP]

A huge Mamma hug for the most useful non useless person I know! You are an inspiration here,

always here for others when you are feeling bad yourself. No-one would know the way you are suffering

and I'm glad that you tell us so we can all be here for you like you are for us 

[skybert]

Thank you Petu:)

[Nikki]

Petu you are one of my voices of reason on this site......useless I don't think so

[Petunia]

Thank you everyone for your recent support, I'm not feeling so useless today

 

It did get me thinking though and I realized why I'm so vulnerable to believing that I have no value unless I'm doing something which earns money.

 

It's because of the kind of family I grew up in.  The number one priority and deciding factor behind every decision was based on money.  If it made money, it was good, if it cost money it was bad.  If it didn't do either, didn't make money or cost money, it was basically ignored.

 

There were a few exceptions, my dad would spend considerable amounts of money on things if it enhanced his image, or if he thought it did.  One time we moved house, the bedrooms badly needed decorating, but we lived there like that for quite a few years.  It was only when the time came to sell the house, that we were allowed to choose some colors for our rooms, so that they could be made to look nice so the house would bring a better price.

 

I don't blame my parents for being so obsessed with money, they both came from very poor families and had to struggle to survive, it was ingrained in their personalities, but it was very hard to live in a family like that because I knew that there were other values in life besides money, and I fought hard with my parents, trying to get them to understand, trying to get some support for the things which interested me, but it didn't work.  I was only encouraged and supported to do whatever made money.... which made me miserable, I could never stick with anything unless I felt there was some intrinsic value or meaning in what I was doing..... even if it earned nothing.

 

So, I've ended up spending much of my life, doing things which I've felt are 'right', but unfortunately not earning much of an income in the process.  Even when I have worked in jobs where I've made significant amounts of money, its been the work I was doing which gave me the real reward, I would have worked for free, I often did.  Probably not very practical.

 

But the values I was raised with still tug at me.  I feel like I'm judged negatively by society because what I do doesn't equal a monetary value.  But I'm like, as long as I have a roof, some clothes, some food and the things I need in order to do what I need to do, then I'm happy.

 

To make it worse, I ended up marrying a man who was very much like my father in personality, so those money related values got impressed on me for even longer than necessary.   Its hard to believe I actually did that, marry someone just like my parents.

 

For most of my married life, my main goal was to protect my daughter from the extreme values she was surrounded by, via her father and grandparents, and raise her with a more balanced outlook. That seems to have worked.... she is the most balanced, emotionally stable and happiest person I know.  Her life works on every level.

 

I just wish I could do that for myself.

 

But.... I'm off the drugs now, recovering slowly, seeing reality clearer than I ever have and actually dealing with it.  Considering all the mistakes I've made through my life, its nowhere near as bad as it could have ended up.

 

My sister even reduced her stimulant medication the other day and said she feels better for doing it. 

[moodyblues78]

Your story is very similar to mine. Feeling worthless, oh so familiar. I still suffer from it. I got it from my mom and she got it from her mom. Money is everything etc..

 

You are not worthless. The support I`ve gotten from you lately has been very important to me. And that`s just me.

[bubble]

the same here: poor family, struggling with money badly: if you don't do something that earns you money, you are useless

 

the best we can do is to become aware of that pattern and then gently and slowly start challenging it

 

but if you managed to steer your daugter away from that intergenerational programming, you've achieved an amazing thing

 

when we feel better and more positive we start a positive vicious circle: remembering more positive things (The same works unfortunately for negative thoughts...)

 

but let's enjoy this positive moment

[Petunia]

Your story is very similar to mine. Feeling worthless, oh so familiar.

 

mb78, I'm sorry you grew up in a miserable family too, I think maybe lots of people do, some of us may just be more effected by it because of a more sensitive nature or something, thank you for letting me know I have helped.

 

the same here: poor family, struggling with money badly: if you don't do something that earns you money, you are useless

 

 

It sounds like you had it hard too Bubble, but in a slightly different way than me.  By the time I came along, my parents were actually doing quite well, had worked hard and had built up a successful business.  The problem was, their thinking and way of acting didn't catch up with reality and it confused me.  I got a lot of mixed messages and came to the conclusion that the problem was me.

 

I agree with you about enjoying the positive moments and sometimes they occur at the most unexpected times.

_______________________________________________________

 

I did something kinda stupid yesterday, I took an antihistamine

 

It was ironic the way it happened, I was trying to do something positive for my health, but in my confusion, completely forgot that antihistamines are not much different than SSRIs, and work on some of the same receptors.  Luckily I only took a quarter of a very low dose and it hasn't seemed to have had much of an adverse effect on me.

 

I was having a really, really bad day yesterday.  Woke up feeling awful, more bad than normal, then I got a headache, I think it was a migraine, felt very dizzy all day, brain fog and increased hot flashes. Tried going for a walk, but that made me feel worse. I wasn't up to being very helpful on here, so I decided to try and learn something instead.

 

Not quite sure where I started, but I ended up reading all about histamine intolerance from various sites and was surprised and concerned when I noticed that many of the symptoms and conditions which can result from it have been things which I've had effect me at various times of my life.  Nothing has been consistent though.  I started life with a susceptibility to ear and throat infections.  That went away and then it was years of migraines. They disappeared and next came about 5 years of allergies and sinus problems.  A few years later I got a sudden bout of inflammation in my joints, was hospitalized, put on heavy doses of aspirin and diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis, that went away eventually after a major diet change..... the allergies and hay fever came back, I had always thought I was allergic to cats, dust and pollen, but maybe not.

 

And then there was the anxiety which has been with me my whole life apart from the last 6 months of pregnancy with my daughter, the first 2 weeks of taking Zoloft or any time I took a stimulant ADD med.

 

Anyway, I was learning all about histamine intolerance and then I got to the food lists and it slowly dawned on me that if I was going to test out the hypothesis that I may actually have this, there really isn't much that I'm going to be able to eat, without changing a whole lot about my current shopping, cooking and eating habits.  I'm not up to any major changes right now.  Some of my current favorite foods are high histamine - spinach, avocado, yoghurt, cheese, bananas, berry drinks, nuts, even the cinnamon I sprinkle in my morning oatmeal

 

.... and leftovers, I often make something to last a few days or buy ready made salads which I eat over the course of several days in wraps and sandwiches.

 

Then a thought occurred to me... 'histamine' - 'anti-histamine', I could test it out that way.  If taking an anti-histamine made me feel a whole lot better, then I would have my answer.  I used to have to take them all the time, before the non-drowsy ones were invented, I remember having to take them so I could stop sneezing, but then I would end up sleeping all day, it was very frustrating, but these days there are the non-sedating kind.

 

I had no car yesterday, so I walked with my migraine and dizzy head to the pharmacy and bought the lowest dose, non drowsy antihistamines and came home and took a quarter of one.  I really wasn't feeling well yesterday, I was in like some kind of trance, walking to the store, on a mission, not really having a clue what I was doing.  After I took it, I thought "what have I just done", "what have I just taken", then I realized, I had just taken something which was most likely going to have a strange reaction, I was glad I had only taken a quarter. I hoped I hadn't done something which was going to cause me a whole lot of increased symptoms and set my recovery back.

 

It didn't have a huge effect.  At first I noticed a reduction of tension, I still had my migraine and dizziness, but I didn't care as much. My thinking got even foggier.  About 3 hours after I had taken it, I went into a very negative mood and was full of anger and irritability, it reminded me of how I felt early last year when I tried to take Prozac for 5 days.  That lasted for about 2 hours, then I fell asleep and slept like a log all night.  I woke up about my usual time this morning, but feeling slightly better than I have in the morning for a long time....only slightly better.

 

So that was all rather inconclusive, but so far, I've tried to avoid high histamine foods today and I can't notice any difference yet.  Not sure what I'm going to do now, or what to eat for dinner.  I don't want to be histamine intolerant, its too complicated.

 

Maybe I will do what one site suggested, eat nothing but rice and potatoes for 4 days and see how I feel, but that sounds awful, I don't like potatoes.  I wish I hadn't learned about histamine now    What's that saying about ignorance being bliss, I think that sometimes it might be

 

I don't need life to be any more difficult than it already is at the moment, I think I'm going to pretend that yesterday never happened and not eat any tomatoes, aged cheese or leftover meat...for now anyway.

[bubble]

very interesting as usual

 

i saw histamine being mentioned around quite often but it's just too much information,not to mention an impossible number of things to do with that often contradictory information.

 

Was trying to put my head around difference between folate (good for depressed brain) and folic acid (not so good,if I understood it correctly).then decided that putting spinach my mom grew in her garden into my green leaf salad mix was good for me only to learn now it's full of histamines (which I also might be intolerant to

 

my,my.ignorance sure is bliss not to mention starch was crucified in some other article and GAPS diet is anti-carbo (not sure I got that right either;)

 

maybe moderation and variation is the best?

 

Dear Petu,please have a look at what's happening with wolfhound if u haven't already...

 

Big hug,

bubble

[mammaP]

Oh dear, that sounds like the kind of thing I would do!  

 

I looked at the histamine thing a while ago but it looks too complicated for my poor brain to tackle.

I looked at the methylation thing today and again it's lost me, it felt like I was reading a foreign language 

Potatoes and rice, I could manage that, chips with everything   Or chips with rice, and rice with chips  .

I suppose no sauces or oils would be allowed though, so wouldn't be able to fry the chips  .  Baked or boiled,

what a decision!  

 

I often wipe days from the calender and pretend they never happened, there are plenty more coming to experiment with.

[Petunia]

......then decided that putting spinach my mom grew in her garden into my green leaf salad mix was good for me only to learn now it's full of histamines (which I also might be intolerant to

 

 

 

... its the spinach I'm most upset about too, had started putting it in everything, it seems like such a healthy food, its green, its leaves, you can't get much better than that

 

 Or chips with rice, and rice with chips  .

 

 

mammaP, this made me laugh.  I hadn't thought about chips.  The UK does love its chips.

 

 

My little mistake with the anti-histamine does seem to have bitten me in the 'you know what'.  I had a restless night last night, kept waking up all night, was wide awake much too early and now, today, my nose is all stuffed up, not like it sometimes is with withdrawal, getting randomly blocked for an hour or two, but its been like this all day so far.... I'm sure its related to the anti-histamine.

 

I'm not complaining though, it could have been worse.

[bubble]

There might be something in it: this summer when I made that very painful and ignorant mistake of discontinuing 2.5 mg Lexapro, I for the first time in my lide experienced a strange sinuses condition which prevented me from breathing (and sleeping) at night for a month. Something in my nostril just got swollen and if I put my head on the pillow, I would suffocate. 

 

I was given anti-histamine spray which was the only way to keep my nostrils open. Had no idea it could be in any way related to the fact that I stopped Lexapro. I thought that I developed hay fever but now see everything in a different light.

 

There must be a correlation between anti-histamines and ADs/our neurotransmiters...

[Meimeiquest]

Petu, first of all, adding my thanks for all you do. You really may have a writing career in your future (but not lucrative, lol).

 

Your health adventures, and my messing with MammaP's head, remind me of my visit to my PCP last week. I was telling him something of all these ideas flying (but at least finally flying slowly) in my head. He said, "You have GOT to focus. We could go fifty directions with all this, but you'll never get anywhere. You've got to manage your blood pressure (which has gone bonkers with benzo tapering), get off these psych meds, and exercise. That is enough for right now." Much easier said than done!

[Petunia]

I want to write a short update on my recent antihistamine mishap, but I'm finding it difficult to think straight, not sure if this is ongoing withdrawal or an effect of the antihistamine.

 

I slept much better last night and the inflammation in my sinuses has reduced, I'm able to breathe properly today, I think that by tomorrow it will be back to normal.

 

But my thinking isn't right, short term memory has completely gone (again), DR is high, but physical symptoms are low now.  I was thinking this was a residual effect of the antihistamine, but maybe not, I was starting to feel like this again on Saturday before I even took it.

 

What Meimei wrote (above) about her doctor telling her to focus, that applies to me right now.  My extreme lack of focus began on Saturday I think......... this just isn't working at the moment, can't keep a string of words in my head for more than a few seconds.

 

.... must press post button

[bubble]

Among other things, I admire how you remain calm under such circumstances: I would be freaking out totally.

 

I'm learning so much from you: But my thinking isn't right, short term memory has completely gone (again), DR is high, but physical symptoms are low now.  

 

These are some of the scariest things for me to experience but not allowing yourself to be flooded by them, keeping however small 'dry' space where you continue to be however shrunk, this is so very empowering.

 

(In the past, this would be more than enough for me to cram my mouth full of drugs out of sheer fear and dread). But now I know I have to tighten mself into a little ball and wait for the storm to blow away...

 

You are teaching me a lot!

[Petunia]

 I admire how you remain calm under such circumstances: I would be freaking out totally.

 

I was freaking out and I am again today.  Suddenly at 3:55am I was awake, my brain slammed into top gear, waves of nausea, emotions and heat surging through me.

 

(In the past, this would be more than enough for me to cram my mouth full of drugs out of sheer fear and dread). But now I know I have to tighten mself into a little ball and wait for the storm to blow away...

 

 

I also would have been heading to the xanax bottle in the past, yesterday and today.  Today, instead I got up and made some warm milk, took it back to bed and drank it slowly, in the dark, laid back down, praying to be able to go back to sleep, but I didn't.

 

That was about 5 hours ago.  In the mean time, my daughter got up and went to work, she has a short shift today.  She's leaving for Japan in a couple of months, she is doing one semester of her degree there.  Part of me is terrified for when she leaves.  When I'm in a window, its ok, but at times like right now..... the thought of being alone is overwhelming.  If I was well and healthy, it would be fine, because I could go out and do things, meet new people, get involved in life.  But there is something horrific about being sick and alone, one thing prevents you from doing anything about the other thing.

 

I think I'm in a multi-day wave.  It started on Saturday, accidentally taking an antihistamine late in the day confused me because I had quite a good day on Sunday, it may have been that I was getting symptom relief from the drug.  Then it wore off, the wave continued, along with some rebound effects from the drug.  As I thought, my nose is fine again today, but the fear, dread, inner trembling, hot/cold, nausea is all back again.

 

The weather is hot this week, these constant weather changes effect me.

 

Bubble, don't admire me too much. When I get like this, if I could take drugs and have them work without adverse effects, I could easily be tempted.  I'm just as desperate for relief as anyone else.  Its just that my nervous system is like a quivering pile of jelly, anything I throw at it just makes it shake even more.  If not right away, then a few hours later and I end up feeling ten times worse.

 

I spent 15 years, slowly poisoning myself with SSRIs and other toxic substances which I took in an attempt to relieve the slowly increasing symptoms of the initial poison. I started and stopped all this stuff like as if I was eating jelly beans.  Then in my ignorance, stopped taking something in 2 months which my body had become completely dependent on for 14 years.  Now, it all seems clearly obvious.

 

I'm still struggling to come to terms with the reality of this.

 

I was highly sensitive to begin with, but not sick.  I didn't have an illness.  But at first it seemed like a miraculous blessing to finally have some validation and an official diagnosis for 'everything' which had made my life difficult up to that point.  But more importantly, there was a cure and it was as simple as taking one little pill every day. I was happy to swallow my diagnosis of GAD along with my little pill if it meant my life was suddenly going to get a whole lot easier...... and it did for about 2 weeks.  Then the depression started to engulf me.

 

Now I understand exactly what was happening, but at the time I didn't have a clue, it didn't occur to me that it had anything to do with the drug I was taking.  I kept swallowing down my life saving medicine and all the while it was slowly killing off the parts of me which made me who I was, my imagination, my creativity, my passion for life, my strong values, my intensity, the very emotions which let me know I was actually alive.... those same emotions which had caused me problems because I had never learned how to handle the intensity of them.

 

Ironically, these medications suppress the traits and qualities we need in order to identify and solve our problems at their cause.  We need our emotions to alert us that something significant is going on.  We need our creativity and imagination so that we can find solutions and benefits for what is happening and we need our energy and passion so that we feel its worthwhile to do something.

 

I hope I get all that back.  At times I can feel some of it trying to come back, but its all mixed up with fear and dread and warped memories and strange perceptions and an endless cycle of exhausting physical symptoms.

 

The other day I was thinking about the comparison of insulin to antidepressants analogy and it finally clicked what was wrong with it.  Insulin is a substance which a healthy body naturally makes.  It is supposed to be present in our body, our body knows what to do with it, it does what it evolved to do in our body and nothing else.

 

But fluoxetine is not a substance found naturally in the human body, its an artificially manufactured chemical which acts as a toxin in the human body.  One of the poisonous effects happens to be that it messes with serotonin receptors, but at the same time its doing a whole lot of other stuff which no one has a clue about.  Its no different than taking a tiny dose of arsenic or lead or mercury every day.

 

I'm still struggling to come to terms with the fact that this is actually being done to us.  We are systematically being poisoned and lied to for profit.  I don't know if the fact that it helps some people maintain their lifestyle, for short periods of time, when life gets difficult, is enough of a justification for large scale, long term poisoning.

 

The guy across the street is having trees cut and mulched again, its not bothering me as much as it did last time, I must be recovering

[lespaul19]

I can relate all to much to that post petu, hit really close to home with me.
A positive sign I see is that your able to write such detailed and well descriptive posts, filled with emotion. This says to me that your emotions and creativity are still within you, just a bit hidden by this withdrawal. I know one day I will read a post from you stating that your fully healed.

[Petunia]

 I know one day I will read a post from you stating that your fully healed.

 

Thanks lespaul for saying that. Today I'm feeling better again, quite early in the morning, so I also have renewed hope in my own recovery.

[alex]

 

 I know one day I will read a post from you stating that your fully healed.

 

Ditto!!

[Petunia]

I ordered some B12 and it arrived a few days ago, but I've been too scared to take any, but after reading the thread about B12 here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1392-vitamin-b12-essential-for-mood-nervous-system/?hl=%2Bvitamin+%2Bb12

 

I decided to try it, so I just took a quarter of a sublingual methylcobalamin 1000mcg, so that would have been 250mcg

 

I'm confused about if I need to take folate with it or not.  I have some folate 800MCG (as metafolin).  I think I took a quarter of one of those once, but then stopped, mainly because I'm just so confused about what to take and what not to take.

 

I've stopped omega 3's again.  After increasing from one to two per day for a few days, I'm sure its making me worse.  At any rate, when I take them, they repeat on me, even the recommended brand.

 

So right now I'm taking a probiotic, 1000mg vitamin c, 200mg Magnesium Citrate twice a day and as of right now, 250mcg of B12

 

If anyone reads this who knows about these things - should I add in some folate or a quarter of the recommended dose of a multi-vitamin which contains folic acid and a whole lot of other stuff, or both.

 

I'm also confused about zinc and iron, after reading, I think I may need more of those.  When I was pregnant, I tested as being low in iron, but I was a vegetarian back then.

 

I bought some Black Cohosh with my last iHerb order, in case the hot/cold flashes and sweating are caused more by menopause rather than general nervous system destabilization, but I haven't taken any because I wouldn't know which supplement was causing what. 

 

I wonder if the hot flashes of menopause are a symptom of nervous system destabilization, triggered by hormonal fluctuations.... or if menopause is something completely different.  If Black Cohosh works for menopause symptoms, maybe it would help with some of the similar symptoms of withdrawal.  That will be an experiment for next month.  The hot/cold fluctuations and sweating have reduced again now, along with the other physical symptoms.

 

Are menopause symptoms supposed to increase and decrease in waves like withdrawal.  My mum used to get hot flashes when she went through menopause, but she's in her 80's now and she said she only gets them very rarely, but when she was put on statins, they got bad again.  She's been off the statins for 2 weeks now and they have stopped again, along with her muscle pain.  I've been trying to get her to listen to me about the dangers of statin drugs for a long time, I think she is finally believing me.

 

I wasn't going write much today, just wanted to do a brief supplement update

[bubble]

very happy to read about the passing of the wave!

 

I'm also very eager to read responses to the questions you mentioned.

 

And I felt bad for seemingly forcing on you the role model role ;( which is the least we need when we are down...

[Petunia]

Its ok Bubble, about the role model thing, no pressure, if anyone puts too much pressure on me its myself

 

I don't want to write in my thread today, I want to be stronger and feeling better and done with all this ridiculous self protective, self involvement.  But writing here helps, so I'm going to.

 

I took another quarter b12 this morning, not because I want to double the dose, but because I want to take it in the morning.  After I took it yesterday, I did notice a slight calming effect, and a positive change in my mood through the night, but that often happens later in the day anyway.  A better test was to take it in the morning.  From what I understand, its not supposed to help instantly anyway.

 

So far, no adverse effects that I can detect.

 

I had an emotional and vivid dream last night.  It was very significant in showing me how much I have changed.  In the dream I was strong, assertive and had very healthy boundaries.  It was like I had gone back in time and relived an experience with a person from my past in the way I should have done.  It was actually a mixture of 2 different events, both of which hadn't gone well, but in the dream, it had turned out better than it did in reality.  I asked for help from someone, like I had done in reality, and actually got it.  This person finally trusted me and did what I asked without question.

 

It was like, because I was able to trust myself and respect myself, other people were now doing the same.  I woke up with a strong feeling of satisfaction.  It was too early to be waking up and I was scared I wouldn't go back to sleep again, but surprisingly I did.

 

But in spite of the positive dream, I'm feeling awful again this morning, but different, its always slightly different, I suppose that's a good thing.  There's a subtle undercurrent of dread and horror just below the surface.  It gets pushed into my awareness so easily.  Its there as soon as I wake up and my first task of the day is to wrestle it back down, far enough so I'm no longer aware of it.

 

Depending on what's going on around me, it gets triggered and pops back up.  Certain thoughts do it, so I try not to think too much.

 

I thought I was going somewhere with this ... but I'm lost, my thoughts trailed off into those old pharmaceutical adverts that JanCarol linked to on her latest post.

 

I need to get up and go for a walk.  But the thought of it is triggering waves of nausea, memories of previous times when I've walked and been overwhelmed with rising symptoms.  But recently its been ok.  But for some reason, my brain is snapping to the older bad memories.  No, not for some reason, its a protective survival system.  We are programmed to remember painful, unpleasant memories so that we don't repeat things which may be harmful to us.  But walking is good for me.  It just felt harmful for a long time because my nervous system was broken.  Neuro-emotions, not real..... lies.

 

Ok, getting dressed, going for a walk now.

[bubble]

great reading you

[alex]

great reading you

 

Ditto!!

[mammaP]

 

great reading you

 

Ditto!!

 

Ditto x 2   Hope you enjoyed your walk Petu. What you are describing is just how I was feeling but had to go out in the car.

The battery was flat and my son jump started it for me and I had to take it for a run. I was so anxious and didn't feel up to it

but had to do it or the battery wouldn't charge.  I did a 20 mile run, sat by the beach and didn't crash, swerve or lose control.

I never have, just fear that I will. I enjoyed it in the end, hope you enjoyed your walk too. 

[Petunia]

I'm not sure if I'm up to writing an update, but I'm going to try.  I'm definitely not able to help anyone else at the moment.  Thanks Bubble and Alex for your support.  MammaP, I'm glad your drive and sit by the beach turned out well in the end.  My walk yesterday didn't go so well.

 

I wasn't overwhelmed with neuro-emotions like I used to be when walking, but for some reason, my thoughts were racing around like crazy, I can't remember what I was thinking about, but it was like I wasn't even aware that I was outside walking.  I was walking a little faster than I usually do, the weather here has now, quite suddenly got cold again, so it was easier to pick up the pace, I thought the slightly increased exercise factor might do me good.

 

At one point in the walk I realized that I was completely in my own head, and attempted to look at the leaves on a tree, that lasted all of 5 seconds.  Something wasn't right yesterday, I was glad to get back home.

 

After my little mistake with the anti-histiamine last weekend, I was slowly getting over the bad reaction and by Wednesday afternoon, although not completely out of that wave, I could tell I was improving again, I went out and did a few non-essential things, for me that's always a sign I'm improving.

 

But on Thursday, I could tell I was starting to go down again........ why?  Yesterday worse and today...... well, this morning has been reminiscent of some of those earliest times, not exactly, because not one moment of this experience is ever exactly like another, but I was completely frozen inside the intensity of what I was experiencing for about 5 hours.  I kept trying to do various things, in disbelief really that this was happening again.  Finally accepting the fact that I've been getting worse (again) for the last 3 days, progressively worse.  Why?

 

Was it the two tiny crumbs of B12 I took?  The CME and solar wind which apparently hit the planet late Friday/today?  A random wave?  It couldn't be a random wave because I had only just started coming up from the last one, it had to be caused by something.

 

Then it hit me. Since Wednesday night, I've been eating spicy Indian food, I've had a little every day, three days in a row.  I bought some on my way home on Wednesday and because no one else was eating it, and I like it, I ended up eating it all myself. 

 

Of course I'm not certain, but that makes the most sense.  Now I'm miserably waiting to recover from Indian food.  Earlier in the week, while driving around I had noticed how much more relaxed I had become about driving again, but yesterday afternoon, I had to drop my daughter off somewhere and drive home by myself and it was like those early withdrawal days when I was terrified, shaking and sweating, certain the car was about to explode or burst into flames, it was such a relief to get home.

 

After being awake for a few hours this morning and realizing I wasn't good for anything, I tried to go back to sleep.  I managed to get into that half awake, half asleep state, but it was full of awful images, swirling around.  I started to sink deeper and felt myself falling towards a huge, dark pit of what looked like bubbling mud.  The phrase "Creature from the black lagoon" floated through my mind and I was jolted awake.

 

No more Indian food for me.  Its back to oatmeal, plain rice, eggs, chicken, bananas, vegetables and salad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rhiannon]

 

 

Ironically, these medications suppress the traits and qualities we need in order to identify and solve our problems at their cause.  We need our emotions to alert us that something significant is going on.  We need our creativity and imagination so that we can find solutions and benefits for what is happening and we need our energy and passion so that we feel its worthwhile to do something.

 

 

Beautifully said. 

 

Also want to comment a couple of other things:  About the diabetic and insulin, absolutely correct.  Diabetes is a real disease; type 1 diabetics simply cannot make insulin, which is something the body needs to survive. It's an unnatural state, and people used to die from it. Insulin just makes it possible for them to live. And you can measure blood sugar.

 

The analogy between that and an artificial petroleum-byproduct chemical that has never occurred in nature, being given to people who have no measurable disease, for a condition that is strictly hypothetical (some kind of "chemical imbalance" that's never actually shown up on tests of any kind)  is completely inappropriate.

 

And another thing: Monosodium glutamate, MSG, is found in a lot of foods from restaurants, especially spicy foods. If it's not MSG, it's some other form of glutamate--that's the part of the "MSG" that does the work of enhancing flavor. It also just so happens to be our most abundant natural excitatory neurotransmitter.

 

 A lot of people have trouble with unbound glutamate. I find that when I'm in withdrawal mode I'm extra sensitive to it.

 

Most fast food, cafeteria food, lots of restaurant food, ethnic foods etc. have some form of it (often in the form of "autolyzed yeast" or "vegetable protein"). You can find out more about that on the Internet if you want, but mainly I'd just say, if you feel like you're sensitive to prepared foods, cut them out and be careful to use only natural herbs and salt for your own seasoning for a while. 

 

There might be a thread or two about this on the forum somewhere...

[Petunia]

I've had a little window open up about half an hour ago so I'm going to write something in my thread while I'm able,  my pattern has changed and windows/waves seem to randomly cycle through the entire day now.

 

Yesterday morning I woke up to a new symptom, heart palpitations.  I've had them before in reaction to something, but not random like they were yesterday.  They lasted about half an hour, were very unpleasant and didn't subside with slow deep breathing.  Thankfully, they didn't return.  Then I actually felt quite a bit better, which is unusual for me for a morning.  But I was hit with a brutal wave of cognitive and emotional symptoms about 2pm, right on cue for when my mum was due to visit.  I had been looking forward to seeing her because it had been about a week, but I had a rough time getting through her visit.

 

She was telling me all the details about her weekend away, her and dad stayed with extended family for 3 days.  Almost everything she said brought waves of horrible emotions rolling through me, I just didn't want to know what they had for dinner and how much my cousin had paid for various things and all the details about the wonderful lives my family are living.  It was reminding me of how much I have lost, but she just kept going on and on and I felt powerless to stop her because I don't have anything to talk about.  It was nice to have some company, but yesterday, it made me feel more alone and isolated than ever.

 

One of my cousins has just been through a painful, but temporary medical situation and the whole family was rallying around, offering support and concern, me too.  But its over now and she is as happy and healthy as she was before.  My long term 'condition' is never mentioned or asked about now, which is better than getting harassed, but its still difficult. 

 

The change in my pattern of symptoms scared me.  I can endure feeling bad every morning and part of the afternoon because I know that eventually I will get some relief, from whatever mix of symptoms I get thrown at me on any particular day.  Its always bad, but towards evening its less bad and then it sometimes gets...... whatever.

 

Seem to be falling out the window again.  I woke up at 3am this morning, couldn't get back to sleep and it was particularly bad, waves of negative emotions and memories rushing through me for hours, then they subsided and I sunk into a kind of hopeless depression, which is where I've been until a little while ago.  I forced myself to get up, have a shower, get something to eat, go check the mail, but its been like..... well...... pointless really, until it wasn't.

 

After reading lexhex's update on taurine in the side effect/ symptoms section, I had to order some,  too many similarities in symptoms and pattern for me to ignore.  So I have my hopes pinned on that now, even though I know better than to believe that anything is going to make much of a difference, I've had my hopes up and then dashed more times than I can remember.

 

I really, really needed this little window today, I was at one of those limits I don't like thinking about.

 

The thing which I can't seem to get used to is the constant subtle changes, nothing stays the same for more than a few days.  Something which amused me and brought a feeling of distraction 2 days ago, now fills me with restless agitation and cynical thoughts.  Its like my brain has to constantly keep moving, going in search of something new to distract it or stimulate it.

 

But I can't find anything new.  With this unlimited internet thing right in front of me, I can't find anything new and interesting to distract me, well nothing which doesn't create surges of anxiety anyway.  But right now, right this second, I'm ok.

 

Earlier today I was reading various blogs written by people struggling with and recovering from 'depression', and I couldn't even relate to them even though today has been a depression kind of day.

 

I thought I had more to write, just seem to be a swirling mass of negativity going on and there's no controlling it, can't find anything else.  There's still a tiny little belief that there is something I can do to fix this.  I've slipped back to that stage where I used to write something and then not want to press the post button because I'm reeling with feelings of shame and self loathing because I shouldn't be so self absorbed and feeling sorry for myself when there are so many people out there worse off than me who just 'get on with it'.

 

If there was something obvious to get on with, that I was capable of doing, I would.  I do.  I had better stop typing because the more I type the worse I'm feeling and the less likely I am to press the post button.  As it is now, I'm going to have to fight with myself to make myself post this.

 

Why?

 

Why don't I want to share this?  If I can dig a bit deeper, I might learn something.  Maybe its just neuro-emotions or perhaps there is something real trying to come up into the light.

 

Its scary for me to be this open because I've learned to reject all the less than perfect parts of myself.  By admitting my uncomfortable feelings, my inability to 'be strong', and my complete hopelessness in the face of this overwhelming situation, I'm sort of reliving my childhood vulnerability.

 

This kind of behavior wasn't acceptable.  It was called 'making a fuss' or 'being silly', or even worse 'being selfish'.  I was a bad person if I became overwhelmed with emotions I couldn't handle and wanted some help and comfort.  I was shut in my room until I learned how to behave properly.  So I guess I absorbed the message that feeling bad equals being bad and bad people don't deserve help, they deserve to be punished for being bad.

 

So as long as I hide the worst of my 'nonsense', (bad feelings) and don't cause anyone any trouble, then I can have human contact as long as we all hide the uncomfortable parts of our humanness.  Yes, I think that might be it.  Still needing to do some work on self acceptance.

 

I thought I had got a lot of this worked out through all the self help books and years of therapy and groups and workshops, but it looks like there is more hidden in some deep places.  Old childhood wounds being dug up by withdrawal.  Something strange just occurred to me. I've had 3 significant relationships in my life and each of my chosen partners have been equally rejecting of me when ever I expressed any strong negative emotion.  Actually, my ex-husband got quite nasty if I ever got too happy also.  I guess that's one of the reasons our marriage lasted as long as it did, with all my pesky emotions blocked out by Zoloft etc I wasn't causing too much of a disturbance.

 

Its looking like I have more of a handle on things now, figuring things out, taking responsibility, calmly analyzing the situation rather than crying and sulking like a two year old .... so I guess its safe to press the post button now

 

 

 

 

[bubble]

I'm so glad you pressed the button.

 

There's so much I can relate with. I noticed this division of you betwen being a strong rock supporting others and being your vulnerable self.

 

I actually think that this forum is great because it allows us to shift between these two roles: being a 'public' person that is in control of her emotions and on the other hand, being an equally vulnerable human being seeking comfort.

 

I began thinking that my eagerness to help others and the need to do so replaces my inability to reach out for myself. So when giving to others I actually do what I need for myself (but don't dare to ask for fear of being rejected, seen as a weakling, been selfish, etc.)

 

If I was your therapist I would now tell you you have taken a very significant step towards your emotional growth by finding enough courage to expose your vulnerability. I often feel like a confused and anxious 4-year old lost in the world of adults (even have a visual image of myself from that time). You date yourself back to 2 When I sulk, it could also be 2, a period before I remember, a period when I gave up sulking because I also didn't receive comfort when I needed it so I stopped looking for it and had to learn how to lick my own wounds (as my boyfriend says since he finds it so frustrating that I shut myself out and withdraw when I'm most hurt although he wants to comfort me). Even when I have comfort, I don't know how to take it. Now I got uncomfortable with receiving comfort  because i have for so many years trained myself to live without it.

 

Just wanted to write a sentence or two I can't allow myself any more 'sick leave at work' and have to start focussing on work. But got inspired.

 

Also wanted to say something I've learnt from you: the fact that windows and waves pattern has changed and they come and go more frequently indicates that your CNS is very busy repairing itself. You always assure people that despite it being so uncomfortable, it is actually a positive sign. Plus you are doing a lot of important emotional growth and facing your life-long traumas that ADs shielded you from.

 

You put this so beautifully that sometimes nothing can make us feel so alone and isolated as being with other people (who don't understand you, are scared and uncomfortable and helpless in the face of your suffering so try to pretend it's not there, etc.) Another reason why I like this forum so much.

 

Accepting ourselves is a recurrent conclusion. I realised that I don't accept myself not only because others found some parts of who I am not desirable and difficult for them to manage but more because I found a lot of my characteristics as negative and wanted to be somoene stronger (even physically), someone a lot less sensitive, someone with a lot more energy, someone decisive. Now I see there is a value in people like me. Even if I'm not physically and emotionally strong, my soft and gentle nature is also important for people. I'm often confused and indecisive but there is a reason for that and I have to respect it.

 

big hug,

bubble